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內政部好 部長"},{"start":16.727,"end":31.596,"text":"市長昨天這個卓院長在立法院被尋的時候針對我們114年的總預算先前在他論述的時候把凍結說成是誤說為刪除對這件事他表示道歉"},{"start":32.637,"end":46.187,"text":"媒體報導稱之為大罷免失利後身段變軟了所以我不禁在此要感慨如果沒有726沒有823的大罷免大失敗32比0的頑封的話"},{"start":48.608,"end":65.409,"text":"執政黨是否就不會承認說錯話就不會意識到過去正事不做不務正業應該趕快回歸到崗位上上井發條為風災為雨災所造成的重大傷害的復原來做正事"},{"start":66.63,"end":90.393,"text":"我們也看到總統面對災區的居民的需求總統前往視察竟然告訴災民家園的清理要由你們社區自行來處理房屋屋頂的修繕 蓋房布你們自己要去爬上去人民要求趕快修復通訊總統卻說我們郭國文委員的電話會通"},{"start":92.175,"end":96.971,"text":"所以這樣的一個談話我們感覺根本不知苦民所苦我想請問部長你當時在場嗎"},{"start":99.729,"end":126.025,"text":"總統去視察的時候你在場嗎抱歉我沒有過去你沒有過去嗎 蘇委部長所以我們現在就很納悶為什麼整個部會在整個總統去視察的時候包括內政部這麼重要的部會你會不在場呢報告委員因為丹納斯颱風還有0728還有0802這三個連續由內政部跟經濟部主導的行政院的災防中心我們都在處理有關救災的部分"},{"start":126.485,"end":153.362,"text":"那在第一时间的复原跟重建我们也是依照行政院的指导就是所有的SOP都在走所以总统过去视察的时候他有要求其他的部会没有要求你他就找我们消防署的同仁跟着去OK 好 这样我了解但是我想这一次的所造成的严重灾情我们充分显露政府灾害这个善后的韧性严重不足"},{"start":154.523,"end":168.218,"text":"所以這樣子的一個情況之下內政部是否應該引以為戒其實部長你沒去我是覺得滿遺憾的你還是要去啦為總統去視察那個跟內政部的業務也有相關嗎報告委員那個後來院長過去還有我"},{"start":171.141,"end":197.999,"text":"自己也到每個地方不同因為我們所負責的項目各不相同每個部會都非常的認真跟委員報告一下部長我想其實因為大家事後檢討就認為內政部其實還有很多要去進步的地方我想請問部長對於這次救災調度效率差全責機制有不明的部分內政部有沒有痛定思痛研擬具體的一個改革改善的一個方案"},{"start":198.779,"end":220.046,"text":"報告委員我們在這次丹納斯颱風跟0728還有0802在這個行政院的這個災防中心裡面其實它原來的這樣子的跟地方政府一起來配合的SOP是沒有問題的但是呢我們呢有一個發現有一個非常大的一個需要改進的地方就是這一次因為風力非常的強"},{"start":220.686,"end":250.186,"text":"甚至高达17级风或者是雨量非常的大比莫拉克的时候还要多所以造成电线杆全部全倒的状况之下我们在救灾的速度上因为有通讯不良的问题确实有产生一些状况这些状况我在事后邀集我们的警政还有消防单位就通讯上面在救灾的体系上面怎么样做研拟我们有研拟若干的办法出来包括说我们未来"},{"start":250.786,"end":270.057,"text":"在這個災防中心如果要開辦之前所以有在研擬具體的一個改善就在這個改善機構有在做啦我只想了解你們事後有沒有在做有兩三次以上的會議在做改善謝謝有在做就好了那好部長你先請回請那個水利署署長OK"},{"start":277.088,"end":299.837,"text":"署長我們從95年到今年114年將近20年的期間我們中央對於整個治水的一個計畫的一個經費是否已經高達2700億對有2700億但是據本席所悉截至去年年底縣市河川與區域排水平均治理率僅有45.69%"},{"start":302.958,"end":315.038,"text":"一半數的縣市治理率未達五成花了那麼多錢請問你為何諮詢率那麼低報告委員從95年那時候治理率是19%"},{"start":316.701,"end":344.758,"text":"那到現在是45沒有錯那最主要是因為現在要投入很多土地的部分還有很多堤防那個費用都蠻貴的所以我們在有限資源裡面我們盡量投入人口的密集區域我想為什麼你不用跟我講很清楚我們看到的數據就是這樣所以這一次我們編列的特別預算包含水利署的這個設施搶修及復建經費有60億嘛"},{"start":346.719,"end":368.477,"text":"所以我希望你我看到過去的執行率那麼低你這次又編列了60億所以這60億你要好好的去執行執行率那麼低難怪說風災水災一來整個就經不起考驗所以你既然編了這個經費我希望你這一次一定要讓我們看到執行率是OK的你太低就沒有成效嘛"},{"start":369.358,"end":376.902,"text":"對不對 好吧是 我們全力來努力非常謝謝委員謝謝思敏接著請蘇巧慧委員質詢好 謝謝主席我想請公共工程委員會陳金德 陳珠蔚"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":256,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（9時52分）謝謝主席，我先請內政部劉部長。"],["主席：請內政部長。"],["林委員思銘：部長早。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：部長，昨天卓院長在立法院備詢的時候，針對114年的總預算，先前他在論述的時候把凍結誤說為刪除，對這件事他道歉，媒體報導稱之為大罷免失利後，身段變軟了。