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這個裡面我有特別提到了因為你現在的數位物件利用的權利金沒有像預期且呈現下滑的一個趨勢所以還是一句話我這邊在我的提案表裡面寫得非常清楚了"},{"start":1996.992,"end":2018.763,"text":" ️所以光是數字我們條例的非常的清楚,所以還是希望迎接故宮百年的這個願慶,權利基金可以增加,所以呢我們也希望能夠增加這個該項的一個預算,那這個部分裡面都是因應故宮百年我們希望能夠做到的,然後最後在第9案,我們到第10案嘛,第9案其實也是一樣,你剩餘繳庫的編列預算是6000,但是呢,"},{"start":2022.125,"end":2047.09,"text":"議員﹗"},{"start":2047.17,"end":2048.291,"text":"謝謝柯正委員還有沒有哪位委員"},{"start":2065.368,"end":2091.326,"text":"陳秀寶委員請我幫他談一下第6案他覺得故宮的門票預算還沒有回到過去的標準目前大家都很關心參觀人次的狀況故宮已經百年運慶都有規劃國際交流也應該要對自己的規劃有信心所以他希望能夠增列500萬他很堅持希望給故宮一個自我期許"},{"start":2098.049,"end":2104.351,"text":"一到六案我們來處理七到八案然後九到十案那在一到六案的部分那個規費的收入使用規費收入的場地設施使用費的這個部分"},{"start":2118.217,"end":2118.237,"text":" ﹝討論中﹞"},{"start":2134.189,"end":2159.548,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":2162.289,"end":2179.997,"text":"加油啊我們增列3000多萬我都覺得對你們很不好意思你知道嗎因為真的要對這個故宮很有信心那這樣也符合陳秀寶委員他至少要增列500萬的案子好以上那一到一這邊就是增列3303萬9千元對對415千415"},{"start":2189.316,"end":2216.158,"text":"對,好。接下來我們處理第七、第八案一併處理喔。那個柯志恩委員有提到增列一千萬,那這個院長有沒有可以接受吧?柯委員說五百萬就好了。誰說五百萬?那郭忠朗,我這邊可以有五百萬。好,那我們就給五百萬,增列五百萬,第七案、第八案。那第九案、第十案,那柯志恩委員還是對你們非常有信心,所以呢增列三千萬,院長有沒有意見?"},{"start":2224.356,"end":2242.467,"text":"現在那個大家去年也增略了那今年也增略可是每次增略的時候都成本都沒有增加所以賣水餃也要麵粉所以他相對他要那個盡力才真的是賺錢不是說那個賺了多少錢不算成本所以能不能不要那麼高"},{"start":2243.83,"end":2264.12,"text":"院長你覺得多少你可以接受?國委員說五百吧。現在是科委員喔?對啊,國委員說五百。那國委員不在,科委員在?原來一千啦,一千啦。好,那我們就在第九案、第十案,柯市政委員跟葛文勛委員提案,我們增列一千萬。好。"},{"start":2268.041,"end":2284.629,"text":"接下來我們來審查最初的部分案由是案別是11案到第16案羅廷偉委員好謝謝召委我是第12案我們先來講"},{"start":2288.888,"end":2316.617,"text":"我想我在質詢中也非常關切我們這個兩館的典藏人員在國保未經保護的情況之下直接在旁邊簽收典交控制國保的損害當時這個新聞大家都大概都知道我想這個應該要嚴格把關的一個作業流程及管理的措施典藏人員的教育訓練嚴重不足另外故宮在這個116年6月的時候就傳出疑似遭駭客入侵有未經授權的這個圖檔"},{"start":2317.637,"end":2317.757,"text":"第16案"},{"start":2346.169,"end":2371.12,"text":"我想要特別來講一下我們從每一年度的這個機關預算的這個預算書裡面看到114年有編列這個媒體政策及業務宣導費是994萬但是我們把以往的這個故宮所提供的資料看到那個故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位的預算中有一個推展費它在110年是真的沒有編列喔"},{"start":2371.5,"end":2400.001,"text":"一百一十一年便列291一百一十二是420一百一十三是480一百一十四是560往後卻是連年暴增我們可以看到這個他的這個媒體政策宣導的一個執行情形表可以發現一百一十年的時候是用公務預算去支應為什麼一百一十年可以用公務預算到一百一十四年到一百一十一年這一個過程當中卻要變成用基金來支應所以我覺得"},{"start":2400.882,"end":2419.233,"text":"基金預算書卻沒有見到所謂的這個媒體宣傳的費用。我覺得這個部分我是有很大的疑議,所以我覺得應該全書凍結。以上。好,還有沒有哪一個委員?沒有沒有,主席就開始處理。那我們在這案當中請那個,還有,來,葛如君委員。"},{"start":2421.889,"end":2443.326,"text":"好,本席這邊想要提的是第15案那關於故宮的派員出國的計畫114年編列了297.5萬預計要到英國、日本、韓國、馬來西亞、法國等地那說真的我想博物館之間的往來、交流、出國考察計畫相當正常"},{"start":2444.187,"end":2469.488,"text":"但是出國其實也是希望說官員可以去爭廣見聞、見賢思緒以故宮12月10日剛上傳的歐洲考察報告為例當中有提到這個開放式的庫房這個博伊曼斯範博寧恩博物館採用開放式的庫房15萬件當中有7萬件就在目光可及之處"},{"start":2471.109,"end":2498.094,"text":"觀眾可以透過大片玻璃看見典藏的這個文物跟物件那我們的文物的展示率其實我們之前就質詢的時候就提到了那器物類6.5%書畫類2.6%那圖書文獻類0.1%那全部各類文物展示率都不到10%那我們之前質詢的時候有提到開放庫房的案例是不是可以比較辦理那尤其明年要百年願慶"},{"start":2499.594,"end":2527.336,"text":"那考察報告也有提到英國國家藝廊正在辦200週年的願慶這個人家拍攝200部影片介紹200幅畫作還邀請200位社群媒體一起宣傳200週年的慶典那同時國家藝廊還全新的推出這個大規模的虛擬藝廊讓觀眾可以在官網上瀏覽我們一直在這個質詢的時候都跟這個相關的這個議題上面一直都有在追"},{"start":2528.422,"end":2545.794,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":2546.034,"end":2553.096,"text":"議員：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位"},{"start":2575.521,"end":2587.638,"text":"於凍結以利追蹤出口考察的成效。謝謝。好,謝謝。還有沒有哪位委員有意見?如果沒有的話主席會來處理喔。那在這個部分我先請故宮來做一個回答。"},{"start":2592.366,"end":2592.506,"text":"發言委員："},{"start":2615.522,"end":2632.778,"text":"議案書之外的話,同仁出國的話之前都要有一個審查,就是瞭解他的那個工作交代,然後他最後的成果報告,這個部分我們都會檢視,不是出去瀏覽瀏覽看看而已。那另外的話就是文創商品的話,就是"},{"start":2634.079,"end":2658.914,"text":"基本上來講故宮有很多長銷的商品這些東西都一直走那會特別講造成有人誤解就是說那個一般來講所謂的百年紀念幣、紀念酒、紀念郵票我們都會做但其他的商品我們都還是會一樣開發但是那個商品的話是略為長銷的商品那紀念的品牌的話因為它有一點短銷的意味所以這個部分跟委員說你"},{"start":2662.247,"end":2681.884,"text":"好,那我們一樣就是這一幕來處理喔那因為大家的這個每一個案子金額不一喔那這個故宮那個院長這邊這一幕有沒有各位委員有沒有建議沒關係啊,就整幕就好了對,整幕就可以"},{"start":2693.51,"end":2706.912,"text":"好,那我們先處理12、13案,業務費用。那業務費的部分的話,那個有羅廷薇委員跟洪孟楷委員,那你們有沒有想要再給故宮一點機會?"},{"start":2709.319,"end":2736.847,"text":"來才是院長可以剛剛他也沒回答我啊喔來來來回答一下上次出包那兩件事情你要回答一下那個部分基本上來講的話當然我也不能講說都是我上任之前啦可是這個部分的話我們已經把所有的那個文物的維護的安全作業辦法都已經完成確定而且也出版了也送到委辦的辦公室那另外有一個就是說未來我們布卸展包括那個"},{"start":2737.927,"end":2765.162,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":2765.162,"end":2765.282,"text":"謝謝。 那個羅廷偉委員?"},{"start":2781.921,"end":2797.836,"text":"好,我覺得10萬塊很合理啊,請你素面報告讓我們了解一下,再來解凍。好,那這樣子,那個因為,還有洪峰還有人,如果這個12萬、13萬我們都是業務費用,我們就是並按動10萬塊,OK嗎?"},{"start":2805.095,"end":2822.225,"text":"來請洪孟楷委員主席你怎麼把14案郭益勤委員的案子給漏掉了他業務費用其實郭益勤委員的案跟我的都是國外旅費啊那郭益勤委員他要動一百萬欸我們怎麼可以讓民進黨執政黨的委員要動一百萬這個案子可以忽略呢"},{"start":2823.165,"end":2840.638,"text":"所以我覺得這樣子還是要不要支持,因為執政黨的委員那麼難得的提出來,然後提出來之後都還沒有到場。不過我覺得說沒到場也沒關係,我們應該要支持啊。你看范雲文馬上要急著要護航了。所以,開玩笑啦。好啦好啦好啦,來啦來啦,講實在話啦。"},{"start":2846.813,"end":2873.371,"text":"我覺得還是一樣教育及文化委員會的委員過去到現在大家都很平和但是我必須很先正告一下執政黨的委員大家審查預算的時候來來去去其實也是正常但是我覺得大家都有提案各自為各自的提案來負責有些時候譬如說我自己的提案已經說明完了或者是故宮或是其他單位已經有私下來做一個說明了我想各辦公室都一樣"},{"start":2874.071,"end":2902.667,"text":"那能夠接受的我們都合理的接受因為這是平和的我今天不是為我個人講話我是為我們其他委員講話因為有一些委員真的特別被針對性尤其是執政黨委員拍了照早上一整天都在這邊審預算然後結果中途因為有其他的公務去處理就被執政黨委員拍了照然後上傳說沒來我覺得這個事情絕對不是一個正向的處理的方式"},{"start":2903.507,"end":2904.188,"text":"好 我的十三案"},{"start":2930.134,"end":2958.969,"text":"故宮有跟我來做說明其實我也覺得說博物館的這種互相的交流確實也是正常也應該如果說要館跟館之間館際的這個正常的交流我覺得還是要做可是在這一次裡面我們看到就如同剛剛一開始柯志恩委員有講到明年是我們故宮百年我們今年7月的時候也陪同昭偉有去捷克做國會外交的時候也特別去看了一下國會捷克的國家博物館"},{"start":2959.309,"end":2975.009,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":2975.638,"end":3002.31,"text":"上一次崔玉白在第一次出國什麼時候2014年10年前他是去日本是東京博物館而且當時有獲得日本也是高規格的對待並且當時的講法叫做請管相出啊等於是我們故宮拿出最好的展品去日本東京做交流日本東京也拿出最好的展品之後回訪來做我們的一個交流"},{"start":3002.99,"end":3018.688,"text":"我請教一下在這一次我們特別針對捷克不管捷克過去到現在很多議題上面給我們國家的一個支持那但是這一次我們展完之後捷克那邊方有沒有什麼樣的一個互相的一個平等對等的一個交流"},{"start":3019.269,"end":3019.289,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":3037.805,"end":3038.145,"text":"謝謝孟凱,我們請院長回答"},{"start":3058.234,"end":3075.725,"text":"議員﹚議長﹚"},{"start":3076.681,"end":3100.469,"text":" ﻻ﹏"},{"start":3100.889,"end":3120.766,"text":"請教院長,因為郭玉琦委員因為他現在不在還沒有來,那他有提案凍結100萬,你們有跟他溝通過了嗎?有到他辦公室溝通嗎?但是看起來他也沒有改變嘛,所以我們可能還是要尊重這個提案。委員那時候他說到現場討論,所以他沒有接受嘛。因為現在郭玉琦委員不在現場,所以發言委員。"},{"start":3123.188,"end":3123.448,"text":"社會自由公平"},{"start":3145.157,"end":3160.933,"text":"好 那當然就是社會自由公平那本黨委員不是沒來而是因為選罷法那天禮拜一的狀況那我本黨的立場是認為那天會議無效因為民進黨立委全部被排除沒有辦法參與那個選罷法初委員會的討論他們是因為這樣所以委託我"},{"start":3164.156,"end":3185.592,"text":" ︎今天就是在就是幫他們的議案因為各辦公室都有溝通過所以關於委員的意思是並動那像剛剛那個陳秀華委員就特別替我幫他堅持我就幫他表達堅持其他如果沒有特別堅持的部分那我們的意思就是跟大家一起整體並動一百萬"},{"start":3187.173,"end":3212.536,"text":"所以並不需要第12、13、14動100啦就是這整項就是並動100萬那我想這是我幫郭議員表達立場謝謝好謝謝范議員委員但是我們今天是教育文化委員會在審查我們的委員其實還是應該都要在這裡來審查會比較好一點那我們可以待會發言其實是表達這個意見但是不能是做成他的意志上的決定"},{"start":3213.397,"end":3234.214,"text":"所以我想這個案子大家有沒有什麼想法來尊重大家討論那個也有提案的那個孟凱委員跟庭委委員還是要尊重郭育群委員對不起我在處理孟凱委員有沒有想法或者是庭委這一案"},{"start":3236.638,"end":3261.607,"text":"那我們這樣子好了。