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二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行"},{"start":1550.34,"end":1551.521,"text":"是否有當．二、同意權之行使事項．二、同意權之行使"},{"start":1793.837,"end":1799.185,"text":"報言會現在我們繼續開會進行同意權之行使事項請宣讀全委會審查報告"},{"start":1801.896,"end":1826.446,"text":"總統咨則依據《憲法增修條文》第6條第二項規定提名周鴻憲為考試院第十四屆院長徐書強為考試院第十四屆副院長邱偉燕、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗玲、黃東毅、伊萬娜威七位為考試院第十四屆考試委員自行同意案本案經提報北院第11屆第一會期第17次會議決定將取原位委員會選查"},{"start":1831.363,"end":1850.189,"text":"本院全院委員會於11月22日下午舉行公定會由院長韓國瑜、副院長張啟臣分別擔任主席各黨團推薦之學者、專家應邀出席藉由紀俊成教授等發表意見再由本院各黨團推派組成之審查小組詢問"},{"start":1851.673,"end":1862.137,"text":"既有吳春成委員等口頭詢問．並有與會學者參加綜合答覆．以上公定會發言紀錄．經會應成冊．含送本院權力委員審查時參考。"},{"start":1864.505,"end":1883.662,"text":"全院委員會．審查會．於11月26日．上午審查．考試院院長．被提名人周鴻憲．由副院長江啟臣擔任主席．藉由沈薄洋委員等．口頭詢問．均由被提名人．口頭答覆。11月26日．下午審查．考試院副院長．被提名人許書祥．"},{"start":1884.443,"end":1900.306,"text":"由副院長江啟臣擔任主席．藉由楊瓊英委員等．口頭詢問．均由被提名人．口頭答覆．11月29日．下午分別審查．考試委員．被提名人．邱維彥．家機．由副院長江啟臣擔任主席．"},{"start":1901.482,"end":1922.183,"text":"針對被提名人邱偉諺均審查．藉由蘇清泉委員等．口頭詢問．均由被提名人口頭答覆．針對被提名人鄧家基之審查．藉由楊秋英委員等．口頭詢問．均由被提名人口頭答覆．12月3日．分別審查可是委員．被提名人．王秀紅、呂秋慧、戈麗玲．"},{"start":1922.924,"end":1948.485,"text":"由院長韓國瑜擔任主席﹐針對被提名人王秀紅之審查﹐即由盧志強委員等﹐口頭詢問﹐均由被提名人﹐口頭答覆﹐針對被提名人呂秋慧之審查﹐即由林益君委員等﹐口頭詢問﹐均由被提名人﹐口頭答覆﹐針對被提名人柯麗玲之審查﹐即由林月琴委員等﹐口頭詢問﹐均由被提名人﹐口頭答覆。"},{"start":1950.173,"end":1973.337,"text":"12月6日﹐項目分別審查考試委員﹐被提名人黃東毅﹐伊萬納威﹐由副院長江啟臣擔任主席﹐針對被提名人黃東毅之審查﹐藉由楊瓊英委員等口頭詢問﹐均有被提名人口頭答覆﹐針對被提名人伊萬納威之審查﹐藉由楊瓊英委員等口頭詢問﹐均有被提名人口頭答覆﹐"},{"start":1973.897,"end":1991.759,"text":"全院委員會於12月6日審查文據原決議提報院會以記名投票表決宣讀完畢報院會現在針對考試院院長、副院長及考試委員被提名人同意權之行使進行記名投票表決依黨團協商結論"},{"start":1993.274,"end":2016.201,"text":"由各黨團推派一位．擔任投開票監察員．有關同意權之相關事務工作．均循例辦理．設置圈票處4個．票軌2個．報院會在投票表決之前．做以下兩點重要宣告一、投開票的監察員．由國民黨團推派翁曉琳委員．擔任"},{"start":2017.401,"end":2026.655,"text":"民進黨團推派李昆成委員擔任臺灣民眾黨團推派麥玉珍委員擔任二、投票截止時間為上午11點"},{"start":2029.059,"end":2047.037,"text":"再說一遍．投票截止時間為上午11點．如全體委員在上午11點之前已投票完畢．我們則提前開票．現在．請工作人員布置投票所．並請投開票監察員執行監察職務．"},{"start":2306.008,"end":2326.174,"text":"報告院會,我們依協商結論﹐考試院長、副院長及七位考試委員﹐被提名人,並為一張同意票。另外,為了方便在領票及投票領票的時候,請各位委員分區領票。編號第一號到60號的委員,請至南區領票。編號61號到113號委員,請至北區領票。"},{"start":2335.353,"end":2345.517,"text":"投票的時候兩側發言台各設有一個票軌均可以投入現在請各位委員開始分區領票及投票"},{"start":6020.929,"end":6025.308,"text":"跟院會報告今天我們立法委員陳超明生日陳超明委員今天現場我們掌聲給他"},{"start":8801.192,"end":8808.012,"text":"報告院會,距離投票截止時間上午11點還有3分鐘,尚未投票的委員請趕快投票。"},{"start":8984.141,"end":8998.52,"text":"抱怨會投票截止時間已到請按鈴現在請工作人員佈置開票所"},{"start":9019.622,"end":9035.76,"text":"報告院會向院會報告本日程序委員會輪值召集委員、審發會委員表示今日程序委員會開會時間延後至中午院會休息10分鐘後於紅樓201會議室召開"},{"start":9114.879,"end":9130.644,"text":"現在報告發票報告書立法院行使考試院院長、副院長及考試委員同意權投票表決發票報告書領票委員112人為領票委員1人合計113人中華民國113年12月17日投開票監察員麥玉珍、翁曉琳、李坤誠"},{"start":9150.363,"end":9157.822,"text":"報院會現在開始開票請開起票軌並整理同意權票"},{"start":9730.953,"end":9737.715,"text":"好了嗎?報告院會現在依序進行唱票請唱票"},{"start":9762.298,"end":9784.131,"text":"丁學忠同意權票 周鴻憲不同意丁學忠同意權票 周鴻憲不同意許書祥同意許書祥同意邱文彥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意王秀紅同意"},{"start":9784.851,"end":9801.784,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意劉許廷﹑同意權票"},{"start":9803.072,"end":9830.923,"text":"周鴻憲﹑不同意牛許廷﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書翔﹑同意許書翔﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑不同意柯麗麟﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":9833.044,"end":9842.671,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意王世堅﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":9862.185,"end":9875.132,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意王振旭﹑同意選票"},{"start":9877.087,"end":9903.744,"text":"鍾鴻憲﹑同意王振旭﹑同意權票鍾鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":9904.304,"end":9930.535,"text":"一萬納威﹑同意一萬納威﹑同意王玉敏﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意王玉敏﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意"},{"start":9931.135,"end":9944.865,"text":"李秋慧﹑同意李秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":9945.936,"end":9954.647,"text":"王定宇 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意 許淑祥 同意 邱文彥 同意 鄧家基 同意"},{"start":9963.658,"end":9982.797,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意王美惠﹑同意選票"},{"start":9983.72,"end":9998.295,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意王美惠﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":9998.915,"end":10018.12,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意王逸川﹑同意全票"},{"start":10019.048,"end":10034.67,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意王一川﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意"},{"start":10035.271,"end":10042.896,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":10050.834,"end":10058.396,"text":"王鴻維﹑同意權票 周鴻憲﹑不同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":10069.139,"end":10088.312,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伍麗華﹑同意全票"},{"start":10089.096,"end":10109.39,"text":"周鴻憲ﷺ同意ﷺ吳立華ﷺ同意權票ﷺ周鴻憲ﷺ同意ﷺ許淑祥ﷺ同意ﷺ許淑祥ﷺ同意ﷺ邱文彥ﷺ同意ﷺ邱文彥ﷺ同意ﷺ鄧家基ﷺ同意ﷺ鄧家基ﷺ同意ﷺ王秀宏ﷺ同意ﷺ王秀宏ﷺ同意ﷺ呂秋慧ﷺ同意ﷺ呂秋慧ﷺ同意ﷺ"},{"start":10109.97,"end":10116.421,"text":"柯麗琳﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意江啟臣﹑同意全票"},{"start":10122.987,"end":10151.198,"text":"周鴻憲﹑不同意江啟臣﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑不同意許書翔﹑同意許書翔﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑不同意柯麗麟﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":10151.678,"end":10175.86,"text":"一萬納威﹑同意一萬納威﹑同意何新淳﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意何新淳﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許書翔﹑同意許書翔﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意"},{"start":10176.6,"end":10182.244,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":10190.652,"end":10202.143,"text":"吳佩義同意權票 周鴻憲同意 許淑祥同意 邱文彥同意鄧家基同意 王秀紅同意 呂秋慧同意"},{"start":10212.293,"end":10218.118,"text":"李秋蕙﹑同意柯麗琳﹑同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":10224.745,"end":10232.19,"text":"吳宗憲 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意"},{"start":10242.597,"end":10263.116,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意吳秉瑞﹑同意全票周鴻燮﹑同意"},{"start":10264.461,"end":10290.103,"text":"吳秉瑞 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意柯麗玲 同意黃東益 同意黃東益 同意伊萬納威 同意伊萬納威 同意"},{"start":10292.888,"end":10296.055,"text":"吳思瑤﹑同意權票﹑周鴻燮﹑同意"},{"start":10299.577,"end":10325.721,"text":"許淑祥﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意吳春成﹑同意全票"},{"start":10326.587,"end":10352.628,"text":"周鴻憲 同意吳春城 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許書翔 同意許書翔 同意邱文彥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 不同意柯麗玲 不同意黃東益 同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":10354.75,"end":10358.479,"text":"伊萬納威不同意伊萬納威不同意"},{"start":10360.314,"end":10372.317,"text":"吳祁銘同意權票．周鴻憲同意．許淑祥同意．邱文彥同意．鄧家基同意．王秀紅同意．呂秋慧同意．柯麗玲同意．黃東毅同意．"},{"start":10388.321,"end":10389.549,"text":"伊瓦納維（同意"},{"start":10392.66,"end":10407.346,"text":"呂玉琳﹑同意權票 周鴻憲﹑不同意許書翔﹑同意邱文晏﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗琳﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":10422.333,"end":10434.264,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意李坤澄﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":10442.771,"end":10449.899,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意李秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":10458.513,"end":10487.999,"text":"李坤澤 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意李坤澤 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意許淑祥 同意邱文燕 同意邱文燕 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意柯麗玲 同意黃東益 同意黃東益 同意伊萬娜薇 同意"},{"start":10488.539,"end":10517.31,"text":"伊萬奈威﹑同意李彥秀﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意李彥秀﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀宏﹑同意王秀宏﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑不同意柯麗麟﹑不同意"},{"start":10518.05,"end":10518.912,"text":"黃東義﹑同意李博義﹑同意權票"},{"start":10527.614,"end":10555.335,"text":"周鴻燮﹑同意李柏毅﹑同意選票周鴻燮﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文燁﹑同意邱文燁﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意黃東毅﹑同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":10556.215,"end":10557.866,"text":"沈柏洋﹑同意全票"},{"start":10558.584,"end":10586.414,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意沈伯陽﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜威﹑同意伊萬威﹑同意"},{"start":10588.498,"end":10617.08,"text":"選發會 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意選發會 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許書祥 同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗麟 同意柯麗麟 同意黃東益 同意黃東益 同意伊萬那維 同意"},{"start":10617.62,"end":10638.32,"text":"伊萬娜威ﷺ同意ﷺ林月琴ﷺ同意權票ﷺ周鴻憲ﷺ同意ﷺ林月琴ﷺ同意權票ﷺ周鴻憲ﷺ同意ﷺ許書翔ﷺ同意ﷺ許書翔ﷺ同意ﷺ邱文彥ﷺ同意ﷺ邱文彥ﷺ同意ﷺ鄧家基ﷺ同意ﷺ鄧家基ﷺ同意ﷺ王秀宏ﷺ同意ﷺ王秀宏ﷺ同意ﷺ"},{"start":10639.08,"end":10644.485,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意克麗琳﹑同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":10651.994,"end":10660.804,"text":"林佩祥同意權票．