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tart":2513.724,"end":2535.623,"text":"持續推動兩岸觀光旅遊,循序漸進,小三通客運常態化。政府在去年就公布了兩岸觀光旅遊相關規劃,並於去年9月底就做好準備,只要陸方開放入客,旅行社送件申請就可落實。至於國人賦入,政府從未"},{"start":2536.844,"end":2546.234,"text":"限制。那麼有關旅行業組團賦入的部分政府已宣布在6月1號前規劃的團體仍可持續出團。"},{"start":2548.137,"end":2572.239,"text":"令我們在今年4月、8月陸方分別宣布恢復福建居民到馬祖金門旅遊,其後申請到馬祖金門的旅遊採線團、旅遊團體及自由行這些個案,都有我政府主管機關專案審查許可,同時在11月1日起回歸以前的做法,"},{"start":2572.679,"end":2597.947,"text":"由移民署審核,目前運作良好。另外,配合小三通的旅運需求,自今年4月開始,馬祖小三通兩條客運航線恢復至疫情每週14班。九月起,今夏小三通客運航班由每日8班調整到每日10班,目前並啟動加班機制,有效因應旅運需求。三、"},{"start":2599.087,"end":2603.251,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":2620.107,"end":2641.611,"text":"貨品貿易早收優惠並停止執行對台灣的34項濃郁產品免徵進口關稅更揚言研究進一步採取經濟措施對於中共將兩岸互賴的經貿措施作為對台統戰或脅迫的工具政府以積極輔導國內業者轉型升級持續開拓多元外交市場"},{"start":2646.152,"end":2657.476,"text":"降低臺灣產品在中國大陸單一市場的依賴,維護業者及農民的權益。另外,針對陸方片片認定我方貿易措施構成貿易壁壘,並對我採取報復措施。"},{"start":2663.513,"end":2691.902,"text":"政府將持續透過WTO及ECFA既有的協議機制務實溝通解決爭議。四、妥善處理0214金門事件胡姓吊客平安返金。0214金門事件事涉政府公權力本會與海基會、海巡署等單位成立專案小組評估事態發展整合協調相關部門的意見在兩岸既有的溝通管道持續溝通下已於7月30日"},{"start":2692.843,"end":2707.114,"text":"務實推動相關問題妥善解決。同時有關於胡姓吊客因海上泥寒遭陸方長期扣留陸方也在8月7日安全送返胡姓吊客。五、開放兩岸同性伴侶與"},{"start":2708.015,"end":2727.091,"text":"第三地結婚及來台辦理結婚登記。為尊重行政法院判決政府經過整體政策評估後由主管機關內政部發布函示同性伴侶得比照現行兩岸異性與第三地結婚相關規定於9月19日起檢附相關向我們駐外機構驗證結婚"},{"start":2734.357,"end":2761.825,"text":"證書及相關應備文件由相關機關進行面談。經過面談之後,得以回到臺灣來向各該互證機關辦理結婚登記。至於國人與中國大陸人士不是在第三地辦理結婚者,仍然應該依兩條例及相關實務相關的規定來辦理。六、持續關注陸方國安法制,提醒國人留意賦入風險。"},{"start":2763.311,"end":2788.599,"text":"近年陸方陸續修訂相關國安法令並頒布審讀22條意見香港則於今年3月通過實施維護國家安全條例近期政府已陸續接獲多起國人反映負入遭到非法盤問、扣押、留置等案件嚴重威脅國人之人身安全"},{"start":2790.185,"end":2807.67,"text":"經整體評估,我們在6月27日提升副陸港澳旅遊警示為橙色,建議國人避免非必要的副陸港澳旅行。另外,本會也建置了國人副陸港澳動態登陸系統,還有最近也建置了風險諮詢專線,國人可以在出發前"},{"start":2813.388,"end":2836.309,"text":"向該系統登錄相關資訊,以便在有需要的時候得到政府必要的協處。另外,我們也持續辦理學生研習營隊,補助各大學開設試讀中國課程,促進青年學子深入了解整體兩岸情勢及兩岸關係發展,並提醒附入可能的風險以及因應作為建議。七、"},{"start":2837.89,"end":2861.365,"text":"我們持續密註港澳情勢採取應變措施,維護國家安全及利益。鑒於香港持續有涉及國安之拘捕檢控的案例,針對相關的情勢,本會持續收整香港涉國安案件的行為樣態,並公布相關的注意事項實施要點,提醒國人注意風險。"},{"start":2862.465,"end":2879.854,"text":"並完善急難救助協處機制並強化保障公務機密及公務人員安全。二、未來工作的方向。我們持續研判中共對台動向維護台海和平及區域的安全。中共對台政策"},{"start":2880.894,"end":2894.429,"text":"中國大陸內外部的情勢及美中關係發展影響本會將持續掌握美國總統大選後美中關係區域及兩岸情勢的變化評估中共對台策略及動態管控可能風險並積極落實"},{"start":2898.255,"end":2923.335,"text":"賴總統所宣示的和平四大支柱行動方案,強化自我防衛的能力與經濟社會韌性,並與全球民主國家共同發揮嚇阻力量維護台海和平及區域安全。二、關注陸方對台經貿作為,強化兩岸經貿風險管理。我們將持續關懷台商的需求,協助分散風險,強化"},{"start":2925.817,"end":2937.206,"text":"供應鏈的韌性、輔導產業轉型及多元佈局以維護臺灣整體的經濟韌性安全以及永續發展。另外,有關大院決議"},{"start":2938.786,"end":2963.524,"text":"在維護我方安全、增進兩岸和平發展、解除人民主團赴大陸觀光之限制。考陽陸方近年仍然推出各項國安法規及審讀22條,威脅國人赴陸人身安全。政府將持續評估及推動。三、持續推動陸生來台學習、關懷在台陸配及陸港澳人士生活。"},{"start":2964.909,"end":2968.27,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":2987.473,"end":3013.552,"text":"協助陸配融入臺灣社會本會也持續訪視各地弱勢的陸配及與移民組合辦相關的活動關懷偏遠地區陸配的生活宣導政府相關政策以及法規說明此外政府也持續關懷在台的港澳人士積極協助港澳人士在台生活所遭遇的問題以完善相關的照顧與服務"},{"start":3016.016,"end":3022.051,"text":"四、強化兩岸人員往來安全管理措施,營造兩岸健康有序的交流環境。"},{"start":3027.281,"end":3051.354,"text":"我們賴總統有強調兩岸對等尊嚴、健康有序、對話交流的承諾不變政府將持續配合整體及兩岸情勢的發展滾動檢視兩岸交流規範及管理機制循序穩健地調整中國大陸人士入境措施並強化人員安全的管理"},{"start":3051.974,"end":3059.118,"text":"以防範中共對台各領域的統戰、滲透維護國家安全並營造健康有趣的兩岸交流環境。結語"},{"start":3062.016,"end":3088.657,"text":"賴總統已於國慶談話強調四個不變,捍衛國家主權的決心不變,維持臺海和平穩定現狀的努力不變,希望兩岸對等尊嚴、健康有序對話交流的承諾不變,守護臺灣自由民主生活方式的堅持不變,本會要呼籲陸方要正視中華民國客觀存在的事實,認真理解我方所傳達的善意,與臺灣民選合法政府進行對話,務實處理"},{"start":3091.534,"end":3117.796,"text":"兩岸關係透過逐步堆疊善意形成正向循環為兩岸的良性互動創造有利條件與我方共同承擔維護起區域安全及全球和平的國際責任。以上報告敬請各位委員指教。謝謝。那我緊接著就我們陸委會114年度施政報告及收支預算報告案跟各位檢要報告"},{"start":3120.677,"end":3147.17,"text":"在113年度已過期間預算執行情形請大家參閱書面紮要。我這邊僅就114年度預算配合施政計劃編列情形本會依據行政院114年度施政方針及合併的預算額度並因應台海情勢變化及本會"},{"start":3148.41,"end":3164.655,"text":"推動務實穩健的兩岸政策及未來發展需要編訂114年度的施政計劃相關的工作重點以及預算的配置如下我們在114年度預算編列了10億3918萬6千元較本年度113年度的法定預算增列了1億1084千元"},{"start":3174.378,"end":3185.104,"text":"主要是捐贈海基會辦理政府委託業務等經費7521萬5000元及配合113年度條清增列本會人員維持費用1385萬9000元。相關的預算分配如下。一、綜合規劃業務編列了3066萬5000元佔比2.95%。工作的重點因應兩岸情勢的變化及中共對台政策"},{"start":3203.435,"end":3223.124,"text":"結合專業能量擴大與國內外的智庫互動合作,進行兩岸及中國大陸相關議題的研討會、座談、研究等,並辦理相關民調加強與地方政府的互動合作,多面向的收吸情勢資訊及政策建言,作為政府規劃兩岸政策的參考。二、"},{"start":3226.612,"end":3241.12,"text":"經濟業務我們編列了2563萬9千元占比2.47百分比工作的重點為收吸國際中國大陸兩岸經濟情勢變化強化兩岸經貿安全跟風險控管"},{"start":3242.06,"end":3259.314,"text":"演繹跟落實兩岸經貿政策及互動策略,秉持對等尊嚴,推動兩岸經貿健康有序交流,持續與各界溝通諮詢兩岸經貿政策,以完善兩岸經貿管理政策並凝聚社會共識,關懷服務台商,提升台商的聯繫及輔導工作效能。"},{"start":3261.576,"end":3265.618,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3285.327,"end":3299.724,"text":"管理作為妥善相關衍生問題,完備風險管理措施,強化公務人員及特定身份人員賦入管理及兩岸交流規範之宣導,落實兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助等法陣內的協議。"},{"start":3301.986,"end":3322.176,"text":"執行並維護國人權益根據辦理政府緊急服務電話及關懷簡訊之發送,持續宣導國人賦入前使用本會國人賦入港澳動態登錄系統,完善國人賦入人身安全協處機制,提升海基會的服務效能,落實執行政府委託事項。"},{"start":3322.816,"end":3326.699,"text":"在港澳門帳業務部分共編列1億3558萬元佔比13.05%其中捐助撤進費3476萬1千元佔比3.35%"},{"start":3340.1,"end":3360.247,"text":"香港辦事處及澳門辦事處編列8,205,000元佔比7.89。工作重點為密駐港澳情勢發展、健全安全管理機制及交流規範,維持住宿管務的正常運作,維護國家安全及保障民眾權益,關懷照顧在"},{"start":3361.507,"end":3386.174,"text":"臺港澳人士推進臺港澳健康有序交流。在聯絡業務部分編列了3171萬4千元佔比3.05%工作重點為強化兩岸政策溝通說明提高國人附入港澳之人身安全警覺意識反制中共對臺認知作戰及澄清錯假消息並積極運用本會社群平台及多元傳播管道"},{"start":3387.034,"end":3401.683,"text":"提升各界對政府兩岸政策的認同與支持加強國內外媒體聯繫及服務掌握兩岸關係的新聞報導動態及時回應外界關切的兩岸議題並提供正確的政策資訊"},{"start":3403.876,"end":3423.553,"text":"聯繫安排國際訪兵拜會及座談,及時向各國重要訪兵傳達政府兩岸政策訊息,並積極規劃辦理本會海外出訪計畫,加強與國際訪兵駐台使節的互動交流,爭取民主東門,國家由我力量持續就兩岸政策議題,"},{"start":3424.253,"end":3426.696,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3443.547,"end":3461.7,"text":"文教交流良性互動並增進臺灣青少年學生對中國大陸嗜讀能力並深入了解兩岸關係現況及兩岸政策。營造陸生來臺就學友善環境提醒臺灣學生附入就學發展風險運用多元管道促進兩岸資訊對等交流"},{"start":3465.463,"end":3483.658,"text":"傳遞臺灣民主自由價值及社會發展現況,增進兩岸人民相互了解。在一般行政共編列4億8,572萬1千元,佔比46.74%,主要系人事費、基本行政工作維持及治安防護所需要的經費。"},{"start":3484.458,"end":3508.064,"text":"均用以提升行政作業效能。八、第一預備金共編列兩百萬。符合預算法第22條規定編列供業務持續。有關本會114年度稅出稅入的編列情形請大家參閱稅入來源別以及我們後續的付表一、二的部分。結語"},{"start":3509.905,"end":3536.844,"text":"台海和平穩定修觀我們國家的生存發展也是全球安全繁榮不可或缺的要素本會將本於職責以務實穩健及負責任的態度推動兩岸良性互動交流並期待兩岸透過善意堆疊形成正向循環逐步建構兩岸和平穩定關係以上報告敬請各位委員給予指教並鼎力支持謝謝"},{"start":3541.465,"end":3544.306,"text":"謝謝邱主委接下來請海基會吳董事長封刪報告主席各位委員各位女士各位先生有兩個理由我想請求主席同意由本會秘書長來做業務報告第一個理由是羅秘書長比我早五個月"},{"start":3571.789,"end":3576.893,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3600.373,"end":3621.047,"text":"因為按照慣例還有我們這個立法院各委員會我看即便是就任一兩年的主管他們好像也是照著念嘛所以你可以照著他的口頭報告念一下念完就可以那個照紙念對各位所以我們這個"},{"start":3625.086,"end":3633.891,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3658.479,"end":3661.627,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3677.519,"end":3701.841,"text":"主席和各位委員先進,感謝大家的支持。那,奉董事長指示,我簡單口頭報告有關於113年度從1月到現在11月止重點的業務報告。海經衛是受政府委託來執行兩岸相關交流協商服務,來保障人民權益的民間基金會單位。"},{"start":3702.722,"end":3707.304,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3723.571,"end":3749.803,"text":"在今年的第12屆在金門的金夏永渡我個人代表海基會前往出席參加這些活動其他民間團體舉辦兩岸相關活動需要海基會參與出席海基會都全力以赴第二項海基會主要在做服務的部分海基會設有一個24小時的緊急服務專線這24小時緊急服務專線是全年無休"},{"start":3750.723,"end":3777.371,"text":"只要國人到中國大陸碰到任何問題無法解決需要緊急協助的時候都可以打這個緊急專線那在今年度1月到12月我們一共協處了有574案接了大概有電話更多但協處了574案那除此之外目前小三通的業務持續在進行小三通業務進行之後本會特別在今年的7月以及10月"},{"start":3778.462,"end":3779.923,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3800.313,"end":3805.957,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3824.989,"end":3826.61,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3847.6,"end":3850.121,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3865.305,"end":3880.862,"text":"第三項,我們對於大陸的台商子女目前在三所台商學校有5570個台灣的小孩是在三所台商學校念的是台灣的教科書那老師也是台灣派過去的"},{"start":3881.443,"end":3885.084,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3901.67,"end":3903.851,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3919.975,"end":3922.656,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3949.87,"end":3950.531,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3972.313,"end":3974.534,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3992.844,"end":3994.945,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4013.633,"end":4030.299,"text":"分別在桃園、台南等縣市安排他們參訪相關的環境。除了之外,有些台商他不僅想回來台灣,他也想去東南亞其他國家。所以我們在今年首次安排了大陸台商跟亞洲的台商"},{"start":4030.939,"end":4031.139,"text":"文書查證和文書送達業務。"},{"start":4060.765,"end":4087.711,"text":"院政部分在今年113年度一共完成了12萬多件。四、審查司法互助文書送達部分完成了5129件。這是在例行性提供兩岸交流往來中有關於過去簽訂相關協議落實的部分在逐漸的推動。除此之外,海基委受陸委會委託,我們執行有關在中國大陸的配偶駕來台灣,也許是"},{"start":4090.711,"end":4093.833,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4105.982,"end":4107.343,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4122.757,"end":4126.7,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4145.492,"end":4174.407,"text":"最後這個意見參考那最後一下海基位除了辦理有文書驗證以及作為政府重要的這個委託機關之外所以在資訊安全的部分我們也被列為重點的這個項目所以在今年份我們完成了整個海基位異地備援的文書驗證系統以及我們即將建置足夠的內外防火牆防止各種這個駭客入侵的各種作為這是在資訊安全部分強化"},{"start":4174.887,"end":4175.948,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4193.96,"end":4217.326,"text":"今年我們陸委會補助海基會的比例增加是因為在去年度陸委會對海基會的政府補助款比例是有57%但是因為我們考慮海基會執行是兩岸相關業務而且執行政府委託業務所以我們在陸委會的支持之下在114年度預算由政府的補助款比例有57%提高到78%"},{"start":4219.446,"end":4238.196,"text":"所以實際上海基會在114年度的預算今天再送到大院來審查預算我們實際增加幅度是4418萬那4418萬主要用在三個部分第一部分是人事薪資的調整以及勞健保按照法定必須增加的部分這大概佔了2000萬左右"},{"start":4239.837,"end":4267.169,"text":"所以實際增加業務費另外是兩千萬,另外兩千萬用在大陸台商、紫米、我們多整舉辦夏令營、東令營以及探索營那這部分,以及強化在整個兩岸國際情勢沿襲掌握對中國勢獨、中國變化的相關資料上那以上是針對整個海基會有關113年度業務報告與114年度這個預算編列情形向大院做匯報報告,敬請各位指教,謝謝"},{"start":4277.392,"end":4297.557,"text":"其他單位的報告請委員們自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢答委員諮詢前原例做了幾點宣告第一個每位委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記"},{"start":4301.198,"end":4303.64,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4329.819,"end":4337.484,"text":"我請邱主委跟羅文嘉副董事長邱主委、羅副董事長我想請問一下我們現在跟中國我們關係是不讀不回還是已讀不回還是偶爾看新情回"},{"start":4357.801,"end":4374.875,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在跟中國大陸的這個溝通聯繫我們是依照過去已經有的這些溝通聯繫大概分三個部分簡單說就好了那當然在陸委會跟國財辦海基會跟海協會"},{"start":4377.144,"end":4384.188,"text":"我在海基會任職,我想去年我們給對岸3179封信。