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郭志輝說啊後面還有更大尾的要不要約談郭志輝"},{"start":194.248,"end":208.103,"text":"這個政績當然也就辦到哪裡 我完全尊重台北地檢署的偵查的一個計畫台北地檢署的偵查進度由誰決定的台北地檢署的偵查進度由誰決定的這由台北地檢署的偵查團隊在決定偵查團隊嘛 好是由陳辦檢察官還是由檢察長來決定的"},{"start":216.492,"end":232.127,"text":"這我不清楚 奇怪了所以嘛 你要看 具體個案上面到底要聽陳辦檢察官的還是聽檢察長的為什麼問你這個問題 這很重要啊這會涉及到什麼 上級有沒有指導下級嘛"},{"start":233.448,"end":258.291,"text":"這很重要啊 所以我才問你啊從法務部的立場 從規範的觀點應該要聽誰的 聽懲辦檢察官的 還是聽檢察長的這個偵查團體檢查議題嘛 本來就是一個偵查團隊嘛是 好 你是不是知道 這個案子去年就要動了這個案件本來就是在鎮長山 你是不是知道這個案子去年就要動了這個我不清楚 這你不清楚 那我現在跟你講"},{"start":259.878,"end":286.571,"text":"我在這邊直接公開檢舉啦讓你們回去查啦這個案子 去年就要動啦是誰叫懲辦檢察官不要動啦部長應該也不知道王俊麗叫懲辦檢察官不要動啊王俊麗叫懲辦檢察官不要動啊怎麼會搞到823以後才開始動這個案子整整押了一年欸 這個案子押一年你知不知道你也不知道嘛"},{"start":287.861,"end":300.018,"text":"在黑箱裡面的作業用檢查一體來遮掩一堆案子能壓就壓 能拖就拖 能混就混配合著政治在辦案"},{"start":301.468,"end":325.957,"text":"還有臉在這邊講尊重檢察官的偵辦沒有關係啊我在這邊講話我負責嘛承辦檢察官去年要動王俊麗說不要動拖到823以後才動拖到823以後才動就像郭志輝講的啦大圍跑掉了啦大圍跑掉了啦順便去了解一下拖了這麼久有沒有洩密的問題接下來"},{"start":328.499,"end":351.816,"text":"避免執政者以人事控制個案2017年施改國際會議決議的內容民進黨秘書長憑什麼喬司法人事啊民進黨秘書長可以喬司法人事嗎這個就是所謂的什麼司法獨立檢察官獨立嗎王俊麗現在北檢啊當紅檢察官啊"},{"start":353.343,"end":377.151,"text":"結果他當上調查局局長竟然是在他桃園地檢署任內他所偵辦貪污犯的犯罪嫌疑人鄭文燦去幫他喬的這個事情也太荒謬了吧這個事情也太荒謬了吧部長一直在這邊說尊重檢察官司法獨立檢察官獨立獨立在哪裡獨立在哪裡"},{"start":380.097,"end":396.889,"text":"一個犯罪嫌疑人王俊麗是檢察長負責偵辦這個案件最後還牽結結果王俊麗當上調查局局長是鄭文燦去喬的部長這個符合2017年思考國事會議決議的內容嗎"},{"start":402.166,"end":415.505,"text":"這個怎麼樣這個怎麼那個案完的這件 高檢是在偵查中了嘛所以要拖多久 反正以拖待變嘛在這邊受到社會質疑的時候 我們有在調查了啦"},{"start":416.887,"end":441.474,"text":"要調查到什麼時候 不知道要調查多久 不知道相關的案子啊 慶祝難輸啊慶祝難輸啊三年前這個國會 上一屆的國會在調查淨電勢必案的時候一模一樣的論調啦司法檢調在調查了啦調查什麼現在案子在北檢檢察官手上啊我公開在國會講過啊"},{"start":443.598,"end":468.758,"text":"人家調查員要動檢察官說不准動通通不准動這樣的司法偵辦有獨立性 有公信力看著顏色在辦案而已啦抓小放大啦能拖就拖 能混就混再來看這些被爆料出來的"},{"start":470.266,"end":497.034,"text":"臨時要很大他關說的司法人士一件一件全部符合客觀事實上一次廉政署的副署長在這邊的時候我就問他問他說請託關桌人士要不要進行廉政登錄他給我的回答是要要進行廉政登錄我後來去文法務部請教有做廉政登錄嗎你們有回文給我有做廉政登錄嗎"},{"start":498.956,"end":506.882,"text":"有嗎沒有登錄依照公務人員廉政倫理規範應該產生什麼法律效果所以依照公務人員廉政倫理規範應該產生什麼法律效果對不起喔第一個你已經確認沒登錄了嘛"},{"start":517.911,"end":532.467,"text":"第二個 我現在問你嘛沒有登錄應該產生什麼法律效果嗎這麼簡單的問題都不敢回答喔這個要尊重 這個還沒有調查問我怎麼去回答個案的問題呢奇怪了 公務人員廉政倫理規範是行政調查還是刑事調查"},{"start":534.102,"end":551.227,"text":"你當一個部長 連行政調查跟刑事調查都搞不清楚喔拜託喔 不要在這邊講空話 形成並行啦行政調查是一回事 司法調查是一回事你怎麼當一個法務部部長 