周鴻憲不同意．許淑祥同意．邱文彥同意．鄧家基同意．王秀紅同意．"},{"start":10672.357,"end":10678.247,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬娜威﹑同意"},{"start":10686.035,"end":10695.538,"text":"凌怡瑾同意權票．周鴻憲同意．許淑祥同意．邱文彥同意．鄧家基同意．王秀紅同意．呂修慧同意．"},{"start":10708.542,"end":10714.813,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬娜威﹑同意林黛樺﹑同意選票"},{"start":10722.341,"end":10747.215,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意林旦化﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許初祥﹑同意許初祥﹑同意邱文燕﹑同意邱文燕﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":10749.116,"end":10757.84,"text":"伊萬奈威﹑同意林俊憲﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋蕙﹑同意"},{"start":10776.167,"end":10785.876,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意林思敏﹑同意權票 周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意"},{"start":10800.683,"end":10811.214,"text":"邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意"},{"start":10824.417,"end":10837.067,"text":"林倩琦 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書翔 同意邱文燕 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 不同意"},{"start":10853.019,"end":10877.831,"text":"黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意林國成﹑同意選票周鴻憲﹑同意林國成﹑同意選票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意"},{"start":10878.376,"end":10904.631,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑不同意伊萬娜薇﹑不同意林淑芬﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意林淑芬﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意"},{"start":10905.205,"end":10914.973,"text":"邱文燕﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意"},{"start":10927.028,"end":10939.356,"text":"林楚英 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意徐淑祥 同意邱文燕 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意"},{"start":10952.277,"end":10968.974,"text":"黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意林德福﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑不同意林德福﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意"},{"start":10969.665,"end":10997.187,"text":"許淑祥﹑同意丘文彥﹑同意丘文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東義﹑同意黃東義﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意林益君﹑同意選票周鴻憲﹑同意"},{"start":10998.362,"end":11027.765,"text":"李懿君同意權票 周鴻憲同意許淑祥同意許淑祥同意邱文彥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意呂秋慧同意柯麗玲不同意柯麗玲不同意黃東益同意黃東益同意伊萬娜薇不同意伊萬娜薇不同意"},{"start":11029.011,"end":11043.26,"text":"邱志偉 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":11056.974,"end":11064.679,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意 伊萬納威﹑同意邱振興﹑同意全票 周鴻燮﹑不同意"},{"start":11088.374,"end":11091.095,"text":"你要不要從這一張從頭唸?你剛剛唸車車機中,現在怎麼唸?"},{"start":11124.634,"end":11146.09,"text":"邱政軍同意權票 周鴻憲不同意許書祥同意 許書祥同意邱文彥同意 邱文彥同意鄧家基同意 鄧家基同意王秀紅同意 王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意 呂秋慧同意"},{"start":11146.752,"end":11159.435,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意邱奕瑩﹑同意全票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意"},{"start":11173.403,"end":11194.998,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意柯志恩﹑同意權票"},{"start":11196.01,"end":11202.87,"text":"周鴻憲﹑不同意克之恩﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑不同意許初祥﹑同意"},{"start":11203.45,"end":11230.103,"text":"許淑祥﹑同意丘文彥﹑同意丘文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃冬毅﹑同意黃冬毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意柯建銘﹑同意權票"},{"start":11231.044,"end":11248.252,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意柯建銘﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意"},{"start":11249.02,"end":11259.245,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意洪孟凱﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意"},{"start":11276.4,"end":11295.223,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":11296.38,"end":11307.644,"text":"范雲 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意"},{"start":11322.499,"end":11349.134,"text":"黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意許巧欣﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許巧欣﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意"},{"start":11349.833,"end":11360.562,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意徐欣盈﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑不同意許書翔﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意"},{"start":11378.607,"end":11400.871,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意徐富奎﹑同意權票"},{"start":11401.673,"end":11422.069,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意許富奎﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":11422.625,"end":11429.79,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意圖權吉﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意"},{"start":11447.293,"end":11464.526,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":11467.386,"end":11479.751,"text":"翁曉琳 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 不同意"},{"start":11494.904,"end":11522.265,"text":"黃東義﹑同意黃東義﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意馬文軍﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意馬文軍﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意"},{"start":11522.885,"end":11533.748,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意高金素梅﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意"},{"start":11551.952,"end":11570.243,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":11571.668,"end":11591.153,"text":"張宏祿 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意張宏祿 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許書祥 同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意"},{"start":11591.81,"end":11603.354,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意克麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意張祺凱﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":11620.74,"end":11639.23,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑不同意伊萬納威﹑不同意"},{"start":11640.63,"end":11654.887,"text":"張志倫同意權票 周鴻憲不同意張志倫同意權票 周鴻憲不同意許書祥同意許書祥同意邱文彥同意邱文彥同意"},{"start":11655.621,"end":11674.807,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":11676.21,"end":11700.03,"text":"張雅玲同意權票 周鴻憲同意張雅玲同意權票 周鴻憲同意許書祥同意許書祥同意邱文彥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意呂秋慧同意"},{"start":11700.558,"end":11709.741,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜威﹑同意張家俊﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意"},{"start":11725.607,"end":11744.789,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":11746.159,"end":11756.749,"text":"莊瑞雄 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意"},{"start":11768.804,"end":11795.727,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意許宇珍﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑不同意許宇珍﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意"},{"start":11796.42,"end":11821.152,"text":"鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意許季潔﹑同意權票"},{"start":11822.935,"end":11847.211,"text":"周鴻憲 同意許智傑 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許書翔 同意許書翔 同意邱文彥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意柯麗玲 同意"},{"start":11848.6,"end":11865.391,"text":"黃東義﹑同意黃東義﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意郭鈺晴﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意郭鈺晴﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意"},{"start":11866.267,"end":11893.331,"text":"許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意郭國文﹑同意全票"},{"start":11894.286,"end":11908.972,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意郭國文﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":11909.412,"end":11938.629,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意陳永康﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意陳永康﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意"},{"start":11939.696,"end":11951.1,"text":"丘文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意"},{"start":11964.412,"end":11974.822,"text":"陳玉珍 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意"},{"start":11988.254,"end":11994.144,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃冬奕﹑同意伊萬娜威﹑同意陳秀寶﹑同意權票"},{"start":12001.42,"end":12022.029,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意陳秀寶﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":12022.469,"end":12028.191,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意陳亭飛﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意"},{"start":12040.76,"end":12069.435,"text":"許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意陳峻宇﹑同意全票"},{"start":12070.293,"end":12082.961,"text":"周鴻憲 