我想他已讀不回,但有處理。我們陸委會其餘避免誤解誤判,我們認為有價值的資訊還是提供給他們參考。此外,我們兩岸目前正在落實的企業,兩岸企業有26項。"},{"start":4400.979,"end":4426.328,"text":"二十六項工作層級的都有在互動那進一步互動是沒有但是我們現在兩岸的大方向還是依照兩岸協議另外就是兩岸之間有許多的智庫、民間、台商也會傳遞有意義的資料避免兩岸誤解誤判我其實不需要我簡單的我要請教而已我為什麼要問這個問題"},{"start":4428.291,"end":4447.828,"text":"我不知道主委跟副董事長在10月份在中國的廣東有我們台灣的人被扣押然後呢是因為宗教是因為一貫道我不知道我們有沒有接收到這個訊息"},{"start":4449.58,"end":4452.123,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":4466.929,"end":4487.58,"text":"在今年的10月上旬,如果正確日期我們所知道應該差不多10月10號前後,在中國的中山,中山這個地區,那有一處民宅,這個在中國的公安突然進去,然後逮捕了裡頭的一些多少人員,詳細數字我們不知道。"},{"start":4488.2,"end":4490.421,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4507.319,"end":4521.516,"text":"我們知道這個事情是在10月下旬才知道是因為家屬來向海基會陳情希望海基會能夠提供協助我們隨即如同剛才講我們隨即也立即傳真給對岸的海協會"},{"start":4523.137,"end":4526.56,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4552.857,"end":4555.858,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4574.606,"end":4598.901,"text":"這三位的家屬在海基會有過非常深入的討論如何能夠更多的了解他們資訊以及提供協助那目前做到的是提供了律師有關大陸律師協助他們那以上是我們掌握的資料謝謝就中國的法令來講對中間有沒有很明確的確定這個非法集會有可能是被判徒刑的吧"},{"start":4600.592,"end":4602.074,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4609.585,"end":4611.206,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4632.845,"end":4641.89,"text":"這個是中國的他本身的法律規定我為什麼特別請教這個一貫道在台灣大概有200萬的道卿"},{"start":4643.143,"end":4662.75,"text":"那如果中國要對一貫道出手,可能入海關、道青有金書有什麼的話,可能就會被盤查。這個我覺得可能要像我們台灣一貫道的道青要多一點宣傳,不然很多都是有上年紀的人,他們根本不知道。"},{"start":4663.61,"end":4665.551,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4689.69,"end":4690.874,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4696.37,"end":4722.215,"text":"我想委員在講那個...不不你回答我是不是啊就好了我想我們當然是中華民國啊對啊對所以我要說這次這個某個基金會然後有很多中國的學生來啊你有沒有覺得他們的言論有超過了學生的參訪的條件講到了很多政治的層面呢"},{"start":4722.555,"end":4745.393,"text":"是,跟委員報告,這次馬英九基金會的陸生團到臺灣來,也包括有陸團的這些代表,講了這個中國臺北,我想這個傷害了臺灣人民情感,那麼這些矮化臺灣的言論也被大家所無法接受。"},{"start":4747.933,"end":4769.719,"text":"這個已經涉及違反大陸人士來台許可辦法同時馬英九基金會也跟主管機關有一個聲明的內容他也沒有確實來遵守那這個部分我們等他們回去之後我們會邀請相關的主管機關"},{"start":4771.319,"end":4773.861,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4800.819,"end":4802.36,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4830.383,"end":4831.223,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4859.72,"end":4871.308,"text":"主委好請教主委一下我們外配要拿台灣身份證要放棄沿國籍我們陸配拿台灣的身份證要放棄國籍嗎?依照我們兩條例陸配拿台灣的身份證只要放棄對岸的戶籍那當然要申請到我們的身份取得我們的戶籍"},{"start":4886.869,"end":4888.971,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4913.868,"end":4917.629,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4942.574,"end":4969.12,"text":"原住民的委員會主委一定要是原住民代表才可以當主委,還有族群委員也是要原住民的身份才能當主委。這個主委知道嗎?我沒有這個資訊。沒有這個資訊,你不知道。我們客家人的委員會的主委是不是也是要客家人?是嗎?"},{"start":4972.062,"end":4987.086,"text":"一般慣例會請客家人、客家身份來當主委,這樣才直接服務自己族群。所以請教我們陸委會的主委,你是代表哪一個族群?"},{"start":4991.872,"end":5007.186,"text":"我想過去擔任陸委會主委並沒有特定的族群沒有特定的族群因為我不懂所以要問你問清楚因為我們的邏輯就是說哪一個族群就是哪一個代表才直接服務嗎"},{"start":5008.187,"end":5009.829,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5034.929,"end":5059.084,"text":"大陸還有港澳嘛,所以我們的工作人員有沒有就是代表的大陸還是港澳的人員來去協助做協調,有嗎?裡面的工作人員。我們當然作為台灣的公務人員,首先就不能有雙重國籍,一定要放棄中華民國以外的國籍,擔任公職一定是如此的。"},{"start":5060.646,"end":5063.851,"text":"所以我們外配都要去放棄國籍才能當公職人員或者公務人員但是我們陸配你沒有要求放棄國籍但是你說要求一定要放棄國籍才能考公務人員是這樣嗎?"},{"start":5077.362,"end":5078.384,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5092.025,"end":5094.966,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5117.512,"end":5126.911,"text":"那個住所幾幾名公務人員在那一邊因為我們有拍在住在我們的港澳那邊有幾個人"},{"start":5127.951,"end":5132.435,"text":"跟委員報告,我們現在在香港,我們的辦事處,並沒有我們的公務人員在那裡,都是當地的僱員。對,當地僱員有幾人?有42位。42位?對。但是我們看到就是只有兩位是正職,正職人員。那是在澳門辦事處?"},{"start":5151.351,"end":5152.712,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5180.29,"end":5189.096,"text":"款類還有就是編列高額的預算都沒有人還要編列這樣子的預算不是沒有人我們有40幾位僱員在那裡仍然在推動管務的正常運作包括我們的文書驗證那個數量搞不好是全球外管最多其中之一但是我們看到僅有兩位正職其他你說40幾位我們在你們的網站在你們的沒有40幾位當地的僱員"},{"start":5209.71,"end":5224.378,"text":"他們仍然在執行包括核發簽證、護照包括文書驗證、急難救助這些管務仍然在推動當中對,但是我們看到報告裡面沒有所以說你講的我們沒有看到"},{"start":5225.819,"end":5226.8,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5246.242,"end":5259.839,"text":"內容是一樣的就是內容的工作一樣的拍4人但是今年拍了11個人但是呢內容一樣工作量一樣內容一樣所以增加那麼多人是為什麼你是說在港澳還是澳門來出國的人數"},{"start":5268.573,"end":5270.196,"text":"出國的人數工作的內容是一樣的完全沒有變但是人數增加4個人現在增加了就是11個人所以工作內容差異在哪裡人數出國為什麼要增加"},{"start":5283.594,"end":5288.916,"text":"跟委員報告,因為過去在疫情,我們的同仁會去港澳我們住處進行各種業務考核,所以我們有安排這個。對啊,但是是去年啊,今年又沒有疫情,所以你這回答跟這個完全沒有關係。疫情去4個,沒有疫情去11個,這樣子差異在哪裡?"},{"start":5307.122,"end":5308.263,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5335.934,"end":5338.396,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5362.513,"end":5371.742,"text":"至於香港辦的相關的教育展,我們也有同仁去代表參加。對,但是我們看到的就是108、109的沒有,110年沒有,112年也沒有。所以呢,我們出國的情形、考察的情形的結果跟效果在哪裡,都沒有報告。"},{"start":5385.916,"end":5387.097,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5410.453,"end":5411.714,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5433.595,"end":5434.615,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5454.281,"end":5456.163,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5479.882,"end":5481.103,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5497.268,"end":5497.929,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5516.323,"end":5543.801,"text":"沒有增加,但是我們看到的案件減少。但是預算是增加的。麥委員你用的資料可能有點出入。我給你詳細的資料。去年度是暴增,前年度只有5萬5千件。去年度暴增到1萬件。那今年到現在11月還沒結束是8萬3千多件。所以從整個長年的趨勢上來看來,今年是增加的。"},{"start":5544.301,"end":5545.161,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5563.148,"end":5563.688,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5589.316,"end":5600.699,"text":"要有書面要有正確的明顯是改善明顯的是有達到我們要做的業務這樣我們才能接受謝謝接下來請劉許廷委員發言謝謝主席這個邱主委跟羅秘書長有請"},{"start":5616.479,"end":5620.363,"text":"主委、副董事長、副秘書長兩位早安我們今天要討論一下你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的跑位的狀況我先請教羅副董事長"},{"start":5633.755,"end":5637.58,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5649.618,"end":5654.702,"text":"我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。"},{"start":5665.43,"end":5668.112,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5691.411,"end":5700.797,"text":"在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?"},{"start":5703.188,"end":5706.649,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5725.057,"end":5741.489,"text":"就本席的了解按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠"},{"start":5743.11,"end":5745.852,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5762.126,"end":5763.046,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5782.461,"end":5786.763,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5811.541,"end":5833.169,"text":"龍平上有跟我講那其實他總的事前講還是我講事前事前就我講他總的來說他是希望啊希望中國大陸啊能夠務實面對兩岸關係能夠正視中華民國客觀事實存在這才是解決兩岸問題最主要的癥結之所在那也希望能夠良性互動"},{"start":5833.869,"end":5837.112,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5863.372,"end":5878.531,"text":"現在的政府跟社會做更詳細的說明說明為什麼這麼做、怎麼做、如何做這需要。第二個兩岸關係的突破我認為本會受陸委會之委託更積極主動掌握話語權避免掉入一個"},{"start":5879.352,"end":5880.673,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5906.856,"end":5909.159,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5928.539,"end":5929.939,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5944.884,"end":5946.184,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5968.132,"end":5993.915,"text":"羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到很氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我有感受到這個民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講了不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走"},{"start":5994.415,"end":6023.355,"text":"你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。"},{"start":6024.96,"end":6027.082,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6050.39,"end":6062.968,"text":"健康、有序、對等尊嚴不能自我矮化找我們推動交流那目前為止看起來因為不管你講的是什麼基本上對方的回應好像都非常冷淡或者是不愉快你打算用什麼樣的方式來改變這樣的情況"},{"start":6064.46,"end":6068.283,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6091.261,"end":6116.745,"text":"記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員群要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒"},{"start":6117.145,"end":6136.79,"text":"今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人"},{"start":6137.33,"end":6138.13,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6163.479,"end":6167.56,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6191.548,"end":6192.349,"text":"接下來請王美惠委員"},{"start":6228.482,"end":6231.983,"text":"主席、主委、請主委。王維豪。主委、各位。主委,在這裡,我先幫你探討一下所有的解說和政策。因為我們總會,如果要來到台灣,要站在我們的新聞場。"},{"start":6251.001,"end":6254.082,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6281.482,"end":6283.243,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6303.215,"end":6308.62,"text":"對、對、對,這樣就要說清楚了。在這裡本身來說,因為有的人很認真、很努力,也有時候因為他們自己的不公有時候可以做我們政府單位的公職人員,他需要放棄他的國籍嗎?總配喔!總配喔!來,你解釋一下。謝謝委員,給我們這個機會。"},{"start":6334.352,"end":6361.362,"text":"我們陸委會這個兩條例21條你必須要住滿就成為我們的這個取得這個身份10年之後才能登記參選或者是擔任公職公務人員這是它的一個時間的條件但是你如果當選之後你還是要依照我們的國籍法20條的規定要放棄非中華民國"},{"start":6362.944,"end":6363.344,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6386.315,"end":6394.283,"text":"在公職領域的人對國家的謹慎謹略。