剛剛發言委員不是就說要併動嗎?那既然發言委員要併動的話。不是這整項併動一百萬啊,整項啊。整項?什麼意思?因為我們過去民進黨委員的精神,那如果要單項的話就十萬。那如果要整項的話就要支持吳佩奕委員喔,併動一千,凍結一千萬啊。對啊。沒有整項大家可以討論啊,因為過去他喊一千萬大家現場都會讓步嘛。就那個姿勢,姿勢還沒有普通的。讓步不就是。阿家秋。來到現場來啊。"},{"start":3265.778,"end":3292.851,"text":"我剛剛已經講了大家委託我幫忙就是說現場一起處理就是如果單項的話顧玉琴委員就是他這邊可以凍結10萬如果整項的話我想我們現在可以在一起來討論啊來 廷偉委員好 那我支持就整項凍啦齁 那我支持吳佩奕委員的提案凍結1000萬好 謝謝 那廷偉委員提支持吳佩奕委員的1000萬那孟凱委員有沒有"},{"start":3293.993,"end":3297.4,"text":"也支持吳佩儀委員的一千萬。那我們其他的委員呢?"},{"start":3299.07,"end":3326.51,"text":"議員﹚議員﹚"},{"start":3326.73,"end":3327.031,"text":"議會主管委員會主席"},{"start":3342.634,"end":3370.201,"text":"那個推展會的話基金是賺錢的宣傳然後那個本預算的話是業務的宣傳一個是為了為了商業推動的宣傳活動包括參加參加那個商展禮展什麼這個這部分的經會那另外的話本預算的話是做比如說那個podcast另外這種東西並不是說去去登廣告做宣傳都是有業務在執行我有把它動掉的話那我年"},{"start":3371.081,"end":3371.101,"text":" ﹝廣告聲﹞"},{"start":3386.314,"end":3402.829,"text":"好的,那個院長我聽到你的解釋了齁我目前會再來查證那沒關係我現在可以尊重你齁那這個部分我可以退讓但是呢所以我就說我沒有要全數凍結在這個部分上所以基於剛剛有提到整項來做處理所以我是支持吳佩奕委員所提案的一千萬"},{"start":3404.94,"end":3427.5,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":3429.269,"end":3451.876,"text":"那個媒體及政策業務宣導有困難所以我沒有動那個阿現在是整項阿整項是32億994萬全數凍結沒關係那個聽委員委員來處理好了好不好我想這樣子喔就是其實故宮的同仁其實也是真的大家也很認真啦但是其實有很多應該要檢討改善的地方當然委員隊有把它提出來我想最初的部分我們就這樣啦整個凍結500萬好了好不好"},{"start":3463.101,"end":3469.005,"text":"委員長 其實 我覺得 院長 你拉回來看一下啦 我們12案到16案都是針對個別的"},{"start":3481.573,"end":3481.593,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":3498.336,"end":3499.437,"text":"院長,您如果要堅持1000萬,您這裡可以接受嗎?"},{"start":3521.327,"end":3524.888,"text":"接下來我們來審第一幕一般行政17案到29案來"},{"start":3547.475,"end":3549.842,"text":"我們一樣先正經順序過去,柯執政委員。"},{"start":3551.604,"end":3580.595,"text":"好我先看一下我是21、25跟29那我21因為是跟在25跟29就可以來做一個處理所以我21案先撤因為是基本行政工作維持我21要先撤這跟故宮溝通過但是比較重要就是在25案是有關業務費水電費的部分你會看到出來這個水電費已經增加的非常非常的多那故宮來做一個解釋可能你們要增加一些什麼管什麼之類的所以呢"},{"start":3581.015,"end":3608.439,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":3609.199,"end":3630.049,"text":"我本來是寫簡列500啦那故宮有做一個解釋所以到底要簡列多少我們到時候可以跟其他委員共同來做討論因為我剛剛看到了在業務費部分裡面其他委員都還有一些的想法那我今天要表達是有關第29案我覺得29案我要請所有的委員跟我一起來關注一下因為29案你現在故宮所有的事情"},{"start":3630.769,"end":3630.809,"text":" ﹝請勿模仿﹞"},{"start":3647.429,"end":3671.546,"text":"而且呢等一下我們可能會提到這南院更是大量的使用這個勞務承攬的人力那你要是萬一發生等一下會有委員提出來你萬一發生了一些磕口霸凌的狀況你怎麼樣來申述我們一案歸一案喔我這邊要特別提出來就是同樣是故宮但是是同工不同仇喔你看你北部我是根據你的預算數來算北院的空調管理人員是17人"},{"start":3672.927,"end":3687.944,"text":"議員："},{"start":3687.944,"end":3704.053,"text":" ︎ ︎ ︎"},{"start":3704.473,"end":3713.7,"text":"兩院還是一樣有差距還是一樣有差距我覺得這個部分裡面呢那你給我一個新的數據有差距但是所以我才說你給我的數據到底是正確還是不正確而且我還是要老實在講請問一下南北院的公務人員有差距嗎你們公務人員的薪資有差距嗎"},{"start":3723.067,"end":3723.647,"text":" 對不对?"},{"start":3723.647,"end":3751.233,"text":"那你如果沒有差距的話南北你光是民間如果一個月差五千一個月如果差五千塊光是民間南北一個月差五千一年就差六萬你故宮比六萬還要多你覺得你公務人可以這樣帶頭做起嗎?所以我覺得這個部分裡面故宮要給個交代所以呢我剛剛說這個數字是看預算書所以我提出九十一有本有據你提一個數據來告訴我然後呢你的勞務成人的人力又通常這麼低"},{"start":3752.553,"end":3752.874,"text":"謝謝柯政委員。下一位。"},{"start":3766.96,"end":3788.642,"text":"蘿婷薇委員我是第20案,簡單來講就是我們現在看到庫房人力的配置真的讓我們很擔憂現在包括技工才有50個人所負責點管的多達70萬件文物每人平均要管14000多件,龐大的工作量我覺得超出他們一個個人可以負荷的一個人力"},{"start":3789.102,"end":3809.432,"text":"那我們可以看到民國97年開始至111年101年他們就整整耗時了三年七個月去點這相關的故宮文物顯見所有的人力配置工作模式雖然能夠完成但是大規模的盤點造成的時間配置我覺得是有一個很大的考驗"},{"start":3809.932,"end":3837.486,"text":"那故宮的典藏我們大概每20年要減少至少要有一次全面的盤點我希望至少未來在這個現行的人力應該要有所調整保障他們的工作有效之外還能夠分配勞力是有一個比較公平的那是不是能夠增加專業的人力編制或者是導入科技輔助工具這個部分是我給予的一個期許目前凍結是100萬希望他們能夠有一個書面報告才可以使得凍結"},{"start":3839.383,"end":3856.175,"text":"好,謝謝聽委還有沒有哪位委員范芸委員下一位葛如君委員我是先講第22案這是那個陳秀寶委員請我幫他發言因為他是針對故宮的職場霸凌那你們有來說明但他覺得說明的時候"},{"start":3857.155,"end":3884.617,"text":"就是說明人員好像覺得要等人事總處有新的通盤規劃那因為陳秀寶委員認為你們目前的方法是把性騷擾跟霸凌處理一併處理那沒有明定調查小組跟評議會的組成那這樣其實並不好其實應該要分開處理然後明定調查小組跟評議會的組成那所以希望故宮這個檢討那他是堅持一定要動但是樹木的話他可以跟大家一起並動"},{"start":3885.938,"end":3906.781,"text":"這是他的第22案。另外吳佩儀委員的是第17案。他是關於故宮在服裝的部分,男院的部分。你們表達說經費允許廠商只能提供女性服務人員、裙裝等等。所以明年才能夠製作褲裝或裙裝供其選擇。"},{"start":3907.682,"end":3907.702,"text":"閱讀者﹖"},{"start":3925.964,"end":3954.105,"text":"謝謝主席本席在第一幕一般行政這邊有兩個提案第一個是第19案是關於人事費故宮的法定員額是351人那我們在過去的幾次質詢當中針對了很多工作項目還有人力的部分提出詢問包含這個文物修復等等那我們得到的這個官員的答覆呢經常都會說人力不足"},{"start":3955.026,"end":3973.182,"text":"但是呢實情是什麼?實情是故宮法定約351人到目前為止實際員額實際聘用的員額只有303人也就是還有48個員額還沒有補滿我必須說這些資料都是我們自己去跟人事行政總署要來的我們才得到這些資訊"},{"start":3975.003,"end":3994.308,"text":"最後故宮也補了一些相關的資訊說確實是這樣根據故宮提供資料扣除機要留職停薪考試缺以後當然你們也做了一些資訊的修補說還有辦理零補作業有18人請問這18個人在114年度到底能不能全數補滿這18位另外你們也提出說還有15個人正在規劃中"},{"start":4004.131,"end":4022.832,"text":"請問正在規劃中是什麼意思?要規劃到什麼時候?規劃完了什麼時候可以聘用完成?本席在後面的第88案也有提到為什麼我們現在在這一案要來講人力編制的問題是因為我們非常關注科技的時代其實歷史只有一次文物如果出問題了出狀況了"},{"start":4024.534,"end":4039.327,"text":" ﹗其實未來要做一個整體的修復,成本、時間、耗能會越來越高。所以我們應該及早去編制所謂的修復人力。而目前故宮修復人力竟然只有12個人,要負責70萬件文物的典藏,遠遠不足。"},{"start":4041.289,"end":4066.281,"text":"那故宮這邊有回覆我們說會再向行政院爭取11個修復員額但是事實擺在眼前現實的法定員額沒有補滿行政院幾乎不可能讓故宮再增加員額嘛 對不對所以是不是可以研議讓這48個員額裡面有部分就先趕快調整為修復人力讓現在本來就已經非常稀缺的修復人力馬上獲得增補"},{"start":4067.501,"end":4078.784,"text":"另外,根據故宮有回覆,113年度的人事預算費用有高達5億。到了113年的11月底,執行數還剩下5600多萬是沒有執行的,這個執行率是90%。"},{"start":4089.306,"end":4097.73,"text":"所以也就是有10%是沒有執行的那主要是因為缺額沒有補滿的緣故所以預算上面我們的評估是這樣我們也不是隨便亂凍結而是說假如故宮沒有辦法承諾114年度可以將48個缺額補滿的話本席認為人事費應該要予以凍結我們其實下手也很輕"},{"start":4107.955,"end":4107.995,"text":" ﹝語言中﹞"},{"start":4129.443,"end":4142.353,"text":" ﹗台電的整體漲幅是14.5%,但是我不確定院長有沒有瞭解到故宮114年度的水電費跟113年度相比竟然增加55%,55.41%,這個漲幅跟台電電價的漲幅相比落差實在有點太大了。"},{"start":4149.458,"end":4164.126,"text":"議長,因為我是阿宅,我對電費突然暴漲,我都非常關心。到底是你裡面裝了什麼AI超級電腦,還是在做什麼樣的特別的運算?這個我覺得院長應該要仔細說明,不然我們全世界台灣都在那邊省電,那個該關燈的關燈,結果故宮的電費在暴漲,這很奇怪。"},{"start":4169.289,"end":4196.417,"text":"那尤其呢我想這個這個整個電力的運作的穩定度故宮有那麼多的文物要做恆溫、恆濕這個相關的電力你們有沒有研議說要去做一些這個所謂的備存等於是說你不要用在高尖峰的時段你其實不要用高尖峰的電價你可以用其他的機制用備存的電力現在有很多的技術可以做到這件事這也是綠能減碳的一種做法"},{"start":4196.817,"end":4198.518,"text":"接下來我們有請吳淳澄委員下一位黃孟海委員"},{"start":4228.845,"end":4231.81,"text":"台灣明年就進入超高齡社會"},{"start":4234.659,"end":4260.44,"text":"故宮是高齡者很喜歡去的這個文化的場域的一個場所但是現在我們故宮對這個族群每年有辦樂齡主題樂就稱為樂齡但是我很多的朋友都告訴我你只要用樂齡兩個字我就不想去了"},{"start":4261.781,"end":4272.765,"text":"我不曉得各位,樂齡是指55,你們就講說教育部稱為55歲以上,稱為樂齡。稱為樂齡。那你知道55歲現在有多少人?有790萬人。我不曉得在座有沒有,如果你55歲以上被稱為樂齡你開不開心啊?那現在當然我在推動壯世代。現在這個"},{"start":4287.813,"end":4307.478,"text":"教育部也響應了從明年1月份開始推動壯世代第三人生大學開始試辦,開始針對55歲以上的進入大學而且是有學歷的,積極在改變我們大學的學制。"