同意陳俊宇 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許書翔 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":12097.87,"end":12110.014,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意陳冠廷﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":12125.319,"end":12127.842,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12136.17,"end":12158.992,"text":"陳昭之 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意陳昭之 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許書祥 同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意呂秋慧 同意"},{"start":12159.432,"end":12168.057,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑不同意陳素月﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":12189.128,"end":12204.6,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意"},{"start":12206.051,"end":12219.162,"text":"陳培宇同意權票 周鴻憲同意許書翔同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意柯麗玲同意黃東益同意"},{"start":12234.153,"end":12249.7,"text":"黃東義﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意陳雪生﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":12261.705,"end":12270.251,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜威﹑同意陳金輝﹑同意全票"},{"start":12277.887,"end":12305.598,"text":"周鴻憲﹑不同意陳金輝﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書翔﹑同意許書翔﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":12306.078,"end":12315.283,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意陳盈﹑同意選票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":12333.871,"end":12337.995,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意麥玉珍﹑同意選票"},{"start":12346.744,"end":12367.08,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意麥玉珍﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":12367.608,"end":12370.75,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑不同意"},{"start":12379.286,"end":12391.396,"text":"副坤祺 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意"},{"start":12402.805,"end":12407.409,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12413.226,"end":12423.531,"text":"游皓同意權票 周鴻憲不同意許淑祥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意"},{"start":12436.428,"end":12441.076,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12446.853,"end":12468.778,"text":"黃秀芳同意權票 周鴻憲同意黃秀芳同意權票 周鴻憲同意許書祥同意許書祥同意邱文彥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意呂秋慧同意"},{"start":12469.258,"end":12473.447,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12479.927,"end":12490.09,"text":"黃建斌同意權票 周鴻憲不同意許書祥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意"},{"start":12502.774,"end":12505.539,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12513.677,"end":12522.021,"text":"黃國昌 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意"},{"start":12536.627,"end":12539.75,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑不同意"},{"start":12548.79,"end":12569.617,"text":"黃婕同意權票 周鴻憲同意黃婕同意權票 周鴻憲同意許書祥同意許書祥同意邱文彥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意呂秋慧同意"},{"start":12570.077,"end":12574.086,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12580.539,"end":12607.112,"text":"楊耀同意權票 周鴻憲同意楊耀同意權票 周鴻憲同意徐淑祥同意 徐淑祥同意邱文彥同意 邱文彥同意鄧家基同意 鄧家基同意王秀紅同意 王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意 呂秋慧同意柯麗玲同意 柯麗玲同意黃東益同意 黃東益同意"},{"start":12609.013,"end":12617.4,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意楊瓊英﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":12630.911,"end":12647.294,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12649.685,"end":12659.855,"text":"萬美玲同意權票 周鴻憲不同意許淑祥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意"},{"start":12673.027,"end":12677.815,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12684.139,"end":12694.302,"text":"葉元芝﹑同意權票 周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":12705.767,"end":12711.739,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12718.035,"end":12727.138,"text":"葛如君同意權票 周鴻憲不同意許淑祥同意 邱文彥同意鄧家基同意 王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意"},{"start":12741.303,"end":12753.688,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意廖先祥﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":12769.395,"end":12784.495,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意伊萬娜薇﹑同意"},{"start":12785.629,"end":12799.014,"text":"廖偉翔 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書翔 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 不同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":12815.481,"end":12840.569,"text":"一萬納威﹑同意一萬納威﹑同意劉建國﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意劉建國﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀宏﹑同意王秀宏﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":12841.638,"end":12845.587,"text":"柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12851.144,"end":12864.069,"text":"蔡奇昌 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意邱文晏 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意"},{"start":12877.797,"end":12881.226,"text":"黃東義﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":12884.338,"end":12897.047,"text":"蔡易瑜 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意邱文晏 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":12914.52,"end":12915.671,"text":"伊萬奈威 同意"},{"start":12916.978,"end":12946.318,"text":"鄭天才 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意鄭天才 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書翔 同意許書翔 同意邱文燕 同意邱文燕 同意鄧家基 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗麟 不同意柯麗麟 不同意黃東益 同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":12946.818,"end":12957.635,"text":"一萬納威．同意一萬納威．同意鄭正前．同意權票．周鴻憲．不同意鄭正前．同意權票．周鴻憲．不同意"},{"start":12958.508,"end":12982.468,"text":"許書祥ﷺ同意ﷺ許書祥ﷺ同意ﷺ邱文彥ﷺ同意ﷺ邱文彥ﷺ同意ﷺ鄧家基ﷺ同意ﷺ鄧家基ﷺ同意ﷺ王秀宏ﷺ同意ﷺ王秀宏ﷺ同意ﷺ呂秋慧ﷺ同意ﷺ呂秋慧ﷺ同意ﷺ柯麗麟ﷺ不同意ﷺ柯麗麟不同意ﷺ黃東毅ﷺ同意ﷺ黃東毅ﷺ同意ﷺ伊萬納威ﷺ同意ﷺ伊萬納威ﷺ同意ﷺ"},{"start":12983.696,"end":13012.174,"text":"魯明哲﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意魯明哲﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑不同意柯麗麟﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":13012.634,"end":13021.842,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意盧憲英﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":13039.096,"end":13043.484,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":13050.257,"end":13076.895,"text":"賴仕寶﹑同意權票 周鴻憲﹑不同意賴仕寶﹑同意權票 周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑不同意柯麗麟﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":13078.556,"end":13084.587,"text":"伊瓦納威﹑同意賴慧媛﹑同意全票"},{"start":13085.327,"end":13098.43,"text":"周鴻憲 同意賴慧媛 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意徐淑祥 同意邱文晏 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意黃東益 同意伊萬娜薇 同意"},{"start":13115.628,"end":13141.366,"text":"賴銳榮﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意賴銳榮﹑同意權票﹑周鴻憲﹑同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":13141.826,"end":13143.092,"text":"伊瓦納維 同意"},{"start":13146.398,"end":13160.186,"text":"謝宜奉同意選票．周鴻憲不同意．許淑祥同意．邱文彥同意．鄧家基同意．王秀紅同意．呂秋慧同意．柯麗玲不同意．黃東益同意．伊萬拿維同意．"},{"start":13175.855,"end":13176.944,"text":"伊萬娜威 同意"},{"start":13178.515,"end":13191.105,"text":"謝龍介 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書翔 同意邱文晏 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 不同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":13207.017,"end":13208.322,"text":"伊瓦納維﹑同意"},{"start":13211.059,"end":13237.297,"text":"鍾嘉斌﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意鍾嘉斌﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀宏﹑同意王秀宏﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意柯麗麟﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":13239.259,"end":13240.445,"text":"一萬二位（同意"},{"start":13245.577,"end":13258.586,"text":"韓國瑜 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書翔 同意邱文晏 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗麟 不同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":13274.557,"end":13275.826,"text":"伊萬納威 同意"},{"start":13279.631,"end":13306.092,"text":"嚴寬恆﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意嚴寬恆﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書翔﹑同意許書翔﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗麟﹑不同意柯麗麟﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意"},{"start":13307.833,"end":13333.806,"text":"一萬納威﹑同意一萬納威﹑同意羅廷偉﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意羅廷偉﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑不同意許書祥﹑同意許書祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意"},{"start":13334.426,"end":13337.252,"text":"柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":13344.805,"end":13357.748,"text":"羅明才 