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請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":2714.758,"end":2723.841,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議．事由．一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議．事由．一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議．事由．一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議．事由．一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議．事由．一、邀請國家運輸安全調"},{"start":2743.66,"end":2768.962,"text":"唐港建設基金、臺灣港務股份有限公司、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金預算。本日會議由交通部部長陳士凱等報告後,繼由委員林沛翔等22人提出質詢。均經部長陳士凱及相關人員分別予以答覆。決議一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員鍾嘉斌所提書面質詢列入記錄。"},{"start":2770.064,"end":2798.564,"text":"並刊登公報。三、委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分,請交通部盡數以書面答覆。四、第一案令折旗進行處理為預算提案於12月16日,中午12時截止收件。二、五、第二案自第五案均令折旗進行處理為預算提案於12月19日,中午12時截止收件。散會宣讀完畢。好,那我們議事部等一下再確定"},{"start":2800.046,"end":2827.882,"text":"首先介紹這個現場的在場的委員林國成委員謝謝林委員接下來列席委員我依序來介紹首先介紹國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得主委謝謝林主委副主任委員葉明山以及我們張文煥委員張委員李延年委員"},{"start":2830.714,"end":2844.101,"text":"姚承安主秘以及林佩達執行長以上是運安會到場的列席官員還有我們航空調查組劉東銘組長以及我們水務調查組蘇水兆組長"},{"start":2854.81,"end":2879.689,"text":"鐵道調查組吳吉村組長吳組長公務調查組曾仁松組長運輸安全組鄭永安組長運輸工程組莊禮昌組長以及我們人事室廖娟會主任"},{"start":2882.352,"end":2901.158,"text":"政風是康熙平主任主計是孫淑信主任秘書是楊一文主任好,以上是我們運安會所有到場的官員接下來我們交通部"},{"start":2902.605,"end":2915.396,"text":"我們陳士凱部長,謝謝啊,今天部長很忙,早上也都在我們交委會。以及我們陸正及盜安司黃韻貴市長。黃市長。公共藝術及監理司林福山市長。會計處陳凱尼專門委員。接下來,運研所林記國所長。"},{"start":2932.23,"end":2939.956,"text":"主計是曾麒麟主任接下來鐵道局楊振軍局長主計是陳康廷主任行政院"},{"start":2961.502,"end":2969.821,"text":"主計總處公務預算處王淺凱專委。好的王專委齁。以及基金預算處李聖道科長。"},{"start":2975.094,"end":2997.88,"text":"好,今天的會議進行第一,邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主委林信得列席報告業務概況及立法計劃第二、114年度國家運輸安全調查委員會以及交通部運援所、鐵道局及所屬單位預算及鐵道發展基金非營業預算等四項預算進行審查、詢答"},{"start":3005.029,"end":3032.164,"text":"那待會我們一一來做一個報告目前這個得到的時間也讓待會的委員能夠預估一下我們待會運安會會用10分鐘然後我們交通部部長3分鐘運研所5分鐘以及鐵道局楊局長會7分鐘總共現在預估大概會有25分鐘的這個報告好首先我們就請這個運安會林主委針對業務概況及預算一併報告"},{"start":3044.1,"end":3057.797,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位理事、各位先生、大家好。今天非常榮幸列席貴委員會向主席及各位委員報告運安會的業務重點及預算執行與別類情形,藉請各位委員不吝給予指導與建議。"},{"start":3060.305,"end":3088.504,"text":"本會主要執掌重大運輸事故的調查。調查範圍涵蓋航空、水路、鐵道及公路。透過系統性的調查可以完整發掘可能噪音及安全風險提出改善建議以防止類似事故的再發生。相關的業務重點分數如下。第一有關重大運輸事故的調查業務。調查進入方面本會自108年8月1日成立期間"},{"start":3090.376,"end":3116.894,"text":"運輸事故立案共298件已經結案268件另有30件根據調查中說明如下航空立案20件結案15件上有5件調查中共發布35項安全改善建議水路立案224件已經結案211件上有13件調查中共發布279項安全改善建議"},{"start":3118.215,"end":3140.153,"text":"鐵道立案30件已經結案28件上有2件調查中共發布221項安全改善協議公路立案24件已經結案14件上有10件調查中共發布150項安全改善協議現在報告近期媒體關注的重大運輸事故關於"},{"start":3142.219,"end":3166.116,"text":"今年7月1日,泰雅航空一架超新型載具在台中市烏日活動場所落地時墜毀的事故。這個案子已經在今年的7月公布初步調查報告。預計明年4月會完成最終的調查報告。關於今年7月25日,扶樹輪雜貨船於高雄港外海沉沒及船員罹難的事故。"},{"start":3168.036,"end":3181.272,"text":"這個是一級的水路事故已經在7月29號完成現場的資料收集8月已經公布初步的報告預計12月會公布事實資料報告明年7月完成最終的調查報告"},{"start":3182.369,"end":3202.141,"text":"瓜胡桑今年6月21日台鐵至強號的列車在新河嶺隧道陣線出軌的事故。這個是也是一級的重大鐵路事故。已經在7月19日發布調查期間的運輸安全通告。請鐵路營運機構評估土石流前市溪流可能的影響。"},{"start":3203.735,"end":3230.939,"text":"那麼請他建立整密的監控及應變機制。這個案子依據在今年的12月發布事實資料報告明年8月完成最終調查報告。國務室今年6月6日電動俠客車國道1號往南湖尾路段自創護欄起火的事故那麼這個是也是一級的重大公訴事故依據明年的1月發布事實資料報告明年12月完成最終調查報告。"},{"start":3232.305,"end":3239.834,"text":"現在報告業務重點第一提升航空水路鐵道及公路事故調查能量"},{"start":3241.093,"end":3270.562,"text":"為了提升調查能量本會藉由辦理研討會專題的演講訓練及參與演習等等方式來持續強化事故調查能量。在人因工程調查能量建設方面採購駕駛員生理訊號量測系統以提升駕駛員工作壓力與負荷之評估能量另外也建設25小時揮航記錄器寫入的解讀裝備還有微型焊接設備及記憶體晶片解讀工具等等第二"},{"start":3271.804,"end":3290.219,"text":"為了增進與國際運輸安全組織之交流提升我國國際能見度本會積極參與國際運輸安全組織聯會及會議相關資料請參閱另外今年沙烏地阿拉伯運輸安全中心也特別派人來本會技術交流"},{"start":3291.428,"end":3314.576,"text":"另外為經濟本會調查人員的專業技能吸取運輸安全調查薪資與技術本會派員參加相關國際運輸調查專業。第三本會與美國加州大學伯克萊分校先進交通技術研究中心在去年9月19日已經簽完MOU"},{"start":3316.502,"end":3330.529,"text":"今年的8月19日到22日我們特別邀請PATH SOS PEDS的主任姆納博士跟詹博士來臺灣進行技術交流。我們也舉辦了2024年電動車、自駕車、人工智慧安全技術的國際論壇及相關專題的研討會。第四、參加鐵道事故調查國際論壇"},{"start":3341.741,"end":3368.096,"text":"這個國際論壇是由我國與日本、新加坡、澳洲及阿根廷五國共同發起成立。今年的10月22日到25日在日本東京召開第一屆的論壇,共有10國代表參加。我們也爭取明年將在台北舉辦。另外,我們也爭取2025年的亞太事務調查工程技術論壇在台北舉辦。第五,提升運具紀錄器的解讀能量。"},{"start":3369.465,"end":3382.092,"text":"我們運輸安全調查委員會已經完成今年的所謂飛航、水路、鐵路、公路的行車記錄裝置的普查報告。各項的記錄器的解讀例如下。航空方面"},{"start":3383.035,"end":3408.932,"text":"我們本來是百分之一百解讀率那麼因為台灣海力航空近期有引進一架AW169直升機他並且安裝新立在25小時的直升機飛航進入器所以我們也已經洽行業者延長購置相關所需的軟硬體與繼續保持百分之一百的解讀率水路的進入的解讀率目前是達到98.42鐵路跟公路都是百分之一百"},{"start":3410.373,"end":3419.125,"text":"adequation 6,運輸安全志願報告系統的運作狀況與成果,迄今本年度共處理4個調查模組的志願報告有110則,編撰並發行8期的運輸安全志願報告系統專刊。"},{"start":3427.025,"end":3452.766,"text":"第七、運輸安全改善建議的追蹤本會迄今共計發佈1754項運輸安全改善建議,完成1620項,完成率92.4%。第八、執行科技計畫本會自今年開始執行建立我國新型運輸事故調查技術安全研究計畫,本計畫為期四年。第三、"},{"start":3454.039,"end":3468.375,"text":"有關單位委員關切議題的執行提醒第一有關重大運輸事故範圍的修正該修正草案已經在今年的7月完成預告作業經會選交通部後目前已報起行政會核定中第二"},{"start":3469.617,"end":3498.436,"text":"為促進運輸安全資訊交流與精進調查專業技術本會每年都舉辦運輸安全資訊交流研討會。今年11月22號在高雄舉辦,邀請國內鐵道主管機關營運單位與學院機構共計大概100人,針對近年來極端氣候、地震與鐵道沿線施工所導致的安全危害控管策略進行研討與互動,達成促進技術資訊交流之目的。"},{"start":3499.471,"end":3525.102,"text":"三、有關鐵道邊坡管理的運輸安全問題本會在台鐵的泰魯格案調查報告中有建議台鐵公司針對列車運轉具潛在危險處設置偵測設備並提供適當防護措施引引。台鐵公司已規劃於沿線高空險路段偵測實體阻隔並搭配告警系統,預計明年6月完成。"},{"start":3526.311,"end":3546.985,"text":"那麼本會也會對今年6月台鐵新和田隧道事故針對土石流及邊坡架構系統制建設情形進行調查並釐清其運作方式及功能以提出改善建議。接下來報告113年度預算直接施行第一有關稅務部分113年度輸入部分預算數20萬元至11月底執行數246,000元佔累計分配數"},{"start":3554.212,"end":3557.455,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":3574.611,"end":3589.922,"text":"現在來報告114年預算的備列情形第一稅數部分114的稅數部分備列20萬元跟113的一樣最主要是大樓的行動電話基地台及停車位的出入等等稅數部分"},{"start":3591.547,"end":3595.929,"text":"邊列2億3496萬8千元,較113年增加953萬元,增幅約4.23,主要的內容說明如下﹖1、一般行政邊列1億8037萬4千元,增加612萬3千元,增幅約3.51%,最主要是配合競工價的調薪。"},{"start":3615.885,"end":3640.65,"text":"以及一些行政工作的維持費用。第五、有關運輸事故的調查編列1552萬元政府是16.550。有關的編列項目如航空、水路、鐵道、公路的資料收集等等。另外我們也舉辦2025年鐵道事故的調查國際論壇。第三、有關運輸安全分析工程界列編列323萬元。比去年政府是0.84%。"},{"start":3643.598,"end":3666.437,"text":"那麼再來就是報告精進運輸事故調查能量別列3628萬元增加120萬政府大概3.57%主要是要研擬陸海空掀起運氣的調查技術強化運輸事故調查工程能量精進運輸事故人為因素的調查能量還有另外也要舉辦2025年亞太事故調查工程技術論壇"},{"start":3668.035,"end":3689.623,"text":"那麼依據施政的習效請大家參閱。那麼前以本會將持續秉持獨立公正專業的精神,持續認真執行陸海空運輸事故的調查任務,並持續努力精進專業知識與預防事故於未來,採取積極措施來避免事故的發生,確保我國運輸安全隨著科技與實際的變遷不斷進入。"},{"start":3691.769,"end":3717.135,"text":"感謝委員波榮、劉文天﹑近期各位委員對本會業務與支持,共同為提升臺灣海陸工藝術安全實現努力。以上報告完畢。好,謝謝主委。好,接下來有請,好,等一下,我先確認一下藝術路。好,在場各位委員對於我們的藝術路有沒有意見?沒有。好,沒有意見。"},{"start":3718.274,"end":3744.935,"text":"我們議事錄確定接下來有請我們交通部陳世凱部長報告主席各位委員女士先生今天應邀列席貴委員會就本部運輸研究所鐵道局暨鐵道發展基金114年度業務計劃及預算編列情形提出報告敬請指教"},{"start":3745.975,"end":3774.011,"text":"運營所為本部重要的智庫與前瞻創新研究機構協助本部研擬運輸發展政策及策略統合協調運輸政策及執行計畫以及研發先進運輸技術與創新應用並依據本部施政重點辦理各項重要施政計畫協助本部逐步落實與精進各項交通施政各項研究成果及評估建議供本部及相關機關"},{"start":3775.512,"end":3794.474,"text":"作為施政決策之支援與應用。鐵道局致力打造、便捷、優質、智慧化及符合近鄰碳排永續發展之軌道建設,持續推動各項重大鐵道及捷運建設,提升鐵道以及捷運交通基礎建設,"},{"start":3795.675,"end":3810.818,"text":"均衡我國區域發展及促進國內鐵道運輸產業升級提供國人穩定可靠安全舒適之軌道運輸服務令透過鐵道發展基金辦理鐵道發展及監理相關作業114年度將持續就鐵道路網規劃、鐵道營運監理、廠站開發以及鐵道產業等四個面向業務推動多項重要工作"},{"start":3825.731,"end":3845.677,"text":"其促進鐵道運輸及相關產業之發展有關運營所、鐵道局及鐵道發展基金114年度業務計劃及預算編制內容由林所長及楊局長向各位委員提出報告與說明,敬請賄與支持。謝謝。好,謝謝陳部長。"},{"start":3854.397,"end":3857.152,"text":"接下來有請運研所林所長進行報告。"},{"start":3867.813,"end":3892.755,"text":"主席、各位委員、女士、先生、大家早今天應邀列席貴委員會就本所114年度施政計畫及預算編列提出報告自感榮幸首先報告112年度與113年度截至11月份指預算執行情形112年度稅入預算執行率71.48%主要是本所國際會議廳陳出情形未如預期"},{"start":3893.996,"end":3901.962,"text":"一、二年度稅出預算執行率94.9%有關113年度稅入預算執行率是117.21%稅出預算的執行率是93.53年度終了將可達成預算執行進度接下來有關114年度施政計畫的重點包括"},{"start":3918.155,"end":3943.668,"text":"辦理第6期的整體運輸規劃、精進運輸計畫評估與審議工具、健全整體運輸系統發展。辦理海空運數位轉型及永續發展研究、健全國際海空港環境永續發展。持續擴充標誌標線號誌設置參考指引,發展道路安全檢查制度及交通衝突分析技術,改善道路環境交通安全。"},{"start":3944.915,"end":3972.017,"text":"建置共享運具、連結公共運輸示範場域並修訂相關的指引以及汽車貨運業近鄰轉型策略規劃與行動方案的研擬來優化整體產業經營環境強化智慧運輸科技的研究發展與整合測試推動無人機在交通領域的創新應用與商業驗證支援交通部推動交通科技資訊整合與應用服務"},{"start":3973.138,"end":3984.083,"text":"另外就是評估運輸部門溫室氣體減量行動方案的成果跟減碳的效益滾動檢討及研擬低碳與淨零的運輸策略同時會來強化運輸管理計劃構的調適專業能力"},{"start":3988.837,"end":3994.182,"text":"另外就是研發運輸設施防災調適技術、精進三港海西項及時觀測與模擬技術、落實設施維護管理機制與智慧環境監測。接下來報告110年14年度的預算編列情形稅務部分"},{"start":4004.973,"end":4019.102,"text":"編列237萬3千元同上年度請參閱附件一稅數部分編列4億8千133萬3千元較上年度增列9千零10萬6千元其中運輸科技應用研究業務編列9千751萬3千元系辦理運輸部門深度檢探與調試研究計畫陸運及港灣設施防災技術研究計畫等研究所需經費"},{"start":4031.69,"end":4054.011,"text":"叫上年度增列958萬1千元主要是新增智慧運輸系統發展建設計畫智慧道路技術應用與運輸效率升級計畫經費在一般行政部分編列2億2978萬5千元叫上年度增列259萬元主要是配合薪資調整新增人事費本經費"},{"start":4055.012,"end":4079.101,"text":"在運輸研究業務部分編列一億四千四百零一萬五千元是辦理人本交通運輸研究發展計劃以及營造深度減碳運輸環境及打造低耗能交通場域計劃等所需經費較上年度增列六千九百九十一萬五千元主要是增列營造深度減碳運輸環境及打造低耗能交通場域計劃"},{"start":4080.181,"end":4105.75,"text":"經費。因為原先是編載前瞻的這個特別預算。他們114年度編列到基本需求的運輸研究業務經費。那在一般建築及設備編列982萬元。