連這麼基本的ABC都搞不清楚啊"},{"start":551.747,"end":581.076,"text":"那我就問你嘛有關於廉政倫理是行政調查還是刑事調查是行政調查還是刑事調查我已經跟委員答覆了就是這個沒有請託關稅的登錄嘛所以下一個問題嘛違反公務人員的廉政倫理規範是行政事項還是刑事事項是行政事項還是刑事事項不敢回答喔法學的ABC不敢回答喔"},{"start":582.503,"end":607.2,"text":"這就是行政事項啊行政事項你們法務部現在做什麼全部推給刑事調查哇 真好用欸真便利欸刑事調查現在變成了你們遇到廉政倫理規範行政該處理的車修部啦動都不用動喔可以這樣嗎可以這樣嗎可以這樣嗎"},{"start":615.402,"end":640.137,"text":"你現在在等到時間 看著表 看時間拖過去沒有是不是還笑得出來 看著表 哇 我時間終於混過去啦我在上面問問題 我就是不回答 看你要怎麼辦來 我們接下來繼續往下看思改國事會議 會議的結論 檢審會要不要加入外部委員"},{"start":641.599,"end":665.682,"text":"這個我反對 這個你反對喔所以你個人的意志超越了司改國事會議的決議嘛非常的有擔當啊現在我們賴清德任命的法務部部長一個人大聲的提呼說我反對檢察官人事委員會有外部委員難怪嘛 難怪司改國事會議"},{"start":666.903,"end":685.029,"text":"不僅僅是放天燈 大敗敗現在是民進黨政府任命的法務部部長直接宣布司改國事會議歸司改國事會議的找一堆學者專家來 大家來共同討論的結論我法務部部長鄭明謙 我就是反對 真厲害"},{"start":690.951,"end":696.956,"text":"那這樣子我要把撕改國事會議全部丟到垃圾桶去就好了嘛用個人的一個意志來凌駕撕改國事會議的決議來看一下齁對 好 來來來全中華民國通通都不懂只有你鄭明謙一個人懂"},{"start":713.929,"end":716.851,"text":"這不是司改國是會議的決議嗎這不是司改國是會議的決議嗎來看一下 只有你一個人懂嗎司法改革國是會議第三組分組會議 增開會議決議"},{"start":730.389,"end":755.788,"text":"檢查人事制度的民主化為使檢查人事制度符合民主問責並回應多元價值法務部檢察官人事審議委員應比照司法院法官人事審議委員會規定加入外部委員來有請司法院副秘書長法官人事審議委員會有沒有外部委員有的"},{"start":756.784,"end":766.497,"text":"司改國事會議的決議對司法院而言現在算什麼 算垃圾是不是司改國事會議的決議對司法院而言到底還算不算個東西"},{"start":768.069,"end":779.858,"text":"到底還算不算個東西你站在你旁邊的法務部長很傲慢啦我部長反對啦私下國事會議開什麼 不好意思齁我沒有請教你不要搶人家的麥克風那個法務部你那個聽名權跟伙覺權還有沒有那個審議權"},{"start":786.803,"end":803.763,"text":"一樣一樣來啦你不能這樣講啦我只有問你一件事情嘛司法院的是不是有提名權跟審議權有沒有否決權嘛阿你今天在這邊在國會公然講我反對司法院國事會議的決議我現在在請教司法院副秘書長你有夠沒禮貌的"},{"start":804.324,"end":826.399,"text":"沒有我同意 沒有主席同意自己站在旁邊 麥克風就搶來講喔我現在在請教司法院的副秘書長寧願你現在當法務部部長在國會裡面愛幹嘛就幹嘛喔我有請你回答嗎我有請你回答嗎現在法務部部長是怎麼樣全國檢調在我手上誰敢對我怎麼樣"},{"start":832.313,"end":853.407,"text":"這麼囂張喔 你在國會殿堂就這麼囂張喔走出這個地方來請司法院副秘書長來施改國事會議的決議對於現在的司法院而言算什麼一個報告委員齁 就是司法院就我們所主管的這些那個法案還有政策呢我們還是會本於我們主管那個機關就是來審議的"},{"start":856.671,"end":876.239,"text":"對啊 你還是沒有回答我問題啊史凱國治會議的決議對司法院算什麼法務部部長表明的很清楚啦史凱國治會議的決議對我現任賴清德所任命的證明簽根本是空氣啊一點都不重要啦我證明簽說了算啦因為我現在當法務部部長"},{"start":879.242,"end":896.117,"text":"讓大家所有參與史改國式會議全國的學者專家所有的外部委員大家聽清楚以後民進黨要召開任何的國式會議不要再相信民進黨了找來有什麼用花了納稅人大筆的銀子"},{"start":898.231,"end":910.997,"text":"學者專家做了決議我就沒有要遵守嘛重點那個是一個民主化的問題現在是檢察官民主化的問題嘛那現在已經是完全檢察官票選的民主化的問題了什麼時候國會的規矩變這樣趙偉什麼時候司法法治委員會的規矩變這樣反正我們就依照立委的想要問誰現在沒有請他上來回答了可以自己上來搶麥克風喔"},{"start":925.822,"end":949.352,"text":"什麼時候受到法治委員會的規矩變這樣我有說錯嗎斯卡國是會議的決議我白紙黑紙都貼在這邊耶這不是我黃國昌一個人講的這是第三分組第一次增開會議的決議法官的是審議委員會法官喔人家都有外部委員"},{"start":951.368,"end":971