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所有團隊大家辛苦了我們先看下一頁"},{"start":19.229,"end":35.617,"text":"您上周在立法院新會期的施政報告您說了內閣的三大重建也是台灣急需的三大重建經貿佈局的重建災民生活的重建以及社會信任的重建我認為都非常重要"},{"start":36.621,"end":57.798,"text":"但我也要提台湾最严峻的一个挑战往往在于我们很多的社会资讯被错假消息所影响了所混淆了这也就是三大重建当中您罕见的把社会的信任重建列在重要的施政方针上我非常的肯定"},{"start":58.559,"end":81.541,"text":"所以說我們要社會信任的重建就是要有效的反制錯假訊息有效的去破解這些認知作戰所以當認知作戰無所不在對方是用槍砲彈藥的時候我們執政部門就不能還在拿彈弓啊所以說如果"},{"start":82.847,"end":94.806,"text":"政府要迎向一個重建社會秩序也就是等於要保障提升我們的執政效能如果有SOP的話你認為SOP是什麼當然我們一向"},{"start":97.489,"end":122.965,"text":"對整個社會的要求就是對守法對好人要進行更多的保障對於不法的對那個侵犯別人的我們一定要有法律的依據作為工具來嚴格的懲罰這樣才能建立一個社會公平的那條線社會安全的那條線建立起來之後我們才有資格跟能力要求人民跟我們信賴我們共同建立社會制度一起前進好下一頁"},{"start":124.127,"end":136.718,"text":"我很快的列舉出我認為我們的執政團隊需要有重建社會信任來保障提升我們執政效能的SOP"},{"start":137.796,"end":162.39,"text":"第一步有效情搜你要知道社會在關心什麼什麼樣的錯假訊息正在肆虐正在擴散第二步叫做精準闢謠第三你要加速擴散真相加速擴散我們的政策內涵最後一個不能偏廢的"},{"start":163.01,"end":175.107,"text":"必要的時候讓法律途徑讓司法來保護每一個閣員保護我們政府的執政效能所以這是我思考出來的"},{"start":176.314,"end":196.187,"text":"重建社會秩序行政部門要有的SOP有效情搜第一步精準闢謠第二步快速擴散很重要最後必要的話採取司法的途徑下一頁這兩天我要替我們內政部劉士芳部長說話"},{"start":198.257,"end":225.116,"text":"一個這麼努力在防災跟救災來統領我們的內閣團隊的指揮官我們劉部長居然到昨天還在被國民黨黨中央連災情也在消費連救災也在造謠國民黨造謠說劉世芳行我們的行政院內政部延緩了撤離的關鍵13小時"},{"start":228.138,"end":254.647,"text":"我要肯定我們劉部長昨天快速的行政院的院會後的記者會快速的澄清而且補充你在家就是你秀出了我們的完整的通聯記錄用完整的資訊正確的資訊seeing is believing就在這裡國民黨不要再造謠我認為非常快速而且精準有效但是"},{"start":258.686,"end":286.927,"text":"有沒有考慮我直接破題好了 院長我非常支持我們內閣團隊往往覺得息事寧人新會期有預算要審預算在在野黨的手上或者是我們內閣團隊就不應當去新送我認為除了闢謠必要的時候採取提告司法的途徑是非常重要劉部長你覺得呢"},{"start":288.287,"end":312.152,"text":"我們可以審慎考慮院長你會支持我們的團隊鼓勵大家必要的時候因為這打擊的不只是個人的形象他重挫的是政府的效能的形象我尊重部長對個人權益的選擇但我鼓勵部長為維護整個團隊要做出必要的想法好 我們來看下一段影片"},{"start":313.631,"end":321.089,"text":"這是昨天晚間在所有花蓮的地方群組快速傳散的一個影片來"},{"start":325.56,"end":326.961,"text":"可以播放嗎好 