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本席邀請我們行政院卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21.573,"end":34.632,"text":"林委員好 院長好本席我們肯定也感謝行政院即刻的呼應本席最早提出的希望我們能夠提出特別條例來"},{"start":36.665,"end":51.82,"text":"搶救這一次造成可以說台灣百年史上最嚴重的一次風災首先我想跟院長我們必須要了解到真實的狀況我現在發現中央跟地方的數據會有落差"},{"start":53.943,"end":80.833,"text":"譬如說 按照中央所統計我們現在 受理的污損的件數有三萬九千件核發的有一萬八千六百件但是根據台南市政府呢他受理的件數已經有四萬三千三百五十二件核發的有兩萬九千件那這個落差在什麼地方呢台南市政府的受理還有核發的件數"},{"start":82.401,"end":103.529,"text":"都是一專區啦但是呢現在中央所公佈的數字都是只有重災區就是台南市的17個行政區所以這個會產生一個數字的落差因為這些現在的手裡都公佈在網路上我希望這中央跟地方"},{"start":105.392,"end":132.412,"text":"這個公佈的數字啊應該要一致才對應該要一樣才對嘛我說台南市公佈的是專期要知道這一次的災區宣告是全市 全台南市都屬於災區啦但是我們中央現在所公佈的受理建築 核發建築就是說處判協啦來申報的 還有我核定的受理跟地方是有很大的一個不一樣那這個部分"},{"start":134.212,"end":156.793,"text":"我們再來看一下為什麼核發件數跟實際的受理件數會有落差呢當然我們有一些行政作業第一個有些如果你的申請的品項跟你提供的一些照片影片的數據那個證據有一點落差有些是需要現刊的"},{"start":158.344,"end":180.885,"text":"有的是申請你不符合資格啦比如說你沒有實際居住的事實有的是重複送件所以這都需要人力來審查所以我們現在缺的人力啦不是只有在現場你做工施工的工班的人力行政程序的人力非常的需求"},{"start":181.994,"end":205.328,"text":"你看 按照台南市政府的數字現在申請的 還沒申請你可不可以請您未住金的有13600戶一萬三千六百戶喔那如果按照我們中央的數字啊你來申請未住金 那還沒有合併不知道可不可以符合資格的有超過兩萬戶"},{"start":207.267,"end":234.673,"text":"這就是我跟你說的連行政程序的審查人力都非常短缺啦也讓院長知道啦 因為這檔位重災區啦都是在屬於比較偏鄉啦那你偏鄉的公所 區公所一般的編制人力就比較少那你現在鄉鄉下來喔 很多東西啦所以審查的速度很慢那我希望這個部分啊 中央現在啊有一點可以來"},{"start":235.866,"end":263.688,"text":"協助的 因為在我們的特別條例裡面的預算你有編了一億元在工程會所有的行政程序都在這因為我們要籌設災後復原重建辦公室期程跟特別預算的執行差不多到明年2026年底那這裡面就有包含人力包括縣幹的人力 流程審查的人力 評估等等"},{"start":264.778,"end":280.757,"text":"所以既然預算變態特別條例裡面是不是希望能夠趕快補充這個部分的審查人力先請陳主委解釋一下人數上的問題以及現在行政的資源人力問題因為數量的確很龐大"},{"start":284.962,"end":306.85,"text":"來申請了超過4萬件就台南市政府而言那重災區有17個區公所那我到區公所去看台南市政府每個區公所這17個區公所有進駐檢驗級以上的同仁相關人員都有進駐那每個區公所他也會動員志工在那邊協助審查"},{"start":307.29,"end":333.385,"text":"那當然一開始是量很多啦所以他為了謹慎因為我們有區分20平方公尺以下的20平方公尺以上是100平方公尺以上報來的資料未必準確啦所以承辦第一線的確壓力很大他也這個很謹慎的在審查不過現在已經五成以上都已經發放但是我用這個手裡給你們兩個參考就是說現在計案如三啦現在待審查的還有13,666件"},{"start":336.302,"end":364.648,"text":"因為申請了4萬多件 