同意選票 周鴻憲 不同意許書翔 同意邱文晏 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 不同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":13374.232,"end":13380.921,"text":"一萬二位（同意一萬二位（同意羅美玲（同意全票"},{"start":13382.509,"end":13410.909,"text":"周鴻憲﹑同意羅美玲﹑同意權票周鴻憲﹑同意許書翔﹑同意許書翔﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意柯麗玲﹑同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":13412.408,"end":13420.853,"text":"羅志強 同意選票 周鴻憲 不同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意"},{"start":13432.24,"end":13437.964,"text":"呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東毅﹑同意伊瓦納威﹑同意"},{"start":13445.667,"end":13459.892,"text":"蘇巧慧 同意權票 周鴻憲 同意許淑祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意柯麗玲 同意黃東益 同意"},{"start":13473.857,"end":13485.203,"text":"伊萬納威﹑同意蘇清泉﹑同意選票周鴻憲﹑不同意許淑祥﹑同意邱文彥﹑同意鄧家基﹑同意"},{"start":13495.228,"end":13511.682,"text":"王秀紅﹑同意王秀紅﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意呂秋慧﹑同意柯麗玲﹑不同意柯麗玲﹑不同意黃東益﹑同意黃東益﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":13642.239,"end":13652.585,"text":"邱若驊同意選票 周鴻憲不同意許書翔同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意呂秋蕙不同意"},{"start":13668.394,"end":13672.779,"text":"柯麗玲﹑無效票黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":13680.914,"end":13691.804,"text":"陳超明 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意"},{"start":13706.721,"end":13709.843,"text":"柯麗玲﹑無效票黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":13718.446,"end":13728.573,"text":"黃仁 同意權票 周鴻憲 不同意許書祥 同意邱文彥 同意鄧家基 同意王秀紅 同意呂秋慧 同意"},{"start":13742.762,"end":13745.746,"text":"柯麗玲﹑無效票黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑同意"},{"start":13754.791,"end":13780.454,"text":"黃珊珊同意選票周鴻憲同意黃珊珊同意選票周鴻憲同意許初祥同意許初祥同意邱文彥同意邱文彥同意鄧家基同意鄧家基同意王秀紅同意王秀紅同意呂秋慧同意呂秋慧同意柯麗玲無效票"},{"start":13781.095,"end":13785.541,"text":"柯麗玲﹑無效票黃東毅﹑同意伊萬納威﹑不同意"},{"start":14722.383,"end":14741.57,"text":"報告委員會我們現在報告投票表決結果立法院行使考試院長、副院長及考試委員同意權投票表決結果朱鴻憲同意票59票不同意票53票無效票0票"},{"start":14742.865,"end":14751.837,"text":"許書祥同意票112票不同意票0票無效票0票邱文彥同意票112票"},{"start":14754.312,"end":14781.421,"text":"不同意票0票．無效票0票鄧家基同意票112張．不同意0張．無效票0張王秀紅同意票112張．不同意票0張．無效票0張呂秋慧同意票111張．不同意票1張．無效票0張"},{"start":14783.595,"end":14809.515,"text":"柯麗玲同意票51張不同意票57張無效票4張黃東毅同意票112張不同意票0張無效票0張伊萬娜薇同意票104票不同意票8票無效票0張"},{"start":14812.219,"end":14826.025,"text":"現在我們做以下決議一、周鴻憲獲得超過全體立法委員二分之一同意票依法同意為考試院第14屆院長二、"},{"start":14829.538,"end":14851.424,"text":"許書祥獲得超過全體立法委員二分之一同意票．依法同意為考試院第14屆副院長．三、邱文彥、鄧家基．王秀紅、呂秋慧．黃東毅、伊萬娜薇等6位．"},{"start":14852.386,"end":14860.572,"text":"均獲得超過立法委員二分之一同意票。依法同意為考試院第14屆考試委員。4、柯麗玲"},{"start":14865.871,"end":14890.122,"text":"未獲得超過全體立法委員．二分之一同意票．依法不同意．為考試院第14屆考試委員．中華民國113年12月17日．投開票監察員．翁曉琳委員．李坤城委員．麥玉珍委員．"},{"start":14893.987,"end":14920.355,"text":"有關各黨團．對考試院被提名人所提書面問題．及被提名人書面答覆之相關資料．我們補列入公報紀錄。上午會議進行到此為止．下午2點30分．我們繼續開會．進行112年度．中央政府總決算審核報告案．之報告及諮詢．現在休息。謝謝三位監察委員。"},{"start":14926.461,"end":14930.507,"text":"謝謝謝榮介委員謝謝大家謝謝所有工作夥伴謝謝"},{"start":17237.444,"end":17237.525,"text":"是否有當？請公決"},{"start":17308.997,"end":17309.079,"text":"是否有當？請公決"},{"start":21594.568,"end":21595.209,"text":"主席、各位委員、女士、先生答應審議綜合"},{"start":21624.841,"end":21644.042,"text":"中華民國112年度中央政府總結算．總結算副屬單位結算．及重計表營業部分．非營業部分．等審核報告．今天應要列行報告審核情形．自感榮幸．僅二要報告如次．一、總結算部分．112年度稅務結算．"},{"start":21647.661,"end":21673.624,"text":"損定為兩兆九千零七十三億元．稅出結算．損定為兩兆六千兩百七十七億元．稅日稅出相抵．剩餘兩千七百九十六億元．債務之償還結算．一千兩百六十億元．經兆數損定．收支剩餘計一千五百三十六億元．"},{"start":21675.25,"end":21694.452,"text":"一百一十二年度國營事業結算．準定總收入三兆五千億元．總支出三兆四千億元．淨利為五百九十八億元．繳庫股息紅利．準定為兩千零五十二億元．"},{"start":21695.916,"end":21712.601,"text":"一百一十二年度徽營業特種基金結算．損定收入三兆六千七百七十億元．總支出三兆五千六百九十四億元．剩餘為一千零八十三億元．損遞結繳工庫兩百億元．二、稅入稅出以"},{"start":21718.655,"end":21732.379,"text":"收支之平衡．政府助推動財政健全方案以來．財政收支結構．逐步改善．截至113年10月抵止．一年以上．債務未償已有．實際市為5兆8780億以延．三、審核綜合成果．"},{"start":21739.659,"end":21768.695,"text":"各措審核報告．共計提出619項．重要審核意見．其中．屬住住．規章缺失或設施不良．而提出建議意見．129項．四、重要審核意見．本部就政府重要施政計畫．及攸關民生之重要議題．等施以查核．並研提重要審核意見．之災藥報告如次．一．"},{"start":21769.71,"end":21796.33,"text":"政府未建立國家氣候變遷條數推動機制．合定國家氣候變遷條數行動方案．辦理125項的條數行動計畫．為部分計畫未進行脆弱度減量評估．後未切實辦理氣候變遷風險評估作業．又尚未完成氣候變遷風險評估．準則等相關主法的訂定．二"},{"start":21800.47,"end":21823.876,"text":"這行政院自100年通過改善所得分配具體方案．對於減緩所得分配．不經既有注意．為107年至111年我國所得分配．不經程度及所得差異倍數．容維護擴大．租稅改善所得分配效果有限．又青年除夕低薪．社會住宅及資金補貼．"},{"start":21826.439,"end":21854.389,"text":"解決弱勢機制問題．經濟弱勢學生輔助之成效．容待提升．三、政府為強化食品衛生安全．於105年間提出食安五環政策．由農業部、衛生福利部．等五個主管機關共同執行．截至112年抵制．以納管65萬家食品業者．公告33例業者實施食品．"},{"start":21855.069,"end":21877.03,"text":"安全監測計畫．為對於邊境檢驗措施．檢出不合格產品．為即時因應調整查驗強度．施股殘留農藥含量超標．諸違規案件逐年攀升．化學營尚無法跨部會進行．化學物主流向之勾擊比對作業。是"},{"start":21880.188,"end":21893.59,"text":"政府為打擊詐欺定班．新世代打擊詐欺行動干營1.5版．112年度投入經費8億元．以計相當執行成果．為詐騙手法層出不窮．112年度詐欺案件．擁有3萬一件．財損金額88億元．由於投資詐欺最為嚴重．有待除夕整合租源．精進各項執行策略．"},{"start":21909.173,"end":21929.072,"text":"五、政府為解決老屋耐震能力不足問題．並促進都市土地開發利用．至108年辦理都市更新發展計畫．截至112年度之．累計核定1130件都更案．及341"},{"start":21933.788,"end":21953.572,"text":"3414件危老重建案．全國屋齡超過30年以上之老屋．與全國總房屋之辦事．令雙北地區三角斷層沿線老舊市區．及0403大地震過後之危險．建築物所在區域．上代儘速劃定更新地區。6"},{"start":21957.461,"end":21983.96,"text":"政府為除夕改善道路交通安全．推動道路交通助溪與交通安全改進方案．為112年度交通速度死亡人數3023人．為達方案下降目標．且遏少發生交通速度死亡人數增加．令補助地方政府．辦理提升道路品質計畫．作為衛生周圓．完工後消費指標為達目標．"},{"start":21987.062,"end":22009.935,"text":"7、政府為推動應應超高齡社會對策方案．112年度投入經費259億元．推動了345項工作．整體達成例A94.49%．為對策方案各變相的工作．規劃工作比重差異擴大．政策措施擁有擴增空間．"},{"start":22012.856,"end":22037.269,"text":"日照中心及社區關懷祭典．部件比例容待提升．不問勞動法令尚未配合檢修調適．就業環境容普遍存在年齡氣勢現象．8、政府為改善投資環境推動．投資臺灣三大方案．核定產業投資五大要素優化政策．截至112年度值．核定投資案件．"},{"start":22038.305,"end":22064.359,"text":"一千四百一件．投資均有兩兆一千七百二十二億元．為政策法規定定標準．為明確部分．優化投資環境計劃執行進度落後．台山匯回資金應用於產業實質投資未及六成．一半是案件尚未完成投資．且樹地性產業用地．擁有不足．供電品質亦待強化．"},{"start":22067,"end":22079.787,"text":"9、政府為應應思維科技相關專業人才﹐需求除息增加﹐推動關鍵人才培育及延攬方案﹐截至112年度值﹐累計投入經費67億元﹐110至112年學年度與合併扣充﹐"},{"start":22084.91,"end":22103.221,"text":"科學技術工程及數學領域系統．招生名額19,247人．為為有效舒緩人才短期情況．國家發展委員會．為掌握海外人才資料庫．就業金卡．取得及來台就業狀況．積極延攬國際人才．"},{"start":22107.634,"end":22129.746,"text":"十、政府為推進．促進數位國家．以創新積極發展．推動諸位國家方案．110年至112年度．累入投入經費920億元．對於提升我國數位領域競爭優勢．既有相當注意．為部分部會．商會防備AI法治配套測試．營單聯網中心．上華國際海欄業者參與．"},{"start":22135.129,"end":22163.602,"text":"低軌通信衛星計畫．部分關鍵技術及研究開發時程未如預期．影響衛星發射時程．本部向來秉持以民為本的審計理念．計較攸關國際民生的政府重要施政．近5年共計已提出57篇專章．其中112年度有17篇．內容涵蓋氣候變遷．及炸期首度分配食品安全．"},{"start":22165.083,"end":22176.392,"text":"智慧國家及智慧運輸等17個議題．所提相關重要審核意見．經行政院及各有關主管機關．積極研磨改善．主要列舉如處．一、應應"},{"start":22179.56,"end":22194.887,"text":"7.2變遷方面．政府為推動近隱轉型．未來公佈人家規劃授助永系長．與民間同步落實近隱轉型．令研擬7.2變遷方針．評估作為準則裁判．後續將依法定程序公告搬行"},{"start":22196.325,"end":22210.24,"text":"二、改善所得方面．行政院於今年113年7月．設立了經濟發展委員會．以將所得分配合理化．提高低薪對策．資本利得與薪資課稅等．列入討論解決範疇．並由各部會其次．持續推動交易．"},{"start":22215.482,"end":22241.182,"text":"機制、租稅等對策方案．令114年度．將調整基本公積4.08%．及金工教條新．新出待遇．3%．其發揮速範效果．帶動企業調新．三、打擊．加強打擊詐欺方面．大院已三讀通過打詐新釋法．行政院並設置打詐指揮中心．定打詐．"},{"start":22242.183,"end":22258.143,"text":"行綱綱領2.0先速全力打造是建構安基環境方面．以協助．地方政府應用〈0403大地震信訊劃定都市更新第7、36案．"},{"start":22260.793,"end":22276.364,"text":"復訂全國都更1167件．及違牢重建案3721件．立復續推動新建社會住宅資金補貼等多元基礎政策．五、應用超高齡社會方面復續佈建長照機構．整體長照服務涵蓋率達80.19%．"},{"start":22282.128,"end":22295.971,"text":"新增壯樹袋就業促進撤出．鼓勵壯樹袋．持續投入勞動庶長．配合政府推動國家希望工程施政重點．及呼應各界普遍關注的議題．"},{"start":22297.165,"end":22320.514,"text":"本部已將政府推動近年轉型打擊詐欺改善所得分配、輪才培育政府、諸會政府等重要施政納為113及114年度的查核工作重點．將除夕加強查核．發揮審計功能．眾上請請主席、各位委員、女士、先生、主教謝謝"},{"start":22326.561,"end":22326.641,"text":"謝謝陳審計長的報告"},{"start":22330.967,"end":22358.968,"text":"我們即將進行委員的諮詢在進行諮詢之前向各位介紹我們在一場二樓旁聽的臺北市百齡高中國中部的同學我們掌聲歡迎各位國家未來主人翁歡迎你們接下來向各位委員院會報告一下每位委員的詢答時間不得超過15分鐘輪到諮詢的委員如果不在場適同棄權首先我們請鍾嘉斌委員詢問"},{"start":22371.074,"end":22383.706,"text":"主席、在場的議事公務人員、省紀長及隨同官員、以旁聽信老、國民今天我們就來就省紀部來進行諮詢那主席邀請省紀長麻煩請省紀理長"},{"start":22395.786,"end":22421.899,"text":"總委員好陳議長好我今天的題目很清楚落實救安基金合規運用而且要強化審計的最終主導功能我想每次我跟您請教我都會跟您確認一下我們審計部的功能因為外界不是很了解所以我請教一下審計的職權是不是有包括合法性審計、績效性審計跟記憶查財務的維持是包含這三大部分的面向功能"},{"start":22422.699,"end":22438.596,"text":"那麼在於財務審計的部分根據審計法第二條你們包括監督預算的執行並且要審核財務的收支對吧對那你們在績效審計的部分根據你們的審計法第69條如果機關未盡職責者你們要報告他的上級機關甚至要報告監察院對嗎"},{"start":22440.014,"end":22462.447,"text":"那如果是因為不是因為預算的問題是他你們發現是制度的缺失或者是有設施不良你們要提出改善的建議對嗎對那如果你們發現不是他沒有做而不是他做得不好是他沒有做有些可以增進公益的你們也可以建議機關要去做吧是吧對對那另外呢雖然還沒發生但是你們看到有潛在的風險你們要提出預警的意見是不是"},{"start":22462.907,"end":22491.825,"text":"是的好所以省基部的功能很重要你同意嗎同意好那我們來問一下這個特題你知道就業安定基金吧就業安定基金的來源跟用途你大概知道嗎加強國民就業好它大概有將近八成是來自於僱主使用國外移工必須繳的費用它其中的包含三個作用第一它辦理有關這個國民就業第二要提供勞工的福祉第三它要處理有關外國人的"},{"start":22492.813,"end":22519.919,"text":"拼固管理好 那我們來看一下112年度到底用了哪些你覺得哪個部分用了最多錢提振勞工福祉5%外國人的拼固管理11%用最多的是不是促進本國國民的就業對的好 那你認為在疫情期間我們提供本國人的薪資補貼算不算算那如果像花東大地震災後的災民他的從晚就業這算不算算"},{"start":22520.438,"end":22535.887,"text":"好那我們看下一頁那如果說以這次勞發署北分署他用來裝修他分署長他的辦公室安裝軌道燈花了140多萬這算不算救安基金的合法用途這有點勉強"},{"start":22538.277,"end":22539.117,"text":"為什麼這些人員要中央一條片來指派?"