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觀光。"},{"start":1943.854,"end":1961.699,"text":"觀光發展基金非營業預算．中華郵政公司營業預算等三項預算進行審查．第二,114年度觀光署及所屬單位預算、觀光發展基金非營業預算、中華郵政公司營業預算等三項預算進行審查．"},{"start":1964.346,"end":1986.228,"text":"那也請我們待會部長三分鐘再加兩分鐘對於上海預計開放這個組團來,那您的那個態度,還有剛剛記者媒體問你還沒﹖大局的時候講的那個﹖不不,你待會報告的時候順便加這一小part好不好,因為這種突發事件。首先就邀請我們交通部陳部長報告。"},{"start":1996.004,"end":2012.581,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士先生今天應邀至貴委員會就如何提升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數進行專案報告並聆聽各位委員指教深感榮幸"},{"start":2015.014,"end":2030.73,"text":"就剛剛昭偉所指示上海這個開放旅客或者是團客來台灣的部分其實交通部跟觀光署的態度一向都是歡迎中國的旅客可以來到台灣"},{"start":2031.551,"end":2049.919,"text":"那過去其實台灣的旅客要到中國去旅行相對來說是沒有限制的是相當的自由那我們現在也看到相當多的台灣的旅客到中國去旅遊跟旅行那我們顧慮的跟顧及的其實是我們國家出遊的旅客的安全問題"},{"start":2051.339,"end":2073.252,"text":"當然,如果上海願意釋出這樣子的善意,可以讓大陸的旅客可以來到台灣旅遊,我們的態度都是歡迎的。從過去到現在我們的態度都是一樣。也很遺憾的是過去在這一段時間裡面,中國對於來台旅遊的這個團客或者是自由行的限制,可以說是相當的多。"},{"start":2073.792,"end":2094.503,"text":"那所以造成這個中國來台的旅客相對來說是非常非常的少那如果中國可以放開過去的這個政治限制可以讓他們的國民可以自由的來台觀光跟旅遊我們是相當的歡迎那台灣其實也都做好相當的準備台灣的不管是旅遊業也好"},{"start":2095.103,"end":2108.965,"text":"或業者也好其實做了相當多的準備,隨時可以歡迎中國的旅客來台旅遊。以上,就上海的開放旅客的可能性,來跟各位委員來做報告。"},{"start":2110.66,"end":2120.688,"text":"那近兩年隨著疫後國境解封我國的旅客跟轉機的旅客逐步的回升112年轉機旅客達到637萬餘人次113年11月到11月轉機的旅客量已經突破625萬人次預計今年可以再創歷史的新高"},{"start":2133.098,"end":2152.643,"text":"目前觀光署就已經就吸引外籍旅客來台觀光推動多項的措施其中特別針對在台停留7至24小時以內的轉機旅客只有效簽證或者是免簽者提供半日遊的旅程讓旅客來選擇114年為了響應2025年台灣燈會在桃園"},{"start":2159.125,"end":2187.508,"text":"也已經規劃了更多的旅程跟旅行的可能鼓勵轉機的旅客入境台灣並透過各種管道積極向國際的旅客宣傳期望能夠打響台灣的觀光品牌以下請本部觀光署周署長就如何提升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數向各位委員報告另有關"},{"start":2188.689,"end":2212.447,"text":"觀光署單位預算、觀光發展基金及中華郵政公司114年度業務計劃及預算編類內容由周署長及王董事長接續向各位委員提出報告與說明,敬請會議指教與支持。謝謝。好,請觀光署周署長報告。"},{"start":2218.74,"end":2240.627,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生將部觀光署緊究如何提升過境及轉機旅客入境台灣觀光品質並增加觀光人數以及114年度單位預算及觀光發展基金分預算案分別進行報告。"},{"start":2241.907,"end":2269.137,"text":"進行各位委員指教首先在台灣過境及轉機旅客方面桃園國際機場在疫情前也就是108年度那麼所有的轉機客大概算起來是564萬人次那麼疫情解封後也就是112年的5月那麼在當年度呢轉機的旅客"},{"start":2270.117,"end":2295.622,"text":"就如同剛剛部長所報告的637萬人次較疫情前成長了13%那麼113年度的今年那到11月為止我們已經超過了625萬人次那麼最主要的轉機還是在我們的東南亞轉接北美的這樣子一個方向所以轉機的需求與日俱增"},{"start":2296.582,"end":2325.064,"text":"目前我國過境旅客入境台灣的這個觀光半日遊程裡面為主。那麼現行的方案裡面針對在台停留的部分就如同剛剛部長所報告的那麼我們叫做過境半日遊的措施。那麼主要是在團體的導覽跟自由行。那麼團體的導覽主要分別走訪台北市、桃園市跟新北市為主。"},{"start":2326.172,"end":2335.363,"text":"那麼目前的執行成效來講,疫後統計112年度的部分約5000人次,那麼113年度截至11月底為止約9000人次,那麼我們佔比來講團體大概佔60%,那麼自由行佔40%,"},{"start":2347.216,"end":2368.844,"text":"我們會配合114年度的台灣燈會在桃園那麼連結以桃園捷運的A18站跟A19站來做推廣那麼也會增加一些限定的郵程跟相關的旅行業跟品寶協會合作那麼規劃更多的日間跟夜間的郵程由專人來定時導覽"},{"start":2370.877,"end":2394.905,"text":"將部觀光署持續在轉機的進進方向來講,主要是兩個部分。一個是擴大宣傳行銷力道。第二個部分呢,我們希望能夠強化郵程的規劃跟服務。我們也會跟機場合作,機場公司合作以協助的方式讓機場的CIQS相關單位進行協調提升轉機客的這樣子的一個相關的服務。"},{"start":2395.945,"end":2421.193,"text":"那麼隨著疫後的國際航線的復甦我們希望日後也跟桃園機場公司跟民航局的相關的機場共同來合作相關的轉機的服務那麼利用各種管道的行銷並且加大跟地方政府的共同推廣來搶供更多的轉機客入境台灣那麼針對114年度"},{"start":2424.025,"end":2448.684,"text":"的我們交通部觀光署及所屬的相關的預算僅就各位委員報告那麼在114年度的施政計畫重點恆濁疫後的國際永續觀光趨勢那麼在建構更理想的這個發展所以我們觀光署主改之後致力推動永續發展與數位轉型"},{"start":2451.328,"end":2454.117,"text":"那麼透過觀光品牌影客千萬,"},{"start":2455.322,"end":2479.077,"text":"跟環島亮點捲動國旅以及跨域整合、多元旅遊及智慧景區的價值提升四大策略立即2025邁向2030來擴大吸引國際旅客來台並捲動國旅。那麼在114年度的四大施政方向裡面那麼相關資料請各位委員能夠參閱書面的資料"},{"start":2482.27,"end":2505.725,"text":"那麼大家所關心的觀光客、影客千萬的部分仍然重點在於開拓多元市場持續一程多站跟順道旅遊那麼推動新南向的市場那麼包括簽證的簡便措施那麼第四項就是爭取國際大型活動在台舉辦"},{"start":2507.116,"end":2528.742,"text":"那麼我們也希望跟22個縣市政府共同來行銷,我們來捲動環島的百大亮點。那麼尤其是跨域整合的部分,我們除了國際魅力景區之外,我們也希望能夠結合觀光圈、商圈、休閒農場、觀光工廠做跨域的整合,以旅遊帶的方式來推廣。"},{"start":2529.946,"end":2546.959,"text":"那麼在智慧景區的部分除了我們國家風景區管理處之外我們也會跟國家公園、地質公園跟各縣市政府的景區、風景區來做串接光屬在114年度的公務預算編列部分"},{"start":2547.898,"end":2555.741,"text":"那麼稅入預算編列數是4967萬8千元與113年度相同。那麼在稅出的部分我們編列了55億1636萬9千元較113年度增加3億3130萬元1千元。"},{"start":2575.089,"end":2597.58,"text":"那麼主要是補助地方強化景區,那麼我們在觀光業務向下的11億2,209萬1千元,那麼有佔比有10億元,那麼主要是協助地方政府打造新的亮點。另外對於我們國家風景區開發與管理部分,"},{"start":2598.912,"end":2603.953,"text":"編列了33億6,840萬元,主要是13個管理處辦理國家風景區的建設計畫所需,較113年度減少1億42萬5千元。114年度的觀光發展基金部分,業務總收入90億8,618萬6千元,較113年度預算,"},{"start":2628.396,"end":2656.172,"text":"七十五億三千兩百五十四萬五千元,增加十五億五千三百六十四萬元。那麼主要是在於預期出境人數的增加跟機場服務費收入的增加所致。業務總支出的部分我們會強化國際行銷。那麼在整個預算的總支出編列七十八億六千五百零七萬五千元。"},{"start":2657.472,"end":2679.577,"text":"那麼較113年度那麼減少兩億三千七百五十七萬七千元主要是配合特別預算撥入基金執行來減編所至。那麼固定資產建設改良擴充部分編列了六億五千兩百三十三萬四千元。"},{"start":2680.885,"end":2698.069,"text":"有關於112年度與113年度截至11月份為止的預算執行方面我們在112年度的公務預算執行那麼稅入預算跟決算數已經較這個預算的增加1606萬1千元那麼稅出預算數跟決算數的執行率達97.34%"},{"start":2709.42,"end":2714.826,"text":"那麼110年度在基金預算部分業務總收入預算數是29億8755萬6千元那麼跟這個決算數相較那麼增加了54億"},{"start":2725.967,"end":2731.189,"text":"總支出65億4,792萬3千元,較預算增加16億4,028萬元,主要是肺炎特別預算相關補助措施結算剩餘款繳回所至。"},{"start":2750.663,"end":2756.389,"text":"在113年度截至11月子預算執行部分公務預算執行率81.32%稅出預算61億8506萬餘元那麼執行率是94.54%"},{"start":2770.373,"end":2781.141,"text":"那麼113年度的基金預算部分總收入預算編列75億3254萬餘元那麼截至11月份為止那麼我們的實收數是87億2414萬餘元那麼總支出的編列數是81億265萬餘元截至11月份執行數為"},{"start":2796.132,"end":2823.327,"text":"五十一億三百三十七萬餘元,執行率為八十七點八四,固定資產部分,那麼我們一百一十三年度可用預算為四千三百零八萬餘元,那麼執行率為九十五點九七percent,觀光署及所屬各管理處在一百一十四年度我們會以九大重點工作來執行,"},{"start":2824.656,"end":2839.064,"text":"打造推廣百大亮點那麼景區智慧化帶動在地產業尤其是會強化三大核心的觀光產業旅行業、旅宿業、遊樂區業的升級跟平保"},{"start":2841.625,"end":2866.198,"text":"第七項就是國際影客第八項是4G的主題營造第九項的工作重點就是人才的培訓跟調查研究讓有更多的資料來做精準投放在預算我們仍然以台灣整體的策略性思考來逐步推動各項的計畫以及按照優先順序"},{"start":2867.239,"end":2887.844,"text":"那麼先後緩急來做編列。那麼我們適時的配合施政的需要妥適編列。敬請各位委員會議支持與指教。謝謝。好,謝謝我們觀光署的報告。接下來有請中華郵政公司黃國才董事長報告。"},{"start":2893.601,"end":2898.05,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士先生。以下就中華郵政114年的業務計畫跟預算做一個報告。"},{"start":2903.107,"end":2930.352,"text":"AI跟數位時代的來臨也改變人們的這個用油的一個形式所以中華郵政的數位轉型是現在進行式在油務部分包括數位化因為改變用油的習慣透過數位化提升營運效率優化包裹跟快捷的遞送服務在儲位方面提供稀釋整合的數位金融服務作險部分因應年輕人我們強化行動跟網路投保的服務"},{"start":2931.252,"end":2942.905,"text":"那以下就這個預算部分用一個很摘要的部分跟各位報告在113年的預算在油物部分總共這個我們達成率是95.1%總共計出了16億5588萬件除外的部分"},{"start":2948.911,"end":2954.453,"text":"平均的優惠、存款優惠是7兆2562億達成年度預算的95.33%檢疫授權的部分保衛收入699億8282萬元達成年度預算的82.01%那到目前的這個"},{"start":2967.475,"end":2973.818,"text":"二、審查124年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":2990.607,"end":2996.653,"text":"黃地及新建集屋累進進度96.91%,郵政物流園區進度99.32%,今年底會全部完成,計劃告一段落,開始安裝機具。"},{"start":3009.011,"end":3035.973,"text":"有關於在114年的業務重點在郵輸部分我們現在是簡化EasyPost的網路各項功能也持續優化我們愛郵箱的操作介面跟流程我們希望把它愛郵箱變成一個無人店來處理那另外就是建置上門收件的網路業的系統以及對我們郵運派車的系統的優化這是我們在"},{"start":3036.834,"end":3041.957,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質及所屬單位預算．三、二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算．"},{"start":3062.895,"end":3072.167,"text":"那有關於114年預算的編列,我們油物部分,我們預估這個會稍微增加,就是17億4125萬件,"},{"start":3075.354,"end":3091.029,"text":"會比這個年度增加大概20萬件,那儲金的部分大概7兆3千億,那大概會增加這個整個儲金大概3330億,那捲一授錢的部分,大概一估保費收入是853億3600萬元,這跟這個12年度是相同的。"},{"start":3095.553,"end":3103.941,"text":"另外在整個淨利的部分我們初估是35億2208萬加上公積跟其他損益的轉入我們一估有55億793萬會繳庫以上報告進行各位指教謝謝好謝謝黃董事長"},{"start":3122.93,"end":3139.725,"text":"我們現在就進行合併詢答先宣告以下事項第一、詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘第二、委員發言登記於10點30分截止本委員會之外第三、各委員如有臨時提案"},{"start":3140.585,"end":3153.553,"text":"請於10點鐘提出以便議事人員會診。第四、暫定10點30分休息10分鐘。第五、中午原則上不休息。現在就請登記第一位李崑澤委員發言。謝謝召委。請一下陳世凱部長、觀光署州署長。"},{"start":3172.496,"end":3184.361,"text":"部長好、署長好。部長有關於榮耀號在8號因為引擎故障滯留日本沖繩。在9號的時候質詢我要求儘速地將民眾接回來。"},{"start":3191.846,"end":3209.873,"text":"當時部長好像沒什麼信心,說9號質詢你認為12號才有辦法將所有的國人接回來台灣。當時我也要求部長要全力督促,後來在10號就已經全部都回來了。"},{"start":3210.373,"end":3231.896,"text":"比我預計的你講的12號我要求的11號更提前到一天那基本上我們對部長的效率還有民行局的努力基本上給予肯定但是部長這只是一個突發狀況的隨堂小測驗你通過這個考試但是我們交通部最重要的工作還是在於"},{"start":3232.757,"end":3243.361,"text":"交通安全維護、交通建設的推動還有觀光旅遊的推動都是重要的業務之一。但是我們來看一下我們相關的觀光的"},{"start":3246.851,"end":3257.896,"text":"現況我們2019年跟2024年出國的人次同期來對比一月到十月2019年1456萬2024年1416萬就是說它恢復的比例出國的人次已經恢復到97.22但是來台灣的國際旅客2019跟2024來做一個比較"},{"start":3276.584,"end":3303.115,"text":"一至十月2019年973萬2024年一到十月只有620萬恢復的比例只有63.78就是說我們看到這樣的一個衝擊對旅遊的發展這個國人越來越沒有信心了我們觀光署自己公布的台灣觀光旅遊調查報告"},{"start":3305.149,"end":3324.791,"text":"國人不出國的因素是什麼?主要是假期無法配合有25.9那如果假期可以配合的話出國的人會更多呢?部長到底發生什麼事?為何如此光光的國際旅客來衰退成這種樣子?"},{"start":3326.8,"end":3354.051,"text":"報告委員因為疫情之後確實台灣的這個國際觀光的旅客恢復的速度不是只有台灣有疫情對全世界都有疫情那其他國家的速度比台灣快那台灣在今年的這個速度確實是慢了一些所以觀光署其實在這段時間也相當努力無論是國外的宣傳或者是說台灣的觀光亮點的努力其實我們都努力在做努力成只有恢復六成這叫努力嗎"},{"start":3354.871,"end":3373.172,"text":"做得不夠好,所以必須要改進也必須要改善。部長我要提醒你,我們的國際旅客恢復的狀況不佳。日本來台灣的旅客大概只恢復六成。韓國的旅客恢復不到八成。東南亞比較好一點有將近九成。那相關的"},{"start":3374.537,"end":3402.111,"text":"部長你認為這個因素到底是什麼簡單說明一下報告委員我覺得可能是台灣疫情也有關係但疫情是全世界都有但我們今年四月遇到了一個地震也確實是影響日本也有地震日本也有地震但是台灣的觀光的那個地震影響的是太魯閣也就是說台灣過去很著重的一個觀光亮點確實受到了影響那這個部分當然不可以作為理由啦這個部分必須要再檢討說為什麼他們來的少"},{"start":3403.672,"end":3429.786,"text":"那也跟委員報告我們在第四季其實日本跟韓國的旅客其實已經有一些回升了到了現在為止日本來台的旅客已經到了120萬以上超過120萬部長還是只有六成多啦我請教部長你明年你定下的國際旅客的目標是多少報告委員我的想法是這樣今年沒有達到的明年要達到今年設定了1000萬你看你又跟榮耀號的狀況又一樣"},{"start":3432.367,"end":3436.617,"text":"你有能力推升到1200,然後你說就以1000作為目標。"