所以我會去跟他去找公道,找當然保守立委。他是美國終身的教授。他為了要回來台灣擔任立法委員,他如果他終身美國,"},{"start":6410.779,"end":6412.18,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6431.886,"end":6433.827,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6445.816,"end":6450.159,"text":"因為我覺得這是一個問題,有的一年說實在的,如果你要買地、木、鉤,如果要買一個國家的木或鉤,一年算很久了。所以我們要最重要的注意,我是在這裡補充說,我們要聽好清楚,不要斷章取義說,總配要來台灣,要去新聞局,就一定要放棄。"},{"start":6473.934,"end":6477.957,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6503.118,"end":6504.019,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6523.831,"end":6524.812,"text":"大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6541.084,"end":6556.751,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6570.566,"end":6596.877,"text":"你聽起來你的感受是如何?來你回答一下我想陸團來發表對外發表這個說法是非常不當的那我們也會依這個大陸人士來台的許可辦法還有這個馬英九基金會給主管機關的相關書面申請切結的問題其中有一項非常清楚就是說"},{"start":6599.025,"end":6611.959,"text":"不去對外說跟活動無關的政治的言論與宣傳,那這個是不是違反了這個切結的標準?"},{"start":6614.261,"end":6627.045,"text":"我們也會跟所有的主管機關依照行政程序大家來討論來確認這個資訊我們也會做必要的行政作為跟行政處分所以委員這個事情我們也跟相關的邀請單位說明這個對台灣來說是絕大部分的國人沒辦法接受的"},{"start":6641.589,"end":6642.33,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6663.826,"end":6667.99,"text":"因為我覺得他來的時候要尊重你來到什麼地方,他說中國、台北的時候也不好,這是一個禮貌。還有我認為他是正經做過台灣的中華民國總統的時候的基金會,非常不應該是這樣。"},{"start":6687.29,"end":6692.212,"text":"包括基金會的人也必須要遵當你要執行這個專業交流你也要符合你所簽署的書面聲明之外還要符合入客來台的許可辦法這是規範你的所以你對外進行一些非必要的跟活動無關的政治宣傳是不宜的"},{"start":6714.359,"end":6715.88,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6743.161,"end":6745.443,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6770.901,"end":6776.466,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6797.759,"end":6817.17,"text":"邱主委、羅副董事長、密書長馬英九基金會在做什麼?馬英九基金會在做什麼?我來解讀一下蔡英文總統出訪的時候馬英九基金會在安排馬英九前總統去中國參訪對中國來講做國際媒體的平衡報導"},{"start":6826.091,"end":6845.431,"text":"現任總統去美國但是我們有卸任總統來中國參訪製造國際的錯覺馬英九基金會這一次在做什麼馬英九基金會這一次安排了這個交流團他要做什麼原來其實馬龍的球迷很多"},{"start":6847.338,"end":6856.605,"text":"大家也想要看馬龍但是全部的焦點就在馬英九基金會安排我確認一下這是不是安排的齁"},{"start":6858.205,"end":6884.502,"text":"這個學生的發言是不是馬雲酒基金會安排的?主委是根本原報告就我們初步了解他每天都會安排兩位學生對外這個安排那個媒體的聯訪所以基金會有安排每天兩位發言他沒有安排馬龍來講這句話他反而安排了一個比較不重要的人來講這句話但是"},{"start":6885.262,"end":6886.903,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6901.576,"end":6919.275,"text":"除了我們官方單位除了確認一下這個馬英九基金會他有做這個安排之外呢其實我們的學生非常自主的大家也覺醒所以這個交流團馬上被識破其實他就是糖衣毒藥"},{"start":6920.416,"end":6923.138,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6940.009,"end":6942.772,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6959.172,"end":6974.186,"text":"最等尊嚴的不但隱形。我想我們在事後相關主管機關都會收集相關的事證透過既有的這個行政程序再進一步來確認做一定的行政作為請委員放心我們會來"},{"start":6975.447,"end":6978.589,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6998.958,"end":7000.299,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7017.301,"end":7030.456,"text":"我講我們經常跟金門的觀光業者都有互動那我們上個月也在照金門那我們是希望這樣金門大概經過五年的疫情他們因為他們的"},{"start":7032.738,"end":7035.743,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7048.74,"end":7075.053,"text":"突然一個宣布又沒了對不對對 因為中國大陸觀光業基本上是這個政策驅動的你就要配合政策來滿足它政策它不是一般市場驅動的觀光客我所謂市場驅動就是說跟你業者的努力跟消費者的選擇有關但是這個政策驅動完全是你要不要配合中共的政策所以它有風險我要舉一個活生生的例子"},{"start":7075.593,"end":7102.267,"text":"但是他已經很久已經快被淡忘了這在2009年的時候羅文嘉秘書長講過一句話看電影是我們自己的事當時高雄市政府新聞處主辦了一個電影節主辦單位有一個單位他放了一部電影居然踩中了中國的紅線但是我們放電影是我們自己事看電影也是我們自己的事當年高雄市發生什麼事情"},{"start":7103.311,"end":7125.615,"text":"高雄市主辦新聞處的處長被國民黨的議長要求下台。第二個,中國發出什麼事情?中國發出所有中國來台灣的旅行團禁止住在高雄的旅館。這個也是另外一個糖衣毒藥。來,秘書長你記得這件事情嗎?"},{"start":7126.523,"end":7153.116,"text":"謝謝委員提起,我相信確實有這件事情當時應該是納比亞的電影對於中國共產黨來講這部電影是他不能接受的所以他要求即使在管轄之外在中華民國國土領土範圍內在高雄市他也想要干預那當然我們不會被接受我們不會接受那不會接受最後結果就是他停止了所有的這個該次的活動而且"},{"start":7154.028,"end":7177.238,"text":"他禁止那段時間禁止所有的陸客團住宿高雄所以整個高雄的旅宿業當時已經習慣了這些陸客的住宿那就覺得說開始在覺得說那你市政府為什麼要辦這個活動影響我們的生意但是你過了這麼久你再回頭想想看電影是我們自己的事啊為什麼他要管我們看電影"},{"start":7178.078,"end":7178.899,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7199.276,"end":7218.97,"text":"我曾經在內政部來這邊備詢的時候我也提出來包含剛剛其他委員也有講的國籍法的問題那我想請主委我只講一個陸配來台取得身份證放棄戶籍就可以了但是陸配要放棄國籍是有困難的對不對"},{"start":7221.477,"end":7249.591,"text":"我覺得他要努力放棄看看因為中共的國籍法第4條也有一些放棄的事由要去努力放棄要去努力放棄要去努力放棄看看但是沈和全還是在中國有一天如果你中華民國的立法委員聲稱你已經放棄中國國籍但是中國隔天可以宣布你還是中國公民可不可以這樣"},{"start":7251.78,"end":7254.381,"text":"接下來請張志倫委員張志倫委員質詢完我們休息五分鐘讓行政單位用個洗手間"},{"start":7290.538,"end":7293.911,"text":"謝謝主席,各位委員各位官員大家早有請邱主委"},{"start":7301.09,"end":7324.204,"text":"張委員你好好 謝謝邱主委今天是這個陸委會的有關於114年度預算的這個質詢跟今天可能質詢的問題那本席想要先請教我們邱主委於今年陸委會於今年的6月1號發布了這個我們臺灣的旅客到大陸的進團令以及6月27號發布大陸的這個大陸的民眾到"},{"start":7330.228,"end":7343.929,"text":"大陸旅遊的這個陳設警戒那現在我覺得人民現在我要幫所有的這個全台觀光業、旅遊業來請命了這個禁團令到底什麼時候會取消它的要件為何"},{"start":7345.25,"end":7353.278,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7369.613,"end":7382.738,"text":"還沒有真正的對台灣開放團客那他其中一個藉口說我們團客去中國大陸還有限制就是你所謂的禁團令但是我要跟委員報告我們在"},{"start":7385.868,"end":7404.984,"text":"如果中共在520之後沒有對台軍演也沒有懲毒22條的話我們早就沒有所謂的這個所謂的進團令光刻早就過去了特別是我們現在我們現在政策我們是願意跟中國大陸進行這個"},{"start":7408.749,"end":7411.851,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7435.484,"end":7449.376,"text":"到大陸的一些限制。審讀22條。審讀22條。這樣的兩個東西都開放以後才會來正式解除禁團令嗎?不是這個。北京要問你的意見是什麼時候才能解除禁團令的要件為何?我們"},{"start":7450.997,"end":7469.261,"text":"剛剛除了我們追求健康有序的兩岸交流兩岸觀光旅遊交流之後我們還有一個我們對於國人賦入的安全我們最關心的是國人的安全所以安全就是因為審讀22條所以大陸要放棄審讀22條才會開放禁團令嗎?台灣的禁團令嗎?我們在確定它對國人賦入安全有沒有影響特別是審讀22條我跟委員報告"},{"start":7480.323,"end":7482.085,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7509.147,"end":7510.867,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7528.543,"end":7529.564,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7541.81,"end":7560.486,"text":"從3月到10月底有16.9萬人團客出團如果加上11月份的話我相信已經20萬團客到大陸去了所以主委的意思是說現在還有在這個當時6月1號進團令之後的旅遊團因為還沒有出團的目前還有在出團的情況"},{"start":7561.187,"end":7563.149,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7582.824,"end":7584.325,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7608.107,"end":7633.214,"text":"要去討論說未來要如何讓大陸這邊可以開放陸生來台跟委員報告我們一直呼籲中國大陸2020年4月份他們就不讓學位生來那現在來台灣的這個陸生的結構學位生現有學位生越來越少剩下1000多人那麼如果說現在比較多的是研修生大概今年1到10月還有2108位"},{"start":7635.054,"end":7638.797,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7656.329,"end":7683.021,"text":"中國大陸學生來臺灣留學而且我們也接到許多中國大陸的家長他們希望到臺灣留學但是中國大陸他對於他的國人境外就是嚴格管控所以他們還不能來我們也呼籲他應該讓兩岸的年輕人像我們剛剛今天早上討論到兩岸青年交流很重要最主要是學生交流學生交流應該讓他自由自在自主自然的交流其實入生來臺"},{"start":7685.942,"end":7686.503,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7704.165,"end":7706.628,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7727.208,"end":7744.817,"text":"請主委來解釋,登錄的重點是有利於國人遇到緊急事情的時候政府能夠及時聯絡緊急聯絡人提供必要協助是嗎?是,跟委員報告,我們對國人賦入感目前還有風險的情況下,那國人透過這個登錄系統"},{"start":7746.138,"end":7746.818,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7772.683,"end":7801.081,"text":"要求這個民眾來登錄的一個狀況那當時也被人家說這是違反各自竊取的一個問題那我想要請問現在還有這樣的狀況嗎?我們對外的這個宣導啊盡量不要去打擾民眾而且用說理的不要給人家干擾好 謝謝對於各自的部分我們跟所有的國人保證這沒有各自的問題而且我們最近也成立了一個風險的一個諮詢專線有各自的問題也可以跟我們講登錄不順也可以跟我們講"},{"start":7801.641,"end":7823.657,"text":"好那接下來我要請教主委的齁剛剛有提到齁台灣呃台灣國人齁現在去大陸旅遊大概到目前今年為止大概230多萬人有去大陸嗎?一到十月一到十月嘛那我想要請教現在登錄系統齁我們可以看到登錄系統這樣的資料齁我們登錄的資料113年目前登錄的資料只有幾萬人欸"},{"start":7824.938,"end":7847.675,"text":"那是不是這個登錄系統完全沒有發揮它的作用只有幾萬人登錄兩百多萬人去大陸旅遊可是只有不到兩萬人登錄這樣的系統然後要花人民納稅錢這個六七百萬來建設這樣的系統會不會認為有浪費國家預算的問題那我再請教另外一個問題第一個登錄人數比較少那我想要請教就是說"},{"start":7848.456,"end":7873.677,"text":"因為花了人民納稅錢大概六、七百萬因為登錄這個系統而實際緊急處理的人數違和大概多少人?這個我先跟委員回答就是說我們在以今年跟去年的話我們今年登錄的人數已經是去年的14倍我們港澳的部分有6倍是增加很多但是我們國人在評估它的風險"},{"start":7874.958,"end":7877.1,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7895.287,"end":7900.848,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7919.813,"end":7921.954,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7940.385,"end":7942.287,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7958.425,"end":7959.766,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7976.241,"end":7978.562,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8002.208,"end":8004.85,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8027.028,"end":8029.79,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8055.297,"end":8082.45,"text":"復照號碼復照號碼我全部都填了而且這個系統連提供到我們國人要到哪裡附入哪裡的地址也不是必要填寫資訊那這個資訊你要如何去救助需要救助的國人報告委員因為國人不見得希望提供這麼詳細資料那他只要線上系統現在是線上系統他告訴我們是要緊急聯絡人而不是說一定要到大陸的哪一個城市住在哪一個地方"},{"start":8082.87,"end":8107.732,"text":"好,所以本席是拜託這個主委,主委非常辛苦,在你們在做事情的時候,要用人民大稅錢的時候,已經兩年的系統了,結果救助的人是零,而且沒有這個資訊,沒有防呆的人。謝謝委員執政,我們會不斷的把它優化。那到底裡面有多少的錯誤的資訊,所以我跟你講這個答案是零也不意外,因為根本就沒有,這個系統的功能基本上就是零。"},{"start":8108.713,"end":8111.314,"text":"應該是有很多了,謝謝委員,我們再跟委員私下說明。"},{"start":8166.347,"end":8179.527,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8212.317,"end":8236.169,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8238.165,"end":8240.906,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8263.061,"end":8281.436,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人"},{"start":8303.764,"end":8309.793,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財"},{"start":8328.004,"end":8350.89,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8363.479,"end":8365.9,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8411.061,"end":8411.182,"text":"函送財"},{"start":8446.594,"end":8447.604,"text":"審查大陸委員會"},{"start":8492.773,"end":8521.579,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8537.995,"end":8564.238,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政"},{"start":8586.069,"end":8586.649,"text":"現在繼續開會接下來請黃婕委員發言"},{"start":8596.499,"end":8600.129,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請陸委會主委好請邱主委"},{"start":8604.421,"end":8633.68,"text":"黃委員好邱主委好先跟你請教因為大家知道說其實中國最近對於宗教的打壓是越來越嚴重那今天早上也出現一個新聞說有三位來自台灣的一貫道的教徒到中國去那結果被關押了到現在還沒有放出來那我知道說這件事情其實海基會也進入處理了那當然這個細節的處理我們希望說最後都是圓滿的結果但我想要請教的是其實現在還是很多國人"},{"start":8633.82,"end":8640.444,"text":"兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8663.596,"end":8689.012,"text":"包括說今年一到九月國人赴中港澳的人次是331萬人跟去年同期比起來增加了77%去年同期是187萬人也就是說即便你們很努力的想要告訴大家說去中國有非常多的未知的風險不管是他們政治的變化還是這些他們對於各種宗教、文化的打壓但是國人還是"},{"start":8690.373,"end":8716.102,"text":"在無預警的情況下這樣子到中國去旅遊那這個部分我們陸委會還可以做什麼呢我在這邊具體請教建議兩件事情第一個這個國人赴中港澳的動態的登錄系統目前看起來登錄的比例實在是太低了是不是應該要有更強制或者是更明確一點的做法來提高國人去中港澳他們應該都要來先來登錄這樣的系統呢第二個"},{"start":8719.483,"end":8746.501,"text":"是不是可以具體的來要求我們旅遊業者來配合?