停了"},{"start":351.664,"end":373.224,"text":"簡單講我要告訴院長部長這個影片昨天夜間在數十個花蓮的地方群組有系統性計劃性的大量的擴散他講的造謠的內容就是現在我們的政災所收到的善款會被民進黨政府"},{"start":373.564,"end":393.695,"text":"拿去挪用用在不跟救災相關的事情甚至就是會侵吞了這群災民應當獲得的善款這就是不折不扣的造謠昨天晚上到今天早上快速的在傳散一夕之間數十個上百個群組這樣擴散這絕對背後有組織性"},{"start":399.772,"end":414.672,"text":"絕對是謠言吧每一封的善款就是用在災民身上就是用在災區重建我的說法是這個是將自己的不了解跟猜測變成一種懷疑把自己的不信任要擴大成為全國人民的不信任"},{"start":415.396,"end":437.71,"text":"這是非常要不得的一個行為政府從來沒有說過政災基金會收的款項要做這個做那個從來沒有說過我們從來政災基金會政委捐款到昨天已經七億八千萬了我們一定會用在災民身上而且會直接快速有效的發放下禮拜 陳金德政委就會到災區一戰式的來受理很多的作業內容"},{"start":438.456,"end":466.127,"text":"好 謝謝院長的說明面對錯假訊息絕對要回到我們剛剛的SOP你要勤搜 獲得資訊你要精準的闢謠你要快速的擴散正確的訊息最後考慮採取司法的途徑我跟院長報告 柏中你也能請回 辛苦了手上這一張是我最近收到的我擔任民進黨幹事長的這段時間我受到非常多的安全威脅"},{"start":467.492,"end":483.584,"text":"不管寫email的或打電話來的我一向也認為習是寧人但如果習是寧人就是姑息養奸如果持續的溫良公儉讓就是為虎作娼所以我第一次針對我個人威脅我"},{"start":486.005,"end":503.132,"text":"斬首行動賴清德也保不了你的這一個威脅的事件我提告了而我這幾天收到我們台北士林地方檢察署的這個檢疫的判決也就是會處以也抓到人了"},{"start":505.107,"end":528.517,"text":"讓這一個恐嚇威脅跟你意見不同的人還要付出代價他要接受司法的制裁我說過我過去也認為習氏寧人可能選民有情緒我們要理解但如果一再的去縱容姑息真的就是為虎作倡所以我鼓勵夏業從過去陳時中擔任防疫指揮官"},{"start":530.242,"end":545.469,"text":"每一個造謠都針對他重挫政府防疫的所有的執政效能跟形象但是正因為陳時中提告了62個司法案件還他清白全部不起訴千劫"},{"start":546.893,"end":564.774,"text":"陳吉仲部長當時的超思雞蛋案也被在野黨聯手認知作戰如何可怕還有中國在背後引舞也透過司法還陳吉仲清白正義雖然會遲到但是正義一定會到"},{"start":566.135,"end":591.962,"text":"所以我希望行政院給予我們所有的內閣首長一個最強大的支持如果傷及個人的聲譽如果傷及我們執政的效能國家的形象更是破壞了社會的信任的話我們該告就告您願意給所有內閣的閣員這一個最強大的支持力量嗎"},{"start":593.561,"end":621.792,"text":"你所提到的應該是網路上的人權啊對網路人權我們通常都比較沒有正面去看待他但是如果這個已經變成傷害個人傷害如果是我剛講國民黨啊如果傷害個人傷害團隊傷害到人民跟政府之間的信任我鼓勵我也支持所有在網路上被這些霸凌或是被這些網路不只網路我也是這個也是被霸凌或是用這種"},{"start":623.493,"end":636.97,"text":"推卸性的口語去做一些人生的攻擊我請我們的首長一方面尊重他自己的選擇一方面鼓勵為團隊做出應該有的做法好 謝謝也希望所有的內閣官員我們獲得院長的支持"},{"start":637.984,"end":653.477,"text":"也就是司法是社會正義的最後一道防線我們不濫訴但是保護國家保護閣員我認為必要的話必須採取司法的途徑剛剛講到SOP下葉院長你有被跟拍嗎我到目前沒有感覺到沒有感覺那你覺得你有沒有"},{"start":663.868,"end":675.152,"text":"您應該會有您也我想極有可能會有甚至連坐在我們台上的韓國瑜院長很有可能也是這個跟拍狗仔集團的獵殺名單吧"},{"start":677.969,"end":701.061,"text":"剛剛講的SOP我同樣在這裡用短短的時間在民主法治的社會居然發生這種為了打擊政敵用盯梢用跟監用偷拍的方式來做出極不道德而且違法的狗仔行為我們除了表達遺憾更要譴責我甚至建議韓國瑜院長立法院要不要成立一個調查委員會啊"},{"start":704.189,"end":714.009,"text":"或者是立法院也可以考慮在院會作出一個譴責案因為在座的113位立委包括韓國瑜院長都極有可能是受害者"},{"start":715.031,"end":735.42,"text":"所以說反跟姦反偷拍反對這種政治征防前端要有效的預防我也呼籲啟動我們所有的保六或者是我們刑事警察局協助所有的內閣閣員所有的坐車的安全要去做這些反跟車的科技的作為有效預防"},{"start":736.46,"end":757.681,"text":"第二個SOP如果查到真的有被跟拍的事實而且是違法的手段末端就要來嚴格就處該告就告當然這是保護閣員的隱私之外也是保障國家的安全因為我們不知道這個偷拍集團背後有沒有境外勢力"},{"start":758.402,"end":782.022,"text":"所以這個SOP我也希望院長支持所有的閣員協助我們所有的 