{"error":false,"id":["163561"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163561,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163561","日期":"2025-08-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-3-25","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期第25次會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":25,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第3會期第25次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-08-19T17:04:52+08:00","結束時間":"2025-08-19T17:20:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/906c3280ae286f11ac834821076f15d618ad07c9952a2a5359ecb5ed36d749953c4597e45d0cb6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"17:04:52 - 17:20:19","會議時間":"2025-08-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.3553437500000003,"end":5.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.122843750000001,"end":7.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.181593750000001,"end":9.818468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.86346875,"end":19.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.90971875,"end":19.926593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.926593750000002,"end":21.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.96034375,"end":27.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.52909375,"end":25.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.043468750000002,"end":30.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.11096875,"end":29.511593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.97971875,"end":33.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.77659375,"end":35.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.31221875,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.05034375,"end":40.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.91909375,"end":41.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.42096875,"end":44.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.61471875,"end":45.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.049093750000004,"end":52.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.63034375,"end":55.971593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.29659375000001,"end":56.039093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.275343750000005,"end":59.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.447843750000004,"end":59.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.46471875,"end":61.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.02971875,"end":63.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.03784375000001,"end":64.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.93221875,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.97409375000001,"end":69.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.94409375000001,"end":78.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.78659375000001,"end":79.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.73159375,"end":81.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.50346875000001,"end":82.38096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.20784375000001,"end":83.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.37221875,"end":88.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.19846875,"end":90.17721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.68346875,"end":94.17659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.59846875000001,"end":98.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.22221875000001,"end":107.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.53721875000001,"end":111.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.76034375,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.89534375000001,"end":112.72221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.17784375000001,"end":115.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.79346875,"end":118.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.69596875,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.49221875,"end":127.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.92659375000001,"end":130.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.49159375000002,"end":131.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.68971875,"end":134.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.76096875000002,"end":135.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.28409375,"end":139.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.58721875,"end":150.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.18034375000002,"end":152.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.86346875,"end":154.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.58909375000002,"end":156.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.51284375,"end":158.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.65596875,"end":159.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.09034375000002,"end":162.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.85784375,"end":164.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.52409375000002,"end":166.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.72221875000002,"end":169.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.08471875,"end":171.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.73409375,"end":172.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.43846875,"end":174.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.56471875,"end":176.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.69534375,"end":177.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.10034375,"end":180.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.16784375,"end":178.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.36159375,"end":180.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.67784375000002,"end":188.