.143,"text":"思改國際會議做這樣的決議司法院也遵守但我們現在的法務部很厲害太上皇機關我不遵守就是不遵守你個人反對沒有關係你個人反對你繼續反對修法到底會過不會過是立法院決定不是你鄭明謙一個人決定"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":298,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（9時30分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請法務部部長、司法院副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩部長、副秘。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早安。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["黃委員國昌：兩位早。臺大法學院顏厥安教授針對民進黨所發動的大惡霸，他特別從憲政的觀點寫了一篇令人省思的文章。他說這一場憑空發動的無差別大罷免，就是一場耍法術、走歪路的曲徑解散國會，人民的選擇做出來了，顏厥安教授主張，這個時候不但卓院長應該要辭職下臺，整個內閣都應該打掉重練。來，請教部長贊不贊成？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是顏教授的意見……"],["黃委員國昌：你贊不贊成？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們尊重。"],["黃委員國昌：你個人贊不贊成？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不講個人意見。"],["黃委員國昌：好，你不講個人意見，來看一下，你有遞辭職信嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我不需要在這邊做……"],["黃委員國昌：你不需要在這邊說明，所以你的意思是什麼？部長有沒有遞辭職信、有沒有展現風骨，不需要跟國會說明嗎？現在官這麼大喔！"],["鄭部長銘謙：內閣要不要改組……"],["黃委員國昌：我現在不是問內閣要不要改組，我是問你有沒有遞辭職信？你有沒有遞辭職信？你居功厥偉，你有沒有遞辭職信？有還是沒有？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不曉得為什麼要遞辭職信。"],["黃委員國昌：你自己覺得嘛，你為什麼要遞辭職信？學者主張整個內閣都要打掉重練，你很有信心啊？你覺得你為什麼要遞辭職信？你說得沒有錯啊！你放心啦！你居功厥偉，不會要你辭職啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：學者要不要……尊重學者的意見。"],["黃委員國昌：一定留任你的啦，你這麼好用，怎麼會要你遞辭職信呢？對不對？這麼好用，怎麼會要你遞辭職信呢？功在黨國，對民進黨貢獻非常的大，怎麼會要你遞辭職信？放心啦，你的官位非常的穩，跟著黨走，依照黨的意志，司法怎麼搞爛都沒有關係！"],["鄭部長銘謙：你不要學對岸的這些語調啦！"],["黃委員國昌：接下來……我用什麼語調跟你質詢不是你在這邊可以說三道四的，什麼叫做我不要學、用什麼語調？你什麼態度啊？你什麼態度啊？今天是你在備詢還是我在備詢啊？在國會這麼囂張喔？這麼囂張喔？這個內閣有在反省嗎？有在檢討嗎？部長在這裡講話這麼囂張喔？","來，爆發了大綠能弊案，小英男孩被抓了，郭智輝說後面還有更大尾的。要不要約談郭智輝？"],["鄭部長銘謙：證據到哪裡就辦到哪裡，我完全尊重臺北地檢署的偵查計畫。"],["黃委員國昌：臺北地檢署的偵查進度是由誰決定的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不能去干涉、指導個案。"],["黃委員國昌：所以臺北地檢署的偵查進度是由誰決定的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：由臺北地檢署的偵查團隊決定。"],["黃委員國昌：偵查團隊，好，是由承辦檢察官還是由檢察長決定的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這我不清楚。"],["黃委員國昌：這你不清楚，奇怪了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為我不會指導、介入、干涉……"],["黃委員國昌：所以你看具體個案到底要聽承辦檢察官的還是聽檢察長的？為什麼問你這個問題？這很重要啊！這會涉及到什麼？上級有沒有指導下級嘛！這很重要啊！所以我才問你啊！從法務部的立場，從規範的觀點……"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為我已經講過我不干涉個案……"],["黃委員國昌：應該要聽誰的？