},{"start":4308.118,"end":4322.454,"text":"那故宮呢既然作為一個壯世代非常喜歡去的一個場域是不是可以以後舉辦的可不可以更改為叫做壯世代主題樂相關的這個活動因為呢"},{"start":4327.422,"end":4344.467,"text":"現在各部會也在配合辦理我們行政院有壯世代跨部會小組有14個部會加入包括比較大場域的像今年的諮詢月11月份的時候諮詢月"},{"start":4346.067,"end":4363.268,"text":"議員．議員"},{"start":4363.268,"end":4363.288,"text":"好﹖"},{"start":4383.262,"end":4410.337,"text":"我要求要改變這個然後凍結3000好 謝謝那下一位我們有請洪孟楷委員好 我27案我簡單講啦水電費是台電這幾年持續的一個增加那當然增加你就應該要符合比例的一個增加但是故宮增加的比例是比台電漲價還要增加來的多而且將近三倍之多台電漲價只有17%、14%但是故宮幅度高達55%"},{"start":4411.678,"end":4434.203,"text":"所以如果說你講說行政費用增加是因為台電漲價的話那你應該是名符其實那有沒有因為這樣而灌水的這一點我要請故宮說明如果說沒有辦法說明的話我覺得這一個部分凍結一千萬那之後使得動滯以上謝謝好謝謝孟凱還有沒有兩位委員好那我們就開始處理我們整個第一幕請故宮做回答"},{"start":4436.62,"end":4455.454,"text":"人事的部分先說,人事的部分的話當然18人的臨補作業的話基本上來講已經到了尾聲因為今年開始進行臨補然後最後的話就是會有部分的人臨補可是有一些職缺的話就是要做內部的升遷所以當然有這樣的一個問題"},{"start":4459.172,"end":4489.172,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":4489.172,"end":4513.797,"text":"議員：議員．議員．議員．議員．"},{"start":4514.915,"end":4530.733,"text":"再來有關水電的部分,這比較大塊。水電的部分故宮過去在整個基本預算通商的期間裡面都一直刪一直刪。刪了之後的話到今年的……"},{"start":4532.575,"end":4532.595,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":4550.843,"end":4576.609,"text":"所以現在的話我的想法是說讓水電會恢復到他該有的水電的預算的科目要不然的話就變成說我的展覽會用業務費也要去貼就是說那個什麼企務處也要貼一點然後室溫處也要貼一點然後每一個單位都要分攤一點水電費這樣基本上來講的話對預算的編列是不正常的可是因為這是長期以來的一個現象"},{"start":4577.469,"end":4577.489,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":4594.312,"end":4595.133,"text":" ﹝竹刀的長官﹞﹞"},{"start":4619.428,"end":4641.169,"text":"議員：議員："},{"start":4641.903,"end":4670.503,"text":"議員﹗"},{"start":4671.315,"end":4690.613,"text":"你還沒有回答我的。南北新資的。南北新資齁。跟委員報告公務員的薪水的話是沒有差跡是沒有錯。可是因為剛也提過就是說因為我們是用委外用外包。外包的話他就有廠商競價。廠商競價的話他在基本工資的一個額度之下。"},{"start":4691.374,"end":4719.002,"text":"議員﹚議員﹚"},{"start":4720.803,"end":4744.657,"text":"所以故宮還是沒有辦法要解決南北薪資差距的一個問題而且我還要強烈質疑我是根據你的預算書然後算出原本北部是91你現在給我74你告訴我我怎麼一下算完你又給我一個新的一個數據而且我說實在的我還沒有特別提到你114年你告訴我是76.32"},{"start":4746.238,"end":4749.963,"text":"你還告訴我是略高於113年74.64你說已經調高了2.25現在我們現在調整個根據行政院的部分是要調高3.3%本身你2.5還不符合3%的這樣的一個標準了所以這個問題你們就要讓他繼續留存著就對了"},{"start":4764.121,"end":4790.486,"text":"議員﹚議員﹚"},{"start":4791.668,"end":4797.337,"text":"你也差太多了,好不好?你差了比6萬多還要多耶!"},{"start":4798.291,"end":4798.911,"text":"我隨便講一個你難願"},{"start":4824.239,"end":4827.101,"text":"對不对,你先聽我講,你南院的前科管科的科長被投訴嘛,你現在已經被調離了,而且我現在比較argue的是一點什麼,你們就有,你們,你他被調離的時候投訴的粉磚是不斷在深淵,你們把他封鎖,你們政風處有去南下去調查,但是都以那個旅遊不充分就否決。"},{"start":4845.973,"end":4856.741,"text":"但是你沒有發現一個公職的護理師他拒絕假日來值班然後呢就讓你約聘的這個護理師就必須要來他因為勞役不均身心受創來投訴但是院長你知道嗎你們卻以告訴他你們的救濟僅限於公務員為由拒絕他的申訴故宮也告訴大家申訴的說法以公職人員為限故宮拼了那麼多的"},{"start":4875.555,"end":4890.811,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":4891.632,"end":4915.953,"text":"你那麼高的比率那你知道這些人怎麼辦既低薪南部比北部更低薪然後人家發生的事情來申訴要嘛就給人家粉專給封鎖然後呢如果真正是有的話你又告訴他我們申訴只限於公職人員那你覺得這公平嗎跟委員報告我會去了解齁但是申訴絕對不會只限公職人員你們講的你們回覆的只限於公職人員吶"},{"start":4917.291,"end":4923.119,"text":"委員長,有心去查一下班表吧,還給人家一個公道啦,注意一下管理問題啦,你有心去查一下班表,我剛剛所講的,都是完全根據證據來說話。"},{"start":4932.031,"end":4932.111,"text":"閱议委員．﹖"},{"start":4964.537,"end":4983.295,"text":"我們是不是來處理整個第一幕的這個預算那那個各位委員這一幕我們一樣就是整幕來動那包括我自己有24案、28案跟大家並案處理那這個洞結束然後我要堅持在什麼樣的預算案上"},{"start":4986.311,"end":5004.171,"text":"我剛才第23案我要請這個院長還是思考一下不然我要堅持我們現在到這一階段就全部談完數字了好不好所以吳俊成委員提議三千萬那如果那個委員大家沒有其他的意見那我們就這一幕啊"},{"start":5006.428,"end":5030.694,"text":"我幫吳佩儀委員講一下因為後來你們有跟她溝通之後知道從今年6月政策就開始改變嘛針對那個女性員工的服裝然後新的服裝就是設計上也已經開放了然後參考員工的意見所以她願意跟大家並動然後數字也就是並沒有要那麼高所以就是那陳秀寶委員她是堅持要"},{"start":5031.614,"end":5032.214,"text":"一人之委員．"},{"start":5059.687,"end":5082.953,"text":"但是我還是強烈要求,剛剛不管南北的這個問題還有剛好巴黎問題,我覺得故宮要給我一個非常清楚的交代。好,我們現在處理預算數了。那這整幕呢,我們就是動3000萬,然後那個用書面報告之後使得解凍。然後我們今天所提出來在這一幕裡面相關的議題,請故宮用最快的速度能夠回覆各委員辦公室。"},{"start":5084.261,"end":5099.955,"text":"好,接下來我們來處理第二幕。那第二幕的部分的話是從30案到39案。若聽為委員。好,我是第37案喔,麻煩大家看一下。"},{"start":5104.121,"end":5121.442,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":5121.562,"end":5121.582,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":5137.561,"end":5162.267,"text":" »:19、還有48.27。113年截至這個7月底的數據還是下降到64.24。我想整體而言我們可以看到我們希望現階段兩岸交流文化的一個交流也無法融冰入客缺少的一個情況之下如何有效大幅提升這次的參觀人數給這個前故宮100活動的吸引力能夠做出來這是我覺得這是一個重要課題所以我凍結250萬希望能夠給予我一個書面報告讓我能夠確認"},{"start":5167.21,"end":5167.952,"text":"這錢花的值不值得?"},{"start":5173.769,"end":5179.274,"text":"範圍委員,你這樣會很忙耶,因為你要幫所有的委員來講耶,這整個早上。沒有幫所有啦,就是幾個而已。因為你們有七個委員嘛,所以你要幫六個委員來講。"},{"start":5199.59,"end":5222.396,"text":"三十五案的部分陳秀寶委員他是希望能夠在網路推廣跟網路能見度故宮這麼精彩那未來又有100院慶能夠給自己多一點期許跟期待所以他有凍結500萬那希望你們在網路推廣跟能見度這個部分可以做得更好一點那我幫他表達一下"},{"start":5222.796,"end":5251.303,"text":"好 謝謝那這樣子的話我們第二幕很簡單我們第二幕的部分的話我們就以程旭寶委員凍結五百萬的數額第二幕凍結五百萬輸滅這個報告之後使得折凍接下來我們第三幕第三幕是40案到85案來各位委員有沒有兩位委員好來慢慢翻慢慢翻來我們第三幕喔40案到85案大家準備一下羅廷薇委員"},{"start":5254.787,"end":5272.432,"text":"蘇貴圖黨"},{"start":5272.532,"end":5277.494,"text":"第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第13次總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關"},{"start":5304.396,"end":5305.176,"text":"接下來我們請議員、指揮員。"},{"start":5331.031,"end":5348.48,"text":"五十三案喔那這邊有編168萬是作為故宮的社教推廣及博物館的行銷的媒體政策跟業務宣導費用但我們看他的這個網路的經營好像"},{"start":5349.309,"end":5376.681,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":5379.841,"end":5380.922,"text":"無寸城委員、范雲委員、柯之恩委員"},{"start":5397.435,"end":5411.688,"text":"四、九、六十二、七十二、八十有五個案子那這裡要提的就是第43案現在我們的故宮的這個的這個訪客國際旅客在114年的時候有在今年"},{"start":5424.926,"end":5445.463,"text":"一百七十萬次本來目標是一百七十萬次但是到現在只有達到七十多萬次少了一百萬人次再來的話就是我們的故宮的點閱率那個網站的精選網站的點閱率"},{"start":5447.665,"end":5454.151,"text":"在過去2021年有327萬到今年只有54萬落差何其之大300多萬變成50幾萬所以這些經營的都非常的不用心"},{"start":5464.147,"end":5476.405,"text":"那所以在這部分是不是有改善?在73案當中我再談的教育部教育部教育部73案72案72案72案當中教育部"},{"start":5479.91,"end":5498.11,"text":"提今年開始規劃第三人生大學那故宮的這個資料可以趁這個機會跟這個第三人生大學去結合是不是可以有一些比較積極的推廣的措施以上"},{"start":5499.79,"end":5499.99,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5530.63,"end":5558.958,"text":"第48案主要是關於你們現在的校園大使他發現你們這裡面沒有彰化的學校作為彰化的立委覺得你們這中間除了沒有彰化之外也沒有苗栗、屏東跟台東故宮在校園大使的部分是不是城鄉教育資源要注意到平衡的問題這個部分如果你們等一下報告有提到有確實改善的做法他也可以改成主決議"},{"start":5560.575,"end":5582.552,"text":"第56案他比較希望能夠並動就是你們現在故宮對團體參觀的秩序應該要訂一些更明確的規範譬如說不能在展區推擠站位或停留以提升故宮的參觀的水平否則對觀眾還有國保可能都有潛在的影響那這個部分他希望能夠並動"},{"start":5583.953,"end":5609.838,"text":"第57案是我自己的就是關於我一直關心故宮的身心障礙的參與機制我覺得要有常態性的委員跟參與機制能夠邀請身心障礙人事或團體代表而且比例應該要過半故宮有表達說已經會納入常態的委員所以這部分如果你們等一下我是希望能夠就是說因為這是一個辦法"},{"start":5611.178,"end":5637.501,"text":"愈快改善愈好那如果你們能夠承諾的話那我看看就是要不要改成主決議這是我的第57案那第63案也是陳秀寶委員的他覺得百年願慶是不是能夠展現就是AI在博物館展覽跟藝術的表現這個部分能夠導向相關的展覽那這部分他可以改成主決議或跟大家一起並動"},{"start":5638.702,"end":5657.022,"text":"第74案是林一錦委員的,它也是關於故宮的開放資料的深度運用,因為覺得目前的狀態還是不夠開放,不能讓故宮的這麼豐富的知識局限在小圈子裡面,應該要既然我們已經花錢了,應該要能夠更開放。"