{"error":false,"id":["163720"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163720,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163720","日期":"2025-08-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,35,19,22,23,36,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、交通、司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,35,19,22,23,36,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","外交及國防委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","司法及法制委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、交通、司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-08-28T10:51:22+08:00","結束時間":"2025-08-28T10:57:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0de38d3dd43d9d74542c7d326e6f8d0fd1055ccb7a5c893e982cf155f147233f2eac597dcc0aeba65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:51:22 - 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謝謝主席 我們有請主計長還有勞動部部長主計長還有我們的紅部長薇薇委員好"},{"start":39.068,"end":62.239,"text":"主委長好主委長我請教你好勞動部他編了一筆預算呢是923萬2000元是在勞動力發展業務裡面這一筆預算這個立法院預算中心呢他已經講了就是他是要挹注就業安定基金請問他這樣的編列可以嗎你有看到這筆預算是這樣編列嗎"},{"start":67.276,"end":72.76,"text":"你不知道 主席長不知道你都沒有在看各部會的這一些他編進來的預算"},{"start":75.353,"end":99.956,"text":"妳沒有在看 那誰在看 誰在把關我們是每一個同仁都有在看然後每一個都有注意他各自部會的一個項目那這個部分挹注他一個基金他裡面也會寫啦他沒有寫但是這一個可能是他的一個那個篇幅沒有那麼多所以就寫得沒有那麼詳細他沒有寫 報告裡面隻字未提可以這樣子嗎"},{"start":101.457,"end":129.65,"text":"我先問主席長 總統部長主席長可以這樣嗎如果有部會是這樣子的你允許嗎一般是這樣原則上我們說明欄裡面會加寫但是如果說有時候項目太多這個部在以後在審查的時候再補充書面資料這個是你們的疏失喔你們根本沒有提出來是由這個立法院的預算中心很盡責的指出來喔那接下來我要問這個部長喔你這一筆預算是不是就是要補就業安定基金"},{"start":130.424,"end":155.842,"text":"跟委員說明這筆預算的使用是這樣其實用途上面是去補地方的就業中心的人事費但是它是由公務預算補給救安基金救安基金再來支出地方不是補救安基金是補地方的這個就業中心的人事費它是辦你就業保險的人"},{"start":156.983,"end":177.78,"text":"妳是直接供預算就下到地方的就業中心不是嗎 妳要進到救安基金然後救安基金做這樣的支出所以妳這個行政程序上面有很大的問題為什麼報告裡面不敢提這麼正當的事情為什麼提都不提這個程序有問題第二個我要問妳就是"},{"start":179.47,"end":200.262,"text":"現在的救安基金的裁員事實上是非常的充裕的都還有盈餘按照預算法第79條裡面的第一項第三款裡面所辦的這個事業因重大事故經費超過法定預算時才可以去追加預算"},{"start":201.783,"end":220.155,"text":"請問你現在為什麼多加了這筆900多萬是有符合這樣的情況嗎是有發生什麼重大的情況重大的變故導致無法因應嗎有嗎跟委員說明因為其實這筆錢其實它的來源源頭就是來自於公務預算過去就是這樣過去就是來自公務預算"},{"start":221.557,"end":237.376,"text":"我就是说就是来自于公务预算但是因为现在它被删减了以后变成是我们在地方就业中心的人力欲缺不补有被删减吗有在委员会有删减你吗后来是被删减的后来是谁删减表决上面是被删减的"},{"start":237.836,"end":253.312,"text":"沒有啊 我們在委員會沒有刪減這筆錢這個900多萬是刪減的是通案刪減的可是這個讓我們在就業中心的人力變成要欲缺不補那現在比方面對關稅的問題可能會到我們這個地方就業中心的人"},{"start":253.892,"end":279.077,"text":"這一個部分你們程序上面我覺得就是有問題喔你們沒有直接講你的用處而且沒有直接講算你講到了這個 這個主計長你知道以後你在監督各部會他提預算的時候明明是要編給基金的這個按照規定你就是要講清楚而且應該要把基金的相關預算也要送上來這個勞動部通通都沒有做到接下來我要問你剛剛提到的就是紓困的部分喔"},{"start":279.737,"end":308.757,"text":"現在關稅我們看到這個人數是暴增一倍啊從1955人現在是3934暴增了一倍上個禮拜我有要求勞動部你要因應這個去延應你的紓困貸款我認為你應該要提早啟動年底的紓困貸款可以提早啟動第二個金額增加所以追加預算如果真的是要用在勞工身上的我們都同意但是不要魚目混珠不要說要編給基金的又不敢寫"},{"start":309.677,"end":325.762,"text":"基金是用在勞工身上的這一個 部長你可以這個要幫助勞工的你可以做到嗎紓困貸款的部分可不可以提早提到對於關稅的衝擊對勞工我們現在都在加碼都在把幫助跟支持的力道給強化紓困貸款可不可以提早我覺得各種方案我們可以跟委員這邊來討論"},{"start":331.704,"end":338.523,"text":"把那個報告給我好 謝謝帶款的這個部分應該要提早讓勞工可以與御來因應好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":658,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時51分）謝謝主席。