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災民提了三大的哀求後來都沒做屋頂要人幫忙蓋 國軍要過去通信都不通 都沒有做所以今天要痛定思痛特別現在台風又進來了 總統又進來了我先問你一個最直接的今天已經好幾個立委都問過你這個事了"},{"start":120.768,"end":146.867,"text":"中央的前進指揮所應該什麼時候設立我當時自己沒力氣我發現那個太嚴重了所以我就一直在呼籲大概第一個禮拜我在呼籲說趕快設立中央的前進指揮所指揮所一定是在災區嘛對不對結果你的發言人還出來他竟然造謠說"},{"start":148.917,"end":171.393,"text":"過去的政府從來沒有為了風災設置了中央層級的前進指揮所院長是這樣嗎我是跟發言人講說我們第一時間要全力的處理是風災之間地方政府跟中央應變中心之間的協調工作那事實上是過去的經驗都一直做下來像去年我們三個風災"},{"start":172.895,"end":192.986,"text":"三個颱風我們也是用中央指揮中指揮應變中心跟地方做充分的配合那也是在迅速的完成中央一定有中央緊急應變中心嘛你現在要設立了嘛可是如果災情很大的時候當然前進指揮所就要進來嘛以前八八風災是這樣天平也是這樣嘛這是嚴不嚴重"},{"start":193.906,"end":208.371,"text":"你剛才講這是非常嚴重對不對是嚴重你們是在台北睡著了還是在搞大罷免我們沒有睡著你們不曉得台南跟嘉義那麼嚴重為什麼前進值為什麼可以晚那麼多天我在7月6號長者遲了24天台風入境發布的前一天我就去到彰化跟雲林"},{"start":209.572,"end":224.751,"text":"那颱風之後再不影響救災情況之下交通可通我就去到了南部各地所以我們認為上去年有三個颱風我們也沒有設置我們用中央疫苗中心可以處理的很好但是是因為是一個整個月連續性複合性的災害所以才在7月30號"},{"start":226.193,"end":252.586,"text":"緊急成立的中央應變中心也謝謝陳靜德政委發揮了很高的效率馬上就把該做的事情再後續補上來那這一點我們以後會檢討那是不是請陳靜德政委來做表現聽我講先聽我講我們中華民國的防災體系是非常完整的包括我剛才講的什麼時候要成立什麼時候要成立前進指揮所我等一下會很明確跟你講我現在問你的是"},{"start":253.752,"end":263.794,"text":"你以前設過在位你設過避暑地嗎你的發言人怎麼可以講說以前從來沒有設置過中央層級的前進指揮所呢要更正這個消息"},{"start":266.053,"end":289.589,"text":"報告委 我回答一句就好這個指揮所是災後復原指揮所所以當然是災後的復原至於災害的當下應變救災是中央應變中心那麼中央跟地方都是依照法律規定第一時間就成立所以我在說明的是這個指揮所是災後復原的指揮所"},{"start":290.349,"end":309.143,"text":"當然是災後就在那時候都不趕快成立你現在在成立這個這個是復原指揮所應變中心有應變中心那個院長我現在要求你明確的更正你的發言人的講法他說以前這是第一次嗎我給你看好不好來天平颱風的時候民國101年8月24號你看上面講的"},{"start":318.835,"end":344.668,"text":"當天喔 颱風一登陸行政院長陳聰馬上指示中央災害應變中心指揮官內政部長李鴻元在什麼地方成立前進指揮所屏東啊 為什麼要成立這個一定是在災區嘛 最嚴重在台南在嘉義一定要指揮所在那裡嘛今天在討論的 院長現在我要跟你講的我要跟你講這個非常重要"},{"start":345.526,"end":361.88,"text":"因為你現在已經痛定思痛的討論我剛跟你講已經跌破三層了那麼多民眾不滿意結果你在檢討的時候連一個什麼時候設立前進指揮所都不可以講清楚我們希望以後的颱風不要再起我們希望以後颱風不要再起可是如果哪個地方一直有馬上有出現狀況"},{"start":364.201,"end":383.667,"text":"我們會全力的檢討剛剛委員講過一句話我們的救災機制是非常完善的所以我們現在救災機制完善的底下在災害一發生的時候我們就是用中央應變中心來指揮調度協助各縣市這長久以來已經一段時間都如此了去年我們也是這麼辦那今年是因為屋頂毀損太多"},{"start":386.748,"end":412.825,"text":"電訊系統毀損太多 