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.29284375,"end":191.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.22846875000002,"end":195.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.01284375,"end":197.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.99159375000002,"end":199.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.48909375000002,"end":202.14284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.49721875,"end":203.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.62346875,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.67784375000002,"end":209.75346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.44534375,"end":211.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.43659375000001,"end":213.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.78659375,"end":215.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.26721875,"end":216.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.19534375,"end":220.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.02596875,"end":224.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.33346875,"end":225.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.51471875000001,"end":228.70409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.39596875,"end":229.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.12159375000002,"end":230.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.45471875,"end":233.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.88909375,"end":238.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.64784375000002,"end":239.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.33096875,"end":242.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.81159375000001,"end":244.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.16159375,"end":244.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.95471875,"end":246.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.52409375000002,"end":249.39284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.51096875000002,"end":250.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.60346875000002,"end":252.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.24034375000002,"end":254.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.13034375,"end":258.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.78409375,"end":259.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.70346875,"end":263.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.48784375,"end":264.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.85471875,"end":264.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.17534375,"end":264.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.96846875,"end":265.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.03596875,"end":265.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.30596875000003,"end":269.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.95534375,"end":268.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.27159375,"end":275.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.56596875,"end":277.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.14784375,"end":279.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.01659375,"end":283.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.44659375000003,"end":284.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.13409375000003,"end":286.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.12534375,"end":290.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.85471875,"end":292.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.37346875000003,"end":293.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.57596875,"end":294.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.02721875000003,"end":298.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.38096875,"end":301.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.18221875,"end":301.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.28346875,"end":301.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.16096875,"end":304.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.92846875000004,"end":306.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.72971875,"end":308.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.31596875,"end":310.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.27346875,"end":312.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.19721875000005,"end":314.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.51346875,"end":316.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.80846875000003,"end":317.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.31471875,"end":317.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.95596875,"end":319.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.91346875,"end":320.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.57159375000003,"end":322.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.83284375,"end":325.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.26284375,"end":326.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.64659375,"end":326.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.66346875,"end":327.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.06846875,"end":328.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.68846875,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.02596875,"end":329.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.40971875,"end":332.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.57409375000003,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.75534375,"end":334.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.93221875,"end":337.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.81784375,"end":339.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.99909375000004,"end":339.