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辛苦了你好嗎的意思我們今天談這個"},{"start":34.385,"end":60.104,"text":"114年度跟總預算的審查之後所涉及的今天的議題所以我們還是要回顧一下這個114年度總預算審查的一個情形也作為因為下禮拜很重要的追加預算的審查都會跟這個114年度總預算當初"},{"start":63.826,"end":90.683,"text":"立法院在韓國瑜院長這個召集朝野協商的時候的一個狀況我們看這個當初這個在今年1月15號16號甚至韓國瑜院長說如果兩天不夠禮拜六禮拜天還可以加開但是在這個過程當中"},{"start":92.339,"end":113.801,"text":"就是非常非常的不順利幾乎應該是完全沒有審正式去審這個114年度的總預算因為我過去當公務員很久也常來立法院也當了好幾年的立法委員這個"},{"start":116.909,"end":140.741,"text":"立法院院長主持朝野協商就是怎麼樣把這個大家的意見能夠做一個溝通說明讓行政院相關的部會做很好的說明之後能夠調整這個刪減的額度這個是一個很重要的一個過程但是這一次"},{"start":141.756,"end":161.5,"text":"今年的一月中旬卻沒辦法完成這樣的一個情況甚至我們韓國瑜院長甚至在預算三讀通過之後還召開了這個茶葉協商也請這個立法行政院來說明當韓院長請這個我們的"},{"start":166.812,"end":195.888,"text":"行政院秘書長來說明的時候我們柯總召竟然不讓他說明所以就這樣產生這樣的一個問題才會造成現在的一個狀況原來後來之後才發現原來是去年1月13號就定調為了要罷免原來總預算的審查成為一個罷免的一個素材之一"},{"start":197.072,"end":219.524,"text":"所以這個部分是我們 我之所以要去回顧這個部分因為下禮拜就要 又要急診對立法院來講 對不對我們要刪這個 你要追加預算所以我們要運用智慧 要多溝通 多協調這個部分是一個 先回顧"},{"start":220.646,"end":242.614,"text":"如果誠如鄭委員所說的那個場景我們發覺我們應該發覺近兩個禮拜以來立法院的協商氣氛是好的是有進展的那我們就要努力來維持這樣好的狀況我們把它扭轉回來這也就是我說的我們盡量來調整行政立法兩院互動的模式我也很樂意看到這樣的一個進步"},{"start":244.611,"end":270.017,"text":"這個反正都溝通了就行政部門而言了過去我當無論是當處長或是常務副主委常常到各個委員的辦公室去溝通說明當然院長不需要但是怎麼樣去跟各黨團都溝通都說明這是一個必要的好我們看這個原住民族第七基本設施維持費這個是今天的這個"},{"start":272.545,"end":299.173,"text":"報告的一個案子之一我們看這個今天院長的報告裡面也提到全額撥付這個撥付全額撥付我們回顧一下這個在民國89年520陳水扁總統上任之後第一任的主任委員Yuhani主任委員在民國90年的期間"},{"start":301.744,"end":330.508,"text":"山地鄉 沿鄉的鄉長到台北來陳情陳情什麼呢 是因為有部分的縣長克扣了這個統籌應該要分給要撥給這個鄉 山地鄉的這些經費所以他們來陳情當時的尤哈尼主任委員請我去協調行政院主計總署去協調之後同意"},{"start":332.718,"end":359.743,"text":"從91年度開始由嚴明會來編列這個經費而這樣的一個事情的宣布我們就安排正好那一年民國90年張俊雄院長要去致辭有關我們嚴明會所辦的全國原住民族行政會議在那個場合宣布由嚴明會每年編列5億4千6百萬元"},{"start":360.974,"end":386.172,"text":"給我們的延鄉作為這預算書這是91年度的預算書為什麼要特別把預算書寫出來呢就是在呈現預算書的說明寫得很清楚基本財政收支差短就是要補助延鄉的基本財政收支差短所以這個是一個對延鄉來講是一個很重要的一個一筆經費"},{"start":388.945,"end":417.378,"text":"所以我們很遺憾的就是說這個怎麼會因為總預算認為被刪了然後我們演兵會的預算我們並沒有刪這筆經費那演兵會竟然在今年的2月27號當然他奉一定是奉行政院的指示或是主計總署的指示要去處理所以扣減了百分之五十本期"},{"start":419.57,"end":422.511,"text":"從3月24號 3月25號4月14號 5月15 5月286月4號 6月17 