我們要復原所以成立了剛剛金德政委所說的復原的前進指揮所就是因為災情太嚴重 你更早一點就要下去啊你要動員所有各個部會的這個力量啊跟阿滴一樣 帶你們鄉親去什麼事情有看到你們中央管理下去嗎你除了去了幾次你為什麼沒有一個前進指揮所在那邊可以一直幫忙"},{"start":414.806,"end":440.198,"text":"我們絕對不是說不應該成立前進指揮所是我們現在的救災機制是由中央應變中心來主持救災災害發生的時候那因為現在復原了才有現在這個復原的前進指揮所我們會檢討這個機制或許以後任何一個颱風是不是都需要這麼做我們來檢討這個機制但是中央應變中心的功能還是存在的剛講天平這個設立完做了什麼事情"},{"start":441.414,"end":467.723,"text":"中央的部會首長要進去多年來我們應變中心的機制是存在功能的國防部一定你看國防部派陸軍的副司令跟第四作戰區的指揮官前進指揮所動員多少官兵1500個內政部的消防署社會司救助的救難的全部要進去啊"},{"start":469.264,"end":494.331,"text":"我剛才講這個制度很健全嘛所以為什麼這次民眾這麼不滿笑你們或者罵你們說是中華民國有史以來最爛的救災政府該做的沒有做嘛我們要回到理性國防部始終都進駐在中央應變中心這個就是我們現在的救災機制我們必須在這個機制底下往下去發展所以你還沒有醒來嘛你還不曉得說如果有災害的時候要趕快有個前進指揮所在第一線嘛"},{"start":494.81,"end":520.227,"text":"你在台北看天下我不想跟委員好像辯論說我覺得有中央應變中心就不要前進指揮所絕對不是這個誤會我們是依照現在的救災機制那有特別的需要了復原的時候我們就成立了復原指揮所那這個機制是不是合理完善可以檢討但不要誤會我說我今天在這裡講的是因為我們有中央應變中心我就拒絕成立指揮所不是這個意思所以不要誤會我願意來檢討這個事情"},{"start":522.76,"end":541.508,"text":"來 院長我再給你看一下88風災的時候馬上在第一時間就成立了前進指揮手他一定也是設在中南部嘛那時候各國的那個救難隊都來要到哪邊報到到前進指揮手去報到啊如果像你這一次這個那請問救難的人要到哪邊去報到"},{"start":543.839,"end":565.565,"text":"現在金德剛剛下去你現在想一下你現在才下去你如果是在摘風災的第一個禮拜就在那裡我在提醒這件事情 要有一個痛定思動去想這個事情第二個颱風隨時可能再來好不好先講這個事情來第二個也是很嚴重的事情"},{"start":569.4,"end":595.877,"text":"嘉義郊台南的鄉親苦難還在現在進行時的時候你們的行政院災害防救中心的主任竟然跑出國了哪一位委員說的是哪一位你們的王怡文 王主任啊我們災防辦的主任"},{"start":597.193,"end":622.5,"text":"齁? 齁? 齁? 齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁"},{"start":623.203,"end":649.841,"text":"災防辦做什麼我會調查清楚我會調查清楚這還沒調查過所以你還不曉得這個事情因為內部的請假沒有經過到我不是部會首長級不會到我這裡我會調查清楚這個時間點如果你的主任照出來這個合適嗎因為他去參加APEC會議參加APEC會議"},{"start":652.421,"end":679.271,"text":"參加這個國際的會議比較重要還是現在你這個辦公室成立不就是要防災跟救助嗎兩個非常重要 我一直跟你講颱風的那個後遺症包括屋頂都還沒修好 垃圾也沒有處理好滿目倉儀的時候人民最需要你們幫助的時候 這是一個點第二個 因為我繼續下雨他在這個當頭跑出去開會很痛刺的 他去開會談什麼題目"},{"start":682.441,"end":699.649,"text":"針對丹納斯颱風的因應的這個經驗還在救災中 而且牛步化民間已經 民間都已經退騰了你不留下來好好救災你還跑出去開會 還講一個錯誤的失敗的一個救災的這個經驗院長好好追查清楚 