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.26909375,"end":343.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.57221875000005,"end":343.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.02784375000005,"end":346.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.82096875,"end":348.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.50409375000004,"end":351.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.14471875000004,"end":355.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.24534375,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.59096875,"end":358.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.38409375000003,"end":362.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.26534375,"end":372.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.36659375000005,"end":364.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.08284375000005,"end":371.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.85034375000004,"end":380.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.54534375000003,"end":383.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.70534375,"end":383.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.97096875,"end":386.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.90721875,"end":387.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.08846875,"end":388.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.10534375000003,"end":393.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.12221875,"end":389.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.10034375000004,"end":395.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.84659375,"end":397.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.03221875,"end":399.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.32721875000004,"end":405.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.44909375000003,"end":403.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.11534375,"end":406.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.43159375000005,"end":409.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.55346875000004,"end":412.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.96221875000003,"end":413.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.04659375,"end":413.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.97471875,"end":416.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.35409375,"end":420.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.43784375,"end":422.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.07909375,"end":422.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.32346875,"end":426.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.56346875,"end":427.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.69846875,"end":426.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.94721875000005,"end":428.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.84159375,"end":429.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.93846875,"end":432.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.05221875,"end":431.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.86221875,"end":435.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.74346875000003,"end":436.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.87846875,"end":437.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.73471875,"end":441.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.70471875000004,"end":443.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.27409375,"end":442.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.45971875000004,"end":442.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.67909375000005,"end":444.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.04159375,"end":446.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.12596875,"end":446.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.62784375,"end":446.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.26909375,"end":447.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.89346875,"end":449.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.42034375000003,"end":452.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.70284375000006,"end":453.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.96409375,"end":456.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.10721875,"end":458.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.16596875000005,"end":459.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.53721875,"end":460.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.49909375000004,"end":461.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.19096875,"end":461.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.37659375000004,"end":461.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.44409375000004,"end":461.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.38909375000003,"end":464.54909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.78534375000004,"end":465.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.03409375,"end":468.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.02096875,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.13034375,"end":471.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.82221875000005,"end":477.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.27721875000003,"end":480.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.03596875000005,"end":482.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.50409375000004,"end":484.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.00596875,"end":484.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.25471875000005,"end":487.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.88721875000005,"end":489.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.30471875,"end":490.