6月24不斷的質詢協調發文尤其是我們組計長我質詢了好幾次"},{"start":435.663,"end":463.414,"text":"主計總署發文的說明是說因為114年度立法院審查的時候刪減通案刪減之後要自行調整636億636億所以這個也被牽連到所以我就質詢了質詢主計長我說一般性補助款被刪減的"},{"start":466.927,"end":490.497,"text":"被行政院自行刪減的636億再加上基本設施維持費3億2千就是639億多了那不超過了嗎超越刪減總數所以行政院的主席總署很快的就請延明會所以延明會在6月24號就發文"},{"start":494.332,"end":520.677,"text":"而定撥付這個原來被扣留的被扣減的這個三億兩千萬我之所以要提這個事情已經解決的事情為什麼要提我的意思是說 園民會也要堅持要去跟主計總署說明要去行政院說明這個是為了原鄉的財政收支的差短"},{"start":523.593,"end":526.138,"text":"所以這個不應該去刪減扣減這個部分只做一個這樣的一個"},{"start":529.239,"end":556.47,"text":"案例讓我們嚴明會但是如果我們從這個你的今天行政院的報告裡面到了8月才撥那麼少真的是要加快的撥款 可以嗎OK 跟委員報告我們就只是動靜不是把它扣起來第二個就是說我們2月27號就核定到現在我們55個公所還有10個公所還沒有報來"},{"start":561.532,"end":583.982,"text":"鄉長反映的就是沒有了這個錢沒有了這個錢因為整個氛圍就是這樣好不好所以這個部分他們誤會因為到現在我們也全部都核定還有只有目前第二期也只有十個鄉公所送完而已我們會趕快來請公所趕快來提報接下來還是要請主計長"},{"start":591.286,"end":609.372,"text":"我們今天談的這個114年度地方政府制一般性補助款這個行政院這個5月16號的公文這個修正了這個補助地方一般性補助款的額度總共"},{"start":611.862,"end":637.809,"text":"636億平均27.3%對地方來說是一個很大的一個困難那事實上如果我們看這個中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法這個第一條法律的授權是財政收支劃分法還有地方制度法的一個授權訂定的第二條"},{"start":639.284,"end":663.586,"text":"正式編制警政消防人員操刑加班費需要從這邊來支應第二條第三項第三目依國民年金法農民健康保險條例老年農民福利津貼暫行條例集中低收入戶老人生活津貼發起辦法等相關法規因為在這些法規裡面"},{"start":664.867,"end":688.699,"text":"有明定中央要編多少的比例地方要編多少的比例從這個這條條文就可以證明他是法律義務支出法律義務支出這個第三條第一項也是這樣對針對教育社會福利的一個支出行政院"},{"start":690.275,"end":717.288,"text":"發文給立法院針對114年度總預算送來的時候在7年的8月底送來的時候行政院主計總署的明細表也特別列舉依法例義務支出的明細表是包含了一般性的補助款這個是非常的明確我們看民進黨1月21號的臉書"},{"start":720.509,"end":747.022,"text":"民進黨1月21號的臉書也認證了立法院沒有刪減一般性不足他也認定了這個是中央法定的支出所以我們這樣子來看這個案子最主要就是要談的是什麼這個就是我們要回顧為什麼剛才要回顧就是沒有溝通"},{"start":749.012,"end":770.567,"text":"本來可以溝通的幾十年來立法院在審查總預算已經有這個慣例了經過溝通之後都不會那麼硬都是可以溝通的我再一次的因為我沒有機會溝通下禮拜很重要"},{"start":772.049,"end":800.087,"text":"下禮拜很重要所以這個部分無論是針對追加預算到底哪些應該是適合追加到底應該就立法院的立場就行政院的立場怎麼去這是一個我們韓國瑜院長也要傷腦筋的地方所以大家都要傷腦筋來去解決這樣的一個問題所以"},{"start":801.894,"end":830.421,"text":"但再怎麼樣都要與人民的福祉最為優先的一個考量好 我們這個現在剩下一分鐘多的我就還是要談一下我們現在最重要就原住民族而言或平埔原住民而言現在目前最重要的就是這個"},{"start":832.253,"end":858.973,"text":"平埔原住民族群身份法我一直在拜託這個這個內政委員會的召委也排了 也開了 