配合什麼?就是你過海關出境之前你都必須要手上要拿到這個警示的小卡或者是說你在訂飯店、訂機票的當下就會看到這個旅遊警示告訴你說赴中國就是有這些風險啊你去你只是參加宗教活動你參加文化活動、參加學術活動就是有可能隨時被關啊"},{"start":8747.942,"end":8763.069,"text":"這些警示難道不應該讓國人知道嗎?是。我分兩個部分來回答委員的問題。第一個是風險。確實現負入港澳的風險極高。除了中國大陸不斷的出台相當多的國家安全的"},{"start":8763.809,"end":8764.81,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8788.467,"end":8789.788,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8809.161,"end":8813.083,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8838.636,"end":8839.236,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8859.847,"end":8860.588,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8885.371,"end":8889.453,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8912.304,"end":8914.365,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8940.435,"end":8941.597,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8956.476,"end":8958.477,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8986.445,"end":8987.285,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9015.237,"end":9015.858,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9034.179,"end":9036.16,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9058.361,"end":9070.792,"text":"請主委、陸委會真的要強硬起來處理,此例一開,未來就是有如此多的統戰團可能來到台灣繼續做這種矮化我國、喪權入國的行為。是,我們依法依規來處理。謝謝委員,謝謝。好,請蘇巧慧委員。"},{"start":9087.332,"end":9090.435,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們請邱主委。好,請邱主委。主委你好。主委你好。主委,我們常常說民主、法治、自由、人權是我們應該要守護的基本價值。是。你認為這四個價值有沒有先後順序之分?我覺得都很重要。都很重要。我也都很重要。都很重要。有沒有先後順序之分?在你的認知裡面。"},{"start":9115.516,"end":9140.815,"text":"如果我的話因為我是12月10號出生的世界人權日所以我對人權我是放在第一位主委我跟你分享我的看法我認為民主法治自由人權其實是有層次之分的因為如果你沒有民主和法治作為基礎作為一個國家的框架作為我們民主國家的一個基盤那基盤都不穩固了"},{"start":9143.177,"end":9171.064,"text":"何來談人權、自由甚至是多元呢?所以民主跟法治一定是要優先被守護住穩固住作為國家的基盤、國家的框架這才有辦法繼續守護後面的人權、自由甚至是多元價值昨天晚上南韓用了3點8個小時為我們示範了民主法治是多麼困難守護的一件工程所以台灣其實是經歷了"},{"start":9173.084,"end":9196.963,"text":"三十八年這樣戒嚴的時候尤其主委你剛剛也說下個禮拜就是人權紀念日其實也是美麗島事件的紀念日啊台灣的民主是經歷了多少人的犧牲多少家庭的破碎才走到今天這樣子的地方所以我想在任何的國家其實都有親外勢力"},{"start":9197.623,"end":9198.544,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9215.606,"end":9217.288,"text":"所以如果你也同意這樣的論點之後那我們再來看接下來我們今天要討論的馬英九基金會的事件我覺得就很清楚了既然我們應該要守的是民主法治"},{"start":9230.523,"end":9231.923,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9252.65,"end":9263.841,"text":"這樣一個包裝教育文化交流的包裝正在破壞台灣的民主法制可是偏偏有人說台灣是一個有言論自由的空間我們應該要尊重別人講話的自由要尊重他的習慣用語主委我想請你就這一次馬英九基金會所邀請的中國青年團在台灣的土地上說出了"},{"start":9277.634,"end":9278.335,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9296.954,"end":9297.315,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9314.717,"end":9317.34,"text":"我們認為以及他後續的發言都有可能違反他當初所這個切結的相關的書面資料以及也違反我們現有的這個大陸人士來台的許可辦法"},{"start":9331.333,"end":9339.058,"text":"所以按照這個違反我們相關的這個違規違常的事件,我們都會邀請相關單位儘速作出處置,是不是這樣?就是你剛剛回答的七位委員都是這樣講的嘛,對不對?那我就想請問你,第一,你現在說的這個竊結書的效力有沒有包含邀請單位?"},{"start":9353.286,"end":9357.91,"text":"包括邀請單位包括邀請單位我們在這裡明確的做出答覆包括邀請單位除了邀請大陸團之外邀請單位也要遵守也必須遵守邀請單位也不能做出政治的談話相關的談話對不對所以這是第一個即便我們認為他中國台北是他的習慣用語但你邀請單位也不能做出政治談話蕭旭哲談話算不算是政治談話我想也明確談話我們的規範的內容"},{"start":9380.728,"end":9381.889,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9406.107,"end":9407.868,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9429.52,"end":9430.401,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9450.862,"end":9451.282,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9472.533,"end":9481.403,"text":"內政部的聯審會就是我們剛剛講的幾個主管機關一起坐下來我告訴你因為你反映的速度所以他現在說如果我們有違反規定今天不會站在這裡兩岸的用語不同他並沒有發表什麼要統一的言論台灣社會是有包容有雅量的不要跟一個二次的等於身體一笑"},{"start":9491.753,"end":9495.154,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9518.803,"end":9520.404,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9538.641,"end":9553.668,"text":"主委我們還是要請基金會的相關人士跟我們的切結書有明確說不去對外講跟活動無關的政治性言論及宣傳我認為你今天就應該要召開會議了這個事實已經這麼明確了這已經不是盡快兩個字可以處理今天就應該要召集會議如果昨天還是女學生的言論"},{"start":9565.874,"end":9567.535,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9589.025,"end":9595.628,"text":"因為台灣是民主法治的社會回到我剛剛說的第一點我們就是應該要堅守民主法治才有後面的人權自由和多元我想我們講四個堅持就是堅持自由民主的憲政秩序是但是你不能行政效率讓人家看破手腳啊對不對所以我要求你主委你可不可以承諾今天就應該要召開"},{"start":9615.995,"end":9628.925,"text":"我們會先聯繫相關的主管機關,持續收證,然後趕快再召開。不會,我知道行政有行政的作業程序,你的態度呢?你認不認為今天就應該要召開會議?是,我覺得應該要趕快。你會用在這裡承諾,你要用最快速的今天就開始啟動召集會議,這樣的承諾做不到嗎?可以吧?可以吧?我們就往這個方向來處理。"},{"start":9641.294,"end":9649.456,"text":"好 謝謝主委全台灣都在看你怎麼為這件事情這類的事情留下範例未來的中國同胞我們歡迎中國人民啦中國人民我們歡迎他來這裡可以啊 同友的同胞可以啊但你來這裡你要知道台灣是一個主權獨立的國家我們有我們的民主法治制度我們需要立委會要能夠表示這種態度謝謝主委謝謝委員"},{"start":9673.849,"end":9674.449,"text":"徐宇貞委員發言請邱主委"},{"start":9694.301,"end":9719.262,"text":"許文豪邱主委好我想剛剛有幾位民進黨的委員都特別提到這個馬英九基金會邀請陸生來台的這個相關的事件我想當時這位這個陸生團的大學生提到說要向中國臺北隊在世界十二強賽中奪冠表示祝賀並稱希望大陸和臺灣同胞能一起為祖國在棒球領域一起努力"},{"start":9719.922,"end":9720.503,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9737.033,"end":9755.068,"text":"剛馬龍也講過臺灣隊我們都大部分的國人也認為這個我們的棒球是臺灣隊頂多你說到中華臺北那你講到有矮化的這個中國臺北這是中國慣用矮化我們的用詞"},{"start":9756.109,"end":9759.071,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9776.46,"end":9782.983,"text":"基金會安排媒體但媒體要問什麼請問一下基金會會知道嗎就像媒體要問我們平常的問題請問一下陸委會有辦法叫它不要問嗎"},{"start":9788.044,"end":9810.265,"text":"請問媒體會要你這樣子嗎?我跟委員報告,據瞭解基金會每天都有安排。對,我的意思是說媒體要問什麼問題,請問你陸委會可以做到,要求媒體問什麼問題嗎?對,是基金會要切捷,他有跟我們切捷。不是,我的意思是說,如果今天媒體,不管平常對你陸委會的提問,你可以要求他你要問什麼不能問什麼嗎?"},{"start":9812.467,"end":9813.448,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9833.277,"end":9835.759,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9857.854,"end":9873.672,"text":"對一個媒體主動詢問大學生的一個回應他站在他的國家的角度來看這件事情就像我們大學生站在我們國家的角度來看這件事情事實上我不曉得這個陸委會覺得不妥到底不妥在哪裡而且剛剛已經講過了這是媒體"},{"start":9875.894,"end":9876.775,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9901.745,"end":9914.362,"text":"委員是這樣我們對這個團因為他持續要安排媒體採訪我們有跟他告誡有哪些話會引起台灣內部社會的對立所以我剛剛有跟主委一樣就是說"},{"start":9916.465,"end":9917.946,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9937.719,"end":9939.64,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9961.612,"end":9977.683,"text":"兩岸這幾天的交流可以看得出來大家彼此都非常的珍惜這次能夠來台灣交流的機會。包括我們台灣大學生也認為跟陸生交流是非常好的一個經驗。所以說這個部分的話我覺得應該要多多鼓勵而不是當一個粗毛求疵。我覺得該用這樣子的一個粗毛求疵不能拿少數一兩個人的評論"},{"start":9985.087,"end":9985.588,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10002.802,"end":10030.951,"text":"我覺得如果我們真的要堆疊兩岸的聲音希望兩岸能夠和平的交流這個部分我覺得陸委會不可以有既定的立場也不會因為執政黨給的壓力而你們就做出一個不符合真正大家是我們的全民所期待的一個方式如果真的希望兩岸的和諧的話不該說真的一方面要去挑釁人家一方面要說這個人家他們來到台灣的時候我們還用這樣的一個方式"},{"start":10032.455,"end":10057.614,"text":"希望我們主委能夠為兩岸交流能夠多盡一份努力另外再請教一下主委我們最近馬英九基金會邀請的陸生團來台的時候我們可以看到剛剛你也回答到陸生來台的研修生跟學衛生你可以看一下表目前研修生的人數大量的下滑那學衛生其實也是一樣"},{"start":10058.434,"end":10086.525,"text":"那請問一下我看到您剛剛的報告裡面有講說我們要這個增加讓陸生跟台生來台陸生來台的這個研修的一個計畫那教育部現在也在研擬中那請問一下針對陸生來台那目前陸委會跟大陸溝通情況如何跟委員報告我們就我們的政策我們一向歡迎陸生來台就讀不管是學位生還是研修生"},{"start":10087.705,"end":10111.299,"text":"那中國大陸當然從2020年4月就以疫情跟政治的理由就不讓他學衛生來已經四年了所以學衛生的數字一直在下降那現在大概只剩下1000多人反而是研修生比較多既然賴總統已經有講了希望能夠這個大陸的陸生來台就學那請問一下目前你們跟大陸溝通的狀況如何"},{"start":10112.86,"end":10136.516,"text":"我們教育部主管機關有不斷的透過陸聯會跟對岸不斷的去溝通,對岸是還沒有回應,所以最主要的我們還是要呼籲,如果要真正做到剛剛所說的年輕人的交流,最好的就是學生交流,"},{"start":10137.116,"end":10138.137,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10158.576,"end":10177.672,"text":"講一句話就有可能被扣上這樣的大帽子那你說陸生怎麼來談所以我覺得兩岸要真的要堆疊生意我覺得在這方面必須要約束我覺得要約束我們這個執政黨的這些這些不管是委員、小編一直用這樣的一個方式去抹黑我覺得這也不是辦法那另外想請教一下你陸委會有評估過陸生減少對台灣整體教育環境跟地方經濟的衝擊嗎"},{"start":10186.094,"end":10209.216,"text":"因為以我舉例雲林環球科技大學本來有很多陸生來台的可是這幾年因為陸生沒有來台之後這個環球科大現在也已經這個停止招生了很多學校其實都面臨這樣的一個問題那我們既然覺得陸生來台就學可以這個兩岸交流可以讓我們的學生台生陸生都有很好的這樣子的一個溝通的一個管道那為什麼這個部分"},{"start":10210.057,"end":10212.619,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10239.518,"end":10242.879,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10256.244,"end":10258.905,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10281.512,"end":10297.718,"text":"海基會114年度的預算針對協處台商人身安全與兩岸經貿糾紛的費用編列了135萬,跟去年是一樣。針對兩岸人身安全與急難救助相關的業務編列99萬6千,比去年多了40萬。"},{"start":10299.512,"end":10315.888,"text":"我們當然可以接受增加40萬的經費支出但是今年陸委會捐助給海基會補助給海基會的預算增加了7521萬那針對台商、台生的急難救助卻兩邊加起來增加40萬"},{"start":10317.429,"end":10323.473,"text":"而其他的溝通管道幾乎都停滯。是不是反映陸委會跟海基會在經費的配置上出現問題了?跟委員報告我們就我們在中國大陸採商勤勞救助的部分如果因為我們是按照去年的額度我們陸委會補助了120萬加上"},{"start":10336.701,"end":10340.303,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算書案。三、審查大陸委員會函送財中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10355.589,"end":10357.471,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10376.645,"end":10377.988,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10392.776,"end":10393.957,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10410.306,"end":10412.709,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10425.845,"end":10426.785,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財"},{"start":10456.578,"end":10459.822,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10478.183,"end":10479.424,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10496.644,"end":10512.443,"text":"大概要多久的時間才能完成優化?現在就很優化了,而且現在還有專人服務,是,是,我想我們這個馬上可以來注意,所以我覺得這有很大的問題,那剛剛也特別講到吉南救助非常多件,這個加起來這樣應該算是8000多件嗎?"