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我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":23.602,"end":38.018,"text":"陳委員好院長我剛剛聽了很多委員的質詢我發現大家好像都失憶了就是說為什麼我們會刪一般性補助款行政院為什麼會刪為什麼"},{"start":40.202,"end":64.185,"text":"我們是卓山一般性補助館25%左右因為整個中央政府總預算在今年的審查過程當中被刪減2076億其中要我們自行刪減636億行政院已經無法在1439億之外再自行刪減636億所以我們採刑是讓地方跟中央共同度過這個難關所以用這樣平均分配的方式"},{"start":64.844,"end":89.674,"text":"所以是因為國民黨在野黨刪了我們行政院的預算還要我們自行調整我們已經沒有辦法再調整了所以不得不我們也很反抗啊因為所有的縣市都有不論是國民黨執政的民進黨執政的全部都刪台南市被刪了51億"},{"start":91.596,"end":96.32,"text":"我告訴你這五十億對我們台南來講有多大的困難"},{"start":97.85,"end":126.399,"text":"我們在這當中我們目前必須控管在各單位30%而且人員預缺不補現在人非常重要沒有人怎麼做事我們卻必須控管預缺不補還有沒有發包的工程農水路重不重要很重要啊還有我們區域排水整治改善工程重不重要很重要"},{"start":127.579,"end":154.82,"text":"現在極端氣候水對我們來講治水非常重要還有我們的新闢道路全民運動館老舊工業區的更改這個更改工程還有市場新整建的工程等等這些都暫緩不發包這是黃偉哲市長直接對外說明因為我們被刪減了五十億"},{"start":156.161,"end":179.208,"text":"我想對於每一個縣市都一樣還有我們活動的補助先控管40%甚至其他有可能受到重大影響的因為我們要配合款所以有可能是鐵路地下化還有台南捷運南線等等這些對於台南非常重大非常重大"},{"start":180.436,"end":204.137,"text":"所以為什麼現在大家本末倒置為什麼不先說因才有這個國所以我們現在行政院也做了補救我們再追加預算要把這636億補回來對不對那就看在野黨的態度你們是在打真球還是打假球"},{"start":205.287,"end":229.694,"text":"你們口口聲聲說為了各縣市的地方建設這個一般補助款不能刪把行政院罵到臭頭那行政院現在已經要把追加追回來那就看你在野黨的態度啊我覺得如果今天大家認為這很重要我認為很重要我全力支持"},{"start":230.28,"end":249.816,"text":"謝謝委員 我也希望大院能夠通力來支持這樣的最佳預算我們就能夠全速如期的讓地方不會發生這樣的困窘而且速度越快 根本不用省啊請我們韓院長 朝野協商因為我們上個禮拜送進來了嘛請朝野協商趕快開會討論協商處理"},{"start":255.373,"end":283.345,"text":"有什麼問題很快就可以處理啊韓院長召集的這幾次協商效率跟內容都相當的好我們認為這是一個良好的互動模式對嘛所以我們這一次的追加預算也可以比照辦理啊根本不用再進入到審查因為這個真的是及時雨在今年今年現在已經八月是不是如果再拖下去可能我們救不了及時雨"},{"start":284.4,"end":299.097,"text":"所以院長我要拜託兩位院長卓院長還有韓院長我們拜託韓院長是不是盡快召開草野協商大家如果認為一般補助款很重要"},{"start":300.495,"end":318.893,"text":"那拜託大家摒棄所有的成見為了我們這個國家好為了地方的建設好就把636億趕快通過我相信這才是我們台灣人民之福所以拜託韓院長拜託"},{"start":319.932,"end":335.965,"text":"也拜託卓院長我們會盡快完成行政院內部的程序然後送交大院來審議我也知道韓院長已經有預定了相當好的時間要進行各項的協商預計下禮拜我們會有進一步的進展所以真的要拜託兩位院長這個對我們"},{"start":337.526,"end":356.205,"text":"台南太重要了因為對行政院來講各部會發生的困難跟剛剛委員所說的台南市我們有更多行政院院本部更多我們十二三億的預算甚至還有五億是被凍結住的我覺得今天沒有錢就沒辦法做事了台南市災區"},{"start":357.915,"end":386.912,"text":"我們看到每個人的一個災況真的內心充滿一些無奈所以我們風災特別條例我們就用協商的方式讓他趕快通過所以我們就有這一個所謂的風災特別條例可以有600億的特別預算來協助我們這些災區所以這就是很好的一個典範所以我們希望這個一般補助款也可以比照辦理"},{"start":387.532,"end":407.37,"text":"那我也要另外再問院長其實在這一次風災的特別條例有一個很重要的裡面有我們的一些環境設施的一個處理所以院長你知道這一次台南石棉瓦的影響非常的大是"},{"start":408.103,"end":434.096,"text":"但是現在必須跟院長報告石棉瓦的部分我們的災區住戶家戶有處理然後畜牧場有處理可是現在我們的工廠是沒處理的可是工廠這一次我們補助非常少而且在我們石棉瓦的處理"},{"start