},{"start":3438.595,"end":3460.021,"text":"報告委員這個可能只是個及格的目標啦只是一個及格的目標我們當然希望能夠拉得更高部長我再提醒另外一個觀光的危機就是我們觀光署自己統計的我們29歲以下國人出國旅遊的人次是持續的上升2019年的時候是24.28那到2024年已經上升到26.14"},{"start":3467.163,"end":3478.47,"text":"這是逐年的上升29歲以下的年輕人是我們觀光未來發展一個重要的主力但是我們的主力不想在台灣旅遊想要出國去旅遊這個"},{"start":3481.616,"end":3507.363,"text":"部長你有沒有注意到這個趨勢?你有沒有什麼因應的辦法?其實國旅的部分除了我們要爭取國際旅客之外本國人在國家裡面在我們台灣裡面的旅遊也是很重要也就是說國旅的推動確實在這段時間我們有看到例如說墾丁的國旅的吸引力可能有些下滑然後還有一些其他地方的國旅的吸引力也下滑也有旅客在反映說我們的飯店是不是太貴我覺得這一類的問題要一一來解決"},{"start":3509.604,"end":3536.456,"text":"讓大家讓國人比較願意留在台灣旅遊。部長我們覺得我們對於觀光產業的危機我們必須要面對問題才能解決問題我們來看我們觀光面臨的困境主要是觀光的同質性高缺乏特色的魅力然後缺乏區域的景點的這種品牌而且旅遊的品質也不佳疫情期間"},{"start":3537.737,"end":3564.622,"text":"它的轉型跟改善是不足的而且數位運用、資訊及交通整合也不夠好乘車及購票的資訊取得是很困難而且標誌的指引缺失或是雜亂的資訊禁用性非常的差而且宣傳跟特色沒有辦法結合缺乏核心的客群這都是我們面臨很嚴重的問題部長說明一下"},{"start":3565.942,"end":3583.436,"text":"報告委員您所提的這幾點其實我覺得觀光署應該要就這幾點我們一一來解決這也確實是一般民眾大家目前對於國旅可能信心不足的原因這個其實委員您指的這幾點其實相當的完整那這個部分其實我覺得觀光署應該要"},{"start":3584.276,"end":3611.914,"text":"一點一點我們來克服。部長,這是日本的做法為例。日本去年就已經通過了觀光立國的推進基本計畫。他們就是要搭配地方創生來區域性的地方的特色建立起來。來打造區域旅遊的這一種品牌的特色。但是我們一直沒有做好。來,我另外再提到一個。日本2024年他們公布一個觀光政策的白皮書。"},{"start":3613.095,"end":3639.957,"text":"他們提出2025年消費擴大目標就是要藉由提高旅遊的品質及附加價值使入境的旅客就是訪日的外國人他們每人的平均消費額要提高到20萬日圓就是大概1300美元讓我們羨慕死了1300美元台灣的狀況是什麼疫情前後的平均消費"},{"start":3641.138,"end":3656.776,"text":"是下降的趨勢2019年國際旅客來台平均消費195美元我們希望看能不能突破200美元後來2023國際旅客來台灣下降到每日平均只有180.67美元來台灣"},{"start":3661.454,"end":3682.402,"text":"例如開箱越來越久部長你要怎麼做?報告委員在112年我們的這個來台的消費差不多是2700億左右在今年已經達到2826億不要用那種總數來蒙混社會大眾我講的是每日的這種消費部長我簡單問我們的日本他們有這種消費的擴大目標1300美元"},{"start":3689.841,"end":3718.401,"text":"阿你呢?報告委員這個部分台灣過去是沒有設定這樣子的目標啦消費的目標沒有設定有設定的是人數的目標但委員提醒這一點是你要設計沒有目標你在設什麼啦對因為過去沒有設定你作為一個觀光署作為一個交通部你對一個國際旅客來台灣你對他們來台灣消費而且消費我們自己也有統計阿是下滑的趨勢阿然後你現在說我們沒有設目標所以比較安心"},{"start":3719.802,"end":3745.505,"text":"這是不對的部長我知道委員您現在在說的這個設定目標日本有設定這樣的目標台灣過去沒有設定這樣的目標但未來應該要設定這樣的目標但是這個要給我們一些時間我們來計算一下我們跟經濟部一起來計算因為這個消費的目標不是光由觀光署算的出來要跟經濟部一起來對話觀光署跟交通部也不是昨天才成立然後現在說你們需要時間"},{"start":3746.997,"end":3767.171,"text":"部長,趕快,在預算審查的時候就要提出來,我會再問一次。另外,我們必須要建立友善的觀光產業,我們要強化培養地方的知識團體參與,地方的歷史文化或是地方的商店什麼等等,要必須讓他們來參與。"},{"start":3769.232,"end":3792.969,"text":"而要建立可持續性的這種觀光的模式也要強化人產的培訓強化數位的應用跟整合另外就是要強化交通的銜接及資訊的透明簡化提到交通部長我們必須要改善公共運輸我們也是觀光署自己公布的台灣觀光旅遊調查報告"},{"start":3795.112,"end":3819.802,"text":"國人旅遊自行駕車的在2019年是63.9然後到今年是提升到68.2自行駕車因為公共運輸不便利所以自己開車比較方便所以這也顯示說我們公共運輸在整合及搭乘的便利上都明顯的不足"},{"start":3820.925,"end":3842.137,"text":"來部長簡單說明一下是報告委員這個需要加強所以交通部一直在推行公共運輸的這個政策包含TPAS的部分但那個只有針對通勤我們也有延伸到了旅遊的部分但或許宣導不夠或者是路線不夠便利這個部分是需要加強部長都要提出明確的目標啦你榮耀號本來預計是12號"},{"start":3844.178,"end":3848.202,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":3864.156,"end":3877.145,"text":"以及相關的推動的程序以及相關的目標是這樣你才能逐步的去達成啊消費的擴大目標也是一樣啊我們現在不到200美元而且是衰退的日本是定在1300美元的你沒有目標"},{"start":3882.864,"end":3909.4,"text":"你怎麼去推動相關的觀光旅遊啊當一天和尚敲一天鐘這是普通的和尚當一天和尚被鐘撞一天這是比較悲劇性的和尚我來督促部長加油好謝謝委員好謝謝李坤哲委員那我們先確認一下義士路各位在場的委員對於這個義士路有沒有意見"},{"start":3911.721,"end":3927.954,"text":"好,沒有意見我們就亦事務確定。接下來有請許智傑委員發言。好,謝謝主席。我們請部長。好,陳部長。"},{"start":3939.292,"end":3957.875,"text":"部長我那個陳剛才李昆哲委員所提到的當一天和尚敲一天鐘這是基本的責任當一天和尚更要敲好一天鐘所以你那個鐘事實上就是說要怎麼樣把鐘敲得更好"},{"start":3958.922,"end":3985.355,"text":"我想這個是我們每一個人盡自己的責任要把它做最好的表現所以我是希望說我們的很多公務員的思想要慢慢的再去提升就是要敲好一天鐘而不是敲一天鐘而已好那我再請教一下部長現在雙城論壇有一個訴求就是說他們是不是上海的"},{"start":3986.533,"end":3999.779,"text":"入團可以開放到台灣來。那我們台灣其實很早很早很早就已經開放了嘛對不對?所以台灣開放我們台灣人到中國去旅遊的那個現在狀況怎麼樣?"},{"start":4001.159,"end":4026.645,"text":"報告委員目前應該是200多萬人吧,到中國旅遊的應該超過200多萬人。只是我們從3月開始開放。台灣到中國的旅遊其實都一向沒有限制,所以台灣人民要到中國去旅遊其實是相當自由的。對,所以你看我們是從3月開放,以前王國才還在當部長的時候,王國才部長那時候是說本來是要3月開放到6月。是。"},{"start":4027.659,"end":4042.805,"text":"然後6月之後事實上我們也沒有停嗎?所以也就是說我們交通部的角度、觀光署的角度是到現在一直都是開放的嗎?"},{"start":4044.652,"end":4064.725,"text":"呃有規劃的啦齁6月以前有規劃的其實都讓他們繼續再走對那我所知道到現在為止團科應該都還在對所以其實我就講說我們台灣對於中國的善意事實上我們已經有十組的善意是就等他們對等嘛是好那國民黨一直在講說我們貿易逆差"},{"start":4066.616,"end":4096.227,"text":"那你中國一直不開放,現在只在考慮上海是不是可以過來,坦白講那真的只是一點小會啦,不足掛詞啦,那你要的話你就全部都開放嘛,跟台灣一樣對等嘛,所以我想呼籲國民黨的藍白色的委員,啊你一直在講台灣,我們台灣已經釋出善意,啊現在中國不釋出善意,怎麼沒有聽到國民黨藍白的委員在罵中國呢?"},{"start":4098.22,"end":4114.749,"text":"每一次都只會對自己家人大小聲對外面的人就不敢吭聲所以其實我是覺得非常的沉痛我們也希望說政治歸政治經濟歸經濟但是呢你們不要看到中國就腳軟"},{"start":4117.353,"end":4138.894,"text":"所以這個是我希望說今天你們如果要呼籲的話就一起嘛你不要只是上海團嘛你就一起嘛全國都一樣嘛全中國都一樣嘛跟台灣對等嘛所以大家沒有看到台灣的善意只會對台灣罵來罵去我是覺得這個是藍白最大的問題所以我也在這邊很沉重的呼籲啦"},{"start":4141.186,"end":4166.77,"text":"好那那個再請教一下我們那個2024觀光產業數位博覽會那個部長去那邊看了覺得那個AI對我們觀光有沒有很大的幫助我相信數位有很大幫助包含說因為現在在缺工啦所以AI跟智慧化其實可以讓我們需要的人力可以減少對於旅宿業一定會有幫助所以這個除了在台北辦有沒有機會移市高雄"},{"start":4167.57,"end":4194.291,"text":"我們在台北辦的成效還蠻好的那其實去看的人也蠻多的那沒合到的也蠻多的沒合到的業者也蠻多那我有聽到說委員在指教說希望南部可以辦我們現在也正在評估因為我一直都在關注台北的活動跟高雄活動的差距那是不是以後我們每一次的在規劃活動的時候都能夠全國思考"},{"start":4195.626,"end":4203.921,"text":"而不是只是留在台北。當然台北發出第一炮我們是可以接受啦。但是第二炮總是到高雄來了吧。"},{"start":4205.063,"end":4233.388,"text":"好,那這個是不是請部長跟署長可以規劃?好,報告委員,這個我們已經有在規劃。委員,由此較這一點,我們就會往,對,臺北我們還是繼續啦。當然當然。但是在高雄我們在思考說要不要再辦第二場,那這個部分我們來盤點一下預算。所以一定要盡快思考,不是只是再思考。好。好,那再來就是說,其實剛剛那一頁先留著,那個,這個我們觀光署是不是有主動?"},{"start":4234.71,"end":4248.904,"text":"就對於旅遊又理數,遊樂又等。其實我曾經跟他們講說你們旅遊業或商圈,你們如果有希望用AI的角度來做思考,那我們台北這裡既然有一些經驗,"},{"start":4250.697,"end":4274.823,"text":"那是不是可以比如說到我們高雄找我們的商圈找我們的旅遊旅宿業做一個座談會或者是類似AI方面的技術的知識的傳遞然後讓基本上的店家旅遊旅宿業等他們可以知道說喔原來我可以這麼用"},{"start":4276.964,"end":4299.791,"text":"因為這些東西如果你沒有展覽沒有去親自去指導他們可能還不知道我可以如何去把AI應用進來所以這個know-how其實是很重要的所以是不是請觀光署也有機會規劃就是說我針對這樣子的旅遊旅宿業者我如何也可以有AI的應用到你們的產業裡面去幫助你們"},{"start":4302.239,"end":4328.442,"text":"那這個是不是你博覽會可能是針對所有的那個店家民營業者或者是人民都可以去看嘛那我針對店家的商店業的旅遊旅宿業的需求我直接去跟他們面對面去告訴他們這樣子一個好的訊息這個是不是可以可行是也許這樣子會幫助他們會更快"},{"start":4329.022,"end":4351.695,"text":"也需要,因為這叫做分享會,或者是一個研討的方式交流,那這個也是一個...我不知道台北有沒有要這樣子辦了啦。我們是有持續在辦,那這一次的那個等於是數位的博覽會是更是擴大,那剛剛委員所指教的部分,部長也有特別提示啦,我們會以南部"},{"start":4352.515,"end":4376.472,"text":"南部的期限式的角度來看能夠我希望能夠盡快就是說我也可以跟南部的旅遊旅宿業者講現在那個人家觀光署要來辦AI的那個知識的或者是AI的技術的應用的一個分享產學合作很重要是不是可以盡快做這種規劃其實讓他們盡快能用現在就是如剛剛部長所提的人力缺乏嘛"},{"start":4377.153,"end":4378.796,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":4388.154,"end":4388.294,"text":"好,那,"},{"start":4412.238,"end":4421.082,"text":"這個之外是不是其實我一直去拜訪很多的航空公司之外我有去拜訪泰國跟沖繩他們的觀光局"},{"start":4424.13,"end":4449.317,"text":"市長他們做的時候他們除了怎麼樣去吸引台灣旅客去他們國家而不是他們國家就帶我們台灣來是台灣旅客去他們國家那當然就是說我們觀光署設定了這麼多的推廣中心希望就是從各個國家的旅客到台灣來這個是我們觀光署去最主要的目的嘛那航線是不是可以一併思考"},{"start":4450.444,"end":4476.927,"text":"你沒有航線你就想要來都沒辦法來啊,不然就要拔刷過而已,拔過來放回去。所以你看印尼、雅加達在我們高雄的立場,我們高雄、南台灣到東南亞的人口數我想說不亞於北台灣啦。所以光是你可以去做調查,自從印尼、雅加達從南部去的可能不會比北部的少,但是呢我都要拔刷過而已。"},{"start":4478.211,"end":4485.16,"text":"所以這個航線如果說有機會高雄直接到雅加達我不知道這個觀光署有沒有在努力"},{"start":4486.748,"end":4512.163,"text":"報告委員,我們其實把高雄機場設定為整個新南向最重要的機場,那所以其實往東南亞的部分其實民航局要來努力,那當然觀光署也會針對這方面來努力,針對航線的部分,針對新南向的方向,我們一定會來努力爭取給高雄機場。總部長你還沒來之前,我這件事至少講了半年以上了,那不知道有沒有進度?"},{"start":4514.407,"end":4534.522,"text":"報告委員其實民航局一直在爭取要給高雄的這個機場可以更多的航線尤其是往東南亞的方向那這個跟航權的談判其實有一點關係所以這個部分還在進行我希望就是部長能夠再請民航局辛苦一點民航局很認真我知道觀光署也很認真但我告訴部長一個數據可能你會覺得很訝異"},{"start":4535.902,"end":4536.022,"text":"是,是。"},{"start":4549.492,"end":4568.667,"text":"你會聽到覺得很誇張對不對?所以我們的航線跟航量還要再增加啦。不是,停機品的,我光是停機品的問題。是是。部長可以去了解一下,請局長再跟你講解一下。好。啊就是停機品的問題,這人飛機要來,航空公司要來,沒有停機品給他們。是是。啊停機品現在要到40個,只有停20個,通貨純的。"},{"start":4571.733,"end":4595.418,"text":"有的是就是他們之間的約的問題或調配的問題。但是現在有十幾個差不多都經常都沒用到這樣啦。這個我想部長可能不見得清楚,但是請民航局長跟你說明一下。這個問題如果不解決,我要上這航班都有困難啦。所以這個也是個嚴重的問題。那也就是說高雄機場,我再舉個例子。遠東航空以前有飛機對不對?"},{"start":4597.871,"end":4623.256,"text":"在台北停了,停機坪停了一架,在高雄停了一架,現在台北那一架已經移走了,移走好久了,高雄那一架還停在那裡站位置,這太細了啦,但是部長你可能不清楚啦,但是我就說,高雄跟台北,高雄我們的公務員心態,那台飛機不敢動就是不敢動啦,啊英文在那站位啦,啊白人要用沒辦法用啦,"},{"start":4625.089,"end":4649.103,"text":"所以這個部分雖然比較細,希望說部長了解一下,請他們要做妥適的處理。看要怎麼解決,我們來想辦法解決。最後一件,給我30秒的時間,我簡單的要求一下,那個郵政博物館,那個董事長也知道,跟部長也知道一下就好,我是簡單的要求,就是說,台北分館跟高雄館從12月17日起,"},{"start":4653.115,"end":4679.586,"text":"禮拜六、禮拜天、國定假日、連續假期通通休館。現在是怎樣?報告委員其實我自己看了也覺得不太合理,所以我也有拜託王董事長齁,是不是在公司裡面要去做調整。你假日至少讓孩子有機會去看一天嘛。假日要啦要啦。假日通通休館。我的孩子們想要去都沒有機會啦,大家都休館快要去,現在休館通通休館。"},{"start":4680.806,"end":4703.779,"text":"這個部分我想希望說部長跟董事長這個做一個調整好不好現在大概跟部長討論就是朝禮拜一休館其他因應的時間來調整這樣沒關係你看怎麼調我沒有說一定要怎麼調但是我不能允許的就是所有的假日通通休館這個我不能接受是不是看怎麼調一下自己你們內部可以做調整好謝謝"},{"start":4708.117,"end":4734.84,"text":"好,謝謝許委員。接下來有請林國成委員發言。好,謝謝主席。請陳部長、陳部長、周署長、周署長。好,部長、署長。"},{"start":4736.818,"end":4751.783,"text":"剛才我們許智傑我們未來的市長說你們都很認真我認為你們一點都不認真不但不認真還在議事殿堂說謊話我請問一下你們現在大陸對等的問題你們進團令解了沒有"},{"start":4763.507,"end":4765.788,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質。"},{"start":4785.082,"end":4805.854,"text":"藍白議員為了觀光我也幾次跟部長跟署長建議觀光不能有政治你管他幹什麼你來消費我就歡迎所以這個部分所以你的問題禁團令都沒有所以我跟你講我今天坦白講"},{"start":4807.781,"end":4832.452,"text":"談到藍白這跟藍白有什麼關係這個政策是你們在制定我們只是建議盡快這種觀光本來就是對等那我問你啊那你說對等兩個字我請問一下日本來台灣多少人我們去日本多少人那也不對等嘛但是報告委員日本沒有限制他們的國民來台灣旅遊"},{"start":4834.213,"end":4852.693,"text":"為什麼我們禁團令不能解呢?