所以已經半數以上一個多月了喔 已經撥補下去了所以我是不是請這個部分看怎麼來協助 在增派人力因為你已經特別預算 你有兩個這個部分的預算了好 再來 不然蔡英文會認為我就送去申請衛助金 到現在也沒有消息到底是有準沒準 我是符合請領多少所以這樣子的話 也會產生民眾的誤解"},{"start":366.712,"end":381.692,"text":"這點我們請中央政府來注意一下還有我們房屋的修繕剛才我們指揮官 曾經的主委也特別報告政府設立一個媒合的平台數字先後有落差 但差不了多少"},{"start":383.639,"end":386.141,"text":"那完成簽約的目前只有405件所以喔"},{"start":405.936,"end":432.991,"text":"我同意 那我也支持 那我也加入政府的媒合平台到現在完成簽約的只有百分之十三啦好 完工的企鶴啊一百三十八斤啦占所有參與媒合平台的總戶數只有百分之四點五啦一個多月的時間啦齁所以如果你照這樣看下去"},{"start":434.473,"end":462.666,"text":"災後的修繕工作恐怕要 要休息很久我跟委員報告 申請件數將近四萬那麼區公所一一打電話去問或者是李幹事去家裡去問已經打百分之九十九 百分之九十九以上都問過了那需要來媒合的大概三千多萬你這有嚇啦你登記申請的跟完成媒合的因為你現在報告都報告九十九百嘛"},{"start":463.486,"end":482.702,"text":"這個我同意啦 這個是問過的有99%都同意來加入我們的媒合平台不是 這個沒有錯啦就是問過的99%以上那他同意政府來媒合大概3000處左右到8月22日是3263啦如果到8月25日應該有3500左右這裡面呢 媒合中的"},{"start":483.462,"end":501.934,"text":"三千多的 也有不參與的啦你意思是說我們沒有參加就對了他同意參與煤河 有的他已經自行修建或等待修建 那出品有人在做他就拜託他要做所以有需求的是三千五左右啦那這三千五呢 安排煤河 已經安排在煤河中的"},{"start":504.295,"end":529.336,"text":"已經98%以上的那因為裡面他有一些會比價所以呢所以才有這個簽約數大概600左右到今天應該600左右所以這個比例還不算很低啦你是針對4萬嗎如果是針對說他有需求的應該是3000了你的比例應該是我參與我同意我加入政府的媒體平台你到底"},{"start":530.046,"end":549.756,"text":"跟我們簽約的已經完工了那這個比例目前為止啊恐怕還很低啦所以 第一點你現在 剛才那指揮官有報告我們把全國的公班調來支援台南我不知道可以支援多久啦我希望喔 這時間可能要比我們想像的更長啦這時間可能要再等"},{"start":552.903,"end":579.662,"text":"陳主委你懂我意思吧這個那天禮拜六總統在台南訪視的時候他有說啦就是已經確定要媒合給這個廠商來做了沒有做好公班不會撤退好好好 請讓大家放心啦你如果參與我的政府的平台那我一定要幫你介紹公班啦你的意思是這樣嘛對那我們也希望這個時間能夠再加快"},{"start":580.757,"end":595.614,"text":"因為現在大家去電機後 他們都會覺得說我就當政府要來去嘛那你有知道齁 災民的心理是度日如年啊他們現在除了派去陪他 不能住他就等於沒有辦法回復到災前的生活嘛"},{"start":596.511,"end":621.104,"text":"如果以目前的來看 你說完工的有100多件嘛完工167 施工中263 備料145這是8月22 那如果今天來看應該是600件以上請我們再加油 這樣好不好我們希望再盡快加快速度啦另外就是還有一個數字就是 