":435.031,"end":453.231,"text":"也沒有任何的幫助與協助這個院長我真的要替我們所有台南的鄉親請命一下石棉瓦是有毒而且不好處理如果沒有我們政府全權來處理可能會造成二次傷害"},{"start":454.45,"end":478.753,"text":"報告委員這是我們幾個預算當中有關於石棉瓦的處理總合加起來應該有13億那據環境部所稱這13億他應該可以就目前看到的問題不可能全部啦因為太多了目前看到問題來解決就在災區其實我們就設限在災區其實重點是我們要怎麼協助他們因為石棉瓦非常的特別"},{"start":479.494,"end":498.131,"text":"他是有毒而且過去我們要求他們要處理大家沒辦法處理而且處理的積極度不高剛好在這一次風災不得不處理的狀態之下我們鼓勵大家那我們要鼓勵大家就是政府要帶頭來協助大家"},{"start":498.812,"end":524.131,"text":"所以這個部分再拜託從我們的家戶再到我們的畜牧再到我們的工廠中小企業災區的部分真正毀損的因為他必須要報災情所以真的有災情依照這個災情去做相對處理這個要拜託院長有環境部已經有核定相關的預算會來逐步來就目前看到的問題來解決"},{"start":525.049,"end":542.69,"text":"然後另外一個部分就是我們這一次台南市我們的環保局為了處理這一次的風災整個處理廢棄物我們的機具都是用勞過多了你懂我的意思嗎已經炒到壞了"},{"start":544.091,"end":572.014,"text":"所以我覺得是不是可以在這個部分我們環境部可以協助來補助我們這些設備就是我們這些機具沒機具你沒辦法處理 有人也沒辦法所以這個部分也請我們院長來從旁協助跟我們環境部提醒一下我們真的是 已經都炒得比較香了大家相信人間沒機具是沒辦法的所以這個部分再拜託"},{"start":572.854,"end":596.71,"text":"我請相關部會來維持各縣市應該有的基本能力再拜託那院長還有另外一個就是一萬塊的部分其實我們現在已經送了修正草案過來對不對那修正草案這裡面其實有三點比較不同的跟我們的三讀我們必須修正的就是強化電力系統這個一定要"},{"start":597.959,"end":622.149,"text":"這台電是在毀損太多了已經超越原來的電纜韌性的各個工作範圍跟預算我們真的要拜託所有在野黨的朋友你如果沒有去看到災區請你去災區看一下你可以看到整個電條多了了這個如果沒有從韌性再加強沒有給台電一個力量"},{"start":623.22,"end":652.089,"text":"他沒有辦法加強我們的韌性所以這個是我們在修法我們的特別條例韌性特別條例裡面的修法之一第二個就是把我們的修法因為一萬塊的部分然後把他的金額上限提高到5900億元我們三讀是5400億元我們現在是5900億元所以為什麼會多這些數額"},{"start":653.649,"end":673.495,"text":"院長為什麼會多這些數就是電力的部分增加200億那我們預備第二期如果有需要之後我們再提出第二期的特別預算200億另外就是普發現金還是不夠我們增加了10億所以這是有所本嘛在這個低收中低收入的弱勢族群我們增加了40億"},{"start":674.555,"end":694.912,"text":"所以這是有所本嘛因為我們就是在低收入戶跟中低收入戶的部分我們多一萬元對不對我們計算的方式不是一萬是逐月或是怎麼樣是逐月好那就是在中低收入或低收入我們多了40億所以我們多了這些錢是有所本的"},{"start":696.493,"end":722.733,"text":"不是突然之间蹦上去是有所本的而且我还看到你一条我们原本的三组条例是说10月31号可是这里面你们所修正的是说如果这个特别条例特别预算公布之后的一个月内你们就要开始执行发放作业对不对如果我们赶快一样拜托韩院长"},{"start":723.593,"end":741.45,"text":"這個都要拜託你趕快召集朝野協商趕快讓他通過不要再有政治考量就是趕快通過那麼我覺得會比10月31號還快10月31號執行完畢那個有困難人民什麼時候來領取或者什麼程序"},{"start":741.97,"end":770.549,"text":"只要我們一開始就給人民有充分而且一定保障權利的時間沒錯 就是發放的那個點一定會在10月31日以前嘛如果韓院長趕快召集朝野協商趕快訂案趕快我們一個月內就會開始執行發放對不對那麼就是七個月因為本來就有我要領跟不要領那是人民的意願嘛你不能逼他說你沒來領"},{"start":771.926,"end":791.247,"text":"我要怎麼樣不行嘛所以我們定了七個月內要發放完畢嘛這是一個人性嘛對不對但是我們非常負責任的是如果特別條例通過了我就是一個月內開始執行發放對不對所以現在我們可以有把握的時間點"},{"start":792.048,"end":808.97,"text":"所以時間這個特別條例 越早修正完成那我相信我們可以讓人民越快能夠領到這一萬元然後低收入戶跟中低收入戶會有額外的一個處理方式 對不對"},{"start":810.29,"end":834.559,"text":"這個時間點也是財政部來跟我說明他們說照過去的經驗他們已經事先可以提早做一些準備工作了所以這個部分也是要拜託韓院長趕快召集朝野協商這個沒有爭議呀這哪有爭議是電力有爭議嗎拜託來我們再去看一下倒了2000多支的電感"},{"start":835.868,"end":863.342,"text":"你看了你一定不可能擋預算再來就是我們的預算的部分都是有鎖本對不對 