中國目前有禁止他們的民眾來台灣旅遊。人家說上海要來觀光,請問一下這有什麼不好呢?所以不要什麼東西都是藍白,如果是這樣的話觀光就不會蓬勃發展嘛,這種東西很簡單。"},{"start":4855.456,"end":4874.289,"text":"政策我們尊重但是適可而止的禁止來達到對等我贊成我贊成不要我也反對啊我到任何一個地方我都反對對岸一大七小的政策這個我到哪邊我都反對啊"},{"start":4875.129,"end":4894.785,"text":"我跟你講我們是小兒美國家我們要談對等我同意但是不要動不動就說我們南白好像這個進團是我們南白所定的不能這樣這對我們所有的立法委員都不公平我們立法委員是政策制定由政府來做"},{"start":4895.265,"end":4916.578,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":4916.792,"end":4931.66,"text":"但是我還是要建議觀光要有多元化到現在我們觀光的政策完完全全都是停頓自然而生存那種心態是不對的"},{"start":4933.195,"end":4955.441,"text":"觀光的東西當然要跟交通連結這一點我是很同意因為我認為不管任何人執政觀光跟交通是要連結的所以我還是真的蠻希望但是有一點觀光的安全也是很重要安全也是很重要所以在這裡我要特別這個圖片"},{"start":4958.417,"end":4969.751,"text":"這個看一下來署長你看一下這個部長也剛來不久請問一下這個在阿里山這件事情報紙刊登之後"},{"start":4970.854,"end":4985.88,"text":"你們才開始處理我請問一下你們現在處理的怎麼可以把所有的觀光客帶在這個鐵路裡面在那邊玩耍在那邊做這些動作我請問部長請問署長你們現在"},{"start":4989.481,"end":5004.854,"text":"觀光署如何處理這個旅行社?如何處理?報告委員這個齁他沒有注意到旅客的安全這個對旅行社一定會做開罰除了旅行社之外對於帶團的現場人員也應該要做開罰這個部分我是不是請署長來回答"},{"start":5006.496,"end":5029.875,"text":"這件事情有兩個層面一個是鐵路法所以剛剛也跟林業署的華信署長也交換過意見他們就用鐵路法直接開法第二個是我們因為是帶團所以旅行社的部分我們就最重是五萬那麼帶團人員最重是一萬五所以我們人跟旅行社業者都開法是"},{"start":5030.535,"end":5034.817,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":5055.647,"end":5080.376,"text":"這個我們把問題民意代表就把問題點出來如何上後如何解決當然要你們主管機關去做我覺得這個是萬萬不可取得己動怎麼可以把所有旅客帶到那個危險的地方更何況是違規的地方這個是不對的因為導遊掌握到整個這些安全跟舒適"},{"start":5081.716,"end":5088.658,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並"},{"start":5110.723,"end":5125.312,"text":"包括上次署長都是什麼老思想從來沒有改變從來沒有替百姓從來沒有替觀光政策去做過很多努力這點我特別跟部長投訴一下"},{"start":5126.554,"end":5145.881,"text":"另外一個大家都知道阿里山真的是世界文明的地方當然因為觀光的問題主管單位很多但是不管怎麼樣觀光署一定要去做到這些所以安全也很重要來"},{"start":5147.481,"end":5169.991,"text":"阿里山這裡面,也就是阿里山的三美村的建到段列,到現在修了沒有?報告委員這個是鄉管的啦。鄉公所。鄉公所。要督促啦。對,我們也跟那個就像委員提示的就是我們跟文化觀光局也"},{"start":5170.931,"end":5174.652,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":5190.678,"end":5211.323,"text":"就一定是有危急的所以這個部分因為我們觀光署本來不是就只要做觀光的發展嗎那安全第一個沒有辦法安全請問未來如何發展所以這點部長我還是拜託你要督促觀光署一下尤其"},{"start":5212.463,"end":5234.599,"text":"我常跟私底下去做考察的時候我都跟他們建議我說我們要多元化建議嘛有時候這麼好的場地你可以辦辦年輕人的活動啊可以帆船的帆船啊可以賽車的賽車啊這種人這個觀光的政策只要一致定你說要不要去編列預算不一定喔"},{"start":5235.936,"end":5236.637,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5258.619,"end":5283.312,"text":"為老百姓做事情真的要動一點頭腦要動一點頭腦所以這個部分我還是要拜託那最後剛才我們同仁在提的也就是博物館這個事這個要列入觀光的一種啦不要禮拜六禮拜天人家是在休閒人家要去看結果你不讓人家看這點我還要拜託我們王董事長啊我說實在的"},{"start":5283.652,"end":5286.194,"text":"我還是建議我蠻贊同就是禮拜六禮拜天真的不要說不開館這一點我還是要建議一下好不好部長所以這個我要拜託你"},{"start":5307.927,"end":5321.452,"text":"要談觀光。第一個,你們政策的制定,要把它制定好。第二個,要有多元化跟安全的管理,這很重要的啦。好不好?保留。好,謝謝。好,謝謝林委員。接下來有請林俊憲委員發言。"},{"start":5337.24,"end":5363.933,"text":"謝謝主席。本席要請我們交通部陳部長。陳部長。我們觀光署周署長。周署長。委員好。部長好。部長現在在雙城論壇上海副市長到台灣來了。是。他說在雙城論壇上他宣布要推動什麼上海路客團來台灣。是。"},{"start":5365.822,"end":5389.71,"text":"所以那到底誰禁止來?很清楚啦,他自己承認他禁止啦,所以他才要推動開放啊。沒錯啊。對不對?如果中國沒有禁止,那上海副市長為什麼說他要推動開放旅客團來台灣?是。那我再請教部長,中國禁止旅客團來台灣嗎?是不是這樣?中國有禁止,有。那禁止他們團客不能過來嗎?對,他們團客不能過來,沒有錯。"},{"start":5395.185,"end":5423.172,"text":"那假設有假設他們有自由行的人那中國政府允許他們來台灣嗎?報告委員他們自由行的部分除了專案之外也是不允許的所以他們現在是團客跟自由行都不允許他們的國民來到台灣所以這個你要講清楚啊所以中國政府不允許他們的團客和自由行的到台灣來旅遊是不是這樣?沒有錯沒有錯嘛好那台灣的態度是怎麼樣?"},{"start":5424.264,"end":5436.546,"text":"我們其實對於觀光客我們都是歡迎,如果是有序的觀光我們都是非常的歡迎。台灣其實跟日本也是觀光逆差,台灣人喜歡到日本去,"},{"start":5438.459,"end":5455.676,"text":"但至少兩邊都是互相開放。是,沒有錯。這個很重要。日本並沒有禁止他們的國民,無論是參加旅遊團或者是自由行來到台灣,他們是相當開放的。日本也沒有禁止日本人到台灣來觀光。沒有,沒有,完全沒有。其實任何國家開放觀光都應該這樣子,都應該互相開放。"},{"start":5457.376,"end":5481.143,"text":"為什麼現在國內很多的包括旅遊工會啦、旅遊業者啦都認為、都誤解是我們禁止陸客來?你知不知道?報告委員齁。有很多人來找我們陳情。我說你、我就跟他們講你搞錯對象了吧。這個應該是去呼籲北京要開放。你應該要請中國政府開放。"},{"start":5482.365,"end":5510.128,"text":"讓他們的團客甚至自由行的客人可以到台灣來你不是來要求我們要開放嗎?是不是這樣?是,報告委員我也一直在拜託我們的觀光業者或者是相關的工協會可以跟著我們一起來呼籲中國方面可以解除對於觀光上面政治的這個干擾跟政治上面的限制再比較一下嘛今年入客來台灣現在大概32萬人那台灣"},{"start":5511.806,"end":5534.401,"text":"到中國旅遊的現在大概有230萬,所以是哪一邊限制這個很清楚嘛,是不是?現在去的非常多來的非常少。中國十幾億人怎麼可能只有三十幾萬人來台灣,他們幾乎都禁止了,所以現在是禁止,好啊,不管怎麼樣啦,那現在兩邊有沒有在談?"},{"start":5536.537,"end":5550.845,"text":"兩邊有沒有在談開放?這個部分其實不需要談,開放就是開放。像我們現在自由行的旅客可以過去,我們也不需要跟他談,我們自己就是開放。但是所謂的他們開放會有一些徵兆。"},{"start":5552.199,"end":5552.799,"text":"再來再請教一下"},{"start":5584.6,"end":5612.558,"text":"現在我記得我幾年前有要求交通部要去注意一下現在很多人出國旅遊都會訂房了對不對都會透過網站去訂房對但在網路上你訂的房的旅館啦或者民宿啦其實是政府是沒有辦法消費者也沒有辦法去分別到那這個民宿或者旅館你訂的是不是合法的"},{"start":5613.672,"end":5632.972,"text":"市長民眾大概不知道但政府都會知道。會知道嗎?政府都會知道。那知道為什麼讓非法的還在網上?報告委員其實這個是地方政府要去查核但我們有跟他們配合到目前為止今年到目前為止查了才罰了一千三百多我講的是在罰了一億多我講的是在網站上面啊對對對"},{"start":5634.793,"end":5662.059,"text":"在網站上面我我最早提出質詢是五年前我說因為啊你非法的旅宿業者啊第一個消費者權益也沒有保障萬一發生消費糾紛怎麼辦當時的交通部說他會道德勸說啦這些訂房的網站不要來刊登這些非法的旅宿業者"},{"start":5663.376,"end":5665.318,"text":"然後交通部當時說他們會去想辦法解決這個問題。"},{"start":5669.588,"end":5695.39,"text":"四、五年到現在,請問還是一樣道德勸說嗎?委員所關心的應該分兩個,一個叫我們叫境內,一個叫境外。境外的部分比如說Airbnb,境內。你說的是網站是什麼樣的網站。境內的部分我們都是直接查處。22個縣市政府他們都有表達說他預算有限,什麼人力有限,我們也"},{"start":5696.391,"end":5696.891,"text":"其實你應該要要求嘛。"},{"start":5719.077,"end":5732.341,"text":"你如果要到他的網站上,去看的房,你要有license,你要有營業登記才可以上。所以這些網站不可以為了賺錢,來者不分青紅皂白,一點管理也沒有。難道觀光署有沒有什麼做法?"},{"start":5747.672,"end":5769.979,"text":"針對境外的部分,我們是跟訴發部有保持聯繫了。聯繫了好幾年,還是在聯繫?聯繫中?沒有沒有,有幾個具體的做法。但是最重要的還是境內啦。境外的部分,因為訴發部他們也覺得有些在法令上還在談。網站上的刊登廣告,地方政府沒有辦法啦。"},{"start":5770.379,"end":5793.268,"text":"但地方政府他會去,我就用台,還有一些是真的是消費者啦,要特別注意,我都有license上去,我用市政府查獲的,台北市政府查獲的非法的旅宿業者名單,去各大網站搜尋都找得到,他還是廣告還是在上面,那你叫消費者分辨,怎麼去分辨?"},{"start":5795.886,"end":5805.085,"text":"消費者通常都在網站上訂嘛你如果來源管理你非法的業者不應該在上面可以營業嘛這最簡單的嘛"},{"start":5808.513,"end":5810.034,"text":"我幫你查一下你的流量好不好?"},{"start":5840.744,"end":5854.588,"text":"你應該這個問題要解決吧你平台要下架非法旅宿啦好不好上架以前其實這些網路平台就應該審核你是不是有旅宿月的登記證號嘛"},{"start":5856.178,"end":5863.563,"text":"三個月內下架,其實這個下架只要一秒鐘就可以了,也給你,那時候都是交通部的承諾了,然後要求境外的訂房網站,"},{"start":5876.432,"end":5897.473,"text":"在台灣要設立公司要落地才可以開啟業務來符合消費者權利為了教育糾紛的一個保障全部也沒做啊我跟你講這些所謂的非法的旅宿啦尤其這網路上面有一些齁都是黃賭賭啦所以詐騙機房啦以前都查獲過啦這是一個治安的死角啦"},{"start":5899.853,"end":5915.241,"text":"請將觀光署處理下這個問題好不好?是是就持續再再好謝謝局長好謝謝部長好謝謝署長謝謝委員好謝謝主席好謝謝林委員接下來有請廖先祥委員發言好"},{"start":5927.328,"end":5932.051,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩我們的陳部長。好,陳部長、周署長。周署長。好,謝謝部長、謝謝署長。人生就是這麼的巧合啦。這個今天我們排交通的觀光,觀光的專題報告昨天上來就宣布要開放來台旅客嘛。那讓大家這個案子變成大家今天討論的一個重點啦。"},{"start":5955.169,"end":5982.315,"text":"對於兩岸的觀光現在雙方都沒有全面的開放嗎?那我們在討論兩岸的問題的時候您比較傾向於善意的堆疊還是惡意的螺旋?我們當然希望善意的堆疊。希望善意的堆疊嘛對不對?所以從過去從今年開始從福建開放他們的旅客到我們的離島觀光這件事情宣布之後也開始執行之後我們後續有任何的回應嗎?"},{"start":5984.502,"end":5993.124,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":6004.867,"end":6016.126,"text":"有嗎?有任何的回應嗎?報告委員目前台灣所有的人民要到中國去旅遊就是自由。團客的部分啦。我覺得說從那時候之後有沒有任何上面政策的改變?到現在都還有團客在中國旅遊。"},{"start":6016.912,"end":6040,"text":"到現在還有,就之前沒有取消掉的嘛,但現在不能新招了嘛。我是跟你討論政策。從福建開放到我們離島之後,我們這邊沒有任何政策上面的一個回應。好,現在上海的居民可以來到台灣來做觀光旅遊。那我想請教一下部長,您剛剛說您傾向於善意的堆疊而不是惡意的螺旋。"},{"start":6040.6,"end":6066.389,"text":"那善意的堆疊現在對岸又釋出了一個善意讓上海來台灣我們這邊會不會有任何政策上面的一個回應針對我們去道路的近環利的方面的調整?會不會有?中國方面有辦法這樣限制他們人民的出遊齁才能夠例如說開放就上海來台灣我不可能...我在詢問中華民國交通部長我不是詢問"},{"start":6067.429,"end":6086.081,"text":"中華人民共和國的倫理部長啦,你講在那邊幹嘛?我們當然希望善意的堆疊啦。對,那他們堆起來了,我們有沒有任何堆回去?有沒有任何在上面堆回去?還是認為要相當對等啦。好。我跟委員報告。好,所以他們的善意,我們並沒有任何的善意回去,你認為對等。那您認為的對等是怎樣?"},{"start":6086.681,"end":6115.068,"text":"我們的善意其實非常的多啦跟委員報告我們的自由行一直都是開放的他們的自由行到現在沒有開放第二點我們的團客其實3到5月是有開放的他們也沒有任何的這個又在翻舊帳了啦不是翻舊帳部長我們在講善意的堆疊就是你釋出善意我釋出善意而不是說你做了什麼你過去怎麼樣這叫惡意的螺旋好不好部長所以針對上海昨天宣布要來我們台灣之後"},{"start":6116.072,"end":6132.308,"text":"我們交通部會不會討論任何的一個政策上面的一個討論來去做相關的回應?會不會啦?目前以我們的理解啦,上海方面的副市長有這麼說了,但他們的文旅部還沒有做最後的決定。好,如果決定了,我們會不會有回應?他決定了我們就會來討論。會討論?會不會適度的放寬?我不會說要求你全面開放,"},{"start":6138.334,"end":6139.114,"text":"好,那就拜託部長,這個您說的話,"},{"start":6168.359,"end":6191.827,"text":"要做到我沒有叫你全面開放但是什麼樣子的一個善意的回應是讓你認為沒有上司兩岸對等的交流的前提下我們來做一個回應那我跟部長確認觀光的政策開放要不要解除進團令是您可以決定的嗎不是單就交通部的立場就可以決定並不是嗎並不是好那您的立場會是"},{"start":6193.703,"end":6194.406,"text":"我們會比較傾向歡迎。歡迎,不然我說不然,禁團令是我們過去的禁團令啦。"},{"start":6200.526,"end":6228.352,"text":"我們過去的淨團令,我們過去的淨團令其實如果中國可以整個開放的話我覺得我們就有那個條件而且要能夠確保我們的旅客的安全的狀況底下我們就會有那個條件可以開放所以您的就是說當然要不要逐步釋出算議剛剛部長有給承諾嘛會討論但要不要全面開放就是全面的解讀淨團令的前提是大陸方面也有沒有全面解除他們來台的旅客的限制"},{"start":6228.792,"end":6253.751,"text":"他們如果可以直接解除對我們來講就是一個很好的善意嘛,那這個部分其實就有對等,那第二對我們來講我們的旅客到中國去要確保他們的安全,因為我們到目前為止確實有看到有一些團客過去中國的時候有被留下來盤查滯留的狀況也是有發生的,我們很擔心我們的團客開放之後過去安全能不能確保,如果能確保當然我們可以朝正向的,好不好?"},{"start":6254.011,"end":6258.573,"text":"部長我知道政黨會有政黨的堅持,執政黨當然會有執政黨的堅持,那部長你們有沒有統計過因為今年這個大陸沒有開放旅客來台灣,那我們兩岸的觀光逆差"},{"start":6271.394,"end":6277.136,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":6297.741,"end":6321.464,"text":"對等的交流,全面開放,這一只是你們的論述嗎?但是我們是中華民國的官員,我們應該要優先考慮我們台灣觀光旅客的一個生計。對岸已經釋出3億了,人願意來了,我不知道他為什麼會挑上海,我在想有一個原因可能是上海的常住人口跟台灣的常住人口差不多,所以他這個可能是他選擇上海的一個原因,我猜的啦。"},{"start":6322.665,"end":6351.317,"text":"他認為人口一樣啦那你要不要這個做出善意善意的回應嗎但是對岸沒有的對岸的旅客沒有來台灣的時候受損最大的受損最大的是我們台灣的觀光業者不管是剛剛旅座業者還是我們的觀光業者我們一直在爭取對岸可以開放他們的禁令對所以說我們除了嘴巴講我們也必須要給他們一個適應的適度的善意的對點回應好不好這個就拜託部長"},{"start":6351.897,"end":6376.243,"text":"那針對剛剛有委員提到這個對日的觀光逆差啦我們大概一年的觀光逆差會到多少?