追究責任"},{"start":706.008,"end":730.755,"text":"現在我知道他去參加這EPIC會議講話的內容跟委員剛剛所說的他也許就是用這個內容出去交換更多的經驗回來那是不是能夠得到實質的效果我也請秘書長來了解有沒有把會議當中所獲得的資訊拿回來做更多的協助不只是他啦前一任的這個主任行政院災防辦的這個主任吳武泰"},{"start":733.783,"end":759.847,"text":"他還涉及不當場所 性騷擾還被監察院彈劾這個非常非常重要每天應該都要栓井螺絲釘特別是有風災有大雨的時候一個前離任的被監察院彈劾一個現任的風災還在重建當中還在搶救當中跑出去出去參加公務會議 這個可以"},{"start":761.171,"end":779.467,"text":"跟委員解釋那我們可以檢討這個時機業長我再問你另外一個你都有下去勘災勘災應該是最了解前線的在第一線應該是鄉鎮市長對不對是你下去你有去把鄉鎮市長找來嗎"},{"start":781.533,"end":809.12,"text":"有的我們不在後面幾天的行程我特別交代我們不做媒體的公開我們也不做現場的特別的什麼講話儀式只進行現代的瞭解所以這個就沒有通知地方所有的民意代表跟地方的首長那個新莊新莊的這個滯洪池上面是光電板毀壞你知道嗎那個滯洪池誰管的"},{"start":814.81,"end":837.969,"text":"當場那個鄉長有到現場來結果你去看管理單位的鄉長你都沒有通知還是後來我去找他的那天我們兩個去泡豬泡豬喝水喝到嚴重泡豬起床你還不通知你知道他那天為什麼出現因為我一早就發放漂白水一些物資他才知道你要去你們連第一線就是因為他跟你檔級不一樣嗎可以這樣嗎"},{"start":839.178,"end":867.461,"text":"我後來幾天的心聲我都不想通知媒體跟通知地方首長因為我覺得大家在救災第一辛苦 第二怕影響他沒有很多事情要跟你反映啦來啦 我跟你講這個鄉長黃正哲他在鄉長那裡怎麼說他那時候後來本來要給你陳情書你來不及後來我轉過去給你了他講了一段話你看一下他講啦 把我硬頂皮部會首長去真正要關心的是附近工業區的跟中小企業跟農漁民跟平民百姓"},{"start":869.612,"end":897.248,"text":"經濟部長也去看光電板損壞的 你也去像隔台幾天 高業兵損壞你們可以去看光電板損壞的可是為什麼不多一點時間去關心工業區去關心中小企業 關心農藝民 老百姓我可以把那天的行程拿出來給委員看我們不是去看這個點 是一整天排了很多這是其中的一點到兩個點看光電板只是兩個點而已其他的都是在看其他相關的我做個總結"},{"start":898.889,"end":923.397,"text":"其實啦 這邊的風災牛步化造成了 真的是對不起嘉義跟台南還有災區的這個民眾如果是在 災民已經跟總統當面哀求他提了三大哀求第一個 我防止屋頂被吹走了請幫忙 請幫忙覆蓋總統 說我們要自己爬第二個 希望國軍來協助國軍有協助"},{"start":926.934,"end":942.581,"text":"國進來協助嗎那第五天為什麼災民還必須講要國進來表示表示前面沒有嘛對不對後面有嗎我們第一天就請國進協助後面一直到大雨的時候才開始來嘛對不對你們中間中斷了多少時間這個災民已經越生再到了你們現在還不清楚"},{"start":946.305,"end":970.075,"text":"我跟妳講 剛剛講這件事情因為頭腦變成當天馬上回復 馬上一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復一修復"},{"start":986.544,"end":991.626,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝張綺凱雯子昀謝謝 陳院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":460,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時49分）謝謝院長，請行政院院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：張委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：院長，你去年剛上任的時候，民意滿意度是高的，那時候還有五成多、六成嘛！昨天TVBS的最新民調已經跌破三成了，賴總統正式跌破三成，你們兩個都創歷史上的新低，總統變成一個滿意度28%的總統，然後這個問卷特別再問：你對這次的風災救災滿不滿意？