增加的這個幅度都是有鎖本的經濟弱勢者以及我們預留的第二期第二期如果沒有用到那就為大家省了200億如果真的有需要我們就馬上提出按預算程序來辦理所以這都有鎖本所以我覺得無論是剛剛的"},{"start":865.267,"end":892.129,"text":"追加預算還是我們的特別條例任性特別條例的修正我覺得這兩個案子都沒有爭議趕快韓院長召集朝野協商用最快速的速度通過之後讓人民有感這才是最重要的而不要再政治口水政治鬥爭我覺得這個對人民一點幫助都沒有"},{"start":893.041,"end":918.914,"text":"院長你認為呢我們共同謝謝韓院長韓院長 拜託拜託你我們的希望在你身上請你召集朝野協商 一般補助還有我們的任性特別條例請你趕快協商 趕快通過我們就可以讓所有台灣人民感受到我們政府的力量好不好我覺得我越來越重要了 謝謝"},{"start":919.693,"end":926.06,"text":"沒有 院長本來就很重要了啊好不好 趕快朝野協商我們真的要拜託韓院長謝謝 謝謝卓院長 謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝韓院長謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":258,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（15時33分）謝謝院長，我們是不是請卓院長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好！"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，我剛剛聽了很多委員的質詢，發現大家好像都失憶了，就是為什麼我們會刪一般性補助款，行政院為什麼會刪？為什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是酌刪一般性補助款25%左右，因為……"],["陳委員亭妃：為什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為整個中央政府總預算在今年的審查過程當中被刪減2,076億，其中要我們自行刪減636億，行政院已經無法在1,439億之外，再自行刪減636億，我們為了讓地方與中央共同度過這個難關，所以採用這樣平均分配的方式。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以是因為國民黨、在野黨刪了行政院的預算，還要我們自行調整，我們已經沒有辦法再調整了，所以不得不這樣做？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們也很反抗啊！因為所有的縣市都有，不論是國民黨執政的、民進黨執政的，全部都刪。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：臺南市被刪了51億，我告訴你這51億對我們臺南來講造成多大的困難，我們目前必須控管各單位預算30%，而且人員遇缺不補，現在人非常重要，沒有人怎麼做事？我們卻必須控管，遇缺不補。還有沒有發包的工程，農水路重不重要？很重要啊！區域排水整治及改善工程重不重要？很重要！現在極端氣候，對我們來講，治水非常重要。還有新闢道路、全民運動館、老舊工業區更新改善工程，以及市場新整建的工程等等，這些都暫緩、不發包，這是黃偉哲市長直接對外說明的，因為我們被刪減了51億。我想對於每一個縣市都一樣。還有我們活動補助先控管40%，還有因為我們要有配合款，其他有可能受到重大影響的是鐵路地下化、臺南捷運藍線等等，這些建設對於臺南非常非常重大。","為什麼現在大家本末倒置？為什麼不先說因，才有這個果？所以現在行政院也做了補救，我們再追加預算，要把這636億補回來，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：那就看在野黨的態度啊！你們是在打真球還是打假球嘛？你們口口聲聲說，為了各縣市的地方建設，這個一般補助款不能刪，把行政院罵到臭頭，行政院現在已經要追加預算把它追回來，那就看你在野黨的態度啊！我覺得如果今天大家認為這很重要，我認為很重要，我全力支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我也希望大院能夠通力來支持這樣的追加預算，我們就能夠全數如期的讓地方不會發生這樣的困窘。"],["陳委員亭妃：是嘛！而且速度要快，根本不用審啊！請我們韓院長召集朝野協商，因為行政院上個禮拜送進來了，請朝野協商趕快開會討論、協商處理，有什麼問題很快就可以處理啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝韓院長，韓院長召集的這幾次協商，效率跟內容都相當的好，我們認為這是一個良好的互動模式。"],["陳委員亭妃：對嘛！所以這一次的追加預算也可以比照辦理啊！根本不用再進入到審查，因為這個真的是及時雨，今年現在已經8月了，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果再拖下去，可能無法成為及時雨，所以我要拜託兩位院長，卓院長還有韓院長，我們拜託韓院長是不是儘快召開朝野協商？