可能以今年來說?目前來講的話我們去的比例確實是比較高對因為會突破出境的啦那入境的話目前大概預估大概140萬是"},{"start":6378.308,"end":6399.699,"text":"那產值的部分呢?對,產值的話要算,因為現在目前來講因為幣值啊在日本的因為幣值的關係所以在那邊的消費是比較方便對,所以我們要在最後再做統計。好吧,那我當然希望說現在日本跟我們這邊兩邊的觀光旅客是沒有任何的限制。那既然我們去了那麼多的"},{"start":6401.052,"end":6405.273,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":6422.108,"end":6438.326,"text":"三方面的我們的旅客一直過去他們這邊來的人數非常的少。好吧那最後問部長一個問題那在大陸禁止我們禁止他們的人民來到台灣的這部分的這段期間有沒有任何的旅團的申請觀光簽證"},{"start":6439.767,"end":6458.359,"text":"到跟我們台灣方面來申請有沒有任何的觀光簽證申請有專案的部分我們是有但是都是專案觀光目的事業主管機關如果是我們觀光的相關的業者的話那當然是觀光署來合是"},{"start":6459.139,"end":6484.262,"text":"那他們都是有那所有送的你們都有合嗎還是有部分沒合只要我們觀光署都有合只要是觀光的目的他們過來我們台灣的那有些需要簽證的有些參訪的話對對有些參訪我們觀光的部分都會合好謝謝那就麻煩部長剛剛一開始您講的3億的堆疊是比2億的螺旋提升更好那我希望不是嘴巴講而是實際的作為好不好謝謝好謝謝委員"},{"start":6489.109,"end":6509.156,"text":"好,謝謝廖委員。好,做以下宣告,待會發言到我本人,魯明介委員發言完畢之後休息10分鐘,接下來請陳素悅召委發言。好,謝謝主席,請主席,要請陳部長還有周署長。陳部長,周署長。"},{"start":6516.645,"end":6524.151,"text":"部長、署長早。今天就是針對我們觀光署還有觀光發展基金進行預算的詢問。本席在這邊先請教就是說我們觀光署掛牌剛好滿一年了。我有看到最近署長在掛牌滿一年的相關的慶祝活動。"},{"start":6542.264,"end":6546.728,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質及所屬單位預算。"},{"start":6568.621,"end":6592.007,"text":"因為我看你這個媒體寫的是每年增加10億應該是那個媒體的新聞報導有有一點對他內容是有寫了未來4年內未來4年內他最後一段寫錯沒有因為我覺得說每年增加10億這個很可觀欸那不曉得我們要怎麼做所以我也特別去盤點了一下啦過去這幾年"},{"start":6594.348,"end":6600.334,"text":"我盤點了一下我們這幾年來就是有關這個觀光署在行銷推展費裡面的這個費用包括國際行銷的一個宣傳費從111年就是佔了這個51.89%的"},{"start":6609.222,"end":6614.705,"text":"國際宣傳費是12.92億,那112年、113年、114年就像表列的這樣子。那明年度就是114年我們就是編了17.94億,就是如同剛剛署長所說的嘛,大概增加2.5億這樣子的經費。那我們看到其實這樣的一個宣傳經費是蠻龐大的,所以我們也要去"},{"start":6636.195,"end":6650.512,"text":"我覺得我們都要去定期的做一個檢討說我們花了這麼多的一個宣傳費到底效果好不好有沒有花在這個刀口上我覺得這個我都要去好好的做一個檢討跟盤點"},{"start":6656.607,"end":6669.008,"text":"像我們觀光署啊就是這個影片就是說都會拍這個影片嘛做廣告那我不曉得說我們第一年來所拍的影片署長你有沒有覺得最成功的有沒有"},{"start":6670.368,"end":6693.319,"text":"我們目前主題式的宣傳的影片是最好,譬如說有些,譬如喜歡生態旅遊的或溯溪的,那他有一個主題式的,那他們就是那是等於是分眾,那我們這次也跟委員報告一下,我們那個3.0版的台灣品牌,我們接著有春夏秋冬四季,"},{"start":6694.439,"end":6719.946,"text":"它必須要一波一波一波的那剛剛的宣傳的費用裡面也包括我們駐地比如說我們明天會在菲律賓的馬尼拉設置我們的TTIC就台灣這個Taiwan Tourism Information Center那在那邊做這個駐地的這個宣傳大概我們平均來講那個效果會特別好等於是365天都在做宣傳服務的推廣"},{"start":6721.386,"end":6737.533,"text":"您有沒有去檢討一下你們拍的影片這個點閱率到底這個流量到底有多少?因為我們看到最近也有就是在網路上也有網友在丟一支影片這個是"},{"start":6738.533,"end":6750.745,"text":"一個台灣留學生自製的行銷台灣的影片結果網友他們評論說這個比官方製作的還吸引人然後他的我看他這個觀看的次數也達到182萬次所以我們做的會比這個還高嗎?有比這個還高嗎?"},{"start":6760.99,"end":6784.546,"text":"還有一些主題啦,宣傳影片還包括一些網紅,我們有網紅,譬如說我們曾經在日月潭拍那個影片的時候,那這個點閱率有500萬,那要一些故事的鋪陳,那我們通常來講是有好幾個層次,那委員特別提的黃小梅,她確實也是一個很在地的網紅,那我們也有跟她做一些合作。"},{"start":6786.627,"end":6803.1,"text":"其實目前就是說很多網紅他們可能會有針對日常的美食的或者是旅遊景點的各種不同的這樣子特色的一個網紅我們也應該可以善用這些網紅的一個流量然後打造地方深度的觀光的商機"},{"start":6804.161,"end":6805.803,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部部長陳世凱、交通部長陳世凱、交通部長陳世凱、交通部長陳世凱、"},{"start":6821.142,"end":6846.165,"text":"蓋東樹也爆紅了就是被稱為里多會樹也吸引很多人會去那邊打卡所以我覺得說這個網紅的這個宣傳的效果也是蠻有這個影響力的啦所以我覺得說其實這樣子的配合網紅的經費我想應該不會很高我覺得應該是就是說要多利用這樣子的一個流量來形象我們就是台灣的一些"},{"start":6846.944,"end":6865.647,"text":"警點及深度旅遊報告委員其實觀光署一直都有在做他們跟各國的網紅都有在做合作但我覺得委員今天的建議非常好我們是不是未來比例上我們比例上在地方的網紅也好各國的網紅幫我們推廣觀光的比例可以把它拉高一點"},{"start":6866.227,"end":6868.95,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":6885.407,"end":6885.447,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":6902.398,"end":6918.115,"text":"其實整個國際跟未來的一個趨勢就是減碳減碳這個議題也是非常的一個重要那曾經也有就是這個業者也有講過就是說未來這個"},{"start":6920.778,"end":6945.538,"text":"檢探會成為就是這個商務課他選擇的一個重要的一個條件所以其實就我們在吸引外國的觀光客來台灣的時候也有不同的客群嘛是一般的觀光客或者是商務課等等我想應該這個都有不同的一個客群那就這個商務課來說因為如果說我們台灣的旅宿業的這個檢探"},{"start":6947.439,"end":6969.337,"text":"就是說在沒有一個公告就是說在網站上他們沒有辦法提供這個探資訊的話可能會造成國外旅客來台灣的時候他們的一個選擇他們可能會去選擇比較低碳的城市可能就是新加坡、曼谷等等所以就這個政策來說請教部長您的看法、想法如何"},{"start":6969.817,"end":6995.958,"text":"報告委員其實這個減碳相當重要那我們的旅書業其實大家也都很努力我們在明年的時候應該一次性的備品大概就不會主動提供這個部分我們會來做那尤其是在觀光旅館的部分因為觀光署比較有辦法管轄是觀光旅館那會優先並且加強來做減少碳排那另外就是飲用水的部分最近環保環境部也有在提說這個塑膠瓶的這個"},{"start":6997.419,"end":7026.049,"text":"減速的政策那這個部分觀光署也會來配合來鼓勵我們的這個旅宿業者不要提供這個瓶裝式的礦泉水那這個部分也是會由這個觀光的旅館先來推廣是好那就是說我們已經有逐漸朝向就是說希望來禁止提供這個一次性的備品那我想這個應該也就是要有一個一個宣導然後一個階段性的一個實施那未來就是說在整個旅宿業的"},{"start":7026.909,"end":7033.102,"text":"則是網站上有關這個檢探的一個資訊的一個揭露我不曉得目前做的如何"},{"start":7034.051,"end":7056.943,"text":"報告委員其實在明年我們就是政策上面其實就強制性全面不提供所以這個部分其實就會照這樣的政策推廣下去那我想一般的旅客其實大家也會去適應也會開始適應就自己帶或者說變成說你必須要去跟旅宿業者要或者是要買才會有"},{"start":7058.024,"end":7087.313,"text":"我們有一個政策就是說我們最高可以補助10萬元希望能夠更新做綠色旅宿有補助了那另外就是說其實消費者他們也更關心的就是說如果不提供一次性的備品的話那在這個房價上是不是要降價才對不然的話就是說我其實目前國民的就是我們國內的民眾啊他們的感受就是說我們的這個旅館的費用太高了"},{"start":7088.073,"end":7097.782,"text":"如果住了那麼貴的飯店然後沒有一次性的備品那在這個價格上如果沒有給予優惠的話他們會可能寧可去國外旅遊"},{"start":7098.627,"end":7099.348,"text":"最近有一個就是"},{"start":7124.448,"end":7140.25,"text":"一個網友他在臉書上有分享就是說他的朋友去入住我們台北的這個希爾頓飯店的時候結果一打開這個電視啊連八台都是中國的這個頻道我想請問一下這個是合法的嗎"},{"start":7141.963,"end":7162.991,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們有加強宣導那民眾所說的這間飯店他那個八個頻道也都已經下架了都下架了都已經下架了是那我們應該就是說要求我們交通部還有觀光署這邊對於旅宿業者就是有關這個電視頻道的這個節目的提供應該要有就是"},{"start":7164.051,"end":7164.312,"text":"二、一、"},{"start":7174.38,"end":7196.643,"text":"我們也會通令給地方政府大家一起來宣導那也一起來管制說這個沒有得到台灣的主管單位允許的頻道不應該讓他上架是啊因為來到台灣然後結果打開電視看的是中國的節目那這樣子會讓外國旅客可能會混淆了到底到了哪一個國家了我們是民主自由的台灣"},{"start":7197.704,"end":7214.02,"text":"與中國極權專制是不一樣的一個國家所以我們希望在這部分我們交通部跟觀光署這邊應該要嚴格的去執行就是禁止飯店做這樣子的行為我們也會積極跟地方政府來溝通跟配合好謝謝好謝謝我們陳樹葉召委那現在請我們魯明哲召委"},{"start":7232.321,"end":7238.421,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我請我們交通部陳部長。陳部長。觀光署周署長。好,周署長。"},{"start":7243.649,"end":7243.769,"text":"五、二、零"},{"start":7274.469,"end":7276.63,"text":"兩岸之間我們是順差,而且順差大概一千多億的美金,"},{"start":7303.121,"end":7319.592,"text":"兩岸之間的貿易順差的話,其實台灣在整個世界來看,非常可能逆差。所以這個當然我們就沒有意見嘛。EGFA最好不要取消,這如果會表示好多了嘛。所以我在想,不見得每一件事都是我們談的樣樣樣,我們覺得"},{"start":7322.888,"end":7326.129,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":7347.824,"end":7349.205,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":7367.011,"end":7372.514,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":7384.639,"end":7401.935,"text":"我們的業者台灣也希望能夠賺錢啦好不好尤其觀光業者甚至有一些到民間的一些業者在過去早期的時候在有開放客來台的時間最高的時候啊差不多我們來台旅客的含量超過400萬啦"},{"start":7403.564,"end":7406.687,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":7423.662,"end":7444.46,"text":"上海團他們特別說願意開放上海的居民來台旅遊那你剛剛有說那你現在的是不是到底可不可以做到因為我們希望來台然後這邊花錢讓我們的產業賺錢這是我覺得觀光才的一個目標你的想法怎麼樣"},{"start":7444.94,"end":7444.96,"text":"好。"},{"start":7462.338,"end":7478.27,"text":"因為我們記憶沒錯的話金門馬祖也是中華民國的一部分吧所以金門馬祖已經開放了這個金馬開放福建4000萬人先行去座的旅遊啊那個署長請問一下當時金馬開放是誰宣布的"},{"start":7481.382,"end":7507.207,"text":"這是陸委會的權責不是陸委會宣布,我說對岸是誰宣布的嘛你們一直在計較上海市長、副市長宣布的我就請問一下,請問一下是誰宣布的,你還記得嗎?到最後9月21號公告是誰公告的啊?我回憶一下就是福建省公安廳發的公告嘛那你那時候為什麼講公安廳莫名其妙為什麼不是文旅部?拜託啦"},{"start":7508.087,"end":7511.51,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質。"},{"start":7526.644,"end":7555.575,"text":"那可是你再計較這個到底是因為當現在金馬現在開放他也沒有也不是文旅部啦所以我拜託宣布當你們實務的對接該怎麼對接我們真的是希望能夠展開啦報告教委在交通部跟觀光署的部分您這樣指教其實我覺得很合理就是說該對接的部分我們能做的範圍啦我們來對接看看有時候不是我們能對接的上啦但是我們能做的我們先來做做看"},{"start":7556.275,"end":7579.716,"text":"對你對接之後搞不好他是騙人嘛那騙人大家就講清楚了不要卡在這裡這麼難過嘛直接就去對接一下啦那我們希望在台灣觀光的一個產值能夠能夠把這個台灣有一些又去偏遠的地方啊不過是真的沒有辦法現在很多我們的人數啊很多的商務客他集中在都市他辦事為主"},{"start":7580.296,"end":7581.858,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":7596.065,"end":7599.75,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":7613.595,"end":7626.163,"text":"目前就金門縣啦金馬現在有開放嘛剛開始我想看到一些負面新聞說根本沒料來啦開放也是假的但是我們就是在兩個月9月27號說開放正式第一團來10月5號到12月9號為止差不多兩個月的時間"},{"start":7633.928,"end":7661.157,"text":"我們昨天跟金門縣政府拿到的一個最新的統計資料因為他們吞吐量又有限啦船就那麼多嘛所以也拜託你們是不是航港局能夠多開一點航班報告委員這個趙偉這個我們有在有在進行我知道我們只是在想說當年歸零的時刻到現在為止平均平均喔這將近兩個月多一點的時間金門縣就是大陸觀光客"},{"start":7661.837,"end":7665.018,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":7689.184,"end":7712.162,"text":"您做過發言人對其他的部會也多有認識是不是大家能夠成真心聚在一起討論一下這個議題啦看看能不能我們就接了因為反正金馬這個球也接了嘛也接了嘛是不是能夠這個球是不是大概多久能夠召開這樣的一個會議不過跟委員報告一下像馬祖平均的話"},{"start":7713.323,"end":7739.247,"text":"他應該平均每日約400人可是他現在平均每日不到100人雖然是開放但是在量很少我在講金門啊我在講金門那你們那個船班你們是要去研究一下那最後我想今天這個做結論所以我覺得我們現在問一下觀光署好不好你們現在因為我們現在我們一直在說這個有些"},{"start":7742,"end":7764.876,"text":"網紅去大陸不管是配合他們做旅遊的行銷城市的介紹等等也在台灣掀起了軒然大波我倒是沒有辦法判定誰對誰錯我沒有辦法判定但是我只是想說我們觀光署有沒有去找大陸的網紅來到底有沒有來去做我們台灣的不管是景點的宣傳台灣的美台灣的好有沒有做這樣的事"},{"start":7765.696,"end":7794.469,"text":"我們還是有做了。但是就是...我們是不是也是有統戰對岸的性質嗎?不是這樣講,我們總是要介紹台灣的美好的景點啊,然後也要把22個縣市推介出去啊,所以有些最基本的還是有的啊。所以這個算辦統戰啊?我們算辦統戰啊?我們當然是只就觀光談觀光啊,不會有...就是來...他的網紅來這裡回去會不會被法辦?因為拿了你政府的錢?"},{"start":7795.189,"end":7823.551,"text":"不過一樣我們倒過來這樣講嘛就是因為這是現在進行式啦公平講他拿了我們中華民國政府的錢然後回去他會被辦啦你要注意一下但我看到你每一年齁沒有今年今年到底辦了沒有齁邀請知名旅遊網紅合作計畫約人民幣13萬113年這個部分辦了沒有那就是台灣燈會有時候會有特定的沒有沒有這個錢花了沒有嘛找了沒有"},{"start":7824.867,"end":7829.529,"text":"執行了沒有?你們剛剛執行了嗎?有執行了嗎?那有請廈門的這個姓街的網紅跟張璇兩位網紅來幫忙,有吧?請廈門的這個旅遊達人陳誠來做深度介紹,這有做沒有?都做了嘛,所以那明年呢?