五成八的民眾不滿意，而且非常特別，我很少看到這樣的民調，高達43%的民眾直接講「非常不滿意」，所以我們一定要痛定思痛，檢討這次風災到底出了怎麼樣的問題。","我從災區過來，嘉義及臺南的鄉親在這段時間很多時候有提出哀求及請求，包括總統都曾經面對災民，災民提了三大哀求，後來都沒做，包括屋頂要有人幫忙蓋、國軍要過去、通信都不通，這些都沒有做，所以今天要痛定思痛。特別現在颱風又要進來了，我先問一個最直接的，今天已經好幾個立委都問過你這件事了，就是中央的前進指揮所應該什麼時候設立？我回去嘉義沒多久就發現災情太嚴重了，所以我一直在呼籲，大概第一個禮拜我就呼籲趕快設立中央的前進指揮所。指揮所一定是在災區，對不對？結果你的發言人竟然還出來造謠說，過去的政府從來沒有為了風災設置中央層級的前進指揮所。院長，是這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟發言人說我們第一時間要全力地處理風災地方政府跟中央應變中心之間的協調工作，事實上過去的經驗都一直做下來，像去年有3個風災、3個颱風，我們也是用中央指揮應變中心跟地方充分的配合，也是在迅速的時間完成。"],["張委員啓楷：中央一定有中央緊急應變中心，現在楊柳颱風即將進來，要設立了，如果災情很大，當然前進指揮所就要進去，以前八八風災是這樣，天秤風災也是這樣嘛！這次嚴不嚴重？你剛剛也講了，這次非常嚴重，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是嚴重。"],["張委員啓楷：你們在臺北睡著了，還是在搞大罷免？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有睡著。"],["張委員啓楷：你們不曉得臺南和嘉義那麼嚴重，為什麼前進指揮所的設立可以晚那麼多天？整整遲了24天耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：在7月6號颱風陸警發布的前一天，我就到彰化跟雲林……"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！你有去，我們都知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：颱風之後，在不影響救災情況底下，交通可通，我就到了南部各地。我們認為像去年有3個颱風也沒有設置，我們用中央應變中心可以處理得很好，但這次因為是一整個月連續性、複合性的災害，所以才在7月30號緊急成立了中央應變中心。也謝謝陳金德政委發揮了很高的效率，馬上就把該做的事情後續補上來，這一點我們以後會檢討，是不是請陳金德政委說明一下？"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，前進指……"],["張委員啓楷：聽我講，先聽我講。中華民國的防災體系是非常完整的，包括我剛才講的……"],["陳主任委員金德：報告委員……"],["張委員啓楷：什麼時候要成立前進指揮所，我等一下會很明確跟你講。我現在問你的是，院長，你以前做過立委、做過秘書長，你的發言人怎麼可以說以前從來沒有設置過中央層級的前進指揮所呢？要不要更正這個消息？要不要更正這個消息？"],["陳主任委員金德：報告委員、報告委員，我回答一句就好……"],["張委員啓楷：沒有、沒有，讓院長答、讓院長答……"],["陳主任委員金德：這個指揮所是災後復原指揮所，所以當然是災後的復原。至於災害的當下，應變、救災是中央應變中心……"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！所以我現在問你……"],["陳主任委員金德：中央跟地方都是依照法律規定，第一時間就成立，所以我在說明的是，這個指揮所是災後復原的指揮所，當然是災後，不會是在……"],["張委員啓楷：你連救災那時候都不趕快成立，現在在成立這個所謂重建的……"],["陳主任委員金德：這個是復原指揮所，應變中心有應變中心。"],["張委員啓楷：院長，我現在要求你明確地更正你發言人的講法，他說以前……這是第一次嗎？我給你看，天秤颱風的時候，民國101年8月24日，你看行政院的新聞稿上面講的，當天颱風一登陸，行政院院長陳冲馬上指示中央災害應變中心指揮官內政部部長李鴻源，在什麼地方成立前進指揮所？屏東啊！為什麼要成立這個？