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比較有水啦不會說裡面在淹水結果抽水站在抽水抽不到水因為你要把所有的排水系統都往我們的抽水站下去做建設"},{"start":312.987,"end":334.852,"text":"這就是為什麼內政部現在非常重要就是我們的排水系統 湘寒系統所以我覺得現在國民黨一直講說這個如果再用追加預算把它撥補回來算我們的整個三減預算數是史上最低這什麼理由啊"},{"start":335.592,"end":364.54,"text":"我們編的預算就是必要性只是因為你們有一些思考方向跟我們的執政黨不一樣所以呢你們把它刪除掉但是就是因為我們認為現在非常需要尤其這幾個颱風下來這幾個豪雨下來這已經都沒有辦法用我們現在的狀況去預估現在是極端氣候所以第二預備金他說四個月"},{"start":365.831,"end":392.027,"text":"我覺得四個月如果沒有預備四五十億在那邊等什麼時候要發生問題不知道我們要預備萬一我們上來希望平安無事我們希望平安無事最好有這個比較充裕的時候就可以幫助更多對 我們四五十億最好最後都沒有用到還到國庫這是最好可是我們沒有辦法沒有預備這個如果今天沒有特別預算這請問你要怎麼解決"},{"start":394.108,"end":419.39,"text":"對不對這是因為丹納斯颱風跟豪雨有特別預算說我們編了600億如果沒有這600億你這第二季北京炸的不夠了啦沒有錯而且是缺很大是不是所以我覺得因為有整個趨勢的改變你不能說用現代的狀況然後說請問你四個月你能開五六十億嗎"},{"start":422.591,"end":450.352,"text":"我再次強調這不是一年用比例來算該用多少我們還是很管控的現在是極端氣候現在是極端氣候我再次強調現在是極端氣候任何人都沒有辦法跟天去做比賽我們一定要預備很多的資源隨時做人民最後的一個支持我們當然再次強調我們不希望"},{"start":451.997,"end":476.347,"text":"我們有任何的天災需要去用到這筆錢可是我們必須要準備所以在這個部分我們一直強調的治水為什麼那麼重要院長你有去看到曾文熙你有去看曾文熙的分紅去見證可是我當下也跟院長強調17年"},{"start":479.655,"end":492.625,"text":"從我第一年擔任立委我們一直在做這些整治到分紅你看總經費是87.76億總長是多少12.57公里完成治理的10.37公里含橋樑改建總金額是58.93億"},{"start":503.613,"end":528.3,"text":"再來因為我們多做了12點的疏紅相含就是我們的分紅我們把壓力解除掉所以這裡面多少19億院長你當天站的那個地方就是19億然後呢現在我說的最後一里路就是在去年剛好年底核准的2.2公里的部分總共多少10億"},{"start":531.167,"end":554.903,"text":"所以你知道過去在12點就是您站的位置12點幾乎電視媒體一定都報因為他幾乎都要三天退水時間要三天我都去上便當我都倒了水然後趕快把一些我們的弱勢朋友趕快把他移出來"},{"start":557.195,"end":569.467,"text":"當時我們這段時間都在做這些事情那天里長就說剛好現在在做這些最後一里路的工程所以他們這次沒有淹水"},{"start":571.215,"end":594.182,"text":"所以院長為什麼我一直強調治水預算一定要一次到位而且不只這些喔我必須講的這裡面還有什麼你知道在這段時間我們八八大家都說我們一開去到位我可以一點一滴跟大家說我可以講三天三夜因為大家沒了解過"},{"start":595.646,"end":619.82,"text":"大家所看到的都是現在的狀況可是我們一路來走了那麼久包括當時候八八水災的時候你知道安南區整片淹水北區整片淹水都是我的選區現在沒有了我們做了多少包括抽水站包括湘寒包括大小排水"},{"start":620.973,"end":630.796,"text":"我們走了多久錢就是花在這裡然後大家看到的安中和現在也沒有了這也是湘寒"},{"start":632.284,"end":659.822,"text":"再來 我們所看到的整個安南區就是用抽水站在湘海把它做一個整治因為它是古柏龍啊以前這些都是自然的海綿有溫度 有冷凍 都會滴水現在沒有了現在都蓋房子起來了還有北區也是一樣我小時候就住在陰水的地方啦爸爸你知道嗎 家裡在陰水我們是放著 然後"},{"start":661.143,"end":687.637,"text":"請消防車趕快幫我們載出去因為地方的地緣關係我們最清楚哪邊淹水哪邊需要送便當我們最清楚我們是用橡皮艇然後把便當掛到二樓那是這樣一路走過來的文賢路一帶整個然後包括我們南區還有仁德山野溪都是一樣都是當時候這樣一次而定我們看了多少次"},{"start":688.823,"end":697.453,"text":"可是為什麼都要這樣傷害我們說我們的治水預算花到哪裡去了如果沒有這些治水預算我相信"},{"start":698.817,"end":719.583,"text":"我們沒有辦法讓我們人民更有感因為有可能我們淹水的範圍更大現在我們是一直在縮把淹水範圍縮小包括我們的做制洪池你覺得在中共共產黨一個制洪池就把他們所有的裡內的問題全部解決"},{"start":720.97,"end":737.643,"text":"在地滯洪的觀念必須要推動下去沒錯所以本來就是要用新的概念去解決現在目前新舊部落的一個承接問題這個是沒有辦法的從永康啊 