明年一樣嘛,明年你們也編了"},{"start":7853.234,"end":7855.095,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":7869.66,"end":7874.623,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":7897.937,"end":7914.687,"text":"問一下中華郵政,抱歉抱歉,對不起,因為超過時間,不好意思。這個因為我們看到我們講本業啦,我知道你們這幾年因為你剛到任啦,我也不是說在講怪你啦,就是中華郵政我覺得有時候要面對一下,"},{"start":7915.467,"end":7939.435,"text":"有歸零思考的我知道你們比如說儲蓄甚至保險很努力啊去拉保險這個部分可是你中華郵政其實有個本業啦就是郵務業務郵務你們的稅購盡力啊我們就算了這6年從2019年開始是一路下滑一路下滑到今年到今年2024年還沒過完啦現在已經負14.1億啊"},{"start":7945.27,"end":7961.765,"text":"你們在本月到最後發生什麼事情啊?你有去研究嗎?各位報告,的確它是從去年到今年,郵務面臨很大的虧損。那主要是在除了郵件以外,是讓它包裹跟快捷也下降。"},{"start":7962.729,"end":7988.959,"text":"大概我從8月21號上任以後已經針對這個部分包括我們在數位化的介面還有包括我們舊客戶跟新客戶的拜訪都積極進行我想就是提高品質把客人找回來這是他們最重要的工作王董事長真的啦要拜託你啦因為你有你是整面全面的觀念你去注入到中華郵政真的啦不要以不變"},{"start":7989.599,"end":8010.213,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8012.223,"end":8028.314,"text":"國際包裹減少了10.5、自轉油量減少了9.3。他那個統計報告各行各業把新竹物流每個都在買車每個都在發財財海運的快遞每一個都在增班只有我們以不變應萬變的中華郵政我跟你講你們現在面對的對手是什麼樣"},{"start":8032.496,"end":8034.657,"text":"包括你剛才談到蝦皮的電對電,我們現在是把我們的愛油箱也要轉成電對電的一個服務。"},{"start":8054.863,"end":8072.243,"text":"我跟委員報告最近他們這幾個月開始這個衰退已經開始減緩了那我是期待是在明年的七月包括我們的數位化的這些民眾的服務做好以後明年七月希望我給他們目標就明年開始止跌回升"},{"start":8073.405,"end":8084.004,"text":"現在有很多比較新的一些作為或是過去在中華郵政比較消極的跟客戶的關係這部分我都在加強中我想說就以這樣目標我們來進行"},{"start":8085.309,"end":8107.592,"text":"拜託你啊,現在兩岸的那個網購啊,電郵的一個部分啊,其實主要的包裹啊,大概80%到90%來自大陸,來自大陸,可是你們在這邊的包裹業務啊,我看順豐快遞一些民間業者啊,我跟你講你們,我覺得你們這一部分啊,是不是從你重新思考,因為我知道你們好像整個業務只交給某一個承辦人,"},{"start":8109.648,"end":8117.793,"text":"帶了30年40年的一個觀念拜託重新去哪裡有生意去哪裡抓這是我的建議好不好好謝謝謝謝趙偉好謝謝我們魯明哲、趙偉那依照趙偉嚴定時間休息10分鐘"},{"start":8144.682,"end":8158.571,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、"},{"start":8160.394,"end":8186.243,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、"},{"start":8187.363,"end":8193.769,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":8203.116,"end":8227.982,"text":"三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、"},{"start":8232.163,"end":8250.18,"text":"三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、"},{"start":8253.041,"end":8277.017,"text":"三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、"},{"start":8277.717,"end":8300.847,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、"},{"start":8301.307,"end":8304.989,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質。"},{"start":8317.994,"end":8325.597,"text":"二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":8343.823,"end":8367.16,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":8367.941,"end":8390.609,"text":"兩、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、十、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、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911.747,"end":8917.352,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":8941.963,"end":8946.404,"text":"所以推展費不屬於觀光行銷、不屬於廣告行銷費嗎?來來我們看看看你們之前這個裡面自己的項目來往上演再往上演"},{"start":8963.669,"end":8966.872,"text":"宣傳行銷計劃、廣告這些都是你們的標案喔!我是從你們的網頁上面標下來、刷下來的資料喔!這些竟然不屬於文宣的費用嗎?這不應該要登載嗎?跟委員報告一下,我是交通部會計處的張處長。"},{"start":8979.502,"end":9008.378,"text":"那因為這個行政院當時在對這個62條之一的規定的時候就有分兩類一個是所謂的政令宣導完全是符合剛剛委員講的那個部分另外一個是有關業務的宣導那業務宣導就不是政令宣導那我自己本身研究這個議題我也教這個他只是說你們可以不用標示為廣告但是不是說你們不可以你們不需要把這些細項要登載在公開資訊網站上跟委員報告"},{"start":9009.178,"end":9034.04,"text":"因為這個一開始的定義它就不是政令宣導它是業務宣導因為我們在做觀光的在做推廣業務它本來就好像在賣東西一樣它需要做一些行銷那些行銷我告訴你司法院有沒有要做業務宣導它也要做業務宣導你只要業務宣導你要委辦給公務機關全部都是政令宣導基金就會有兩類因為基金它叫作業型它本身有作業運作跟"},{"start":9035.842,"end":9061.815,"text":"一般公務機關是不一樣,我們公務機關全部都是要證明宣導所以你現在講說這些錢從哪裡來的這個是基金,觀光發展基金觀光發展基金的經費,所以這些經費都不需要登載嗎我告訴你我認為說不需要依照證明宣導的部分去登載那他剛剛署長已經講了,他依照採購法該公告的他就公告"},{"start":9063.976,"end":9065.717,"text":"所以我們是完全符合法律﹖所以我們是完全符合法律﹖所以我們是完全符合法律﹖"},{"start":9092.489,"end":9093.65,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":9115.762,"end":9138.206,"text":"本國的旅行業者組團可不可以組大陸團的這件事情你們就是違法我在不止一次的在公開場合裡面甚至質詢行政院院長的時候我就有講了你們觀光發展觀光條例可以這樣解釋嗎這些旅行業者帶團去是有損害國家利益嗎損害什麼國家利益你們講清楚請你們現在回答這個法令上面"},{"start":9142.088,"end":9170.323,"text":"這個跟委員報告,我們在跟旅行業、旅館業、遊樂區業在這個按照發展觀光條例的執行來講是,這件事情本來就是不對等的方式在做處理,而且我們確實也被罰查。我告訴你好,署長您要說不對等的方式,我們現在跟大陸有哪一項事情你認為是對等的?也確實對……啊?有哪一件事情你覺得是對等的嗎?我們現在台灣跟大陸的關係,你認為有哪一件事情是對等的?"},{"start":9172.999,"end":9185.967,"text":"因為你們損害國家利益可以這樣講因為他們來的我們去的人都他們來的人少所以這叫不對等所以這叫我們去就叫有損害國家利益是這樣的意思嗎?不是算人數的"},{"start":9187.196,"end":9211.604,"text":"好那不是算人數算什麼請部部長您您告訴我什麼叫有所害國家國家利益我們現在自由行到中國去旅遊我們的國民都相當的自由行自由行是自由行我現在講的是對於觀光旅館業就是對於觀光旅館業這是他們涉及他們業者的生存的問題對不對而且呢就是在參加台灣的團然後出去觀光旅館業應該是希望他們的旅客來不是希望我們的旅客去"},{"start":9212.827,"end":9226.36,"text":"我們台灣的你認為我們台灣的旅行業不需要賺台灣自己同胞的錢嗎?我們的旅宿業者當然是希望他們的旅客可以來台灣住飯店啊。我現在要講的是觀光業就是包含這是旅行業者"},{"start":9228.186,"end":9230.969,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":9248.971,"end":9266.718,"text":"在台灣地區就是兩岸人民關係條例裡面有講啊如果說是你限制人民的這個行動自由到大陸對岸去或是基於有什麼樣的一個狀況這是必須要經過立法院的議決才可以去限制台灣地區人民進入大陸地區的"},{"start":9268.803,"end":9280.408,"text":"你們現在有做這樣的事情嗎?是用什麼要突發狀況嗎?是用什麼影響到做那裡?你沒有經過立法院的議決嗎?中華民國的人民沒有任何一個人目前沒有任何一個人要去自由行是不行的。"},{"start":9283.227,"end":9301.564,"text":"我這個我告訴你們你們實在太限說好那旅行業者組團去這難道不是限制旅行業者的營業自由嗎這不是這不是限制大家可以共同組團一起去大陸的自由嗎你們的作為就是違法我已經不止一次的講"},{"start":9302.865,"end":9306.168,"text":"兩岸人民關係條例講得很清楚,你任何的限制都必須經過立法院的議決。以上本席最後要求,觀光署你必須要將近四年來你們所有的廣告宣傳在國內國外城市只要是廣告宣傳案都要列表送給本席,而且要求你們必須要在網頁上資訊公開。"},{"start":9328.307,"end":9339.761,"text":"另外對於就是觀光客台灣的觀光旅行業者不能夠組團到大陸去觀光的這件事情請這個交通部要給我一個法制延續報告謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝翁委員接下來有請蔡其昌委員發言"},{"start":9369.136,"end":9382.323,"text":"謝謝主席請陳部長陳部長觀光署周署長周署長委員好"},{"start":9383.717,"end":9403.11,"text":"部長我想今天早上我在辦公室已經聽到你多次表達在兩岸觀光上面基本的一個對等跟利益互惠原則的立場我是聽得很清楚但我是覺得大家不斷地要repeat這件事情"},{"start":9403.991,"end":9414.802,"text":"我覺得也有點奇怪,但是本席有一點可能要提醒你一下,中華民國沒有限制任何一個人到大陸地區旅行觀光經商,"},{"start":9417.042,"end":9434.489,"text":"但是你要講一下這個軍人不行啊對那個是我們特殊的規定我說我們講一般一般販子一般人對但反過來你要講到這個反而要提醒大家是台灣有一些人去中國很危險是譬如說王逸川就很危險"},{"start":9436.704,"end":9464.334,"text":"當然本席比他更危險啦本席更危險因為我是認證的這個頑固台獨分子就我接見了我代表中華民國接見裴洛西這個議長來立法院這個訪問本席代表中華民國代表立法院接見我覺得很光榮但這樣的接見對方就叫做台獨頑固分子所以觀光署要提醒的一件事情是"},{"start":9465.464,"end":9487.562,"text":"有一種台獨就是他認為你是台獨你就是台獨這個不限於蔡其昌啊這個在台灣你的各行各業都有可能只要中國高興他願意他對你不爽他就把你列為台獨份子你就可能會被逮捕啊我覺得這個風險的提示是政府應該要做的"},{"start":9488.454,"end":9514.437,"text":"這不是威嚴聳聽阿對沒錯我想大家在媒體上看過太多的例子這些人也不一定是民進黨黨員這些人也不一定做過了什麼事情但是很奇怪的他被滯留很奇怪他被逮捕很多人甚至手機被盤查這個在台灣作為一個民主法治的國家我們都覺得這是侵犯人權這個是完全不能夠接受的不好意思對岸就是這個樣子"},{"start":9516.479,"end":9544.751,"text":"本席過去對觀光署的指證裡面其實我個人不會去阻擋什麼兩岸的什麼觀光往來啦但是本席過去也不斷的在提醒一件事情天上掉下來的禮物啊就只能那個叫機會財啊就天上掉下禮物來你不用什麼成本那你就去撿嘛你就要撿啊如果我們的旅宿業者面對"},{"start":9546.392,"end":9568.03,"text":"對岸天上掉下來的禮物你說我們堅持什麼不撿我覺得也太過啦天上掉下來的禮物就撿嘛但是啊千萬不要花成本去準備天上要掉下來的禮物啦不然你會很慘這個本席過去啊在2020年之前我在交通委員那麼久的時間我講過了N次了過去我講這個時候還有其他黨的委員說我們什麼危言聳聽"},{"start":9575.908,"end":9603.143,"text":"為什麼不是危言聳聽呢?因為全世界民主自由的國家所有的商務所有的觀光旅行的往來都建立在一個法制的基礎上而這個法制通常是讓人民有自由選擇的權利但不好意思我們隔壁對岸的中國他沒有這個問題他只要命令一下就限制了人民去哪一個國家所以那個國家都會因為"},{"start":9604.69,"end":9629.295,"text":"入客來而觀光一下子展現了前所未有的榮景但是你只要讓他不高興他就立刻說你的觀光就立刻崩潰不只台灣嘛你看過很多鄰近的國家都是這個問題所以呢我為什麼說如果我們沒有提示性的讓我們的觀光業者知道而花很多錢就像"},{"start":9631.204,"end":9648.006,"text":"疫情前我們那麼多人為了準備迎接入客的到來投入了那麼多的錢結果最後血本無歸我講這個完全沒有政黨立場我也沒有什麼意識形態我講這個純粹叫做債商言商"},{"start":9649.008,"end":9663.921,"text":"而觀光署對於觀光旅宿業者該有的提醒,該讓事情的本質展現商業的本質,跟所謂統戰的本質,背後有政治力可以主導一切的本質,如果要賺這種錢,賠就要拚錢。"},{"start":9667.421,"end":9668.722,"text":"但是風險在哪裡?政府要做好提示。"},{"start":9695.39,"end":9722.5,"text":"要過去我們從來沒有阻擋自由行你現在隨時刻你此刻就可以去買一張機票你就可以往就可以去中國沒有任何的阻礙但是呢政府要提醒的是去到那個地方現在的風險是什麼有一種風險叫做對方認為你是台獨的風險而你可能會被逮捕你可能會被拘禁你可能會被收身你可能你的手機會被檢查這個反而是政府應該要提醒的是"},{"start":9723.902,"end":9751.037,"text":"但是我也要替觀光業者講一句話我們在面對入客這種不穩定不確定政治掛帥的商業模式底下署長我還是老話一句啦這一年來我已經跟你提醒過很多次了怎麼樣對於其他啦就是你看像最近韓國的遊客變多了你看我們辦了一個12強的比賽在台灣你看"},{"start":9751.536,"end":9776.191,"text":"光大巨蛋周邊的旅宿房價都漲了兩成啊公不應求都漲了兩成我們可以台灣可以吸引到美日韓其他所謂我們認為他是民主國家他政治風險他商業風險很低的觀光客來到台灣他的消費能力可能也很好啊所以"},{"start":9777.27,"end":9786.312,"text":"觀光署怎麼去引導這些這些這些旅客我覺得這個才是台灣觀光要發展最重要的基礎跟命脈其實在這裡"},{"start":9787.469,"end":9812.586,"text":"部長你同意嗎?報告委員這個部分我們確實這一兩年都在努力這個方向所以我們到現在為止以今年來說我們北美的這個旅客北美來台灣的旅客已經超過這個疫情疫情之前的這個旅客也就是說我們在北美的開發旅客的部分其實是有成果的已經超越疫情之前那旅客的多元化也是最近一直在努力的一個方向沒錯"},{"start":9813.627,"end":9837.723,"text":"但是我覺得這個我還是不滿意啦因為數字齁我覺得台灣沒有千萬觀光客說實在話實在是明年我們的目標就是千萬對那你有其他我當然知道嘛因為上次我也問過了嘛齁有這個這些這個雖然我不是能夠接受啦但觀光署講的什麼地震啊什麼這個我說實在話我不知道日本地震比我們一樣多那為什麼它可以成長"},{"start":9838.664,"end":9855.977,"text":"所以找到理由再找到原因找到解決方式然後貫徹的去執行這個是觀光署要做的啦阿其實我們還有很多觀光材可以運用你看到那麼多例子嘛你看一個棒球比賽可以帶動這麼多的人到台灣來觀光二、二月又要比了"},{"start":9856.84,"end":9874.03,"text":"二月又要比了當然這一次國家比較遠一點可能來的難度高但是它也是一個競賽它不但競賽它也可以促進國旅因為它在大巨蛋比中南部的球迷要上來他可能也可以住宿在台北不一定要當天坐高鐵回去"},{"start":9874.87,"end":9890.341,"text":"所以其實觀光局的思維要更多元廣泛不只我們棒球比賽還有很多其他電競、演唱會各式各樣的這種商演都是很好的跟觀光可以做很好的結合"},{"start":9891.261,"end":9918.797,"text":"這個就是多元化不只國家的多元化我們對觀光思維不是只有說我就是規劃好要去旅行他只要離開家他其實就開始進行觀光啊消費啊甚至他住一個晚上就需要旅宿嘛所以觀光的角度我覺得應該是這個樣子最後一個小問題齁這個部長你這個我有看到這個我們郵政公司啊對於這個Team Taiwan冠軍遊者啊"},{"start":9919.659,"end":9920.145,"text":"首波就秒殺,"},{"start":9923.8,"end":9952.242,"text":"那個董事長首波就秒殺啦齁我看了一下這個你們遊者第一波只做五千份總共應該是一萬啦因為還會有第二次一萬喔就算不管啦就算你做到兩萬我還是覺得你太小看這個冠軍的威力我跟你們報告我們現在下個禮拜一二在這個網購就不限量對啦啊那個數字兩天的這個預購限這個數字晚以後我們就跟包括"},{"start":9953.242,"end":9966.45,"text":"這個中華職棒我們在談這個授權就馬上這個看有多少份就給多少份對我的意思就是說郵政公司對市場的敏感度應該要更高一點你看到我們前面對不對職棒雜誌一賣就20萬本"},{"start":9970.319,"end":9995.338,"text":"你們這個遊者涉及那個五千一萬的這個實在是敏感度我現在講是賺錢啦我希望郵政公司收益能夠更好嘛所以我剛有再報告大概大概這樣我們有一個步驟啦像今天開始就是明信片大概有40萬張然後遊者先一萬份然後第二波易過就是我們要看真的是要探那個市場"},{"start":9996.278,"end":10024.32,"text":"不是,我的意思告訴你說,有一些指標你可以不用探了嘛。