一定是在災區嘛！像這次最嚴重在臺南、在嘉義，指揮所一定要設在那裡嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，委員剛剛講過……"],["張委員啓楷：今天在討論的，院長，現在我要跟你講的這個非常重要，因為你現在已經痛定思痛要檢討。我剛剛跟你講，你的滿意度已經跌破三成了，那麼多民眾不滿意，結果你們在檢討卻連什麼時候設立前進指揮所都不願意講清楚……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個我們會……"],["張委員啓楷：我們希望以後的颱風不要有災情。院長，我們希望以後颱風不要有災情，可是哪個地方出現狀況，前進指揮所馬上就要進去……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們會全力的檢討。剛剛委員講過一句話，我們的救災機制是非常完善的，所以現在的救災機制完善底下，在災害一發生的時候，我們就是用中央應變中心來指揮、調度、協助各縣市，長久以來、已經一段時間都是如此，去年我們也是這麼辦。今年是因為屋頂毀損太多，電訊系統毀損太多，我們要復原，所以成立剛剛陳金德政委所說的復原前進指揮所。"],["張委員啓楷：就是因為災情太嚴重，你更應該早一點就要下去，你要動員各個部會所有的力量，嘉義和臺南的鄉親在氣什麼事情？叫天天不應，叫地地不靈，有看到你們中央的官員下去嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有下去嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：你除了去了幾次，為什麼沒有一個前進指揮所在那邊可以一直幫忙？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們再回到剛才講的，我們絕對不是說不應該成立前進指揮所，而是現在的救災機制是由中央應變中心來主持救災，在災害發生的時候，因為現在要復原了才有這個復原前進指揮所，我們會檢討這個機制，或許以後任何一個颱風是不是都需要這麼做，我們來檢討這個機制，但是中央應變中心的功能還是存在的。"],["張委員啓楷：剛剛講天秤颱風設立完做了什麼事情，中央的部會首長要進去……"],["卓院長榮泰：十多年來我們的應變中心機制是存在功能的。"],["張委員啓楷：院長，你看一下，國防部派陸軍副司令和第四作戰區指揮官進駐前進指揮所，動員1,500個官兵，內政部消防署、社會司救助救難的全部要進去，我剛剛就講這個制度很健全，為什麼這次民眾這麼不滿？笑你們或者罵你們是中華民國有史以來最爛的救災政府，該做的沒有做嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們要回到理性……"],["張委員啓楷：我們再看下一個，八八風災，不只天秤……"],["卓院長榮泰：國防部始終都進駐在中央應變中心，這個就是現在的救災機制，我們必須在這個機制底下往下去發展。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你還沒有醒來，你還不曉得如果有災害的時候要趕快有個前進指揮所在第一線，你在臺北去看天下。"],["卓院長榮泰：我不想跟委員辯論，好像我覺得有中央應變中心就不要前進指揮所，絕對不是這個誤會，我們是依照現在的救災機制，有特別需要、復原的時候，我們就成立復原指揮所。這個機制是不是合理完善可以檢討，但不要誤會我今天在這裡講的是，因為我們有中央應變中心，我就拒絕成立指揮所，不是這個意思，所以不要誤會，我願意來檢討這個事情。"],["張委員啓楷：院長，我們再看一下，八八風災的時候，馬上在第一時間就成立了前進指揮所，它一定也是設在中南部，那時候各國的救難隊都來了，要到哪邊報到？到前進指揮所去報到，如果像這一次，請問救難的人要到哪邊去報到？陳金德剛剛下去……"],["卓院長榮泰：各縣市都有應變……"],["張委員啓楷：你再想一下，你現在才下去，如果是在風災的第一個禮拜就在那裡……我再提醒這件事情，現在要痛定思痛去想這件事情，因為颱風隨時可能再來，好不好？先講這個事情。第二個也是很嚴重的事情，當嘉義和臺南鄉親的苦難還在現在進行式的時候，行政院災害防救中心主任竟然跑出國了。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員說的是哪一位？"],["張委員啓楷：你們的王怡文主任。