大家如果認為一般補助款很重要，那拜託大家摒棄所有的成見，為了我們這個國家好，為了地方的建設好，就把636億趕快通過，我相信這才是我們臺灣人民之福，所以拜託韓院長，也拜託卓院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會儘快完成行政院內部的程序，然後送交大院來審議，我也知道韓院長已經有預定相當好的時間要進行各項協商，預計下禮拜我們會有進一步的進展。"],["陳委員亭妃：真的要拜託兩位院長，這個對我們臺南太重要了。"],["卓院長榮泰：因為對行政院來講，各部會發生的困難，跟剛剛委員所說的臺南市相比，我們有更多、行政院院本部更多，我們十二、三億的預算，甚至還有5億是被凍結住的。"],["陳委員亭妃：我覺得今天沒有錢就沒辦法做事啦！臺南是災區，我們看到每個人的災況，真的內心充滿無奈，所以風災特別條例我們就用協商的方式讓它趕快通過，因此我們就有這一個風災特別條例，可以有600億的特別預算來協助這些災區，這就是很好的典範，所以我們希望這個一般補助款也可以比照辦理。","我也要另外再問院長，其實在這一次風災特別條例中，有一個很重要的，裡面有一些環境設施的處理，院長知道這次臺南石綿瓦的影響非常大？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：但是我現在必須跟院長報告，石綿瓦的部分，在我們的災區，住戶、家戶有處理，然後畜牧場有處理，但工廠是沒處理的，可是這一次我們補助工廠非常少，而且對石綿瓦的處理也沒有任何的幫助與協助。院長，我真的要替所有的臺南鄉親請命一下，石綿瓦有毒而且不好處理，如果沒有政府全權來處理，可能會造成二次傷害。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這次我們幾個預算當中，有關於石綿瓦的處理，總和加起來應該有13億，據環境部所稱，這13億應該可以就目前看到的問題……不可能全部，因為太多了，但可以就目前看到問題來解決。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，就在災區，其實我們就設限在災區，重點是我們要怎麼協助他們，因為石綿瓦非常特別，它是有毒的，而且過去我們要求他們要處理，大家沒辦法處理，而且處理的積極度不高。剛好在這次風災不得不處理的狀態之下，我們鼓勵大家，既然要鼓勵大家，就是政府要帶頭來協助大家，所以這個部分再拜託，從我們的家戶再到畜牧再到工廠、中小企業，災區的部分真正毀損的，因為他必須要報災情，所以真的有災情的，依照這個災情去做相對處理，這個要拜託院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：有，環境部已經有核定相關預算，會就目前看到的問題逐步來解決。"],["陳委員亭妃：另外一個部分就是，臺南市環保局為了處理這次風災的廢棄物，我們的機具都是用勞過多了，你懂我的意思嗎？已經操到壞掉了！所以在這個部分，環境部可不可以來協助補助這些設備？就是我們這些機具，因為沒有機具就沒辦法處理，即使有人也沒辦法，所以這個部分也請院長從旁來協助，跟環境部提醒一下，真的是已經都操到壞掉了，即使有人力，但沒機具也是沒辦法，所以這個部分再拜託！"],["卓院長榮泰：我請相關部會來維持各縣市應該有的基本能力。"],["陳委員亭妃：再拜託！院長，還有另外一個，就是一萬塊的部分，其實你們現在已經送了修正草案過來，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：修正草案裡面有三點跟三讀通過的內容比較不同，這是我們必須修正的，首先就是強化電力系統，這個一定要。"],["卓院長榮泰：這次台電實在毀損太多了，已經超越原來電纜韌性的工作範圍跟預算。"],["陳委員亭妃：真的，我們真的要拜託所有在野黨的朋友，你如果沒有看到災區的狀況，請你去災區看一下，你可以看到整排電桿倒光光，這個如果沒有從韌性再加強，沒有給台電一個力量，就沒有辦法加強我們的韌性，所以這個是我們在韌性特別條例裡面的修法之一。","第二個就是一萬塊的部分，然後把金額上限提高到5,900億元，我們三讀通過的是5,400億元，現在要修正為5,900億元，為什麼會多這些數額？院長，為什麼會多這些數額？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是電力的部分增加200億，我們預備第2期如果有需要的時候，我們再提出第2期的特別預算200億。另外，普發現金還是不夠，我們增加了10億……"],["陳委員亭妃：所以這是有所本嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：另外，在低收、中低收入的弱勢族群，我們增加了40億，所以加起來是450億元。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以這是有所本嘛？因為我們就是在低收入戶跟中低收入戶多1萬元，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們計算的方式不是1萬，是逐月或是怎麼樣來發放。"],["陳委員亭妃：是逐月？好，那就是在中低收入戶或低收入戶多了40億，所以我們多了這些錢是有所本的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：不是突然之間蹦上去，是有所本的。