也協調了剩下還要排這個這個協商黨防協商這個日期已經很迫切因為按照司法院的憲法法庭的判決"},{"start":860.185,"end":889.231,"text":"直到10月大家都知道9月10月總諮詢也不會有法案的審查所以下禮拜以前是很重要但是第一個預算要先編最起碼人數是多少呢按照內支部的估算是98萬但是一開始登記的話可能不會那麼多就以台南來講"},{"start":890.604,"end":918.347,"text":"他們都已經登記囉 台南啊在復政事務所都登記囉在賴總統當市長的時候就開始登記了就五千多人了所以我們延民會曾主委的預估是今年年底以前會有失望預算要編列要請主席長要請院長那個支持因為預算的編列通常按照時程的話就是這個禮拜"},{"start":920.134,"end":933.207,"text":"就要因為按照規定就是8月底已經要送到立法院所以這個部分務必要去支持 好不好好 謝謝鄭天才委員的資訊"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":123,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（15時2分）韓院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：卓院長，辛苦了。Nga'ay ho？這是「你好嗎？」的意思。今天談114年度總預算審查之後所涉及的議題，所以我們還是要回顧一下114年度總預算審查的情形，這也是為了下禮拜很重要的追加預算的審查。當初立法院在韓國瑜院長召集朝野協商114年度總預算的時候是今年1月15日及16日，韓國瑜院長甚至說：如果兩天不夠，禮拜六、禮拜天還可以加開。但是在這個過程當中非常、非常的不順利，應該是完全沒有正式去審114年度的總預算，這跟過去……因為我過去當了很久的公務員，常來立法院，也當了好幾年的立法委員，立法院院長主持朝野協商，就是怎麼樣把大家的意見做一個溝通，讓行政院相關部會做很好的說明之後，能夠去調整或刪減額度，這個是一個很重要的過程。但是這一次、今年1月中旬卻沒有辦法完成這樣的情況，甚至我們韓國瑜院長在預算三讀通過之後，還召開了朝野協商，也請行政院來說明。當韓院長請行政院秘書長說明的時候，柯總召竟然不讓他說明，所以就產生這樣的問題，才會造成現在的狀況。後來才發現，原來是去年1月13日就定調，為了要罷免，原來總預算的審查成為罷免的素材之一。我之所以要回顧這個部分，是因為下禮拜又要審，對於立法院來講，我們沒有刪這個啊，你要追加預算？所以我們要運用智慧，多溝通、多協調，所以先回顧這部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：誠如鄭委員所說的場景，我們發覺近兩個禮拜以來，立法院協商的氣氛是好的，是有進展的，我們要努力維持這樣好的狀況，把它扭轉回來，這也就是我說的，我們儘量來調整行政、立法兩院互動的模式，我也很樂意看到這樣的進步。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：反正多溝通，就行政部門而言，過去無論我是當處長或是常務副主委，常常到各個委員辦公室去溝通說明，當然院長不需要，但是怎麼樣去跟各黨團多溝通、多說明，這是必要的。","我們看原住民族地區基本設施維持費，這個是今天報告的案子之一，今天院長的報告裡面也提到全額撥付，我們回顧一下，民國89年520陳水扁總統上任之後，第一任的Yohani主任委員在民國90年期間，山地鄉原鄉的鄉長到臺北來陳情，陳情什麼呢？是因為有部分縣長剋扣了應該要撥給山地鄉的經費，所以他們來陳情，當時Yohani主任委員請我去協調行政院主計總處，協調之後，同意從91年度開始，由原民會來編列經費。正好那一年，民國90年張俊雄院長要去原民會所辦理的全國原住民族行政會議致詞，所以就在那個場合宣布，由原民會每年編列5億4,600萬元給我們的原鄉。","這是91年度的預算書，我為什麼要特別把預算書列出來呢？就是在呈現預算書的說明寫得很清楚「基本財政收支差短」，是要補助原鄉的基本財政收支差短，這對原鄉來講是很重要的一筆經費，所以我們很遺憾的就是說，這個怎麼會因為總預算認為被刪了，其實我們並沒有刪除原民會的這筆經費，原民會竟然在今年的2月27日扣減了50%，這一定是奉行政院的指示或是主計總處的指示去處理！本席在3月24日、3月25日、4月14日、5月15日、5月28日、6月4日、6月17日、6月24日，不斷地質詢、協調、發文，尤其是主計長，我質詢了好幾次。主計總處發文的說明是說，因為114年度立法院審查時，通案刪減之後，要自行調整636億，這個也被牽連到。所以我就質詢主計長說，一般性補助款被行政院自行刪減了636億，再加上基本設施維持費3億2,000萬，就是六百三十九億多，那不是超過了嗎？已經超越刪減總數。所以行政院主計總處很快地洽請原民會，原民會也在6月24日就發文核定撥付原來被扣留、被扣減的3億2,000萬。