董事踢土的啦"},{"start":622.493,"end":624.435,"text":"我希望這個訊息能夠讓更多人知道"},{"start":642.096,"end":667.798,"text":"因為他那處派去 他如果不在大陰 沒用沒要修理他如果不把他拆掉 會成為環境的一個負擔啦你現在再落河沖浪喔 變成有可能啦 登閣落啦種種環境的汙染拆除的 我們政府會負擔低收 中低收 跟關懷戶的修繕 政府也會全額負擔你要願意 願意加入我們拆除 全部都讓他負擔嘛再來我們聽到那個石明華的青運啦"},{"start":668.84,"end":684.348,"text":"因為沒有這次的風災我們不知道很多人沒有注意到我們其實台灣的石棉瓦這個是非常嚴重的一項這真是我們的環境的負擔嘛我這裡有一個全國的一個調查啦台南的石棉瓦"},{"start":688.058,"end":708.025,"text":"總量大概10萬噸那這一次的風災啊大概帶清運有1萬5千噸那環境部已經開始進行災區的相關的一個清運那現在還有一個問題啦我請部長要考量一下就是說破損的石棉瓦的拆除問題你知道 這石棉瓦你不會找得到"},{"start":710.511,"end":736.69,"text":"要專業的人員才能拆喔他一破碎啊就一些細微纖維就飛出來了那個人 連皮膚都不可以碰觸到所以你拆除啦 一定要全副武裝啦防塵衣啦 護目鏡啦NGO服 口罩啦頂頂喔 手套所以拆除的速度也很慢相對的啊我如果怕他 我要拖很麻煩他也要叫個人啦這個法文喔 環境部對於"},{"start":738.365,"end":764.586,"text":"想要拆除 而目前就說他願意拆除他破損的生命好的房屋這部分要怎麼破損啊報告委員 那個內政部國土署他有補助一戶是兩萬塊然後所謂農蓄社也有然後一般的工廠也有現在有三個補助那我們環境部是負責清運的那清運也謝謝陳靜德政委協調還有院長也支持所以目前的這個經費在台南嘉義是沒有問題的"},{"start":765.492,"end":786.616,"text":"所以你現在負責一般民宅的薪金多少兩萬 工資呢工資二十萬所以不分資格啦 你只要願意拆我就補助你兩萬的拆除費用啦接下來就清運的事情啦這個在特別預算裡面我們也有編列啦我們希望利用這篇把過去這個環境的災難趕快把它處理掉"},{"start":790.283,"end":805.488,"text":"最後那個院長我也再次肯定院長因為本期在上次總質詢在質詢風災的時候我也特別有提到就是電網的韌性還有電纜的地下化問題"},{"start":806.656,"end":835.707,"text":"那我當時也特別明確指出啦希望能夠就在台17和台19因為這兩條路的基礎建設比較不嚴重所以你可以優先來列為電纜地下化的地方所以這次你也有列進來這一點喔電柱的評估台17台19兩線他們會優先來考量除非他是一個易淹水的或是地層下限或是土質鬆軟的那我們會克足一些工程上的困難來籌措裁員"},{"start":836.187,"end":856.783,"text":"那有一點我要特別提醒院長 除了電網台電的電纜以外我們這次風災也檢驗到我們的網路訊號 電信這現在三間 中華電信 台客大還有遠傳知道他們的訊號塔都有倒下來 幹嘛 讓基地來破損"},{"start":858.578,"end":876.224,"text":"我覺得啦 因為我們對他們怎麼設立這個信號的鐵塔其實是沒有一個標準要求我認為相關單位 NCC 這個部分你應該要要求電信業者 台電的喔 他們都有抗風系數喔"},{"start":877.196,"end":878.117,"text":"這個應該要因為他也要列為重要的國安基礎建設"},{"start":897.791,"end":925.704,"text":"那他們這次拿到特許執照我想大家都賺大錢啦遠傳也好 台客大也好 中華電信啦所以應該要負起最基本的一個社會責任他們應該要完善他們的基礎設施啦不然他們現在這幾天才知道他們都亂搞 亂調啦照電話調 所以電話調到他們就不信了網路也不信 電話也不信我會請你們相關的機關啊列為一個國家標準好不好 言語格的管制一定要他們提高標準而且設置的時候啊"},{"start":932.232,"end":933.315,"text":"好 謝謝林俊憲維基"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":148,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（14時51分）謝謝院長。