就你問一下我們到底賣了中華紙棒賣了雜誌賣了幾萬份,你其實大概就可以預估嘛。所以我的意思是說,我不是責怪你們啦,是說你這種錢你再不賺,你想到要出郵票是好事啦。還很多單位連想都沒想過這個事情,你想到要出郵票是好事。但是你對於量的預估齁,這個賺錢的速度太慢了。"},{"start":10025.714,"end":10027.956,"text":"因為紀念郵票是記載我們的這個郵政的發展史裡面的所以那個包括"},{"start":10054.095,"end":10054.275,"text":"謝謝蔡委員。"},{"start":10081.789,"end":10083.231,"text":"接下來有請何新淳委員發言。"},{"start":10103.29,"end":10117.304,"text":"謝謝主席其實剛剛蔡委員在講的我們要做推展台灣那觀光很重要那事實上在交通部的轄下所有的單位應該要橫向的聯繫我今天要特別講的是什麼剛剛蔡委員講的我們最強的會長講的聽台灣的冠軍遊輒"},{"start":10125.211,"end":10147.659,"text":"這個他看起來是中華郵政的業務但是他也是種觀光行銷啊可是我看我們的橫向聯繫從來沒有大家都是各做各的那現在我先講中華郵政自己本身啊預購秒殺雖然剛剛董事長有說啊有我們這是第一波還有第二波那未來還有計劃但是呢我們要談的是什麼"},{"start":10148.599,"end":10170.904,"text":"如何用比較新的觀念,而且是跟得上時代的觀念來進行行銷。這個行銷不是只有在推我們中華郵政,幫中華郵政賺錢。這個行銷也是台灣可以向國際行銷賺國外的錢嘛,對不對。只是說我們,我再講一次,我看起來好像大家都是各做各的。"},{"start":10171.684,"end":10190.394,"text":"少了一個整合行銷的一個觀念部長這給你做參考我覺得觀光對我們交通部來講是一個重中之重的業務也是把台灣的國際形象搞好的一個最重要的關鍵所以這個產業大家也希望說政府能夠"},{"start":10191.314,"end":10193.677,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並屬單位預算"},{"start":10209.947,"end":10234.533,"text":"這個王董事長你自己應該也知道這在你們網站上下來了我們從60年代我們不斷的只要在國際賽事上不管是少棒、輕棒、成棒只要有得冠軍有得獎項我們都會發行紀念郵票這個是已經民國60年到民國108年那今年是因為12強世界冠軍所以我們有"},{"start":10236.033,"end":10255.438,"text":"董事長,我們中華郵政裡面有沒有這樣子碰到這個天大的一個機會來行銷我們中華郵政這個是我們的強項也是我們獨佔市場的,你有沒有想過說這是可以把它包裝行銷可以當作下一次的行銷,為什麼?台灣棒球很棒,台灣很用的,"},{"start":10257.598,"end":10259.241,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算。"},{"start":10269.417,"end":10297.736,"text":"包括最強的會長現在已經說那個獎盃是要巡回台灣去做展示啊可是呢101開始爭取我們其他的單位還沒有人跳出來說要爭取我為什麼會說中華郵政在這一次可以做自己的行銷形象的行銷也可以做什麼賺錢的一個大最重要的機會行銷都在於行銷那要行銷要不要有人要有人啊我不知道中華郵政有沒有相關的這種"},{"start":10300.177,"end":10325.43,"text":"行銷人才全都的,不是選了什麼做了什麼,董事長有嗎?有,我們現在有公共事務處,他是負責這個行銷,不過各位知道這次事實上他們是,我們是三波高潮,明信片、遊者、紀念遊票,然後紀念遊票裡面一、二、三接經典賽的這個預算,當然如果經典賽到複賽我們的冠軍,當然那時候一定要再花一次。"},{"start":10326.49,"end":10340.219,"text":"所以我的意思是說那要多元的行銷對不對各式各樣只要能夠爭取曝光只要有行銷的機會都要那甚至觀光署在他的對外的網頁甚至在配合觀光的行銷運動也是一種行銷運動產業行銷台灣的運動產業那"},{"start":10348.144,"end":10362.373,"text":"剛剛最強會長講了啊,你看大家日本韓國的球迷也會來這裡看棒球啊,那只要台灣有舉辦國際賽事,那也會來啊,是不是?比如台中也有啊,對不對?所以我的意思是說,我們交通部向下,"},{"start":10363.194,"end":10376.417,"text":"推觀光推行銷我覺得是可以這個在民間企業叫做異業結合啦結盟啦大家可以互相合作拉抬嘛那甚至增加曝光的機會嘛對不對這個才是整套的一個我希望我們能夠有這樣子的人才啦"},{"start":10383.11,"end":10412.219,"text":"我們來加強,我們現在大概很多行銷是在委託其他這種行銷公司來處理,那根本包括的確像12強這個也是我們中華郵政最近一波讓人家重視到我們的網站會掛掉。是啊,曾幾何時中華郵政的網站會被衝到掛掉,那表示多熱啊對不對。所以我們覺得爭取這一種尤其國家的這種非常榮耀的時刻,"},{"start":10412.967,"end":10441.043,"text":"然後當然就是配合部長這邊對於觀光的發展我們這個持續而且我覺得不僅僅他只是不僅僅是觀光行銷不僅僅只是幫中華郵政在累積盈餘賺錢重要他是一個歷史記憶這個東西留下來是一個紀念他買的人或者是參與的人對他來講這是他人生當中一個很光榮很重要的記憶所以郵票所以你會發行郵票嗎那接下來"},{"start":10441.883,"end":10468.339,"text":"要說專業、要說觀光大家今天也有人提到郵政博物館我剛剛為什麼說你要爭取這一個12強獎盃冠軍來做展因為你們有郵政博物館你們有場館可是你們的場館做得很不專業、很不到位而且備受大家認為說你們第一個那個管理有問題"},{"start":10469.502,"end":10496.181,"text":"第二、策展的專業有問題。第三、連時間都會開放時間都是很官僚式的沒有任何其他的配套甚至如果我們的中華郵政要止血不要繼續走老路子老套的話就必須要想盡辦法去打入年輕人年輕化的一個"},{"start":10497.227,"end":10499.648,"text":"二、審查一、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查十、"},{"start":10516.772,"end":10517.172,"text":"董事長你知道嗎?好"},{"start":10544.725,"end":10572.853,"text":"我回答你這個問題跟部長討論以後我們今天開始所有的本館本來就是只有休禮拜一現在三個分館從今天開始都是休禮拜一其他都開放第一個第二個地方郵局的管理是的確是在這一次我去三個這個郵輪館去看就是說它因為它原來是直接由我們由郵國館的總館來管所以它是以郵票為主"},{"start":10573.793,"end":10595.135,"text":"但是我覺得這個有點可惜,台中剛剛開幕,委員可以看一下,事實上它非常精彩,我們是希望它變成一個郵政的生活館來看,這意思是說除了郵票以外,它有很多的文創的產品,還有一些歷史,它也是可以結合讓地方能夠去的一個地方。"},{"start":10598.856,"end":10618.08,"text":"但是經營要有專業、經營要有人力、經營要有人啊。這個我們總公司這邊、董事長這邊有沒有願意投資好好的來把這個郵政博物館跟分館要把它整理好,然後能夠顯示它的專業,然後顯示出我們的空間的改造。"},{"start":10619.12,"end":10625.547,"text":"這個都需要我們總公司的支持跟部長的支持啊是不是這個部分我們當然支持的要有專業的策展是嘛你沒有專業的人的時候為什麼我要幫你們想裁員啊要開員嘛對不對那開員剛剛"},{"start":10636.442,"end":10638.345,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質。"},{"start":10653.803,"end":10675.776,"text":"包裝以後比我們原來票值高很多。對,你們呢按照你們票值在賣可能一套幾百塊幾十塊,他呢一套是賣一千二、一千五甚至兩千以上,啊這個為什麼故宮人家會你們不會呢?你這是你所省省出來郵票,這麼值得紀念的一個郵票、套票,"},{"start":10676.936,"end":10702.715,"text":"那怎麼不懂得去經營跟行銷呢?第二個我建議可以用文化幣如果你們願意包裝行銷故宮在賣你們中華郵政的郵票套票的時候他可以使用文化幣那會吸引更多的年輕人來來可能想要來買郵票嘛這也是行銷創新你們的思考啊對不對"},{"start":10704.588,"end":10706.209,"text":"尤其我們文化幣現在要加碼喔13到15歲可以有600喔那現在15歲到18歲是有1200喔"},{"start":10713.649,"end":10735.04,"text":"我跟各位報告就是說事實上在中華郵政有很多的創意商品就是類似他雖然是用郵票但是做成杯子做成紀念品是剛才談到像故宮事實上故宮也是跟我們合作是啊是在跟我們合作可是你賣的是那個郵票的那個幣值啊然後他賣的是整套的這個價值啊藝術價值啊是"},{"start":10736.721,"end":10754.555,"text":"阿文化幣用在集友跟郵政博物館我想這部分我們跟文化部這個要爭取啦因為既然我們郵政博物館要如果有心要好好的來投資要經營要讓它變得是更親近我們一般的人民讓一般的年輕家庭跟親子都可以進入我們的郵政博物館去認識我們的郵票歷史文化還有它很有價值的一些"},{"start":10761,"end":10785.753,"text":"紀念性的郵票那甚至延伸出很多的文化創意產品我覺得這是我們中華郵政的開源方法之一嘛那文化幣是便便的一個可以讓年輕人他拿著文化幣也許未來盡快的時間裡面談好了之後你接下來的紀念郵票跟接下來的這個棒球相關的年輕人就可以用文化幣來買啊"},{"start":10786.894,"end":10790.195,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":10817.468,"end":10821.371,"text":"謝謝委員。好,謝謝何委員。接下來有請許富奎委員發言。謝謝主席。我們有請陳部長跟我們周署長。陳部長、周署長。委員好。"},{"start":10845.104,"end":10860.576,"text":"部長、署長早安。我想本席還是要持續關心我們這個所謂一個觀光的一個效益的一個問題。那當然依我們觀光署我們在12月6號有公布,截至目前大概今年度的"},{"start":10861.997,"end":10862.017,"text":"是。"},{"start":10881.697,"end":10902.663,"text":"議長,我想不管在委員會也好,我想甚至很多的委員,大家都持續關心我們觀光署在這個過去我們看到當然周處長很努力,但是外界也批評他用這個大撒幣來招攬國際這個旅客的一個做法,感覺那個KPI沒出來,那我想真的這樣的一個"},{"start":10904.083,"end":10921.169,"text":"今年也快結束了嘛,真的這樣子的一個狀況,那明年部長認為我們明年的國際旅客有沒有什麼定義的目標?要達到多少分?您的那個螢幕上面顯示說沒有破千萬是國恥啊,那所以我們明年的目標就是希望能夠破千萬。"},{"start":10921.949,"end":10939.109,"text":"我們就是以一千萬作為目標今年沒有達到我們明年就來達到那委員剛剛在指教的就是說這個用補貼的方式其實在各國的旅遊每一國的政府其實大部分現在所有的國家大部分是用補貼的方式所以不是只有台灣在做"},{"start":10939.669,"end":10965.868,"text":"其他我們鄰近的國家包含韓國他們也是這樣在做有很多國家都是這樣在做大家都在拼觀光那補貼是全世界很多國家都在做的一種方式那旅遊的逆差的部分其實我覺得這個他們上面的算法有一點點小小的不公平就是說我們出國的旅客我們出國的旅客是包含了機票錢但是來台灣玩的旅客沒有包含機票錢"},{"start":10966.688,"end":10986.695,"text":"一差就差了好幾萬所以那個利差算起來看起來會很大但是那個是計算的基礎我覺得有點小小的不公平跟委員報告部長那因為我們目前掌握到這個我們有民間的學者他們估算這個圖表上有顯示嗎截至目前大概到8月份我們的利差的人數高達640多萬"},{"start":10988.536,"end":11007.615,"text":"那所謂的一個產值的逆差高達7380億非常龐大一個數字那我們也知道這個觀光署這邊最近也在一直在持續在佈局所謂的一個國外的一個行銷的一些據點甚至也花了很多錢跟網紅搭配"},{"start":11008.416,"end":11035.553,"text":"但是我要提醒部長,部長,這國際旅客除了人數減少之外,最大衝擊是我們國內的觀光產業。你人不去買,我們國內這產業大家苦不堪言啊。但是我想相對性我們還是要要求觀光署,其實我們目前看到尤其像很多我們屏東來講,我們有大鵬灣管理處也有茂林管理處,但是很遺憾我們並沒有創造新的觀光的一個"},{"start":11036.454,"end":11038.675,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通"},{"start":11057.941,"end":11083.376,"text":"是那個我們也上一次委員特別追尋我們也明年把它當作一個很重要的半島旅遊那把恆春半島的部分做一些串接那這個部分我們已經跟屏東縣政府也有聯繫了那我們接著就是要跟那個國家公務員署那墾丁國家公務員一起把這個大鵬灣、小琉球、東港連結到海生館"},{"start":11084.377,"end":11086.878,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算"},{"start":11101.984,"end":11127.68,"text":"對,這部分就是要拜託署長,我想我們整個搭配跨部會的一個合作,怎麼樣把我們整個國內的旅遊品質的軟硬體建設再加強,而且我們的部長也很喜歡去墾丁深入旅遊,我想這個才是我們未來要發展生態跟觀光跟深入旅遊,這才會永續經營,我想這也是針對很多外國的一個遊客很有誘因的一個點,我想我們應該努力這個方向。"},{"start":11128.781,"end":11155.012,"text":"另外屏東我想目前我們比較關心因為有一個關心的地方就是大鵬灣的開發那觀光署這邊目前大概掌握到的資料大概就是我們11月份的招商大會我們目前預計投資金額可以突破300億我想這個部分也是我們整個屏東縣很多我們鄉親很期待的一個重要的一個觀光建設但是我還是要提醒我們部長跟署長有一個問題"},{"start":11156.292,"end":11174.898,"text":"因為過去我們在做一個這個開發的一個協調上面我們當地的居民有被提出要求要回饋捐地或繳交待機來做一個公共設施的一個建設但是我們發現這有很大的一個問題點就是因為現在百姓捐出來的地它分散在不一樣的地方"},{"start":11175.598,"end":11202.443,"text":"我們公務部門包含我們盤管署也好縣政也好怎麼樣把這些捐出來的土地做有效的整合作為公共設施的一個使用甚至到開闢道路這部分到目前為止一直沒有一個相關的進度那個跟委員報告一下應該是由4、由5、由6這個部分啦那我們這次招商是由1、由2、由3對那那個一個是我們希望能夠擴大那有關於由5的部分"},{"start":11203.283,"end":11221.007,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部"},{"start":11228.141,"end":11253.894,"text":"對,那邊還需要整地的協商。好,那我想許處長也有到,請許處長說明一下。好,來。報告委員,這個案子現在11月19號在內政部還有做討論。那主席有交代說,可能針對這個私有土地的開發回饋,交代小組在研議。那我們會跟內政部再討論,如果把它"},{"start":11254.614,"end":11275.692,"text":"把這個誘因跟後續的處理機制,把它做一個...沒有啦,處理...你捐出來的土地跟我們陳部長捐出來的土地都不一樣在一個區塊,要怎麼整合起來做公共設施啦,這是一個很大的問題啦。是。這個一定要再跟內政部好好討論一下怎麼樣,不然你今天關出來的土地金額就沒多少了,輸了嘛,你要把它圍起來去。是是。"},{"start":11276.833,"end":11286.523,"text":"這個我們都有跟內政部在討論的。而且你們現在要求繳交的代金也不足以去支付這些公共設施的一個預算啊。這比來什麼人要買單?是。"