},{"start":22559.514,"end":22578.731,"text":"因為要獨立要獨立要內部集合要集合這個機關首長有沒有內機內控對不對對如果以這個北分署來講把救安基因拿去裝修首長的辦公室誰應該發現是不是主計或會計主任要發現說不能核銷應該那如果他核銷了那這個主計主任是不是失職"},{"start":22586.147,"end":22601.176,"text":"那另外人事主任．如果機關內部的員工．經常超時加班加日來加班．那這個人事主任是否發現有異常．表示首長的內部的人事派遣猜情有問題．要不要提出報告要如果沒有提出來．人事主任有沒有失職"},{"start":22603.019,"end":22610.432,"text":"好那最後一個政風如果機關內部這麼多問題政風一定會接到檢舉如果今天政風接到檢舉沒有來查辦政風有沒有失職"},{"start":22613.784,"end":22638.592,"text":"應該有好那我們看這些都是中央一條邊指派到各機關像勞分署這是四級機關那他們跟首長的關係他是要監督跟輔佐首長對不對對如果被首長摸摸頭了他們完全失禁內部的紀錄功能誰來監督這些幕僚機關你覺得誰還可以監督他他來監督首長的結果他自己卻同流合污怎麼辦"},{"start":22641.732,"end":22651.593,"text":"我請教他要報告他的上級他就是被摸頭啦被收買啦他同流合污啊來我們來看一看審計單位的職能他是一個外部監督政府財政"},{"start":22652.503,"end":22673.031,"text":"一個政府機關你們審計室各界審計室是每年要跟這些行政機關中央地方跟他看他的審計報告跟他調一些數據出來做一些審查對不對對你覺得審計部跟你們的審計室有沒有可能去發掘機關內部政風人士跟會計他出了問題有沒有可能發掘"},{"start":22675.413,"end":22683.019,"text":"如果他在預算的資料上有問題就地抽查以後有可能發生有可能如果你們發生問題你們要怎麼做我沒退"},{"start":22684.895,"end":22707.148,"text":"你們怎麼做?會移送,像這個未競組者會移送他的相關單位。如果是財務上設有不法或重大違私,你們要移送上級機關,或交給監察院或司法機關嗎?對。所以這一件,勞發署的北分署可能有這個問題,你們就會做這樣的行為嗎?對不對?對。那如果是預算執行校能部長你們突出審核報告,你們機關回覆審核意見之後,"},{"start":22708.129,"end":22728.954,"text":"他要負政治責任嘛,所長負政治責任嘛,是不是這樣?對,對。所以一個是政治責任,一個是法律跟刑法上或受懲戒的責任,是不是有這個,你們有這個能力?審計報告可以敦促機關所長面對他的政治責任,或者是他要去面對他因為違法,他的法律責任跟刑事或公務員受懲處的責任,是不是這是你們的責任?對。"},{"start":22730.185,"end":22739.571,"text":"沒有錯齁好那請問你認為目前審計部你們年度的審計報告還有你們手下的審計室有沒有對中央或地方機關達到這樣的功能"},{"start":22741.402,"end":22765.823,"text":"應該我們都有你有沒有統計有有那你們目前因為你們的審計報告發掘出這些不管是預算執行效能不彰還是因為機關內部設有不法或重大違私要負起法律責任或刑事責任或移送監察院懲戒的有沒有有那大概怎麼樣數字怎麼樣每年怎麼樣存報監察案這五年一千多件一千多件移送涉及刑事案件2859案是"},{"start":22769.656,"end":22798.063,"text":"通知各機關查明處分的有2037人次剛剛講的增進財務效能的建議和重要審核意見我們這五年提出了一萬兩千多件那這樣的成績你滿意嗎?這樣的成績你滿意嗎?因為沈記長也有沈記單位你滿意嗎?我們會盡量再來加油那像勞發署、北分署這個情況你們有沒有查出來?有有,那你們做出了什麼樣的一個處置?"},{"start":22799.923,"end":22821.632,"text":"第一個他的未競逐責的他有那個採購異常的我們就移送檢調那檢察院呢未競逐責的我們依照我們的損計劃第69條移送監察院你們送了沒有最近這個報告正在加快啦全國都在看好我接下一個問題好來"},{"start":22822.964,"end":22833.347,"text":"先問你,先有田才有水,水田水田,是先有田才有水,還是先有水才有田?應該先有水才有田,因為是農作物。水資源是影響農業產量的重要關鍵因素。我們看到這幾年來,我們的農業部的農田水利建設,從127億成長200億,到接下來2025年下來會有212億。"},{"start":22848.471,"end":22859.693,"text":"你認為﹐農田水利設施的更新改善﹐跟軍務的復興、快遇整合﹐還有精準化的灌溉措施﹐以擴大灌牌戶﹐你覺得哪一項影響農民﹐哪一項要最優先做﹐"},{"start":22861.956,"end":22888.652,"text":"這事項都很重要 但是 農田水利設施更新改善這是影響最大那我們來看一下 現在農業部說怎麼樣他說沒有灌溉用水當然影響到農民耕作所以他們做到了 擴大灌溉服務達到五萬六千公頃過去水利會的時代有分灌區內他才處理 灌區外的不處理現在灌區外的農民認為有需要他可以跟農田水利組織申請農田會幫他做這些農田水利設施 對不對"},{"start":22891.494,"end":22904.382,"text":"好那請問一下如果我的農田原來在你們的灌區外現在你說願意幫我服務我就提出申請在你還沒有幫我做之前請問我的農地上沒有辦法好好的發揮農業效應農業部怎麼辦農民怎麼辦"},{"start":22908.38,"end":22912.986,"text":"如果灌溉設施未完善,主管機關要不要制定補償措施?"},{"start":22927.243,"end":22944.762,"text":"應該有目前國土計劃法我們的農業發展區有第一類第二類還有其他類但是我被化了為農業發展區之後我就限制我做其他的使用但是如果政府的灌開措施設施還沒有到我進來我沒辦法做我的農田發展那你覺得政府有沒有意外補償"},{"start":22945.936,"end":22966.551,"text":"你限定了人民的使用你又沒有提供他足夠的配屬設施政府要不要補償我們有向農業部提出這樣的建議就是跟我說的認同優先改善農業發展預定區的農田水庫設施如果還沒有做我們就要補償你同意嗎我同意好那我們來看一下現在根據土地稅法"},{"start":22967.752,"end":22995.299,"text":"在非都的地區他編訂了農業用地那他是身後前戶但是都市土地如果他的公共設施未完成前如果能做農地使用的不收地價稅是不是這也是一種補償嘛對我是可以工業用地我可以蓋工廠但是你沒有開闢道路我不能做工廠我自己去做農業用地那你不能跟我收什麼工業用地的地價稅嘛對好但是我們農地不收農戶我們來看看"},{"start":22995.859,"end":23008.008,"text":"那是不是我們可以根據下一個你可以要求農業部增進新增的科目預算對於過去經濟部若久悍不語他會調度農業用水經濟部會給農民的休耕補償對不對對"},{"start":23011.01,"end":23025.8,"text":"那如果不是因為天氣久旱不雨是因為農業部的灌溉設施未達我農地沒辦法灌溉沒辦法做好的友善耕作你認不認為農業部或你們支持要編列預算科目的用途來補償農民你這不支持"},{"start":23027.238,"end":23051.536,"text":"應該由農業部好好的來檢討很好,所以你要監督農業部新增預算科目提出相對應的補償所以我看最後就是說有水才有田,灌溉設施是農權如果我們政府應提供而未提供農業設施的話那我們這個不是施捨政府要提出補償措施能不能督導我們行政部門要具體的趕快提出改善方案"},{"start":23054.236,"end":23077.122,"text":"我先問你,如果你是老師,全班的總平均是95分,只有一個是考不到70分的,其他都98分。今天你跟校長說,我要把全班的平均分數從90分往上拉高,你是要幫助那些98分以上的考100分,還是先把那個70分的拉起來?"},{"start":23078.083,"end":23107.185,"text":"把70分的拉起來空間最有效益嘛對不對對好那我們來往下看同樣的我們來看臺灣的自來水普及我們的卓院長說啊我們的自來水普及率95%已經都有了剩下的5%沒有所以你認為未來自來水的普及要從這5%去擴大要找哪一個地方找普及率高的還是找普及率低的找普及率低的很好我們來看一下齁目前我們自來水的啊屏東只有全國未達八成"},{"start":23108.035,"end":23124.242,"text":"我們全國的普及率是95%那過去這幾年我們屏東成功的在短短3年內因為前瞻基礎建設的支持我們從63%提升到72%增加了6%、5%好那請問你往下看你認為接下來我們自來水的沿管工程"},{"start":23124.882,"end":23145.538,"text":"是要去針對已經普及率95%的繼續去找那個還剩下人口少偏遠的管型要較長的還是要找像屏東這種普及率低還有很多人口稠密的地方他的管線施設比較短的地方優先去做哪個成本比較低應該是普及率低的像屏東這樣的地方你完全認同嗎好那我們來往下看"},{"start":23146.243,"end":23165.934,"text":"各縣市的延緩工程的平均成本就像你說的沒有錯普及率越高的他要繼續施工的成本比較高普及率低的像屏東只要不到16萬就可以做到一戶了所以全國目前有超過51%的經費是用到屏東其他各縣市用的比較少你認為這樣的分配是合理還是不合理"},{"start":23167.932,"end":23193.645,"text":"你認為屏東用比較多合不合理合理很合理那未來如果我們這樣的相關計畫的經費運用是不是要繼續加碼投資屏東縣這是應該往這個方面來那所以我的結論就是說相較於其他縣市站在審計部你們績效審計的立場提高全屏東縣的自來水的普及率對於全國的自來水普及的最後一里路是不是最有幫助"},{"start":23194.52,"end":23202.202,"text":"對的那你們審計部的審計報告未來再看這樣的相關的水利或自來水普及工程你們會提出這樣的建議給行政院嗎"},{"start":23203.386,"end":23223.962,"text":"向委員報告,我們今年在合作114年的上半年在做無住來水地區的專案審計、專案調查我們會把委員的這些看法、觀點納進考慮這不是我的觀點,你完全認同就是審計部的意見了因為這都是合規合理的嘛"},{"start":23224.702,"end":23243.938,"text":"在那你們的職責你們就應該建議吧不是因為中委員建議嘛應該是你們本於職責這樣建議是不是這樣對你審計部是獨立機關那又不是我中央安兵的指令是不是這樣有一個問題啊因為他的湖流水啊湖流水對很發達對資源模擬所以啊接管的人啊"},{"start":23245.279,"end":23270.164,"text":"好像欸 意願也不是那麼強你放心 前幾年缺 缺餘啊 地下水抽不到 大家都嚇壞了 大家都要裝置來說那應該就在這個機會啊 趕快把它補給民眾的意願不是問題 政府的經費是要加強挹注好 來 最後你的結論啦就是說 除了我剛剛說的救安基金 你們的審計 你們要發揮最後監督的審計功能監督機關裡面才 就是政風"},{"start":23271.36,"end":23294.938,"text":"主計跟人事你們要作為這些監督單位最後的最終監督你們要做這兩個省紀部在決算審核報告因監督農業部透過預算科目的增列提供尚無灌溉服務地區的補償措施你知不支持我們會來做一個審計的那個檢討好那另外自來水的普及你也支持你剛剛的做法對不對對"},{"start":23300.583,"end":23326.64,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌委員詢問也謝謝陳主席長沈記長詢答第二位我們請登記第二位的廖先祥委員請詢問好謝謝院長也要麻煩邀請我們沈記長"},{"start":23329.838,"end":23331.278,"text":"麻煩陳省經理長廖委員好省經理長好這個延續剛剛中委員的議題因為救安基金應該是國人最近非常關心的一個政府預算質詢的一個相當大的一個社會議題大家非常的關心那除了先前可能大家有提到的演唱會的問題啊辦公室優化"},{"start":23357.345,"end":23376.036,"text":"等等的問題之外昨天在民眾黨有黨民眾黨也有召開相關的記者會也有提出一些其他相關的問題比如說媒體採購的限制性的招標問題或者是說他們的拍影片以及他的成效的問題那以及這個可能一些紀念品等等的"},{"start":23376.516,"end":23402.956,"text":"那剛剛這個沈縣長說相關的救安基金的專案報告之前提一個院內會提出來嘛那譬如說以個人演唱會這件事情來講應該是2022年的時候的事情那我們在那件事情發生之後我們這個省基部有沒有提出任何的相關的報告或檢討針對救安基金的缺失提出相關的一些糾正有在新聞爆發之前"},{"start":23403.869,"end":23422.607,"text":"第一個他連續3年啦虧了差不多200億要勞動部要去好好檢討第二個我們收回啊為何救安基金用的收回他差不多沒有符合規定的租出3億多元"},{"start":23423.627,"end":23440.153,"text":"第三個他在補助一些數位團體數位單位差不多100多家但是我們查這100多家長年連續三年都違反勞動法令要他要勞動部好好檢討"},{"start":23441.193,"end":23463.622,"text":"大概我們都會就這些包括他的收支並結算我們都會提出來好所以針對就葉安丁基金長期來可能對我們審計部來說也算是長期的一個黑名單了啦應該是我們都會注意他特別他注意他的就這個使用的狀況有沒有符合我們的法令那按照我們的這個"},{"start":23465.356,"end":23493.845,"text":"法定規定我們如果說在我們的預算使用上面依照我們審計法第21條如果說有各機關違背預算或者是有關法定的不當支出我們可以事後剔除追繳之那想請問一下那我們就是針對救安基金比如說剛剛大家最關心的開個人演唱會或者是辦公室裝潢的這個部分我們後續會不會提出這個剔除以及追繳"},{"start":23495.075,"end":23521.462,"text":"八位委員我們所謂因為這個大家全國人民關心我們有已經派我們的同仁去查核是初步發現為符合基金用途的有將近五千多億五千多萬五千多萬抱歉五千多萬這五千多萬我們大概會收回會幫忙收回像這個和採購異常的或者這個我們會移送檢調"},{"start":23524.043,"end":23531.093,"text":"像未竟執著的我們會移送監察案剛剛上面講的這些都是包含剔除跟追繳嗎?"},{"start":23532.476,"end":23556.512,"text":"大部分都收回的地方就是如果他有一些很明確的違背法令我們就會追繳或剔除追繳那這個追繳的對象是因為要回去看這個責任我們會請勞動部去這個問題給他他會給我們回覆會申錄當然大家最關心追繳的對象是誰你是跟機關追繳還是跟違法運用經費的這個當時的這個公職人員來追繳"},{"start":23562.359,"end":23562.439,"text":"因為這個是這樣"},{"start":23566.009,"end":23594.453,"text":"這兩個都可能要看你們後續的調查採購人員因為這個為什麼要做這樣的採購呢我們可能他涉及違法那他就要盡到檢調比如說許前部長他不會是採購人員嗎他不會是第一線採購人員嗎對那如果是他那個沙龍罩那這個可能就我們可能就會請他那個單位我們會請他收回他就怎麼收回我們會瞭解他是不是向個人收回"},{"start":23594.833,"end":23602.847,"text":"好所以說在之後的一個你們講的一個月的時間的報告提出報告的時候我可不可以拜託沈記長是否針對這一些你們認為有違法"},{"start":23605.738,"end":23624.771,"text":"違規或是不當使用的一些經費﹖你們評估一下哪些經費﹖你們認為應該要踢除、追繳﹖哪一些不用﹖那並把你們認為要不要的﹖理由、序名﹖這可不可以﹖可以﹖可以﹖就到時候在報告裡面﹖都可以看得一清二楚﹖我們審計部的立場﹖好﹖另外一點﹖我先謝謝審計長﹖那另外一點就是﹖"},{"start":23625.692,"end":23645.22,"text":"因為基金喔特別好用啦所以很多單位都喜歡用那我們就業安定基金他有沒有哪一項他的特別的可能業務啊或是等等他的功能有沒有什麼東西是本預算沒有辦法可能就勞動部這個機關本預算沒有辦法來這個達成他的目標任務的"},{"start":23649.812,"end":23668.07,"text":"因為剛剛鄧家麗病委有講嘛我們的收入大概就是這個移工的移工的收入嘛對不對移工的這個雇主繳的錢那支出當然就是這是穩定我們的就業那這些預算用在基金邊跟本預算邊他如果說要把這些基金預算挪回來本預算的話有沒有自愛難行的地方"},{"start":23669.045,"end":23695.704,"text":"就是預算編列的問題應該是沒有就是說救安基金他是有專用專款專用的一個性質他要用到那個法就業服務法裡面注定的促進國民就業提供勞工扶植這一方面他一定要用到他沒有用到這方面就是要在他的那個公務預算裡面編列不能在這裡來"},{"start":23699.245,"end":23724.09,"text":"來編（來注用所以就是因為剛剛沈記長有跟大家說明救安基金這幾年操置並決算的情況非常嚴重這就是基金的好處大家都要用基金我可以操置我到時候再並決算就好了那照剛剛沈記長講的既然他的問題這麼嚴重前科雷雷那他又沒有那個絕對存在不可替代的必要的話那沈記長你認為救安基金"},{"start":23725.327,"end":23752.097,"text":"如果說我們來提倡把它廢除的話您有沒有怎麼樣的個人意見把就業安定基金廢除回到勞動部的本預算去執行它的所有預算的收支就業安定基金是可以檢討會辭可能知識體大因為它已經行之三十幾年了所以有它的可是剛剛沈記長說它的所有的支出應該都是可以編在本預算內啊"},{"start":23753.455,"end":23775.586,"text":"然後他的撤職並決算的情況又這麼嚴重不受監督早年財政困難的時候有時候真的有一個專款專用對促進國民就業就提供勞工扶植會相當重要所以這個要慎重好沒關係那這一部分可不可以一併納入我們審計部的一個專案報告裡面"},{"start":23778.347,"end":23805.653,"text":"好就是針對就位基金他存在的必要性如果說你們認為他有存在的必要的話那你就序明清楚讓大家知道你們的專業獨立的意見好謝謝沈機長那另外一點就是我們立法院的預算中心定期也都會提供我們一些他們的審查的一些情況那我們的立法院預算中心提出幾個意見也有些意見就是針對中央政府的整體媒體宣傳費用的規模的增長那"},{"start":23807.253,"end":23829.019,"text":"一部分是金額的提高一部分是有許多的部分機關就是他可能他把這個媒體的相關的費用閃編在公務或是非基金的非營業基金或是特別預算當中那沈記長您認為同樣一個可能他是同樣的一個主管同樣一個可以運用這些資金的人他把這些媒體的這個"},{"start":23831.2,"end":23837.238,"text":"廣告的宣傳費用：拆散到不同的單位：部長：欸這個沈機長：您認為這樣是適宜的做法嗎?"