所以我不禁要在此感慨，如果沒有726、沒有823的大罷免大失敗、32比0完封的話，執政黨是否就不會承認說錯話？就不會意識到過去正事不做、不務正業，應該趕快回歸崗位、上緊發條，為風災、為雨災所造成的重大災害復原來做正事。","我們也看到，面對災區居民的需求，總統前往視察時竟然告訴災民，家園的清理要由你們社區自行處理，房屋屋頂的修繕、蓋帆布，你們要自己爬上去。人民要求趕快修復通訊，總統卻說郭國文委員的電話會通？這樣的談話讓人覺得根本不知苦民所苦！我想請問部長，你當時在場嗎？總統去視察的時候你在場嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：抱歉，我沒有過去。"],["林委員思銘：你沒有過去？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["林委員思銘：所以我們現在很納悶，為什麼總統去視察的時候，像內政部這麼重要的部會，你怎麼會不在場呢？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，因為丹娜絲颱風、還有0728、0802這三個連續由內政部跟經濟部主導的行政院災防中心，我們都在處理有關救災的部分。至於第一時間的復原跟重建，我們也是依照行政院的指導，所有都照SOP在走，所以總統過去視察的時候有要求其他部會，但是……"],["林委員思銘：沒有要求你？沒有要求你？"],["劉部長世芳：他找消防署的同仁跟著去。"],["林委員思銘：好，這樣我了解。這次所造成的嚴重災情，充分顯露政府對災害善後的韌性嚴重不足。對此情況，內政部是否應引以為戒？其實部長沒去，我覺得蠻遺憾的，你還是要去，而且總統視察的跟內政部業務也有相關。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，院長有過去，而我自己也到不同的地方，因為我們所負責的項目各不相同，但每個部會都非常認真，這點跟委員報告一下。"],["林委員思銘：現在大家事後檢討，都認為內政部其實還有很多需要精進的地方。我想請問部長，對於這次救災調度效率差，權責機制不明的部分，內政部有沒有痛定思痛，研擬具體的改革、改善方案？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，在這次丹娜絲颱風跟0728、0802災害中，行政院災防中心跟地方政府原本一起配合的SOP是沒有問題的，但我們有發現一個非常大的且需要改進的地方，就是這次的風力非常強，甚至高達十七級風；雨量非常大，比莫拉克颱風時還多，造成電線桿全倒，讓我們在救災速度上因通訊不良的問題，確實有產生一些狀況。對這些狀況，我事後邀集警政、消防單位，就救災體系在通訊上該怎麼做，有研擬出若干辦法，包括未來災防中心開辦之前，要先做備援……"],["林委員思銘：所以有在研擬具體的救災改善計畫？有在做啦？"],["劉部長世芳：不只，我們的設備……"],["林委員思銘：我只想了解你們事後有沒有做。"],["劉部長世芳：有開過兩、三次以上的會議並做改善。"],["林委員思銘：謝謝，有在做就好。部長先請回，請水利署署長。","署長，從95年到今年114年，將近二十年期間，中央對於治水計畫的經費是否已經高達2,700億？"],["林署長元鵬：對，含各部會。"],["林委員思銘：有2,700億。據本席所悉，截至去年年底，縣市河川與區域排水計畫平均治理率僅有45.69%，且逾半數的縣市治理率未達五成！花了那麼多錢，請問你為何執行率那麼低？"],["林署長元鵬：報告委員，95年的治理率是19%，到現在是45%沒有錯，最主要是因為現在要投入很多經費在土地及堤防上，且費用都蠻貴的。所以我們在有限資源裡儘量投入在人口密集區域……"],["林委員思銘：為什麼如此你不用跟我講得很清楚，因為我們看到的數據就是這樣！這次編列的特別預算，包含水利署的設施搶修及復建經費有60億，但你們過去的執行率那麼低，這次又編列了60億，所以這60億你們要好好去執行！"],["林署長元鵬：是。"],["林委員思銘：執行率那麼低，難怪風災、水災一來整個就禁不起考驗！既然編了經費，我希望這次一定要讓我們看到執行率是OK的，畢竟執行率太低就沒有成效，對不對？好不好？"],["林署長元鵬：是，我們全力來努力，非常謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林思銘委員。","接著請蘇巧慧委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","陳亭妃","賴士葆","郭國文","林思銘","蘇巧慧","林宜瑾","楊瓊瓔","張智倫","黃珊珊","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","林俊憲","鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","李昆澤","黃秀芳","李坤城","張宏陸","黃捷","陳玉珍","謝衣鳯","牛煦庭","王育敏","李彥秀","張雅琳","許智傑","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","徐富癸","范雲","王正旭","郭昱晴","林月琴","蘇清泉","李柏毅","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","葉元之","劉建國","高金素梅","蔡其昌","邱議瑩","魯明哲","徐欣瑩","劉書彬","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","王美惠","陳素月","游顥","陳超明","萬美玲","廖偉翔","邱志偉","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","黃健豪","鄭天財Sra 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