系辦理包括我們的研究大樓的頂層樓板這些整修的工程、太購電動車輛儀量以及大樓的消防授信總機跟廣播這些相關的設備。較上年度增列804萬元。"},{"start":4107.951,"end":4118.6,"text":"第一倍均20萬元與上年度相同請參閱附件二接下來是預期的私人績效主要有經濟運輸規劃系列的研究來強化運輸系統的均衡發展"},{"start":4122.489,"end":4137.735,"text":"第二是要強化數位轉型及永續發展提升海空運輸整體的競爭力第三是能夠提升道路環境的安全以及強化高齡者交通安全的智能第四可以持續來推動"},{"start":4139.338,"end":4159.722,"text":"智慧、低碳與彈性多元的永續交通。第五是強化智慧運輸及無人機等資通科技的整合應用跟成果推廣。第六是提升運輸部門未來淨零排放及調適能力。第七是強化陸運及港灣設施防災調適能力提供發展智慧港口關鍵資訊及維護臺灣海域船舶航線安全。"},{"start":4163.443,"end":4174.707,"text":"節以本所114年度預算以配合施政需要並橫著各項計畫優先款局以以往年度進行績效妥適編列。敬請各位委員會以支持與指教。謝謝。好,謝謝林所長。今天我們最後一位請鐵道局楊局長進行報告。"},{"start":4189.775,"end":4211.783,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生。現在由鐵道局報告本局114年度施政計畫及預算編列情形。敬請各位委員指教。114年的施政計畫重點本局業務包括鐵道建設、鐵道監理及鐵道發展三個大項目。其中建設的部分是由單位預算。至於鐵道發展跟監理業務則是由基金預算來辦理。"},{"start":4212.663,"end":4235.38,"text":"首先報告鐵道建設的業務重點。我們分為幾個部分做說明。第一個業務是鐵路立體化的建設。114年度我們持續辦理高雄鐵路地下化計畫。商辦大樓、旅館大樓將交付台鐵公司辦理招商。同時開放啟用天鵬集這個廣場成員的這樣的一個工作。我們持續辦理桃園鐵路地下化"},{"start":4236.28,"end":4261.817,"text":"計劃的桃一車站、內力站、鳳鳴站三個車站的主體工程發報另外也持續辦理平鎮臨時站的工程加一市區鐵路高架計劃的工程第二項主要工作是機場捷運延伸計劃及基隆捷運軌道建設這個都是持續性的工作第三項是花東鐵路雙軌電氣化的工作今年主要工作是甘城受風段及東里關山站的土建工程發報"},{"start":4262.777,"end":4287.306,"text":"第四項是有關林軌工程的工程安全管理。我們將透過系統化的安全管理措施維護鐵路行車安全。第二個部分是有關鐵道發展跟監理的相關業務。在鐵道發展的業務裡面最重要的是鐵路路網的相關規劃。我們就環島鐵路網跟地方捷運兩個部分來做說明。鐵路系統部門114年將持續辦理宜蘭鐵路高架、台鐵海線雙軌化"},{"start":4288.786,"end":4306.73,"text":"章化鐵路高架及南迴鐵路線型改善等綜合規劃作業同時新增辦理斗六鐵路高架中規的這樣作業在地方捷運的部分持續補助地方政府辦理捷運路網相關可行性研究跟中規作業114年度包括基隆捷運第二階段路線"},{"start":4307.09,"end":4314.294,"text":"在鐵路監理方面我們透過制度面跟執行面來加強鐵路行車安全的工作在制度面持續透過國家鐵路安全計畫設定安全指標PTCA滾動管理督導鐵路機構促進行車安全在執行面則由鐵路檢查員"},{"start":4331.024,"end":4346.711,"text":"透過安全管理系統的有效性檢查來督促鐵路機構達成安全的目標。第三個部分是場站開發114年度我們持續辦理臺南、嘉義、雲林等高鐵站區的招商作業。第四項有關鐵道產業補助國內研發機構辦理鐵道次系統相關技術研發。"},{"start":4350.613,"end":4368.702,"text":"有關車門、集電工、轉向架等,預期將應用在西東捷運的建設上面。此外,我們也持續補助營運機構辦理維修備品的在地化工作。114年度預算編列情形。單位預算稅入的部分20億3千餘萬元,主要是鐵道發展基金繳雇20億的導致。"},{"start":4371.283,"end":4394.491,"text":"在稅出部分總共編列235.9億元這部分包括4項主要的工作其中第一項跟第三項都是屬於行政跟人員的基本維持費總共編列將近15億元第二項鐵道業務的部分將近30億元是補助台鐵常債基金的利息支出的部分"},{"start":4395.131,"end":4412.879,"text":"最大一項是鐵道建設跟捷運計畫的部分,總共編列191億元,較去年度大幅增加,主要是前瞻建設的部分預算移列到公務預算來做編列。鐵道發展分基金的預算,業務總收入是88億6千餘萬元,業務總支出是13億5千萬億元,後續將辦理固定資產改良及長期投資跟資產轉投資計畫。"},{"start":4422.933,"end":4440.989,"text":"一百一十二年預算執行情形請各位參考一百一十三年預算執行情形在單位預算部分的稅務編列三千餘萬元執行率達到一百二十八點五七稅數預算編列九十億元執行率達百分之九十七左右基金預算總業務收入"},{"start":4441.169,"end":4462.073,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":4462.193,"end":4483.773,"text":"三個主體工程的全面開工同時根據辦理機場捷運建設A23的相關工程鐵道發展基金三項自償性計畫均可讀取達成財務自償的目標至於鐵道及相關鐵道發展跟監理相關的事項作業業務主軸我們也將持續在鐵道路網建設跟廠站開發的部分用"},{"start":4484.574,"end":4511.796,"text":"的持續來辦理,同時以績效導向跟風險導向式的監理工作來持續推動國家鐵路的安全。在廠商開發部分,隨著嘉義跟台南站的招商開發,中南部的都市發展可以達到另外一個層次的進步。接下來,鐵道局將持續就鐵道建設、鐵道監理、廠商開發跟鐵道產業等四大市政主軸,透過單位預算跟基金預算的編列來達成永續安全"},{"start":4512.336,"end":4533.072,"text":"智慧的鐵道運輸環境。以上鐵道局報告,敬請各位委員指導指教。謝謝。好,謝謝鐵道局的報告。現在開始進行詢答,先宣告以下事項。第一,詢答時間,初期委員6加2分鐘,列席委員4加1分鐘。"},{"start":4534.867,"end":4556,"text":"厲二、委員發言登記於10點30分截止本委員會委員除外。厲三、各委員會如有臨時提案請於10點30分前提出以便議事人員會診。厲四、暫定10點50分休息10分鐘。厲五、中午原則上不休息現在就請登記第一位李昆哲委員發言"},{"start":4563.634,"end":4591.031,"text":"謝謝召委,請一下陳世凱部長陳部長楊政軍局長好,楊局長部長好,局長好高鐵研製屏東本來有四個方案是有左營方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案以及小港機場方案最後是定案與"},{"start":4592.623,"end":4609.935,"text":"左營方案就是相關的這個延伸到六塊錯那左營方案後來遇到問題那我現在要請教一下部長左營方案或者是高雄車站方案到底什麼時候會定案"},{"start":4611.199,"end":4627.374,"text":"報告委員我們希望在年底可以訂案在年底已經快到了之前李孟彥部長的時候他也是說要年底那我就照他的這個年底的這個規劃我們照這個計畫做好那到底是左營方案還是高雄車站方案現在有訂案嗎"},{"start":4628.75,"end":4655.177,"text":"報告委員還沒有最後定案那你必須啊在最後定案的時候必須要向社會大眾清楚的說明為什麼是左營方案為什麼是高雄車站方案或者是為什麼不是左營方案為什麼不是高雄車站方案你們必須要明確的說清楚啊其實都有碰到問題第一個左營方案啊在當初定案的時候第一個他首先碰到的就是啊他從左營站"},{"start":4656.721,"end":4675.065,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預"},{"start":4686.587,"end":4688.989,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":4710.543,"end":4731.793,"text":"第一個民眾的拆遷的問題來請說明一下是報告員民眾拆遷的問題我們當然會把它減到最低但是目前為止因為還沒有進入細部的設計所以也沒有辦法很清楚說哪些一定會影響到哪些一定會影響但是部長我有幾個建議第一個如果是高雄車站方案"},{"start":4733.052,"end":4734.333,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於"},{"start":4757.651,"end":4764.916,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":4784.868,"end":4785.148,"text":"來,局長你講一下。"},{"start":4811.585,"end":4836.599,"text":"謝謝委員指教剛剛特別是委員指導的這個高雄車站古道數的減少我想我們會朝這個方向來做檢討這樣可以大幅減少相關的一些用地上面的取得那第二個就是我們也會盡全力把我們的民挖路段呢限縮到中華山路跟民主路橋這個範圍以內也就是說不影響這兩個高雄民眾的權益最重要拆遷戶的問題是的"},{"start":4838.1,"end":4839.361,"text":"兩條交通動脈之一所以這個必須要去做降低交通衝擊的一個處理"},{"start":4868.2,"end":4885.042,"text":"指高鐵到高雄車站而已而是整個高雄車站必須一個大車站的觀念來重新的一個佈局我們相關的地下道要通到九十路對面建國路那邊以及站東路站西路"},{"start":4886.363,"end":4898.448,"text":"而且啊因為如果是地下通道的話我們鐵道局就可以交通部就可以自己做規劃如果要像台北這種地下街的話我們是必須要跟市政府啊來對話來做整合啊"},{"start":4899.343,"end":4899.483,"text":" bicyC."},{"start":4899.483,"end":4920.655,"text":"這些都是接下來如果是高雄方案的話這都是要進行的工作相關的拆遷都跟安置以及大高雄車站整體的開發除了地下道或地下街的開發之外我們那邊有專市跟專路兩塊地還有高雄車站前面有兩棟大樓已經建好一棟是營業大樓商業大樓一棟是"},{"start":4923.416,"end":4951.953,"text":"光光旅館那其實後站也有兩棟的空地這兩棟也必須要做整體的開發然後兩邊有專事專武就是警察局跟行控中心那邊專事專武還有在高雄火車站到民族路這邊相關的第四種商業區這都必須跟高雄市政府來整體對話來做一個整體的開發你們有沒有做預先的規劃所以說第一個左雲方案或是高雄方案現在還沒有定案"},{"start":4952.913,"end":4976.811,"text":"其實答案已經複製溢出了啦第二個你們必須社會大眾必須明確說明為什麼是這個為什麼不是這個你們必須要明確的說明第三個你們現在跟高雄市政府有對話過嗎?針對我所提的拆遷的問題、禿根的問題以及大高雄車站相關的問題以及降低交通衝擊你們有做過對話嗎?"},{"start":4978.252,"end":5004.677,"text":"報告委員在過去李孟嫣部長的時候有拜訪過陳其邁市長那我上任之後也有拜訪過陳其邁市長針對這件事情來向他做說明那除此之外我們其實鐵道局跟他們的各局處其實很密切在溝通無論是交通方面的規劃或者跟他們副市長在溝通未來整體都市規劃的部分包含整個都更的這個部分還有委員您很關心的地下通道"},{"start":5005.077,"end":5031.974,"text":"甚至是用天棚直接通到周圍區域周邊區域的計畫其實我們都很密切在跟他們做討論那等到我們定案之後比較細部的設計的部分我們會跟高雄市政府來配合那包含都市更新的部分我所聽到的高雄市政府其實可能會提出一個比較大的這個大都更的計畫在這個整整體的高雄火車站的周邊周邊做一個大都更的計畫那這個部分我們會密切跟他們配合其實這個"},{"start":5033.015,"end":5055.606,"text":"今天站在這裡其實感觸蠻深的整個鐵路地下化或綠岩道的設置以及相關鐵路立體化設施的拆除我都有參與甚至在2006年我在交通委員會當時我就有提案要求鐵路地下化施工的時候要預留軌道的空間讓高鐵可以直達我們的高雄車站"},{"start":5056.809,"end":5083.682,"text":"那可惜當時的政府沒有同意沒有預留這個軌道的空間所以今天又重新面臨這個相關的問題那其實在高雄車站方案在之前我跟王國才部長李孟彥部長還有陳思凱部長都有多次的討論我們對社會大眾對高雄市民屏東縣民都必須要明確的報告為什麼"},{"start":5084.582,"end":5108.418,"text":"是這個方案不管是之前我們提過的左雲方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案、小港機場方案為什麼後來是左雲方案然後現在後來又變成了左雲方案跟高雄車站方案要選擇一個這個都要有明確的數據未來的發展因為長久的公共利益跟對民眾的利益的"},{"start":5109.178,"end":5110.438,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":5136.854,"end":5162.583,"text":"好謝謝李委員接下來有請林國前委員發言好謝謝主席請應安會林主委應安會林主委還有另外那個航跳組航跳組要不要上來幫忙一下航跳組組長"},{"start":5172.337,"end":5200.802,"text":"主委其實我對於你們這些調查單位跟這些研究單位過去以我個人對你們的認知基本上你們各種編列預算只要是按部就班去做基本上我們是支持可是有一些問題我們必須要去提醒我們林主委也就是我們輕航機的事故"},{"start":5202.993,"end":5219.708,"text":"到底誰要來調查誰要來管這是很重要的林主委所以我在這裡就是清航機的事那最近一件就是12月9號在屏東的"},{"start":5221.167,"end":5229.401,"text":"事故這個第一我要了解你們現在調查如何這第一第二為什麼12月9號"},{"start":5234.664,"end":5262.663,"text":"這個機種跟這一架飛機已經聯繫兩次的事故。不過每一次啊都是鬧出人命之後才開始要來重視所以主委你存在的功能你們貴委員會存在的功能本來就是有瑕疵就調查有問題就要就正本來就是這樣所以我要請教我們主委"},{"start":5264.284,"end":5275.693,"text":"這個12月9號這一架輕航機在屏東所發生這個你們進行調查的如何?可以不可以跟本席說明一下嗎?"},{"start":5276.854,"end":5304.392,"text":"報告委員這個案子已經確實是立案調查那麼他是連續陳主委員剛剛所提的他這個超新級載具的私事的這種系統性我們已經在做統計分析那麼我們最近也跟民航局有聯繫說講這個有一些議題譬如說有大部分三個主要議題是說他沒有在核定的空域裡面來進行會案活動這是違法的"},{"start":5305.313,"end":5323.86,"text":"那麼他差遣採集的維修保養紀錄也坦白講不是那麼完整還有最主要他沒有遵照會計所策的相關規範來操作這個我們跟民進黨局最近也在跟他開會他們也知道他們會加派人力來督導好啦那個那個會員組來"},{"start":5326.53,"end":5343.422,"text":"那個主委所講這些是一個大方向你們現在所調查的這些因為我在乎的就是輕航機他管理跟他的安全因為你們調查之後才有辦法在管理部分如何約束"},{"start":5344.122,"end":5344.943,"text":"Judge 1、審查2、審查3、審查4、審查5、審查6、審查7、審查8、審查9、審查10"},{"start":5364.624,"end":5389.384,"text":"輕航機他已經兩次發生事故了那問題在哪邊問題在哪邊這個不是只有這個飛行員的問題喔那應該是不是他的機種或者他改裝之後是確實是有問題來組長你可以不可以說明一下再深入技巧性你們調查的結果跟本席說明一下吧"},{"start":5390.666,"end":5419.018,"text":"是,跟李委員報告一下目前來講在輕航機這個調查方向我們在主委的指導之下我們也非常重視這一些事情那根據過去的一些調查的報告已經結案的一些事件裡面大體上就是對於輕航機上面我們的維修這一些維修它並不完全按照原廠給的一些規範這是我們覺得是幾乎的一個重點"},{"start":5419.818,"end":5424.104,"text":" bicyclist of the United States of