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报告员我想人逆己逆我多次到灾区去跟着总统或者院长我们多次去跟着他们去访视这整个灾区我大概应该有"},{"start":102.618,"end":121.503,"text":"這一個多月以來應該有15次以上到災區去訪視我們看了這一次的這個災情確實是非常非常的嚴重所以我一直請我們經濟部的同仁在我們的責任範圍裡面要用最快的速度"},{"start":122.819,"end":135.656,"text":"然后去帮忙把这个灾区能够复建起来比如说我们现在前进办公室成立以后经济部对于这个复建的部分"},{"start":136.806,"end":157.919,"text":"我們的這個水利署跟台水公司我們負責的責任區我們都是最快的速度大家都用同理心來協助處理我們面對的這個問題好 部長來先讓您講到這裡你講到災後復健的部分那我就先來跟您討論一下災後復健的部分"},{"start":158.994,"end":185.307,"text":"當然今天主席排定的議程是討論中小企業不過因為在這一次的丹納斯風災跟728的豪雨其實在高雄的地區受災最嚴重是在山區這些就是我們您所謂的災後復建這是路斷掉了橋斷掉了那經濟部水利署或者是說公路總局花了非常多的時間而且非常快速的"},{"start":186.645,"end":206.665,"text":"幾天幾夜都沒有睡覺在搶救這些道路但是相對來講其實你也可以看到這是很脆弱的一環那講到補償你講中小企業的補償我就是要跟您討論山區這一次受災嚴重但是山區沒有中小企業"},{"start":208.038,"end":227.591,"text":"山区的观光受到了非常大的影响山区的比如说我们的这些小吃部这些零售业者这个农产加工品等等他们其实都受到了相当大的影响但是目前这样看起来并不符合在我们所谓的中小企业的这一些补助里头"},{"start":228.615,"end":257.296,"text":"那這些要怎麼辦你們未來在經濟部跟跨部會比如說跟這個觀光署或者是跟其他的單位有沒有這樣的跨部會的災後的這些補救的措施或者是說要等到我們的這個特別預算通過之後才能來做這一方面我們院長有指示就是說不用等到這個特別預算過後才來處理這個救災的事情"},{"start":258.462,"end":271.394,"text":"我們會用我們現在有的這個預算範圍裡面趕快先去做因為救災最重要所以在您剛所提的這個地區我們是有這個服務業的協助措施的"},{"start":272.096,"end":301.956,"text":"他是属于服务业的一部分我们大概分成服务业服务业你协助他什么哪一方面比如说他是店家他是店家我们就是援助他每一家我们会先给他一万块钱然后协助他做铁卷门招牌摊牌展示架你只要是在受灾地区的全部都可以吗他没有税籍登记没有什么登记的你只要是在灾后地区的全部都可以摊饭我们会把它列为摊饭"},{"start":303.417,"end":321.186,"text":"好那有這些有開始做了嗎現在是開始做已經開始在盤點了是不是應該是在盤點而已吧應該我還沒有聽到有任何已經開始受到我們是盤點透過當地的管理機構先盤點但是我們現在把比較嚴重的地方處理"},{"start":322.346,"end":350.044,"text":"我知道部长当然你要先去处理很多的中小企业因为很多的我们的这个台湾的中小企业占了八成那就业人口其实非常多也是在这些中小企业里头包括嘉义台南其实很多的中小企业受损当然你们要去做这些事情那我现在要跟您谈的是在高雄的这些山区的相对剥夺感是比较大的那他们除了道路受损以外其实电力的中断电力的脆弱"},{"start":351.426,"end":366.745,"text":"我想这个也是您应该要非常重视是 报告委员在未来我们会结合电力的部分我们会优先因为这三区负电比较慢所以我们会先把发电机送过去"},{"start":368.157,"end":386.055,"text":"所以未來就是只要有風災就是設置發電機馬上就到這個發電機就會前置作業先到發電機或者是儲能櫃等等我們都會先做這個其實在去年山陀兒的時候曾文森董事長在這邊也特別也提過我也同樣質詢過這個問題也同樣提過這件事情"},{"start":389.418,"end":411.827,"text":"但是很顯然的這一次應該也沒有因應到也沒有去想到說這個風災會這麼嚴重這個水災會這麼嚴重但是我比較想要再談的就是說我們所謂的電網韌性計畫我覺得台灣的整體電網其實是相對脆弱一個颱風來去年這個是在高雄"},{"start":414.019,"end":434.263,"text":"電線桿倒一排今年是在嘉義跟台南整個電線桿倒一排超過一個禮拜以上的停電所有的台電工程人員不眠不休的搶救甚至還造成人命的傷亡但是這個電網電纜地下化的這個政策我們從三年前開始就說要花5645億去做電網韌性計畫"},{"start":438.624,"end":453.098,"text":"那到底開始做了沒 