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.48596875000004,"end":491.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.32971875000004,"end":495.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.37971875000005,"end":497.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.18971875000005,"end":497.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.96159375,"end":501.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.21846875000006,"end":504.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.93096875000003,"end":506.24721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.24721875000006,"end":508.87971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.26409375000003,"end":506.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.01471875000004,"end":509.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.89221875000004,"end":511.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.90034375000005,"end":513.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.56659375,"end":518.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.05534375,"end":520.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.6372187500001,"end":526.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.8515937500001,"end":528.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.10409375,"end":533.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.47909375,"end":535.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.2509687500001,"end":537.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.14096875,"end":539.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.60909375,"end":541.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.51596875,"end":543.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.67159375,"end":545.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.1397187499999,"end":547.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.74284375,"end":549.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.70471875,"end":552.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.8897187499999,"end":553.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.7922187500001,"end":561.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.4409687500001,"end":564.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.5334687500001,"end":565.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.0522187500001,"end":566.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.13221875,"end":569.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.4990937499999,"end":573.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.88221875,"end":575.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.85659375,"end":576.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.1303437500001,"end":580.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.1553437499999,"end":581.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.17221875,"end":583.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.22284375,"end":581.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.87659375,"end":585.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.42909375,"end":586.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.3359687500001,"end":587.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.7534687500001,"end":590.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.1453437499999,"end":591.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.49971875,"end":593.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.3559687500001,"end":594.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.3472187500001,"end":598.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.3172187499999,"end":600.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.71346875,"end":602.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.9409687500001,"end":604.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.42596875,"end":606.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.2990937500001,"end":612.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.90596875,"end":612.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.3234687500001,"end":612.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.6103437500001,"end":614.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.7240937500001,"end":615.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.90096875,"end":619.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.03159375,"end":618.2803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.5672187499999,"end":632.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.4015937500001,"end":625.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.51534375,"end":626.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.23159375,"end":635.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.33659375,"end":639.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.54284375,"end":640.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.99409375,"end":641.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.05284375,"end":643.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.89221875,"end":645.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.46159375,"end":647.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.7609687500001,"end":648.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.6003437500001,"end":651.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.91221875,"end":654.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.4897187500001,"end":656.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.70034375,"end":658.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.3372187500001,"end":659.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.53534375,"end":661.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.3115937500002,"end":661.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.8472187500001,"end":663.