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們災防辦公室的主任。"],["張委員啓楷：你不知道這件事嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：他一定是因公務出去吧。"],["張委員啓楷：那個是什麼時候？第一個，颱風整個重建……"],["卓院長榮泰：我會調查清楚。"],["張委員啓楷：就如同你說的，還有好幾萬間的房子還沒處理好，還在防救的這個階段。第二個，還開始下大雨了……"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我會調查清楚。"],["張委員啓楷：行政院災防辦主任不在，你設這個災防辦做什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會調查清楚。"],["張委員啓楷：你還沒調查過，所以你還不曉得這個事情？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為內部的請假沒有經過我，不是部會首長級，流程不會到我這裡，我會調查清楚。"],["張委員啓楷：這個時間點，如果你的主任跑出去，合適嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為他去參加APEC會議。"],["張委員啓楷：參加國際會議比較重要，還是……這個辦公室成立不就是要防災和救助嗎？還有兩個非常重要的事情，我一直在跟你講颱風的後遺症，包括屋頂都還沒修好，垃圾也沒有處理好，當滿目瘡痍的時候、人民最需要你們幫助的時候，這是一個點。第二個，又繼續下雨，他在這個當頭跑出去開會，很諷刺的，他去開會談什麼題目？針對丹娜絲颱風因應的經驗，還在救災中，而且牛步化，民怨都已經沸騰了，不留下來好好救災，你還跑出去開會、還講了一個錯誤的、失敗的救災經驗？請院長好好追查清楚、追究責任。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我所知道他是參加APEC會議，講話的內容跟委員剛剛所說的，他也許就是用這個內容出去交換更多的經驗回來，那是不是能夠得到實質效果，我會請秘書長來瞭解，有沒有把會議當中所獲得的資訊拿回來做更多的協助。"],["張委員啓楷：不只是他啦！前一任的行政院災防辦主任吳武泰，他還涉足不當場所、性騷擾，還被監察院彈劾，災防辦非常非常重要欸！每天都應該要拴緊螺絲釘，特別是有風災、有大雨的時候，前一任的被監察院彈劾；現任的，風災還在重建當中、還在搶救當中，他跑出去了。"],["卓院長榮泰：他出去參加公務會議，這個可以跟委員解釋，我們可以檢討這個時機適不適合……"],["張委員啓楷：院長，我再問你另外一個，你跟我有下去勘災，而最瞭解前線、在第一線的應該是鄉鎮市長，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你下去有把鄉鎮市長找來嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有的。在後面幾天的行程，我特別交代我們不做媒體的公開，我們也不做現場特別的什麼講話儀式，只進行現場瞭解，所以這個就沒有通知地方所有的民意代表跟地方首長。"],["張委員啓楷：你去新庄的滯洪池，上面的光電板毀壞了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是。"],["張委員啓楷：你知道那個滯洪池誰管的？"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道，當場那個鄉長……"],["張委員啓楷：鄉長啊！對不對？管理單位是鄉長啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：鄉長有到現場來，對。"],["張委員啓楷：結果管理單位的鄉長都沒有通知，還是後來我去找他的。那天我們兩個人去朴子勘災，朴子淹水那麼嚴重，朴子市長你也不通知，你知道他那天為什麼出現？因為我一早去發放漂白水及一些物資，他才知道你要去欸！他是在第一線，是因為他跟你黨籍不一樣嗎？可以這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是。