},{"start":10514.825,"end":10515.325,"text":"接下來請黃建斌委員"},{"start":10554.417,"end":10555.098,"text":"邀請邱主委"},{"start":10562.765,"end":10587.347,"text":"黃委員好 主委好 這裡剛剛聽到很多 我想很多衝突都來自於對彼此的不了解那我想事實的 總是事情在不斷的溝通的過程裡面會讓我們更加進那一步所以台灣愛有主心 我相信台灣有很多是大陸學生也很羨慕的制度好 那主委我想先跟你請教 像"},{"start":10588.248,"end":10614.709,"text":"所以我們昨晚經歷了這個首爾驚心動魄6小時我想不只韓國民眾連台灣的民眾都很關注因為區域的情勢是牽一把棟全身那剛好在這個時候我們的總統跟外交部長都不在國內我想請教主委你有沒有及時掌握相關區域的情勢動態跟總統做回報然後以及我們總統有沒有做任何的指示"},{"start":10616.638,"end":10635.509,"text":"跟委員報告我們事情發生我想所有國安團隊都非常密注相關情勢的發展也做好各種應變的準備我覺得我們的國安團隊對各種的危機狀況都有很好的處理"},{"start":10636.73,"end":10659.219,"text":"本席這邊要再提醒因為區域情勢動盪的時候我們政府一定要及時的掌握正確的情資而且要適時的跟人民報告穩定民心的安定接下來本席就要就陸委會海基會的業務報告還有審查預算來請教主委請教主委目前在我們賴清德總統的執政底下"},{"start":10659.719,"end":10685.79,"text":"我們政府的陸委會跟海基會最主要的核心業務還有分工是什麼?請主委簡單的回答。是,我們陸委會就是就兩岸政策上的研議的實施,我們層上起下協調各部會,層上當然我們有行政院還有國安會,乃至於對總統負責,那協調各部會,因為陸委會的人少,我們相關的主管機關,"},{"start":10686.69,"end":10688.312,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10706.15,"end":10725.851,"text":"如果說兩岸情勢可行的話政府還要委託海基會赴中國大陸或是跟中國大陸人士?簡單來說我們陸委會就是針對大陸政策的規劃跟執行嘛那海基會是主要是以半官方就是類似我們民間團體的性質來進行兩岸的交流嘛對不對"},{"start":10727.032,"end":10728.913,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10750.39,"end":10760.217,"text":"我想在114年的預算裡面我們可以看到我們陸委會捐助海基會辦理兩岸仲介事務經費是2億5957萬那我們相較於113年度是1億8435萬增加了7521萬增加幅度高達四成"},{"start":10771.923,"end":10799.686,"text":"那根據海基會的說明吼,我們主要是要把你這個補助是,第一個是補助為了要改善我們的財政,財務的結構。對,政府補助案增加,從57%調到70%,所以實際上海基會的預算是增加4000多萬,不是7000多萬。那另外還有包括我們人事費嘛,然後擴大辦理、台商、子女、夏令營,然後增加大陸政經社會情勢掌握。對,是的。"},{"start":10800.467,"end":10801.528,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10817.188,"end":10841.924,"text":"提醒我們海基會的全名叫做財團法人海峽交流基金會交流的工作絕對是海基會的重中之重但是我們從目前海基會看到的一些作為跟陸委會好像都差不多本席這邊要提出兩點我想要請陸委會跟海基會要負起責任因為作為大陸政策還有兩岸交流的單位"},{"start":10842.825,"end":10844.926,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10867.339,"end":10869.8,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10882.711,"end":10884.392,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10903.402,"end":10904.963,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10928.756,"end":10948.439,"text":"委員提到這兩個是第一個觀光客有關觀光客我們在去年其實我們就已經開放入客來台觀光只要提出申請旅行者提出申請經過我們審查就可以落實但是截至目前為止中國大陸還沒有把觀光客放到台灣來"},{"start":10949.761,"end":10961.738,"text":"雖然我們現在兩岸的交流我們去大陸剛剛委員提到我們已經去了230萬那他才來32萬那個比重是我們去多他來多少我們去7.2他才來1所以已經蠻這個"},{"start":10965.963,"end":10967.984,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10993.917,"end":10994.958,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11023.298,"end":11026.039,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11041.784,"end":11043.705,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11058.889,"end":11060.371,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11076.852,"end":11079.254,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11093.306,"end":11121.347,"text":"作物的成長不會因為兩岸交流停滯而停滯,它會繼續的成長。那農民的生活也要必須前進。這點我真的要拜託注意了。我想最後本席還是要深入提醒我們陸委會跟海基會,我們兩個單位最主要的工作就是要促進兩岸的交流,不管是在產業、經濟任何相關的方面。那我們也明白在現在賴清德總統執政的情況下很多事情,"},{"start":11122.268,"end":11126.132,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11146.232,"end":11155.037,"text":"跟委員報告,總統也宣示對等尊嚴、健康有序的交流對話,承諾不變。我們會來努力。謝謝主委、謝謝委員。好,接下來請賴氏寶委員。謝謝主席及各位先進。"},{"start":11170.342,"end":11184.98,"text":"首先我想請那個海基會的吳董事長跟我們的秘書長好不好,吳董事長坐了一半天,給你點檔一下。好,請吳董事長,羅副董事長兼秘書長。吳董事長"},{"start":11191.049,"end":11218.097,"text":"這個你接董事長其實外界期待了一律過去的經驗經歷了當過國代代表當過監察委員而且是媒體界的大佬什麼風風浪浪沒有見過什麼都見過啊那今天老實講我是很遺憾我沒有辦法接受你接了董事長一個月你說你熟悉度不如羅文嘉"},{"start":11220.02,"end":11233.943,"text":"所以請他來全年代理這個話我不接受的主席太客氣了再接受我不接受洪森漢被任命勞動部長不到一個禮拜今天來了他還可以說我不熟啊我找次長來啊敢不可以這樣董事長你敢不想要兩案我還就對你期待那麼高結果第一跑你讓我失望你要不要對我這個話回應一下"},{"start":11247.527,"end":11273.769,"text":"這個我不曉得我剛才還請求主席啊說由秘書長做業務報告的時候你在不在場我在那裡看電視我講兩個理由我知道你說你比較不熟啊他來了幾個月你現在有回應的嗎好你回應請我說第一個理由啊是因為他比我早5個月到是嗎你就講這個理由第二個理由啊是因為這個海基會章程規定內部的事務由秘書長綜餘"},{"start":11276.226,"end":11276.907,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11302.007,"end":11307.55,"text":"來這裡我們都問大事比如說來來來我們請請請問請問你啊這個送給大陸梅花路有沒有跟你報告事先跟內委員報告有我們事先知情"},{"start":11324.053,"end":11325.334,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11339.994,"end":11357.44,"text":"表面上他最小,因為海基會接受陸委會的委託,陸委會最大。他出過來海基會董事長、陸委會秘書長,結果發現倒過來,輪家最大,輪家的關係踏實了。報告委員我們沒有大小之分,我們只有分工合作而已。我的感覺就有大小啊。"},{"start":11358.78,"end":11360.881,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11378.203,"end":11379.704,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11403.084,"end":11404.426,"text":"開拓新的局我覺得不好事事都交給秘書長可能董事長也要展現出你的一些作為一個月不能講短"},{"start":11416.636,"end":11417.797,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11446.224,"end":11448.165,"text":"五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11474.15,"end":11476.652,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11491.773,"end":11515.536,"text":"幫委員,如果要作出這樣的處分,我們也要來自於我們的相關主管機關,包括教育部,他要提出來。會有這樣的決定嗎?不,我們還是有一定的程序,因為畢竟他還是,我們也沒有馬上來處理,因為他是學生,而且基金會有一些說明,但是我們有鄭重的"},{"start":11516.377,"end":11520.378,"text":"警告他基金有這麼嚴重今天是學生講今天如果是團長講不一樣如果今天團長講我完全支持你的做法今天不是團長欸他是一個小女生來來來我讓你讓你知道一下齁來一個我這裡講啊一個潛意識台配啊兩岸各自表述啊好像九二共識一中各表欸那個那個龍恩家秘書長可以起來喔這個"},{"start":11549.42,"end":11553.201,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11576.738,"end":11578.34,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11591.26,"end":11615.008,"text":"但是所以我們叫全日台北我們就中華台北但是大陸原來也用中華台北但是2017年以後大陸的政府以及媒體全面的把中華台北改成中國台北我方不接受但是他們用語啊這個小女生現在20出頭歲2017年7年前她可能讀過中歐"},{"start":11620.506,"end":11621.667,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11634.428,"end":11635.749,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11653.683,"end":11655.846,"text":"我們政府官員現在在位子上有處長、有署長、有科長打電話來給我們辦公室問我們馬龍的行程在哪裡,他買那個…"},{"start":11666.991,"end":11668.191,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11687.739,"end":11690.943,"text":"他們就是講中國台北所以對他們是這樣講那一個女生這樣講有這麼嚴重嗎今天他不是團長他在團裡面沒有任何的職位他就是one of the participant"},{"start":11703.038,"end":11704.98,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11719.011,"end":11745.645,"text":"所以當然我們對他的所說的話確實已經引發傷害臺灣人民情感了而且我們臺灣內部有很多不同立場發生了很多對立這個都不是我們從事兩岸交流願意看到的那這也相關已經違反了我們許可辦法還有我們基金會自己切結的一些內容所以我們會做行政調查那你們要把他趕走嗎"},{"start":11747.486,"end":11748.427,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11769.381,"end":11770.862,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11797.933,"end":11799.155,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11813.922,"end":11816.684,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11830.712,"end":11833.814,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11859.594,"end":11861.535,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11884.246,"end":11884.987,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11904.119,"end":11907.062,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11922.139,"end":11922.819,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11944.011,"end":11945.452,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11958.379,"end":11961.56,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11988.461,"end":12007.015,"text":"沒有中華民國基本上就沒有我們現在存在的基礎所以這點是我們共同沒有中華民國就沒有九二共識從來沒有真的有九二共識這是被創造出來而且要造成會矮化我們中華民國消失的危險不會會危險啊沒有中華民國就沒有兩岸對話的基礎可以這樣講嗎?諸位可以嗎?"},{"start":12015.814,"end":12034.283,"text":"我想最主要的癥結的問題就在北京當局不肯正視中華民國客觀事實存在所以他要來正視中華民國客觀事實存在這是最根本的問題沒有正視中華民國的存在就沒有兩岸對話交流的基礎可以這樣講嗎"},{"start":12035.564,"end":12035.904,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12055.043,"end":12056.083,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12085.154,"end":12086.115,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12111.134,"end":12116.278,"text":"好,謝謝賴氏保委的質詢,也謝謝我們邱主委,謝謝吳董事長還有龍主長。那接下來我們請徐昭瑋質詢。謝謝主席,本席有請邱主委、吳董事長。邱主委跟吳董事長。"},{"start":12136.058,"end":12163.601,"text":"徐委員好吳董事長因為董事長說政策是他嘛大方向那沒關係秘書長如果要從旁協助本席也不反對好本席首先想請問邱主委是請問昨天深夜南韓尹錫悅總統宣布戒嚴6小時後又很快的解嚴了您知道這個消息嗎"},{"start":12164.541,"end":12166.262,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12187.757,"end":12207.024,"text":"成為破壞自由民主制度的點點點。最後親愛的公民們,我宣布戒嚴是為了保護自由人民免受朝鮮共產主義勢力的威脅,立即剷除掠奪我國人民自由和幸福的無恥清朝反國家勢力等等。"},{"start":12208.064,"end":12224.036,"text":"本席想請教您,這種說法,我相信你們都有看新聞,所以我剛唸只是提示一下,我相信你了解他宣布戒嚴的理由。我想請教這種說法,會不會有一天成為台灣宣布戒嚴的理由?您認為?"},{"start":12225.117,"end":12245.119,"text":"我想不可能因為我們的政府不管是從蔡總統還是從賴總統都堅持自由民主的憲政體制所以您也同樣不會同意這種戒嚴的理由沒錯所以我們要共同宣誓"},{"start":12245.68,"end":12266.193,"text":"台灣民主法制得知不易,所以我們大家要不分黨派一同維護。但是本席在這裡還是要很遺憾的說,昨天發生的當時,您知道嗎?執政黨的Thread上面有一些言論,今天早上又撤下了。您應該知道吧?也就是說我們的鄰居,韓國發生了動盪。"},{"start":12270.589,"end":12272.77,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12295.917,"end":12299.379,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12321.616,"end":12324.517,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12350.413,"end":12378.489,"text":"入委會跟海基會存在的目的按照入委會的這個你的施政你的預算書裡面有講我們入委會的施政目標跟海基會也都有提到要依賴總統的政策理念以對話取代對抗以交流取代圍堵追求兩岸的共存共榮您認同吧這是你們寫的認同或不認同就可以了當然認同"},{"start":12379.93,"end":12389.979,"text":"我們發現陸委會跟海基會實際的作為不是以對話取代對抗,你們是以放話,你們不斷的挑釁對岸,不斷的放話,還有限制人民的講話。"},{"start":12398.346,"end":12425.345,"text":"現在剛剛我看蘇曉慧委員也問您了自由民主人權法制都一樣重要怎麼會掌握權力之後限制人民的言論剛剛很多位委員不管在野黨或執政黨的委員針對大陸青年來台我們台灣現在變成沒有言論自由了我們要用政治的力量用這個政治我們用"},{"start":12426.186,"end":12428.127,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12444.778,"end":12455.806,"text":"我們不要一直的放話我現在就請教你您身為陸委會主委上任以來有沒有跟對岸對話對話不是放話有沒有對話"},{"start":12457.113,"end":12475.907,"text":"我想我們經常在呼籲對岸好那本席想請問你您知道有兩岸熱線電話開通嗎?您知道這件事嗎?那個是在馬英九前總統的時候設立的這個所以從這個民進黨執政以後兩岸的熱線電話就完全丟到垃圾桶裡了是嗎?"},{"start":12482.841,"end":12488.727,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12506.329,"end":12528.217,"text":"我想對岸設置的這個政治的障礙,讓兩岸沒有溝通,我們經常在呼籲對岸。就是對岸設置障礙,我們的對話一定要好好的進行,不要只是放話。