},{"start":5657.483,"end":5657.603,"text":" ﹝請勿模仿﹞"},{"start":5679.599,"end":5705.742,"text":"議員﹚議員﹚"},{"start":5705.842,"end":5730.152,"text":"好,謝謝。我想再寫下最後一個。那個張雅琳委員很關心兒童的部分。所以你們在兒童青年事務推動諮詢委員會這個部分是不是能夠比照其他的機構開放永續發展工作小組的相關資訊。那如果你們這邊可以做到的話,它可以改成主決議,然後你們提書面報告。"},{"start":5731.212,"end":5732.893,"text":"拜託發言委員,我們自己講自己的,因為如果說其實偶一為之,就是委員有時候剛好有一個事情再回來,或者是"},{"start":5748.217,"end":5776.937,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":5777.219,"end":5793.456,"text":"所以上一次文化部的預算我們從早上就一個早上都在你們的人都沒有一個在除了你之外還有另外一個我們都看在眼裡然後我們離開一下就拍照就說我們沒來那這樣子的話你們的人請問一下為什麼審預算都不來都跑去幹嘛了都不尊重故宮齁"},{"start":5797.018,"end":5814.299,"text":"其實我想這個除了發言委員轉達之外因為今天直播其實大家都會知道我覺得各辦公室的這個助理回去也要跟這個委員講一下那今天呢因為我們要審查故宮的預算其實大家都準備了很久也非常的嚴謹喔那我們希望喔這個每一個委員你們今天就講自己的提案"},{"start":5814.759,"end":5842.749,"text":"但是如果有真的遇到偶一出去這樣子我覺得主席是可以接受的但是又要照剛才那個模式今天之後的我們不接受這樣處理接下來我們請柯子恩委員好有關第三幕的部分我提出了46、47、58、64、70跟75我想就誠如剛剛趙薇所提到大家都很認真但是時間有限所以我根據幾個我不會每一個都提然後我等一下可以跟大家一起共同來併案或等一下處理"},{"start":5843.149,"end":5851.335,"text":"但是有兩個部分三個部分我一定要特別提出來就是第58第58的部分裡面是有關於綜合規劃跟推廣行銷的部分我只要請問故宮你其中有個說明說你是辦電子化服務建置跟整合的委託案總共是編了1230萬但是呢我們查過去113年你編700、112年你編了200那你這個時候為什麼兩年之內你要調漲5倍"},{"start":5872.569,"end":5883.799,"text":" ️那你是物價上揚加薪還有什麼什麼之類的我覺得這個部分裡面我有考量進去但是為什麼會漲5倍所以這個部分我是做出簡列300萬的這個部分當然也可以挺故宮來做一個說明那到第64案我個人是比較care因為我知道說"},{"start":5892.727,"end":5918.698,"text":"所有的因為我以前常去逛北院故宮嘛那我對於故宮完善的志工的服務制度我說實在我非常impress但是我還是要提出來南北的落差還是非常大雖然故宮在今年11月你們榮獲了這個文化部的這個全國基優文化志工還有基優志工的了解但是呢你們素質很高但是南院為什麼招募困難且流失部長啊院長你有沒有去了解"},{"start":5919.298,"end":5943.882,"text":"因為你南院目前為止你共7期的志工目前僅留下126人那你第8期雖然有超過100人徵選但是面試等而變成40人而且最重要的是大家都陸續離職你們北院的故宮大家不想離職南院故宮陸續離職目前只剩下24人而且你院長你現在知道南院有多少故宮嗎需要多少才夠院長你知道嗎我告訴你你覺得需要多少"},{"start":5949.042,"end":5950.623,"text":"南越需要多少志工採購?起碼要240個,你知道現在要多少?240個才足夠,你目前只有217,然後你造成這個銳減,北部沒有問題,南越有這個問題是什麼?"},{"start":5966.271,"end":5994.138,"text":"好了,那要300人你說的現在都要217那個差距更大這表示在管理還有在整個這個志工的層面上有嘛我告訴你連我都知道你不可能不知道啊你沒有好好做訓練啊你在12期之前你沒有限定一定要通過志工考核才變成合格啊而且你儘管不是以雙語為主軸但是你也是到第13期你才要求什麼通過導覽考核啊那你到底你們相對於南院的志工的目前呢"},{"start":5994.718,"end":6010.589,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":6010.769,"end":6029.065,"text":"這是小事,但是我告訴你給人家過期的月曆、轉手的禮品還要出現南院明令志工不得參加其他文化單位的記者會等等拜託耶,院長去了解一下我是剛好趁著64的案的時候特別提出來我還是要強烈的要求院長要提出一個解釋出來了"},{"start":6030.126,"end":6058.971,"text":"好那這些都是零零總總有非常多那我還有一個75案還是一樣跟其他委員一樣百年故宮我們還是期許這個一百週年應該有特殊的文創或者是小物來作為故宮的一個亮點那我覺得為了要督促故宮做好這個故宮的行銷我覺得是透過凍結的方法請故宮在三個月之內跟我們來報告一下到底你們要做出什麼然後我們才來做解凍雖然只有這麼多案子但我提出三案來做一個說明"},{"start":6059.991,"end":6060.333,"text":"葛如晶委員"},{"start":6065.64,"end":6095.64,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":6095.64,"end":6122.363,"text":" ﹝﹝﹞"},{"start":6122.463,"end":6151.531,"text":"那我想既然導覽已經全面更新了現在我們也已經進入2024年的年代了這個伊隆馬斯克都說2026年這個普及人工智慧就要來了我們現在還在用這個按按鈕來聽聲音有這麼多的NFC的技術可以去tap可以聽到語音或者用QR code甚至是直接用物件辨識的方式那我們現在台灣不要說我們在編科技預算的時候都說我們是科技指導"},{"start":6151.991,"end":6152.411,"text":"第61案是關於112年發生故宮懲罰人員不小心把"},{"start":6173.443,"end":6173.463,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":6188.422,"end":6214.228,"text":" ﹗未來有可能的一些版權、盈利等等的一些機會可能會流失掉。那事件發生以後故宮這邊有跟我們說就是說有制定故宮博物院數位典藏圖像產製取用及備份作業須知那原本有委託第三方的資安顧問公司漢興每年進行一次的失通安全內部集合那我想既然已經集合了"},{"start":6214.668,"end":6214.688,"text":" ﹝提問﹞"},{"start":6231.818,"end":6259.339,"text":"沒有辦法好好來運用這些資源來做下一次事件的預防那我覺得這個錢花的也沒花吼那第71案呢是有關本席總質詢的時候一再提出的問題截至目前為止我們台灣就是說邊科技預算說科技之島的時候都喊了很大那文化跟科技是一體的我一直在講這件事情這個世界越科技我們越要重視文化跟歷史但是呢我們現在的這個算是一個AI國家對台德"},{"start":6260.64,"end":6289.599,"text":""},{"start":6289.719,"end":6312.694,"text":"政府機關內部的單位把故宮兩個字放上去在未來它的報告跟全世界講跟國會議員講就講說欸故宮有合作這都做不到那我們就很難相信說未來還有更緊密的合作關係嘛所以還是要請院長說明一下故宮在圖像素材資料語言的這些素材上面故宮跟台德接下的情況是怎麼樣"},{"start":6313.314,"end":6315.775,"text":"第77案是關於百年願慶的展覽安排還有推廣行銷的業務在這裡我想要稍微提一下因為推廣行銷業務一個很大的重點是明年百年願慶你們一定會有非常多非常精彩的活動甚至有一些"},{"start":6338.268,"end":6352.534,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":6352.935,"end":6374.621,"text":"但是我必須要說本席竟然發現其實一直都有人在檢舉說我們的故宮的名義很容易被別人盜用甚至還被盜用完說叫台北故宮叫什麼故宮文物還在各個平台取得藍勾勾"},{"start":6375.481,"end":6398.23,"text":"我在這邊怕院長看不到我們還特別做了一張大張的大家看一下這個是小紅書上面的官方帳號上面寫的是什麼是臺北故宮交流中心還有藍勾勾這只是其中一個案例而已其實還有非常多打著故宮名號的這種所謂的假的"},{"start":6398.59,"end":6399.791,"text":" ﹝竟然說我賣你授權﹞ ﹝竟然說我賣你授權﹞"},{"start":6420.325,"end":6444.676,"text":"我們變這個預算幹嘛所以我是希望故宮這邊是不是可以說明一下既然百年願敬要來了我們要砸重本我們要這個全民一起歡慶那過去的這些這個成就已經存在的這個問題我們是不是大刀固斧的趕快處理一下讓這個百年願敬的benefit可以全部回到我們的故宮身上來這部分是不是可以請院長或相關的人員來回應一下 謝謝"},{"start":6448.604,"end":6474.77,"text":"好 謝謝還沒來委員您先請委員然後下一位主委員我這邊第三幕一案85那我這邊提醒一下謝謝故宮有來溝通相關的這個案子那這邊我要提醒竟然明年要辦100年那故宮來院在2016年9月把那個授手拆掉了那可能有一些原因但現在已經8年了還沒有裝修好"},{"start":6475.33,"end":6502.162,"text":"然後我們的這個故宮男院的那個處長也在2018年來那可能拆掉的時候很早所以你可能不知道這個脈絡但是我昨天其實一直跟你們講個重點故宮不能去剝奪掉大家的一個共同記憶所以這個共同的記憶在你不知道的情況下呢必須要去做一個處理所以如果那12根那個桿子或者是燈座那個你不知道是為什麼而設的"},{"start":6503.643,"end":6503.803,"text":"接下來是﹐"},{"start":6530.797,"end":6547.913,"text":"議員之委員我要講一下就是國民軍委員那個661我非常支持因為那時候我們在質詢的時候也都一直有提到這件事情而且是從今年初一直講到今年尾一整年完全都沒有改善就是同一個帳號在淘寶上面一直存在"},{"start":6548.613,"end":6549.414,"text":"好 謝謝 我們有請故宮來做一個回答"},{"start":6575.034,"end":6604.107,"text":"好,那個問題很多齁,一個一個講齁,就是那個有關那個淘寶跟蘇格王齁,其實他只要上架的話,我們都會去透過那個律師的話或是用溝通的方式讓他們下架,可是下架的話當然沒有錯,他又會上架齁,可是以目前來講的話那個比例越來越少齁,就是說但是下架之後他們還是會上,上我們去申訴的話他又把他下架,下架過一陣子他又上齁,"},{"start":6604.667,"end":6604.687,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":6619.133,"end":6644.448,"text":"徒工作便利的話把那個壓縮檔的工作的話放到那個開放區的話這個部分的話基本上來講的話我們已經處理同仁也懲處當然他也離開了那我們現在是有做一個規範然後讓那個系統的管理人跟那個工作的管理人的話分頭來進行所以嚴禁的話就是把那個圖堂的那個作業的話放到開放區"},{"start":6645.589,"end":6662.295,"text":"議員﹖"},{"start":6663.86,"end":6684.451,"text":"國委員的部分就是台德的部分我想我回去會再跟同仁直接跟台德那邊聯繫就是讓故宮去做故宮應該有的貢獻那故宮現在我們也開始在做AI Ready就是說希望把那個故宮的特定的圖檔把它標示化然後讓他很容易在那個"},{"start":6685.691,"end":6685.711,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":6704.984,"end":6705.004,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":6720.222,"end":6720.242,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":6750.522,"end":6750.542,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":6772.751,"end":6790.321,"text":"那另外的柯志文委員這邊致功的部分致功的部分的確我自己的經驗判斷大概南院的致功因為未來的話是國保館基本上來講要達到300個致功才夠"},{"start":6792.171,"end":6818.702,"text":"蘭月志工南北志工的那個來源的話他有一點點落差因為譬如說我在高美館的時候800個志工那800個志工裡面有分展場志工跟導覽志工基本上來講的話導覽志工要經過一年的展場志工才可以晉升那蘭月的現在故宮的處理方式的話就一進來大家都要當導覽志工可是蘭月的話在審核的時候就是說會有人覺得說蘭月的那個"},{"start":6819.923,"end":6842.824,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":6842.964,"end":6868.617,"text":"那那個林倩琦的部分的話就是那個12瘦手是成人拍電影的所有的倒計把它翻通他不是真的顏明元的12瘦手的複製品所以這個部分的話基本上來講有不同的意見因為原來的柱子跟那個那個也不是為了那12個瘦手去處理的原來柱子本來就是12個燈柱然後發現有12個燈柱就擺了12個所以那個比例上來講其實並不是很協調那因為"},{"start":6871.658,"end":6894.886,"text":"這個處理的話是在我上任之前的前前前所以這個部分的話我們再來思考另外一個就是那個志工的那個紀念品那個是大概3、5年前的事情現在並沒有這樣的一個事情什麼過期的業力3、5年前我來了以後沒有我跟你保證"},{"start":6896.496,"end":6916.892,"text":"好 謝謝那我們來處理這個預算數那這一幕呢目前為止我看到凍結數最高的是科振委員的100萬但是後面也有滿多委員大概在500萬那也包括500萬的部分有羅廷偉委員然後還有第三幕第三幕單案凍結數"},{"start":6922.072,"end":6934.867,"text":"我們現在在看最高,最高,我說賀正委員1000嘛。