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.2140937500001,"end":664.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.41221875,"end":666.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.52596875,"end":668.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.36534375,"end":671.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.17909375,"end":674.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.40221875,"end":676.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.27534375,"end":679.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.41034375,"end":685.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.6115937500001,"end":688.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.51409375,"end":689.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.91471875,"end":694.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.69034375,"end":694.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.7240937500001,"end":701.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.72284375,"end":703.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.37659375,"end":705.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.6928437500001,"end":706.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.7265937500001,"end":707.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.9922187500001,"end":711.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.49409375,"end":709.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.29971875,"end":712.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.54409375,"end":714.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.4340937500001,"end":715.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.17221875,"end":718.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.90596875,"end":720.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.94784375,"end":722.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.8715937500001,"end":724.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.21721875,"end":734.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.9540937500001,"end":737.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.3672187500001,"end":738.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.4640937500001,"end":738.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.98721875,"end":742.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.90221875,"end":743.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.2859687499999,"end":745.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.2434687500001,"end":748.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.1459687500001,"end":751.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.2890937500001,"end":752.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.87534375,"end":754.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.6428437500001,"end":756.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.99284375,"end":757.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.10659375,"end":758.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.64659375,"end":759.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.23721875,"end":760.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.09346875,"end":762.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.15221875,"end":764.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.00846875,"end":769.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.63221875,"end":771.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.3703437500001,"end":772.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.1084687500002,"end":774.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.4540937500001,"end":777.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.36096875,"end":780.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":781.34346875,"end":782.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.9297187500001,"end":783.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.3640937499999,"end":786.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.54096875,"end":787.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.63784375,"end":788.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.9709687500001,"end":789.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.91596875,"end":791.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":791.5190937500001,"end":792.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.14346875,"end":793.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":793.99971875,"end":794.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":794.82659375,"end":797.0203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.34096875,"end":798.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.56846875,"end":800.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":800.9015937500001,"end":801.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.3190937500001,"end":803.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.39909375,"end":804.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":804.90096875,"end":806.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.2509687500001,"end":807.3647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.63471875,"end":808.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.0690937500001,"end":809.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.45284375,"end":812.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.06846875,"end":813.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.35534375,"end":817.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":816.9497187500001,"end":820.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":820.56096875,"end":822.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":822.4509687500001,"end":823.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.7334687500002,"end":825.