後來幾天的行程，我都不想通知媒體跟通知地方首長，因為我覺得大家在救災，第一，辛苦；第二，怕影響……"],["張委員啓楷：他們有很多事情要跟你反映啦！來，我跟你講，看義竹鄉鄉長黃政傑是怎麼說的，他那時候本來要給你陳情書，但來不及，後來我轉過去給你了，他講了一段話，你看一下。他說：包括院長、部會首長去，真正要關心的是附近工業區的中小企業、農漁民跟平民百姓。經濟部長也去看損壞的光電板，你也有去，相隔才幾天，嘉義的民眾就問了，你們可以去看損壞的光電板，可是為什麼不多花一點時間去關心工業區的中小企業、關心農漁民及老百姓？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我可以把那天的行程拿出來給委員看，我們不是去看這個點，是一整天排了很多行程，這是其中的一點到兩個點，看光電板只是其中兩個點而已，其他則都是在看其他相關的。"],["張委員啓楷：我做個總結，其實這次的風災救援牛步化，真的是對不起嘉義跟臺南，還有災區的民眾；如果災民已經跟總統當面哀求，他提了三大哀求，第一個，我房子屋頂被吹走了……"],["卓院長榮泰：都有在修繕了。"],["張委員啓楷：請幫忙用帆布覆蓋，但總統說我們要自己爬。第二個，希望國軍來協助……"],["卓院長榮泰：國軍有協助。"],["張委員啓楷：國軍有來協助嗎？那第5天，為什麼災民還必須講要國軍來協助，表示前面沒有嘛，對不對？後面有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們第一天就請國軍協助。"],["張委員啓楷：後面也是到大雨的時候才開始來嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一天就請國軍協助。"],["張委員啓楷：你們中間中斷了多少時間？災民已經怨聲載道了，你們現在還不清楚？還有第三個，通訊不通……"],["卓院長榮泰：我到每一個現場都有國軍的指揮官在現場。"],["張委員啓楷：我跟你講，剛剛講的這些事情都是出過人命的，因為總統沒有在當天馬上處理，有人修屋頂掉下來，過世了；通訊不通沒有處理好，受傷了，電話打不出去，人也走了，來不及救助，這些都是人命；還有一個因為停電，在家裡面點蠟燭，喪生在火海，如果可以來得及，那一天在風災的第5天、7月11號，當災民已經哀求總統你要做這3件事情，大家想一想，這3條人命會這樣走掉嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都有逐步在展開。"],["張委員啓楷：好不好？"],["主席：好，謝謝……"],["張委員啓楷：一定要痛定思痛，針對問題去解決問題，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請登記第7號徐富癸委員質詢，張嘉郡委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":138,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-24","speakers":["韓國瑜","鍾佳濱","傅崐萁","林國成","王定宇","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","徐富癸","張嘉郡","賴惠員","謝龍介","林俊憲","王育敏","蔡易餘","邱鎮軍","郭國文","蘇清泉","陳冠廷","盧縣一","林岱樺","羅智強","劉建國","黃建賓"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2025-08-12"],"gazette_id":"1147001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147001_00003","1147001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第24次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147001_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}