因為時間的關係接著,你們說要以交流取代圍堵,交流有官方的交流跟民間的交流。"},{"start":12528.817,"end":12554.648,"text":"那官方的交流我再我看了一下兩個單位的這個報告我們只看到官方交流就列三項今年一整個你來到立法院報告就列三項活動這個實在是太少了實在是太少但是呢本席要說的是我們民間的交流非常的熱絡你應該也知道好民間交流"},{"start":12556.533,"end":12584.211,"text":"既然熱絡,那我們就要詢問我們臺海的這種政治經濟關係在你們主政之下真的是持續緊張那民間既然有社會維持和諧的互動可是我們發現今天也很多委員有質詢不管是宗教、文化、體育、學術的交流你們的門檻越來越嚴格"},{"start":12585.632,"end":12596.148,"text":"你一直強調要以交流取代圍堵為什麼我們優先圍堵這個兩岸的交流呢本席舉幾個例子好不好舉幾個例子你學術研討"},{"start":12598.652,"end":12625.752,"text":"在疫情之前的標準還比現在寬鬆啊,為什麼?就這個回答。是,跟委員報告,有關於學術交流啊,校際之間的都還在進行。你講的是兩岸這個社台機構的交流啦。沒有沒有,我在講學術喔。如果是學術交流的話,各校的學術交流都一直在進行。各種研討會、座談會都在進行。你現在不是在講進行不進行。"},{"start":12626.893,"end":12651.958,"text":"現在民間要進行,結果申請的部分,你們的這個申請的這個審查的越來越嚴格,比疫情之前還嚴格。譬如說現在要求,陸委會要求15類大陸人士,包含宗教、文化、體育、學術來台從事各種專業交流,需要專案申請。"},{"start":12653.305,"end":12655.908,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12672.772,"end":12694.426,"text":"所以從我短短的質詢我們就知道我們陸委會跟海基會我們可以好好的對話不對話就用放話然後兩岸的情勢的緊張是我們官方造成的民間一直要交流然後又被我們自己這裡阻擋"},{"start":12696.087,"end":12723.964,"text":"所以這一塊就讓我們覺得大陸委員會大家知道陸委會是讓您就是陸委會這個單位跟大陸能夠做就像你們上面所寫的你要促進兩岸的和平共榮不是不斷的促進兩岸的這種挑釁或者是對立我們發現我們官方做的是這樣本席要再說明就是就像你看"},{"start":12724.904,"end":12752.736,"text":"假設是像客委會,客委會他是做什麼?他就是要對客家族群能夠建立一個很好的一個互動的關係。請問國會聯絡人做什麼?國會聯絡人就是要來國會,讓行政單位跟國會能夠有很好的互動。如果國會聯絡人老是放話,老是造成這個行政單位跟立法院的對立,這個國會絕對就是不合格嘛。現在陸委會跟海基會就是這樣。"},{"start":12753.68,"end":12755.262,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12771.021,"end":12775.783,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12798.51,"end":12809.08,"text":"我們有阻擾,我們會協助正常健康有序的交流。我剛剛問的你也沒有回答,剩下的時間就請你回答。你審查為什麼比疫情前還要嚴格?你說因為兩岸的局勢,兩岸局勢從過去到現在不都是這樣?"},{"start":12824.785,"end":12850.536,"text":"我要跟委員報告所以你不是贊成民間交流嗎?結果你越來越嚴格阿是比較嚴謹沒有嚴格阿所以阿我跟你講你們都用文字齁全部都用文字然後呢實際的作為真的沒有讓兩岸共榮共存也沒有促進兩岸的和平跟交流本席希望你們能夠具體改善好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":12853.497,"end":12858.499,"text":"謝謝徐召委的質詢,謝謝我們邱主委,謝謝吳董事長,謝謝羅秘書長。接下來我們請吳啟明委員質詢。好,召委,一位同仁,我們聖母關眼,請入委會我們的邱主委。"},{"start":12885,"end":12901.507,"text":"委員好主委好主委針對我們臺灣的觀光業他們的反應現在入客來臺真的人數也是非常的少那本席在這邊的資料包括我們交通部觀光署1至9月觀光營運調查報告"},{"start":12904.488,"end":12905.528,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12919.654,"end":12923.758,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12942.398,"end":12953.729,"text":"以目前的統計今年到9月才28萬5的人次那我們從今年的9月賦中國大陸就205萬那差距是7.2倍這是不是應該對吧"},{"start":12959.951,"end":12988.306,"text":"這個數字一到九月是對的對那這證明說兩岸平等平等的交流還做了不過那因為中國大陸十幾億人口沒有理由說我們到對岸那麼多人那他進來的人數還是相對的少很多那要怎樣做改善呢事實證明現在是入客還沒有放他們的人到台灣來所以入客不來是因為中國大陸不讓他的觀光客"},{"start":12988.666,"end":12990.347,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13014.022,"end":13016.284,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13038.166,"end":13039.046,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13060.373,"end":13061.114,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13079.597,"end":13087.66,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13106.886,"end":13108.987,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13127.717,"end":13144.316,"text":"是,跟委員報告我們在2020年的時候中國大陸就不讓他的學位生到台灣來所以已經四年了所以該畢業都畢業所以他從你剛剛說的有一萬多人現在學位生只剩下一千多人"},{"start":13144.956,"end":13146.637,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13164.65,"end":13192.815,"text":"要讓中國大陸學生他們對外有尋求他們留學的權益因為不少中國大陸的父母親打電話到我們學校來就說他們願意讓小孩來就讀但是就不得其門而入因為他們境外去到台灣來這個就讀學位呢是可能要由政府核准的這個在我們看來是不可思議但是這個就是事實不管是觀光客來台"},{"start":13193.635,"end":13202.457,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13221.062,"end":13248.776,"text":"但是雖然在這種情況我想我們的教育部也不斷地去透過相關的這個對口單位不斷地跟他們講那麼希望有學衛生來就讀那麼我們學校之間有很多交流合作協議那這個也是那個研修生來的原因那所以我們一方面把台灣的這個就是照顧陸生的一些方案做好"},{"start":13249.116,"end":13277.405,"text":"像我們今年年初就落實了這個陸森納入健保而且我們還完成了十項友善陸森的這些做法我們都不斷去對岸的說明我們歡迎陸森來台救族的政策沒有改變我們也希望他趕快來因為陸森來他有個好處看到台灣是一個自由民主國家看到我們這邊的民眾大家的生活條件都是比對岸好"},{"start":13277.921,"end":13302.72,"text":"所以陸生來臺灣對我們臺灣相對都是很正面是非常正面這是我們要加強的好不好是而且陸生來臺那個才是真正的交流像今天一直討論那個訪團的爭議他是因為是刻意的有媒體的所以他不是自由自在自主自然的交流沒有這個市制環境的交流啊真的無法"},{"start":13303.2,"end":13304.521,"text":"接著請丁學忠委員"},{"start":13335.256,"end":13339.773,"text":"感謝主席我請入委會邱主委請邱主委"},{"start":13343.766,"end":13358.341,"text":"主委好。主委好。我每次來這村子,我來坐在這裡,大家都已經替我問候了。我想不知道要怎麼說了,也是要問啦,也是要講一下啦。你也知道說,我們最近這個月,大家比較關心的就是我們馬前總統的基金會邀請到陸森來"},{"start":13367.591,"end":13370.394,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13385.005,"end":13409.13,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們校園的各種的學術交流還有校園之間的私生交流其實蠻多的不僅是馬英九基金會這一團那這一團當然我們從剛開始期待他是能夠帶來兩岸相互尊重健康有序的交流我們跟好多主管機關都一直在協助促成給他"},{"start":13409.85,"end":13412.512,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13440.747,"end":13444.47,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13456.279,"end":13460.323,"text":"有可能說出來我們不高興,但是因為我們是主人的身份,我們要有那種感動,下去交流。我們也希望透過這審議的交流,這很多企業都希望這審議的交流可以持續推動。"},{"start":13475.795,"end":13476.516,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13499.807,"end":13502.63,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13516.806,"end":13520.09,"text":"五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13536.547,"end":13540.009,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13564.481,"end":13564.961,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13583.533,"end":13584.634,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13602.469,"end":13606.851,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13628.76,"end":13630.021,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13651.815,"end":13655.037,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13680.535,"end":13682.515,"text":"請王逸川委員本席宣告我們中午不休息繼續開會"},{"start":13716.604,"end":13742.829,"text":"主席請陸委會邱主委好請邱主委黃委員好主委好我第一次站上執行台歡迎指教很緊張我也很緊張因為今天這個馬英九那一團去到清華大學受到跟台大一樣的待遇現在清華大學有人舉中華民國國旗"},{"start":13744.929,"end":13767.064,"text":"有人舉中華人民共和國的國旗這幾天下來陸委會覺得他們當時有承諾嘛他們當時有說來這裡不談政治來這裡不談不談不談政治他們有一堆承諾照你目前看來站在一個陸委會主委的角度"},{"start":13768.001,"end":13785.608,"text":"目前看來那一條紅線踩過去了沒跟委員報告坦白講我們作為主管機關我們非常遺憾因為我們不希望我們來台交流的團體會引起這個那麼多不同意見的對立"},{"start":13787.389,"end":13789.39,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13813.86,"end":13814.601,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13836.913,"end":13864.682,"text":"除了這次這一團以外之前的有沒有哪一團像這一團這麼誇張的跟委員報告就是我們輔導協助的團非常多那他都有按照我們的一些原則上或是一些建議比如說我們有所謂的三不一低調的規範我想絕大部分的團都有遵守所以你們會看到其實我們兩岸的團很多"},{"start":13865.302,"end":13866.704,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13887.113,"end":13897.638,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13915.666,"end":13927.402,"text":"所有的行程他們的這一個每天原來他們就有一個行程表對不對到哪一個學校跟什麼團體交流跟什麼要叫到目前為止有沒有脫離行程"},{"start":13929.744,"end":13956.472,"text":"就行程而言是沒有了但是我們本來有要求你必須要尊重校園的安寧尊重學生跟老師的正常的生活不要去打攪但是我們看到恐怕不是這樣也有衝突有抗議的而且越來越不安主委你也在大學教書以前"},{"start":13958.151,"end":13966.034,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13989.367,"end":13990.628,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14009.603,"end":14011.664,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14030.816,"end":14031.296,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14048.064,"end":14051.806,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14073.652,"end":14076.374,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14097.043,"end":14099.284,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14123.132,"end":14124.033,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14142.639,"end":14168.3,"text":"主委請教一下海基會的業務因為海基會當初成立的目的是因為兩岸官方沒辦法交流所以成立一個民間機構透過民間方式來做交流所以海基會扮演一個兩岸民間橋樑的工作但是現在海基會大家都知道說功能越來越沒辦法凸顯了這個當然是因為兩岸關係不好這個是有大環境的影響我想在服務交流還是有很多功能"},{"start":14168.76,"end":14170.562,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14185.18,"end":14186.842,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14208.27,"end":14222.399,"text":"跟委員報告我們過去我們有三所臺商子弟學校他們在中國大陸涉及到我們主權意涵的或是比較敏感的他們的教科書都把它刪掉"},{"start":14223.063,"end":14225.984,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14243.032,"end":14244.694,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14260.234,"end":14263.255,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14283.203,"end":14285.584,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14301.932,"end":14304.054,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14324.629,"end":14326.09,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14347.681,"end":14369.34,"text":"海峽基金會本業應該要回歸兩岸民間協商,透過官方無法處理的,海峽基金會要扮演它的功能,這是海峽基金會應該要努力的方向。對陸地家庭、台商、在台陸生以及在中國大陸的台生的服務應該加強。後面還有一些數據,為什麼我們認為你們具體的業務越來越少,譬如說,"},{"start":14376.106,"end":14404.437,"text":"這是馬總統時代那時候當時台商有一些人身安全的事件協處一年大概是200件還有加上其他的一些財產法益事件一年大概可以海基會當時是處理600多件不過現在台商的相關的陳情案件大概就只剩下200件之前是600件現在剩200件我們這邊都有把那個數據列出來就剩下三分之一這其實是你們主要業務可是你們的這個處理的案件數卻一直下滑"},{"start":14406.184,"end":14410.908,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14432.14,"end":14435.601,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14449.565,"end":14451.446,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14479.343,"end":14479.903,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14498.079,"end":14515.158,"text":"還有另外一個數據實際上剛剛秘書長講就是說好像因為兩岸關係不好然後台商也變少但是其實海基會重點工作依然存在你看光是112年海基會緊急服務專線接聽的通數當然不包括不只是台商就1萬633通"},{"start":14517.62,"end":14519.661,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14534.006,"end":14536.768,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14551.698,"end":14575.658,"text":"然後不然就是我們去各國做交流去辦什麼座談會我認為這不是海基會應該要做的那我覺得主事者的觀念很重要你主事者如果認為說我的主要存在目的是要解決兩岸的問題的話你就會朝那個方向但如果主事者的想法是說反正我們現在兩岸關係不好我也沒什麼業務那我就好好的開展我的對外擴展的業務甚至做教育的工作那整個就偏掉了啦"},{"start":14577.08,"end":14598.98,"text":"所以我是希望說海基會包括陸委會還是能夠回到本業,不知道這樣怎麼可以?如果找個時間有機會我再跟業委員再做當面報告。