America"},{"start":5436.501,"end":5451.489,"text":"現在的頻率會越來越多包含最近還有一些無人機等等這個頻率會越來越多所以我們目前來講已經跟民航局的標準組我們一起再去看這一方面的事情"},{"start":5452.029,"end":5476.854,"text":"那個我建議啦從七月份八月份我現在跑步你可以看得出來七月份八月份十一月份十二月份這些輕航機的事故他迫降機率非常嚴重也就是每一個月幾乎每一個月都有這些輕航機的意外的不斷甚至有人受傷這個部分我要拜託主委跟拜託我們這個委員會裡面各組啊"},{"start":5480.455,"end":5483.477,"text":"兩、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":5500.35,"end":5507.473,"text":"單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":5529.463,"end":5532.007,"text":" bicy、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":5546.167,"end":5563.188,"text":"主動非常重要不要人家10天以後跟你們通報以後你們才來做這個功能幾乎是不可以好不好好那個主委請回謝謝好那個請我們陳部長還有我們那個林所長好林記國所長"},{"start":5572.743,"end":5593.061,"text":"我想部長因為我簡單說一下啦因為你也已經我們同事也已經講這個台鐵漲價的問題嘛那你也講過年以前不可能漲價啦那我還是要特別提醒你我有看到我們這次"},{"start":5593.982,"end":5608.928,"text":"改制為國營公司化之後看起來客人容量跟他的收入是增加的所以這個部分我還是要建議就是我們台鐵漲價的部分真的"},{"start":5609.508,"end":5622.916,"text":"也不要事事都一定要事先預告老百姓讓他們提心吊膽沒有必要但是我這裡要建議也就是我們營運虧損補貼辦法說我們政府要補貼這個部分我要拜託部長盡快給他們"},{"start":5629.76,"end":5652.02,"text":"為什麼我要問這個那主要是我們虧損補貼的部分最主要是牽涉到員工要計算如何要不要發連中獎金所以這個這個跟員工權利有關所以這個我特別我特別要拜託部長要去關心這個因為員工啊"},{"start":5655.543,"end":5674.359,"text":"老公要的不多只是他的安定跟他的確定所以你如果不撥這些他們會影響他們的計算年終到底給不給這個問題報告這個部分我們有跟那個主計總處已經有達成共識了我們有一個確定的方案折衷方案盡快啦盡快啦因為"},{"start":5676.661,"end":5700.642,"text":"因為年終快到了他們現在董事會要計算是牽涉到我虧損的是彌補是不是可以可以可以卡不過去所以這個就會影響他們的年終獎金花跟不花這個問題這個沒問題這個我要拜託部長一下好另外這是我們那個那個應安手啊我要拜託你們你們在研究這些當然對交通有幫助"},{"start":5701.499,"end":5707.411,"text":"可是有一點你們那個老人家習慣也就是你們編列450萬去開發高齡道安學習軟體"},{"start":5714.653,"end":5737.7,"text":"我必須要提醒林所長你們不要動不動老人家只要超過70歲他怎麼會去運用這些少之又少依照年輕人20歲以下那當然用的是百分之百未來他們會用但是經過70歲他使用率只有百分之0.8"},{"start":5739.56,"end":5754.374,"text":"所以你花了這些錢去做這些適合嗎這第一個我要提醒喔你們編列預算是有編列這一筆還有另外我還要跟您所長你們不要動不動就是陸老師啦我上次跟部長建議過啦"},{"start":5755.535,"end":5759.557,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":5777.907,"end":5792.283,"text":"我們支持但是不要忘了這效果不好我必須要去提醒一下所以我也拜託雖然450萬並非很多但是你要恰到好處嘛你明明知道老人家根本不會上網"},{"start":5792.884,"end":5793.485,"text":"adequate to the"},{"start":5809.224,"end":5822.051,"text":"但是這個就成為是讓那個名字平高而讓會馬因為本來老人家不是用這種軟體陸老師成果不好那你們偏偏為什麼還要再編這個預算"},{"start":5823.574,"end":5841.241,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個有跟會收集國際的一些案例不是只有軟體事實上是搭配很重要的體驗活動那你編列預算要講清楚好不好你如果講不清楚被我砍掉你不要怪我啊"},{"start":5841.601,"end":5864.536,"text":"因為你自己講不清楚的啊我已經產生錯覺啊但是你們為什麼不講清楚所以這個部分要拜託部長可能要監督其實編列預算不要敷立法委員啦其實立法委員大家都很認真啦你寫出來怎麼樣我們就會聯想什麼那如果你沒有寫的我們也會把問題找出來所以要拜託"},{"start":5865.376,"end":5870.577,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":5892.346,"end":5895.929,"text":"謝謝主席本席邀請我們交通部陳部長陳部長部長委員好部長有件事是你知不知道13號就是三天前那個賴清德總統他有回到台南"},{"start":5918.166,"end":5919.706,"text":"總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":5939.489,"end":5958.608,"text":"總統說國家會大力的支持台南的交通建設尤其在鐵路地下化還有立體化國家會支持讓台南的交通建設脫胎換骨總統特別提到現在台南的國際機場在疫後已經完全沒有國際線"},{"start":5960.305,"end":5986.24,"text":"那這一點我也希望交通部能夠支持是 這個我們要來努力爭取台南機場如果可以有國際線我相信很多台南鄉親都會比較方便我希望交通部能夠全力支持這一點另外剛提到了總統說國家會支持台南的鐵路立體化和地下化那現在地下化大概原台南市區以外再加上永康這個已經算定案"},{"start":5987.674,"end":6008.362,"text":"我今天要跟部長講的就是我們新式鐵路立體化他現在台南市政府把可行性的評估已經送布了希望交通部能夠儘速審查因為你知道新式吧南科之所在啦全世界最重要的半導體"},{"start":6009.582,"end":6036.819,"text":"高科技產品的生產基地就在新市南科結果交通進出還要停鐵路平交道這實在是非常的落伍那目前新市鐵路的立體化高架化的意思大概全長有4.6公里它可以消除現有的新市五個鐵路平交道從此新市就不會有鐵路平交道還有一個地下的寒凍"},{"start":6038.319,"end":6040.863,"text":"總經費大概142億3700萬跟交通部希望爭取到85億85.6億在前任的李孟岩部長的時候經費他已經有答應"},{"start":6053.345,"end":6075.999,"text":"重點是台南市政府也已經完成了可檢性研究現在就送到我們交通部來那我希望部裡面是不是能夠加速審查報告委員他的可檢性研究剛送到交通部那這個部分我們來加速因為我知道這個南科的發展速度相當的快那周圍的都市發展也很快這個部分我們來加速"},{"start":6076.653,"end":6078.834,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":6096.721,"end":6096.981,"text":"現在我們在"},{"start":6125.151,"end":6138.565,"text":"前幾年我有諮詢過交通部部裡面也提出了我請運燃所林記國所長就是第一個我們現在到底對車輛如何課稅我們的燃料稅"},{"start":6140.06,"end":6141.301,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。��"},{"start":6163.271,"end":6164.212,"text":" bicyclist"},{"start":6193.384,"end":6217.682,"text":"那這個研究報告這塊碼要下?跟委員報告一下,當時的研究我們比較了目前的隨車徵收、隨武徵收跟隨里程徵收。你花了700多萬,拿了一堆做理論報告。綜合的評估是目前現階段還是維持隨車。就是什麼都不要變。然後未來就是要看技術里程跟車重的這個技術的發展。可以看幾十年了啦,你不會變啦。"},{"start":6219.764,"end":6234.655,"text":"關了就說不要騙我,我才不會至少麻煩。你會提出說我需要改變,你不是至少麻煩,怎麼可能。所以就不會進步,就是這樣啦。那我再請教,現在電動車的數量增加嘛,它越增加的話,當然用油的車就減少嘛。"},{"start":6241.121,"end":6268.306,"text":"好那電動車到底會不會科徵道路使用費?什麼時候科徵?你要如何科徵?跟委員報告所以這也是為什麼當時綜合評估因為考慮到整個車輛的你回答我現在問你電動車電動車未來就是會參照因為現在還在政策鼓勵那未來等到他普及到一定的程度還是要隨車就是照照牌照稅的方式他會按照他的排氣量"},{"start":6268.806,"end":6277.232,"text":"bedingt review the information provided in this video."},{"start":6292.363,"end":6308.898,"text":"adequ?我瞌睡的時候我當然會用低馬力給你瞌嘛那我再調一下馬力就回來了我不知道但是你政策要對外說明要跟社會溝通現在因為很多電動車主他很惶恐"},{"start":6309.841,"end":6338.422,"text":"到底我會不會課稅那我要如何課稅我剛網路上有很多的影片很多人在估算有的也有算到一年可能要繳十幾萬的稅我不知道或七萬八萬的稅都很可怕你這樣會影響會不會影響電動車的銷售會不會影響造成現有車主的惶恐我不知道但一定會啦對不對"},{"start":6339.707,"end":6343.034,"text":"報告員目前的那個電動車的車輛數還沒有到達需要課稅的狀況所以應該還要一段時間那你要幾%才開始課?"},{"start":6349.727,"end":6365.081,"text":"我們有規劃幾百萬?目前目前就是說電動小客車的部分大概是將近這一個9萬輛那目前 幾百萬?暫爆白數幾百萬?600多萬輛它是這個將近這個9萬輛的話大概是一個1%多啦"},{"start":6372.087,"end":6394.803,"text":"目前數量並不多目前我們對於電動車科契纜費的一個規劃就是說原則上就是說到目前還沒有實質去影響到契纜費相關分配的一個部分所以我們要繼續免稅上次在教育會大概也有公文報告說目前預估的年期可能是在2030"},{"start":6396.277,"end":6400.479,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":6417.787,"end":6418.367,"text":"二、審查114年度"},{"start":6430.019,"end":6436.686,"text":"還有你要把那個名字改掉啦,你說電動車課徵棄燃稅你剛這麼講嘛,那電動車都沒吃氣,你要棄燃稅。這會讓很多車主造成誤解啦,這筆錢其實是所謂的,應該算道路養護費啦,使用者互惠是公平的。"},{"start":6450.379,"end":6452.36,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算．"},{"start":6474.108,"end":6478.55,"text":"台灣以後不管是汽油車電動車都是隨車徵收未來未來是部長大概台灣是獨一無二全世界很少隨車徵收因為這是很不公平而且這個是最落後的一種課程方式"},{"start":6501.98,"end":6530.392,"text":"因為你既然叫道路使用費,那我買車,你應該按照使用的量數啊,對不對?你買車如果不開勒,里程數低,一樣都繳同樣的稅。當然對你們來講課程最簡單啊,是不是這樣?你計算成本比較低嘛。目前是採一個平均的概念啊,確實有些人是沒有用的這樣。哪有什麼平均概念?這個以前就搞這一套搞下來,到現在啦。"},{"start":6531.8,"end":6532.1,"text":"接下來有請陳樹葉召委發言。"},{"start":6564.466,"end":6568.187,"text":"好,謝謝主席。請主席邀請陳部長。好,交通部陳部長。部長,早安。今天委員會是針對運安會、運營所以及鐵道局的相關預算巡導。那本席在這邊也再次的來關心一下目前這個彰化市的鐵路高架的一個確定的一個進度,是不是可以簡單說明一下?"},{"start":6595.055,"end":6609.675,"text":"報告委員就如您目前所列目前是已經進入這個細部規劃的部分已經在細部規劃那世西工程公司也已經針對這個所有的細節已經在做評估了"},{"start":6610.556,"end":6628.319,"text":"所以就是之前就是說有關這個基檢段的這個位置遲遲沒有辦法確定現在都已經這些都已經確定了跟彰化縣政府也都達成共識了是那以目前這樣子的一個進度我們預計什麼時候可以有動工的這樣子的一個"},{"start":6629.678,"end":6654.159,"text":"我是不是請局長,好不好?跟我們報告,因為現在方案確定之後,我們還要完成相關的規劃作業跟環評。估計規劃作業還需要一年,然後環評的話呢,要看環評的程序通常會要超過一年半左右。所以等到中規合定,估計在115年,那或者是114年底有機會合定,那才會進到設計跟施工。"},{"start":6655.905,"end":6656.749,"text":"是114年還是115年?中規核定。"},{"start":6660.374,"end":6684.999,"text":"我們現在判斷是要到115。應該要到115年。所以還要再好幾年的時間。好,那這個部分我們希望就是說中央該負責的這個程序我們就是要加緊這個行政的效率不要老是被地方政府甩鍋說是我們在就是延擋這個程序。那再來就是說有關這個經費負擔的部分因為"},{"start":6688.078,"end":6702.912,"text":"相信也都滿關心的,因為也看到之前這個工程會主委他有拋出說這個依然鐵路高架的這個地方負擔可以下降,那在就這個部分我們彰化縣的這個負擔的部分有可能再下降嗎?"},{"start":6703.983,"end":6726.944,"text":"報告委員這是都是固定比例啦依每一個縣市他的這個財政的狀況我們都是固定比例不管是桃園或者是台南或者高雄其實都是固定比例在處理那另外還有一個方案就是說專案協商的部分有些縣市有些比較特殊的狀況可能要透過行政院那邊做專案協商的方式才會做改變那對交通部的立場來講我們其實都是固定比例"},{"start":6727.911,"end":6745.883,"text":"所以就是全國一致性就是不會說有例外就是說別的縣是可以那彰化縣除非的例外就是說有提出專案協商在這個行政院的部分進行專案協商才有可能會稍微做改變那不然我們就是照固定比例在走"},{"start":6746.323,"end":6766.288,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":6766.288,"end":6768.669,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":6790.638,"end":6810.287,"text":"受限於台中市的進度是嗎?其實應該是說他整體的這個規劃的過程當中章化縣政府要趕快提供那個落站點提供落站點其實他整體的這個規劃就有辦法把它規劃進去那目前因為整個章東的這個都市計畫目前還沒有完全定案所以這個部分可能有些延宕"},{"start":6812.055,"end":6828.554,"text":"如果說彰化縣政府對於這個落站點目前是規劃兩個站嗎?是不是?是兩個站。新增兩個站。那如果說他這兩個落站點一直沒有辦法解決,這樣子是不是也會等於是去延到到台中市的一個捷運的一個進度?"},{"start":6829.379,"end":6849.525,"text":"確實台中市那邊也有在反映這件事就是說他們希望說有沒有可能還是就是彰化之後切開處理就是台中市的部分先走不然他們也擔心說台中市的部分會去做到延宕的狀況是不是應該要一起做會比較好這樣進度才會一致"},{"start":6852.304,"end":6880.055,"text":"以建設來說要合併在一起建設會比較好不過因為彰化的這個彰東的這個都市計畫的問題那這個一直拖著確實是一直拖著是因為彰化市就是除了鐵路高交之外就是這個捷運綠線延伸到彰化市也涉及到整個彰化市東區都市計畫的一個開發那如果說這個建設沒有給地方有那個"},{"start":6880.755,"end":6883.338,"text":"adequate to the current situation."},{"start":6902.637,"end":6904.618,"text":" bicyclie Lee, Chief Executive"},{"start":6919.986,"end":6943.509,"text":" bicyclia 呃這個分配的話了哈那在台中綠線的部分中央也要整個跟台中一起的話也要補助到182億多這麼龐大的一個經費未來如果說才化法通過之後我們中央的建設經費短少了那這些計劃還做得下去嗎"},{"start":6945.058,"end":6969.773,"text":"報告委員要看中央的整體的財務的狀況對於地方的補助如果中央沒錢那當然對地方補助的比例或許就要重新再來談是重新來談就是我們中央都沒錢了那我原本要對啊我們原本要負擔的這個幾百億的這個錢我們還有這個能力去負擔這樣高額的一個比例的經費嗎"},{"start":6971.472,"end":6987.497,"text":"是不曉得最後結論是怎麼樣啦會擔心說如果到時候我們該補助給地方的這個經費確實因為財化法的這個重新的估算那讓我們的預算也減少了那預算減少其實我們能夠支出的當然也就必然就少了"},{"start":6987.697,"end":7002.035,"text":"就是這個軌道計劃建設啊就是最後還是會我們中央去發包執行嘛對不對因為這是涉及到專業工程專業的一個部分捷運的部分是地方捷運計劃如果是高價化或立體化是中央"},{"start":7002.614,"end":7003.134,"text":"adequate to"},{"start":7023.444,"end":7024.445,"text":"三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度"},{"start":7052.02,"end":7052.66,"text":" bicylce"},{"start":7080.156,"end":7084.478,"text":"好,謝謝陳樹葉召委。接下來有請蔡奇章委員發言。謝謝主席。先請交通部陳部長跟林所長。好,林替國所長。"},{"start":7111.571,"end":7120.159,"text":"部長早、所長早這個今天本席就叫幾個問題第一個就是我們那個ADAS先進駕駛輔助系統"},{"start":7123.144,"end":7150.703,"text":"所長執行的成果怎麼樣過去在國道上面執行嗎是跟委員報告一下我們前兩年在國道執行當然就是幫業者去開發出來一個所謂的一個分析的一個平台工具也就是說後續他們業者可以直接就是利用ADAS還有這個一些行車影像的資料直接就可以去找出到底他所寫的哪些駕駛員他在什麼樣的一些"},{"start":7151.463,"end":7175.591,"text":"道路的一個情況之下比較會有一些不適當的駕駛行為那可以作為教育訓練的一個工具那進度上面我們實際在運用了嗎?