我之所以要提這個已經解決的事情，意思是原民會也要堅持去跟主計總處說明，要跟行政院說明這個是為了原鄉財政收支的差短，所以不應該去刪減、扣減，這個部分只是作一個案例讓原民會瞭解。但是從今天行政院的報告裡面，到了8月才撥那麼少，真的是要加快撥款，可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，我們只是凍結，不是把它扣起來；第二個是我們2月27日就核定，到現在55個公所中還有10個沒有提報，第2期……"],["鄭天財Sra 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Kacaw委員：請主委先回座。我們今天談的114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款，行政院5月16日的公文修正了地方一般性補助款的額度，總共636億，平均27.3%，對地方來說是一個很大的困難。事實上如果看中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法，第一條法律的授權是依財政收支劃分法還有地方制度法而訂定的；第二條規定正式編制警政、消防人員超勤加班費要從這邊來支應；第二條第三項第三目規定「依國民年金法、農民健康保險條例、老年農民福利津貼暫行條例及中低收入老人生活津貼發給辦法之相關規定……」，因為這些法規裡面有明定中央要編多少比例、地方要編多少比例，從這個條文就可以證明它是法律義務支出；第三條第一項也是這樣，是針對教育、社會福利的支出。","行政院發文給立法院，針對114年度總預算在去年8月底送來的時候，行政院主計總處的明細表也特別列舉，依法律義務支出的明細表是包含了一般性補助款，這個是非常的明確。我們看民進黨1月21日的臉書，也認證了立法院沒有刪減一般性補助款，它也認定了這個是中央法定的支出。所以我們這樣來看這個案子最主要要談的是什麼？就是我們要回顧，為什麼剛才要回顧？就是沒有溝通嘛！本來可以溝通的，幾十年來，立法院審查總預算都已經有這個慣例，經過溝通之後就不會那麼硬了，都是可以溝通的，我再次的……因為我沒有機會去溝通，所以下禮拜很重要，針對追加預算的部分，到底哪些應該、適合追加，到底就立法院的立場、就行政院的立場，怎麼去……這是我們韓國瑜院長要去傷腦筋的一個地方，也是大家都要傷腦筋來解決的一個問題，但再怎麼樣，都要以人民的福祉為最優先考量。","接著剩下一分多鐘時間，我還是要談一下平埔原住民族的問題。對原住民族而言，或是對平埔原住民而言，目前最重要的就是平埔原住民族群身分法，我一直拜託內政委員會召委排審，會排了、也開了、也協調了，剩下就是排黨團協商。日期已經很迫切，因為按照司法院憲法法庭判決是到10月，大家都知道，9月、10月總質詢期間並不會有法案的審查，所以下禮拜以前很重要，但第一個，預算要先編列，最起碼要知道人數是多少，按照內政部的估算是98萬，但是一開始登記可能不會那麼多，就以臺南來講，他們在賴總統當市長的時候都已經在戶政事務所登記了，一開始登記就有五千多人，原民會曾主委預估今年年底以前會有10萬人，所以預算要編列，也請主計長、院長支持，因為按照預算編列時程，這個禮拜就要……因為依照規定8月底以前要送到立法院，所以這個部分務必要支持，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會按預算程序辦理，謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","接下來請邱鎮軍委員質詢，陳亭妃委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳昭姿","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","黃國昌","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","陳亭妃","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","張雅琳","賴惠員","王正旭","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2025-08-19"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00004","1147101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費\n等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}