},{"start":23839.795,"end":23863.57,"text":"這個政慾先導經會我們專案查了三年三年都專案調查我們也提出了非常多的意見給行政院參考後來他也訂立了專項但是他有的是說他會放在婚姻樂園裡面也有公務也有所以但是我們在查核的時候我們會把這幾個一起"},{"start":23867.012,"end":23887.802,"text":"來查我的說一起看一起檢討對其實營業基金可以理解營業基金另外看都沒有問題但是你公務預算跟非營業基金如果說你把一筆應該要用的款項把它拆分下來都會讓人家懷疑是不是有規避監督的這樣子的一個他的當初的想法會讓人家這樣子來懷疑所以說"},{"start":23889.175,"end":23912.516,"text":"如果說我們過去都有在做一些專案在跟行政院來溝通的話代表說沈記長應該也是認為相關的媒體宣傳費用不只是媒體宣傳費用啦應該是相關的費用如果說能夠集中一個這個主管機關來編列的話對於我們事後的稽查或者是他的公開透明來講的話應該都是有正面的幫助委員這個意見很好但是行政部門啊他有他的考慮也有他的相當困難"},{"start":23913.337,"end":23929.013,"text":"是好沒關係那至少是沈記長是認同這樣子的意見那行政機關他們有如果說不這樣做的話他們應該要續名理由為什麼他們要這樣子做好沒有問題好謝謝好謝謝沈記長那第三個第三個我們來討論一下這個採購的一些這個問題啦那這個採購的問題如果說啦有一個機關啊他針對"},{"start":23935.8,"end":23936.261,"text":"同意權之行使事項"},{"start":23946.456,"end":23967.87,"text":"高度集中化集中到某一個產家這個我們會注意要他多次都集中這個產家我們就會列為高度風險我們會專案查核我們先不要預測說這家廠商或者是採購過程中有沒有非法的部分我們不要預測他這樣子的一個現象對我們國家採購有沒有不良的一個印象"},{"start":23968.61,"end":23996.171,"text":"一般啦大家公務機關如果他是優良的他可以幫忙這個機關我們大概就這個是因為他是有時候找他可以把他的整個建築各方面的採購啊做得很好也有他這個工程會也有鼓勵用這樣的一個方法但是我們目前啦我們對於這些採購啊一點差不多有"},{"start":23997.792,"end":24008.999,"text":"有19萬件差不多有兩兆億元的採購我想跟審議長報告的是高度集中化會有依賴性過強的問題依賴性過強的問題不利於市場的公平競爭那你跟在廠方的這個談判或議約議價之間你的主動權會相對的比這個"},{"start":24021.202,"end":24034.026,"text":"這個這個充分競爭的一個市場好來的低嘛對不對是那所以說呃正在我們採購立場上我今天要提的是我們的國防預算我們這幾年啊其實在早年我們中華民國的國防的採購並沒有說"},{"start":24037.227,"end":24057.813,"text":"這個專門要就是專門都向哪一個國家採購比如說我們過去常跟美國採購也會跟法國採購無論是我們的幻象戰機或者是我們的可能拉法葉艦雖然說它過程發生一些弊案但是我們原則上它的分散有分散的好處但是近年來我們中華民國的軍備的採購長期的集中在美國這一個單一的國家"},{"start":24059.894,"end":24077.423,"text":"產生的長期的依賴性．他就會產生了一些的後遺症．產生後遺症．比如說我們媒體常常報道說．美軍相關的軍備採購案．他常常會有嚴當交貨的一塊的情形．這部分應該我們審計部．也都有在對國防部的時候．也都會有集合到．"},{"start":24078.203,"end":24102.567,"text":"有,像這個大概我們現在集合到的差不多有兩千多有兩千八百多億的備存帳在美國也有一千五百多億的那個延後交貨甚至是他可能是簽約了之後再預約也有可能預約之後他就不算在這裡面了"},{"start":24106.696,"end":24126.425,"text":"這樣子的一個情形就會對於我們的充值我們的國防他絕對是一個潛在的一個因子我們今天花了那麼多錢他的東西沒有辦法如時如約的如期的來交貨就會對我們的國防產生了一個可能產生了一些漏洞那針對這個部分我不曉得國防部針對他們的機密預算我們審計部也有辦法集合到嗎"},{"start":24127.419,"end":24139.891,"text":"都有都可以集合到大概經過案是高度的軍事和政治的一個因素還是有國家上位的政策還要考慮到國家整個國家安全各方面的事情"},{"start":24146.397,"end":24170.758,"text":"但是就是可能近年包括我們國防部﹐給我們立法院的一個報告﹐包括我們的高效能反專甲飛彈﹐F16的一些性能提升﹐還有我們新式戰機的採購﹐在他們可能換約了之後還是有延宕的情形﹐那就可能會﹐他的更早的一個起因﹐可能是因為我們國軍長期以來依賴美軍﹐他認為我們只有單一的窗口﹐我們不會去跟英國﹐我們不會去跟法國﹐我們不會去跟其他國家來進行軍購﹐"},{"start":24172.199,"end":24194.688,"text":"所以他可能在跟我們的談判上面他會比較強勢甚至美國他們對於這個海外軍售的制度是只要在發架書的最後年度前交貨就是可能會有這個階段性嘛他們不管階段性他們只管最後的這個年度前交貨就不算延遲那這樣子的一個合約的簽訂您認為是適當的嗎我們有請國防部檢討"},{"start":24198.891,"end":24213.547,"text":"請國防部檢討我們有發現這樣的問題請國防部要好好的檢討以後對於不管是任何國家只要有相關的軍備的採購案當初合約怎麼訂沒有特殊的原因那就必須要如期如約的來交貨"},{"start":24214.548,"end":24237.999,"text":"那他們有相關的一些違約機制嗎?我們政府任何政府機關採購都會有違約的懲罰金啊那軍公案會有嗎?軍公案他在訂的時候是沒有我們目前沒有看也要求他我們在查核的時候發現這種現象所以我們也有要求國防部應該要有這樣的一個機制要去能夠對這方面做一個要求那就麻煩我們審計部繼續針對上述的問題來提出一些建議給我們"},{"start":24243.936,"end":24270.668,"text":"好,謝謝廖先祥委員的詢問,也謝謝陳省記長的詢答。現在在我們議場二樓旁聽的是來自美國智庫東西中心2024年Jefferson獎金計畫的資深記者團。Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.我們掌聲歡迎。在接下來我們請登記第三位林毅君委員,請詢問。"},{"start":24294.564,"end":24297.689,"text":"謝謝院長 有請沈記長李委員好"},{"start":24308.718,"end":24333.174,"text":"最近勞動部爆發勞發署北分署的前署長 謝宜容涉嫌職場霸凌導致公務員的輕生案漸漸衍生出勞動部濫用就業安定基金從這幾年中央政府總預算案的預算書裡面可以發現就業安定基金的宣傳費竟然連連的增加那111年是1.2億112年是1.5億"},{"start":24338.017,"end":24367.085,"text":"到113年編列1.7億然後明年的預算編列更是高達2億1700多萬元實在是令人匪夷所思更難以理解從81年起政府為了平衡僱主聘僱移工的衍生的社會成本就依據就業服務法規定對僱主徵收就業安定費而且所有的僱主每個月要繳納就業安定費2000元給就業安定基金"},{"start":24367.725,"end":24395.741,"text":"根據資料顯示光是112年度的就業安定基金一整年的收取就業安定費的收入就高達212億多元其中將近三分之一的收入是由聘僱社福的移工的僱主所繳納的其實這個對長期聘僱外籍看護工的私人的家庭還有跟身心障礙者是非常沉重的經濟上面的負擔因此有關就業安定基金的預算的編列和"},{"start":24397.763,"end":24399.606,"text":"經費之用本席想要請教沈記長幾個問題"},{"start":24402.182,"end":24427.987,"text":"根據救安基金收支的保管．還有運用的辦法規定．救安基金是用來．辦理促進國民的就業．提升勞工的福祉．及處理外國人聘僱管理的事情．結果沒想到．近年來的救安基金．卻遭媒體踢爆被濫用的情勢．包括勞動部及勞動力發展署．濫用救安基金媒體政策．及業務的宣傳費的推廣費．"},{"start":24429.827,"end":24445.266,"text":"用來舉辦音樂會．還有採購三節的禮品等明顯就是救安基金的規定．跟救安基金的規定的用途未盡相符那我們執政黨竟然．濫用安定勞工的社福的預算．變成了政府官員舉辦音樂會．唱歌、養媒體．"},{"start":24449.051,"end":24476.449,"text":"還有做大內宣．甚至用來裝潢辦公室．還有採購三節的禮品．送禮做人情的不當使用．這對遵守法規．按時繳納就業安定費的．弱勢私人的家庭．來說是情何以堪啊．如此濫用人民的納稅錢．怎麼對得起．廣大的勞工的朋友呢．那請問沈記長．你說這是不是明顯的．浪費公堂啊．"},{"start":24477.574,"end":24493.315,"text":"他看起來應該不合基金用好那再請問沈記長沈記部有沒有掌握就業安定基金近年來的媒體政策及業務的宣導費及推廣費這些的預算的編列及支用的數據呢有"},{"start":24496.188,"end":24521.325,"text":"剛剛委員講的那個媒體政策及AU先導會的部分就如同委員所講的是逐年增加但是推展會他除了媒體先導會以後他以外他也有推展會像推展會113年也有1億3000多萬所以加起來媒體政策先導會加推展會大概也有3億多"},{"start":24523.226,"end":24551.807,"text":"所以就業安定基金是特別的收入的基金收入的來源是向屁股的移工的僱主徵收來的然後基金主要是用來促進國民就業嘛但剛才那個省紀長也說了那勞動部竟然每年編譯3億多的預算去做政策的宣導還有業務的推廣而且還被踢爆濫權使用那請問省紀長省紀部近年來就業安定基金各項的經費的支用有沒有進行了解還有沒有規劃查核呢"},{"start":24552.788,"end":24576.096,"text":"有沒有違法還是失職的情勢呢?這些審計部要如何處理呢?有,大概剛剛我也談過他我們收回安基基金他們去衛福規定的租出我們這一兩年收回3億多第二個他這三年短絕了差不多200多億我們也要請勞動部檢討"},{"start":24577.757,"end":24590.226,"text":"第三個他有的在補助那些長年連續都在違動勞動法令的一些補助啊3000多萬我們都有要他勞動部好好檢討"},{"start":24592.592,"end":24618.342,"text":"希望審計部可以為這些所施仁的家庭好好的把關．救安基金的經費的支用．請審計長可以在此承諾．針對安定基金的運用．承諾進行專案的審計．查核近5年來經費的支用的情形．包括過去幾年．是否有沒有作假帳．請審計長後續調查報告．一併提供本席和本院參考．可以嗎"},{"start":24620.016,"end":24640.441,"text":"因為我們有答應在裁委會的時候有答應委員他們希望能夠他希望我們大家委員也希望我們去查核我們所謂的出有一間派人去查大概有查了三年委員現在希望我們查五年我們會照委員的意思再增加兩年"},{"start":24641.834,"end":24644.216,"text":"建保署為了節省藥物的支出每年都會進行藥品的價格的調整根據113年度藥價調整的結果"},{"start":24667.988,"end":24674.411,"text":"遭到砍價的藥品有4000多項導致部分的藥品原本價格就已經非常低了然後再繼續被砍下去的話藥廠來說其實已經不符合成本了然後都停產了而且這會造成民眾用不到藥而且引發民眾的恐慌所以我想請教沈記長國內過去頻傳有缺藥啊然後缺快篩啊缺輸液啊這些事情甚至可能會危及病人的生命的"},{"start":24697.119,"end":24713.653,"text":"然後解決缺藥的危機還要花數倍的價錢由不同的國家來進口然後耗費更多的預算根本性的問題就是在於健保藥價政策不當那請問審計部有沒有進行什麼相關的查核呢"},{"start":24715.063,"end":24742.45,"text":"我們112年有查這個問題大概我們也提出來說這個藥價夠低可能也會造成一些問題所以我們有請健保署好好檢討一下不能造成整個剛剛委員所講的各方面的醫療用品或者藥品都造成切後的問題我們要找到一個合理適當的一個藥價"},{"start":24745.831,"end":24752.42,"text":"那針對健保改革 沈機長你是否同意我們也先從民眾的自我照顧的概念開始宣導呢因為這個政策就是對於藥品轉類然後讓我們自己國人有自我照護的環境透過這些部分已經安全無虞的藥品"},{"start":24763.635,"end":24788.42,"text":"然後像處方藥可以轉類指示用藥．並加速指示用藥退出健保．這樣的話就是不會造成．太多的健保上面的負擔．根據統計我國健保制開辦到現在．已經違法給付指示用藥．已經近30年了．據統計2022年健保扔．給付800多項指示用藥．佔健保給付藥物的比例達．"},{"start":24791.241,"end":24811.991,"text":"27.3%．一級就是說．保給付的藥物中．超過四分之一的項目是違法給付．更耗費了大約20億的公帑．那指示用藥依法．本來就是不屬於建保的給付範圍．但因為建保開辦初期．考量醫生、醫療與民眾就醫的習慣．建保署讓1200餘項的指示藥．暫時繼續以建保給付．"},{"start":24818.234,"end":24838.59,"text":"所以現在還有801項的指示藥品以健保給付那是不是應該要加速指示用藥就是這些讓這些安全無虞的藥品快速退出健保給付節省健保的資源讓健保資源可以合理的配置呢那請問沈記長你有沒有這方面有沒有進行相關的查核呢謝謝委員"},{"start":24840.319,"end":24862.691,"text":"我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣因為這個一千多項一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後還有八百多項我們有叫他請他是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當"},{"start":24863.932,"end":24870.037,"text":"需要我用的藥品大概整體叫他們盤一盤大概這個部分我們今年剛剛1、2年的總結算的審核報告有提出來謝謝委員注意到這個問題"},{"start":24883.624,"end":24904.818,"text":"謝謝,謝謝審計長就是希望能夠加速指示用要快速退出健保給付這樣健保支援才可以更節省對,對,對好,那接下來我再請教審計長就是本席這邊有一個預算使用的問題想要請教你雖然現在還沒有執行但是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核那就是國防部軍備局"},{"start":24906.379,"end":24933.311,"text":"預計在明年114年度就是114年到117年總共編了68億5900萬的預算捐助行政法人中科院與民雄西策那邊開發了軍規無人機的產線預計在115年投產那建置這一個航太機無人機的產業園區據說中科院打算委外管理但"},{"start":24934.171,"end":24955.021,"text":"收了廠房的租金提供廠商的進駐那雖然新建了航太無人機產業的園區的目的當然是要落實國防自主但是推動軍民技術整合的利益是良善的但問題來了就是經本席瞭解這個產業園區的土地產權管理是政府的"},{"start":24955.701,"end":24972.415,"text":"未來招商是經濟部和嘉義縣政府負責．所有收入卻沒有進國庫．全部歸中科院所有級管理．本席雖然我不是預算專家．我只想請教沈記長．這是不是哪裡怪怪的．"},{"start":24973.095,"end":24985.126,"text":"就是政府用公務的預算出錢出力給中科院結果卻是讓中科院自己成立所謂的專案基金自行管理那沈記長你當過主計總處的副處長現在身為沈記長"},{"start":24989.71,"end":25017.71,"text":"那你認為透過公務預算捐助的新建的這些園區所有的收入支出的使用是不是要透過中科院施設基金規避國會監督的方式符合預算法的規定嗎是不是應該要由國防部來成立一個非營業基金或特收基金的方式這樣才正確呢委員的建議很好我向委員報告主要動用"},{"start":25018.616,"end":25039.197,"text":"國家資源我們損基部一定管所以給委員瞭解到這樣的一個情況但是怎麼樣讓這個延期能夠最後能夠發展起來他的效益能夠達成用的什麼方法"},{"start":25041.519,"end":25055.748,"text":"包括國防部、中科院都要好好的還有行政院都要好好的去思考去建立一個不要這麼複雜的制度這剛剛委員聽完以後我都還沒有搞清楚"},{"start":25056.448,"end":25083.574,"text":"不容易搞清楚所以住度要讓它越單純我認為單純有效這樣的一個方法但是我們審計部只要動用因為這裡面我看起來委員提供的資料裡面有監製的國防部用公益算監製的68億我們這個經費也相當的大我們一定會密切的來注意"},{"start":25085.018,"end":25106,"text":"雖然這個中科院民雄航太計無人機產業園區計劃還沒有正式的執行但是本期還是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核避免公務預算捐助的預算跟安定基金一樣遭到濫用還有挪用那國會還沒有辦法監督的問題可以嗎好我們會提出審計意見謝謝"},{"start":25108.783,"end":25122.461,"text":"那接下來國防部114年度有編列了稅出預算4760億元其中對美軍購M1A2T的戰車還有海馬斯火箭的系統還有"},{"start":25123.823,"end":25129.571,"text":"暗製魚叉的這些飛彈系統．還有採購F-16AV戰機．遠距遙控精準的飛彈等武器．總共有705億元．再加上國防部於109年．還有到115年的編列特別預算有2472億元．"},{"start":25142.267,"end":25157.994,"text":"2億元這樣的金額其實是非常的龐大的但是近年來常遭媒體報導交貨延遲至今留存在美方這些問題所以有關國軍對美軍購的執行的情況我想請教沈記長"},{"start":25159.615,"end":25176.984,"text":"國防預算支援有限那國軍歷年編那麼高額的軍購的預算分期按發價書付款給美方目前留在美方的資金有多少然後有多少還沒有交貨的還有國防部有沒有列戰管理呢"},{"start":25178.554,"end":25200.95,"text":"報告員從後面來看這個我們有一定要求他內臟管理這個大概有這樣的目前放在那裡的還沒有交貨的我們查出來匯錢去了還沒有交的有2800多億如果像這個重大經貨這個還會延遲的這裡面包括了這1500多億是還沒有這個是屬於延遲的部分"},{"start":25216.308,"end":25242.566,"text":"謝謝林益君委員詢問也謝謝陳審計長詢答接下來登記第四位吳啟明委員之諮詢以書面提出請審計部書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報在接下來我們請登記第五號林德福委員詢答"},{"start":25253.589,"end":25259.039,"text":"謝謝謝謝大會主席韓院長還有陳審計長還有各列席官也是不是請那個陳審計長麻煩再請陳審計長"},{"start":25268.975,"end":25294.86,"text":"市長你好我想依決算法審計機關在審核各機關或各基金決算應該要注意有無違法施職或不當的情勢那依審計法審計機關對於各機關違背預算或有關法令之不當之處得事前"},{"start":25296.541,"end":25298.564,"text":"拒簽或事後踢除追繳資"},{"start":25302.812,"end":25329.257,"text":"中選會前主委陳櫻前違法失職．