對,所以我們現在看到還有500的,然後包括郭一群委員沒有來,但是他也是說500,葛文君委員500。好,來這一幕,我們大家動多少?是不是就同動1000?好,同動1000萬。"},{"start":6943.945,"end":6961.98,"text":"您代表自己的意見嗎?我只是說我們要一起並動,就是不改組決議。那你講數字就好了,你是並動嘛。那我們一千萬我是覺得,如果院長可以接受的話。好,院長你可以接受嗎?我這邊建議10%,可以吧?10%。什麼的10%?最弱的10%。"},{"start":6972.177,"end":6996.497,"text":"兩千,好,林憲憲委員希望動兩千。那我們就折衷一千萬吧,你不要,院長這五百不可能啊。折衷應該是一千五,兩千加一千。沒關係就一千萬好了,我們把就是第一、第三目,折幕,對。好,那我們趕快快速下一個。折幕一千萬,好。好,下一個。然後那個書面報告並且各委員關心的議題喔,要再更仔細而正確的資料交給各委員。"},{"start":6998.229,"end":7012.98,"text":"接下來我們看一下第四幕。第四幕是文物安全管理與維護。那從第86案到110案。來,各位委員。我們這次從後面好不好。來,吳俊成委員有沒有案子?還是哪位委員先準備好也可以。"},{"start":7015.964,"end":7034.889,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":7035.049,"end":7039.171,"text":"議案第107案是南院庫房管理書師,昨天彭處長特別說明,現在2024年,現在我們的院方在做庫房管理,"},{"start":7054.639,"end":7054.899,"text":"謝謝,我們接下來請議員、主委員。"},{"start":7080.136,"end":7098.693,"text":"關於故宮的文物可能因為管理上的一些疏失所以讓大家非常的擔心有的甚至因此破損所以希望故宮可以針對這件事情可以提出一個書面報告然後我們這邊是建議凍結500萬"},{"start":7100.595,"end":7123.403,"text":" ﹝提出報告通過之後就可以動資﹞因為之前我跟院長的答詢都覺得院長不是很在乎這一塊我覺得非常的緊張所以希望能夠這個報告可以寫詳實一點然後另外還有一個是102案102案是人力的部分那之前質詢的時候也有提到就是資品的修護師那只有一位那這個希望能夠增加人力人力也不好找"},{"start":7123.763,"end":7142.295,"text":"議員﹖"},{"start":7143.517,"end":7163.261,"text":"謝謝教委。那本席在這邊提出來是95案。那是這個也是文物安全管理跟修護。那這邊本席連同前面一起說在那個本席謝謝故宮也是這邊有來說明有關於藍青三寶那本席這邊本來是希望能夠文字化所以他在保管保存也會相對比較這個成熟那這個方向請故宮"},{"start":7167.022,"end":7196.937,"text":""},{"start":7198.117,"end":7217.944,"text":"好 接下來我們還有哪位委員 柯智恩委員我這一幕有五案但是我只針對98案來做發言就好因為我還是要非常的關切因為故宮還要進行這個陶瓷器文物典藏的這個科學化管理所以你們訂製了很多鋼製典藏的櫃"},{"start":7218.664,"end":7218.704,"text":" ﹝請勿模仿﹞"},{"start":7241.752,"end":7245.794,"text":"109案5月23日有停電那現在你們在附電的一個緊急發電的過程當中還是有所謂的監視器設備有數分鐘未運作我非常擔憂"},{"start":7260.222,"end":7260.342,"text":" ﹝廣告中﹞"},{"start":7288.015,"end":7296.198,"text":"我的案子是第96案喔也是跟大家一樣關心你們的那個器物典藏跟庫房管理在安全上的改善方案啦"},{"start":7297.058,"end":7324.503,"text":"我之前質詢的時候也要求你們可以跟韓國中央博物館它的比較現代化的管理安全管理方式做一個比較然後提出你們的改進的方向報告那你們已經承諾說你們現在正在進行瓷器的改箱違規那也逐步會把山洞庫房文物移到現代化的庫房那植品器物修復式的工程也在進行中預計年底完成"},{"start":7325.143,"end":7325.563,"text":"另一級委員"},{"start":7345.724,"end":7374.142,"text":"謝謝主席這一幕我總共有三個案子九四案是關心故宮文物的防盜問題上次在教文會口頭上就有提醒過故宮就是說關於文物防盜的問題真的非同小可所以這次再提出來跟大家討論那因為近年來故宮會成為眾人的焦點除了我們舉辦很多人氣的展覽以外"},{"start":7374.923,"end":7391.51,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":7391.991,"end":7392.011,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":7407.432,"end":7426.613,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":7427.314,"end":7444.229,"text":"關於這個預算提案其實故宮也有來辦公室說明那說典藏庫房密佈高畫質的數位監視器那所以我是想請問是說我們力求無死角的意思是不是仍有死角這個等一下請這個故宮說明一下那"},{"start":7448.012,"end":7471.425,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":7471.505,"end":7497.775,"text":"整個的監視體系那我想這個等一下真的還要請故宮做說明一下那另外101案提出這個案其實就是關心私人文物寄存有可能流亡海外的問題那其實這個是我本席一直一提再提的問題就是板橋林家私人文物寄存的問題那因為我們都沒有追守所謂的故宮"},{"start":7499.155,"end":7526.715,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":7526.835,"end":7554.218,"text":"要去叮嚀這件事情而且要去追蹤這件事情我想這個案子主要是要提醒這件再來是105案105案還是要釐清說故宮究竟有多少的寄存案甚至有帳目不清的文物我覺得這個問題還是要請故宮要好好的釐清究竟有多少的文物不是故宮的所有"},{"start":7555.179,"end":7571.442,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":7572.002,"end":7594.907,"text":"據說是用託管的方式進入故宮王世傑的文物據說是寄存可是都沒有定名年限像潘新宇的文物傅新宇的文物既然是託管那產權的釐清有別於寄存請問這個未來要怎麼處理王世傑的寄存文物雖然沒有明定寄存年限今年寄存的家屬有跟故宮聯絡到底聯繫的狀況怎麼樣也請故宮說明"},{"start":7599.208,"end":7612.813,"text":"這個案子其實就是 呃 這個凍結其實就是期待故宮對於這件事情要做積極的處理。以上。好,好,謝謝疫情委員。那接下來我們是疫情委員,然後再秀寶,然後再佩玉。"},{"start":7614.674,"end":7618.337,"text":"這一幕我是86、89及99,我針對86及99來做發言。86案的部分,我想故宮有四個書畫圖書文獻還有器物跟織品四個修復室,但目前人力好像只有16位的文物修復人員。"},{"start":7638.115,"end":7638.135,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":7653.624,"end":7654.345,"text":"第99案的部分,"},{"start":7669.855,"end":7689.554,"text":"姑宮現在典藏70萬件的這個藏品喔那到目前為止好像只進行過三次的大盤點那上一次的盤點已經是民國97年喔那這個盤點完已經101年了將近花了大概將近三年多的一個時間喔那我想呢這個文物如果發生任何的狀況其實都"},{"start":7691.015,"end":7691.035,"text":"秀寶園議員"},{"start":7716.332,"end":7731.53,"text":"謝謝主席在第4幕的部分呢本期的案子是第97案是關於文物安全管理與修復這個部分呢其實從上次損傷文物之後呢故宮博物院這邊又提出了改善違規的這個方案"},{"start":7731.971,"end":7735.334,"text":"在南院則是有導入這個RFID這個文物的管理系統而且在2023年12月就已經完成軟液體的這個開發跟測試那我這邊想知道說我們故宮這邊他北院這邊你們用改箱違規的這個方案呢你們到底進度如何"},{"start":7751.248,"end":7773.643,"text":" 接下來我們南院的這個系統這個文物管理的系統什麼時候可以再引進北院呢讓我們所有的文物的管理我們整個庫房保存的環境能夠做一個比較大的改善以避免就是文物這個損傷呢這樣的事件再發生那在這個部分我提供的金額是100萬那等一下大家可以一起討論以上好謝謝那再來是"},{"start":7777.722,"end":7796.988,"text":"議員,"},{"start":7796.988,"end":7821.34,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":7821.681,"end":7827.103,"text":"第4幕同樣我們大家來並動那凍結的數額有沒有人有什麼想法我們看到現在在這一幕當中凍結的最高數是2000萬還是我們就以2000萬好那如果沒有意見的話第4幕凍結2000萬然後書面報告後我們使得解凍一樣各委員關心的議題拜託故宮要給各委員辦公室書面詳盡的回覆"},{"start":7854.212,"end":7880.348,"text":"那個運行委員,你的86跟99是並動還是組決議?86案跟99案。我可以改成組決議,沒問題。這兩個都改組決議。好,我們接下來進行到第五幕新故宮計畫。那這個新故宮計畫第五幕的部分是111案到133案。那個,我想,因為剛剛我們從後面過來,我們現在從前面再回去,好嗎?來,柯志珍委員。"},{"start":7884.212,"end":7905.648,"text":"好,第五目大概就是113,我還是非常關心新故宮的計畫,因為你電費114年增加這麼多,其實我們之前已經特別提到了政府要節能減碳,那你如果真的是蓋一個玻璃入口亭,你的電費是更加驚人喔而且你外觀玻璃清潔的維護還有費用,還有故宮你有估計未來要增加多少用電數嗎?"},{"start":7907.329,"end":7937.329,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":7937.689,"end":7937.729,"text":" ﹝講解中﹞"},{"start":7965.128,"end":7994.036,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":7999.893,"end":8028.625,"text":"謝謝主席我是第120案那120案有三項問題要跟故宮請教一下第一個就是說故宮預計在2026要完成新增文物的庫房工程那在這個之前有什麼樣的文物保存跟維護的規劃還是讓文物持續處在尖尾縮的這個風險之中那第二是書畫庫房的B庫"},{"start":8029.605,"end":8034.788,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":8051.456,"end":8064.846,"text":"閱讀處的故宮積極辦理這些事項也強化新故宮計畫的各項建設的量能所以其實我只凍結了10萬塊可是真的要監督請你們積極辦理以上好 謝謝那下一位我們請羅廷薇委員"},{"start":8073.902,"end":8089.031,"text":"好,我是116案新故宮這個計畫大家都很關心我直接說我是凍結一千萬那希望能夠把我的遺憶回覆我我們再來做處理謝謝好謝謝那我們接下來林倩琪委員"},{"start":8090.898,"end":8114.948,"text":"在政務裏面是有三案1、2、2、1、2、3、1、2、4那這個都是在於這整個管社的擴建之後還有這個觀光的建置那在跟故宮的這個討論裏面我們也對管社這個部分所提出來的疑義跟內容跟未來的進度那也請故宮這邊後續就如你們所承諾的那把相關的這個計畫提供給我們這邊來做一個瞭解"},{"start":8118.689,"end":8118.869,"text":"下一位紅夢凱委員"},{"start":8138.592,"end":8160.064,"text":"好主席謝謝我是132案喔這一點還是強調就是說在之前故宮這個翠玉白菜有到台南做展覽的時候然後這個簽和相關報告的一個狀況那故宮院長也受訪的時候坦言是有疏失的那一樣就是說翠玉白菜在今年我們會前往再一次的出訪"},{"start":8161.799,"end":8176.051,"text":"國內我們的交流都有這樣的一個舒適我們真的不希望再看到這一次那尤其是2014年所以白在第一次出訪的時候其實我也請各位同仁去看一下2014年那個時候出訪YouTube上都還找得到當時的新聞報導影片"},{"start":8177.432,"end":8197.449,"text":"議員﹖"},{"start":8198.148,"end":8225.265,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":8225.425,"end":8225.465,"text":"議員之委員．"