本席邀請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：院長好。院長，本席肯定、也感謝行政院即刻呼應本席最早提出的，希望我們能夠提出特別條例來搶救這一次可以說造成臺灣百年史上最嚴重的一次風災。","首先，我想跟院長說，我們必須要了解真實的狀況，我現在發現中央跟地方的數據會有落差，譬如說，按照中央所統計的，我們現在受理的屋損件數有3萬9,000件，核發的有1萬8,600件；但是根據臺南市政府受理的件數已經有4萬3,352件，核發的有2萬9,000件，這個落差在什麼地方？臺南市政府受理還有核發的件數都是全市，但是現在中央所公布的數字都是只有重災區，就是臺南市的17個行政區，所以這個會產生一個數字的落差，因為這些數字都公布在網路上，我希望中央跟地方公布的數字應該要一致才對。臺南市公布的是全市，要知道這一次的災區宣告是全臺南市都屬於災區，但是我們中央現在所公布的受理件數、核發件數，就是說房子壞掉來申報的，以及核定的數字，跟地方是有很大的不一樣。","這個部分我們再來看一下，為什麼核發件數跟實際受理件數會有落差呢？當然我們有一些行政作業，院長，你知道嘛！第一個，如果申請品項跟提供的一些照片、影片證據有一點落差，有些是需要現勘；有的是申請，但不符合資格，比如說沒有實際居住的事實；有些是重複送件，這些都需要人力來審查，所以我們現在缺的人力不是只有在現場施工的工班人力，行政程序的人力也非常的需求。你看，按照臺南市政府的數字，現在申請，但還沒確定可不可以請領慰助金的有1萬3,600戶，如果按照中央的數字，他來申請慰助金，還沒有核定、也不知道可不可以符合資格的有超過2萬戶，這就是我跟你說的，連行政程序的審查人力都非常短缺，也讓院長知道，因為這裡的重災區都是屬於比較偏鄉的，偏鄉的區公所本來編制的人力就比較少，現在突然湧進好幾萬件，審查的速度很慢。我希望這個部分，中央現在有一點可以來協助的，因為在我們特別條例裡面的預算，你有編了1億元在工程會，所有的行政程序都在這裡，因為我們說要籌設災後復原重建辦公室，它的期程跟特別預算的執行大概到明（2026）年年底，這裡面就有包含人力（現勘、流程、審查、評估等等），所以既然預算編在特別條例裡面，是不是希望能夠趕快補充這個部分的審查人力？這個是不是請……"],["卓院長榮泰：先請陳主委解釋一下人數上的問題，以及現在行政的支援人力問題。"],["林委員俊憲：請陳金德主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：報告委員，這個數量的確龐大，因為來申請的超過4萬件，就臺南市政府而言，重災區有17個區公所，那麼我去看臺南市政府區公所，這17個區公所每個都有進駐簡任級以上同仁及相關人員，也會動員志工在那邊協助審查。當然一開始是量很多，所以為了謹慎，因為我們有區分20平方公尺以下、20平方公尺以上，甚至100平方公尺以上，報來的資料未必準確，所以第一線承辦人員的確壓力很大，他也很謹慎地在審查，不過現在已經五成以上都已經發放……"],["林委員俊憲：我知道，但是我用這個數據給你們兩個參考，就是說現在積案如山，現在待審查的還有1萬3,666件，所以……"],["陳主任委員金德：因為申請了四萬多件，所以半數以上已經撥補下去了。"],["林委員俊憲：一個多月了，所以這個部分是不是看怎麼來協助再增派人力？因為你的特別預算已經有編製到這個部分的預算。不然災民會認為送去申請的慰助金到現在也沒有消息，到底是有准還是不准？是符合請領多少？所以這樣子的話，也會產生民眾的誤解，這點也請中央注意一下。","還有我們房屋的修繕，剛剛指揮官陳金德主委也特別報告，政府設立一個媒合的平臺，數字稍微有落差，但差不了多少。