你一定會知道海基會不管在兩岸基本的結構、兩岸協商、交流以及各種服務工作,我們做了努力和準備。找個時間我當面再跟您做報告。好,謝謝。委員我們的本業我們還是最主要的。"},{"start":14599.46,"end":14603.003,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14625.902,"end":14627.963,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14645.041,"end":14656.819,"text":"主委好、董事長好我想很多委員大家都非常的關心就海基會的預算其實我把各個年度從2008年到2025年整個都把它劃出來了"},{"start":14661.377,"end":14684.228,"text":"那裡面不管是就人事費跟人事費以外其他的到了明年已經到了3.54億3.54億的這個金額大概我如果往前看了十幾年唯一大概能夠相比擬的只有2012年3.56億是一直朝向增加"},{"start":14685.6,"end":14707.414,"text":"的狀態問題是納稅人非常的關心我們的海基會預算不斷的膨脹那實際上面到底在做些什麼樣子的事情當然對台商的服務我相信這個業務是持續的那只不過說台商可能"},{"start":14709.095,"end":14718.985,"text":"移開中國這個生產基地也蠻多的所以可不可以簡要的跟大家講一下說這個預算不斷的增加最主要的理由到底是什麼"},{"start":14722.735,"end":14751.191,"text":"有海基會我來做說明可以嗎?可以可以可以那實際上海基會今年增加預算如果會補助的部分增加七千多萬但其中因為是過去其中真正海基會預算增加四千多萬因為他是用來過去我們是自籌現在改由政府補助增加多這第二原因那四千多萬裡頭有兩千萬是人員調薪以及勞退健保相關經費所以實際今年比去年增加是兩千萬"},{"start":14752.071,"end":14757.455,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14776.55,"end":14779.751,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14806.822,"end":14834.295,"text":"中國對台灣也不是很有善在這樣的情況之下要去做兩岸交流的事務非常的辛苦這個我們大家都知道但也不可諱言的在面臨困難的局勢辛苦的局勢的時候人民也在關心在這樣的情況之下為什麼海基會的預算還是會一直增加我剛剛是很善意開放式的給你們回答這樣子的一個問題因為"},{"start":14837.661,"end":14859.183,"text":"這個會牽涉到台灣跟中國彼此之間的關係剛剛秘書長也說了說有在進行很多的協商有在進行很多的交流協商的部分我就比較不清楚了目前在陸委會的立場台灣跟中國的談判應不應該以國跟國的方式來加以進行"},{"start":14861.593,"end":14872.554,"text":"跟委員報告我們認為兩岸關係最主要的癥結就是北京當局不願正視中華民國客觀事實存在這個我理解所以"},{"start":14873.587,"end":14894.745,"text":"所以答案是什麼?所以當年呢,兩岸的定位還沒有...對不起,我沒有多少時間啊,請你不要拖延我的時間啊,請你具體問題來回答。你剛剛說得很好啊,北京當局不願意正視中華民國的存在嘛,說得非常的好。但我的問題是,我們跟中國的談判要不要以國跟國的方式來進行?"},{"start":14897.452,"end":14924.79,"text":"跟委員報告如果這是兩岸都願意的話本來就是應該一國一國的方式至少我們是一個談判的實體要很清楚現在最主要問題他不肯正視我們客觀事實存在這剛說過了嘛我們在質詢備詢的時候基本上不要浪費時間浪費時間沒意義在那邊繞來繞去的直接回答問題有這麼困難嗎來我們繼續往下看"},{"start":14928.473,"end":14949.684,"text":"海基會的白手套功能既然已經減弱,從現在就應該開始縮編。未來兩岸要以國跟國的方式談判,海基會的價值就不存在。贊成雙方在對等談判的情況下廢掉海基會。這個主張主委贊不贊成?以現階段而言,我們認為海基會仍有"},{"start":14950.684,"end":14953.845,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14967.239,"end":14994.915,"text":"解說海基會的預算規模跟原額,踢除養老的肥貓,否則也沒有那麼多事可以做。對這樣的主張不是事實。主委你贊不贊成?我當然不贊成,這不是事實。這不是事實嗎?剛講的這兩段主張,一個上面的主張說的人是陳其邁,下面的那個主張說的人是李俊逸。我一個字都沒改啊!"},{"start":14996.136,"end":15021.523,"text":"這是當初民進黨在野的時候對海基會所提出來的強烈指控跟批評現在民進黨執政了主委說這不是事實那顯然我們國家存在兩個不同的海基會國民黨在執...委員我也待過海基會我們同仁都非常認真負責你請你幫我把話講完好嗎"},{"start":15022.745,"end":15047.085,"text":"我說我們國家存在兩個海基會一個是國民黨時期的海基會因為國民黨時期的海基會我跟主委報告啊上面這些話都不是我講的全部都不是我講的這兩段主張一個是陳其邁講的一個是李俊逸講的所以污衊的人不是我您剛剛說了現在的海基會不一樣"},{"start":15049.175,"end":15077.124,"text":"李俊逸跟陳其邁批評的是國民黨時期的海基會現在民進黨時期的海基會按照主委剛剛的說法不公平絕對不是這樣那顯然我們的海基會氣象已經煥然一新了過去對海基會所存在的批評現在都不存在了我剛剛說我們存在兩個不同的海基會我是順著你的邏輯啊去做這樣的解讀那但是但是"},{"start":15077.984,"end":15101.312,"text":"事實上是不是真的這個樣子我們現在的海基會跟過去的海基會展現了什麼樣子的不同我相信這件事情的評價主委你可以有你的看法海基會董事長跟秘書長都可以有各自的看法但是我相信在台灣這個民主社會當中每一個人都可以有他的看法"},{"start":15101.832,"end":15125.403,"text":"而我們立法委員最重要的事情是什麼就是站在人民的立場幫人民把關預算嘛這個才是我們現在之所以會站在這邊站在這邊不是在吵架啦站在這邊我們為什麼要去理解這件事情我剛剛也很善意的給海基會做說明了嘛若會贊不贊成制定兩岸協議監督條例"},{"start":15128.603,"end":15155.372,"text":"我們有曾經努力過但是最主要是中國大陸並不接受不好意思兩岸協議監督條例是我國的國內法跟中國大陸有什麼關係我想就是我們完成這個也沒辦法恢復兩岸的協商這是兩回事一個是監督機制一個是立法的監督機制立法的監督機制我們中華民國是一個主權獨立的國家"},{"start":15156.621,"end":15180.762,"text":"我們制定這個法律還要中國點頭喔重點是什麼重點是陸委會的立場在哪裡嘛陸委會的立場啊我提醒主委一下您前一任的主委是誰邱太三主委您前一任的主委是邱太三再前一任呢陳明通主委陳明通主委嘛來我跟您交換一下意見"},{"start":15182.403,"end":15210.25,"text":"我2019年我那時候第一次在國會的時候我問陳明通啊說兩岸協議監督條例到底什麼時候要立陳明通那個時候在國會怎麼講的他說現在比較迫切的是政治議題的協議拜託立法院先修兩岸人民關係條例把兩岸人民關係條例裡面的政治性協議的問題先處理完那至於剩下的剩下他拜託說2019年"},{"start":15212.33,"end":15230.838,"text":"北京對台灣主權的恐嚇非常的嚴重兩岸協議監督條例他希望立法院先過兩岸人民關係條例政治性協議的部分其他的部分我們未來繼續推動這是2019年說的話現在已經是2024年了所以我只有個最簡單的問題從陸委會的立場兩岸協議監督條例還要不要定"},{"start":15238.976,"end":15262.004,"text":"報告委員我想過去陳主委要求的是五之三的那個政治性協議那至於一般經濟性事務性的這個監督條例那我們尊重大院的這個審議所以只有尊重大院的審議行政部門沒有立場我們行政部門有既有的相關機制既有的什麼相關機制說來聽聽"},{"start":15264.261,"end":15264.601,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15275.302,"end":15282.665,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15304.552,"end":15324.392,"text":"兩岸人民關係條例五之三這個是政治性的協議當初民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例只有限於政治性的協議嗎?主委,你有沒有看過民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例?有看過嗎?只有政治性的協議嗎?是這樣定義嗎?是嗎?"},{"start":15329.059,"end":15356.821,"text":"那個時候行政院並沒有行政院版的而是立法院的我們委員提出來的啊對啊所以我現在的問題就來了嘛蔡英文也做了承諾賴清德也做了承諾搞了半天什麼搞了半天這個承諾全部都是空話連版本都沒有啊連推動都沒有要推動啊我要講清楚的是什麼兩岸協議內容非常的多啊"},{"start":15357.731,"end":15376.701,"text":"需要在國會裡面好好受到監督受到公民社會好好監督的絕對不是只有政治性的協議嘛絕對不是只有政治性的如果只有政治性的協議的話當初一群人在推兩岸協議監督條例那大家不是都犯傻了嗎"},{"start":15378.195,"end":15389.974,"text":"現在的問題在哪裡?你剛說北京敵視台灣北京不肯承認中華民國存在的事實北京不肯跟我們好好的協商談判這個我都同意啊"},{"start":15391.076,"end":15415.675,"text":"這個我都同意啊但是中華民國作為一個主權獨立的國家我們十年前就知道了兩岸的協議沒有健全的國會監督機制所以公民社會才會要求要訂這個嘛所以蔡英文才會承諾嘛賴清德也才會承諾嘛結果過了十年以後我們陸委會的態度是怎麼樣尊重本院的審議尊重本院的審議"},{"start":15420.382,"end":15436.815,"text":"這個是執政黨應該有的態度嗎?我簡單問你,所以站在陸委會的立場,到底有沒有要推兩岸協議監督條例?我們認為我們現在兩岸人民關係條例相關的機制已有。如果明天社會,不好意思喔,我再說一次喔,當初為什麼會反對?"},{"start":15442.401,"end":15463.819,"text":"你現在的說法跟當初陸委會的主委一模一樣我為什麼說一模一樣當初他們就是說說兩岸人民關係條例裡面已經有政權的機制如果這句話成立的話過去這十年公民社會在要求兩岸協議監督條例是在要求假的喔是在要求假的喔"},{"start":15469.158,"end":15471.66,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15493.579,"end":15496.642,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15516.553,"end":15543.382,"text":"就是臺灣民眾黨黨團啊但我要問的是什麼一位蔡英文一位賴清德跟臺灣社會做了承諾具體的行動在哪裡我沒有看到具體的行動在哪裡好那請主委是不是可以提出這個後續的報告在一個禮拜內好不好提到那個內政委員會"},{"start":15547.944,"end":15549.665,"text":"主席有請主委請邱主委主委好我想請教一下南韓總統尹錫悅宣布戒嚴你覺得他這麼做是為了守護自由的憲政體制嗎?"},{"start":15575.68,"end":15604.716,"text":"跟委員報告因為這不是陸委會的執掌因為昨天的訊息也太快雖然我們一直在關注你做一個政府部門的首長你認同這種用解嚴的方式來去實現他自己個人的政治的想法嗎如果以我個人的話我們是站在自由民主的憲政體制不能隨意變更非常好嘛所以坦白講你覺得這種做法叫守護自由憲政體制不是吧是在破壞自由憲政體制吧"},{"start":15605.396,"end":15610.677,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15634.551,"end":15636.712,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15652.216,"end":15675.907,"text":"所以他在跟所謂的解嚴離開戒嚴時代有很大的關聯但我今天看起來我覺得民進黨的朋友對解嚴還蠻喜歡的所以竟然會去附和南韓的所謂的總統的戒嚴對戒嚴還蠻喜歡的那我跟你講我們就從幾件事情來看我等一下就教一下我們的主委你覺得任何的兩岸交流都是統戰嗎?"},{"start":15678.168,"end":15702.426,"text":"跟委員報告,雖然在大量的交流裡面,當然不排除有統戰,乃至於滲透。任何的交流都是統戰嗎?沒有沒有,不是這樣。謝謝你嘛。就是說當然不排除啦。不排除跟任何當然是有差別,程度的差別。好啦,我問到我要的答案啦。謝謝你答點沈博洋啊。這句話沈博洋講的啊。"},{"start":15703.584,"end":15725.779,"text":"我告訴你但是我跟你講今天齁我還是要幫沈博邦講一句話我覺得沈博邦其實講的也不能說完全不對因為現在的陸委會跟海基會我就覺得你們基本上剛剛像黃國昌講的我覺得是在妨礙交流維作你們主業的感覺至少兩岸的交流在民進黨執政是越來越倒退沒錯吧這一點你總不能否認吧"},{"start":15727.061,"end":15732.842,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15754.551,"end":15755.931,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15776.092,"end":15803.044,"text":"我也不知道為什麼今天覺得馬龍可愛就等於中共統戰成功他另外一個我再問你齁你覺得今天馬龍來台齁是不是就等於會混淆中共齁他存在血洗台灣流島不留人的企圖啊第一個啊中共是不是要血洗台灣流島不留人齁再討論啦馬龍來台跟中共血洗台灣流島不留人到底有什麼關聯我的邏輯不好請你開示一下"},{"start":15804.932,"end":15827.271,"text":"我想我們當初同意馬英九基金會推動這個交流是從很正向的角度去看但是現在出現了傷害臺灣人民情感的一些言論我們也是表達遺憾所以你們準的我先跟你講一件事情"},{"start":15828.132,"end":15830.014,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15843.148,"end":15864.814,"text":"那我就跟你講我剛剛要談你陸委會的預算跟海基會的預算照你的邏輯標準你竟然不能遇見我們沈伯陽大師的預言來這邊會造成留島不留人血洗台灣來這邊害得中共統戰成功來這邊兩岸的交流就是統戰你陸委會造成不讓陸委統戰部啊多可怕"},{"start":15866.713,"end":15894.773,"text":"所以我跟你講今天是你們准的然後來這裡玻璃心單單一個學生講一句話台灣就要沉了沈博洋的流島不由人就好恐怖了你現在這邊是我其實對主委搞不清楚你前面感覺是不認同沈博洋你後半段又開始認同他你到底是主張哪一部分你到底是希望兩岸交流還是兩岸不交流啊呃 跟委員報告我們也希望兩岸的交流能正常健康有序的進行"},{"start":15895.356,"end":15900.219,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15924.847,"end":15926.128,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15941.857,"end":15952.342,"text":"可是我今天從結果論來講你剛才也承認啊兩岸交流當然說因素不完全在我們這邊啦這我認同啦但從結果論來講兩岸交流是越來越差勁啦不是嗎至少比起馬政府時代沒錯吧我先不講責任歸屬啦兩岸之間是越來越交流成績越來越倒退嘛沒錯吧"},{"start":15964.312,"end":15966.235,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15978.24,"end":15982.382,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16006.252,"end":16008.634,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16038.78,"end":16061.076,"text":"我直接講個結論當你今天你們民進黨一天到晚兩岸交流是統戰我跟你講我今天最快的建議很簡單海峽交流基金會改成海峽不交流基金會最快預算砍成零兩岸不交流最符合沈伯陽要的東西當然我不會到這種程度我也要講的是什麼"},{"start":16062.037,"end":16068.719,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16087.046,"end":16091.61,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16114.42,"end":16117.964,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16129.859,"end":16131.42,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16146.905,"end":16148.466,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16166.699,"end":16169.683,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16184.232,"end":16203.76,"text":"造謠不造謠是你今天審黑熊你一句話就可以對不對對啦對不起啦口誤啦審黑熊啦好不好對不起啦對不起啦請省委員尊重一下這個質詢的人你來這邊鬧場然後叫我今天針對我的質詢要回答"},{"start":16206.093,"end":16212.135,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16234.295,"end":16240.378,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16261.688,"end":16265.39,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16289.52,"end":16308.351,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16323.394,"end":16340.951,"text":"我們就預算來做討論。陸委會在這個114年的預算當中,法證的業務跟兩岸法證交流,政策規劃以及研擬推動是編列了1339萬1千元。那你這個目的是要研議"},{"start":16344.12,"end":16358.476,"text":"兩岸交流安全管理及衍生的問題來健全整個制度化處理的機制所以本席要在這邊請教也就是說如果是以國安事由限制國人的人身安全"},{"start":16359.116,"end":16377.943,"text":"但是又沒有通知我們也就是說沒有依照海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議的規定來向我們我國來進行通報那主委你有什麼精進的方案能夠保障海峽兩岸人民的一個權利呢請做說明"},{"start":16378.923,"end":16380.544,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16399.654,"end":16403.177,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16421.252,"end":16426.274,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16447.162,"end":16462.73,"text":"我覺得是對岸在執法的態度沒有積極性他認為我們不答應他政治前提他處於你還是以政治前提來回答所有的一切我從早上聽到現在但就是這個答案所以本席具體建議邱主委"},{"start":16464.551,"end":16492.936,"text":"我認為我們兩岸交流剛剛你也回答了兩岸交流不是什麼都不能交流你剛才也特別回答了那我覺得我們台灣這個國家呢中華民國是一個好的國家跟全世界各國都應該要做交流對不對?