國道的客運業者國道客運我們那個114年度我們準備就是要實際找一家業者來輔導他們來移轉給他們做使用好所以國道你要從國道跟市區道路是同時做還是分開做?"},{"start":7175.871,"end":7177.533,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":7193.893,"end":7215.644,"text":"你先會讓他們熟悉嘛然後也讓AI辨識度data多了他的辨識精準度就高嘛那實際在運用上面你覺得時間時程會落在什麼時候我想明年我們實際就是會找業者來做這一個示範嘛到時候就可以從這個過程當中我知道示範我知道但你覺得這個"},{"start":7217.106,"end":7224.566,"text":"這樣的系統普遍的運用在國道的客運跟市區的公車上面時間大概還要多久?"},{"start":7225.32,"end":7249.849,"text":"我預估大概三到五年十成盡量掌握啦如果這是一個有用的技術因為我們都知道這個系統裝上去如果成效好的話事實上對於國道客運特別在市區啦你看市區很多的這種車禍對行人公車去撞到行人等等"},{"start":7250.729,"end":7271.422,"text":"如果這個系統你們經過測試、教育訓練都可以成功,那未來勢必對於行人受到公車、大型巴士傷害的機率就下降。人民關天啦,這有好的事情,要早一點做、快一點做。我們加速。對,這都講實際的啦,除了有的,我聽都覺得..."},{"start":7274.563,"end":7291.647,"text":"但是這次馬上可以立即改善我們很多你看這種石橋啦公車在開在過程裡面司機沒有去注意到科技的發展協助這個公車的駕駛讓保障行人的安全這個很重要好不好首長114年度這預算要趕快去執行怎麼去縮短"},{"start":7296.788,"end":7296.908,"text":"總議長請回,請我們主委。"},{"start":7316.65,"end":7332.893,"text":"各位有關那個運安會我想多次我們在我辦公室我們有協調過有了解過那我其實有些數據趁著今天部長也在這個運安會第一個在事故調查暫期暫期率高達"},{"start":7334.261,"end":7346.941,"text":"高達65%這個很多的研究都顯示這個時間過長這個我也曾經跟你就教過那你也跟我提出包括這個運安會人力不足啦等等的問題你們要"},{"start":7349.622,"end":7374.648,"text":"不是像其他單位不是說其他單位隨便調查意思是說運安會非常認真調查所以你覺得時程都會久但是這個數字看起來並不好看你看這個運安會運輸事故調查的暫期情形你看這個暫期的比率從航空的23水路的76道路的63公路的13然後合計平均大概65這時間大家感覺很長所以那個"},{"start":7380.063,"end":7404.391,"text":"主委,這個有沒有可能可以縮短的這種可能性存在嗎?各位報告齁,這個展期率的統計它是從一開始成立的時候,它就算一直算到去年底。對,沒錯。那,因為我們這個院會成立的時候有三個主要因素是這樣子。我們成立的時候是要用人嘛,招考人來。"},{"start":7405.171,"end":7420.301,"text":"但是它並沒有籌備的階段。我知道,人不夠啦。我知道啦。直接就開始了啦。對,然後又要招待人,又要訓練,又要調查。對,沒錯。所以這個展示電話公司勾紮,譬如說...除了我這樣簡單講啦,原來就是說..."},{"start":7422.643,"end":7425.985,"text":"三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度"},{"start":7451.459,"end":7452.48,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於"},{"start":7475.277,"end":7475.637,"text":"第三個問題呢這個齁"},{"start":7502.608,"end":7513.872,"text":"我們提的因為運安會的調查報告結果就是要求行政單位來改善那我看一下這個要求要改善建立的事項在所謂分項執行計畫列管情形這個列管比例"},{"start":7521.724,"end":7538.674,"text":"這個列管比例都還有20幾%、10幾%甚至列管年限還有三年以上的一個事情要列管三年像我不知道三年以上哪一個案子像航空三年以上的就有五件嘛鐵道就有九件"},{"start":7540.258,"end":7555.203,"text":"都是列管三年以上,那個部長也在這裡,你要不要跟部長講一下,為什麼會列管這麼久,是你列管的有問題還是交通部執行的有問題,就是死不改嘛,所以你一直列管嘛,到底是什麼問題,你倆都站在這裡做一件事比較快。"},{"start":7557.003,"end":7582.017,"text":"因為那個完成率的這個數字的顯示最主要被幾個大數字拉下,譬如說,譬如說高雄機場他的那個跑法道的安全區他要改善,他要編列預算要編好幾年。譬如說台中機場那個區前干擾也是一樣,他跑法道需求檢查要改善的話,國防部編預算也是編了很多年,他就掛在那邊。好OK,你如果說他就在做了,"},{"start":7582.737,"end":7606.295,"text":"它已經在執行了,預算也照年度編列了。你們這個列管的方法要不要調整一下。這很難看嘛,這個事情一直在列管,三年以上還在列管。三年以上列管,如果你沒有告訴我,我認為他就是不做。三年都不做。那第二種解釋方式是,不對,他已經在做了,他已經做三年了,但還沒有做完,所以我還在列管。"},{"start":7607.813,"end":7626.385,"text":"對,委員你講的是重點,確實沒有錯。我們在行政院開會的時候,我們也跟政委報告說,譬如說台鐵,他已經有編了預算,那我們也看得到他的進入往前在走,那我們就會建議說這個就不要列關了。可是,像剛剛講的臺中青年康國防部編預算、棉香井高雄機場編預算、埋土地"},{"start":7627.125,"end":7629.386,"text":"單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":7650.171,"end":7674.728,"text":"我持續關注你的進度你沒有我就把你放到列管你沒有按照你的進度走我就回到列管但你只要按照進度走我應該是另外一種列管方式這樣我們立委在監督齁才不會每天看到這種看到這種三年以上我都會覺得懷疑是現在是怎樣交通部沒要理他就對了完全不鳥你運安會嗎不是嘛所以你要讓我們知道什麼事情他不鳥你的"},{"start":7675.208,"end":7700.836,"text":"那我們該冤有頭再有主就要該怎麼監督那有一些是人家已經只著手在進行案子他就一定要做5年那你簡單講明年還有那個列管4年的因為他要做5年嘛我的意思是這樣你懂我意思嗎我們來檢討一個其實如果他進行中看得見了你應該有另外一種追蹤列管的方法而不是通通統合在一個好像都沒有做的那種列管裡面"},{"start":7701.636,"end":7701.656,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":7733.301,"end":7741.968,"text":"好,謝謝蔡委員。做一下宣告。單位發言到何新淳委員發言完畢之後,休息10分鐘。有請游浩委員發言。謝謝召委。那有請部長。好,陳部長。"},{"start":7771.288,"end":7796.162,"text":"還是要特別肯定一下部長因為今天原本列席的話出席的話是主委嘛那您特別出席還是要特別肯定一下部長那部長延續剛才像蔡啟昌委員以及許多委員所提到在運安會其實大家一直以來都在提到的就是每次的調查的時間不管是人力的關係預算的關係或者是相關議題的複雜程度"},{"start":7798.283,"end":7826.041,"text":"但是您在看大約運安會的報告大約產出的這個調查過程大概都要抓到多少時間之內才會出爐?您先抓一個概念上應該要對多少時間內才能夠出爐才能夠符合社會大眾的期待我覺得一些時間應該要三到六個月三到六個月內應該要讓社會社會大眾就知道嘛那我跟部長也說明一下"},{"start":7827.362,"end":7855.581,"text":"議員會的報告通常因為這個人力跟複雜的程度我記得上次4月20號本席諮詢的時候那主委是提到差不多每個案子幾乎是1.6到1.7個人力在負責一個案子所以幾乎每個案子就是還沒展延幾乎都要1到2年還有時候展延甚至到3年所以說剛才像蔡吉參委所提到的那這個部分就是大家希望議員會如何能夠精進那我就接著再請主委一起上台好了"},{"start":7861.109,"end":7874.86,"text":"主委剛才部長也有提到期許就是說三到六個月的話能夠來完成這個調查報告通常較符合社會的期待那本席在4月20號那時候質詢的時候也有提"},{"start":7876.321,"end":7903.784,"text":"原額不足那要如何來去爭取原額那在約聘的專業人才還怎麼樣能夠來去增加那時候本席有到這樣講一下運輸安全調查委員會目前在這一次的預算書的報告徵務人員5人編制人員15人技工1人約聘人員70人共92人在這一次的預算書跟去年的預算書原額跟總共的人數是差不多的所以表示說在去年再到今年以及到明年的部分"},{"start":7904.304,"end":7931.459,"text":"其實在這個調查的能力上依舊是能力不足的一個狀況那本期在上次所質詢的時候有提到他也希望主委能夠體諒這個運安會大家同仁的一個辛苦那來跟行政院或是跟部內來如何協調能夠增加這個人員的預算那我想請問一下主委在這個過程中這半年來講還有沒有就是開口跟哪一個官員或是跟院長提到這個能力需求"},{"start":7932.406,"end":7940.43,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":7957.077,"end":7969.337,"text":"有預計在明年會怎麼樣的方式來增加嗎?目前我們還沒有得到答案。沒有得到答案。那你是什麼時候問的?我們不知道答案。你上次跟人事監事總署開口提的時候是大概在幾月的時候?"},{"start":7971.518,"end":7995.445,"text":"包括ful委員有關我們太空人力的部分我們其實在我們的113年的原理評鑑裡面有有已經有提到規範人力是我們幾月提的今年3月份的報告今年3月份的報告那我4月22號質詢的時候也有提到希望能夠表達那在規範的過程中有沒有在任何書面或口頭的方式提到需要增加人力"},{"start":7997.609,"end":8024.26,"text":"我們目前就是就是永遠評鑑的部分對那所以說嘛我坦白講就是說如果沒有辦法去積極的去反映這件事情的話那運安會永遠都會處於一個就是調查人力不足的一個情況那所以說今天部長也在那卓也在我希望說不管是之前的委員有提到這個事情那我相信等一下有其他委員也一樣會提到同樣的事那所以本期還是希望說"},{"start":8025.14,"end":8046.171,"text":"在這個第二會期再次也檢討跟就是希望運安會能夠針對人力調查能力的部分來去做一個實際上積極的爭取那我覺得這才能夠去改善這個運安會能力不足在處理這個調查報告無法能夠縮短期程才符合社會期待那同樣的我們再看一下這個數據"},{"start":8048.499,"end":8064.73,"text":"我們看到了運安會的數據啊這個在相關揭露的部分我們看到了在這個執行率啊還跟他的達成率啊他是用從108年到現在的一個部分來去做一個完成率那其中來講"},{"start":8066.723,"end":8093.144,"text":"議員會主委您是航空背景那我們看到航空背景的這個完成率其實確實比較高但是在水路、鐵路還包括陸路的這個部分它的完成率確實偏低那在這個立案調查數量以及包括在歷年改善完成率的部分那本席還是要再次強調這個完成率的部分是過於美化因為它的完成數是108年到現在的總數"},{"start":8095.586,"end":8110.101,"text":"那如果說再把這個當年度新立的案子再把它看當年度能否完成或是再把它抓成兩年之內能否完成的話那它的數字絕對不會像還九十幾、七十幾、八十幾還的這種數字"},{"start":8111.983,"end":8127.733,"text":"所以說在這個數字上本席還是要建議那把能力跟研究調查的能量能夠擴大才能夠真正讓運安會來產生實際的功能不然的話那過去的完成數從108年到現在的這個總數來看"},{"start":8131.455,"end":8157.923,"text":"兩年前、三年前立的案子現在好不容易結案但是在今年、去年立的案子都沒有辦法完成的時候這是美化的完成率啊所以本席還是要建議未來這樣子的一個改善數據應該依當年度或兩年度也同樣來去做一個解釋才能讓大家看到運安會對於兩年內、一年內立的案子還有他的一個積極處理程度當然本席在這裡提到這個部分也是老調重談啦"},{"start":8158.723,"end":8182.475,"text":"因為在很多的委員其實都常在提到如果能夠來改善運安會這個調查能力跟能量的事情但是我本期還在這裡還是要建議預算在審每個委員都在審預算那當然要會主委你也很認真的也第一時間在這個會期也帶了同仁來這邊溝通預算但是要解決委員在委員會所提到的問題"},{"start":8183.556,"end":8191.021,"text":"那如何能夠讓運輸安全調查委員會的功能能夠去精進?我相信這才是我們在審查預算希望集團單位能夠改進的本質。"},{"start":8191.906,"end":8214.844,"text":"那最後的話在這個交通部的業務報告有提到推動智慧運輸及交通產業發展在這個自駕車策略委員會的部分那在我們也看到在今年來也有許多自駕車的一個事故甚至火燒車那想接到主委那這個自駕車的這個相關的事故的調查的案子在今年度總共幾案?"},{"start":8217.381,"end":8237.38,"text":"自駕車我們最典型的就是戴雅路段那個撞房撞車那目前來講這樣子的報告對於目前所提那個之前所召開的自駕車策略委員會還開了巴士會那運安會的報告有沒有提供給自駕車策略委員會來去做參考"},{"start":8239.058,"end":8241.239,"text":"這個是沒有,因為我們都是公布在官網。"},{"start":8268.557,"end":8269.257,"text":"接下來有請何欣淳委員發言陳部長"},{"start":8302.774,"end":8314.245,"text":"部長好,早安。在我諮詢之前告訴你一個消息,不知道你有沒有手上及時知道。本來這個禮拜三要停靠台中港的挪威奉勁號郵輪,不來了。"},{"start":8320.194,"end":8333.372,"text":"這早上一早的收到訊息喔身為台中人我們一直在積極的在推動這個郵輪的一個商機那郵輪的觀光是可以讓台中港活絡那"},{"start":8334.073,"end":8356.289,"text":"好不容易好不容易破蛋了啦今年終於在12月有一艘郵輪要進來結果聽說是氣候的因素我不曉得這個等一下你會後可以再去詢問一下再去了解一下我們還是希望說台中港在交通部的努力之下跟地方政府的積極配合之下還是希望期待"},{"start":8357.19,"end":8359.891,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":8384.676,"end":8408.283,"text":"那他們呢這兩條線喔事實上對台中的捷運網來講非常重要剛剛蘇越委有提到了綠線綠線現在要延伸到大坑那往南要延伸到彰化那我們都積極而且全力支持喔那只是說這個整個不管是綠線、藍線、橘線喔我們的一個網絡要建立它的轉程"},{"start":8408.923,"end":8431.045,"text":"限與限之間的轉乘必須要方便那才能夠達到它最大的一個效益那也能夠方便我們不管是國內外的旅客還有我們自己的市民轉乘但是現在在台中火車站我們上次我相信我們局長知道我在交通委員會有諮詢然後我們有去考察"},{"start":8431.826,"end":8444.196,"text":"那現在藍線橘線的這個轉乘的距離上次考察局長有跟我們說了幾個方案那目前你知道臺中市政府的規劃進度為何請局長"},{"start":8448.383,"end":8462.877,"text":"跟委員報告就局限的可行性研究市政府在上個月22號已經把這個可言報告修正送到交通部這邊來我們最近已經簽報給部裡面打算就是建議部裡面召開審查委員會來做後續的確認"},{"start":8466.34,"end":8469.443,"text":"當初審查委員會的意見會在中規的時候來做最後的確認。那我們是在臺中在附近...到中規還要多久的時間?"},{"start":8484.237,"end":8498.267,"text":"可言合定之後進行中規應該通常要一年到兩年左右的時間。我們希望當然地方政府要努力我們也希望中央審查的速度可不可以再加快一點我們等很久了好不好"},{"start":8499.728,"end":8517.567,"text":"接下來我就要問喔那如果說已經有進度那也有相關的在談論這個轉成的設計要更方便創造旅客捷運台鐵都能夠三引喔我現在有一個實體的這個照片就是現在預留為轉運站的一個土地嘛那還有"},{"start":8518.588,"end":8530.217,"text":"檯鐵的開發案也是在這裡嘛那另外這一個地圖呢就是當初我們手上看到台中市政府給我們的一個圖示表那我們現在到底是要增設還是共購我想要把這個藍線橘線的轉成過去的規劃是長達380公尺的一個"},{"start":8538.223,"end":8540.283,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":8564.495,"end":8592.907,"text":"跟委員報告我們有建議臺中市政府就是未來應該是要朝向增設共購的方向來做努力也就是原來的歐16站仍然保留那在靠近臺中火車站這個地方增加一個車站那如果有機會的話可以跟臺鐵的這個開發的這個用地來做共購那這樣子的話等於是對於上面未來的開發跟下面的這個轉乘跟交通都是互謀其利的"},{"start":8592.927,"end":8593.847,"text":"三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度"},{"start":8620.556,"end":8641.318,"text":"除了藍線,藍線現在台中要拚動工明年要動工那現在我的個人看法藍線事實上現在只做半套啦另外一個延伸線如果能夠一起做的話還叫做做整套的啦因為現在的藍線是從海線延伸到甘城而已那對不起從海線到甘城"},{"start":8641.778,"end":8669.513,"text":" bicyn 若果我要從甘城我要延伸進去屯區那現行我知道台中市政府規劃進太平那進太平呢太平是一個新興的一個都會型的一個行政區域那已經超過20萬人口所以呢我相信如果延伸進來太平的話可以讓可以讓什麼這一個藍線的一個未來的營運絕對會是有正面強大的效益所以呢我希望"},{"start":8670.453,"end":8692.772,"text":"台中市政府是不是已經把南線延伸太平的這一個可行性已經交通部這邊在審查了嗎?