現在完成媒合的，也讓我們卓院長知道，就是說我的房子壞掉，我現在來登記，政府要幫我介紹、媒合工班幫我蓋，有3,095件；完成簽約的目前只有405件，所以我同意、我也支持、我也加入政府的媒合平臺，到現在完成簽約的只有13%；完工蓋好的138間，占所有參與媒合平臺的總戶數只有4.5%，一個多月的時間，所以如果你照這樣看下去，災後的修繕工作恐怕要拉很長。"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，申請件數將近4萬，那麼區公所一一打電話去問或是里幹事去家裡問，已經達99%以上都問過了。"],["林委員俊憲：我知道。"],["陳主任委員金德：需要媒合的大概三千出頭……"],["林委員俊憲：你這裡有寫，登記申請的跟完成媒合的，因為你的報告都寫99%，這個我同意啦！"],["陳主任委員金德：這個是問過的。"],["林委員俊憲：有99%都同意加入我們的媒合平臺。"],["陳主任委員金德：不是。"],["林委員俊憲：這個沒有錯。"],["陳主任委員金德：就是問過的99%以上，他同意政府媒合的大概三千出頭，到8月22日是3,263，如果到8月25日應該有3,500左右，這裡面三千多媒合中的……"],["林委員俊憲：你的意思是說也有不參加的？他同意參與媒合，但是他……"],["陳主任委員金德：有的他已經自行修建或等待修建，鄰居有人在做，他就拜託要做，所以有需求的是3,500左右，這3,500已經安排在媒合中、有找廠商跟他說的已經98%以上，因為裡面有一些會比價，所以到今天簽約數大概600左右，這個比例還不算很低啦……"],["林委員俊憲：差不多5、6%而已……"],["陳主任委員金德：不，你是針對4萬，如果是針對有需求的應該是3,000啦。"],["林委員俊憲：你的比例應該是，我參與、我同意、我加入政府的媒合平臺，有簽約的、已經完工的，這個比例目前為止恐怕還很低啦！所以第一點，剛才指揮官有報告，你們把全國的工班調來支援臺南，我不知道可以支援多久？我覺得這個時間可能要比我們想像得更長，這個時間可能要更長，陳主委，你懂我的意思吧？"],["陳主任委員金德：禮拜六總統在臺南訪視的時候，他有說已經確定要媒合給廠商來做了，沒有做好工班不會撤退。"],["林委員俊憲：好，最重要讓大家放心啦。你若參與政府的平臺，我一定會幫你介紹工班，你的意思是這樣嘛？"],["陳主任委員金德：對。"],["林委員俊憲：我們也希望時間能夠再加快，因為現在大家去登記之後，都會覺得我就等政府來蓋，你要知道災民的心裡是度日如年啦！他們現在房子壞了、破了，不能住了，他就等於沒有辦法回復到災前的生活嘛，如果以目前來看，你說完工的有一百多件？"],["陳主任委員金德：完工167、施工中263、備料145，這是到8月22日，如果以今天來看應該是600件以上。"],["林委員俊憲：請你們再加油，好不好？希望再儘快、加快速度。另外，還有一個數字是同意拆除，就是房子沒有在住，或者已經破損不堪，同意完全拆除的，這個部分應該也要優先來辦理。"],["陳主任委員金德：同意拆除的全部由政府來負擔費用，包括廢棄物的去化等等。"],["林委員俊憲：我希望這個訊息能夠讓更多人知道，因為他的房子壞了，如果沒有在住、沒有要修理，若沒有把它拆掉會成為環境的一個負擔。萬一下雨或怎麼樣，有可能造成登革熱等種種環境的污染。"],["卓院長榮泰：拆除的我們政府會負擔，低收、中低收跟關懷戶的修繕，政府也會全額負擔。"],["林委員俊憲：只要願意加入拆除，全部由政府替他們負擔嘛！","再來，石綿瓦的清運，如果沒有這次的風災，我們不知道，很多人沒有注意到其實臺灣的石綿瓦是非常嚴重的一項真正的環境負擔，我這裡有一個全國的調查，臺南石綿瓦的總量大概10萬噸，這一次的風災，大概待清運有1萬5,000噸，環境部已經開始進行災區相關的清運。現在還有一個問題，我請部長要考量一下，就是破損的石綿瓦拆除的問題，院長，你知道石綿瓦不能亂拆，那個要專業的人員才能拆，它一破碎細微纖維就飛出來，那個連人的皮膚都不可以碰觸到，所以拆除一定要全副武裝，防塵衣、護目鏡、N95口罩、手套等等，所以拆除的速度也很慢，相對的，如果破了要拆也很麻煩，一樣也找不到人幫忙，環境部對於目前願意拆除破損的石綿瓦房屋，這個部分有沒有補助？