聽承辦檢察官的，還是聽檢察長的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：偵查團隊是檢察一體，本來就是一個偵查團隊嘛！"],["黃委員國昌：是，好，你知不知道這個案子去年就要動了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個案件本來就是在……"],["黃委員國昌：你知不知道這個案子去年就要動了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我不清楚。"],["黃委員國昌：這個你不清楚，那我現在跟你講，我在這邊直接公開檢舉，讓你們回去查，這個案子去年就要動了，是誰叫承辦檢察官不要動？部長應該也不知道，王俊力叫承辦檢察官不要動，王俊力叫承辦檢察官不要動，怎麼會搞到823以後才開始動這個案子？整整壓了1年耶！這個案子壓1年，你知不知道？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我不清楚。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛，你也不知道嘛！在黑箱裡面的作業，用檢察一體來遮掩，一堆案子能壓就壓、能拖就拖、能混就混，配合著政治在辦案，還有臉在這邊講，尊重檢察官的偵辦。沒有關係啊！我在這邊講話我負責嘛！承辦檢察官去年要動，王俊力說不要動，拖到823以後才動，就像郭智輝講的，大尾跑掉了啦！順便去了解一下，拖了這麼久有沒有洩密的問題。","接下來，避免執政者以人事控制個案，2017年司改國是會議決議的內容，民進黨秘書長憑什麼喬司法人事？民進黨秘書長可以喬司法人事嗎？這就是所謂的司法獨立、檢察官獨立嗎？王俊力在北檢是當紅檢察官，結果當上調查局局長，竟然是在他桃園地檢署任內，他所偵辦貪污犯的犯罪嫌疑人鄭文燦去幫他喬的，這個事情也太荒謬了吧！這個事情也太荒謬了吧！部長一直在這邊說，尊重檢察官，司法獨立、檢察官獨立。獨立在哪裡？獨立在哪裡？一個犯罪嫌疑人，王俊力是檢察長，負責偵辦這個案件，最後還簽結，結果王俊力當上調查局局長，是鄭文燦去喬的。部長，這個符合2017年司改國是會議決議的內容嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個……"],["黃委員國昌：這個怎麼樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：關於暗網的這件，高檢已經在偵查中了……"],["黃委員國昌：對，所以呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：高檢署的調查……"],["黃委員國昌：要拖多久？反正以拖待變嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：在做司法調查……"],["黃委員國昌：受到社會質疑的時候就說我們有在調查了啦！要調查到什麼時候？不知道。要調查多久，不知道。相關的案子罄竹難書！罄竹難書啊！3年前這個國會，也就是上一屆國會在調查鏡電視弊案時是一模一樣的論調，司法檢調在調查了，調查什麼？現在案子在北檢檢察官手上啊！我公開在國會講過，人家調查人員要動，檢察官說不准動，通通不准動！這樣的司法偵辦有獨立性喔？有公信力喔？看著顏色在辦案而已啦！抓小放大啦！能拖就拖、能混就混。","再來，看這些被爆料出來的，林錫耀很大，他關說的司法人事一件一件全部符合客觀事實，上一次廉政署的副署長在這邊的時候我就問他，請託關說人士要不要進行廉政登錄？他給我的回答，要，要進行廉政登錄。我後來去文法務部請教有做廉政登錄嗎？你們有回文給我。有做廉政登錄嗎？有嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個沒有登錄。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有登錄？沒有登錄，依照公務人員廉政倫理規範應該產生什麼法律效果？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是不是請託關說還要再調查嘛！"],["黃委員國昌：對，所以依照公務人員廉政倫理規範應該產生什麼法律效果？"],["鄭部長銘謙：直接說什麼喬人事，這個還要再調查嘛！"],["黃委員國昌：對不起喔，第一個，你已經確認沒登錄了嘛！第二個，我現在問你，沒有登錄應該產生什麼法律效果？這麼簡單的問題都不敢回答喔？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要尊重……這個還沒有調查完，我怎麼去回答個案的問題呢？"],["黃委員國昌：奇怪了，公務人員廉政倫理規範是行政調查還是刑事調查？"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在事實……"],["黃委員國昌：你當一個部長，連行政調查跟刑事調查都搞不清楚喔？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這整個是在司法調查的階段……"],["黃委員國昌：拜託，不要在這邊講空話，刑懲並行，行政調查是一回事，司法調查是一回事，你怎麼當一個法務部部長，連這麼基本的ABC都搞不清楚啊？