已經在交通部了。已經在交通部了嘛對不對。那交通部部長支持一定要支持那審查快一點。那審查的速度就是趙委員所說的加速來審查。是我希望我們建議我們期待那"},{"start":8693.473,"end":8695.955,"text":"單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":8713.249,"end":8732.206,"text":"adequang 動工沒關係雖然有時間差但是呢我們可以並案處理我覺得這是一個態度而且是一個有效率的一個處理方式嗎可以嗎部長我們覺得可以並案處理如果兩岸可以並案處理即便是南線的前期已經先開工我們太平的這一段在後期跟上其實是可以的"},{"start":8732.912,"end":8733.112,"text":"當然你是支持阿!"},{"start":8747.932,"end":8770.673,"text":"支持並案處理。並案處理之後我們可以無縫接軌合併施工施工他是可以我知道你們都是專家捷運的施工是可以分標分包然後是可以不同的時間點希望呢能夠陸陸續續的動工動工完之後呢未來呢通車也是可以階段性我們希望就是一次能夠做到好啦"},{"start":8771.554,"end":8790.141,"text":"這沒有問題嘛好不好部長因為我相信大台中的捷運網路需要部長你大力的支持綠線、藍線、橘線還有呢大屏幕的紫線那都是呢剛好都是在大台中的一個人口非常稠密的一個都會型的行政區域裡面"},{"start":8791.201,"end":8792.382,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":8830.837,"end":8840.827,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。"},{"start":9462.349,"end":9480.202,"text":"好,我們繼續開會。接下來有請徐富奎委員發言。謝謝主席,我們有請交通部陳部長,鐵道局楊局長。好,楊局長,鐵道局。"},{"start":9490.908,"end":9507.096,"text":"部長好局長早部長我想再過半個月我們2024就要接近就結束我們即將迎接2025那請教部長對於品農團來講他們期待2025年的一個新年禮物部長知道是什麼嗎?"},{"start":9508.737,"end":9533.686,"text":"請委員指示我想我們就是希望聽到高鐵南延的好消息啦是是是對但是這個消息我想部長這個最近在委員會本席也一直在期待部長趕快給我們這個好消息那距離這個半個月也快到了部長這個好消息會實現嗎報告委員其實高鐵南延屏東這個是國家的政策這個早就定案"},{"start":9534.686,"end":9557.567,"text":"所以這個禮物其實屏東人應該已經拿到了這個沒有問題那現在的問題是在於說我們整個工程的過程當中我們的規劃是要走左營岸也就是高屏二塊這條路線或者要走高雄岸也就是高雄火車站的這條路線這兩岸我們要擇一岸是這個部分在年底之前我們會確定但是延伸到高雄這個是已經確定這是國家政策"},{"start":9557.887,"end":9584.702,"text":"部長那請教一下我們目前的說明會全部都辦完了嗎?報告委員我們總共有四場的地方說明會已經辦完了那另外還有就是賴委員也有辦了一場那就是第五場的地方說明會那另外我們還有專家學者的這個說明會有兩場那這個部分已經先完成了那部長自己參加跟局長參加完之後覺得到底我們的部分會傾向是高雄案還是左營案?"},{"start":9586.287,"end":9604.705,"text":"報告委員目前聽起來對於高雄的鄉親跟地方的民意代表應該是有一些地方發展的期待希望說如果走高雄案對於整體的這個高雄市區裡面或者是比較南高雄的部分的未來的發展可能會有一些幫助"},{"start":9605.805,"end":9624.598,"text":"但是我想包含本席跟我們很多鄉親憂慮的是因為目前我們高雄案原本要開挖的面積有3.34公里5.82公頃長度大概有3.34公里這麼長那我們目前有稍微做一個縮減到2.04公里跟面積把它降低到309公頃"},{"start":9626.119,"end":9645.552,"text":"但是這樣子的用地徵收跟所謂的一個溝通的過程會不會在訂案之後又要花很多時間在處理這些所謂的一個行政用地的程序?報告委員我當然知道屏東的鄉親是希望能夠速度快一點所以第一我們在規劃的過程當中我們盡量需要徵收的面積會盡量減少"},{"start":9646.753,"end":9675.038,"text":"那需要拆遷的戶數也會盡量減少就是盡量不要影響到民眾的這個住的權益盡量不要影響到民眾一般生活的這個生活模式盡量不影響那我們在綠園道的部分不影響的面積也達到95%也就是說會影響只有5%那我相信把影響降到最低那我們跟高雄市政府這邊也會密切來溝通密切來配合例如說未來如果要朝都更的方向那我相信地方上面的主力就會"},{"start":9675.478,"end":9675.698,"text":" bicyC."},{"start":9675.698,"end":9696.698,"text":"降低更多,如果可以做都更的話,我相信許多民眾都會蠻支持啦。對,這裡還是要拜託部長,部長我想你也當過民意代表,你也在行政院服務過,影響百姓就會造成很多的後續很多問題的產生。沒錯沒錯,我們希望影響降到最低。那當然我們也希望你們在規劃的過程同時應該要去處理用力的問題,一定要同步去進行啦。會會會。"},{"start":9698.74,"end":9721.606,"text":" tatto好消息之後結果又要等到五年十年之後再動工。這個不是我們所樂見的。是我們會同步來進行也會跟地方政府也就是高雄市政府密切來配合。好那也要跟屏東縣政府也要來好好的來溝通。當然是。那另外就是上次本席有請教過部長就是針對台鐵六快速車站預計吸引2.6公里跟我們高鐵共購有這個規劃案嗎?"},{"start":9723.464,"end":9750.636,"text":"那目前但是我們在目前我們交通部跟鐵道局的預算裡面並沒有看到這樣的一個相關的經費那請教部長這個明年會不會動工是報告委員這個部分我們明年會先簽一個計畫給行政院讓行政院這邊來核定希望明年也可以來動工好不好我們明年先把計畫先送到行政院由行政院來核定之後我們就會來加速動工好"},{"start":9751.107,"end":9771.797,"text":"那除了這個高鐵的問題之外我想我還是要幫我們屏東的鄉親來請命這部分本席也一直在跟我們的鐵道局一直在溝通那個照片顯示部長我們的屏東的車站有很多好幾個車站目前還是所謂的一個平面式的車站"},{"start":9772.918,"end":9795.494,"text":"那即使我們現在有一部分包含訪寮大平台計畫都要整個拉高之後但是還是有很多車站面臨所謂的一個交通事故跟一個淹水的一個問題還是還是要強調我們一定要爭取所謂的一個全線高價化的一個計畫這部分還是要請部長跟局長多幫忙那部長這邊有沒有什麼規劃的想法"},{"start":9795.934,"end":9823.893,"text":"報告委員其實我覺得這一段大家要思考的是在極端氣候之後您這個照片看得出來就是說有時候只要下大雨或是颱風來那一段的軌道可能就會被淹沒這個部分對軌道的運行來講是危險的那所以我們其實整個高價化除了經濟效益之外也要再思考就是極端氣候之後那這個軌道的這個韌性跟整體交通的韌性那這個部分交通部跟鐵道局會來做整體的規劃跟評估"},{"start":9825.236,"end":9841.399,"text":"因為對平東鄉親來講我們長期碰到就是所謂的一個火車因為我們現在火車的頻率很高經過的頻率很高那行駛過程裡面就常常碰到所謂的一個平交道的阻擋甚至這個事故有時候事故的造成"},{"start":9841.8,"end":9842.361,"text":" bicyC.是是是"},{"start":9861.192,"end":9874.921,"text":"另外針對我們平南關公鐵道的部分請教一下部長我們今年3月20重啟可行性評估之後11月已經提出期中報告目前的研議方向是不是可以一個正面的答覆?"},{"start":9876.613,"end":9894.074,"text":"這個部分我是不是請局長好不好?請局長回答。各位報告,這個現在我們相關的作業都非常的順利。所以這個規劃我們未來會再跟屏東縣政府這邊就路線還有這個車站的設置等等進行進一步的這個溝通。預計明年就可以完成這個可行性研究。"},{"start":9895.175,"end":9923.155,"text":"對,因為我想部長也跟局長也常常到墾丁去啦哈這幾年墾丁確實是面臨一個觀光的一個瓶頸那我想有一個新的一個交通的一個刺激然後加上我們未來一些新的景點的開發確實我覺得對整個觀光旅遊業有很大的注意但是我們很擔心這樣一個評估的一個速度太慢甚至我們這個施工的期程會拉得太長那部長針對這部分有沒有信心可以來完成盡快來完成這個案子"},{"start":9924.59,"end":9951.493,"text":"報告委員這個可行性研究的部分我們盡量來協助就是說看速度可不可以再加快一點明年年中看可不可以趕快做出來另外一個就是對我們野海鄉鎮最關心的就是我們的高雄捷運的一個小港陵園到東港陵邊這條路線目前高雄端已經開工了預計在119年完工通車但是屏東這邊似乎還沒有聽到"},{"start":9952.824,"end":9968.166,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":9968.757,"end":9997.319,"text":"是 這個部分我們也來跟高雄市政府也來協助因為我知道我們的選址車站選址這些都已經路線都已經確定了嘛對對對現在應該只有剩下林園石化縣的這一段那這部分我想應該要趕快去溝通啦好就查這個單位應該是我們加快的啟程啦好 這個我們來加速好 那就所有我們屏東的交通建設真的要希望部長跟局長多多的支持好 我們一起努力我們要實踐賴總統的區域均衡發展交通建設絕對是一個很重要的一個要件啦好 好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":10002.449,"end":10021.945,"text":"好謝謝許委員接下來有請廖先祥委員發言好謝謝主席麻煩我們的陳部長陳部長"},{"start":10031.428,"end":10031.488,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":10048.797,"end":10049.417,"text":" bicyclist 姜濤"},{"start":10075.643,"end":10100.975,"text":"我上禮拜有跟部長說明一下我本身是開電動車所以我對於這種新人員在運輸載具的使用上面有一些我的一些想法啦那其實過去很長一段時間不只這一艘貨輪還有其他的貨輪等等的都會發生一些擱淺漏油等等的事件但我沒想過其實我們現在在運輸轉型的方面有兩大的方向一個是電動"},{"start":10101.835,"end":10101.935,"text":"獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":10122.042,"end":10123.783,"text":" bicy、林信得列席報告議員"},{"start":10146.542,"end":10175.318,"text":"關於交通力方面,雖然青人的人員轉換率是比電能差一點,但是它的交通力,同樣大概一個規模的交通力,就像輕車可以比電動車開更遠,那一樣的輕船也可以比電動船開得更遠。我不曉得我們對於,因為我們有航港的一些作業等等,那可能還有更大的一個方針是國家的經濟部的一個方針。那我們有沒有思考過,因為我們有很多的航港的單位,包括港務公司等等,也都是航空部下轄,"},{"start":10176.198,"end":10180.879,"text":"報告委員在交通部的部分因為未來的整體的交通運輸的減碳跟永續其實是個很重要的議題那這個部分我們其實也都在理解並且在希望能夠推動那不過這個部分要看"},{"start":10203.306,"end":10226.661,"text":"整個國際例如說以輪船來講的話國際上大家希望用什麼樣子的新燃料就是未來比較減碳比較永續的一個燃料是什麼那交通部這邊在航港的部分就是用全力配合例如說如果是委員剛剛所提到的如果未來的趨勢是走向加輕輕氣的這個船的話那我們的整個港埠設施就必須要有加輕氣的這個設施必須要建構"},{"start":10229.343,"end":10231.604,"text":"單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":10257.217,"end":10278.366,"text":"一級單位也要去做分工我們剛才我們港務公司等等或是港港局要去做的一些配套也都要起草做準備啦那另外再請教一下這個跟這個運輸運安會可能有點關係啦過去幾年啦大家其實常常有在討論就有一件事情會變形有一題就是說特斯拉的輔助駕駛"},{"start":10279.286,"end":10299.057,"text":"那他可能在高速公路上面發生追撞的事故比較高,那我不曉得這件事情在最近這段時間有沒有來做相對應的降低?降低啊?數據上,其實特斯拉我們很像...不只特斯拉,應該是所有的電動車有輔助駕駛的,這方面有沒有降低比較多?"},{"start":10299.605,"end":10319.003,"text":"跟委員報告一下目前大概就是說之前大家比較關注的可能有一些這個車輛駕駛開這個駕駛輔助系統去撞到高速公路的這個工程這個防撞車的這個部分是那這個這個部分我們大概有做一個最終的部分大概第一個有開輔助駕駛跟沒有開輔助駕駛大概就一半一半"},{"start":10319.683,"end":10347.37,"text":"另外有開輔助駕駛的部分其實那個廠牌也沒有見到所謂的這個集中性大概其實大概我們大概也知道說其實目前大概就是說Level 1、Level 2在其他這個各廠牌大概是一個蠻標準的一個這個配配那目前從統計數字上面看到的這個部分的話是沒有講說沒有是沒有看到特別集中在哪一個廠牌的那事故率有沒有降低或者是"},{"start":10348.59,"end":10369.581,"text":"大家可能最近比較少聽到這個就是車輛在去撞這個工程防撞車有關於這個輔助駕駛的部分其實部裡面跟這個高音局一直在做宣導那另外在這個車輛安全審驗端的部分也做了一些相關的加強比如說車主所測裡面一定要把這些輔助駕駛的東西寫得特別這個重點"},{"start":10370.782,"end":10371.763,"text":" bicyclist﹑sir﹑sir﹑sir﹑sir﹑"},{"start":10387.105,"end":10407.939,"text":"那另外在這個高雄警那個部分的話也請他們去加強就是說後面工程黃狀車一些相當交為這個部分的一個這個其實我想提這個當然是最近他這也是一個新聞議題那好像過去會給大家的一個認知輔助駕駛或者是自動駕駛可能會有比較高的一個事故率那撇開追撞工程車這件事情我們有沒有做過相關的統計我們"},{"start":10410.14,"end":10410.84,"text":" bicyclist"},{"start":10429.141,"end":10454.338,"text":"這個跟我們報告一下確實就是說要把車輛這個區分就是說你當時有沒有開輔助駕駛這個系統這個部分都是要這個事故之後親自訪談的部分比較難這個事前就去做區分因為確實現行的車輛在外表的特徵上面的那個部分是沒有做這個部分所以要去統計那個平均當量的那個部分是有點"},{"start":10454.718,"end":10475.191,"text":"其實我會問這個問題最主要是其實在國外啦在國外相關的研究比如說自己汽車品牌自己做的研究或者是第三方的一些研究等等的開現在其實國外有一些全自動駕駛開全自動駕駛的事故率大概是純手工我們人類開車的事故率大概是十分之一如果說用他的里程數來算的話"},{"start":10476.132,"end":10495.245,"text":"大概他們全自動的大概是十倍的里程才會發生一次事故那人類當然就是十分之一的里程就會發生一次事故所以說其實國外在很多包括舊金山美國舊金山或者是一些洛杉磯或者是我不要講美國講對岸在很多的城市其實很多的"},{"start":10496.314,"end":10521.083,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。netesi,我們不知道我們國內統計數據是什麼樣但是在國外相關的統計數據上面全自動無人的駕駛的車輛的事故率其實都是比人為開車的事故率還低那我們不曉得我們國內目前有沒有在討論無人計程車這件事情"},{"start":10525.044,"end":10542.451,"text":"報告委員,國外在試行無人計程車它也是特定區域對,當然它都會劃定區域對,它慢慢就會更擴張那未來也可能會成為一個趨勢所以其實我們台灣相關的單位包含交通部應該也要開始來討論有任何的廠商國內或國外的廠商來提出申請嗎?"},{"start":10543.765,"end":10561.351,"text":"跟委員報告一下上次大概我也有關系到這個課題就是說其實國內屬於這個自動駕駛這個場域的部分的話大概目前適用的是經濟部那個無人載具的那個部分但是目前在透過這個管道的話大概主要是這些相關自駕系統開發的廠商還沒有所謂的車廠的一個這個部分啦"},{"start":10565.752,"end":10590.099,"text":"那我們也很這個就是說樂見國內的相關車廠比如說納茲捷或是等等部分他們有投入這一個整車的部分的話那如果說有這些相關比較成熟的這一個產品的話那目前交通部已經在做法規的調適已經在做法規的調適因為我講的是其實我們最近可能國內討論比較多的就是一個行人安全行人安全那既然全自動的無人駕駛的車輛"},{"start":10591.8,"end":10591.98,"text":" bicyC."},{"start":10591.98,"end":10606.673,"text":"他的安全性、他的事故率都比我們人為駕駛人還來的低。那我也希望我們交通部未來,我不知道有沒有廠商提出申請,那未來我們對於這樣新的一個世界的趨勢,是朝一個開放的一個心態。因為我知道有時候引進一個新的東西,"},{"start":10607.333,"end":10607.573,"text":"adequ.