淹水面積說真的 院長"},{"start":738.604,"end":756.097,"text":"我覺得如果要說我們治水預算花到哪裡去的同時請把舊資料翻出來看從88一路來我們88特別條例然後在我們的前瞻然後現在我馬上又要編一個延續性的"},{"start":756.537,"end":769.605,"text":"未來有四年一千億而且針對的是縣市管河川的改善過去都是中央管河川中央做縣市管河川縣市做我們補助這是我們是全部把縣市管河川我們希望解決"},{"start":770.882,"end":786.093,"text":"源頭或是末端的這些問題以後委員不要那麼辛苦幫助那麼多辛苦的國人院長你這個真的太重要你知道嗎為什麼曾文希排水會17年因為他中央管排特別預算只能補助縣市管排"},{"start":786.593,"end":815.175,"text":"就是這樣子中央縣市分道陽標變成沒有辦法整合如果我們未來這一千億四年一千億你知道我們可以有多少可以一次到位來解決地方的治水問題明年我們編了一百四十七億雖然在中央財政目前因為新財化法非常拮据情況底下我們還是跟委員說的一樣該做的優先做必須要做的中央還是把治水列為很重要的優先工作"},{"start":815.711,"end":839.25,"text":"院長 從小就住在一個會淹水的地方從小 你可不可以知道我們的第一件事就是爸爸媽媽叫你走起來我跟姑姑 因為喝醉了 他們要給我墊高然後一路來從議員到立委我們所看到的就是怎麼把我們的淹水面積把它縮小"},{"start":840.191,"end":860.917,"text":"我們第一時間到縣長會館我們知道會被罵可是我們可以了解問題出在哪裡這才是最重要的所以治水預算真的很重要我們要拜託不能再有任何刪減的問題所以這個我們會全力支持請委員跟大院委員共同來支持這些必要的預算"},{"start":861.317,"end":889.98,"text":"然後院長從這一次其實風災的部分我想有幾個我們要成為任性城市任性國家我們的電纜地下化要拜託這個一定要做這個不能不做因為電纜地下化你看倒了光台南2000多支的電感這個部分不做不行還有我們地下管線供購的問題因為我們目前很多的地下管線的圖資並沒有建立起來"},{"start":891.221,"end":912.783,"text":"所以如何建立我們的圖資這很重要還有我們的通訊防災在我們通訊防災的SOP就是在災前的預防我們如何備齊所有的我們的行動基地台然後在如果發生災情的時候我們要怎麼第一線到地方"},{"start":913.624,"end":923.592,"text":"我們的地圖 我們所有的配置該怎麼做這些一定要做這才能成為任性城市 任性國家這個要拜託院長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":808,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（11時6分）謝謝院長。請卓院長備詢，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，我覺得追加預算的內容，大家可以討論，如果用一竿子打翻一船人說：根本不需要追加預算，你們提出來是浪費公帑！這個部分我無法接受。這878.4億如果用各部會的數額，就說怎麼會編這麼多，請問有沒有看到裡面的細項？這裡面的細項都是媒體一直在質疑行政院、在質疑執政黨的，我們現在把它回編回來，用追加預算有什麼不對？大家都認為原住民保留地禁伐補償很需要，都用這個來質疑我們。既然很需要，我們用追加預算把它編進來，有何錯誤？","再來是提升國軍待遇，他們常常都說我們不重視國軍，可是我們為穩固國防戰力，給志願役勤務加給、戰鬥部隊加給、資訊勤務加給、電訊偵測官兵勤務加給，還有戰航官兵勤務加給，從加給的部分來提升國軍待遇，甚至協助國防部、海委會等等，請問這有什麼不對？這有必要嗎？有必要啊！因為沒有編進去的時候，他一直用這個打我們，說我們不重視國軍，所以我們要不要追加預算？當然要追加預算！把我們砍掉了，然後說我們不重視，這好不好笑？很好笑！然後我們的外交執行量能重不重要？沒有錢怎麼做外交？沒有執行量能，怎麼做外交？而且現在國際情勢變化這麼大，我們要不要做外交？要啊！我們對外要讓人家看到臺灣的光、看到臺灣的量能，所以外交的執行量能很重要，我們編這一筆預算要11億。再來，最重要的就是每個縣市都在罵你，說行政院怎麼可以刪一般補助？奇怪了，一方面要罵，現在要追加預算、把它撥補回來，他們也在罵，到底是怎麼一回事？所以一般補助要不要編？要編啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我在行政院院會都有請列席的地方首長支持，也請該縣市的委員能夠支持，我們一起把這個事情解決，我也非常感謝。"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！