},{"start":8244.138,"end":8245.098,"text":"好 謝謝那我們繼續葛國勳來人"},{"start":8277.128,"end":8277.309,"text":"陳佩玉委員"},{"start":8282.555,"end":8309.251,"text":"好 謝謝主席我的部分就是那個故宮百年plus的這個事情如果沒有記錯我至少在這件事情上跟故宮溝通過5次而且在質詢台上也一直問但是到故宮到我們辦公室來溝通的時候我真的要說在相關的策展中心意念上還有價值觀上我們真的看不見故宮的想要展現的價值或者是他如何展現在地化、多元化、年輕化、台灣化這件事情"},{"start":8310.171,"end":8325.644,"text":"但是我們看到故宮的預算甚至還編列了一億三千萬那當然院長你有說到你們有相關的展覽可是我們真的看不見了如果這個展覽是你之前在質詢台上說的是以前就已經規劃好的不能亂改但是你又把它放在100plus裡頭我真的看不見這個中間的關係"},{"start":8327.005,"end":8347.039,"text":" ️﹏"},{"start":8347.139,"end":8372.037,"text":"姑宮自己的論述然後也看不見故宮想要展現的態度我真的覺得非常可惜那很多其他黨的委員會提到關於中國觀光客的問題但我更要說其實台灣這幾年吸引非常多泰國、越南、日本、韓國非常多其他國家的觀光客他們對於故宮是有期待是有想像的會想要去看的但是我故宮在照顧國際觀光客跟台灣本地觀光客這件事情上"},{"start":8372.677,"end":8372.857,"text":"謝謝秀寶委員"},{"start":8387.767,"end":8404.249,"text":"在第五幕的這個部分本期的案子是第117案其實我們故宮有近70萬件的館藏非常的豐富但是這個文物的展示率一直有都被檢討包括在預算報告裡面一直也都被提到說文物的展示率太低"},{"start":8404.91,"end":8428.837,"text":"那我們新故宮計畫裡面包括北院院區擴建計畫以及南院二館的這個建築工程裡面我們是不是在這個我們擴建的這個同時我們如何去規劃妥善的這個來規劃展覽的空間來擴大就是可以讓更多的展品可以有一個空間可以來展示來積極的提升這個文物的展示率來保障民眾的這個文化經用權那"},{"start":8430.817,"end":8433.02,"text":"姑公這邊你們有來說明啦你們就說許多圖書啊書籍這個研究性大於這個觀賞性所以故宮會採用用線上開放展覽的這個方式來開放閱覽讓提供民眾來利用那關於這個案子呢我可以不堅持一定要動也可以改組決議"},{"start":8449.457,"end":8469.309,"text":"但是我希望說故宮你們要增加這個具有展覽性的價值的文物的展示率你們如何積極的來規劃我希望給我辦公室一份你們的報告讓我知道說你們對於說大家一直在檢討一直在關心這個文物的展示率這麼低你們自己本身也是有很積極的有一些規劃跟作為以上"},{"start":8470.472,"end":8471.033,"text":"藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":8486.186,"end":8486.266,"text":" ﹝講解中﹞"},{"start":8506.058,"end":8506.579,"text":"第133案,就是說我們看這個"},{"start":8527.424,"end":8527.584,"text":" ﹝講解中﹞"},{"start":8557.945,"end":8558.345,"text":"下一位預刑委員"},{"start":8582.645,"end":8611.349,"text":"議長,在上次質詢的我有特別提到其實要針對這個偏鄉的學校這個希望能夠再積極更擴大那這個部分當然還有就是故宮的這個合作的單位只有三個那希望就是故宮在這個部分可以再拓展更多的合作的一些單位那讓提供更多的這個學校的師生可以來一起參與更多元的一個選擇那這個部分我沒有特別的堅持那等一下看是不是可以用變動的一個方式以上"},{"start":8613.552,"end":8614.373,"text":"請故宮提出的問題重點回答"},{"start":8623.833,"end":8646.008,"text":"議員關心的就是新故宮第一個就是所謂的玻璃屋其實玻璃屋的話是一種大家就把它叫成了叫做玻璃屋其實它的目的就是故宮大家知道就是我們從地下室上次然後到了一樓大廳的時候那個樓梯是非常矮的然後又是售票然後又是那個什麼借耳機啊所以地方"},{"start":8646.408,"end":8673.951,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":8674.301,"end":8701.837,"text":"我們一定會依照臺北市那個文資審議的結果來進行相關的工作。絕對不會說故宮強制要怎麼做。我們會尊重專家學者的意見。那另外的話就是﹗電會的部分我說它是一個輕量體的一個建築。電會的話漏水的話以現在的工法的話基本上來講的話是可以﹖"},{"start":8702.619,"end":8702.639,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":8722.011,"end":8744.062,"text":"不是 不是 不是 不是 不是但是表示說我們對這件事情總是因為60年的建築基本上來講的話也應該做一個大規模的整修包括那個屋頂的slab那個都要處理但是局部的處理的話現在已經沒有辦法了一定要整個打除然後重新做防水層才有辦法一勞永逸"},{"start":8744.65,"end":8767.637,"text":"不好意思,我們的主席請院長來回應我剛剛113案就是希望院長來回應不要這樣呼嚨啦我剛剛說你的漏水問題我現在才知道你跟副院長都住在那邊可以讓重視漏水問題你還是沒解決啊還有你剛剛玻璃停的部分我還是要強調嘛你到底要增加多少的電度數嘛然後你的到底這麼大量停你跟玻璃玻璃之間萬一發生事情你怎麼來填補院長你要根據我剛剛的問題你不要念你已經準備好的問題我剛剛有"},{"start":8771.818,"end":8798.539,"text":"新的問題,你過去的問題好不好?院長,因為你一定要把它說清楚,因為克森委員在這案當中是提案凍結1億喔。建築專業的問題,我沒有辦法這樣就是講說我一定用什麼去填補,因為這是科學建築材料的問題啊,這不是我的可以回答的問題。但是基本上來講的話,所有的審議所有的過程的話,一定是專家協助去處理,然後讓他"},{"start":8800,"end":8800.02,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":8825.014,"end":8825.034,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":8845.07,"end":8864.252,"text":"議長還沒有回答我最在乎的那個,我站在那個位置裡面那個,我不希望你的新故宮到時候蓋出來大家有那麼多的意見,你還是沒有給我那樣的照片,你剛剛提供的照片不是我要的照片。我們會給委員照片,而且我們會把模擬動畫給委員,其實在網站上就可以。"},{"start":8865.213,"end":8886.088,"text":"我沒有看到我沒有看到我要的那個而且我上次提出質詢到現在已經經過這麼多為什麼要我今天要凍結1億院長你才說你在提供給我我覺得這個東西就是最重要就是每次我們這邊質詢完希望能夠給我們一些的立即然後到下位置我們要坐在這個地方要在升減預算的時候你才告訴我未來會給我我覺得這個不是一個態度吧院長是不是"},{"start":8886.508,"end":8899.645,"text":"是,跟委員道歉,那個請同仁就是我們網路連結的那個動畫跟照片的話就直接現在就是給委員現在趕快就是看怎麼樣的管道就傳給委辦"},{"start":8901.499,"end":8923.552,"text":"好,那另外的話就是有一個改相違規的,因為我一併談,改相違規的話基本上它有一個節奏的問題,就是說我要把那個行政大樓,行政大樓的話我們已經抱菌了,我們在12月27號會舉行那個行政新行政大樓的一個落成典禮,我們在這邊我就"},{"start":8924.793,"end":8924.813,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":8941.832,"end":8968.828,"text":"那所以現在的經費的話就是用在做包裝紙盒無栓包裝紙盒那無栓包裝紙盒的話是由同仁設計委託外面的廠商來製作因為我不可能叫同仁去割紙盒在那邊做切割這個東西一定是委外所以經費會放在那邊所以同仁有點大家有點不了解說為什麼那個事情叫委託外面做是做包裝紙盒就無栓紙盒那是我們同仁設計那外面的廠商製作"},{"start":8971.53,"end":8987.54,"text":" 那當然後面的很多的委員的問題我想我是不是可以節省時間的話我們書面來答复那如果是書面答复還不夠清楚的話我們請同仁或是我自己到委辦辦公室去做一個說明。"},{"start":8989.667,"end":9007.398,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":9010.792,"end":9039.352,"text":"好,還有121案葛文君委員這邊有一個大概算起來應該是3.5億左右所以葛文君委員有個3.5億左右然後柯正文有一個1億那其餘的在這一幕當中其實11案本席也有提跟大家並動那5%也將近9千萬然後葛文君委員在上這一案也有5千萬那所以各位我們提一個數大家來整幕並動"},{"start":9042.441,"end":9061.131,"text":"現在最高數是葛國勇委員的3億5喔然後柯政委員的1億所以我們要不要提一個數大家來並動沒有先葛國勇委員可以1億謝謝好 那個葛國勇委員說把他改成1億大家有沒有意見院長可以接受嗎"},{"start":9068.052,"end":9096.287,"text":"對,這一句得文了因為基本上委員對這個案子有很多的疑慮所以故宮有一定要有那個怎麼講呢有那個意志要讓委員去了解我們整個計畫的目的就是說不是為了建而建就很簡單就是說我現在一個新任的院長如果我去評估這個沒有必要我為什麼要躺這個粉水呢"},{"start":9096.867,"end":9118.319,"text":"當然就是說我站在一個博物館長期觀察國內外博物館尤其是國際博物館的一個空間規劃那什麼樣可以達到一個好的效果所以我才會接受要不然的話我就不要做就沒事了那當然就是這個一定是我們去評估說對未來故宮的整體發展它是有幫助的第一個"},{"start":9119.36,"end":9143.968,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":9144.068,"end":9153.352,"text":"一方面是文職審議,一方面是跟委員這邊在進一步的溝通,然後去了解說為什麼我們要做這個事情。那個國務軍委員先,然後那個還有誰?"},{"start":9161.799,"end":9162.799,"text":"陳培宇委員、柯志恩委員"},{"start":9191.448,"end":9219.095,"text":"我們克茲恩委員剛剛說要一張圖我在質詢的時候也說可不可以給我們一個AR的示意用一些技術或用一種你要傳統的也可以你要那個科技的也可以我們都沒有結果你的影片啦你的圖像啦是放在別的雜誌的某一個角落的QR code我們提醒了你們才說好我們放在某個地方那現在我們做預算質詢我這裡砍了凍結了五分之一你好歹也印一張"},{"start":9219.875,"end":9219.895,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":9239.48,"end":9264.667,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":9265.428,"end":9282.003,"text":"議長剛剛所講的,你說要管線維修,我們絕對支持。但是你要做一個改善,這是一個何等大事。議長,你想如果羅浮宮前面要多一個,把三角形改成方形,把什麼東西再延伸出來。"