必要用科技的方式來反跟監 反偷拍大家損一下大家保護大家保護閣員 保護我們的政府就是保護國家安全院長這個SOP是我今天給您的第二個建議現在進入我們關稅談判我們來看看"},{"start":785.239,"end":810.217,"text":"五五波的這件事對不起五五分很遺憾剛剛前一位質詢的張其凱委員還在明知在談判沒有觸及不可能答應也絕對沒有承諾的所謂的台美晶片產能五五分這件事情他還在這裡持續的擴散錯假的訊息我今天要用最後短短的時間我們來看看赴美投資的那一頁"},{"start":812.571,"end":836.693,"text":"跟院長分享喔 赴美投資就是罪惡的嗎赴美投資就應當被解讀是產業外移掏空台灣嗎我們看看國際社會各個主要國家這幾年對美的投資存量的總額都不斷的攀升而台灣並沒有如"},{"start":838.188,"end":862.186,"text":"在野黨的委員所擴散的那麼嚴重我們看看日本看看韓國看看中國也好德國也好世界各國都在佈局全球所以台灣不只不落人於後更要搶得先機不要把赴美投資妖魔化下一頁在我們看台灣模式那一頁我非常支持這個台灣模式"},{"start":863.366,"end":878.793,"text":"讓台灣成功的產業聚落的方式可以在全球落地這是壯大台灣不是掏空台灣這個G2G的合作您在這裡告訴我們是不是極有可能被實踐"},{"start":880.695,"end":907.249,"text":"談判已經到最後關鍵的這個時刻了那所有的細節這個磋商都已經完成了目前在等待的就是雙方對一些彼此的條件最後一個承諾那麼再做一個最後的總結所以總結會議我們認為啊會在適當的時間就出現我們總結會議會納入這個台灣模式那五五分這個部分副院長已經說過很多次了沒有談過沒有承諾也不會答應好最後一頁"},{"start":908.345,"end":915.135,"text":"我要在這裡再一次的支持擴大對美國的投資布局全球不是白白送錢"},{"start":918.251,"end":944.559,"text":"要我們家一起賺大錢我們作為產業最強大的實力我支持要臺灣博士可以加強研擬促成美國政府接受我們這個營銷的方案他說我們不會是在老實在說的只是掏錢賺錢我們是用產業經貨合資共生共利共贏的方式來影響臺美的官員的看法"},{"start":954.483,"end":955.063,"text":"好 謝謝吳斯堯委員質詢 謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":708,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（10時59分）謝謝韓院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：院長、所有內閣團隊，大家辛苦了。上週在立法院新會期的施政報告，您說了內閣的三大重建，也是臺灣急需的三大重建：經貿布局的重建、災民生活的重建以及社會信任的重建；我認為都非常重要！但我也要提，臺灣最嚴峻的一個挑戰往往在於我們很多社會資訊被錯假消息所影響了、所混淆了，這也就是三大重建當中，您罕見地把社會信任的重建列在重要的施政方針上，我非常的肯定。所以說我們要有社會信任的重建，就是要有效地反制錯假訊息、有效地去破解這些認知作戰。當認知作戰無所不在，對方是用槍砲彈藥的時候，我們執政部門就不能還在拿彈弓。如果政府要迎向一個重建社會秩序，也就是等於要保障提升我們的執政效能，如果有SOP的話，您認為SOP是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然我們一向對整個社會的要求，就是對守法、對好人要進行更多的保障，對於不法的、對那個侵犯別人的，我們一定要有法律的依據作為工具來嚴格的懲罰，這樣才能建立一個社會公平的那條線、社會安全的那條線，建立起來之後我們才有資格跟能力要求人民信賴我們共同建立起來的社會制度。"],["吳委員思瑤：往對的方向一起前進。","我很快列舉出我認為我們的執政團隊需要有重建社會信任來保障提升我們執政效能的SOP，第一步：有效情蒐。