把這個問題解決嘛！一開始每個縣市的縣市首長都開記者會罵行政院說：這個不能刪！好啊，不能刪，符合大家的意思，全部把它用追加預算追回來，這有什麼不對？再來，就是行政院本身要協助各地方的部分，這個部分重不重要？很重要啊！這部分如果沒有編的話……請問這裡面有多少與治水有關？就是他們講的，從內政部、農業部、經濟部等等，首先是內政部的部分，包含內政部下水道管理、污水下水道，還有相關的治水建設，現在我們抽水站都做了，但是院長，我們的抽水站基本上都是後來才增設的，也就是我們認為，現在要韌性治水，必須要有抽水站來做強硬的抽水，就是從內水抽到外水，但是這些抽水站都是現在找尋適合位置後所設置出來的，我們現在必須靠著這些排水箱涵，慢慢的把水排到的抽水站，這樣它比較抽得到水，不會裡面在淹水，結果抽水站抽不到水，因為你要把所有的排水系統都往抽水站下去做建設，這就是為什麼內政部現在非常重視我們的排水系統、箱涵系統，現在國民黨一直講說，這個如果再用追加預算把它撥補回來，算我們整個刪減預算數，就是史上最低，這什麼理由啊？我們編的預算就是出於必要性，只是因為你們有一些思考方向跟我們執政黨不一樣，所以你們把它刪除掉，但就是因為我們認為現在非常需要，尤其這幾個颱風下來、這幾個豪雨下來，都已經沒有辦法用現在的狀況去預估，現在是極端氣候，所以第二預備金他說4個月，我覺得4個月如果沒有預備四、五十億在那邊等，什麼時候要發生問題不知道……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要以備萬一，我們當然希望平安無事……"],["陳委員亭妃：對，我們希望平安無事最好啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們有這個比較充裕的時候，就可以幫助更多。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，這四、五十億我們最好最後都沒有用到，就是還到國庫，這樣最好，可是我們沒有辦法不預備這個，如果今天沒有特別預算，它可能一下子就花完了，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：這是因為丹娜絲颱風跟豪雨有特別預算，所以我們編了600億，如果沒有這600億，你這第二預備金早就不夠了啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：而且還缺很大，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：就是因為整個趨勢的改變，你不能用現在的狀況然後就說：請問你4個月可以花五、六十億嗎？我要再次強調……"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是一年用比例來算應該用多少，我們還是管控得很嚴謹。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，現在是極端氣候、現在是極端氣候，我再次強調，現在是極端氣候，任何人都沒有辦法跟天去比賽，我們一定要預備很多的資源，隨時做人民最後的支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們當然要再次強調，我們不希望有任何天災需要去用到這一筆錢，可是我們必須要準備，所以在這個部分我們一直強調，治水為什麼那麼重要？院長，你有特別下去看、去見證曾文溪的分洪，可是我當下也跟院長強調，17年了，從我第一年擔任立委，我們一直在做這些整治到分洪，你看總經費是87.76億，總長是12.57公里，已完成治理的有10.37公里（含橋梁改建），總金額是58.93億。","再來，因為我們多做了十二佃的疏洪箱涵，就是我們的分洪，我們把壓力解除掉，所以這裡面多少？19億，院長你當天站的那個地方就是19億，然後現在我說的最後一哩路就是在去年年底剛好核准的2.2公里的部分，總共多少？10億。所以你知道過去在十二佃，就是您站的位置，十二佃幾乎電視媒體一定都報，因為它幾乎退水時間都要3天，我們都去送便當，我們都一起涉水，然後趕快把一些弱勢朋友移出來，當時我們都在做這些事情；包括現在公親寮，那一天里長就說剛好現在在做這些最後一哩路的工程，所以他們這次沒有淹水。","院長，為什麼我一直強調治水預算一定要一次到位，而且不只這些，我必須講，這裡面還有什麼？你知道在這一段時間，我們八八……大家都說我們錢花到哪裡，我可以一點一滴跟大家說，我可以講三天三夜，因為大家沒有涉過水，大家所看到的都是現在的狀況。可是我們一路來走了那麼久，包括當時候八八水災的時候，你知道安南區整片淹水、北區整片淹水，都是我的選區，可是現在沒有了，我們做了多少，包括抽水站、包括箱涵、包括大小排水，我們走了多久，錢就是花在這裡，然後大家看到的安中河，現在也沒有了，這也是箱涵；再來我們所看到的整個安南區就是用抽水站在箱涵把它做一個整治，因為它是舊部落，以前這些都是自然的海綿，有塭仔、有農田，都可以裝水，現在沒有了，現在都蓋房子了；還有北區也是一樣，我小時候就住在會淹水的地方，八八你知道嗎？家裡在淹水，我們是放著，然後請消防車趕快幫我們載出去，因為地方的地緣關係我們最清楚，哪邊淹水、哪邊需要送便當，我們最清楚，我們是用橡皮艇，然後把便當掛到2樓耶！