而且我還看到一條，原本的三讀條例是說10月31號，可是你們所修正的是說，在這個特別條例、特別預算公布之後的一個月內，你們就要開始執行發放作業，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果我們趕快一樣拜託韓院長，這個都要拜託你趕快召集朝野協商，趕快讓它通過，不要再有政治考量，就是趕快通過，那麼我覺得會比10月31號還快，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：10月31號是執行完畢，那個有困難，人民什麼時候來領取或是透過什麼程序，只要我們一開始就給人民有充分而且一定保障權利的時間，讓大家……"],["陳委員亭妃：沒錯！就是發放的那個點一定會在10月31號以前，如果韓院長趕快召集朝野協商、趕快定案，我們一個月內就會趕快開始執行發放，對不對？那麼就是七個月，因為本來就有要領跟不要領，那是人民的意願，你不能逼他沒來領就要怎麼樣，不行嘛！所以我們訂了七個月內要發放完畢，這是一個人性考量，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：但我們非常負責任的是，如果特別條例通過了，就是一個月內開始執行發放，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是現在我們可以有把握的時間點。"],["陳委員亭妃：只要這個特別條例越早修正完成，我相信我們就可以讓人民越快能夠領到這1萬元，然後低收入戶跟中低收入戶會有額外的處理方式，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個時間點也是財政部來跟我說明，他們說照過去的經驗，他們已經事先可以提早做一些準備工作了。"],["陳委員亭妃：對嘛！所以這個部分也要拜託韓院長趕快召集朝野協商。這個沒有爭議呀！這個哪有爭議？是電力有爭議嗎？拜託來我們災區看一下，倒了兩千多支的電桿，你看了一定不可能擋預算。再來就是預算的部分都是有所本，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們對……"],["陳委員亭妃：增加的幅度都是有所本的。"],["卓院長榮泰：經濟弱勢者以及我們預留了第2期，第2期如果沒有用到，那就為大家省了200億；如果有真的有需要，我們就馬上提出，按預算程序來辦理。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以這都有所本。無論是剛剛說的追加預算，還是韌性特別條例的修正，我覺得這兩個案子都沒有爭議。請韓院長趕快召集朝野協商，用最快的速度通過之後，讓人民有感，這才是最重要的，而不要再政治口水、政治鬥爭，我覺得這個對人民一點幫助都沒有。院長，你認為呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們共同謝謝韓院長。"],["陳委員亭妃：韓院長，拜託！拜託你，我們的希望在你身上，請你召集朝野協商，包括一般補助還有韌性特別條例，請你趕快協商、趕快通過。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們就可以讓所有臺灣人民感受到政府的力量，好不好？"],["主席：我覺得我越來越重要了，謝謝。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有，院長本來就很重要，好不好？"],["主席：好，謝謝。我儘量、我儘量。"],["陳委員亭妃：趕快朝野協商，我們真的要拜託韓院長，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝陳委員，謝謝韓院長。"],["主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員，也謝謝卓院長備詢。謝謝。","接下來休息10分鐘，之後請盧縣一委員準備質詢。","現在休息。","休息（15時49分）","繼續開會（16時1分）"],["主席：報告院會，我們繼續開會。","接下來請盧縣一委員質詢，徐欣瑩委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳昭姿","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","黃國昌","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","陳亭妃","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","張雅琳","賴惠員","王正旭","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2025-08-19"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00004","1147101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費\n等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}