你要知道社會在關心什麼，什麼樣的錯假訊息正在肆虐、正在擴散。第二步叫做精準闢謠。第三，你要加速擴散真相，加速擴散我們的政策內涵。最後一個不能偏廢的，必要的時候讓法律途徑、讓司法來保護每一個閣員，保護我們政府的執政效能。所以這是我思考出來的重建社會秩序，行政部門要有的SOP。有效情蒐：第一步；精準闢謠：第二步；快速擴散很重要！最後，必要的話採取司法途徑。","這兩天我要替我們內政部劉世芳部長說話，一個這麼努力在防災跟救災統領我們內閣團隊的指揮官──我們的劉部長，居然到昨天國民黨黨中央連災情也在消費、連救災也在造謠，國民黨造謠說我們的行政院內政部延緩了撤離的關鍵13小時，我要肯定我們劉部長昨天在行政院院會後的記者會快速地澄清，而且部長你在這裡，最有效的就是你秀出了完整的通聯紀錄，用完整的資訊、正確的資訊，Seeing is believing！就在這裡！國民黨不要再造謠，我認為非常快速，而且精準有效，但是 and then？有沒有考慮……我直接破題好了，院長，我非常支持……我們內閣團隊往往覺得息事寧人，新會期有預算要審、預算在在野黨的手上，或者是我們內閣團隊就不應當去興訟，我認為除了闢謠，必要的時候採取提告，司法的途徑是非常重要！劉部長，你覺得呢？"],["劉部長世芳：我們可以審慎考慮。"],["吳委員思瑤：院長，你會支持我們的團隊，鼓勵大家必要的時候……因為這打擊的不只是個人的形象，它重挫的是政府的效能的形象。"],["卓院長榮泰：我尊重部長對個人權益的選擇，但我鼓勵部長，為維護整個團隊要做出必要的想法！"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我們來看下一段影片，這是昨天晚間在花蓮所有的地方群組快速傳散的一個影片。","（播放影片）"],["吳委員思瑤：簡單講，我要告訴院長、部長，這個影片昨天夜間在數十個花蓮的地方群組，有系統性、計畫性地大量擴散，它講的造謠內容就是現在賑災所收到的善款會被民進黨政府拿去挪用，用在跟救災不相關的事情，甚至會侵吞了災民應當獲得的善款，這就是不折不扣的造謠！從昨天晚上到今天早上快速地在傳散，一夕之間在數十個、上百個群組這樣擴散，這背後絕對有組織性。部長跟院長，這絕對是謠言吧！每一分的善款就是用在災民身上，就是用在災區重建！"],["卓院長榮泰：我的說法是，這個是將自己的不瞭解跟猜測變成一種懷疑，把自己的不信任要擴大成為全國人民的不信任，這是非常要不得的一個行為。政府從來沒有說過賑災基金會收的款項要做這個、要做那個，從來沒有說過……"],["吳委員思瑤：不可能挪用。"],["卓院長榮泰：賑災基金會的這個捐款到昨天已經7億8,000萬元了，我們一定會用在災民身上，而且會直接、快速、有效地發放。陳金德政委下禮拜就會到災區，一站式的來受理很多的作業內容。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝院長的說明。面對錯假訊息絕對要回到我們剛剛的SOP，要情蒐獲得資訊、要精準地闢謠、要快速地擴散正確的訊息，最後考慮採取司法的途徑。","我跟院長報告，部長，你可以請回，辛苦了。手上這一張是我最近收到的，在擔任民進黨幹事長的這段時間，我收到非常多的安全威脅，不管寫e-mail的或打電話來的，我一向也認為息事寧人。但如果息事寧人，就是姑息養奸；如果持續地溫良恭儉讓，就是為虎作倀。所以我第一次針對對我個人的威脅，威脅我「要斬首行動，賴清德也保不了你」的事件提告了。這幾天我收到臺灣士林地方檢察署的簡易判決，也就是會處以……也抓到人了，讓這一個恐嚇、威脅跟你意見不同的人最後要付出代價、要接受司法的制裁。","我說過過去我也認為息事寧人，可能選民有情緒，我們要理解，但如果一再地縱容、姑息，真的就是為虎作倀，所以我鼓勵……從過去陳時中擔任防疫指揮官時，每一個造謠都針對他而重挫政府所有防疫的執政效能跟形象，但是正因為對陳時中提告的62個司法案件全部不起訴簽結所以還他清白；陳吉仲部長當時的超思雞蛋案，也被在野黨聯手認知作戰說是如何可怕，還有中國在背後影武，這也透過司法還陳吉仲清白。","正義雖然會遲到，但是正義一定會到！