那是這樣一路走過來的；文賢路一帶，然後包括南區還有仁德、三爺溪都是一樣，當時候都是這樣看，我們看了多少次，可是為什麼都要這樣傷害我們說我們的治水預算花到哪裡去了？如果沒有這些治水預算，我相信我們沒有辦法讓人民更有感，因為有可能淹水的範圍更大，現在我們是一直在縮，把淹水範圍縮小，包括我們做滯洪池，你知道在將軍廣山里一個滯洪池就把他們所有里內的問題全部解決。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，在地滯洪的觀念必須要推動下去。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒錯，所以本來就是要用新的概念去解決現在新舊部落的承接問題，這個是沒有辦法的，從永康淹水面積……說真的，院長，我覺得如果要說我們治水預算花到哪裡去的同時，請把舊資料翻出來看，從八八一路來，我們八八特別條例，然後再我們的前瞻，然後現在我們馬上又要編一個延續性的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：未來有4年1,000億，而且針對的是縣市管河川的改善……"],["陳委員亭妃：拜託。"],["卓院長榮泰：過去都是中央管河川中央做，縣市管河川縣市做，我們補助，這次我們是全部把縣市管河川……我們希望解決源頭或是末端的這些問題，以後委員不要那麼辛苦，幫助那麼多辛苦的國人。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，這個真的太重要，你知道嗎？為什麼曾文溪排水會拖了17年，因為它中央管排，特別預算只能補助縣市管排，就是這樣子，中央、縣市分道揚鑣，變成沒有辦法整合，如果未來這4年1,000億，你知道我們有多少可以一次到位來解決地方的治水問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年我們編了147億，雖然目前在中央財政因為新財劃法非常拮掘的情況底下，我們還是跟委員說的一樣，該做的優先做；必須要做的，中央還是把治水列為很重要的優先工作。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，我從小就住在一個會淹水的地方，你知不知道我們從小第一件事就是爸爸媽媽叫你趕快起來搬家俱，因為淹水了，要趕快墊高。然後一路以來，從議員到立委，我們所看到的，就是怎麼把我們的淹水面積縮小，我們第一時間到現場會勘，我們知道會被罵，可是我們可以了解問題出在哪裡，這才是最重要的。治水預算真的很重要，我們真的要拜託，不能再有任何刪減的問題，所以這個我們會全力支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員跟大院委員共同來支持這些必要的預算。"],["陳委員亭妃：然後，院長，其實從這一次風災，我們要成為韌性城市、韌性國家有幾個部分，其中電纜地下化拜託一定要做，這個不能不做，因為你看光臺南倒了兩千多支的電桿，這個部分不做不行。還有地下管線共構的問題，因為目前很多地下管線的圖資並沒有建立起來，所以如何建立圖資很重要。還有通訊防災，在通訊防災的SOP，就是災前的預防，我們如何備齊所有的行動基地臺，然後如果發生災情的時候要怎麼第一線到地方？我們的地圖、所有配置該怎麼做？這些一定要做，才能成為韌性城市、韌性國家，這個要拜託院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們請業者要加強抗災性的基地臺，保障通訊的品質。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，在議場2樓旁聽的是來自各大專院校參加2025年模擬立法院所有營隊的同學們，我們掌聲歡迎各位同學。","接下來請賴士葆委員質詢，翁曉玲委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":215,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-26","speakers":["韓國瑜","王鴻薇","張啓楷","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","許宇甄","陳亭妃","賴士葆","賴惠員","翁曉玲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":159,"meetingDate":["2025-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1147401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第26次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算追加預算\n案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147401_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}