{"error":false,"id":["163722"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163722,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163722","日期":"2025-08-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,35,19,22,23,36,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、交通、司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,35,19,22,23,36,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","外交及國防委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","司法及法制委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、交通、司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-08-28T10:57:08+08:00","結束時間":"2025-08-28T11:01:54+08:00","影片長度":"00:04:46","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0de38d3dd43d9d743710354bc4c72e49d1055ccb7a5c893e73be9beff75c7d81d7dcd980b23cef445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:57:08 - 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當然我們在施政上以及各項業務推動上有這樣的一個實際需求對啦 政府沒有錢就不能辦事我今天請三個部會來那個劉部長"},{"start":62.099,"end":89.249,"text":"我們的一直在講 危老危老的改建這個是政府積極推動的政策而且我們跟人民講你危老你就是不需要透過建商或什麼自己可以來做嘛 對不對但我不知道部長知不知道現在很多危老的案子銀行都不貸款有聽說過這樣的例子我們正在想辦法要看如何解決那今天都在這啊能不能解決"},{"start":92.758,"end":118.597,"text":"來 金管會財政部你們可以回答社保委員我們現在金管會主政的是銀行法72之2條的上限的問題我們在那個72之2的時候我們把危老都更已經排除在外面了那時候我們還有修法喔我們內政委員 立法院都有修法喔對不對這已經排除了喔你不要跟我講法條我時間有限嘛你們要怎麼解決嘛"},{"start":119.949,"end":147.072,"text":"我們這邊銀行法的部分我們這邊沒有這個障礙那是其他可能信用管制的問題然後呢所以你無法解決是不是我在我金管會主政的範圍的這部分我們已經針對這部分已經把他排除那我問你你所有的銀行所有的不按照政府的法令去做你束手無策嗎不是這是還有其他的主管機關在財政部你覺得呢"},{"start":148.513,"end":172.045,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛金管會已經說了就是銀行法那個限制百分之三十的限制其實已經排除危老跟都更那這個部分呢我想各個銀行他就可以根據金管會的這樣的一個放寬的一個應該就可以去做但沒有做啊我想這個部分所謂沒有做的話是不是可以讓我們了解一下他的個案情況這不是個案你剛剛剛剛劉部長也講了這已經變通案了不是個案"},{"start":178.362,"end":197.756,"text":"欸 人民 你政府一直鼓勵人家 結果人家做了你政府又不支持 你這是騙人民欸我想政府是一致性的我跟你講 我不知道 你知不知道像危老這個 他們是不用透過建商欸結果咧 你們銀行百般找麻煩 不貸款給人家"},{"start":201.783,"end":212.733,"text":"不然還甚至有的人有的銀行說你去找建商來跟你一起蓋這是什麼道理啊你們今天三個都在這邊沒有辦法解決嗎"},{"start":214.501,"end":238.06,"text":"報告委員您這關心的問題我們在尋求解決之道第一個就是自主都更然後再來就看能不能通過一個都更會然後盡量排除由建商來主導那這個部分我們跟財政還有金管單位都在處理看怎麼樣處理會比較好部長我跟你講人家危老的人家民眾自己蓋的現在銀行都借不到錢"},{"start":238.74,"end":252.594,"text":"我們有了解這個狀況我跟你講如果你們連這個都沒有辦法解決我跟你講那你們的追加預算也不用給你們啊因為給你們錢你們不會處理事情啊給你們錢你們不處理事情啊那幹嘛給你們錢"},{"start":253.925,"end":280.718,"text":"那你們自己沒錢就說沒有辦法做事我們追加預算是法定或是我們在共大盛事上面要追加回來的部長 打房我們都很支持但這個危老 我一直在強調我現在只有講危老喔我只要你們解決這個問題喔再給我們一點時間來溝通你們如果沒有辦法解決你們沒有辦法解決我們也不用給你們追加減預算啦因為你們不會做事啦"},{"start":282.967,"end":283.328,"text":"好 謝謝張委員的質詢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":707,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時57分）請內政部、金管會、財政部。"],["主席：內政部劉部長、金管會彭主委，還有財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：各位好。