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.60659375,"end":826.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":827.0578437500001,"end":828.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.9140937500001,"end":831.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.1203437500001,"end":839.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.51159375,"end":840.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":840.54096875,"end":842.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":843.29159375,"end":845.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.4097187500001,"end":844.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.47284375,"end":847.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":848.8603437500001,"end":850.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":850.8684687500001,"end":854.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":851.8640937500002,"end":853.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.73284375,"end":859.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":860.36909375,"end":866.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":867.40596875,"end":869.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.21159375,"end":871.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.62471875,"end":873.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":873.98721875,"end":874.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.08846875,"end":875.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":874.69596875,"end":875.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.8772187500001,"end":875.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.97846875,"end":876.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":876.11346875,"end":877.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.1597187500001,"end":881.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":881.44596875,"end":885.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":885.1584687500001,"end":885.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.18784375,"end":889.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.00159375,"end":890.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.3728437500001,"end":893.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":892.53284375,"end":892.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.3259687500001,"end":899.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":899.6203437500001,"end":901.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":901.93221875,"end":903.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":903.8897187500002,"end":910.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.03721875,"end":905.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":907.5178437500001,"end":909.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":909.3572187500001,"end":913.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":913.93034375,"end":914.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.43221875,"end":915.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.46596875,"end":915.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.48284375,"end":915.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.6853437500001,"end":915.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":915.9384687500001,"end":916.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":916.5459687500002,"end":918.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":918.30096875,"end":919.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.83659375,"end":921.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":921.52409375,"end":922.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":923.3972187500001,"end":923.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.89471875,"end":927.43034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.736,"end":28.596,"text":"謝謝主席韓院長以及各位先進有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢院長你好辛苦了我是最後一位希望你可以心情放輕鬆一點不過一開始我要跟你講韓院長的話你要多聽"},{"start":55.625,"end":59.168,"text":"謝謝賴委員韓院長之間有很多故事只有我們兩個人知道"},{"start":59.808,"end":82.268,"text":"這樣子喔 你們秘密不能講得對喔Just between you and him來 我們來看喔 追加預算 還要講咖哩一波你們的處計長來找我 我會跟他這樣講結果後來你就不要 因為大半門來啊開始燒了 開始抹黑喔來 但是那個都翻篇了啦 翻篇了啦"},{"start":83.257,"end":106.682,"text":"我們看到,追加預算不要等於趁火打劫啦!左院長啊,你跨界金事務部怎麼會做這種事呢?我們總共散減2075億扣掉台電的1070億,那個不算那個要另外轉換來處理,1000億不算我們就總的來講的話,就算多少?1075億"},{"start":108.802,"end":134.053,"text":"這一次追加預算 如果通通給你 百分之百都給你 878給你我們只剩下197億喔197億是什麼概念 你編的預算3.1兆所以三減的幅度是0.63%過去五年來 過去十年來 最少1%起跳還是跟老柯 大家是在那裡談 bargain"},{"start":135.394,"end":152.835,"text":"大家談說太寬一個大概數字就是1%左右山簡的弧度他1%左右結果你這樣來講你可不可以拍誰我們山里這樣子你把你拿回來更多來我們來看哪幾個部門臉皮厚的第一個行政院"},{"start":153.902,"end":174.02,"text":"你們多拿回來就追加的比3減的還多31億外交部多了7億1000萬海洋委員會多了4.2億海洋委員會或許有他說我要增加什麼海防我覺得可以另外考慮說不定但是你增加31億議員長啊"},{"start":177.081,"end":190.752,"text":"趁火打劫啊 院長報告委員 下週有正式的議程 我們會一一詳列那今天我們只針對這個部分來做回答沒有 我先跟你講啊 你現在來講0.63來我們再看第二頁齁這裡面打灌水的"},{"start":197.262,"end":215.284,"text":"現在喔 我是用最寬鬆的角度跟你講的其實我們不同 不少委員還反對636給你喔那我是站在 我還是引用韓院長問政啊 用愛心問政愛心來問政啊你現在這個事情啊 你砍636是非常不對的"},{"start":217.255,"end":231.923,"text":"因為前面多少委員跟你講這是法律之初法定之初三讀通過你要砍他哪裡有道理但是因為我看韓院長說愛心這個我勉強我個人我不代表"},{"start":232.924,"end":253.371,"text":"一句話 7878或者733 我們願意跟大院合理的來討論來來來 我先跟你講喔 進法補償將近24億 這個應該給你再來人事費 因為加薪了 這段時間要加薪 軍人加薪了 62億給你公投11億要給"},{"start":255.205,"end":279.313,"text":"老實講你們已經用第二億北京了罷罷免的四億為什麼罷免 那是公民團體發起的第二億北京這個公投是立法院發起的我們應該是以公民為大吧那十億也不要沒關係 如果你不要十億也沒關係所以你灌水的145億我現在就正式跟你說我聽到的消息是什麼"},{"start":281.229,"end":306.334,"text":"行政院 拜託各部會 他沒有需要你拜託給你點 給你點 給你點你要求他們 大家來搶這個預算趁機卡有啊哪一個部會跟委員這麼講如果委員敢講出來 我馬上處分我當然有 我當然不要講 我怎麼可以講就是為什麼灌水 你灌水145億你灌水145億"},{"start":307.794,"end":329.493,"text":"除了這幾個我已經用最寬鬆的 因為剛才那個委員問中完了就告訴我說630億 6億不能給因為630億不能給因為你砍的地方的錢沒有道理我說我們寧願寬鬆一點大家爭取這個我個人 我代表個人 不代表黨黨"},{"start":330.469,"end":348.967,"text":"我覺得這可以給那請委員支持 讓你去影響其他的委員但是你的145億不能給總統我們增加幾千萬幹什麼我就說是878億或是733億我們都可以合理的來討論我們願意就是再創造一個我是說我們願意創造一個合理討論的空間跟時機不要討價還價 