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，內政部國土署有補助一戶是2萬塊，所謂農畜舍也有，一般工廠也有，現在有三個補助。我們環境部是負責清運的，清運也謝謝陳金德政委協調，還有院長也支持，所以目前的經費在臺南、嘉義是沒有問題的。"],["林委員俊憲：所以你現在拆石綿瓦，一般民宅的補助是多少？"],["彭部長啓明：2萬。"],["林委員俊憲：工廠呢？"],["彭部長啓明：工廠20萬。"],["林委員俊憲：所以不分資格，你只要願意拆，就補助2萬的拆除費用。"],["彭部長啓明：對、對。"],["林委員俊憲：接下來就清運的事情，這個在特別預算裡面也有編列，我們希望利用這次把過去環境的災難趕快處理掉。","最後，我也再次肯定院長，因為本席在上次的總質詢，在質詢風災的時候，我也特別有提到電網的韌性，還有電纜的地下化問題，我當時也特別明確指出，希望能夠在台17和台19，因為這2條路的基礎建設比較好，比較不會淹水，所以你可以優先列為電纜地下化的地方，所以這次你也有列進來，這一點我們要肯定……"],["卓院長榮泰：台17和台19兩線的評估，他們會優先來考量，除非它是一個易淹水或是地層下陷或是土質鬆軟的地方，我們會克除一些工程上的困難來籌措財源。"],["林委員俊憲：好，有一點我要特別提醒院長，除了電網、台電的電纜以外，我們這次風災也檢驗到我們的網路訊號、電信，電信現在有三間，包含中華電信、台哥大還有遠傳，這次他們的訊號塔都倒下來，基地臺破損，因為我們對於他們怎麼設立訊號塔，其實沒有標準要求，我認為相關單位NCC在這個部分應該要要求電信業者，台電的設備都有抗風係數，包含電纜、電線、電桿是有一個標準。"],["卓院長榮泰：有，現在高抗災的一些基地臺，好像可以抗15級風……"],["林委員俊憲：抗15級風，還有不斷電72小時。"],["卓院長榮泰：還有發電設備等等。"],["林委員俊憲：它也要列為重要的國安基礎建設，他們這些業者拿到特許執照，我想大家都賺大錢啦，遠傳也好、台哥大也好、中華電信也好，所以應該要負起最基本的社會責任，他們應該要完善他們的基礎設施，不然像這次風災來，才知道他們都亂牽、亂掛，掛在電桿上，所以電桿倒了就沒訊號了，網路也沒了，電話也沒了，這個要列為一個國家標準，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請相關機關嚴格的管制，一定要他們提高標準，而且設置的時候不能隨隨便便的拉電線、拉他們的通訊線。"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝院長及兩位部長。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，現在在我們議場二樓旁聽，來自美國國會助理訪問團，Welcome to Legislative Yuan！我們掌聲鼓勵一下。","接下來，請郭國文委員質詢，蘇清泉委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-26","speakers":["韓國瑜","林俊憲","郭國文","蘇清泉","邱議瑩","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","王育敏","何欣純","徐巧芯"],"page_start":216,"meetingDate":["2025-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1147401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第26次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告\n「中央政府丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}