有請主計長及勞動部部長。"],["主席：請主計長及洪部長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：主計長好。主計長，我請教你，勞動部在勞動力發展業務裡面編了一筆預算923萬2,000元，針對這一筆預算，立法院預算中心已經講了，這是要挹注就業安定基金，請問他們這樣編列可以嗎？你有看到這筆預算是這樣編列嗎？你不知道？主計長不知道？你都沒有在看各部會編進來的預算？如果你沒有在看，那誰在看？誰在把關？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們是每一個同仁都有在看，然後每一個都有注意各自部會的項目，這個部分挹注到基金，其實裡面也會寫，只是說……"],["王委員育敏：他沒有寫。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這部分可能是因為篇幅沒有那麼多，所以就沒有寫得那麼詳細。"],["王委員育敏：他沒有寫，報告裡面隻字未提，可以這樣子嗎？我先問主計長，可以這樣嗎？如果有部會是這樣子的做法，你允許嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上說明欄裡面會加寫，但是有時候如果項目太多，那就會以後在審查的時候再補充書面資料。"],["王委員育敏：這個是你們的疏失，你們根本沒有提出來，而是由立法院預算中心很盡責的指出來。","接下來我要問部長，這一筆預算是不是就是要補就業安定基金？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，這筆預算的使用是這樣，其實……"],["王委員育敏：是或不是？我的時間很有限，你先回答，我還有別的問題。"],["洪部長申翰：用途上面是去補地方就業中心的人事費，但是它是由公務預算補給就安基金，就安基金再來支出地方……"],["王委員育敏：那你就是要給就安基金嘛，那為什麼你的報告裡面沒有提呢？"],["洪部長申翰：不是補就安基金，而是補地方就業中心的人事費，它是辦理就業保險的人力……"],["王委員育敏：那你不是要經過就安基金才要下去嗎？你是直接用公務預算就下到地方的就業中心嗎？不是嘛！你要進到就安基金嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：它是補給就安基金，然後就安基金做這樣的支出，它的用途是就保……"],["王委員育敏：就是這樣子嘛！所以你在行政程序上面有很大的問題，為什麼報告裡面不敢提？這麼正當的事情，為什麼提都不提？所以程序有問題。","第二個我要問你，現在就安基金的財源事實上是非常充裕的，甚至都還有盈餘，按照預算法第七十九條第一項第三款，所辦事業因重大事故經費超過法定預算時，才可以追加預算。請問你現在為什麼多加了這一筆九百多萬的經費？是有符合這樣的情況嗎？是有發生什麼重大的情況、重大的變故，導致無法因應嗎？有嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，因為這筆錢其實它的源頭就是來自於公務預算，過去就是這樣，過去就是來自公務預算。"],["王委員育敏：今年有編啊！"],["洪部長申翰：我的意思是說就是來自於公務預算。"],["王委員育敏：是。"],["洪部長申翰：但是因為現在它被刪減了以後，變成是我們在地方就業中心的人力遇缺不補。"],["王委員育敏：有被刪減嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：有。"],["王委員育敏：在委員會有刪減嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：後來是被刪減的。"],["王委員育敏：後來是誰刪減？"],["洪部長申翰：表決上面是被刪減的。"],["王委員育敏：沒有啊！我們在委員會沒有刪減這筆錢。"],["洪部長申翰：這九百多萬是刪減的，是通案刪減的，可是這會讓我們在就業中心的人力變成要遇缺不補，現在比方要面對關稅的問題，可能到地方就業中心的人會變多。"],["王委員育敏：好，這一個部分我覺得你們程序上面就是有問題，你們沒有直接講你的用處，而且沒有直接講出來，你講到了這個……主計長，以後你在監督各部會提預算的時候，明明是要編給基金的，按照規定就是要講清楚，而且應該要把基金的相關預算也要送上來，這個勞動部統統都沒有做到。","接下來我要問你剛剛提到紓困的部分，現在因為關稅問題，我們看到減班休息人數暴增一倍，從1,955人，現在是3,934，暴增了一倍，上個禮拜我有要求勞動部要因應這個問題去研議紓困貸款，我認為你應該要提早啟動，年底的紓困貸款可以提早啟動。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["王委員育敏：第二個，金額增加。所以追加預算如果真的是要用在勞工身上的，我們都同意，但是不要魚目混珠，不要是要編給基金的又不敢寫，這個部分……"],["洪部長申翰：基金是用在勞工身上的。"],["王委員育敏：部長，你可以……"],["主席：好，王委員，時間到了。"],["王委員育敏：這個要幫助勞工的，你可以做到嗎？紓困貸款的部分可不可以提早啟動？"],["洪部長申翰：對於關稅的衝擊，針對勞工的我們現在都在加碼，都在幫助跟支持的力道給強化。"],["王委員育敏：紓困貸款可不可以提早？"],["主席：王委員，把報告給你就好了，好不好？"],["王委員育敏：紓困貸款可不可以提早？"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得各種方案我們可以跟委員討論。"],["王委員育敏：好，把報告給我，我要求紓困貸款的部分應該要提早，讓勞工可以有餘裕來因應，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位請張宏陸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,35,19,22,23,36,26-1","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","郭國文","林思銘","李昆澤","李柏毅","黃國昌","柯志恩","萬美玲","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","張智倫","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","吳沛憶","張啓楷","王育敏","張宏陸","劉書彬","王世堅","黃秀芳","林俊憲","李坤城","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","鄭天財Sra 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