所以我希望行政院給予所有的內閣首長最強大的支持，如果傷及個人的聲譽，傷及執政的效能、國家的形象，更破壞了社會的信任，我們該告就告，您願意給所有內閣閣員這一個最強大的支持力量嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員所提到的應該是網路上的人權，對網路的人權我們通常都比較沒有正面去看待，但是如果已經變成傷害個人、傷害團隊……"],["吳委員思瑤：如果是……我剛剛講國民黨啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果傷害個人、傷害團隊，傷害到人民跟政府之間的信任，我鼓勵、也支持所有在網路上被霸凌或是被這些……"],["吳委員思瑤：不只網路，我說的……"],["卓院長榮泰：網路上也是，被霸凌或者用威脅性的口語去做一些人身的攻擊，我請我們的首長一方面尊重他自己的選擇，一方面我鼓勵為團隊做出應該有的作法。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝，也希望所有的內閣官員獲得院長的支持，也就是司法是社會正義的最後一道防線，我們不濫訴，但是保護國家、保護閣員，我認為必要的話，必須採取司法的途徑。","剛剛講到SOP，院長，你有被跟拍嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我到目前沒有感覺到。"],["吳委員思瑤：沒有感覺，那你覺得你有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：欸……"],["吳委員思瑤：您應該會有，我想您也極有可能會有，甚至連坐在台上的韓國瑜院長很有可能也是跟拍狗仔集團的獵殺名單吧？","剛剛講的SOP，我同樣在這裡用短短的時間說明。在民主法治的社會居然發生這種為了打擊政敵，用盯梢、用跟監、用偷拍的方式來做出極不道德而且違法的狗仔行為，我們除了表達遺憾，更要譴責，我甚至建議韓國瑜院長，立法院要不要成立調查委員會？或者是立法院也可以考慮在院會做出譴責案，因為在座的113位立委包括韓國瑜院長，都極有可能是受害者，所以說反跟監、反偷拍，反對這種政治偵防，前端要有效的預防，我也呼籲啟動所有的保六或者是刑事警察局，協助所有內閣閣員的座車安全，要去做反跟車的科技作為來有效預防。","第二個SOP，如果查到真的有被跟拍的事實，而且是違法的手段，末端就要來嚴格究處，該告就告，當然這除了是保護閣員的隱私之外，也是保障國家的安全，因為我們不知道這個偷拍集團背後有沒有境外勢力。所以這個SOP，我也希望院長支持協助所有的閣員以必要的科技方式來反跟監、反偷拍，大家巡一次，保護自己，保護閣員，保護我們的政府就是保護國家安全。院長，這個SOP是我今天給您的第二個建議。","現在進入關稅談判，我們來看看五五波的這件事，對不起，是五五分。很遺憾，剛剛前一位質詢的張啓楷委員明知在談判沒有觸及、不可能答應，也絕對沒有承諾的所謂臺美晶片產能五五分這件事情，他還在這裡持續地擴散錯假的訊息。我今天要用最後短短的時間跟院長分享，赴美投資就是罪惡的嗎？赴美投資就應當被解讀是產業外移、掏空臺灣嗎？我們看看國際社會，各個主要國家這幾年對美的投資存量總額都不斷地攀升，而臺灣並沒有如在野黨委員所言擴散地那麼嚴重，我們看看日本、看看韓國、看看中國、看看德國，世界各國都在布局全球，所以臺灣不只不落人後，更要搶得先機，不要把赴美投資妖魔化。","我們看臺灣模式這一頁，我非常支持這個臺灣模式，讓臺灣成功的產業以聚落方式可以在全球落地，這是壯大臺灣，不是掏空臺灣。這個G to G的合作，您在這裡告訴我們，是不是極有可能被實踐？"],["卓院長榮泰：談判已經到最後關鍵時刻了，對所有細節的磋商都已經完成，目前等待的就是雙方彼此對一些條件最後做一個承諾，再做最後的總結，所以我們認為會在適當時間出現總結會議最後的協議。"],["吳委員思瑤：五五分這個臺灣模式？"],["卓院長榮泰：五五分部分，副院長已經說過很多次了，沒有談過，沒有承諾，也不會答應。"],["吳委員思瑤：好。我要在這裡再一次地支持，擴大對美國的投資、布局全球不是白白送錢，而是跟美國、跟世界主要國家一起賺大錢，我們作為產業最強大的支持力，我支持讓臺灣模式可以加強研議，促成美國政府接受我們這個有效的方案，它就不會是在野黨一再說的只是掏錢、給錢，我們是用產業聚落、合資、共生、共利、共贏的方式來迎向臺美關稅談判最終的正向結果，大家辛苦。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，我們朝這個方向在努力中。"],["吳委員思瑤：那今天給您的幾個SOP帶回去保護閣員、保護國家。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員質詢，謝謝卓院長備詢。"],["吳委員思瑤：還有保護韓院長。"],["主席：接下來請楊瓊瓔委員質詢，楊委員質詢之後，我們將會休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}