來來來我們就看下一頁"},{"start":356.391,"end":361.137,"text":"你這裡面更扯的是什麼媒體廣宣還要增加4.3億"},{"start":363.356,"end":392.603,"text":"幹扯啊 沒有最扯就更扯啊你增加4.3億啊 這幹什麼呢過去我們都沒有啦不是過去我們沒有做什麼事這半年以來我們完全沒有行政院沒有媒體政策宣導的會員我們完全沒有啦行政院的部分我們的發言系統完全沒有相關的經費除了人事費之外都沒有經費"},{"start":396.845,"end":399.966,"text":"那不是發言系統出來罵人那是我們回應媒體的詢問"},{"start":423.337,"end":440.806,"text":"你回應來講對在野黨就是罵人啊 這樣啊所以 被罵是應該的因為你權力 當然啦你權力大啊 當然要虛心接受你權力怎麼大 當然要接受監督啊接受批評啊你權力這麼大 當然要接受監督啊我告訴你喔 不不不 等一下等一下"},{"start":451.465,"end":469.951,"text":"我現在告訴你我們最佳預算我們算已經盡力了財委會我下禮拜會排最佳預算我會排進來可是真的到最後通過要到什麼時候10月底11月左右才能夠最後三度這個預算要這麼長的時間因為"},{"start":471.892,"end":500.687,"text":"我相信韓院長有安排議程的時間跟他的安排的方向韓院長也要經過我們這裡啦 一樣啦我們委員會還是要走一下啦這個救災的我們會安排很快的 讓他到下禮拜去三讀但是追加錢 追加預算沒辦法這麼快我希望就災後 旦那是颱風的以及任性的產業支持這兩部分這兩個一定要趕快救災的 只有救災的我講捏底捏底"},{"start":501.614,"end":528.333,"text":"產業支持也很重要委員你對產業界那麼了解是是是關於後關稅時代的產業支持非常重要你要跟立法院要錢要趕快送來這個你要講任性你現在把它插出去講任性我就跟你講任性我們通過了4500億你為什麼不執行呢你執行趕快預算送來就給你過了你要趕快修正修正來我們看下一頁"},{"start":531.175,"end":550.368,"text":"就是你要跟修正到5900億修正到5900億不知道為什麼要修正差了多少 差了450億為什麼要搞這個東西然後把他們拖 我研究很久因為我們對弱勢要加強而且如果真的是發1萬塊 2350億是不夠所以要加10億"},{"start":555.814,"end":575.739,"text":"另外有對台電那麼辛苦的修復很多的電網韌性已經超乎原來的計畫之外的損這麼多所以希望加強這部分200億另外編列第二期200億你需要的時候我們再送來你不要扯那麼遠啦我來跟你講一個比較 我想要談的軍公教的挑釁你們態度怎麼樣"},{"start":579.361,"end":607.188,"text":"軍公教調薪他都有固定的時間像最近我知道最近有在開一些相關的會議我們要考慮到說現在這個時機軍公教調薪對產業界會發生什麼影響我們希望民間也調薪嘛對不對軍公教調薪最重要希望民間也調薪民間調薪的結果對現在的中小微企業會不會造成在"},{"start":607.808,"end":632.5,"text":"後關稅時代更多的壓力我們正在探尋這方面的反應我們還在徵詢當中我們在徵詢當中 我們已經連續兩年都調薪了我跟你講喔 因為你已經回答前面的委員明年度的總預算是根據新的財務法通過了大概就中央撥3700多億給地方政府所以調薪你只要補責166億"},{"start":633.3,"end":656.64,"text":"地方政府自己負擔116億這個很清楚這個漲將算的總共200多億這個漲將一算來講這個卓院長人家都說你大師兄你善於溝通但是我很客觀的老實講我非常客觀的觀察你這一年多來你這個吵架內閣啊"},{"start":657.742,"end":676.497,"text":"你不是溝通內閣啊 吵架然後呢 釋憲然後呢 呼籲我們立法院代表百分之百的民意通過了法案 三路通過法案啪 一個巴掌打過來不夠 釋憲啪 又一個巴掌打過去兩院怎麼會好呢"},{"start":677.317,"end":703.522,"text":"所以難怪人家說要把你換掉一句話而已 通過之前我們如何請立法院重新考量立法院也從來沒有一次在通過這樣的法律之前重新考量過就直接表決我們復譽是被動的而且是依照憲法賦予行政院責任跟權利沒有啦 你們到最後復譽就是為了要累積大罷免的籌碼啦不要忘了我就給你執行倒帶老柯 柯建民"},{"start":704.394,"end":733.994,"text":"我多年來好朋友來來 聽我講不要急大院通過職權刑事法的時候我們根本還沒有到立法院到行政院來你不要急 你不要急喔老柯在去年1月13號選完1月15號他就說了要推動大罷免要改變他差六席要把他贏過來 差六席所有的行政院配合他配合他 所以這個東西老實講 你一實現兩岸的關係就不好 兩院的關係就不好越來越糟 越來越糟 這叫噁心螺旋"},{"start":735.354,"end":754.622,"text":"大家如果彼此諒解對方那就不一樣了這個來講很多事情是可以溝通的你們也不溝通我隨便講總預算的時候我們都知道每次從歷年來協商 院長組織的協商我在這裡二十幾年每一次就跟老柯大家獨宅"},{"start":755.814,"end":770.413,"text":"說來說去 都要協商但是你看 行業長這麼辛苦我都替他捨不得被老柯這樣糟蹋老柯盤古開天開始講起不要跟你協商啊 那就拖時間為什麼 他要累積這個錯分子"},{"start":771.494,"end":798.257,"text":"累積全民累積然後你們開始洗腦透過你們所支持的側翼還有這個剛才有幾個委員提到的給這個給那個來開始修理在內黨累積這個啊今天如果你回來回過來回來你原來大師兄的本分所以不要講話你給我講話一句話就好委員不要一句話來回到你我希望你回到原來大師兄回來善於溝通"},{"start":799.642,"end":826.158,"text":"像你協調的著龍胎而不是受老柯的影響為了要推動大罷免讓你們要一黨獨大 獨採這樣子的話 今天的局面不一樣韓院長早就跟你講了 要追加預算你到今天才提出來委員那你是不是支持我以後我說我們要調整財政支出結構在財化法之後我要調整財政支出結構委員同意嗎"},{"start":827.11,"end":849.597,"text":"這個你看怎麼調整啊第二個我要調整兩院互動模式我真要提的一個案子我本來要審下禮拜 我當召委我要審結果禮拜一要給運匯了沒辦法審就是地方補助款不可以刪所以我第二個我希望調整兩院互動模式委員同意嗎你覺得現在不好是吧"},{"start":851.119,"end":871.227,"text":"兩院互動模式因為你剛剛講了那麼多所以我們不溝通我們吵架所以我們以後來調整兩院互動模式那怎麼調整好不好當然好啊好啊那我們就照這個方向像這兩週韓院長所主持的草野協商進度都非常好方向都是我們共同希望的就照這個兩院互動模式來走下去"},{"start":871.767,"end":889.446,"text":"少一點的全模就可以調整為了國家我沒有用任何全模大家打開天窗說亮話啦823之後會更明顯那個 卓院長啊823對我來講我只負責把公投辦好其他都不是我們"},{"start":890.466,"end":912.555,"text":"投票秩序辦好任何的投票秩序辦好我希望823之後還能看到你來立法院我還希望你能看到你來立法院但是呢 我更希望有一個超然的人來接你的位置823有公投 有罷免我的責任是把秩序辦好結論都不在行政院的考量當中你換一個 兩個 三個 五個 那個不夠"},{"start":913.975,"end":922.63,"text":"你最該被換掉你卓院長應該換掉應該STEP DOWN讓新的人來接我覺得氣溫可以更好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":783,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（17時5分）謝謝主席韓院長以及各位先進。有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：院長，你好，辛苦了。我是最後一位，希望能讓你心情可以放輕鬆一點。但一開始我要跟你講，韓院長的話你要多聽。他很早就告訴你用追加預算，他都教你了，你就不聽！我知道你那時候在想什麼，因為你要為大罷免添柴火，所以不得不如此；搞到最後是25比0，滿臉豆花，這就是不聽韓院長話、不乖乖追加預算的結果。我是很客氣，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝賴委員，我跟韓院長之間有很多故事只有我們兩個人知道。"],["賴委員士葆：這樣子？你們有秘密不能講，just between you and him。我們來看，韓院長教你追加預算這一招，你們的主計長有來找我，我也是跟他這麼講，結果你就是不要，因為大罷免來了，於是開始燒、開始抹黑，但現在那些都翻篇了！","卓院長，追加預算不等於趁火打劫！你看起來很斯文，怎麼能做這種事？我們總共刪減2,075億，扣掉台電的1,000億不算，這要另外專案來處理，所以這1,000億不算，整個來講，我們就刪多少？1,075億。如果這次追加預算通通給你、百分之百給你，給你878億，那麼我們就只刪197億。197億是什麼概念？你編的預算總共是3.1兆，所以刪減的幅度是0.63%。過去五年來、甚至過去十年來，最少都刪1%起跳，這是跟老柯、大家在那裡談、bargain出來的，也就是框一個大概數字1%左右，即刪減幅度大概1%左右。這樣看起來，你都不會覺得不好意思？我們刪你的是這樣，結果你現在想拿回更多？","我們來看哪幾個部門臉皮厚。第一個是行政院，你們多拿回來，就是追加的比刪減的還多31億；外交部多了7.1億；海洋委員會多了4.2億，海洋委員會或許會說要增加海防，我覺得說不定可以另外考慮。但是你增加31億？院長，你想把錢放在哪裡？你是在趁火打劫啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，下週會有正式的議程，屆時我們會一一詳列，今天我們只針對這個部分來做回答，下週會一一詳細。"],["賴委員士葆：我就先跟你講，現在只刪減0.63%。","接著我們再看第二頁，這裡面有大灌水的！我是用最寬鬆的角度跟你講，其實有不少委員反對給你636億，我還是引用韓院長的話，要用愛心問政，用愛心來問政！就這件事來說，你砍636億這件事是非常不對的！前面多少委員跟你講，這是法定支出、三讀通過的，你還砍它？這哪有道理！但是韓院長說愛心問政，所以我個人勉強，但我不代表黨團……"],["卓院長榮泰：我就一句話，不管878或者733，我們都願意跟大院合理來討論。"],["賴委員士葆：來、來，我跟你講，禁伐補償將近24億，這應該給你；再來是人事費，因為這段時間軍人加薪的62億要給你；公投的11億要給，老實講，你們已經動用第二預備金了……"],["卓院長榮泰：罷免的4億為什麼……"],["賴委員士葆：罷免是你們自己搞的，罷免的不給！"],["卓院長榮泰：那是公民團體發起的……"],["賴委員士葆：第二預備金……"],["卓院長榮泰：至於公投是立法院發起的，我們應該以公民為大吧？"],["賴委員士葆：11億不要沒關係，如果你不要11億也沒關係。所以你灌水了145億！我現在正式跟你說我聽到的消息是什麼，聽說行政院拜託各部會，看有沒有需要的，編一點、編一點、編一點，你要求大家來搶預算，趁機卡油！"],["卓院長榮泰：哪一個部會跟委員這麼講？如果委員敢講出來，我馬上處分！"],["賴委員士葆：當然有啊！我當然不要講，我怎麼可以講！"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！"],["賴委員士葆：為什麼你灌水145億？你灌水145億，除了這幾個，我已經用最寬鬆的，因為剛才那個委員問政完了就告訴我說636億不能給，因為……"],["卓院長榮泰：多少？"],["賴委員士葆：636億不能給，因為你砍了地方的錢沒有道理，我說我們寧願寬鬆一點，大家爭取這個，是我個人，我代表我個人，不代表黨團，我覺得這可以給。"],["卓院長榮泰：那請委員支持，讓你去影響其他的委員。"],["賴委員士葆：但是你的145億不能給，總統府增加幾千萬幹什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我就說是878億或是733億，我們都可以合理的來討論，我們願意再創造一個……"],["賴委員士葆：甚至更少啦，我覺得不需要這麼多！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我是說我們願意創造一個合理討論的空間跟時機。"],["賴委員士葆：不要討價還價！來，我們再看下一頁。這裡面更扯的是什麼？媒體廣宣還要增加4.3億，這更扯啊，沒有最扯只有更扯！你增加4.3億要幹什麼呢？這幹什麼……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為過去我們都沒有啊！"],["賴委員士葆：側翼、網軍啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，過去我們沒有做什麼事，這半年以來，行政院沒有媒體政策宣導的費用，我們完全沒有了！"],["賴委員士葆：7.2億怎麼沒有？7.2億啊，原來7.2億。"