做了哪些那你們要優先去盤點你們現在說要去盤點一些優先的地區這些優先的地區包括哪些地方是要做優先的地區有沒有去做這一方面的盤點"},{"start":454.429,"end":483.036,"text":"現在開始在做這一方面現在才開始要做現在具體的因為當初您剛才所指導的這個五千多億的這個是全國的是全國的他分十年做嘛這過去提出來的五千多億沒有分十年你們這不是分十年的計畫嗎我們現在要縮短現在要縮短我們沒有辦法等到十年是所以我們現在把它縮短到這個總統的指示到2028年2028年所以三年內要完成對"},{"start":484.389,"end":512.032,"text":"三年內要完成台電有這樣的量能或者是說台電有足夠的足夠的經費可以來做這件事情嗎就我們大家來努力我當然希望你們能夠努力啦但能不能給我一個比較確切比如說你們現在盤點出來哪些地方會是優先報告委員我們可以把這個盤點表跟時程表送送給您好"},{"start":512.711,"end":520.011,"text":"那預算呢台電還有錢嗎5645億你如果分成三年的話一年要將近"},{"start":521.601,"end":547.093,"text":"一千五百 一千六百億台電有錢嗎要編列啦要來編列這個預算不是編列而已啦保電池你現在不只是編列而已不是你編列這個預算你台電就沒錢了你反而也不可以撥補一千億給你你台電怎麼有錢 還要繼續做這個我們現在先把這個所謂太陽能光電太陽能光電的地區然後先支援附近的這個鄉鎮"},{"start":550.914,"end":574.242,"text":"這個是我們一個新的智慧電網因為台電太陽能光電的這個跟我講的電纜地下化是有相關的嗎跟電纜地下化沒有相關對啊我現在是跟你講電纜地下化但是我們要讓大家有電可以用所以我們就是光電第二天太陽出來以後它就能夠產生電所以我們就會把它接到那個變電所然後來供給他們的用電這樣"},{"start":575.782,"end":601.168,"text":"部長我覺得台電其實應該要整體再去做更快速的這些盤點到底你的哪一些區域是優先的是工業區要優先呢還是臨海的這些比較容易受到損害的要做優先呢有一個很重要的例子當初蘇貞昌院長在做平和公路的電纜地下化的時候被罵到臭頭"},{"start":602.435,"end":625.917,"text":"被罵到臭頭但是現在你看經歷了過去年跟今年平和公路一帶沒有任何停電所以被罵不是壞事你們要能夠耐得住撐得住這個壓力做對的事情堅持做對的事情要能夠撐得住這個壓力那當然我們要給台電最多最多的"},{"start":626.949,"end":656.078,"text":"支持跟協助啊 沒電的時候大家都會一直說台電怎麼那麼快可是真的台電需要經費的時候大家又不肯給又說什麼台電很有錢啊台電不需要這個經費啦我覺得這個是沒道理的所以部長我期待就是說台電當然要加緊腳步去做電纜地下化的整體這些電網韌性的政策要趕快加緊腳步去做那對於預算的爭取其實台電也要據理力爭"},{"start":657.025,"end":658.05,"text":"好不好好好謝謝謝謝委員好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":67,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時11分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長早。我想經歷過丹娜絲颱風跟七二八的豪雨，對您來講心情上應該是像洗三溫暖，這應該也是您有史以來第一次有這樣的機會實際進入到災區去勘災，了解到天災對於整體環境所受到的影響，您個人有什麼看法？您剛剛的報告其實就是數據上面政府現在應該要補助多少、補助多少，但是我想您在經濟部的這個位置上面，其實看到在這樣的風災災後，政府有很多的重建工作要做，不只是現在的這些paperwork，您覺得現行臺灣整體在面對到這樣子的一個巨大天災的時候，經濟部有什麼可以再多做一些的，或者是我們現在整體的建設上有什麼不足的？部長，我想聽一下你的看法。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想人溺己溺，我多次跟著總統或者院長去訪視災區，我這一個多月以來到災區訪視應該有15次以上，我們看了這一次的災情，確實是非常非常的嚴重，所以我一直請經濟部的同仁在我們的責任範圍裡面，要用最快的速度去幫忙把災區復建起來。比如我們現在前進辦公室成立以後，經濟部對於復建的部分，水利署跟台水公司對於我們負責的責任區，都是以最快的速度在處理，大家都用同理心來協助處理我們面對的問題。