},{"start":9283.237,"end":9283.257,"text":"委員長﹖"},{"start":9302.082,"end":9315.742,"text":"委員還在講話的時候麻煩你要聽如果你都沒有把問題聽進去你怎麼能夠精準的回答好不好先回答我覺得我們一起講完再來我們陳佩玉委員"},{"start":9318.74,"end":9347.339,"text":"我想要還是要提醒院長剛剛確實這個話聽起來是非常非常消極所以是不是就拜託院長好好說明我想不管執政黨跟在野黨大家真的擔心跟關心的事情方向都是一致的而且我覺得剛剛在這一幕的預算裡面其實應該完全沒有所謂意識形態的問題因為大家知道每次遇到故宮可能就會有一些意識形態的問題但我覺得剛剛聽起來都還好所以是不是就拜託院長我們給你們一些時間仔細說明好不好 謝謝"},{"start":9348.851,"end":9365.921,"text":"好接下來柯志恩委員然後再來雅琳不是院長我還是要特別澄清你現在每次講說你們老舊建築管秀管縣什麼之類大家都這麼愛故宮你如果故宮這些老舊建築這些漏水要來去做一些整修在場沒有一個人會反對"},{"start":9367.122,"end":9369.965,"text":"院長你要聽清楚我剛剛所提到的我剛剛說你的新故宮計畫你若要做這樣的事情你用什麼填補你不要把這個我說的新的故宮跟你舊的這個管線什麼合在一起到時候我這個帽子掛在我頭上柯之恩反對故宮那個整修我承擔不起"},{"start":9386.92,"end":9401.646,"text":"所以院長講話要精準因為我問得很精準我只針對新故宮計畫裡面當中剛剛所說的一個帷幕剛剛我所提到的這些好不好所以大家都請你把這個新故宮計畫"},{"start":9402.526,"end":9427.448,"text":"就故宮的那一些全力配合、全力支持把話聽清楚再給我精準的回應好,謝謝克珍委員那我們接著請雅琳委員好,我想就是我也是想要呼應一下前面委員講的就是故宮院長畢竟我們大家都是成年人啦我們今天就是就事論事來把這件事情討論清楚啦那我覺得不要用一些意氣用事的語言好,因為我想剛剛格魯金委員說他坎伊"},{"start":9427.688,"end":9446.954,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":9448.356,"end":9467.881,"text":"好 謝謝我想那個院長可能還要再精準回答一下不過我院長我想你今天在答這個回覆的時候你看不管是執政黨的委員在野黨的委員大家都覺得真的不要意氣用事真的不要消極的態度所以我想你等一下答詢的時候我希望你能夠精準一點好嗎好那個基本上來講的話就是我"},{"start":9473.865,"end":9500.708,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":9501.596,"end":9521.903,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":9521.963,"end":9521.983,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":9537.824,"end":9538.384,"text":"委員長麻煩你一下尊重主席好不好"},{"start":9562.632,"end":9589.812,"text":"請把他關起來好嗎 這個是誰放的那個委員沒有同意對不起 請先尊重一下主席好不好 院長主席 對 對不起 這個是誰放的主席沒有同意 不能晃我們看過啊 主要的啊 是我剛剛講過了 不可以這樣算 這樣是干擾我們的審查預算啊對不起 如果院長自己就已經說過 這就是一個模擬圖 模擬 第一個模擬有什麼好看的 第二個呢 也不是在審查預算的時候才要把這個圖 現在做這麼粗糙的交代嘛"},{"start":9590.572,"end":9592.573,"text":"我們請設計團隊把所有的不同面向的模擬圖就是仰視、俯視、測試的模擬圖都給委員。"},{"start":9624.143,"end":9647.885,"text":"因為我們已經討...好...那...那...發言委員我想這個百年喔新故宮計畫大家其實一定是期待很高啦那這個故宮一定要準備好喔然後前前後後都一致然後向社會大眾說明嘛那因為剛剛院長還講到說好像聽起來就是說如果是院長來設計會有點不一樣是這個意思嗎我有沒有聽錯"},{"start":9652.033,"end":9675.079,"text":"這個見仁見智因為對整個空間的話可能我會做更大的改變但是因為它具有文資身份因為在國外的話新的博物館在處理的時候大破大裂基本上來講的話是超越這樣的尺度啦但是以目前來講的話我來了以後這個案子已經滑包而且進行到審議的一個階段所以我不太容易把它重新來過"},{"start":9676.38,"end":9677.841,"text":"因為這樣包括預算都要重新來過。"},{"start":9693.013,"end":9711.112,"text":"對 我們直接處理了因為大家意見表述很清楚但主席在這邊我覺得嚴正的跟那個故宮講第一個我覺得你要遵守我們在這裡審查預算的這些規則跟原則那也要尊重主席在這裡主持這個議事因為不管是誰都有可能坐在這個位置"},{"start":9711.753,"end":9734.736,"text":"您怎麼可以這麼自意?您想怎麼改變我們今天審查的流程就去改變?那到底是為什麼可以就這樣去放影片?而他在放影片的時候,其實院長您正在答詢我們每個委員的問題。那你要我們到底是要聽你的還是要看影片?第二個,你這個影片其實我們很多委員也看過。看過之後大家有意見,所以在說預算案的時候才把它提出來。"},{"start":9735.436,"end":9764.648,"text":"所以你再拿這個以前就看過的東西來做這個預算案的說明這個說明根本就是多餘的那最後我想喔就是論事我們在這裡審查預算特別是教育文化委員會其實大家陳委員剛剛講得很好今天所有的委員發言大家沒有意識形態都在討論這個到底這個預算可不可以發揮到你們想像的效益或者是我們擔心的問題會發生所以我們好好的來討論不要再有這個情緒性啦或者是顧著用而言他"},{"start":9765.208,"end":9765.228,"text":"閱讀者﹚"},{"start":9787.568,"end":9814.906,"text":"議員﹚議員﹚"},{"start":9815.492,"end":9844.376,"text":"不是,那個117案是要改組決議嗎?還是就並動就好了?改組決議是不是?好。117改組決議。1、1、2、6誰的案?1、2、6雅琳的案子。主決議。改組決議。好。好,接下來我們進入到,喔,組決議的部分整理好了嗎?還有剛剛後面的呢?"},{"start":9845.953,"end":9848.655,"text":"134案到136案修正文字以後修正通過137案到138案照案通過139案到144案文字修正後修正通過"},{"start":9862.828,"end":9880.194,"text":"一百四十五案到一百五十案照案通過一百五十一案文字修正之後照修正通過一百五十二案到一百五十八案照案通過一百五十九案修正文字後修正通過一百六十案到一百六十四案照案通過好那我們繼續我們接下來來審查故宮文物藝術發展基金"},{"start":9892.978,"end":9893.478,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9937.514,"end":9944.024,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術"},{"start":9950.251,"end":9959.361,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9972.134,"end":9984.084,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9997.154,"end":10007.585,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":10026.187,"end":10050.106,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院"},{"start":10054.974,"end":10056.613,"text":"議員﹖"},{"start":10058.26,"end":10074.804,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管公務員單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管公務員單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管公務員單位預算案"},{"start":10085.247,"end":10107.125,"text":"議員﹚議員﹚議員﹚"},{"start":10107.925,"end":10123.855,"text":"我講到這裏,如果是...那天我跟妳抱歉,因為我們辦公室在京東最近,所以開會的時間很多,所以那天我們已經講好就不接電話,要趕快開會,因為我們人能抱歉,我又被假凍,所以就沒有辦法跟妳報名,我就不知道..."},{"start":10129.398,"end":10143.545,"text":"對,那因為據說接下來運動員不出單位的話,我們應該總部會有預算案。我知道啦。所以我想你那個高清台現場沒有人訪問的方向,我覺得你應該去訪問一些,然後到時候專案報告,你再重新整理再處罰好。因為基本上我現在都不看了。"},{"start":10151.028,"end":10165.397,"text":"議員那你不然不如就重新出發嗎?是沒有這個意見嗎?好不好?議員因為因為因為一定一定一定我們全部就後才會做的。要不然呢我不是教育我就說那為什麼要不做這件事情。議員可是那邊長長說跟前面的這個基本都一樣的問題在那裡?"},{"start":10170.06,"end":10188.431,"text":"我的看法我會更大,我會更加努力。但是,當然大家都知道,更大無數中央的這個爭議會更大,因為我覺得故宮竟然是人性的指揮官,所以要把這個無障礙無障礙的凍結,無障礙的凍結。那這樣子凍結再出發我們民主的意見,好不好?好不好,不准新任總,總幹部總幹部。"},{"start":10218.469,"end":10222.81,"text":"好 來我們各位委員還有故宮的同仁我們再繼續喔"},{"start":10226.311,"end":10240.279,"text":"接下來我們再來這個繼續基金那個大家可能就先就座一下好我們來審基金從總收入的部分開始審查來我們有請柯智源委員"},{"start":10242.179,"end":10269.902,"text":"不好意思這個基金基金的話我就是第一案跟第四案我們在總收入的部分還是一樣因為大家都非常喜歡故宮的文創然後這個熱銷帶來很多的銷貨成績那又是百年願慶所以我們當然希望這個積極催出百年願慶的紀念品然後可以促進故宮的行銷所以我認為故宮的實力應該是可以增加五千萬這是我提出來至於金額多少我們可以請院長或是相同同仁再來"},{"start":10271.003,"end":10285.491,"text":"第四案同樣也是一樣啊因為你們故宮在114年你其他業務收入你編列的620萬嘛等等之類的但是呢我覺得因為你114年的權利金是以113年度的銀額預估嘛你那時候是以那個3100萬的5%來計算但是你沒有根據實際人數參觀人數來增加你的這個"},{"start":10297.698,"end":10297.858,"text":"閱议委員．﹖"},{"start":10321.732,"end":10336.732,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":10337.192,"end":10353.667,"text":"我先稍微說明一下我是非常支持故宮在文創、文物保存還有一些相關的商品的創意我想過去都有很不錯的成績那包含甚至有結合數位的有NFT、有這個動物森友會作為阿宅我也是非常認可"},{"start":10354.428,"end":10376.101,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":10376.221,"end":10399.692,"text":"才剛上架啦,盜版就已經買得到,而且人家還給你改字。我先講我們是支持兩岸的交流,但是不是這種交流。就是說我們其實是支持交流的立場,但是我也不支持有人把故宮改名,然後去改,然後還盜版,去賣這個盜版的桌立。"},{"start":10400.892,"end":10415.469,"text":"當然這些平台各位不一定容易的去查緝管理但故宮的態度要做出來你們一定要到處要去講對於這種盜版的對於這種假授權的就是詐騙"},{"start":10416.75,"end":10437.152,"text":"你們是絕對勢不兩立,你們如果自己就是很消極的,你們自己也沒在抓、沒在查,也不去對外去講,那就是越演越烈嘛,大家看到有利可圖,因為故宮名這麼好,你們做了這麼努力,所以我想這個部分希望能夠再增烈,就是你們要對自己有信心,謝謝。"},{"start":10437.773,"end":10438.033,"text":"下一位培育委員"},{"start":10452.877,"end":10473.776,"text":"謝謝主席這個本期在這邊呢增列的是一千萬喔因為我是希望說真的故宮和你們這邊要更積極對你們來開發更多有創意的一些大眾會願意願意去購買去正常的這樣文創商品尤其明年就剛好是我們的百年願慶那我們也編列了系列活動的經費形象的經費"},{"start":10474.577,"end":10500.505,"text":"所以我們是不是應該更積極來開發這樣子一些限量的文宣的商品也符合就是說我們一些民眾我們民眾去到故宮去遊玩參加這個百年的這個願慶的時候同時他有一個做紀念那如果你們沒有對這個更積極我覺得說其實民眾反而會覺得很失望說到底你們願 百年願慶你們做了什麼準備你們開發了什麼這個部分呢我很堅持一定要增列啦"},{"start":10500.765,"end":10501.126,"text":"議員,我們先來回覆一下。"},{"start":10516.398,"end":10535.552,"text":"謝謝葛委員 這個所謂的中國台北故宮文創基本上來講的話的確這個是一個抄襲的案子這是抄我們今年的那個作例那他把我們那個百年的logo的話也都抄了所以這個部分的話我們會行使法律的權利我們會去追查"},{"start":10536.633,"end":10544.708,"text":" ﹗ 基本上來講只要發現有道名或是說有混淆的話我們都會透過兩岸的律師去進行法律行動這個我們一定會處理"},{"start":10551.547,"end":10551.687,"text":"主席"},{"start":10579.048,"end":10579.349,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10596.972,"end":10597.792,"text":"議長,你說爭略多少,你會比較有把握?"},{"start":10621.233,"end":10626.778,"text":"一千可以嗎?每個人都說一千。那個柯政委員跟葛瑞文委員。葛瑞文委員。"