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院的部分。"],["賴委員士葆：給你們7.2億啊，原來在這裡啊，怎麼沒有呢？原來的7.2億啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的發言系統完全沒有相關的經費，除了人事費之外，都沒有經費了。"],["賴委員士葆：不會啊，你們發言系統一天到晚出來罵人，怎麼沒有呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：哪有出來罵人？"],["賴委員士葆：他出來罵盧秀燕啊！怎麼沒有呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有！沒有出來罵人，那是傳達院會後的……"],["賴委員士葆：常常出來罵人啊！現在罵蔣萬安，因為蔣萬安講到你的痛處，說要把你換掉、換童子賢，所以你就出來罵人，就這樣啊！怎麼沒有呢？怎麼會說沒有人發言，一天到晚發言，怎麼沒有呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：那不是發言系統出來罵人，那是我們回應……"],["賴委員士葆：回應就是罵人啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：回應媒體的詢問。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，以回應來講，對在野黨就是罵人，就這樣啊！所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們天天被罵啊！"],["賴委員士葆：被罵是應該的，因為你權力……"],["卓院長榮泰：被罵是應該的，罵人就不應該？好。"],["賴委員士葆：當然啊！你權力大啊，當然要虛心接受，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們權力大怎麼會被要求統刪……"],["賴委員士葆：你權力這麼大，當然要接受監督、接受批評啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：權力大怎麼會被要求自行刪減636億？"],["賴委員士葆：你權力這麼大，當然要接受監督啊！對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們權力沒有很大。"],["賴委員士葆：來，我現在告訴你喔，對於追加預算，我們算是已經盡力了，財委會的部分，我下個禮拜會排案，追加預算我會排進來……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，感謝！"],["賴委員士葆：可是真的到最後通過要到什麼時候？10月底、11月左右，這個預算才能夠最後三讀，要這麼長的時間，因為……"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信韓院長有安排議程的時間跟安排的方向。"],["賴委員士葆：對，但韓院長也要經過我們這裡啦，一樣啦，委員會的程序還是要走一下啦！救災的部分我們會安排，很快的讓它……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：下禮拜去三讀，但是追加預算沒辦法這麼快……"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望丹娜絲颱風以及韌性的產業支持這兩個部分……"],["賴委員士葆：這兩個會在這個會期……"],["卓院長榮泰：這兩個一定要趕快……"],["賴委員士葆：救災的，只有救災的，我這樣硬壓、硬壓……"],["卓院長榮泰：產業支持也很重要，委員，你對產業界那麼了解，後關稅時代的產業支持非常重要。"],["賴委員士葆：是，你要跟立法院要錢就要趕快送來，你要講韌性，你把話題岔出去講韌性，我就跟你講韌性，我們通過了4,500億，你為什麼不執行呢？你執行，趕快把預算送來，就給你過了啊！結果你還要修正！來，我們看下一頁，你要修正到5,900億，我不知道為什麼你要修正？差了多少？差了450億，為什麼你要搞這個東西，然後把時間拖長，我研究很久耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們對弱勢要加強啊！"],["賴委員士葆：對弱勢加強我們都支持你啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：而且如果真的要發1萬塊，2,350億是不夠的，所以要加10億；另外，台電那麼辛苦的修復很多電網韌性，毀損這麼多已經超過原來計畫之外，所以希望加強這部分200億；另外編列了第二期產業支持200億，有需要的時候我們再送來。"],["賴委員士葆：來，講回來，你不要扯那麼遠！我跟你講一個我想要談的，關於軍公教的調薪，你們的態度怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：軍公教調薪都有固定的時間，像最近我知道……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啊！最近禮拜四要確定嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，最近有在開一些相關的會議……"],["賴委員士葆：禮拜四你要確定了，不是嗎？禮拜四的院會要確定，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要考慮到現在這個時機軍公教調薪對產業界會發生什麼影響，我們希望民間也調薪嘛，對不對？軍公教調薪最重要的是希望民間也調薪，民間調薪的結果，對現在的中小微企業會不會造成在後關稅時代更多的壓力，我們正在探尋這方面的反應。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你們傾向不調薪了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們還在徵詢當中。"],["賴委員士葆：你傾向不調薪囉，你的意思是不調薪囉？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在徵詢當中，我們已經連續兩年都調薪了。"],["賴委員士葆：我跟你講，因為你已經回答前面的委員說，明年度的總預算是根據新的財劃法，大概就是中央撥三千七百多億給地方政府，所以調薪的話，你只要負責166億，地方政府自己負擔116億，這個帳很清楚是這樣算，總共兩百多億。帳是這樣算的。","卓院長，人家都說你是大師兄、善於溝通，但是我很客觀的老實講，我非常客觀的觀察你這一年多來，你是個吵架內閣，你不是溝通內閣，是吵架；然後呢？釋憲；然後呢？覆議。我們立法院代表百分之百民意三讀通過法案，「啪」一個巴掌打過來，不過！釋憲，「啪」又一個巴掌打過去！兩院怎麼會好呢？所以難怪人家說要把你換掉嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，一句話而已。通過之前，我們如何請立法院重新考量，立法院也從來沒有一次在通過這樣的法律之前重新考量過，就直接表決，我們覆議是被動的，而且是依照憲法賦予行政院的責任跟權力。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啦！你們到最後覆議都是為了要累積大罷免的籌碼啦，不要忘了，我就給你時間倒帶，老柯（柯建銘）是我多年的好朋友……"],["卓院長榮泰：當立法院……"],["賴委員士葆：來，你聽我講，不要急……"],["卓院長榮泰：大院通過職權行使法的時候，我們根本還沒有到行政院來啊！"],["賴委員士葆：你不要急！你不要急！老柯在去年1月13號選完，1月15號就說了要推動大罷免，要改變差6席的情況，要把它贏過來，差6席，所有的行政院配合他，你配合他，所以這個東西……老實講你一釋憲，兩院的關係就不好，越來越糟、越來越糟，這就惡性螺旋，大家如果彼此諒解對方就不一樣了。以這個來講，很多事情是可以溝通的，但你們也不溝通。我隨便講，審查總預算的時候，我們都知道歷年來院長主持的協商，我在這裡二十幾年，每一次就跟老柯啊，說來說去都要協商，但是你看，韓院長這麼辛苦，我都替他捨不得啊，被老柯這樣糟蹋，老柯從盤古開天開始講起，根本就是不要協商嘛，就是在拖時間，為什麼？他要累積全民的仇恨值，然後你們開始洗腦，透過你們所支持的側翼，還有剛才有幾為委員提到的，哇，給這個、給那個的來開始修理在野黨，是在累積這個啊！今天如果你回過來，回來你原本大師兄的本分……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以……"],["賴委員士葆：你不要講話，你聽我講完……"],["卓院長榮泰：一句話就好，委員……"],["賴委員士葆：不要一句話！來，我希望你回到原來大師兄，回到善於溝通、善於協調的卓榮泰，而不是受老柯的影響，為了要推動大罷免，為了讓你們一黨獨大、獨裁，這樣子的話，今天的局面不一樣了。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以委員……"],["賴委員士葆：韓院長早就跟你講了要追加預算，你到今天才提出來！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，那你是不是支持我，以後我說我們要調整財政支出結構，在財劃法之後，我要調整財政支出結構，委員同意嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：這個看怎麼調整啦！第一個……"],["卓院長榮泰：第二個，我要調整兩院互動模式……"],["賴委員士葆：第一個，我正要提的一個案子，我本來是下個禮拜當召委時要審查的，結果禮拜一要加開院會了，沒辦法審，就是地方補助款不可以刪，因為這是法定的，不可以刪……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以第二個，我希望調整兩院互動模式，委員同意嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：你覺得現在不好，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：兩院互動模式，因為你剛剛講了那麼多，說我們不溝通、我們吵架，所以我們以後來調整兩院互動模式……"],["賴委員士葆：要怎麼調整？"],["卓院長榮泰：好不好？"],["賴委員士葆：當然好啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：好啊，那我們就照這個方向，像這兩週韓院長所主持的朝野協商，進度都非常好，方向也都是我們共同希望的，就照這個兩院互動模式來走下去。"],["賴委員士葆：少一點的權謀就可以調整了，為了國家……"],["卓院長榮泰：我很少用任何權謀，我沒有用任何權謀。"],["賴委員士葆：大家打開天窗說亮話啦，823之後會更明顯，卓院長，我……"],["卓院長榮泰：823對我來講，我只負責把公投辦好，其他都不是我們要考量的，把投票秩序辦好，任何的投票秩序辦好。"],["賴委員士葆：卓院長，我希望823之後還能看到你來立法院，我還希望能看到你來立法院，但是我更希望有一個超然的人來接你的位置。"],["卓院長榮泰：823當天有公投、有罷免，我的責任是把秩序辦好，結論都不在行政院的考量內。"],["賴委員士葆：對，那我就告訴你，你換一個、兩個、三個、五個內閣官員不夠，你最該被換掉。"],["卓院長榮泰：什麼？"],["賴委員士葆：你卓院長應該換掉，應該step down，讓新的人來接，我覺得氣氛可以更好。謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝卓院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。","現在作以下決定：一、將各委員發言記錄及書面質詢函送行政院，請就未答復部分予以書面答復。二、已提出之書面質詢，尚未登載公報者，一律補刊登。","今天非常感謝林倩綺委員、林憶君委員陪同我們一起進行本日的會議。","今日會議進行到此為止，散會。謝謝。","散會（17時21分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳昭姿","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","黃國昌","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","陳亭妃","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","張雅琳","賴惠員","王正旭","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2025-08-19"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00004","1147101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費\n等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}