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個個案的問題要尊重調查，高檢署的調查……"],["黃委員國昌：我就問你，有關於廉政倫理是行政調查還是刑事調查？是行政調查還刑事調查？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我已經跟委員答復了，這個沒有請求關說的登錄，再來就是有沒有請託關說……"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛，所以再來下一個問題就是違反公務人員的廉政倫理規範是行政事項還是刑事事項？是行政事項還刑事事項？不敢回答喔？法學的ABC不敢回答喔？這就是行政事項啊！行政事項你們法務部現在做什麼？全部推給刑事調查，哇！真好用耶！真便利耶！刑事調查現在變成了你們遇到廉政倫理規範，行政該處理的遮羞布，動都不用動？可以這樣嗎？可以這樣嗎？可以這樣嗎？你現在在等到時間、看著錶、看時間拖過去沒有是不是？還笑得出來？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有，我並沒有笑，我在……"],["黃委員國昌：看著錶，哇！我時間終於混過去啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這邊就有……"],["黃委員國昌：本席在上面問問題，我就是不回答，看你要怎麼辦？","來，我們接下來繼續往下看，司改國是會議的結論，檢審會要不要加入外部委員？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我反對。"],["黃委員國昌：這個你反對喔？所以你個人的意志超越了司改國是會議的決議嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為我們現在責審委員有……"],["黃委員國昌：非常的有擔當啊！現在賴清德任命的法務部部長，一個人大聲的疾呼：我反對檢察官人事委員會有外部委員，難怪嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在檢察官的民選委員已經多過官派委員，這你不懂啦！現在我們檢察官……"],["黃委員國昌：難怪司改國是會議不僅僅是放天燈、大拜拜，現在是民進黨政府任命的法務部部長直接宣布司改國是會議歸司改國是會議，找一堆學者專家來……"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在檢察官票選的委員已經多過法務部的指定委員了……"],["黃委員國昌：共同討論的結論，法務部部長鄭銘謙就是反對！真厲害！這樣子把司改國是會議全部丟到垃圾桶去就好了嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員你說人事操作，這個完全是不實指控，這沒有引用外部委員的必要。"],["黃委員國昌：用個人的意志凌駕司改國是會議的決議。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對於檢察官的人事審議你根本不懂……"],["黃委員國昌：來看一下……"],["鄭部長銘謙：你完全不懂，票選多過官派……"],["黃委員國昌：對、對、對！全中華民國通通都不懂，只有你鄭銘謙一個人懂，這不是司改國是會議的決議嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：你的問題就是檢察官的ABC……"],["黃委員國昌：這不是司改國是會議的決議嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是檢察官的ABC，這個你不懂啦！"],["黃委員國昌：來，看一下！只有你一個人懂嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：不是我懂，這個檢察官都知道。"],["黃委員國昌：司法改革國是會議第三分組第一次增開會議的決議，在檢察人事制度的民主化部分，為使檢察人事制度符合民主問責並回應多元價值，法務部檢察官人事審議委員會應比照司法院法官人事審議委員會規定，加入外部委員。","有請司法院副秘書長，請問法官人事審議委員會有沒有外部委員？"],["王副秘書長梅英：有的。"],["黃委員國昌：司改國是會議的決議，對司法院而言，現在算什麼？算垃圾，是不是？司改國是會議的決議對司法院而言到底還算不算個東西？到底還算不算個東西？站在你旁邊的法務部長很傲慢啊！我部長反對啦！司改國是會議開什麼……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我跟你講，司法院……"],["黃委員國昌：不好意思，我沒有請教你，不要搶人家的麥克風。"],["鄭部長銘謙：法務部沒有提名權跟否決權，也沒有審議權。"],["黃委員國昌：一樣一樣來啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：你不能這樣講啦！"],["黃委員國昌：我只有問你一件事情，司改國是會議的決議你遵不遵守？"],["鄭部長銘謙：司法院是不是有提名權跟審議權？