謝謝委員"},{"start":10639.107,"end":10650.656,"text":"好,謝謝廖委員。接下來有請陳學生委員發言。好,謝謝導委。是不是請交通部陳部長。陳部長。"},{"start":10658.884,"end":10674.921,"text":"因為時間很急迫,我們抬高雄到馬祖的航線,很像元旦再過後元月三的話就停掉了,包機啊?對,包機的部分到元旦。那所以很急的是油料的部分。"},{"start":10675.981,"end":10678.242,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":10697.21,"end":10720.268,"text":"其實五階段也很簡單一階段二階段應該都沒什麼問題了那三階段四階段就是飛行嘛五階段就是飛行的問題還有順便的審查那請他們動作快一點好不好好這個我們來加速那現在我們跟馬祖的防衛部還有國防部協調差不多了也就是說一月三號以後三班那麼現在華信講運能不足"},{"start":10721.289,"end":10746.469,"text":"他們的飛機不夠。他說運能不足,就飛機不夠。那現在怎麼夠勒?到過年就不夠了。因為金門跟澎湖有大飛機在飛,馬祖沒有,受限於跑道的限制。所以拜託就是說華信那邊,華信可能也在推,他怕虧本。所以拜託部長最後面跟他講一下。"},{"start":10747.689,"end":10766.665,"text":"他想運能不夠就運能不夠啊,你叫民航局給他算一下嘛,他是不是運能不夠,他運能夠不夠我們一定會知道嘛,對不對?這個會算得出來。對,可以算得出來。那1月3號以後咧?如果我今天弄不出來的話,這裡面又牽涉到又要包機了。"},{"start":10768.087,"end":10773.616,"text":"縣政府真的已經上次動之地為必經,已經斷盡援絕。如果1月3號固定航班的申請還沒有下來的話,拜託是不是部長?"},{"start":10782.932,"end":10803.315,"text":"今年公安署署長說沒錢了嘛對不對?那明年年度預算新的開始啊,我會幫公安署護航嘛好不好?那你再給個兩百萬可以嗎?我來協助溝通。不協助溝通我砍你五百萬,你不是還虧三百萬啊?我們這邊當面講好就好了嘛好不好?"},{"start":10805.432,"end":10829.509,"text":"上次高雄市長有給一百萬你知道嗎?我知道第一批的時候啦第二批他就給了一百萬當然許智傑委員會拜託他啦我跟高雄市長的私交也不錯我們一起來促成你知道嗎?馬祖德鄉親實在沒辦法的話我們第三階段的包機繼續再包嘛因為不要讓人家笑話嘛"},{"start":10830.356,"end":10857.023,"text":"我們堂堂的行政院、交通部、立法院有進度了啦!其實您也一直在努力啊!我知道!我知道!部長也在努力啊!我也很感謝啊!前幾天給部長打電話,你馬上就很爽快地答應我了嘛!因為現在華信啊!一直希望保7!所謂保7就是7成的載客率!到達7成的載客率!而他保8!他只要8成的載客率!他才飛!"},{"start":10858.163,"end":10882.912,"text":"那我們縣政府是講說七成的在客率七成在客率如果我虧的話我縣政府來承擔嘛那我們也找到防衛部說他飛機飛過來我們官兵我們不是幫我們老百姓的忙幫官方客人的忙我們還幫國防部的忙是不是?我想國防部本來應該向他要點錢但是算了因為希望他阿兵哥能夠"},{"start":10886.431,"end":10903.803,"text":"大部份都阿兵哥啊,我們馬祖老闆已經住在高雄的不多啊,我們也希望就藉此把南部的觀光客能夠帶動,把他帶到馬祖來,這很重要的。那保七、保八,那部長也答應我說,"},{"start":10905.08,"end":10916.545,"text":"這個我們來協調看看保七部長你負責對航空公司來說保八就是不虧損華信航空大概是希望不虧損華信不是不虧損華信的成本在7.5"},{"start":10919.233,"end":10946.081,"text":"七點五,七點五他要保八還賺零點五他的意思。那部長你也跟我講說保七應該可以嘛,不是保七總得要七成。我覺得能夠達到七成已經是個很好的進展。你華信要去努力嘛,你華信不能躺在床上賺錢,對不對?天底下沒有白痴的舞者。報告委員華信現在都在虧錢,他們沒有賺錢。還好吧,立龍有錢賺。"},{"start":10948.062,"end":10967.017,"text":"他好好飛嘛,再努力一下,我們再協助他招攬公關,你看陳金脈市長跟我們連江縣王中平縣長都已經答應了。我們一起努力讓他的載客率不要只有七成,盡量往上再拉。但是新政府保七已經是一個很大的一個進展了。後來前天晚上我打電話給華航的謝董事長,"},{"start":10970.078,"end":10993.125,"text":"謝董事長說保期他說要找底下研究一下因為華信的董事長是中華航空公司的總經理嘛所以我想抓要抓頭啊你懂了沒有所以我請謝董事長幫忙謝董事長說要跟他商量我想部長你有沒有打電話給謝董事長有啦有溝通這個我會協助溝通啦你多打幾次電話給他嘛"},{"start":10994.565,"end":11023.381,"text":"因為謝董事長人也蠻好的,你多講兩次他也會軟掉,我覺得他人不錯,尤其你部長的身分,你有權責可以把董事長換掉的,開什麼玩笑?你跟他打一通電話那還得了啊?會啦,我們時常在溝通,我跟謝董時常在溝通。那就保七好不好?保七。我努力來朝這個委員所指示。那謝董事長說先飛一班,就是包機兩班以後先飛一班。"},{"start":11024.221,"end":11043.2,"text":"那先飛一般的問題在哪裡呢?先飛一般的話,高雄的飛機飛過來,我們的人飛過去,我們的人飛過去沒問題。他要對接啊,要對接啊。所以我拜託指揮官就是說馬防部指揮官啊,你去阿兵哥休假坐這個飛機到高雄。"},{"start":11044.264,"end":11071.051,"text":"那在那邊休假幾天再坐這個飛機回到房區來。如果這樣搭配的話一架也還好啦。不過時間應該是禮拜四、禮拜五、禮拜天吧。我希望能夠至少飛兩趟。至少飛兩架次一個禮拜啦。現在是三架次嘛。最少先飛兩架次固定航班啦。開航以後先飛兩架次。"},{"start":11072.233,"end":11087.28,"text":"那我據何時明局長的講法是華信目前還沒有提出固定航班的申請你現在都還沒有提出申請現在已經12月幾號了他還是需要差不多一個月的時間所以我評估啊"},{"start":11089.561,"end":11110.44,"text":"第三階段的包機可能還要繼續所以才拜託部長公安署你們那兩百萬好不好我請華憲那邊盡量加速啦可以朝正常航班那是比較好他龜速他不是加速對我請他加速加速他要虧本啊虧得快啊他龜速啊"},{"start":11111.181,"end":11139.411,"text":"所以再請那個何局長盯一下,那你也跟何局長講主持一個會議好不好找中遊啦、連江縣政府,縣長會親自來那委員列席嘛,我也找許智傑委員也去列席嘛把這個會議我希望一次不要一而不決,我們一次開會一定要到位把這個事情把它弄好好不好?好包含兩百萬也好"},{"start":11142.088,"end":11153.099,"text":"公安署你可以啦,不然跟署長講他OK啦,不要說兩百萬、三百萬他都會願意啦,等審預算的時候我們再來談好不好?現在談比較尷尬一點"},{"start":11154.855,"end":11156.636,"text":"第三階段的包機不能停止,然後接續固定航班。"},{"start":11184.136,"end":11187.619,"text":"接下來有請邱若驊委員發言有請交通部陳部長"},{"start":11219.231,"end":11243.286,"text":"部長好本席今天要跟您討論的是我們臺灣的高速鐵路那本席有看到您在12日的時候接受媒體訪問的時候有表示喔軌道運輸都是一段一段的發展那換到高鐵要看未來的科技然後還有未來政府的財政狀況但現在的建設都會預留違規提供未來延伸的可能那部長您還有說到現在雖然您現在沒有辦法告訴大家"},{"start":11244.167,"end":11261.364,"text":" bicyn 現在就要蓋環島高鐵,那未來10年20年後以政府的能力蓋環島高鐵不一定是困難的是吧,部長這是您說的嗎?那本席想先請問部長就是以長遠的角度來看那在科技跟財政方面都沒有問題的情況下您支持興建環島高鐵嗎?"},{"start":11262.845,"end":11290.958,"text":"如果財政跟科技都沒有問題的話那有這樣的需求我當然就支持啦其實跟委員報告過去呢我們目前所習慣的這個台鐵從過去也是只有台北到新竹這一段然後慢慢一段一段延伸然後最後才有這個整體的這個環島的路網那環島的路網整體的建置起來是差不多花了100年的時間花了100年的時間但我相信高鐵的部分要做一個環島的路網或許不需要這麼長的時間"},{"start":11292.519,"end":11303.527,"text":"是部長其實您這個有這個想法您並不果斷我們先來看一個影片環島高鐵我覺得不是夢未來的這個工程技術會越來越強"},{"start":11306.226,"end":11307.367,"text":"我不曉得我是不是請局長好不好"},{"start":11339.642,"end":11352.328,"text":"民國87年,那土木工程是什麼時候完工的?土木工程應該在96年通車前3年左右吧。您知道這樣子花費多長的時間嗎?"},{"start":11353.975,"end":11370.812,"text":"我們高鐵的規劃是在民國79年開始規劃87年動工96年通車是從規劃然後到通車總共花了17年那部長你有提到就是未來的10年20年如果未來20年我們希望可以看到環島高鐵那是不是現在就要來開始進行規劃"},{"start":11374.616,"end":11398.227,"text":"當然我們軌道的建設是一段一段我們當然剛剛也有其他的委員在質詢的內容就是往屏東的方向這一段先拉過去那也有另外一個議題也正在執行當中就是說拉往宜蘭的部分我們一段一段的往外拉不過這兩段其實還是要花一些時間目前也都還在規劃的階段而已"},{"start":11398.467,"end":11420.995,"text":"也還在規劃的階段有更明確的除了規劃的階段之外還有沒有其他的評估像是地質還有它的效益跟它的安全性有其實往宜蘭的延伸已經在環評環評做完在環評當中那南部的這個方案其實也都還沒有進入到綜合規劃因為我們路線都還沒有選擇出來所以其實都還要一段時間"},{"start":11421.775,"end":11443.629,"text":"那本席剛才就是問到部長是因為想要表達在25年前的台灣就有能力將就可以能夠在6年內將台灣的西部高鐵完工那這代表台灣的基礎建設能力是非常優秀的那請問部長您認同嗎就是您看到這個當時我們在興建這個台灣西部的高速鐵路從它的可行性研究然後到它營運通車"},{"start":11444.991,"end":11446.572,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":11469.708,"end":11487.541,"text":"會更高,那您認為自愛男性的部分會是什麼樣的因素呢?這個要實質去規劃的時候才會知道啦。實質的規劃,那會需要多長的時間?多長時間?這個是不是我們先完成宜蘭跟屏東端之後,我們可以慢慢的再努力往後規劃。"},{"start":11488.393,"end":11515.526,"text":"OK好那針對我們環島高鐵的這個議題部分那也要和部長分享了因為已現有的工程技術應該不是問題啊因為同屬環太平洋火山帶的日本他們過去也曾發生過強震那我們台灣一直也都是因為歸咎於我們在地震的關係所以執行起來是有難度的可是日本的新幹線是全世界第一個投入商業營運的高速鐵路系統那本席要舉例像是日本第一條的新幹線"},{"start":11517.087,"end":11539.275,"text":"為東京往大阪的東海道幹線,他是在1964年10月1號通車營運的,那他目前有十幾條線是由日本的JR集團他旗下無家的JR集團公司負責,如果我們引進就是海外的技術我想應該不會有太大的難題在執行上面,那也請就是部長還有我們的局長那在希望可以後續盡快來做規劃。"},{"start":11540.936,"end":11568.672,"text":" bicy,我們朝這個方向來努力。另外本席之前也有問到關於我們台鐵逃票的問題。這一部分部長您應該很清楚吧?是。在今年因為我們10月23日也有專報針對民眾攻擊台鐵基層站務人員還有惡意逃票的行為本席有對我們台鐵的董事長提出質詢。當時本席是以這個路某這個逃票的專家他已經算是職業的逃票慣犯了。"},{"start":11569.773,"end":11570.593,"text":" bicylcee"},{"start":11590.081,"end":11603.098,"text":"以我們嚴列車長就是我們台鐵的列車長他曾經有說過他個人最高紀錄他單月就查漏了500張補票的張數那補票金額高達10萬元那這邊想請教部長還有我們的局長要怎麼來解決這個問題"},{"start":11605.131,"end":11625.538,"text":"投票的部分其實我覺得當然台鐵的列車長大家都很辛苦不斷在車上做查票的動作那再來就是說進出那個閘口的這個查驗的部分可能要更落實就是說他進站的時候或許是用刷卡的或許是用實體票的這個進出站的這個查驗可能要比過去再更落實一些"},{"start":11626.469,"end":11651.225,"text":"因為有基層第一線的同仁他們也有提到說臺鐵公司並沒有賦予臺鐵員工在法律上的強制力那這樣子他們要怎麼來做取定呢?如果遇到這種狀況大概我們會找鐵路警察除了鐵路警察之外呢?我們是不是要該研議來修法?修法可是即便是修法也不太可能賦予臺鐵的員工執法的權利"},{"start":11654.025,"end":11681.546,"text":"部長您這邊提到的是沒有辦法賦予台鐵員工的強制力那這邊那逃票我們只能仰賴鐵路警察來做查緝嗎?報告委員如果說我們在法令上面如果可以做更強制力的賦予台鐵的員工的話那剛剛局長在說北捷很像就可以有這個強制力這我們可以來研究這可以來研究那請局長再與法務部還有我們的內政部來一起進行發布會的討論"},{"start":11682.487,"end":11701.634,"text":"最後這邊本席也要再提醒一次部長是捷運山陰線延伸至巴德堯部長您應該不陌生吧現在已經78天了請部長務必要提醒院長盡快將捷運山陰線延伸至巴德堯盡快來核定好謝謝部長謝謝委員"},{"start":11718.174,"end":11722.459,"text":"像因為登記質詢發言的委員魯明哲委員請魯明哲召委。謝謝主席,有請陳部長,還有鐵道局楊局長。請楊局長。"},{"start":11739.559,"end":11761.483,"text":"直接切入主題我們在機場捷運的耗資問題因為現在面臨要新購實列車可以六值四普這個在購車的過程中因為大家都知道列車只是骨頭它的神經系統就是耗資耗資出問題上次我在總諮詢7月5號也講了很多不過"},{"start":11764.924,"end":11779.699,"text":"我不知道待會因為上次質詢的是前部長李孟彥部長不過我剛剛看到不管是高雄的一個計畫時程台中的一個問之前李部長答應的我相信這個陳部長剛剛我看回答的問"},{"start":11780.78,"end":11782.721,"text":"現在是人多的 有一班是根本擠不上去"},{"start":11801.791,"end":11829.245,"text":"我們政人待會就要講話了我們那個劉委員每天來立法院是我們的集結的愛用戶那經常擠不上去啊待會他會來說那現在這個狀況你不解決不行啊來我們聽一下找到的這個部分那就就沒問題了就是這個新的車還是裝兩套到了我們中壢再西門子再裝一套兩套系統就這樣的湊合的過河"},{"start":11831.286,"end":11849.658,"text":"另外第二種方式呢?如果你真的買不到怎麼辦?因為現在都問不到怎麼辦?院長你要不要說一下?如果都買不到你有沒有什麼初步的想法?我的想法是因為他現在雖然使用林信不到啦但是安全的考量看有沒有特別的需求否則就是現在如果買到舊的未來還是問題"},{"start":11851.449,"end":11879.459,"text":"况現在要買到舊的可能很麻煩可能就是要全線做一個接行沒有訊號系統啊沒有辦法停啊如果可以更新系統他們一併新設站可以解決這個部分因為我認為是行政院級的一個要統合的一個問題是不是能拜託我們卓院長跟我們的部長還有鐵道局能夠深思這個問題在三個月之內你總是要有一個方向不然都來不及可以嗎?"},{"start":11880.439,"end":11880.919,"text":"現在一個情況是舊的系統"},{"start":11900.01,"end":11901.852,"text":"第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":11922.748,"end":11929.47,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":11946.316,"end":11947.877,"text":"五、審查114年度五、審查114年度五、審查114年度五、審查114年度"},{"start":11974.218,"end":11976.579,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":12002.68,"end":12027.117,"text":"我問你們嘛那交通部當然本身沒開會行政院也沒有開會嘛所以一個假的院級的問題就是我很興奮他只是一個答題的技巧他是一個質詢的技巧我覺得這樣都不太好啦鐵道局目前針對這個案子你們兩個理由啦第一個呢因為這個桃園市政府沒有就這樣的一個解決方案來請教你們大概是這樣第二個呢因為也不是你們局內"},{"start":12028.018,"end":12028.599,"text":" bicyclist 卓院長"},{"start":12039.775,"end":12042.397,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。��"},{"start":12067.919,"end":12089.861,"text":"地方政府比較希望能夠提早重置整個耗資系統要提早重置因為你要買新的車那舊的這個耗資大概也買不到了所以希望提早重置在交通部的立場其實我們是支持提早重置這個部分我們是支持的但是要由桃園市政府他們來提出來請他們提出來那我們會支持是提出來還是拿出來?"