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，部長先讓您講到這裡，你講到災後復建，那我就先來跟您討論一下災後復建的部分。當然今天主席排定的議程是討論中小企業，不過因為這一次的丹娜絲風災跟七二八的豪雨，高雄地區受災最嚴重的其實是在山區。簡報上的這些就是您所謂的災後復建，這是路斷掉了，橋斷掉了，經濟部水利署或者是公路總局花了非常多的時間，而且也非常快速的進行搶救，幾天幾夜都沒有睡覺在搶救這些道路，但是相對來講，其實你也可以看到，這是很脆弱的一環。","再來，你講到中小企業的補償，我就是要跟您討論，山區這一次受災嚴重，山區沒有中小企業，但是山區的觀光受到了非常大的影響，比如說這些小吃部、零售業者、農產加工品等等，他們其實都受到了相當大的影響，但是目前這樣看起來並不符合在所謂中小企業的這一些補助裡頭，那這些要怎麼辦？未來你們經濟部在跨部會的部分，比如跟觀光署或者是跟其他的單位有沒有災後的補救措施？或者是要等到特別預算通過之後才能來做這一方面？"],["郭部長智輝：院長有指示，不用等到特別預算通過後才來處理　救災的事情，我們會就我們現有的預算範圍內趕快先去做，因為救災最重要，所以在您剛才所提的這個地區，我們是有服務業的協助措施，它是屬於服務業的一部分，我們大概分成……"],["邱委員議瑩：協助什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：服務業跟……"],["邱委員議瑩：服務業你協助它什麼？哪一些方面？"],["郭部長智輝：譬如說他是店家，我們就援助他們，每一家我們會先給他們1萬塊錢，協助他們做鐵捲門、招牌、展示架……"],["邱委員議瑩：那他們沒有稅籍登記，只要是在受災地區的全部都可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：他們沒有稅籍登記、沒有什麼登記的，只要是災後地區的全部都可以？"],["郭部長智輝：攤販，我們會把他們列為攤販。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，那這一些有開始做了嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：現在開始做。"],["邱委員議瑩：已經開始在盤點了，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：我們都……"],["邱委員議瑩：應該是在盤點而已吧？我還沒有聽到任何已經開始受到……"],["郭部長智輝：我們透過當地的管理機構先盤點，但是我們現在先把比較嚴重的地方做處理，接著我們就……"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我知道，當然你要先去處理很多中小企業，因為我們臺灣的中小企業占了八成，就業人口其實有非常多是在這些中小企業裡頭，包括嘉義、臺南有很多的中小企業受損，你們當然要去做這些事情。我現在要跟您談的是，在高雄山區的相對剝奪感是比較大的，他們除了道路受損以外，其實電力的中斷、電力的脆弱，我想這也是您應該要非常重視的。"],["郭部長智輝：是，報告委員，未來我們會優先結合電力的部分，因為山區復電比較慢……"],["邱委員議瑩：對。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們會先把發電機送過去。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以未來只要有風災……"],["郭部長智輝：就設置發電機，馬上就到……"],["邱委員議瑩：發電機的前置作業先到，但是……"],["郭部長智輝：發電機或者是儲能櫃等等，我們都會先去做。"],["邱委員議瑩：其實在去年山陀兒的時候，曾文生董事長在這邊也特別提過，我也同樣質詢過這個問題，也同樣提過這件事情，但是很顯然的，這一次應該沒有因應到，也沒有想到風災會這麼嚴重，水災會這麼嚴重，而我比較想要談的是電網韌性計畫，我覺得臺灣的整體電網其實相對脆弱，一個颱風來，去年在高雄電線桿倒一排，今年是在嘉義跟臺南，整個電線桿倒一排，超過一個禮拜以上的停電，所有台電工程人員不眠不休的搶救，甚至還造成人命的傷亡。關於電纜地下化的政策，從3年前就開始說要花5,645億去做電網韌性計畫，那到底開始做了沒？做了哪些？你們說要先去盤點一些優先的地區，這些優先的地區包括哪些？哪些地方叫做優先的地區？有沒有去做這一方面的盤點？"],["郭部長智輝：現在開始在做這一方面……"],["邱委員議瑩：現在才開始要做啊？"],["郭部長智輝：現在具體的……因為您剛才所指導的這個五千多億是全國的。"],["邱委員議瑩：是，他們分10年做，過去提出來的五千多億不是10年的計畫嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：現在要縮短，我們沒有辦法等到10年。"],["邱委員議瑩：是。