我們今天的追加減預算也是政府沒有錢不能辦事，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們在施政上以及各項業務推動上有這樣一個實際需求。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦！政府沒有錢就不能辦事。我今天請三個部會，劉部長，我們一直在講危老的改建，這個是政府積極推動的政策。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["張委員宏陸：而且我們跟人民講，危老就是不需要透過建商或什麼，自己可以來做，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：但我不知道部長知不知道，現在很多危老案子，銀行都不貸款。"],["劉部長世芳：有聽說過這樣的例子，我們正在想辦法看如何解決。"],["張委員宏陸：今天都在這，能不能解決？來，金管會、財政部，你們可以回答。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，報告委員，現在我們金管會主政的是銀行法第七十二條之二上限的問題，我們在第七十二條之二已經把危老、都更排除在外面了。"],["張委員宏陸：那時候我們還有修法，我們立法院內政委員會都有修法喔！對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["張委員宏陸：這已經排除了。你不要跟我講法條，我時間有限嘛！你要怎麼解決嘛？"],["彭主任委員金隆：針對銀行法的部分，我們這邊是沒有這個障礙，那是其他可能信用管制的問題。"],["張委員宏陸：然後呢？所以你無法解決是不是？"],["彭主任委員金隆：在我金管會主政範圍這部分，我們已經針對這部分把它排除。"],["張委員宏陸：那我問你，所有銀行不按照政府的法令去做，你束手無策嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，這是還有其他主管機關在……"],["張委員宏陸：財政部，你覺得呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，剛剛金管會已經說了，銀行法那個百分之三十的限制其實已經排除危老跟都更，這個部分我想銀行就可以根據金管會這樣的放寬，應該就可以去做。"],["張委員宏陸：但是沒有做啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：關於這個部分，所謂沒有做的話，是不是可以讓我們了解一下個案的情況？"],["張委員宏陸：不，這不是個案，剛剛劉部長也講了，這已經變通案，不是個案了！你們政府一直鼓勵人家，結果人家做了，政府又不支持，你們這是在騙人民欸！"],["莊部長翠雲：我想政府的施政是有一致性的。"],["張委員宏陸：我不清楚你知不知道像危老這部分是不用透過建商，結果你們銀行百般找麻煩，不貸款給人家，甚至有的銀行還說：「你去找建商來跟你一起蓋」，這是什麼道理啊！今天你們三個單位都在這邊，難道沒有辦法解決嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，對於您關心的這個問題，我們在尋求解決之道，第一個就是自主都更，再來就看能不能通過一個都更會，然後儘量排除由建商來主導，關於這個部分，我們跟財政還有金管單位都在處理，就是看怎麼樣處理會比較好。"],["張委員宏陸：部長，我跟你講，人家危老的、民眾自己蓋的房子，現在去銀行都借不到錢，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們有了解到這個狀況。"],["張委員宏陸：我跟你講，如果你們連這個都沒有辦法解決，那你們的追加預算也不用給你們，因為即使給你們錢，你們也不會處理事情啊！給你們錢，你們不處理事情，那幹嘛給你們錢？你們說自己沒錢所以沒有辦法做事，然後你們這樣子……"],["劉部長世芳：張委員，我想你言重了，我們的追加預算是法定或是我們在重大政事上面要追加回來的。"],["張委員宏陸：部長，對打房我們都很支持，但是我一再強調，我現在只有講危老，我只要你們解決這個問題喔！"],["劉部長世芳：再給我們一點時間來溝通，我們會在短暫的時間內提出來。"],["張委員宏陸：我跟你講，如果你們沒有辦法解決，我們也不用給你們追加預算，因為你們不會做事啊！"],["主席：好，謝謝張委員的質詢。","現在請劉書彬委員質詢。","等劉委員質詢完畢我們休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,35,19,22,23,36,26-1","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","郭國文","林思銘","李昆澤","李柏毅","黃國昌","柯志恩","萬美玲","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","張智倫","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","吳沛憶","張啓楷","王育敏","張宏陸","劉書彬","王世堅","黃秀芳","林俊憲","李坤城","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","鄭天財Sra 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