花了人民血汗錢931萬元的案子省紀部的同仁已經有提供相關的資料給本席辦公室做說明作為最新的進度那我想本案從109年到現在法院早已經判決而且多次駁回在審"},{"start":25331.523,"end":25354.644,"text":"本席認為說中選會不當支出應該要剔除追繳．並追究陳寅前前主委的責任案子拖延到現在這4年多來省紀部你們是否有信心．可以把陳寅前違法失職．多花人民血汗錢931萬元給追討回來"},{"start":25358.302,"end":25380.627,"text":"報告委員大概第一個這個案子是我們移送監察院監察院後來彈劾後來彈劾法院判了要陳主委要賠20萬陳主委也賠了我們就開始我們也有請中選會開始追究相關人員的責任"},{"start":25382.067,"end":25384.769,"text":"沒有再追下去,那你認為這樣可惜嗎?"},{"start":25404.565,"end":25406.529,"text":"主席長931萬捏這不應該要發的捏對所以我們現在我們已經出公文請"},{"start":25415.27,"end":25439.925,"text":"中選會對因為不管因為大部分他都就是剛如同委員所講的純子緯這個案子都是被退回啦這個是都駁回上訴在審但是都是駁回就是說你這個案子是確定的而且應該要追回他的錢嘛對不對對但是他這樣拖拉我們認為審計部應該要有作為啊"},{"start":25442.026,"end":25465.808,"text":"我們已經棄了公室 要中選會開始檢討陳主委中選會檢討沒有用啦 官官相護啦我認為說 這個一定要有作為今天這是一個案例喔因為你今天要是亂花人民的血換錢 不應該花的結果到最後法院也判決"},{"start":25467.287,"end":25492.623,"text":"就20萬就好了其他都不必了你知道我們損計劃我們現在已經請中選會在追了我跟你講啦那個沈記長你中選會去追不如你們跟監察院甚至於啊該怎麼做你們要有作為啦人民都在看啦931萬不是9萬多人民的血汗錢一分一毫一厘都不能給他浪費這是我們的主責"},{"start":25495.265,"end":25520.293,"text":"我要繼續追所以說沈記長你要把這個事情我相信你很清楚投追到現在那個俗話說身在公門好修行然而部分公務部門的這些勞役不均的問題導致人員流動高那人力之緊公部門首長主管掌握的權力包括烤雞"},{"start":25521.954,"end":25532.139,"text":"沒有辦法全身自愛反而借端借勢想做皇帝那就更容易產生一些騷擾、霸凌等等這些案件"},{"start":25533.712,"end":25553.468,"text":"我相信剛剛很多同仁都在提出說勞動部同仁親身的案子本席也感到遺憾跟不捨後續更爆出就業安定基金使用的不當這些問題今年11月底陳審計長有承諾一個月內你要提出報告請問審計長這個承諾到現在為止有沒有變"},{"start":25557.847,"end":25580.815,"text":"沒有變自我會對外召開記者會正式的做說明我們會把這些報告送到立法院送到立法院好那目前曝光的不當使用項目舉辦客人的演唱會、裝潢、辦公室買咖啡豆等等沈記長還有哪些掌握不當使用項目可以對外說明嗎"},{"start":25581.995,"end":25599.713,"text":"沿著上我們去查了以後發現不合用途的大概有5000多萬我們會收回會收回齁要繼續追啦我認為齁一定齁不能縱放而且齁"},{"start":25600.819,"end":25619.102,"text":"全民都在看看你們到底有沒有作為另外對於就業安定基金不當使用勞動部長洪森漢已經承諾將在明年1月中提出強化的機制那本席是希望說省紀部也要提出就業安定基金"},{"start":25620.063,"end":25638.777,"text":"的使用用途做規範不要再讓就業安定基金變成部會首長的小金庫你的看法呢我們會給勞動部一些意見包括希望能夠公開租用名系還有使用效率這個要公開透明"},{"start":25639.958,"end":25662.426,"text":"那要是上網呢使用上網呢讓大家眾所周知啊對你支不支持支持那你就要求我認為說齁因為過去這段時間啊等於是小金庫那你不能只是勞動部的齁其他只要像這些基金一樣全部都要要求陳記長你的看法呢因為基金有時候齁"},{"start":25663.226,"end":25677.957,"text":"像你台大也是一個作業基金那個就對他來講所以我們有一些像勞動部這一個因為是啟資一些特定的產業我們希望他能夠公布他用到哪裡去了"},{"start":25678.638,"end":25692.174,"text":"陳記長你把這些資料統計以後本席需要一份我認為這個一定要公開透明讓大家眾所周知以遭公信好不好好的那我再請教陳記長這個"},{"start":25695.865,"end":25709.553,"text":"口頭報告資料第4頁提到112年度．查發現財務上違私的案件有35件．其中通知各機關查明處分的有29件．受處分人員有141人次．"},{"start":25712.414,"end":25732.402,"text":"審計部通知．機關查明．處分的部會．有國防部．經濟部．財政部．等等機關．反而勞動部沒有列在裡面．本期是希望審計部進行一一三年．決算審核報告時．勞動部要列為清查的重點．你的看法呢"},{"start":25733.223,"end":25748.401,"text":"這因為發生了這麼大的一個影響這位很大的一個的案子我們會照委員的意思好好地來希望該有的大家該負的責任該怎麼做就怎麼做啦我認為說這些"},{"start":25751.485,"end":25777.157,"text":"大家都在看為什麼因為你繳的那些外勞大家所聘請的每個月固定繳多少然後你用這些基金去就是到處亂花而且為所欲為你說大家怎麼看今天你要是沒有做出給老百姓給人民一個交代我相信啦人民會離政府越來越遠"},{"start":25778.786,"end":25793.765,"text":"你認不認同我同意那接著就是年輕改革議題以陳審計長來討論本席其實我老早就呼籲改革必須要有公平性你認不認同"},{"start":25795.054,"end":25811.294,"text":"任何的事情都要公平正義對那其實改革站在國民黨團的立場我們也都不反對那勞動部前部長何佩珊說政府撥補勞保戶最終支付的責任就是改革"},{"start":25812.556,"end":25834.196,"text":"那撥補就是改革那新任勞動部長洪森漢表示說目前沒有砍勞動勞保幾戶的整個規劃這些話聽在一般退休的這些軍公教他的民眾耳朵裡面真的格外的諷刺那個沈記長"},{"start":25836.052,"end":25854.442,"text":"因為過去我想蔡政府時代你就擔任了那到現在的賴政府高喊改革但卻只有找軍公教來下重手而且污名化軍公教製造階級對立"},{"start":25856.736,"end":25874.912,"text":"那勞保改革卻遲遲沒有任何的動作那民進黨政府改革只做半套因為勞保最快倒大家都清清楚楚那我請問陳審計長對於勞保年金改革的意見是否能認為勞保撥補金額"},{"start":25878.314,"end":25894.444,"text":"相較基金財務缺口．人數有限．建議勞動部重啟年改．並研議具體可行的．長期這個財務撥補計畫．那個．那個沈機長我們112年度有這樣的意見有這樣的意見希望他整個檢討檢討整個"},{"start":25904.635,"end":25929.445,"text":"改革工程整個重啟再研究看看因為他有相當多的潛藏負債第二個也看看他的一些資金的投資過半面的效益的情形我們希望整個盤一盤檢討一下陳記長其實年改當初他是軍公教勞"},{"start":25931.841,"end":25953.436,"text":"你要是說年改以後你要是站在公平而且讓大家能夠接受的一個平等線上我相信大家心無口但是啊他只有針對軍公教而且你通過這個法律照理講法律是不受既往你認不認同"},{"start":25955.018,"end":25971.145,"text":"這一個因為是涉及高度政治不是這個不是高度政治今天不能講高度政治為什麼因為這是有關年改年金改革叫得漫天叫響但是"},{"start":25972.165,"end":25993.798,"text":"最後只有針對性的而且喔講實在話啦變成人家說我已經在公部門我已經服務三四十年我退休以後我當初為什麼要跟政府這個來做這個工作我要去考試我才能夠升任我就是退休以後我有保障"},{"start":25995.509,"end":26021.276,"text":"那既然要保障尤其人到一個年紀年紀越大他的支出越多為什麼他可能年長的要請外勞第二個他可能要年老多病要經常上醫院但是我當初有這樣的規劃當我退休的時候你把我從等於說我一個月可以領六萬你給我砍到三萬六就是年年砍年年扣"},{"start":26022.276,"end":26049.513,"text":"你說這個對這些退休的軍公教公平嗎?那個沈記長你的想法勒?應該整個剛剛講的包括這些勞保的年金改革包括公務員的改革公務的這些改革應該政府應該再盤整一下盤整一下看看整個到底"},{"start":26050.694,"end":26066.66,"text":"應該是怎麼樣的一個整體會對整個國家發展會最好對那些退休的軍公教他們混混不平因為我經常在基層跑很多基層退休的軍公教他們認為說"},{"start":26068.622,"end":26095.469,"text":"為什麼我退休以後請來砍我你當初要是說我要做這項工作的時候你要是說我將來我退休以後年金一定只有60%那我就不選擇這個行業但是我已經做了三四十年我退休以後你再從我退休以後來砍我你要是說我今天立了這個法然後未來你要是要這份工作"},{"start":26096.249,"end":26106.281,"text":"你就要有心理準備未來你大概就是你退休以後最多領六成年年減他心裡有數"},{"start":26107.321,"end":26125.704,"text":"我認為這個才叫公平合理但是你當初開始的時候就說我要軍公教勞實際上只有改軍公教勞還連連撥補我不是說特別說去排斥勞沒有這個意思我是說一定要站在一個"},{"start":26126.525,"end":26155.039,"text":"公平的平等線上你竟然要砍你就是軍公教全部都要做我相信那些軍公教他們沒有話講但是剛好對倒他只有針對性的所以說那些人啦混混不平啦軍公教他認為說當初我要是說真的你要是說給我砍到六成我就不選擇這份工作我還考試過來的勒那個沈記長你有什麼看法"},{"start":26156.597,"end":26166.205,"text":"就尊重委員的一些這樣的一個看法這個也是政府要去看整個長遠的發展該怎麼樣是對國家最適最利的謝謝林德福委員也謝謝沈機長的詢問詢答"},{"start":26178.413,"end":26193.875,"text":"接下來登記第6位賴會員委員之諮詢以書面提出請審計部書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報再接下來我們請登記第7位洪孟楷委員詢問"},{"start":26205.319,"end":26206.485,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳審計長麻煩再請陳審計長"},{"start":26216.039,"end":26240.363,"text":"國務委員好好 沈記長獨立、廉政、專業、創新是我們審計部的宗旨、使命對不對對所以本席15分鐘跟您就教來討論一下首先之前你在委員會裡面有承諾一個月內會針對公部門的霸凌案還有就業安定基金提出調查並且提出報告請教 什麼時候什麼時候會提出來"},{"start":26242.085,"end":26262.615,"text":"當時答應都是一個月,現在年底到了就是一個月,因為當時11月,像那個調查我們已經有初步了,那個霸凌啊,因為既然要做了,要把它做好,我是全國包括中央包括地方啊,我開始整個在盤,因為這個"},{"start":26264.956,"end":26282.663,"text":"整合盤點我們各公部門有霸凌的狀況你是調查去給這一個部門的單位主管說你們部門有沒有霸凌還是針對我們公務員不一樣喔因為過去勞動部第一次調查報告出來讓我們發現說根本就是關關相護啊"},{"start":26283.903,"end":26304.105,"text":"利益良善．沒有直接霸凌．後來被全民華人而且要求之後．才做第二次的調查報告．部長離開之後．調查報告就變成是真相了．第二次調查報告出來之後．就變成是．有直接霸凌．有從屬關係．沒有利益良善．那一樣 沈記長我們最重要"},{"start":26305.168,"end":26331.708,"text":"注度發生這麼大的事情我們要把注度把前者把注度整個把它盤出來哪一個地方切了規範哪一個地方切了注度有沒有訂相關的保障措施我們會就這方面做全盤的瞭解全盤瞭解所以年底以前會把這報告給出來會年底以前國人都聽到了那另外"},{"start":26332.489,"end":26350.146,"text":"不管是外交部、交通部、速發部、衛福部、勞動部有這樣類似的狀況啊尤其我們有看到這個衛福部最近也有一個霸凌案件居然被人家認定是說是要求深蹲福利挺身是鼓勵沒有強迫"},{"start":26351.047,"end":26371.841,"text":"我先請教沈記長你看到這樣的狀況這樣子的樣態算不算霸凌算不算職場霸凌因為這個大概規範不明確所以我們要把整個柱度還有整個把它清楚的理一理所以大概會要求相關部門包括考試院包括人事總署對這方面"},{"start":26372.501,"end":26372.621,"text":"要規範明確"},{"start":26397.541,"end":26417.462,"text":"霸凌的樣態非常多就如同性騷一樣啊真的被受到這樣子的一個待遇如果說真的心聲不舒服親懵懵程度上他可能就構成霸凌如同校園裡面有霸凌事件有什麼以前我們還有看到說有一些這種學生他要求你說站在那邊唱國歌有沒有"},{"start":26418.363,"end":26436.196,"text":"這某種程度上也是霸凌啊或是說現在我們看到說要求你深蹲要求你福利挺身欸好端端的我在職場裡面為什麼要受到這樣子不公平的待遇而且因為上對下的一個關係而要求這樣的狀況這某種程度上就是構成霸凌但衛福部任長不是"},{"start":26437.037,"end":26452.053,"text":"不能造成說有些單位認為是霸凌有些單位不是霸凌那這樣子全國就沒有一致的標準了所以沈記長您的報告裡面出來會把這些霸凌的樣態以及標準給羅列清楚是不是第一個我要求我們的同仁去看國外的狀況第二個"},{"start":26454.715,"end":26471.247,"text":"校園的霸凌我們也要了解因為校園的霸凌也常常會發生我們也要了解校園的霸凌再來我們也會去了解國軍的霸凌因為國軍是高度嚴格管理所以這些霸凌的從這裡來看我們這個公務的一個霸凌我們是寧願從"},{"start":26479.473,"end":26497.246,"text":"把這個標準認定清楚標準我們希望單位裡面去把這些標準訂得合理合情合理合情好我們國人期待我們年底在不到兩個禮拜的時間能夠有一個獨立廉政專業創新的審計報告我們努力再來"},{"start":26501.021,"end":26516.066,"text":"市長一樣想請教就業安定基金很多剛剛林德福委員也請教過了本次也聽到你講是說當然要求應該勞動部要做相關的一個規範嘛我就提一點啦我們的基金管理可以有一國兩制一國多制嗎"},{"start":26517.247,"end":26539.641,"text":"不應該吧 不應該 不應該 同意的附屬單位算足行用是 在這一次的就案令基金裡面有一個很嚴重的狀況就是當他使用了基金去做電子採購即便他12點裡面認定 