},{"start":11289.929,"end":11315.767,"text":"好這部分現在提起我們就會注意啦會注意到時候跟內政部那邊在開會的時候就要特別提出來對啊不能讓大鵬開發變成兩個世界啊你由一由二由三做一個國際級的就由四由五由六一體停滯不前這是不對的啊我們應該是要整體大鵬一個開發的進度嗎那另外我想針對這個中華郵政的部分我董事長這個我記得我大概"},{"start":11317.628,"end":11337.142,"text":"上半年的時候我有針對這樣的一個我們虧損的一個情形也提出質詢那像我們現在比較擔心就是說因為我們去年虧損16.5億之後那我們陸續裁員了274名的一個外勤人員跟內勤的窗口人員但目前我們聽到狀況是欲缺不補"},{"start":11337.862,"end":11360.55,"text":"那現在目前我們知道今年退休跟離職的人大概有高達1150個人但是你們只有招考70個人這樣的狀況是不是造成我們基層同仁的一個很大的一個工作的負擔甚至有些已進行科技往南部的鄉親他考到中北部他期待時間到了應該要可以調回南部結果調不回來這就造成更多家庭的問題這不應該怎麼去處理"},{"start":11364.653,"end":11388.446,"text":"現在我來用我的政策是在尾外的部分先處理啦比如說因為的確他現在油量在下降嘛應該說尾外的部分是不是可以減少然後這個由我們現在的比如說油務室來擔任的這個都在進行那現在的確在申請到這個異動的部分比如說南部是特別多"},{"start":11389.056,"end":11413.314,"text":"我看高雄、那個屏東都非常的多,所以它有點消耗不良,那我現在也給他們一個這個希望說,如果這個補還沒補齊以前,不要各舉再去招考新人,讓要調回來的沒有這個機會,那目前大概朝這個方向來進行,我想說整個在這個人力的調度還是按照我們的需求,還有現況的這個調動性來處理的。"},{"start":11415.852,"end":11436.667,"text":"對,因為過去本期也有接到我們有我們基層通文在投訴這個我們要補的時候不要只有補高階人員高階的這個主管應該要針對基層的人力要多補充因為第一所做工會最辛苦的那我想不要造成勞役不均的一個工作環境我們中華郵政才會是一個幸福企業"},{"start":11437.773,"end":11452.868,"text":"他現在就是的確在人力的這個調配是按照我們這個整個業務的一個狀況那當然就是說在中間是不是有沒有處理比較不當的部分我想這部分我請各局來做一些這個檢討"},{"start":11453.869,"end":11476.395,"text":"對啦,董事長也應該針對我們這個工業那個工作量的狀況跟人力的配置的部分應該做一個全面性的盤點,而不是這個要因地制宜啦,這樣我覺得讓同仁會覺得說這個各種在對的地方做得比較辛苦,在南部的做得比較緊張,沒有這一回事應該要全面排領我們工作的負擔量。好,我們就朝這方向持續來檢討。好,謝謝。謝謝委員。好,謝謝許委員。"},{"start":11483.413,"end":11485.116,"text":"接下來有請楊瓊英委員發言。謝主席,楊瓊英發言,邀請部長。陳部長"},{"start":11503.009,"end":11529.866,"text":"委員好部長我們來討論這個通用計程車的議題因為2025年我們要邁入台灣邁入超高齡那這個數字讓我們也很緊張65歲以上長者比例會超過20%這個緊張是長輩是我們家的寶貝但是我們要怎麼樣讓他們可以生活的非常的安逸這是政府的責任因此我們看到身障人口"},{"start":11530.586,"end":11533.088,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算．"},{"start":11546.391,"end":11564.596,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部"},{"start":11566.196,"end":11582.463,"text":"我記得第一台台中的這個通用計程車我們大家記者會都大家很高興大家都去宣傳但是我們看到目前為止部長目前為止我們總共有多少我們的通用計程車僅佔總量的1%"},{"start":11585.393,"end":11592.603,"text":"政府有一個他的目標,他的KPI,2020年要多少呢?2020年要20%。通貨計程車要佔總量的20%。但是現在我們"},{"start":11602.712,"end":11616.622,"text":"統計這1.3%原因出在哪裡請問報告委員這個通用計程車確實我們目前的數量不足原因出在哪裡原因出在兩個部分一個部分是說想叫車的人叫不到"},{"start":11617.483,"end":11644.135,"text":"那有車的人他也找不到客人那找不到客人的時候他們願意投入的這個意願就會相對的低。議員低?是為什麼呢?我覺得是他們中間的串接啦。就是說個人跟車隊中間的串接的程度還不夠所以我們現在正在努力要做一個APP我們要做一個APP做一個平台讓他們雙方的串接更有效率這是一方面。部長你現在的說法本行沒有辦法認同。"},{"start":11644.875,"end":11665.965,"text":"我們應該要先看你的老年人口我們的身障的朋友已經要佔65歲以上是43%在這樣的情況我們的需求是夠的但是你的供給是不夠的你的供給只有1.3%跟你自己政府定的KPI20%落差將近20倍你應該要由這一點去檢討"},{"start":11669.907,"end":11678.734,"text":"你要怎麼樣讓設備可以足?這方面有在檢討。怎麼檢討?我們對於購車的補貼也好,或者是說……請問購車補貼這樣一台設備你補貼多少?我目前數字啦,我會後再詳細再跟委員報告。我告訴你,從12年前政府沒有在追蹤。"},{"start":11691.22,"end":11691.54,"text":"一趟給50塊,到現在也是。"},{"start":11707.694,"end":11734.005,"text":"你12年來你的落差已經那麼大你為什麼不去檢討?這個部分有在檢討怎麼檢討?我前幾天就已經找公關的單位有來檢討怎麼檢討?不是一張50塊而已我們未來的方式因為他有時候要去載客人他會空車空車的里程我們也會寄費給他也就是說補貼會超過那個50塊啦空車的部分如果你再加上的話會更多一點所以對於業者來講他願意參加的意願會再增加"},{"start":11734.645,"end":11743.677,"text":"你現在告訴本席的說你們朝一到五時在空車的部分我還補貼給你,這個方向,那車子的部分呢?"},{"start":11744.461,"end":11769.889,"text":"車子的部分其實跟委員報告目前來申請補貼的其實數量沒有很大,如果真的有需要再提高。議員不高嗎?對,議員不高。那議員不高,你是政府啊。他的議員不高,你要怎麼樣讓他議員高?因為你的終極目標是要協助需要協助的長者跟身障的朋友,對不對?你的目標是這個,你既然你的設備都不足,"},{"start":11770.729,"end":11797.9,"text":"你就一趴當然你的成效會不髒啊不是,報告委員我剛有講一個問題齁我們現在要趕快快速解決的是有車的人找不到客人有需求的人找不到車那中間的串接的平台顯然是有問題的那我們先把中間的串接中間的串接平台先把它做好做好一個完整的APP讓客人隨時預約的到車那車子也不會變成空車當他生意很好的時候他就意願就會提高"},{"start":11798.24,"end":11816.342,"text":"但是我要建議你你要馬兒跑必須要給馬兒吃草為什麼計程車通用計程車他們為了他們的生存他會去轉型因為我要生存嘛計程車世界要轉型我們需要協助的需要做通用的他找不到車"},{"start":11817.523,"end":11832.244,"text":"所以會達成三輸的這個情況。請教既然我們討論到這個議題本身非常的關心我們身上的朋友所以請教你們現在所要檢討多久時間會有方案出來給社會大眾"},{"start":11832.867,"end":11851.576,"text":"我們應該在這兩三個月就可以有一個方案出來了在這個兩三個月對這兩三個月就是農曆年的過年過後過後對我們會有一個檢討的方案大概會是在這個二月底二月底告訴社會大眾就是在二月底告訴社會大眾到底要怎麼辦"},{"start":11852.757,"end":11867.117,"text":"我希望因為我們點出這個問題就陳理文你說了不管是對接有問題不管你在補貼方面人家沒有誘因攻擊跟需求他是沒有辦法去搭搭的而且最糟糕的是什麼"},{"start":11868.218,"end":11896.181,"text":"是需求需要供給不夠這個是在我們整個社會面裡頭的邏輯最糟糕的所以我希望能夠在這個農曆年過後可以得到看到你的方案到底是什麼我也要求你先把你們初步的方向先給本席好不好我們繼續來討論我們希望好好的來這個幫助需要幫助的人接下來最後一個議題我要請問我們現在觀光局"},{"start":11897.401,"end":11923.387,"text":"那10月16號您說了今年來台的人客數大概是750萬,達到你去年約定的千萬目標是沒有辦法達標,但是我們今年也就是明年,我們現在審明天預算,您就希望以千人為目標來努力,這很好,我們朝我們的目標,但是我們根據觀光署的一個統計,到8月底本席統計,"},{"start":11924.127,"end":11927.029,"text":"出入境的逆差達到了641萬人次,它的產值逆差會達到7300億,會創下了歷史的新高。"},{"start":11954.307,"end":11962.258,"text":"正新國旅除了靠你來大力的宣導之外你還有什麼樣的方式可以讓這個逆差不要這麼大請做說明"},{"start":11964.096,"end":11978.644,"text":"我跟委員報告一下我們在算這個觀光產值的時候我們要分兩個部分一個是英鎊就是入境的你告訴我你跟我爭執數字沒有意義本期是要聽你要怎麼樣能夠將這個逆差我們沒辦法管制國人出國"},{"start":11988.038,"end":11997.905,"text":"所以這個逆差這樣算法其實不是很公平的算法但是因為已經算了哇你今天是行政部門你講這個我嚴肅的跟你抗議你當然我們民主國家你怎麼可能去管人家要出國而是你要去理解你今天觀光署你要怎麼樣讓外面的人可以進來而且讓我的國人也可以國旅所以我剛剛特別跟你講了國旅嘛以及你要怎麼樣讓這個逆差減少"},{"start":12017.057,"end":12023.361,"text":"我把答案給你了,你還在講這個內容,這個離譜嗎?對啊!部長講的就對啊!我希望要聽到這個啊!你不是告訴我我沒有辦法去控制我們的國人要出國!我們是民主國家欸!"},{"start":12035.387,"end":12062.875,"text":"報告委員我們會盡量國外的宣傳做好然後台灣的亮點做好這兩點是最重要就像你們菲律賓前天啊你發表了一個菲律賓的代言人這個方案不錯所以你應該要怎麼樣去精進各種方案呢你在這邊跟我辯證國人聽不下去的對不對我們希望聽到行政部門你是有方案的所以怎麼樣能夠讓產值的逆差不那麼大"},{"start":12063.835,"end":12068.239,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":12083.55,"end":12098.003,"text":"有,我們每年的年度計畫裡面還有部長會在...你告訴針對本席的提問嘛,你多久,你的經濟方案可以跟本席...我們一個月內就提供...一個月內提供嘛,好不好,謝謝好,謝謝委員好,謝謝楊委員接下來有請王逸川委員發言"},{"start":12115.7,"end":12119.844,"text":"好,我們請陳部長跟周署長。周署長。好。部長好、署長好。委員好。部長。是。這個上海副市長啊,一個小小的上海副市長所宣布上海人可以來台灣的,你相信嗎?"},{"start":12138.125,"end":12159.42,"text":"我們還沒有看到他們文旅部有這樣子的政策宣布,所以這個部分我還不確定,因為中國的體制說實在的,誰說了算到目前為止還不確定。因為中國人出國要國家同意,我們台灣人出國就要去做政管,不然就什麼軍公教育一大堆規定的不可以去,"},{"start":12160.916,"end":12162.478,"text":"其他護照客的去哪裡去哪裡啦,那中國獨裁國家,他們一個上海副市長而已,這樣說說台灣這樣瘋瘋的。"},{"start":12170.731,"end":12189.28,"text":"我們在花蓮縣的副縣長也可以說,開放花蓮縣副縣長可以去中國,本來就可以去中國,還是在裝瘋的。所以這個,第一個請我們這個觀光署、交通部這一點有密切注意。歡迎,他們要來都來,可是他們的國家有很多,他們不能親自出國的。"},{"start":12193.072,"end":12193.532,"text":"現在台灣人去韓國都要買什麼?"},{"start":12223.441,"end":12251.181,"text":"有很多parts可以買啦,優惠券。不是啦,我是說去買什麼東西啦。年齡層不同,那這個4歲以下的買很多泡麵,還有買一些,我們說後面那個啦,就是。我知道啦,你要說泡菜啦,海苔啦,那是我們這個年紀的。我們家人這陣子去香港要買什麼回來?"},{"start":12254.198,"end":12264.283,"text":"在場我比較好大家知道嗎?買棉被!我問你怎麼要這麼多票要賺啊?他說人家現在去韓國都要買棉被。部長你有聽過嗎?其實沒聽過。沒聽過對不對?你現在網路給他輸入。去首爾買棉被。因為你說去兩個市場買。去首爾要買什麼?現在調查都棉被。好我為什麼先講這一題?那請問"},{"start":12283.536,"end":12305.088,"text":"日本人到台灣他要買什麼?台灣應該很多吧當然大家所熟悉的他們對鳳梨酥還是情有獨鍾啦然後但是就是分類啦我們是鼓勵他們多買一些精品那叫你鼓勵沒關係啦我們去韓國去首爾說首爾必買"},{"start":12310.51,"end":12326.142,"text":"所以你是日本,日本人輸入的時候說到台灣必買,那挑一套錢的就來了。我們那既必要什麼,什麼富豪、豆漿對吧?為什麼要整群的啊?那日本人、韓國人為什麼來台灣都去喝豆漿?很奇怪的,你想我都喝四海豆漿。"},{"start":12334.345,"end":12350.193,"text":"因為他們的網站、他們的旅遊書就跟他說來台灣、來台北一定要去那裡導致。所以我就問,你們接下來,我舉韓國做例子,接下來你們找韓國的人代言台灣觀光,"},{"start":12352.028,"end":12376.393,"text":"去年找誰?我們找龜賢今年?對,今年找龜賢明年?我們是一個年度一個年度來明年找誰?目前還是在評估找的人要不要署長同意?我們當然是一起開會討論你們在討論,你們討論沒有用啦觀光署的同仁不要討論"},{"start":12378.257,"end":12407.481,"text":"我們有專業的公司啦專業的公司你還問韓國人啦專業的公司也是國際的還有韓國人你再提醒你這是KOL的部分啦你們要找你們要問韓國人要找有流量的韓國人來幫我們推不是你們不要從台灣去觀察韓國要找誰你要問韓國人說哪一個人譬如說這個PINK LADYPLAY PINK這幾個人很多"},{"start":12408.702,"end":12414.443,"text":"現在辦演唱會很多,那群人來台灣整群在高雄怎麼笑的?是是。"},{"start":12415.669,"end":12439.388,"text":"一大堆,那很貴的我知道啦,可是你們找到的網紅是韓國人喜歡的,他們講的都性質啦,他們講的都性質。早有流量的,然後有吸引力,能夠吸引出的一些網紅。所以這要找國際的網紅,要找他們那個國家的人認同的。要用他們的角度,不要用我們的角度。好,我再問第二個問題,那個署長你知不知道我有領隊導遊執照?"},{"start":12442.512,"end":12463.917,"text":"有沒有聽過?我大概不曉得。你可以查得到我有沒有在執業嗎?旅行社通報的時候才會查的,刻意去查。所以你查不到我這個有領隊導遊的人,我曾經執業過對不對?你也查不到我從來沒有執業過對不對?對,因為它是一個證照制,就像我們有電腦的…我覺得這個你們機制要改變。"},{"start":12468.943,"end":12487.368,"text":"為什麼要改變?上次在疫情期間不是要補助領隊導遊嗎?當時我跟交通部長講說,我沒有在職業,我給你申請,你如果補助的話你就麻煩了。應該不會,因為透過旅行社嘛。不是,就是說我有證喔,我都有證喔。是是。然後呢,我每到期間我就換證喔。"},{"start":12491.138,"end":12511.839,"text":"那各地的協會都會去換換都可以換嘛對不對齁好我的意思是說我們現在我們的觀光署有沒有掌握擁有領隊導遊執照的人啊擁有領隊導遊執照的人現在在線上啊譬如說今年有在執業的是哪些人啊哪些人都沒有在執業你想我就沒在執業啊可是我還是有證啊"},{"start":12512.944,"end":12531.711,"text":"阿雖然我沒有去換證,我只要再去上幾個小時,對不對,之後我就又有證了。對。阿所以我的意思是說,因為三年換證之外,如果要執業的話要訓練。對,阿我們國家總是要知道說武嶺對島到底誰有在執業嘛,到底有多少人在執業,不然你們現在手上掌握的數字阿,"},{"start":12532.651,"end":12548.406,"text":"都是虛的啦,都是虛的啦。有統計了,我們也還是有統計。對,本人的統計就是他不在職業裡面,就是他有資格而已啦。有效的,叫有效的導遊。好,我再問剛剛第二個問題就是說那個觀光發展研訓院啦,我看媒體有在報導,目前籌備的狀況怎麼樣?接下來領隊導遊就這個研訓院來負責嗎?"},{"start":12554.321,"end":12582.756,"text":"我們昨天才開會來討論我們希望115年可以正式讓它上線營運你們現在領隊導遊考試院不幫忙考了嗎?是由我們觀光署委託專業的來考試我是建議以後就由國家的研訓院負責來辦當然到各個北中南東要訓練再委託其他的協會跟學校"},{"start":12583.676,"end":12584.516,"text":"接下來有請洪孟楷委員發言。"},{"start":12622.349,"end":12647.537,"text":"好主席謝謝麻煩請陳世凱部長陳部長好部長好委員好部長我想今天早上很多委員都有關心說針對兩岸的旅遊的一個部分是面對現在上海主動有出席也釋放善意那台灣的進入團令進團令的部分你今天上午有回答是說會滾動檢討是不是是沒錯好"},{"start":12649.198,"end":12675.906,"text":"然後我想請教一下到目前為止兩個部分第一從我們宣布說進團令6月30號開始到現在我們有沒有這一些旅行社還是有做這個相關的組團前往中國大陸6月30之前組團6月30以後啦到現在網路上我們有沒有看到很多的旅行社其實有做這樣的一個安排還是有啦但是不多還是有嗎對所以那我們這邊有沒有找有相關的一個規範或說相關的一個處置了嗎"},{"start":12678.752,"end":12705.524,"text":"我們的禁團令,有嗎?對,委員提的是禁團令有,但是因為當初有一個3月到5月的開放。沒有啊,我現在講的是說3月到5月之後啦,現在有沒有在賣?我們去查一下。不能公開,不能公開,不能公開,對啊。不能公開,大家都知道,就只有我們觀光署不知道。其實有嘛,要不要現在搜尋一下。"},{"start":12707.199,"end":12712.05,"text":"本席致死之痛的立場都是認為說觀光是民眾市場"},{"start":12713.288,"end":12742.507,"text":"大家喜歡去那個地方那個地方就是會活絡那你不要用政治意識形態干預對岸不應該台灣也不要我們都應該要開放的態度來去讓所有人喜歡的就來商機無限嘛之前是因為疫情所以飯店旅遊住宿觀光餐飲運輸海嘯第一排很可憐但現在疫情過後就好像只有台灣我們還活在這個疫情交廊裡面我們還沒有回復"},{"start":12743.648,"end":12764.374,"text":"所以之前講說今年要一千兩百萬沒有變一千萬沒有變七百五十萬沒有到最後七百萬結果本期看到連來台七百萬突破的觀光人士都可以做新聞啊說實在話你當初我們期待你做新聞是做一千兩百萬不是七百萬所以"},{"start":12766.892,"end":12786.043,"text":"我想請教一下部長假設啦對岸現在真的能夠讓上海的民眾來到台灣那我們的這個禁團令真的可以讓國人也到中國大陸的時候是消費人身安全保障保險等等的都可以比較有一個名正言順契約"},{"start":12788.45,"end":12802.465,"text":"什麼時候能夠檢討?