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們現在依據總統的指示，把它縮短到2028年。"],["邱委員議瑩：2028年？所以3年內要完成？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：3年內要完成，台電有這樣的量能，或者台電有足夠的經費來做這件事情嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們大家來努力。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我現在是這樣說，我當然希望你們能夠努力，但能不能給我一個比較確切的，譬如說你們現在盤點出來，哪些地方會是優先？這是可以說的嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們可以把盤點表跟時程表送給你。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，那預算呢？台電還有錢嗎？5,645億如果分成3年的話，1年要將近1,600億，台電有錢嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：要編列，要來編列這個預算，我們先把……"],["邱委員議瑩：不是編列而已，部長，現在不是只有編列而已……"],["郭部長智輝：不是……"],["邱委員議瑩：你編列這個預算，台電本來就沒錢了，立法院也不要撥補1,000億給你，台電怎麼會有錢可以繼續做這個？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在先把所謂太陽能光電的地區，先支援附近的鄉鎮，這是我們新的智慧電網，因為台電……"],["邱委員議瑩：太陽能光電跟我講的電纜地下化有相關喔？"],["郭部長智輝：跟電纜地下化沒有相關。"],["邱委員議瑩：對啊，我現在是跟你講電纜地下化。"],["郭部長智輝：但是我們要讓大家有電可以用，所以我們的光電是在第二天太陽出來以後就能夠產生電，我們會把它接到變電所，然後供給他們用電。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我覺得台電其實應該要整體再去做更快速的盤點，到底哪一些區域是優先的？是工業區要優先呢？還是臨海比較容易受到損害的要優先？有一個很重要的例子，當初蘇貞昌院長在做屏鵝公路的電纜地下化時被罵到臭頭，但是現在你看經歷了去年跟今年，屏鵝公路一帶沒有任何停電。所以被罵不是壞事，你們要能夠耐得住、撐得住壓力，堅持做對的事情要能夠撐得住壓力，當然我們要給台電最多最多的支持跟協助，沒電的時候大家都會一直說：台電怎麼不趕快來？可是台電真的需要經費時，大家又不肯給，又說台電很有錢，台電不需要這個經費，我覺得這是沒道理的。所以部長，我期待的是，台電當然要加緊腳步去做電纜地下化的整體電網韌性政策，要趕快加緊腳步去做。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：對於預算的爭取，其實台電也要據理力爭，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["邱委員議瑩：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，我們現在請鄭正鈐委員詢答。","在鄭委員詢答前，我們先確定議事錄。請問各位同仁，上次會議議事錄有無錯誤？（無）沒有，議事錄確定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-20","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","李坤城","賴士葆","蔡易餘","邱志偉","張嘉郡","何欣純","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-20"],"gazette_id":"1147302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147302_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長就「協助中小企業災後復原辦理情況」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147302_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}