},{"start":12091.263,"end":12110.382,"text":"這個動詞很重要提出來是沒問題現在一個狀況是這樣他們因為五個月了因為他們畢竟第一線他們也應該包括捷工局跟大眾捷運公司不斷的找相關的開會甚至有其他廠商大家來討論現在因為現在頭已經洗下去了你知道嗎"},{"start":12110.962,"end":12111.663,"text":" bicyclap"},{"start":12134.244,"end":12138.945,"text":"單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":12162.012,"end":12180.142,"text":"是不是又要考慮全部那第二個方案是我們當時在討論說那你要全線到底也謝謝這個鐵道局有去發函給耗資公司喔所以希望你們來協助地方政府你好歹提出一個解決方案提出一個報價這是你們有發文的這我知道但他還報價啦"},{"start":12182.025,"end":12185.526,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。��"},{"start":12200.032,"end":12205.394,"text":"單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":12229.738,"end":12231.76,"text":"五、審查114年度二、審查114年度三、審查114年度四、審查114年度五、審查114年度"},{"start":12251.977,"end":12254.099,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":12274.68,"end":12288.01,"text":"報告員其實這個部分我們可以跟桃園市政府來做整體的討論包含說整個積極的這個資產的移轉的部分大家來做一個共同的討論或許能夠找出一個解決的方案"},{"start":12288.646,"end":12317.154,"text":"好 這個我務必要拜託你因為這個是真的是國家機場的大建設現在的因為從幾個行下未來三行下要來那這個部分的客人會真的很多現在擠在那邊其實難看那這個108億對於整個整個的一個補助叫地方出實在是不可能那現在的一個整個的一個集結整包我建議部長整包要去研究一下你們有第一個資產轉移方案"},{"start":12318.314,"end":12318.514,"text":"二、審查114年度"},{"start":12345.367,"end":12347.348,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":12366.698,"end":12393.236,"text":"因為你來這邊也跟我說當然你跟捷運公司也說你們建議的方案就是一個整合性整合性的一個對耗資系統整合性的一個發包策略它的簡單的意思就是說假設是西門子或者亞斯通都不管哪一家你不是光做這個喔不是光是集結新車裝這個而已喔那未來我還有機場綠潔延伸線喔我還有龜山的中線喔"},{"start":12397.359,"end":12424.097,"text":"但是我問採購我問行政院工程會他說可以這樣搞啊你還講說未來還有邱文華委員那邊在巴德大西亞我們10年以後發包也是你新門子的你敢講我不敢講我說真的如果這種叫做整合是不行的我是拜託局長因為現在的綠色捷運延伸線我特別要提醒當時在鄭市長時代發包的時候已經把延伸線作為後續擴充"},{"start":12426.218,"end":12428.36,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":12442.853,"end":12443.373,"text":"adequ.謝謝委員"},{"start":12472.521,"end":12473.482,"text":"謝謝主席,陽泉發言,邀請部長。"},{"start":12497.645,"end":12517.614,"text":"部長好,本席要跟你討論外送平台這個議題,因為這個牽扯到14多萬將近15萬的外送員的一個權益,也包括了十幾萬的店家的一個權益,跟包括了全台灣所有消費者的一個權益。"},{"start":12519.415,"end":12541.784,"text":"因為原本在這個月12月19號公平會就已經說要發佈準博的答案但是突然間又因為這個不知道什麼原因但是有人高度質疑是因為現在公平會的委員要做審議人事案來卡這個外送平台"},{"start":12542.324,"end":12545.005,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算"},{"start":12565.652,"end":12568.193,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。��"},{"start":12590.942,"end":12606.478,"text":"你的立場呢?交通部的立場當然合併不合併這個是公平會他們去判斷對就最後但是各自有各自的立場是但對交通部來講我們需要面對的課題其實是整個運費的透明化對外送平台平台對"},{"start":12607.259,"end":12609.541,"text":"所以也謝謝你部長之前你也討論過我們也要求也就是在整個其他國家都有"},{"start":12623.695,"end":12641.681,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":12642.364,"end":12664.435,"text":"報告委員目前我們是針對運費的部分在做討論那我們前一陣子也有在找消費者端然後外送業者然後地方政府然後我們交通部的同仁大家一起來開會大家各方面一起來討論那包含這個外送的這個工會也一起來參加也就是說外送員的工會"},{"start":12664.815,"end":12687.803,"text":"有了進度開始在討論這個我們必須要積極因為不管公平會什麼時候給出這個這個準博的答案但是我們對於將近15萬的外送員以及十幾萬的這些店家未來應該會再增加消費者的生活是必要的所以在這樣三方都需求"},{"start":12688.783,"end":12692.405,"text":"單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":12718.547,"end":12737.601,"text":"多元的聲音聽取當然很重要但是你自己也要有一個定一個時間點也不能完全沒有時間點啊你預估大概什麼時候?多久時間?上一次預告完之後那大概還有一些意見那公共總局陳局長那邊已經親自主持過這一個兩次會議"},{"start":12739.964,"end":12747.981,"text":"請告訴我時間你們大概預告後大家再討論多聽多方的意見之後你們預估多久時間"},{"start":12748.905,"end":12778.725,"text":"elcome 呃根文報告我是不是根文建議這樣子回去我們請這一個陳局長那邊希望他在這個呃一個多月之後能夠把意見做一個這個縮練希望這個修正草案可以再重新做一個這個預告那換句話說如果你說一個多月等於是在農曆年過年我們現在12月嘛等於是在1月底以前可以把你們所收取寶貴的意見去做一個重新的一個預告是不是如此"},{"start":12779.906,"end":12780.366,"text":"二、審查114年度"},{"start":12805.484,"end":12805.884,"text":"三、審查114年度三、審查114年度"},{"start":12820.939,"end":12830.887,"text":"我們也在做,那請問因為之前本席也跟你討論過這個議題,那我們似乎在整個學區的這個周圍數限30的這個工程,可以說是還是這個成效很低。"},{"start":12839.393,"end":12864.617,"text":"現在呢?現在在第一段時間有加油了嗎?我們一直都在推動啦。那我覺得用路人的習慣可能還沒有習慣。我們確實是有這個30公里的這個限制。但是就是說開到學區附近的駕駛人有沒有看到那個牌子。那怎麼辦呢?你既然設一個牌子是讓人家看不到等於是沒有設啊。我們當然有設啦。你有設讓人家看不到啊。你沒有成效啊。你要怎麼改呢?"},{"start":12865.217,"end":12871.062,"text":"是 這個部分我們都有涉那我們也希望駕駛人要注意你們有全面涉請針對本期的議題回答你們目前有涉的達不到幾成這是第一個議題不要迴避問題你必須去盤查你現在還沒有涉的我跟你講六成以上"},{"start":12884.517,"end":12909.218,"text":"對不對?那你要怎麼樣去加強?昨年要怎麼去加強?這才是我們提問重要的希望聽到你的回答我們跟地方政府來加強溝通希望他們可以加速這個進度我們也覺得這個相當重要啦這個部分我們會來跟地方政府溝通第一個是如此第二個你要怎麼樣去宣導這個很重要你設了一個牌子在那邊人家都看不到那等於沒有設對不對我們的目的要保護我們的孩童"},{"start":12913.001,"end":12934.357,"text":"委員您所說的這個宣導真的要多做啦這個孩童非常的重要你沒有保護他的安全怎麼可以如此呢很多駕駛人看到說進入學區但他不知道要減到30以下對或許有時候有這種現象那怎麼辦呢宣導的部分我們要加強你要怎麼宣導你把你的方案給本席目前有做的只有幾層你去盤查清楚交通安全方面的宣導這個非常重要兩個議題你既然有訂這個政策"},{"start":12937.739,"end":12962.047,"text":"學區的速限30你要怎麼樣去落實目前的狀況是多少你要怎麼樣去加強這第一個課題第二個你有設的竟然還是發生問題表示你的設的方案是有討論的精準空間這兩個議題怎麼樣去宣導觀念如果有他自動告訴學區他就會減速了嘛多久時間給本席多久時間給本席那這兩個課題"},{"start":12966.528,"end":12968.471,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":12982.932,"end":13006.839,"text":"有的他一個通道我們正常一個車道3.25米寬但是他就3.25米甚至3.3米可是我們這樣法定是強制旁邊一定要有一個人行道新設的道路對不對你們是不是現在這麼做有沒有有沒有強制有沒有強制這是國土署那邊的規定啦應該是沒有強制喔"},{"start":13007.168,"end":13034.38,"text":"有啦雖然沒有強制但是現在新設的道路幾乎設計都是如此所以我也要我們應該好好去討論因地制宜他如果是快速道路沒有人走那為什麼要設那一條呢現在有很多的陳情案件因為我們當民意代表只要有陳情我們把案件拿出來給你們去討論但是我要強調第一個還是要以行人安全為第一優先"},{"start":13035.06,"end":13046.607,"text":"因為你如果面積不夠,你再把它設一個,那車跟人跟車全部混在一起,那也很危險。所以我們也要因地制宜,好好地來保護我們的行人,對不對?對。對齁,好!好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝楊委員。接下來,有請劉菊汀委員。"},{"start":13065.514,"end":13067.218,"text":"謝謝主席,交通部長、鐵道局長有請。好,陳部長、楊局長。"},{"start":13077.984,"end":13105.147,"text":"部長午安,機捷愛用戶忠誠客人來了謝謝這個本期的選區歸山尤其是林口台地這一塊基本上有非常多跟本期一樣會使用機捷作為通勤工具的這樣一個群眾那其實當初最早機場捷運在設計的時候當初只想做機場快線但因為實在跨越很多也希望這個一條捷運線的縱效能夠達到最高所以跟地方政府都做了一些協調增加了非常多的車站變成它具有"},{"start":13105.928,"end":13131.125,"text":"除了輸運國外旅客之外他也有通勤的一些功能好在當初做了這樣一個設計你看疫情這幾年基本上所有的這種機場快線都受到重大衝擊但還好集結有一定的大眾運輸的一些功能那因為後來推出1200很棒的一個政策讓這個存續跟財政狀況還能夠算是勉強的穩住陣腳那以至於地方現在其實有非常非常多增班的一個需求"},{"start":13131.765,"end":13144.003,"text":"當初其實我們也很高興陶傑公司、市政府跟交通部還有盧秉哲委員的努力之下大家在徵購列車上面已經有很好的一個共識往前走但現在來啦剛剛我們召委員有講現在碰到耗資問題這機場捷運當初是誰招標的"},{"start":13147.687,"end":13169.753,"text":"誰興建誰招標?應該是交通部嘛對不對?很久很久以前交通部做規劃設計交通部來招標對不對?我不瞞部長講本席過去一段時間很常說我是國產化的非常積極的倡議者那很多時候不管是別的業者甚至連我們自己的政府單位都會講說哎呀這個耗資系統的技術門檻非常高即便你這個合作你恐怕台車做錯車廂那也就算了"},{"start":13170.453,"end":13172.494,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。��"},{"start":13194.561,"end":13206.818,"text":"現在這個狀況就是本來的英維斯公司因為被德商西門子收購然後後來舊的列車已經全部停產變成我新的列車只能用新的耗資系統新的耗資系統只能做季節延伸線沒有辦法開A1到A22這幾站的一個狀況那請問這個狀況到底應該怎麼處理?"},{"start":13211.229,"end":13236.141,"text":"我們現在有什麼樣的條件去要求這個耗製廠商西門子去提出合理的改善方案嗎?有辦法嗎?部長請回答或鐵道局長你可以喔?這個如果目前有辦法的話應該不會卡在這裡啦。大概是沒有辦法提出一個比較能夠快速改善的方案。所以其實交通部這邊包含鐵道局也都支持說我們這個耗製提早重製的這個部分我們也都支持。好,提早重製大概花多少錢?"},{"start":13237.383,"end":13243.105,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":13259.83,"end":13270.821,"text":"它其實是相對來講沒有佔這麼多的財政資源那麼我現在想請問就是中央預計這個提供桃園市提供桃桀公司多少的一個支持多少支持對"},{"start":13273.158,"end":13293.587,"text":"我請局長好不好?可以。好,跟委員報告齁,其實機捷系統的重置費用,我們曾經在對價方案裡面有做過估算。現在只是大家對當年估算的這一個重置費用的這個當年估的數字跟現在實際執行有落差。所以我想這個可能我們要再跟台灣市政府來做一些溝通跟協調。"},{"start":13294.167,"end":13299.829,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":13322.156,"end":13323.277,"text":" bicyclist 審查114年度"},{"start":13343.689,"end":13347.15,"text":"總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":13372.202,"end":13386.368,"text":"這是不是請部長回答一下?是,我們可以趕快來找桃園市政府,大家一起來協調這件事情。剛剛盧委員、盧昭偉也有特別指示說整包來談。確實也是應該要整包來談,才談得出結果。那什麼時候來談?"},{"start":13391.041,"end":13393.663,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":13418.803,"end":13445.851,"text":"接下來請鄭天才委員鄭天才鄭天才委員不在接下來有請徐志傑委員發言主席那個剛才我們要開會都遲到這麼久我這邊被抓到了啦"},{"start":13446.869,"end":13447.109,"text":"林所長委員好"},{"start":13475.836,"end":13497.655,"text":"所長好,那個部長你坐著聽就好啦不過這個其實跟整個機場有很大的關係也希望說部長可以了解那個,所長你們做這個系統不錯,其實應該給鼓勵就是說機場管理模擬不用再委外,以前是委外嘛"},{"start":13498.789,"end":13509.459,"text":"ernti可以來直接做評估分析,所以變成都是在專案裡面,它事實上是要用國外發展的商業軟體來做這樣的一個分析。"},{"start":13518.868,"end":13539.215,"text":"我們這個大概就是說我們可以把那個機場空撤的一些整個場域裡面涉及到的一些作業單位那他們在作業上面所會運用到的一些比如說航管他的這個航機的隔離或是說這個跑道他的一個運用還有一些這個"},{"start":13540.435,"end":13563.285,"text":" ﻷ ﻷ"},{"start":13563.405,"end":13577.852,"text":"因為以往變成有時候有時候叫人判斷當然有時候變你要用國外的商業軟體但是我們這個軟體完全是為自己本土的這個目前是陶瓷去量身定做的一套軟體"},{"start":13579.973,"end":13596.926,"text":"所以那個部長這個運輸所所長表現不錯先給他鼓勵一下那這個就是我們淘機可以有做這樣子一個空車模擬分析系統有助於就是不管是飛機起落啦那現場那個航廈或者是跑道之間的問題可以"},{"start":13598.487,"end":13600.729,"text":" bicyC."},{"start":13600.729,"end":13615.461,"text":"讓電腦幫助你可以做得更快、更精準。是,特別是施工,如果有一些施工或一些特殊的這個狀況的時候,它可以去幫你事先模擬一下,告訴你這個施工的位置、齊階,那可能會對這個營運產生什麼樣的影響。"},{"start":13619.804,"end":13633.286,"text":"但是你不要說越來越好事情越多這樣比較不好意思啦。但是我們就是公務員,可以給改善國家的機場真的是好事。所以要拜託那個所長這個高雄機場。"},{"start":13635.168,"end":13663.574,"text":"高雄機場現在準備施工16年,哇,這好長的時間。我是希望說民航局可以把時間縮短,那不管縮不縮短,那可以短多少,這是其一。那其二就是說在這一段時間如果我們沒有去思考所有的各項配套,那包括,上一次部長也有聽到,包括停機坪,包括基地,這個高雄機場其實還有很大的"},{"start":13664.346,"end":13670.448,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":13692.856,"end":13695.679,"text":"adequate to other domestic airports."