又有沒有否決權嘛？"],["黃委員國昌：你今天在國會這邊公然講反對司改國是會議的決議！我現在是在請教司法院副秘書長，你有夠沒禮貌的，沒有我同意，沒有主席同意，自己站在旁邊就把麥克風搶來講，我現在是在請教司法院副秘書長，你以為你現在當法務部部長，在國會裡面愛幹嘛就幹嘛喔！我有請你回答嗎？我有請你回答嗎？現在法務部部長是怎麼樣，全國檢調在我手上，誰敢對我怎麼樣，這麼囂張喔！你在國會殿堂就這麼囂張喔！走出這個地方。","來，請問司法院副秘書長，司改國是會議的決議對於現在的司法院而言算什麼？"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，司法院就我們所主管的法案及政策，我們還是會本於我們主管機關來審議的。"],["黃委員國昌：對，你還是沒有回答我問題啊。司改國是會議的決議對司法院算什麼？法務部部長表明得很清楚，司改國是會議的決議對現任賴清德所任命的鄭銘謙根本是空氣啊，一點都不重要，我鄭銘謙說了算，因為我現在當法務部部長。所有參與司改國是會議的全國學者專家、所有的外部委員，大家聽清楚，以後民進黨要召開任何的國是會議，不要再相信民進黨了，找來有什麼用？花了納稅人大筆的銀子，學者專家做了決議，我就沒有要遵守嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：重點那個是一個民主化的問題，現在是……"],["黃委員國昌：不好意思，我沒有請你回答，現在我是在請教司法院副秘書長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：……檢察官民主化的問題，現在已經落實，完全檢察官票選的，民主化的問題……"],["黃委員國昌：對不起，我在請教司法院副秘書長，什麼時候國會的規矩變變成這樣了？"],["主席：先等一下，就依照立委的質詢……"],["黃委員國昌：召委，什麼時候司法法制委員會的規矩變這樣了？"],["主席：我們就依照立委的質詢，想要問誰就問誰。"],["黃委員國昌：現在沒有請他上來回答的人可以自己上來搶麥克風喔？什麼時候司法法制委員會的規矩變這樣？我有說錯嗎？司改國是會議的決議，我白紙黑字都貼在這邊耶，這不是我黃國昌一個人講的，這是第三分組第一次增開會議的決議。法官人事審議委員會，法官喔，人家都有外部委員，司改國是會議做這樣的決議，司法院也遵守，但我們現在的法務部很厲害，太上皇機關，不遵守就是不遵守！你個人反對沒有關係，你個人反對就繼續反對，修法到底會過不會過是立法院決定的，不是你鄭銘謙一個人決定的！"],["主席：好，謝謝。","下一位輪由本席發言，麻煩羅委員來代理主席。"],["主席（羅委員智強代）：請吳宗憲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-25","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","羅智強","王義川","陳培瑜","王鴻薇","沈發惠","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲","吳思瑤"],"page_start":291,"meetingDate":["2025-08-27"],"gazette_id":"1147602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147602_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員陳秀寳\n等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第七十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「中華民國刑法部分條文修正\n草案」案、(五)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員\n邱鎮軍等19 人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條條文修正草案」案、 ( 七) 委員羅智強等18 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第七十七條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員吳宗憲等20人擬具「中華民國刑法部分\n條文修正草案」案；二、繼續併案審查(一)委員傅崐萁等25人、(二)委員郭昱晴等18人分別擬具\n「刑事訴訟法第七十一條及第一百七十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1147602_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}