跟全世界各國都應當有好的交流就要交流嘛對不對?是,楊委員所言甚至為何這個非常好所以本行要請教我們如果只有一位說對方怎麼樣我們還是得不到答案"},{"start":16493.696,"end":16495.078,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16511.694,"end":16531,"text":"你的訊息有沒有?跟委員報告,我們現在還在密註當中。密註當中到底是有還是沒有?你有沒有掌控?有沒有?我們跟許多相關的國安部門都在密註這個情形發生,也做應處。但是剛剛委員所說的是媒體的說法。哪一部分是媒體的說法?"},{"start":16534.841,"end":16536.062,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16554.699,"end":16557.103,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16567.901,"end":16584.494,"text":"我覺得還有一些非常不確定的因素還有一些不確定的因素就你說的這個不確定的因素你認不認同說如果多交流多溝通可以延長誤判的可能性各位委員報告我們也是希望透過交流來緩和兩岸關係你也是希望透過交流"},{"start":16590.579,"end":16591.461,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16605.643,"end":16606.724,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16622.276,"end":16636.693,"text":"在2020年的港版國安法以及2020年的維護國家安全的條例公佈之後那麼國人好像有一點點害怕好像有點害怕但是我們看到在2024年就今年"},{"start":16637.173,"end":16638.113,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16662.243,"end":16678.717,"text":"委員講這個因為中國大陸有國安條例港版國安法或是他們最近所定的這個國家安全條例對於我們赴港澳人身安全確實有很多的升高它的風險所以我們一直也呼籲赴入港澳應該要"},{"start":16681.579,"end":16709.158,"text":"資訊評估它的必要性並向我們的動態登錄系統來登錄以確保它如果有需要的話我們可以提供協助你講的這個動態登錄本期就直接跟你討論因為中華民國是一個民主自由國家你沒有辦法限制人民怎麼走但是你要維護他的安全對不對是因此你講到了也就是赴大陸的跟港澳的緊張救助相關的你所謂的就是那個簡訊"},{"start":16710.419,"end":16711.441,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16726.602,"end":16727.362,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16746.212,"end":16746.892,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16769.659,"end":16770.199,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16794.813,"end":16795.934,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16820.666,"end":16844.675,"text":"因為你目前為止你的登錄成效是還不夠的,對不對?你也回答了是,本席是要告訴你你要怎麼樣去精進方案,這個才是重點,要不然你運動化下去,人家又不願意,那你又認為很危險,那你又說很危險,然後又沒有方案出來,而且成效又沒有出來,那這個邏輯太奇怪,執行效能是不髒的,"},{"start":16849.097,"end":16872.733,"text":"所以我還是給你一個方向你剛剛告訴我你有很多的這個系統怎麼樣去防止你把那個說明資料給本席但是我最後還是要告訴你一句話也就是如果兩岸多交流兩岸多溝通是是我們也要努力這個方向你也願意這個方向但是需要是最等尊嚴健康有序的正常交流所以才不會有誤判"},{"start":16873.473,"end":16875.816,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16902.34,"end":16906.124,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請我們邱垂正主委好請邱主委我也好好主委好"},{"start":16913.131,"end":16914.932,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16935.299,"end":16937.38,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16961.383,"end":16976.552,"text":"賴清德總統有因為去了一趟中國大陸之後回來之後他改變他的台獨思想嗎?就你的理解跟委員報告520之後我們賴總統重申暫穩中華民國憲政體制不卑不亢維持現狀"},{"start":16979.113,"end":16981.955,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17005.175,"end":17029.178,"text":"陸生團來台灣本來我們看到是說第一時間陸委會副主委沈有忠副主委表示說由活動內容項目來講沒有太多的國家安全疑慮啊因為畢竟我們看到是這一次這陸生團他們就是做學術交流有參訪有看101有看淡水有去這個護衛砲台有去這個打棒球也都很好啊"},{"start":17029.938,"end":17051.873,"text":"但是因為他講了一個脫口而出一個用詞而讓我們覺得是說現在是有疑慮的所以你今天早上有講說要做進一步的行政方面的處分是跟委員報告我們從這個團的協助他包括協助他來我們日前有沒有要求說他絕對不能講什麼話"},{"start":17053.715,"end":17055.116,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17072.034,"end":17072.815,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17089.065,"end":17094.287,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17113.035,"end":17114.156,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17142.918,"end":17143.958,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17163.463,"end":17179.87,"text":"這個是他們的意見表達這是多元民主的聲音那還有在者如果說你真的這樣講的話那我實在也說那媒體要不要也要有一些因為看起來就我的看他的那些畫面那也都是媒體的訪問"},{"start":17182.722,"end":17189.505,"text":"主委,我覺得社會在對立或說社會沒有對立,我某種程度上是你們的敏感神經在作祟。因為就我的理解跟認知,中國大陸的學生如果說他從小到大他可能被灌輸的教育觀念是這個樣子,"},{"start":17209.975,"end":17211.876,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17230.595,"end":17248.728,"text":"如果說今天我們要辦任何的一個正常的交流活動我們要求的是別人來到我們這塊土地上面沒有做侮辱性或者是這個攻擊性的言辭但是他一定要講什麼不可的話那我覺得目前為止我們也算是一種思想審查"},{"start":17249.548,"end":17263.993,"text":"主委你會不會覺得我們有必要把自己限縮到這種程度嗎我想已經違反了對等尊嚴的不當說法引起臺灣社會的激烈反應我想我們行政部會議員說實在話啦你是立法院委員會主委"},{"start":17268.755,"end":17285.533,"text":"所以說對於我們來講因為其實本席還有看到另外一個議題所以你今天一開始的時候也有新聞講說解除淨團令那陸委會說持續的評估跟推動但實際上我看內文來講好像其實也沒有任何實質的進展"},{"start":17287.366,"end":17288.728,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17306.049,"end":17307.45,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17320.49,"end":17335.266,"text":"這個東西我們是在警示是在6月27號提出來的那多少倍就是說我們現在從1月到10月賦入的是230萬人次"},{"start":17340.327,"end":17350.214,"text":"主委對業務沒有到很熟齁昨天你們提出來這所謂的專線的時候你們新聞裡面才講增加了五倍"},{"start":17351.543,"end":17353.924,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17378.114,"end":17379.455,"text":"所以看起來你不是一個量化指標,你是個案的一個評估?"},{"start":17405.871,"end":17406.532,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17425.575,"end":17426.276,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17442.412,"end":17445.554,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17461.383,"end":17475.509,"text":"所以看起來 我說實在話啦大家都期待兩岸能夠正常穩定的交流都能夠有更多元的對話讓兩岸能夠更了解金孟程度上可能會降低這個戰爭風險跟惡意的螺旋"},{"start":17476.81,"end":17492.453,"text":"但如果說連我們主旗幟者的大陸委員會都沒有用這種比較客觀明確的一個指標的話我真的很擔憂整個賴清德政府是不是都一味的用更加惡意的方向來持續增加對應沒有我們是為了國人的安全"},{"start":17493.234,"end":17494.795,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17511.314,"end":17516.817,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17536.306,"end":17557.926,"text":"核心存、核心存、核心存人不在。高金數人人、高金數人、高金數人不在。我們現在請沈博洋委員質詢。好,謝謝主席,那有請主委,謝謝。我們請邱主委。"},{"start":17563.007,"end":17589.499,"text":"主委好 主委好那今天大家要問的問題應該都很一致不過在這個之前我還是要講一下就是說真的立法委員之間沒有在互相監督的啦我們監督的對象應該是行政院各部會的體系但是很多委員會習慣性的用言論免責權在這邊造謠我跟你舉一個非常簡單的例子還記得之前我有提出這個立法委員去中國要這個報備的這個法案那當然是被他們阻擋"},{"start":17590.379,"end":17609.465,"text":"然後呢,我在那個專訪裡面呢,從頭到尾就在提說,風險高低,我認為立法委員風險高,所以他去中國應該要報備。整篇專訪都有全程的錄影,我一個字都沒有提到中配啦。就中配兩個字完全沒有出現在我的言論裡面。結果呢,台灣的媒體就下一個標題,難道沈博洋要管共中配嗎?就問號。"},{"start":17610.985,"end":17624.574,"text":"接下來羅志強上來質詢以後他每一次就說沈伯陽說要管控總配我根本講都沒講過這就是他們造謠產業鏈的方式剛剛也是一樣他就在講說我說兩岸交流全部都是統戰"},{"start":17625.697,"end":17628.539,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17646.852,"end":17648.534,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17664.276,"end":17691.433,"text":"我有問文化部說這一次馬龍來的這個問題因為很明顯他有共青團的人他有共產黨的人所以呢他的統戰的目的會比較強烈就是比一般的交流團更強烈那他在那麼強烈的狀況之下剛剛我記得那個逸川委員有問說那個紅線到底在哪裡那文化部那時候的答案是說還是要因為他要跟大家開會嘛他沒有辦法一個人去做這樣的決定但很明顯在今天應該說昨天啊開始他們就做了一些碰觸紅線的舉動"},{"start":17692.834,"end":17712.54,"text":"那我覺得這件事情很麻煩的原因是因為主委應該自己都知道交流團太多了然後你陸委會不可能每一個都跟在旁邊當然你會請他簽一些就說你不能做什麼不能做什麼但在執法的量能上面陸委會他本身就不是一個執法單位所以現在麻煩的地方是說如果他自己說他都有按照行程走"},{"start":17713.28,"end":17713.74,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17732.225,"end":17754.584,"text":"所以他有沒有做陸委會所謂的那個目的外之事情,不好,不好認定,這是第一種。第二種就是像媒體,因為假設他今天出來,這是他不管在台大還有今天在清大,媒體上面堵麥,如果他有比較親近的媒體,那個媒體故意問什麼問題,他就直接按照樣板去回答。那因為他說我沒有在做目的外的舉動,我就只是在受訪而已嘛。"},{"start":17754.984,"end":17775.862,"text":"所以就變成說這邊有一些灰色的地帶那這個灰色地帶以後我相信內委會不可能突然出現那麼多的執法量能所以這也是為什麼我覺得可能在一開始的時候我們要先做一些風險的控管是不是有些個別一開始乾脆不要允許然後能夠在我們能夠看得到的量能之下我們讓他們過來但是要限制他所做的行為那不知道這個未來的規劃會是什麼"},{"start":17777.483,"end":17806.132,"text":"是 非常感謝委員剛剛的寶貴建議像那個重要的這個交流點那我們比如說中山女眾那因為她是大學交流怎麼會到高中交流呢那後來還有一些很不堪的說法那讓這個中山女眾的師生都很憤怒我們也是同感憤怒不應該如此但是那一場我們就有會同如果會同教育部的人到現場去訪視"},{"start":17807.572,"end":17808.914,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17822.329,"end":17823.209,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17837.817,"end":17839.158,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17863.847,"end":17866.968,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17891.994,"end":17909.947,"text":"因為中國會去利用交流做統戰那我們能夠做的事情不是說把交流全部砍掉不是嘛我們做的事情就是他每次要利用的那個點我給他堵住我不能讓他又比如說這次交流的某一個部分來做統戰我們每一個都堵住那這樣的話我們就可以讓他回歸正常方式的交流"},{"start":17910.587,"end":17937.734,"text":"那這邊呢,剛剛其實我記得前面黃委員也有提到我在前面的委員也都有提啦他們就會講說講幾句話又怎樣比如說他講這一個中國台北啦什麼等等之類的這個也是意見表達的自由啊但我在這邊我也想要詢問一下但我自己個人的意見其實非常的清楚就是俄羅斯如果現在在烏克蘭的內部宣傳烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的一部分這個是俄羅斯在當地能夠享有的言論自由嗎?"},{"start":17938.514,"end":17960.657,"text":"我想陸團的人他當然不能完全享有我們台灣的言論自由所以我們當然會用我們目前兩岸的許可辦法或是他所承諾的這些聲明書來歸管他這是必然的所以我們也會基於這些違反我們既有的規定進行必要的行政查處與處分"},{"start":17961.738,"end":17977.916,"text":"因為這個顯然都是紅線嘛因為中國你等於講中國台北的時候他連中華台北都不肯講耶中華台北好歹是在洛桑協議的時候我們硬撐著然後用了這樣的一個名稱用了中國台北跟中華台北他的意思是說我連一中各表都不給你了啦"},{"start":17978.436,"end":17981.597,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財六、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17996.303,"end":17997.904,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18022.516,"end":18037.267,"text":"所以他一方面講得那麼威嚇性另外一方面又用很軟性的方式去表達這個其實就是我們需要特別去提防的事情但最後我還是要提一下就是如果這件事情一再的發生比如說馬英九基金會"},{"start":18038.107,"end":18062.911,"text":"他這個邀請的如果三番兩次有這樣的違反的話我記得今天應該有提到是不是應該要至少限制他能夠再去邀訪的這一個次數或者時間等等之類的那不然的話他違反等於他沒有一個很確切的成本那對他來講他以後要實行這個幫助中國做統戰的成本會太低那這一方面我想說剛剛其實有稍微在逸川的那個時候回答到那是不是能夠再說一次這個部分"},{"start":18063.191,"end":18064.552,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18085.183,"end":18086.764,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18102.671,"end":18103.673,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18118.653,"end":18119.274,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18147.894,"end":18148.975,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18169.407,"end":18194.706,"text":"為其答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會。討論事項所列審查大陸委員會暨所屬單位預算等相關預算提案請113年12月13日星期五中午12點送至內政委員會會場以後續審查作為進行本次會議到此結束現在散會。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}