沈議長之前講是說這個所謂的演唱會叫做政令宣導或是政策宣傳但是實際上就案令基金裡面是沒有這樣規範不過"},{"start":26541.622,"end":26555.762,"text":"至少省紀部這邊已經要處理可是我們要關心的是什麼關心的是說當初在救安定基金使用的時候他其實電子採購並沒有在勞動部的官方網站上面來把這列表給列出來"},{"start":26556.513,"end":26576.903,"text":"他畢竟是說要回歸到工程會裡面的電子採購的大水庫裡面你要特定的標案特定的關鍵字你才有辦法找到但是文化部其他部會有些部會的就相關的基金使用他的電子採購的基金使用項目他就直接羅列在他的官方網站上面"},{"start":26577.603,"end":26591.484,"text":"所以如果說您剛剛講跟林德福委員講是說要求他們應該要公開透明的話是不是能夠先要求所有的部會基金使用只要是電子採購的部分都應該羅列在他們的官方網站您怎麼說"},{"start":26593.034,"end":26613.947,"text":"委員是這樣剛剛我先澄清我在委員會談的那個是我們看到他是科目是出在政令宣導不是我說他那個他用政令宣導來解釋來第二個啊我們剛剛委員那講了我們查到他沒採購"},{"start":26615.319,"end":26629.569,"text":"他直接用那個開口契約他開口契約契約就是文憲、鄭麗仙黨還有一個大包裡面然後其中就只有要求廠商去處理了對不對那這樣子就更難防範了這我們是採購議場我們送檢調、送監察案"},{"start":26633.191,"end":26654.949,"text":"好那再拉回來現在所有的就業安定基金也好或說相關基金的使用因為不只是農業勞動部啊農業部其實也有類似的狀況啊我們之前有講過是說上農產品雞蛋當時雞蛋補助的時候111年農業部就用農產品受進口損害救助基金來撥補上億元"},{"start":26656.73,"end":26672.467,"text":"但是我們去看農產品受進口損害救濟基金的相關規定裡面其實它針對的是關稅調漲與否以及開放進口而遭受損害但國內的雞蛋其實大家知道原因是飼料成本上漲跟禽流感"},{"start":26673.288,"end":26697.456,"text":"所以他其實跟進口的關稅沒有直接的關聯好可是我們現在要求的是說所有的基金的使用各部會不能變成是部長的小金庫所以如果說有動動到所謂的電子採購的部分的話是不是應該要求所有部會他們要羅列在他們官網上面依照採購法的規定這些如果超過一定的規定都要上採購網"},{"start":26698.396,"end":26698.436,"text":"那個委員這個"},{"start":26721.26,"end":26723.141,"text":"我同意委員的意思好謝謝那沈議長我們要要求各部會做吧"},{"start":26739.891,"end":26766.273,"text":"對阿當然什麼時候能夠做到這個我們回去阿我們查核完以後阿剛剛講阿像那個農委會的那些阿我們也都像有一些不合規定的我們也都把它檢列啦這所以給委員知道我們農委會也檢了3億多好沈記長剛剛有特別講到說會要求各部會把相關的各部會用到的電子採購放入在他們官網"},{"start":26767.418,"end":26793.372,"text":"以招公信也讓全民能夠檢視我想預算現在是預算審查會期預算當用則用當審則審我不會要人家說這個要馬跑又要馬不吃草但是如果說不該花的費用我們一毛也不能浪費我想這是我們共同的立場來沈記長既然接下來第三點剛剛本席也特別聽您的報告請您在這次有特別提到說政府的打詐的部分"},{"start":26794.092,"end":26816.696,"text":"但是越打越詐其實也是不爭的事實為什麼因為從詐騙的案件數跟詐騙的金額來講節節升高但其中我記得我之前在委員會的時候也請教過您我這一次再請教您因為這代表是說我們審計單位到底有沒有如實的去查核我們行政部門的一個行政效率因為112年的時候我們的財損是88億"},{"start":26823.24,"end":26851.659,"text":"有37000多件但到113年也就是今年到10月底就已經高達7萬多件並且財損274億三倍之多詐騙的案件是兩倍財損是三倍那去年到今年為什麼突然間有大幅度的成長如果說是經濟成長我當然很拍拍手但不是是詐騙案件的成長是財損案件的成長"},{"start":26853.81,"end":26879.818,"text":"委員非常謝謝我們第一個委員這樣玩以後我們114年我們會專案查核就是查核他這些統計這些事物都有一個真實性透明剛剛那個我看出來政府已經面對他所以他比較公開透明所以之前政府沒面對之前政府不夠公開透明"},{"start":26881.799,"end":26883.26,"text":"現在疫苗版跑出五百多億了"},{"start":26904.554,"end":26925.979,"text":"是啊那500多億我們看前幾年因為詐騙案件不是你我大家共同關心我們生活在2300萬人生活在這塊土地上我們都希望政府拿出具體辦法但是具體辦法先決條件第一就是面對問題面對問題才能解決問題但過去看起來全部都是美化數字造假數字"},{"start":26928.105,"end":26956.605,"text":"說謊的數字啊所以沈記長您剛有提到什麼時候可以提出來檢視過去為什麼過去的數字跟現在的數字天壤之別因為這樣啊 鮑委員我們是每年查完以後會會有一個總結算會有審核報告出來我們是納入這個總結算的審核報告什麼時候 今年年底嗎明年的我們明年的七月底會把總結算審核報告編好"},{"start":26957.526,"end":26986,"text":"沈記長是要再給時間讓國人遺忘這件事情還是怎麼樣現在已經看到了你剛也講了儀表板500多億沈記長去年你今天的決算報告去年是88億今年儀表板是500億差了5倍欸那5倍這樣子的數字不用去了解跟調查嗎要啊對"},{"start":26987.81,"end":27017.108,"text":"那你跟我講說明年7月才能夠做出來那是我的審核報告能不能先讓國人了解一下就像您剛講的我們要調查全國的公部門的霸凌事件能不能先讓國人清楚明白了解到底為什麼會有那麼大的一個落差是真的今年詐騙太猖狂太氾濫還是過去的數字是造假的過去88億是沒有符合現實的委員這樣給我三個億"},{"start":27020.56,"end":27047.293,"text":"三個月對沈議長您說的我希望真的能夠拿出獨立客觀的調查報告最後斑斑有鮮乳農業部農業部這個政策我特別翻了一下我們的決算報告其實我們審計單位已經有提醒農業部因為我們有看到的是說審計部的報告裡面國產鮮乳跟進口鮮乳是最高有差到21塊的價格"},{"start":27048.914,"end":27077.806,"text":"那如果說2025年紐西蘭的進口液態乳﹐零關稅上路的話﹐其實會衝擊影響﹐所以省紀部報告裡面﹐已經要求農業部規劃本土乳業轉型﹐以因應衝擊﹐我給予肯定﹐可是當農業部提出來的一個做法﹐他用113年到116年的﹐養牛產業全面升級轉型計劃﹐裡面的其中又還一年要花15億﹐的公務預算﹐做什麼﹐"},{"start":27078.53,"end":27094.282,"text":"做一個班班有先辱結果我不知道沈機長有沒有看到最近從9月開學了還沒有辦法拿到10月大家先辱之亂11月農業部部長出來講是說如果學校真的沒有辦法配合的話可以不要配合"},{"start":27095.29,"end":27117.526,"text":"甚至我們有一些縣市政府的學校大家直接講啊要班班有鮮乳之前先拜託班班有冰箱吧不然鮮乳來那個天氣熱一下就壞掉天氣冷你要怎麼樣讓學童能夠拿回去這都是一個問題好15億的預算到現在執行了狀況真的是讓大家天怒人怨啊"},{"start":27118.546,"end":27144.408,"text":"這樣子的一個政策錯誤的部分有沒有檢討的必要?我們審計單位能夠怎麼樣來把它導正?我們近期會這樣進行查核瞭解。我們就是希望...近期會查核瞭解?希望做一個事情效益非常重要,配套也非常重要。是!就是當初我們...連審計長你都會提出來就沒想到農業專業教育專業完全不知道沒有配套教育部雙手一攤然後就是把問題丟給地縣的學校老師"},{"start":27145.815,"end":27170.186,"text":"來,什麼時候能夠跟國人有一個具體的瞭解?我們近期會去,大概會給我三個月。好,謝謝洪孟凱委員的詢問,謝謝沈議長的詢答。"},{"start":27173.816,"end":27187.281,"text":"跟我們議會報告跟院會報告現在在我們一場二樓的來賓是來自美國東部跨州所有的州議員訪問團Welcome ladies and gentlemen我們掌聲歡迎"},{"start":27191.185,"end":27204.258,"text":"在接下來我們登記第8位武力華委員之諮詢以書面提出請審計部書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報在接下來我們請登記第9號賴世寶委員詢問"},{"start":27215.861,"end":27222.263,"text":"謝謝韓院長主席以及各位親信有請審計長麻煩再請陳審計長大家午安好審計長我看你今天情形不錯"},{"start":27232.689,"end":27238.193,"text":"今天從開始到現在講一個大家關心的這個就業安定基金你說被不法使用有五千多萬"},{"start":27254.808,"end":27266.622,"text":"要追回請問你怎麼追回不是基金用途不合基金用途請問你怎麼追回因為我們會修正簡略不是不是簡略誰要負責這筆錢呢"},{"start":27268.49,"end":27287.959,"text":"因為他可能啊他有的時候我們來看這個事情啊修辦公室可能有的需要或者是做某一個事情需要我問的重點就是這筆錢是要叫這個勞動部賠把錢列掉還是叫許明春用的人賠"},{"start":27289.159,"end":27303.775,"text":"這一個是這樣這一個因為我們會有的會送檢查案有的會送檢調我們會看檢調檢查案最後的處理結果到底是要個人賠還是要單位賠"},{"start":27304.918,"end":27320.653,"text":"這一個初步我們會先做簡略那就是單位賠嘛他放在那個就業安地基金的他不合他的用途我們簡略那你簡略我們要請目前在請會請勞動部說明"},{"start":27324.38,"end":27350.643,"text":"沈機長你這樣糊弄大家這筆錢等於還是政府出啊被不當使用還是政府出啊我們要一個東西就是他不當使用用的人要賠這個比較重要啊你如果是政府賠就一樣左手右手這個政府那個政府等於都沒人賠啊要人賠誰使用誰不當使用那個人要賠你同意嗎"},{"start":27352.522,"end":27366.166,"text":"這個我們所有的要看財務責任是誰請問你同意嗎個人要賠你不當使用就要賠這一個因為賠不賠這一個要看整個整個損棄花線這個你說當然是這個要我們就要剔除就要減淚"},{"start":27376.489,"end":27398.73,"text":"來 沈機長你講一波簡略的結果還是政府負責嘛所以等於是黑貓偷吃你殺白貓啊老百姓是白貓啊這部會首長這大官他亂用結果你處罰也是處罰老百姓這不公平啊對不對黑貓偷吃你打白貓變這樣啊"},{"start":27401.104,"end":27425.84,"text":"對不對,所以你這個糊弄大家哇,我剛剛看那些新聞,歐外情咧歐外情咧,說這樣審計上要抓這個五千萬結果你仔細一看,都是假因為什麼?還是政府出還是政府出所以啊,你要追到說這個錢誰不當使用那個人要把口袋的錢拿出來賠,這樣才有去賠可以做得到嗎?"},{"start":27427.367,"end":27437.946,"text":"這一個我們要看檢調還有看監察院整個調查結果因為我們沒有調查權你還是做不到來我問你一個東西啊要OLA SEBS"},{"start":27439.184,"end":27464.382,"text":"加拉丁美洲及加勒比海．最高的審計機關．我們國家106年．最後一次林慶榮．審計長．參加了．之後．沒有參加了．這麼重要的國際機構．拉丁美洲跟我們．很多的國家．跟我們有邦交國．而且明年又是巴拉圭．請問你要不要去．你要不要去．"},{"start":27468.247,"end":27487.159,"text":"報告委員這個因為去要有那個我們沒有參加上次前幾年是疫情所以大家就這一方面就停下來再來我們是去我們是發展到OECD歐美國家因為這個最高審計組織這個OnaSense這個是因為我們去了很多年了"},{"start":27493.274,"end":27519.866,"text":"你還不去?我們去了很多年了啊這幾年都沒有啊因為去了很多年了那邊的國家的損濟狀況損濟方法我們都了解了現在我是參加我們請我的同仁到去巴黎去那個歐美去美國去參加OECD的你自己不去嗎?請問你自己不去嗎?"},{"start":27520.846,"end":27529.971,"text":"因為這個還是由同仁阿 年輕的同仁阿來參加為什麼林青龍就去他審計長就去阿 阿代表你不重視喔"},{"start":27531.089,"end":27537.432,"text":"我們現在中華民國能夠走出去的國際組織已經不多了如果能夠讓我們走出去代表我們的國家能夠走出去這是何等重要的事情"},{"start":27557.981,"end":27561.384,"text":"明年你要去聽說只不敢講而已我明年沒有要去都沒有要去確定沒有"},{"start":27584.824,"end":27598.098,"text":"我都沒有要去因為齁我認為年輕讓我們的年輕同仁啊出去的效益大於我沈記長出去沈記長不一樣啊你代表國家你小看自己啊你是怕死喔"},{"start":27600.98,"end":27622.558,"text":"實際上這個國際主持我們106年到現在都沒有參加了欸為什麼不去當然要去啊而且去的話說不定可以用我們國號啊、立法會的簽啊或者台灣都可以用我們的名字去啊為什麼不可以對不對這麼重要的結果我看你哈哈哈哈怎麼會這樣子呢實際上光這一點啊"},{"start":27623.559,"end":27637.494,"text":"我就讓我對你的尊敬就鑑定一半了這陳記長這樣不行了不行了來我們就看你主要的你的第二預備金了我把你統計都只有你16"},{"start":27639.622,"end":27663.803,"text":"第二預備金都在9月底10月開始申請可能有什麼事情不夠了錢不夠了要申請一個第二預備金結果欸戰爭老坑毛坑不拉屎欸要了一大堆錢不用來來來我們看喔從110年到112年最嚴重的是哪個單位啊文化部的台灣美術館"},{"start":27666.344,"end":27688.89,"text":"99.47%他要了100塊呀99塊不用耶再來第二個單位內政部預政署99.6%剩下的錢了再來法務部行政執政署剩了96%再來行政院啊行政院今天做龍太婆來啊行政院要一堆錢結果94%沒用再來主計總署喔"},{"start":27693.411,"end":27699.757,"text":"要了一堆錢92%沒有用 審計長你要查查看嗎?這個亂 口口咧 聽我講完 審計等於是第二預備金啊 這個錢我要 那個錢我要 落地落地啊 燒燒啊都沒用"},{"start":27709.006,"end":27723.198,"text":"阿怎麼會這個樣子呢?怎麼會這個樣子呢?動之第2位北京就是經費不敷對啊!可是他這經費還保留下來那是顯然這個有那個我們會給行政院注意到這個事情你們要不要查?會查!"},{"start":27726.58,"end":27750.245,"text":"因為這個我們的,謝謝委員,這個我們的發現一年差不多有兩、動租完以後有兩三億的保留每年都有兩三億的就是說,這幾個單位,第1會期是救命的前提這幾個單位搶錢啦,放在地上都沒用你看,你看喔,行政院,左龍泰帶頭對不對,他上一屆不是左龍泰啦"},{"start":27752.246,"end":27767.858,"text":"陳、陳、陳什麼的,陳建仁,帶頭做不好的示範啊,要了100塊,只用了不到6塊,對不對,剩94天多,你看,文化部,要了100塊,用不到1塊錢,用不到1塊錢,法務部也是這樣,要100塊,用了4塊,不到4塊錢,"},{"start":27775.329,"end":27777.45,"text":"委員講得很好,我們會要求行政院改善"},{"start":27795.728,"end":27823.115,"text":"要叫行政院 這行政院做得不好嘛行政院做得不好嘛 對不對也不是說 那個應該 住度 法律的住度啊就是說 監衛 凍住第二杯先第一條 第一款就是監衛不服使用的對啊 這你不夠錢了你才用啊還凍住了以後還保了 這個這個現象不正常什麼時候可以完成調查跟糾正 什麼時候一個月內"},{"start":27824.555,"end":27852.97,"text":"兩個禮拜可以啦一個月那麼好啊因為要我現在啊委員要我調查要我審計的非常的多啊所以喔那我再看一個很重要很重要的題目喔來來來我看喔你是管審計長管錢怎麼使用喔結果我們這幾年了喔政府都說不可以給地方政府喔財化法喔你們要錢喔喔怎麼樣公開那個廢修署啊"},{"start":27853.78,"end":27861.185,"text":"你看喔2021年﹐稅金剩餘2979億快要3000億喔2022年﹐4993億快要5000億2023年﹐2790億快要3000億可見這幾年我還查2020、2019每一年的稅金剩餘都是2500到5000億可見的什麼意思我都給你了封好了 預算都通過了"},{"start":27883.96,"end":27905.825,"text":"你中央自信不完．把這個錢．下來．垂直分配．給地方政府．不是好歸好歸．根本這什麼歐北亂共．什麼哎呦不得了喔．這個才挖挖一分的垂直分配．中央沒有錢了．國防沒有錢了．這樣胡說八道．中央每年省的錢．稅計剩餘．就剩了2500到5000億之多．"},{"start":27910.227,"end":27920.086,"text":"所以這些錢垂直分配給地方政府安否合適合適安否合適合適來沈機長我這樣的講話有沒有錯你告訴我有沒有錯"},{"start":27922.923,"end":27950.637,"text":"中央這幾年都有稅金剩餘但是地方我們查的地方112年度它的統計起來加起來也有560億的剩餘所以我們的財政在逐步改善中都會很好沒有回到問題啊我問你說中央都這幾年來有2500億到5000億用不完用不完用不完那就給地方政府用"},{"start":27951.617,"end":27980.676,"text":"就給地方政府用啊才華娃就是這樣的概念本席提出來3000億給地方政府所以垂直分配中央給地方從這個表更能夠來強化It's about the timeIt's about the time中央你要allocation這些resources給我們的local government"},{"start":27981.346,"end":27993.003,"text":"這個很重要才化法要修錢在這裡錢在那裡在這裡不是亂講一通什麼這個就沒有錢了國外沒有錢每年都剩了2500億到5000億你看2022年剩了快5000億了"},{"start":27998.325,"end":28011.367,"text":"錢用不完啦錢用不完啦所以才劃滑垂直分配中央給地方2500億到5000億天經地義天公地道你說對不對"},{"start":28014.333,"end":28035.713,"text":"財務要考量中央還有地方的財政狀況剛剛講中央現在不錯地方也不錯但是在劃分的時候錢和數目也要一起考量有時候一個龍水路的問題它會跑到中央來"},{"start":28036.774,"end":28050.601,"text":"沈記長我問你都紮紮實實的問題啊你回答我都是天馬行空啊都歐北這樣歐陵勢動啊勢戰勢戰不能這樣子啦沈記長最後一題啊我們來看喔政府的潛在負債啊你看多嚴重啊勞保12兆我還客氣的救治的軍工教3.2兆"},{"start":28062.935,"end":28090.158,"text":"公務人員退伍基金2.9兆、公保700多億、軍保200多億、 農保1.2兆、中央地方政府19.2兆、中央都沒有錢了, 哪裡有錢來補助臺電啊?臺電2000億砍殺天津地, 而且臺電的經濟部長還居然說什麼?ㄟ柏齊萬斤啊,我可以去借錢!我可以借錢!你是不是贊成2000億不要給他?"},{"start":28091.203,"end":28116.228,"text":"他有幫他去借錢了他借很多錢了他說他去借錢了他已經借很多錢了他借再多不愁再多不借因為他大家都就是能源對國家相當重要大家以國家整體為念今天我問你因為我時間快到了是不是因為我們錯誤的人權政策讓我們台電虧損雷電對吧這句話"},{"start":28119.912,"end":28120.352,"text":"謝謝賴氏寶維的詢問也謝謝陳審計長的詢答"},{"start":28151.328,"end":28169.401,"text":"法院會議112年度中央政府總決算審核報告案之諮詢已詢答完畢我們非常感謝陳審計長及審計部所有列席的官員進行報告答詢我們現在做以下決定一、中華民國112年度中央政府總決算及"},{"start":28170.061,"end":28194.504,"text":"附屬單位決算．一、終計表審核報告案．交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查．二、將各委員會發言記錄．及書面諮詢含送審計部．請就未答覆部分予以書面答覆．三、以刊登之書面諮詢．尚未登載公報者．一律補刊．"},{"start":28195.967,"end":28215.473,"text":"第二、繼續處理復議案．現有本院民進黨黨團．針對第12次會議報告事項．第13案．及第35案之決定．提出復議案．請公決案．我們做以下決定．令定期處理報告院會本次會議進行到此為止先來散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}