},{"start":10632.372,"end":10658.056,"text":"因為我實在太喜歡故宮了對我也真的是非常認為故宮是絕對是可以再就把我們剛剛講到這些問題都處理一下把本來該賺的都拿回來然後再用一些文化創意我們之前有這個文化部的這個預算小野部長就是很會就是你該做的是用創意去做跟麵粉多少也是可以脫鉤的啦不是沒有麵粉啦麵粉少一點"},{"start":10658.456,"end":10677.363,"text":"議員．﹖"},{"start":10678.488,"end":10707.828,"text":"委員長,因為如果照這個比例的話,其實它2500萬大概要2000萬元的一個支出要相對的去編列。所以我們是蠻擔心就是說這樣的一個編列的方式會讓我們的預算失真。那我還是看能不能徵求委員的同意1000萬。那另外一個剛有提到商品的部分,那如果委員主席同意的話,我這邊有一些,因為委員一直在關心商品,那在拜訪委員的過程中,他有希望我們提出一些商品的sample這樣子讓委員過目一下。請示如果可以的話,我就稍微展示一下可以嗎?"},{"start":10708.888,"end":10735.64,"text":"沒關係不用了我想這樣子吧這個大家都是對於這個故宮非常的喜愛也覺得很肯定所以我們希望能夠增列那不然我們就是在這一幕當中總收入的部分總收入我們增列2000萬好 謝謝那接下來我們進行到總支出的部分那這個案子是從第6案那到第15案那我們從後面的委員開始起"},{"start":10737.5,"end":10764.591,"text":"我們從後面的委員開始陳佩玉委員陳佩玉委員完成秀寶委員再往前好 謝謝主席我們提的其實是關於文創商品的部分我們仔細看過那個預算那當然後來有跟故宮溝通過我們有提到關於中國製的部分我們還是希望透過分潤機制可以鼓勵廠商盡量在台灣製造這件事情我們覺得非常重要可是後續故宮有些說明我們還是覺得怪怪的這樣還是要請故宮加油"},{"start":10765.291,"end":10793.703,"text":"另外根據我們跟故宮所知的內容有一件事情到現在我們還是沒有答案就是故宮這幾年文創商品的產製跟銷售數量完全沒有合可是為什麼故宮預算報告裡面呢把製造跟銷售數字寫得一模一樣我覺得就連經營之神應該也做不到吧但是不知道為什麼故宮他們覺得可以這樣寫那關於這個部分我想我沒有堅持我還是要聽聽看故宮人員的說明好以上謝謝"},{"start":10796.108,"end":10811.543,"text":"秀寶委員秀主席本期在這個部分是第7個案子第7個案子我提供的金額是300萬其實主要是我在質詢的時候就有講過根據故宮自己的調查在112年度去的遊客滿意度意見調查裡面對於禮品價格的滿意度是所有的項目裡面最低的只有57.4%"},{"start":10820.311,"end":10846.012,"text":" ﹏所以我在質詢的時候也跟故宮討論過我們會希望說你們要針對不同的群眾來調整你們文創商品的品項以及價格讓不同的這些目標的群眾他們有興趣而且願意購買的文創商品那故宮雖然你們有來說明就是說你們會願意鼓勵廠商開發不同的價格區間的商品我是覺得說真的你們要開發符合"},{"start":10847.913,"end":10848.453,"text":" ﹝提供的金額﹞"},{"start":10870.936,"end":10887.811,"text":"然後那個葛如君委員我的提案是第八案那我們有看到故宮文物藝術發展基金決算及會計月報裡面的這個資料有說文化創意衍生商品其實表現還是不俗這一點還是予以肯定但出版品的部分呢從109年度到"},{"start":10890.614,"end":10912.088,"text":" »:113年度可以說是節節下降銷售的數量從109年度的21萬本測到113年度是6萬本測當然是截止到10月底或11月底但這個數量看起來可能也是達不到去年標準或至少來說還是就是下降的銷售金額也是下降的現在是1700萬"},{"start":10913.849,"end":10939.082,"text":"所以我想這個故宮出版品的銷售量逐漸下降那不是故宮的商品然後呢這近五年來也只出版過15本童書平均一年三本我們還發現說你們有特地到義大利去考察童書展齁這個其實我知道也有很多執政黨的委員對童書展或者書展都很有專業這個我先不多說但是我覺得這個出版品的這個做法"},{"start":10939.722,"end":10940.903,"text":"謝謝,我們再往前還有哪一位委員?紅夢凱委員"},{"start":10962.479,"end":10986.536,"text":"我簡單說明一下我是第9案跟第12案但是overall還是一樣跟剛剛的這個稅路委員所提出來的一個概念就還是希望說故宮能夠來加強我們的行銷宣傳的一個部分那尤其是過去到現在其實很多國人都對於說故宮有一些文創商品其實都非常期待但近年來確實沒有亮點"},{"start":10987.376,"end":11011.566,"text":"我們上一次在詢問院長的時候院長也講到說比較這種中規中矩的但是還沒有辦法有這種耳目一新的一個部分那再加上明年就是100年所以說我們還是希望是說故宮能夠來加強這樣的一個文創商品的一個規劃跟設計那另外第12案裡面我有提到就是說我們現在跟那個博物館的這個"},{"start":11013.047,"end":11024.398,"text":" ﹗ 商城服務是委由台灣售網網路娛樂公司﹗ 那所以換言之不是台灣售網的,其實在網路上販賣的就不是這屬於這個我們的一個授權商品嗎?"},{"start":11024.974,"end":11046.169,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":11046.169,"end":11068.814,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":11068.968,"end":11093.029,"text":" ️﹏﹏"},{"start":11093.109,"end":11121.662,"text":"沒有授權大量比較便宜的去傾銷這兩個完全不同的邏輯那如果說屬於後者的話那可能是有違法之餘所以請故宮要要求好我還是要提醒一下因為像基金基金通常都是一個單位的小金庫所以我們今天就要審查這個是看看你所用的錢到底符不符合你基金的所需你調出故宮的這個藝術發展基金講得非常的清楚嘛"},{"start":11122.703,"end":11137.395,"text":"出版品、複製、仿製文物還有最重要是藝術紀念品的開發跟銷售文物的收購等等這是基金我們要先搞清楚它的宗旨所以本期這一次在第10案跟第15案其實我都在講"},{"start":11138.215,"end":11161.481,"text":"舉例來說第10案你有這個業務費用是旅運費其實旅運費為什麼要放在基金而不是放在他應該是放在公務預算當中那同理在第15案的地方也是你看他在第15案的地方嗎他這個地方裡面你還要去分攤北院院區的環境清潔維護費而且你編列的外包費用是1095萬你還要分攤南院的環境清潔費"},{"start":11167.922,"end":11183.565,"text":"這些不是都應該所謂的院區的清潔費都是要由公務預算來支出嗎?而且我說實在的因為你這個基金上面有提到你要賣東西嘛,你要銷售嘛所以你分擔水電啊、機電、勞務人員這應該是還勉強在這個所謂基金管理的總務費要勉強說得過去但是院區裡面的清潔、維護、支出跟你基金你看一下、對一下這個項目不太符合吧?這是要把它釐定清楚"},{"start":11197.327,"end":11210.234,"text":" ️所以我才因為不是不支持而是你的編列的方式我有疑義,所以我才會來做出這樣的一個簡略。好,以上我們請故宮院長來做說明一下。那個科文第15項的部分,就是那個基本維護費用,就成為我剛剛講的水電費,因為水電費不足。"},{"start":11224.113,"end":11238.865,"text":"我用麥克風講水電沒有問題我現在直指清潔院區的清潔費這是公務預算基金哇塞你要是基金都用這個東西到時候故宮的基金像那個勞動部的就業安定基金你承擔不起"},{"start":11240.409,"end":11265.28,"text":"這個部分的話我請同仁就是未來的話我們要把它理清清楚那另外的話有關那個禮運會的部分禮運會的部分的話基金有一個出國要去波隆納那在基金裡面的話比如說我們參加書展參加那個文創展參加各種相關的展覽就是有銷售行為的話這個支出的話都是從基金這邊支出"},{"start":11265.8,"end":11265.82,"text":" ﹝請勿模擬﹞"},{"start":11287.045,"end":11310.048,"text":"那個報告我是主計事主任林美洋我想要就是回答那個柯委員的所謂說基金為什麼要分攤那個清潔費那因為我們的商店都是附設在我們的院區裡面那我們這些外包的清潔也有含商店的清潔的部分對那我們往年都"},{"start":11311.489,"end":11313.871,"text":"所以都說明完畢了嗎?報告郵件還沒出來我可以補充"},{"start":11342.452,"end":11362.358,"text":"議員提到的結帳數量是一樣的,因為我們是用寄賣的方式。所以說授權的商品,我們每個月一賣完,隔個月就把商品的成本就結給廠商。所以說這個數量會一樣的,這初步說明。另外一個,紅夢凱委員有提到,因為我們故宮"},{"start":11362.858,"end":11391.084,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":11391.084,"end":11409.957,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":11412.415,"end":11433.549,"text":"委員會提到的出版品的部分,確實我們這部分在這幾年我們是因為配合那個院區的一個展覽的一個數量的一個出版品自己本身的出版品其實一直有在努力的在延益增加但是我們覺得不夠就是說我們希望說透過院外的出版授權的一個廠商一起來合作所以才會有提到剛剛有一些"},{"start":11433.968,"end":11443.729,"text":" ﻏ﹏﹏"},{"start":11445.558,"end":11445.958,"text":"總支出提案"},{"start":11466.718,"end":11484.533,"text":"我可不可以請問一下因為我有檢列1500萬我知道你們剛剛說我剛剛為什麼檢列旅遊是你院區的清潔那你說商店也需要清潔你商店應該不需要1500萬吧你不需要清潔費不用1500萬吧商店的清潔院區不需要1500萬吧"},{"start":11486.749,"end":11494.671,"text":"我只強調很多費用是公務支出不是在基金要特別是像基金太多人在關注所以每一筆費用的項目你一定要非常的清楚好不好好所以我先處理一下那簡略的部分現在要處理嗎"},{"start":11518.567,"end":11532.469,"text":"如果我還是為了故宮好那你們你們我也不曉得他給我的理由我可不可以接受因為看起來我就認為該公務支出的就應該公務基金支出的就應該基金啊可是我也沒看到你的報告到底是是如何"},{"start":11535.038,"end":11560.505,"text":"我們在編列預算過程都有詳細的一個...不會啊我也是看了你的預算我才提出這個意思啊你上面就寫一個院區清潔維護費啊你寫院區清潔維護費當然屬於公務預算當然不應該屬於基金啊所以當然是這樣子啊因為我們基金是附設在商店內那人因為有門票收入增加我跟著我的銷貨收入他如果有去商店買東西的時候他也會增加所以你的清潔費還是需要1500萬啊"},{"start":11564.586,"end":11587.595,"text":"1500萬應該不是走基金的清潔費啦。應該是全部三個吧。不是因為有科目的問題嗎?不是因為我有沒有科目講,就是因為這個是有就是編列啦齁,到底在公務預算還是基金的部分。所以這個可能沒有辦法在這裡啊齁,去說我們是要減1500萬勒還是要減500勒,所以是不是要先弄清楚這個部分?"},{"start":11589.821,"end":11611.203,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":11611.263,"end":11625.868,"text":"好,那柯委員也同意,那我們就來處理。所以在這一個總支出的部分,整個凍結案應該現在數的最高的是在國務軍委員的1 10分之1 960萬,對不對?還有嗎?對,其他的有300多的,5%、200多的,對。好,那就是國務院委員?"},{"start":11646.012,"end":11665.417,"text":"這邊我可以看這個紅紅卡委員是5%他現在不在齁那我可以稍微減少啦那不然在這個地方的話我想綜合大家一下我們凍結500萬好不好然後一樣就是書面報告之後那我們就可以來做解凍以上"},{"start":11670.951,"end":11687.322,"text":"我們後面還有16案到20案。那16、17、18、19、20的部分都該組決議。我們照案通過。好,主席都在宣告,剛才的86案,預算案的86案、99案、117案、126案,我們照案通過。"},{"start":11697.915,"end":11723.613,"text":"好,報告委員會今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響文藝前提下授權議事人員一114年度中央政府總預算案審查報告與黨團協商之範例整理列入記錄關於今天會議作成如下決定114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案全部審查完畢"},{"start":11724.874,"end":11727.935,"text":"華國委員會今天的議程處理完畢,現在休息。謝謝各位。"},{"start":11751.561,"end":11779.155,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11779.155,"end":11804.957,"text":"議員﹚議員﹚議員﹚"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}