},{"start":13709.273,"end":13713.134,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":13735.745,"end":13763.47,"text":"因為你所其實做的事情我覺得都還可以值得鼓勵你看你們還做一個分析就是那個北美經過桃園機場往返亞太市場的探討所以你們研究的是台灣可以飛到華盛頓跟波士頓所以長榮也在評估當中那很多的航空公司其實他們都靠自己收集data啦其實也很辛苦啦也不是說馬上那麼準確啦如果從我們整個機場"},{"start":13765.171,"end":13777.167,"text":"大數據來做一個客觀的分析我想就會可以更精確所以你們這一套應該類似我剛剛提到的就是比較大數據比較所有的total的資料做一個整體的分析嗎?"},{"start":13778.711,"end":13806.629,"text":"我們就是已經累積大概十幾年每年都會持續去收集國際上主要的一些機場特別是跟我們有競爭的一些機場包括它的一些機場的服務能量飛航的航班、航空公司、航線我們就是可以每年會從這裡面透過大數據的分析針對一些國內民航發展重要的一些議題我們會去做大數據分析和輸出建議"},{"start":13808.31,"end":13810.372,"text":"另外一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":13828.78,"end":13854.66,"text":"像最近我是在聯合航空打算從高雄飛東京然後從東京再飛美國那我們一直希望可以從有機會從高雄飛美國那當然他們自己也要去蒐集這些data然後去做一個分析那看航空公司也很正常啦了解的生意沒人做嘛但是你如果數據有夠人數有夠我想是他們盡管去背吧"},{"start":13855.805,"end":13867.563,"text":"所以這個部分是不是我們南台灣往返歐美市場的研究、探討可不可以拜託運營所也報告給我們各位,給我們倒三講一下。"},{"start":13868.668,"end":13888.7,"text":"我們把它納入這個我們年度的一個重要議題的一個項目然後我們來透過我們的這個資料庫裡面那有一些資料如果目前還不夠的那我們會加速先優先來做這個購買然後來做一個這樣的一個議題做潛在的市場分析對這個其實"},{"start":13890.681,"end":13913.007,"text":"我現在去了解運輸研究所真的是做的事不錯真的是可以值得鼓勵所以還是一樣先給你拍個手不過還是說給你比較多的工作比較不好意思希望你來還有第三項其實24小時的機場真的對南台灣來講是有必要"},{"start":13915.211,"end":13942.214,"text":"那我們小港機場受限於宵禁所以我們一直困擾著高雄機場的發展那我們其實可以知道全世界各國各大城市都有如果是城市機場有宵禁的話大部分都還會有就是在比較遠附近的地方去選擇一個24小時的機場你可以看到日本"},{"start":13943.572,"end":13952.477,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":13971.138,"end":13998.898,"text":"台北呢你可以看到台北跟桃園的搭配也是一個是有宵禁一個是沒宵禁那高雄呢真的是受限於宵禁的問題所以我們很希望有機會可以有一個南台灣24小時的機場這個部分不知道有沒有機會再拜託運營所再給我們做一個看能不能幫我們找出一塊地啊看哪裡比較適合"},{"start":14000.353,"end":14025.199,"text":"跟委員報告一個機場場址的這個選擇跟評估事實上它涉及到要需要一個比較專案的計畫做研究跟分析我知道早年也曾經探討過台南的七股那個場址是不是適合但是經過研究分析當然它還是有面臨一些問題所以沒有辦法去推動"},{"start":14025.959,"end":14048.605,"text":"所以這個部分我是不是建議說當然我們可以跟民航局跟幹部市政府一起我們來跟他們做技術上面的一個參與提供一些我們專業上面的一些意見供他們一起來做討論我想你們在105年也有做過高雄縣政府那時候請你們做過那當然後來沒有結果"},{"start":14052.466,"end":14069.948,"text":"那如你所說剛才七股你們也有評估過,也沒有結果。當然當時你們的著眼就是我有個點讓你去評估OK不OK這是一個概念。那我現在就是說我從台南、高雄、屏東、南高屏、南台灣一起思考找出一個點。"},{"start":14071.269,"end":14087.268,"text":"而不是說哪個點我評估一下不適合那就算了,哪個點評估不適合就是算了,因為我們有這個需求。所以可不可以運輸研究所辛苦一點就是說我就是要找出一個點可不可以拜託運輸研究所做這樣子的研究,這樣子我就可以到最後有個具體的答案。"},{"start":14088.612,"end":14114.684,"text":"跟委員報告是不是可能先建議請地方政府看看他們有沒有初步認為有這一個適合的這一個地點因為他還是要有一定的來我跟你講上面那個照片是誰市長這是我們地方政府我們陳其邁市長其實都在努力嘛地點是不是合當然就是說"},{"start":14115.928,"end":14124.71,"text":"市長也在這一部分他有極大的需求但是沒有這一部分的專業嘛這部專業就是說你們運輸研究所"},{"start":14125.819,"end":14131.761,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算：一、審查114年度"},{"start":14153.047,"end":14174.483,"text":"就是要拜託你說,你比較專業,用你的角度來看,對一點有適合我們地方政府。我跟你說,你如果找出來,地方政府都配合啦。地方政府都很喜歡。我跟委員報告是這樣,我們來聯繫這個幾個地方的政府,然後看看初步我們共同先盤點有沒有可能的"},{"start":14175.043,"end":14176.644,"text":"當然你如果說整個南台灣都找不到一個適合的"},{"start":14201.223,"end":14204.145,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算。"},{"start":14219.244,"end":14247.585,"text":"因為機場空車模擬分身系統我們機場要改建這段時間要配套需要做科學的調整跟協助第二個我們希望有高雄南台灣到歐美市場的航線那也希望說比照你的桃園機場往返亞太市場的研究可以為我們高雄也做一個這樣子的探討第三個就是我們南台灣24小時的機場這三件事情就拜託所長"},{"start":14249.046,"end":14250.748,"text":"接下來有請鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":14284.437,"end":14298.705,"text":"主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府、江蘇長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士、先生有請交通部陳部長陳部長還有運輸研究所的林所長林所長還有一直在看著我很想上來的鐵道局的楊局長楊局長好部長好、所長好、局長好、部長"},{"start":14306.738,"end":14325.775,"text":"我的題目30年前高鐵印象預測成真20年後高鐵需求為何來請教一下部長我們往下看來那個我覺得您知道我們高鐵幾歲了嗎高鐵20歲沒有啦18歲明年18歲了那我請教一下您因為比較年輕"},{"start":14327.317,"end":14344.916,"text":"十大建設前你還沒出生嘛所以我們差了一個世代我出生的時候後來剛好在弄十大建設這個圖是一小時的台灣的活動範圍您的世代是在1980年你出生的時候那時候十大建設完成的時候我們一小時的生活就已經這麼大了"},{"start":14345.595,"end":14370.97,"text":"到了2007年高鐵通車之後,我們一小時的生活圈的距離就過它了。你覺得我們台灣有在進步吧?很好,這是我從1992年的高鐵計畫書拿下來的。好,那麼請問所長跟局長,你們有沒有參與高鐵的規劃?所長有沒有?當時我沒有,我已經在應援所,但是我沒有參與那個可行性的規劃。那局長有沒有?我們請局長,下一頁。"},{"start":14372.028,"end":14399.995,"text":"局長我那時候呢今年年初在質詢陳建仁院長的時候我說環島高鐵ICO我的I你認為是怎樣從板橋到新左營對不對一條線是不是這樣那現在高鐵有沒有到南港了有嘛未來會不會到宜蘭會那南部呢是往東會到屏東所以高鐵從南北向他分別南北端分別延伸變成一個C是不是這樣那你認為我的O是什麼意思"},{"start":14401.718,"end":14429.217,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算。netesle,你參與高鐵規劃的那時候應該你還很年輕,已經是在幾年前?1992年,那時候你剛畢業進入工部門。是的。所以已經距離現在幾年了?超過32年了。32年了。32年了。那時候你沒有遇到高鐵會環島?還沒有。還沒有,好啦往下看,部長你來看。好。"},{"start":14430.72,"end":14451.039,"text":"那你知道發生什麼事嗎?最近高鐵尖峰事後是潑水之亂還是怎樣?自由座之亂是哪一個?部長知道這件事嗎?知道什麼原因造成的?高鐵會怎麼樣?他在演你要怎麼改善?你覺得要怎麼改善?以二倉自由座人不能戴水瓶嗎?不是,什麼原因造成的?"},{"start":14452.358,"end":14480.388,"text":"局長告訴部長為什麼會產生這個情況下一頁對就是我們目前臺灣的運量啊高鐵的運量已經不能滿足臺灣民眾經貨公司的需求對不對那怎麼辦高鐵怎麼解下一頁部長你覺得呢目前我們有購車的計畫希望能夠提升運量提升運量請問局長你告訴部長如果說高鐵增購了12組列車未來他預估每天的運量一天要幾萬人次"},{"start":14481.931,"end":14490.084,"text":"跟委員報告因為現在是34組如果增購12組應該我們運能可以提升1%左右那大概是到多少?"},{"start":14492.05,"end":14505.7,"text":"目前的運能大概我們最高最高可以達到每日大概現在已經超過20萬了20萬了今年民國幾年113年超過20萬好那我請教一下局長這個就是81年1992年高鐵計劃裡面說預期到2011年每日就會達到78萬人次高鐵到那時候會負擔四分之一會達到19萬人次請你告訴我在"},{"start":14519.651,"end":14523.396,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算"},{"start":14539.815,"end":14540.195,"text":" bicylson Hsu"},{"start":14560.799,"end":14567.109,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":14574.089,"end":14588.982,"text":"我們在採改案的時候曾經做過評估,也就是說高鐵在未來的20年後特許期滿的時候應該會達到我印象中是28還是30左右。30萬,現在是20萬嘛。30萬是幾年後?20年後?不是20年後,大概30年後。"},{"start":14597.065,"end":14625.938,"text":"三十年後高鐵會到達30萬。好,到那時候是不是高鐵就會環島了?部長你敢不敢這樣去判斷?部長,最後時間。我覺得有它的機率啦。有它的可能性。對。所以要預作準備。對。對不對?對。所以現在我們在地方上對於高鐵的延伸它其實不是變成I變成C,它要變成O。但是最後這個O的東部要怎麼連?什麼時候連?其實我們有個醞釀的評估。這個責任你要交給誰?是不是交給所長要去評估?"},{"start":14627.577,"end":14653.612,"text":"所長,你有沒有被賦予這個責任要去評估?運研所?目前還沒有目前還沒有,你看部長,這就是問題了我很佩服在30年前,我們那時候的交通先進有這個遠見在楊局長剛進入工部門的時候,他們就豪氣萬千地提出了一個當民國100年高鐵一日的運量有20萬人次,雖然過了又過了10年才達成"},{"start":14654.713,"end":14668.692,"text":"但是你現在評估20年後30年後高鐵的運次是每天要到達30萬次當那時候我們高鐵的軌道列車的主數絕對不是現在的規模對不對那有沒有開始預作規劃了"},{"start":14669.946,"end":14697.214,"text":"部長你可不可以給本席現在最後一頁您今天提醒我就覺得有需要做啦就是未來30年台灣的整體的軌道的規劃是長什麼樣的面貌那未來的運量是長什麼樣的面貌我覺得現在應該要開始做規劃是因為有30年前包括楊局長在內他們做了這個規劃今天我們台灣的民眾才能享受這樣的高鐵運輸對不對所以你的任內你必須為30年後20年後的台灣民眾預作設想你同意嗎"},{"start":14698.675,"end":14719.725,"text":"您是最年輕的部會首長你有這個義務我們不見得能夠那時候都退休不知道什麼時候了你有這個義務當你退休的時候你可以很驕傲的說30年前你當交通部長的時候你已經要求做這個規劃而且逐步在實現了好不好最後一點點小小的拜託因為我每次看交通部的規劃你們都有一個財務評估"},{"start":14721.306,"end":14737.875,"text":"那個財務評估其實現在來看局長你告訴部長現在高鐵的情況是當時你們規劃的財務評估的實況嗎是嗎有沒有落差有沒有預期高鐵現在有大部分的資金是來自政府有沒有當時規劃不是這樣是的"},{"start":14738.835,"end":14753.195,"text":"所以所以我要告訴你在30年前我們規劃高鐵之後想像的是BOT想像的是政府的財務能力有限所以我們都用BOT的概念去思考說移到民間來儲值政府儲值很少相對少但是現在呢高鐵告訴我們"},{"start":14754.497,"end":14777.897,"text":"政府不能夠去輕估我們自己籌辦基礎建設的能力但是我這裡不是叫我們編列預算我覺得您好好的跟金管會的彭主委討論您好好的跟財政部長討論好好的跟國發會的主委討論現在台灣的油資單單是保險的部會國人的超額儲蓄在我們的保單就超過35兆"},{"start":14779.258,"end":14786.261,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於"},{"start":14805.169,"end":14831.247,"text":"用運用民間的方式用資本金融的槓桿的方式讓民間的資金進來為未來台灣的環島高鐵做努力最後這個部分我把它拿掉您可不可以就財務的部分特別在你們的評估當中請運研所就財務的報告擺脫過去所謂的財務那樣的一個能夠怎麼樣自我負擔嘛你們都是用營運能夠滿足嘛現在高鐵打平了沒"},{"start":14832.622,"end":14850.097,"text":"打平了沒有?比你們預期的是早還是晚?打平了,有賺錢。早,那是因為政府資金注入嘛。現在政府不用注入那麼多,現在民間油資很多。如果你們現在開始籌備,現在這些資金導入10年20年的長期建設,我告訴你,現在買10年美債的都很後悔啦。"},{"start":14851.087,"end":14875.341,"text":"為什麼?你買美的美在幫美國做建設啊但是你要買什麼?買臺灣臺灣的公債部長你知道嗎?你可以發行二類公債你知道嗎?是你可以回去評估一下?所長你會告訴我們部長什麼是二類公債?有發行鐵道具是規劃二類公債嗎?我們有發行一類公債一類公債嘛對不對?有發行一類公債賣的怎麼樣?支持我們相關的建設目前一類公債你們發行多少?"},{"start":14879.335,"end":14906.276,"text":"一、二、五兆還是一、二、五億?你們是一、二、五億啦沒有啦沒有啦應該有一兩百億啦兩百億左右兩百億我覺得至少呢你可以在後面再加個兩個零都沒有問題臺灣目前的能力是負擔得起的兩百億加兩個零是多少?兩兆而已啊才兩兆啊臺灣目前的超額需求在保證的部分就三十四兆您好好思考一下部長可以同意嗎?會不會給一個評估什麼時候可以給本席"},{"start":14907.285,"end":14909.366,"text":"三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度"},{"start":14934.5,"end":14936.082,"text":"三、審查114年度三、審查114年度三、審查114年度"},{"start":14957.506,"end":14967.874,"text":"接下來有請葉元芝委員 葉元芝 葉元芝委員不在鄭正前委員 鄭正前 鄭正前委員不在"},{"start":14971.94,"end":14998.493,"text":"好,我們今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢做以下決議一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員黃建豪所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報第三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未答覆者部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆第四、114年"},{"start":15001.014,"end":15023.025,"text":"國家運輸安全調查委員會交通部運燃所、鐵道局及所屬單位預算及鐵道發展基金非營業預算等四項預算案均令則其進行處理。委員預算提案的時間定於12月25號。聖誕節嗎?"},{"start":15027.918,"end":15051.29,"text":"十二月二十五號禮拜三中午十二點截止收件今天這個可以講開會倒吃甘蔗一剛開始很緊張八、九點的時候氣氛很緊張正好交通委員會跟內政委員會同一排在天堂路這邊所以大家有時候走不進來不過我是很難得晚開會後十分鐘"},{"start":15052.489,"end":15053.871,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":15073.807,"end":15080.33,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}