報告委員,這滾動檢討其實就是代表隨時在檢討。農曆年前呢?因為現在接下來其實很快,跨年、農曆年,這都是算是大節日。報告委員,我們隨時都在檢討,這第一點。"},{"start":12803.806,"end":12821.464,"text":"第二點剛剛在講的安全的問題其實我們還要再跟業者做更多的商討我所知道目前我們跟業者其實也有在討論對於我們的團客如果到了中國大陸去旅遊的時候他的人生的安全該怎麼保障那這個部分其實業者也有一些想法那我們目前還在統整大家的看法"},{"start":12822.125,"end":12848.839,"text":"所以現在都是滾通檢討就是不設限但是對岸如果說已經有遞這個橄欖枝了我希望真的我們的觀光部門啊能夠好好的互相來共同的來讓兩岸的議題真的能夠在農曆年春融花開來那部長拉回來啊國內的旅遊的一個部分有看到說環境部要推動限速令喔明年馬上就要上路那只剩兩個禮拜就2025年了"},{"start":12850.74,"end":12866.88,"text":"那現在有講到是說各飯店內不能有一次性的備品那甚至連瓶裝水都鼓勵不要用塑膠瓶的瓶裝水要用玻璃瓶或說飲水機我請教我們台灣幾乎是沒有玻璃瓶的飲水"},{"start":12868.086,"end":12886.056,"text":"對不對?那這樣子現在有沒有針對我們的所有的這一些飯店業者?難怪人家在講是說如果說連國內住宿連水都沒有連一次性的備品都沒有網路上討論是說這樣出國理由更多了我們希望這樣子嗎?是!但我說以亞洲國家來講相對來講這樣子的限制是比較少的"},{"start":12890.888,"end":12916.485,"text":"之前有看到是歐洲國家比較多但我現在在講的是說我們飯店業者做好準備沒有?飯店業者做好準備了嗎?觀光旅宿業的部分我們有去宣導那觀光旅館的部分其實他們做的準備是相對比較足夠的那一般的旅館其實我們也拜託地方政府要幫忙去宣導要求他們一定要做到因為這個政策的制定當它制定下去大概就會強制性這樣下去推廣"},{"start":12918.026,"end":12946.594,"text":"那飯店必須要適應這樣一件事。沒有錯。部長你現在沒有聽懂我的話。現在只剩兩個禮拜了。明年1月1號是不是就開始就要實施了。我們會主動抽查。我們就會去檢查。那我們要做的事情並不是要處罰業者吧。我講我們沒有是要處罰業者。我們要的是說希望業者能夠配合政府一起來做這個限數。那所以我現在講的是說到底這兩個禮拜所有業者反應準備好了沒有。"},{"start":12948.537,"end":12960.977,"text":"對,但是有兩個層次,一個是牙刷,我用比較具體的舉例啦,譬如說備品,一次性的備品,對,它不再提供了,那它可以放在櫃台,"},{"start":12962.045,"end":12968.872,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":12984.529,"end":13011.872,"text":"只是說我們希望能夠用鼓勵的跟國際的潮流是一樣的用玻璃瓶的方式能夠重複使用這個我們還會有補貼的計畫希望說飯店業者可以來配合我們國內有多少的玻璃瓶的業者或是說國內我們的消費習慣使用方式我們到最後是觀光署要去幫忙業者找玻璃瓶的飲用水是不是"},{"start":13012.993,"end":13025.937,"text":"這是一個世界的潮流所以大家慢慢的會推廣出來所以用玻璃瓶的方式是可以重複使用啦我們是叫做減速的目標這個沒有開罰啦我知道這我了解兩個部分嘛兩個層次嘛現在是你們講不清楚欸"},{"start":13032.739,"end":13053.765,"text":"主長、部長是你們講不清楚兩個部分你們講說180CC以下的備品是不能用的180以上所以說瓶裝水是沒有限制只是你們鼓勵說要用玻璃瓶或是增加飲用水那本席現在在請教的就是說兩個部分嘛你要讓業者好去購買玻璃瓶啊"},{"start":13054.845,"end":13061.869,"text":"好去購買玻璃瓶的廠商或說至少你的玻璃瓶的提供是方便的有辦法嗎?有溝通嗎?有跟經濟部來聯繫嗎?有沒有?"},{"start":13065.54,"end":13091.993,"text":"我們國人的消費習慣有用過玻璃瓶的飲用水嗎?我只問這一句。便利商店買得到嗎?飯店找得到嗎?你不能自訂一個政策出來之後然後全都是你們在辦公室裡面想咖哩輸咖哩丟然後跟我們國人的消費習慣完全不符合這是環境部所提出來的政策我們配合那再來產業面的部分也不是觀光署做得到的跟委員報告"},{"start":13092.773,"end":13114.267,"text":"但是你現在面臨到的全都是飯店業,為什麼本席今天會特別提出來,就是飯店業者很多跟本席來反應,就說今天交通部一個命令下來,環境部一個命令下來,然後結果交通部完全就當作是置身事外,你是主管機關,但是你真正讓飯店業者他們要自己去摸索,"},{"start":13115.365,"end":13124.954,"text":"然後飯店業者他們還講是擔心說那這樣子他都會不會有開罰輔導你們講輔導你們要補助要補貼結果完全沒有任何配套"},{"start":13125.998,"end":13127.139,"text":"因為很多飯店業者真的都在跟本席反映。"},{"start":13151.781,"end":13174.82,"text":"都說這一個部分身為中央主管機關反而把他們放生一個部分是沒有讓有我們足夠的這個旅客市場能夠增加另外一個部分是當限制或是要求越來越多的時候但是中央主管機關好像沒有他的事情一樣我覺得最基本的媒合最基本的協助最基本的來"},{"start":13176.499,"end":13183.974,"text":"鼓勵他們去做到這些事情都沒有辦法的時候我覺得沒有辦法接受這個我們來努力做給本席相關資料好不好謝謝"},{"start":13189.397,"end":13192.979,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質。"},{"start":13211.131,"end":13218.372,"text":"二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、審查十五、"},{"start":13244.708,"end":13271.339,"text":"主席,有請部長還有觀光署署長。陳部長、周署長。委員好。部長好,辛苦了。還有署長,還有我們所有的官員。這個華東地區的這個觀光啊,受到這個0403的地震以及接下來的很多的"},{"start":13272.839,"end":13293.129,"text":"議政加上颱風所以造成北迴鐵路、蘇花公路的嚴重的影響。所以相關的這些也要先謝謝交通部對於相關的這些無論是蘇花公路或是北迴鐵路"},{"start":13294.224,"end":13295.746,"text":"二十一號吧。算是正式這個雙線。對,雙線,雙向。那公路的部分呢?"},{"start":13312.608,"end":13315.19,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":13330.865,"end":13355.538,"text":"在今年八月的時候交通部也特別要求各部會希望多幾辦活動在花蓮當然因為這段時間也受到鐵公路的影響所以我想應該也不多所以是不是請交通部"},{"start":13356.821,"end":13376.806,"text":"因為明年又要開始了明年然後現在這個鐵路也也雙陣線雙線也通了所以這個部分是不是請交通部能夠再發行給各部會多幾辦再發連幾辦這個相關的會議或是活動好不好好沒問題然後另外就是這個"},{"start":13388.35,"end":13411.518,"text":"這個剛剛提到了這個交通部觀光署也提了很多的新的相關的這些措施不管是這個幾天幾夜然後怎麼樣去因應然後也提供這個所謂的3.0的這些措施重點就是剛才我講的就是因為鐵公路"},{"start":13413.254,"end":13417.898,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":13435.834,"end":13452.844,"text":"因為現在明年一月二月,尤其是一月,無論是元旦或是說這個春節,然後這個時候也不會有豪雨颱風,所以是不是可以整。"},{"start":13454.044,"end":13459.327,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光部長陳世凱、董事長及董事長及董事長及董事長及董事長及董事長及"},{"start":13480.836,"end":13507.502,"text":"也就是明年的1月1號開始我們好行的部分是免費大家只要帶悠遊卡、BP就好行都全部免費那台灣觀光的話就一折所以讓大家多鼓勵到花蓮來那部長這個住宿補貼的部分你們還是規劃一下為什麼呢?因為這個你剛剛講的其實如果我們看這個"},{"start":13512.105,"end":13530.343,"text":"按照這個表去年跟今年一直到11月才上升一點點上升一點點這個禮數月的部分所以這個部分還是你們因為新的年度新的預算"},{"start":13531.975,"end":13555.546,"text":"還是請交通部觀光署能夠再繼續的來規劃辦理,這個是非常重要的。那這個大型的活動,怎麼樣去協調相關的部會,因為只要有大型的活動,切實讓這個理事業住房地,當然就會也會帶動什麼呢?"},{"start":13557.298,"end":13562.502,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":13585.731,"end":13586.111,"text":"眾嘉賓眾嘉賓眾嘉賓委員不在。"},{"start":13615.134,"end":13640.564,"text":"有請陳雪真委員發言稍微謝謝,時間暫停我首先要跟我們交通部老部長黃國才部長致意,我不會質詢你還有我們龍哥一起煮龍的今年龍年犯太歲,我們大家生活都要起居小心好,是不是請部長"},{"start":13642.775,"end":13660.461,"text":"好,陳部長,王國才部長不要齁?沒有沒有,陳部長陳部長對不起啊。部長我最近在觀察你啊,我發現你的優點啊,不管誰質詢你啊,不管哪位立委質詢你啊,你先面帶笑容。"},{"start":13661.383,"end":13682.174,"text":"面帶笑容地爭取善意,對不對?就不會吵架也不會兇你嘛,對不對?但是你心裡面回答的不是不,就是研究,你太厲害了。有沒有這一招?你自己感覺咧?我回答不的不多啦。另外是不是請觀光署署長?部長最近臺北跟上海論壇,"},{"start":13691.328,"end":13710.421,"text":"我最近這兩天有一個感觸跟想法他們可以用副市長或是市長來這邊跟台北市交流我們也可以去對方交流你看那個最近馬祖連江縣的縣委書記還有馬委的縣委書記陸續到馬祖來參訪他們也是用次團體的名義過來我們也可以用次團體名義過去我想"},{"start":13720.68,"end":13745.383,"text":"我們觀光署跟對方、跟中國大陸應該沒有正常的管道。那如果能夠用署長、副署長、用觀光旅遊次團體的名義,帶個副理事長、理事長到對面去,正面跟他溝通。我上海剛回來沒多久,"},{"start":13746.863,"end":13765.775,"text":"上海他們那邊的人很希望來台灣來觀光,他說我們團不放,我們團沒有不放啊,所以我們王老部長在場嘛,有放啊,他冒了風險放啦,放的問題是大陸又不放,那你這樣子沒有一個交流的管道,"},{"start":13767.172,"end":13781.784,"text":"這樣下去我覺得不是好事。我們拿錢去買觀光,你看拿很多的補助,讓韓國、東南亞國家的人進來。這不是正道。部長我覺得你可以向上面反映一下。"},{"start":13782.665,"end":13811.969,"text":"好不好?有沒有這樣的想法?包括有一些次團體,你說公協會其實他們跟對岸的交流其實都有在做,不是沒有。但是觀光署是比較官方的身份,那或許對岸不一定接受。但是他們官方的過來我們接受啦。我們其實都一直滿開放的。我們也用官方的過去嘛,你先把先試一下看看嘛,你不是怎麼行呢?是不是?我們探尋看有沒有這樣的機會。你看八月到九月到現在?"},{"start":13813.511,"end":13834.823,"text":"我們進門馬祖開放,來的人大概不過不到6000人。對,在馬祖的狀況是比較少,一天差不多100人。這一次當然我們也建議蔣萬安市長能夠跟華元副市長借著這樣的交流平台,能夠讓一些人過來。這樣對軍事的對視不會那麼緊張那麼嚴重。"},{"start":13841.929,"end":13859.746,"text":"那其實我談到燈會,我在這邊質詢了10年了齁,這個燈會你看,從高雄、台中、桃園,桃園現在明年要組,今年是明年嘛齁?對,明年,明年2月。那桃園辦燈會,又等於是第二輪了。"},{"start":13863.493,"end":13876.363,"text":"我請問周署長,這個各縣是輪流辦了還是就是這幾個6州在辦?他也是提出申請,然後我們兩年宣布一次,那2026,2025在桃園,2026在嘉義,2027是在苗栗。那有沒有機會輪到金門、馬祖、澎湖?"},{"start":13885.973,"end":13914.647,"text":"因為它是大型的計畫,我們目前來講因為要再搭飛機、再搭船的話,因為我們在...你去講沒有就好了嘛,沒有機會嘛,是不是?部長你不要笑啊,你心裡面也是講不啦,對不對?主要是考慮到超大型,那算超大型活動。那我講了嘛,你既然沒有大型、超大型的話,金門、馬祖、澎湖,這是亞細亞的孤兒啊,離島中的離島,是不是?"},{"start":13915.607,"end":13934.405,"text":"有其他的活動有其他活動那你們要準備補助我們馬祖今天要辦燈會你準備補助我們多少如果地方舉辦的話我們通案是縣市政府的話是餘率可以兩百萬兩百萬辦什麼買那個小孩子提的燈籠是不是"},{"start":13935.526,"end":13945.788,"text":"不會啦,我們在這次的桃園的主燈裡面有一個設計也有馬祖的燈。沒有,我嚴肅的跟你報告,你最少要給500萬,因為你這裡都是3800萬,這幾個六都啊,都3800、3800從2020開始,每年都是3800、3800,你最少給500萬,你要不要給我承諾?"},{"start":13966.192,"end":13987.523,"text":"我過兩天要審理預算了,我準備把3800給他砍掉我跟你講,我內心的事情是這樣。朝委會不太開心,不要啦。朝委不會不開心,朝委一定支持我的,是不是?我們來立法院也是有個先來後到,我想我們朝委對我是非常尊重,不是很尊重。"},{"start":13989.889,"end":13999.841,"text":"這樣子好不好,那個跟學生們報告一下,就是燈會的部分,我們跟連江縣政府提出來的時候,我們盡全力來協調。已經協調過了,是你們告訴他數字。"},{"start":14004.417,"end":14031.593,"text":"你應該叫他計畫提出來嘛,是350、400或是450、500,你告訴他我大概給你多少。我們來看一下是不是有等於是馬祖燈會以外的相關的周邊一起來。針對燈會齁,因為各縣市的比例其實都一樣。我知道,我現在講離島,我們離島永遠沒機會輪到對不對。你今天給馬祖五百萬,明年給金門五百萬,甚至更多一點,房屋更多一點,我都同意。"},{"start":14032.193,"end":14057.203,"text":"登會的部分就這樣,但其他的部分我們再來想辦法。從其他的部分來想辦法。這有預算的勒,每年都有預算,連續薪金費,每年都在編的勒,是不是?你要我對這個動手嗎?不要吧。我內心也不想,我也很掙扎。從周邊來協調。對,我們來協助,你能夠達成效果,這樣比較重要。會啦會啦,好不好。你答應我至少給個五百萬。"},{"start":14059.622,"end":14084.128,"text":"你點頭啦,這點頭你不是跟我...這不好說,我們從周邊來協助。我上來執行你就面帶微笑,對不對?內心的世界又是講不,或是研究。我不會協助馬祖宇先生,這個沒問題。好不好,你就給我個面子,不管怎麼樣給個五百萬。我希望風風光光的,我也快下台了,對不對?"},{"start":14085.376,"end":14095.544,"text":"做熱鬧一點好不好,你不要每年都這樣。我們也有管理處在那邊,臨江縣政府的成就也是我們馬館處的成就。我們掛那個燈都不支了,馬館處另外的協助,馬館處有他的經費,你什麼東西都馬館處,馬館處有多少錢?去掉用人費沒剩多少錢?然後都是鐵的,鋼鐵、鐵不能吃的,都是資本門你知道嗎?"},{"start":14115.098,"end":14139.751,"text":"不能吃的,消耗不了好不好?署長有時候會協助。署長齁,你給五百萬齁,這個你答應我,你要做到齁。好,另外我又回頭到前天跟部長質詢的我們的包機,高雄到馬祖的包機。這個第三階段,署長,我跟部長報告過囉,部長說要跟你商量啦齁。"},{"start":14144.929,"end":14154.656,"text":"我早上打電話去觀光署,他們說什麼兩百萬啊?他不知道有這麼一回事,也不知道前面給了我們多少,他也不知道。"},{"start":14155.626,"end":14179.892,"text":"怎麼可以這樣?部長回去,或是部長在那邊接受質詢你們底下都沒聽。您直接打給署長,不用打給觀光署啦。不要打給觀光署?你直接打給署長就好。打給署長喔?是是是。署長你今年講說沒錢嘛對不對?我們一直擠啊一直擠啊,抽了兩百萬出來嘛對不對?那你明年新的預算錢太多太多啦,多少錢我跟你講齁?"},{"start":14182.721,"end":14208.229,"text":"各特色活動補助編列了3.35億,國外包機郵輪補助4623萬。這是非常多的活動,包括我們台灣觀光聯力還有我們各…3.35億,200萬在裡面是拔他一根毛而已啊,你瞭解沒有?"},{"start":14209.215,"end":14229.266,"text":"所以部長,我前天問部長,部長說還要跟你商量咧?我如果是部長的話,陳委員,佈置兩百萬,給你三百萬。部長你要有這個gas、魄力嘛對不對?你這樣我才瞧得起你啊,我已經很看得起你了,但是我希望你再加油好不好?好、好、好。這個、這個周署長。"},{"start":14230.56,"end":14258.96,"text":"第三階段的包機拜託您成全。我在20幾號在民航局我要主持,我跟許智傑委員共同主持馬高航線後續的事宜,要把它轉為固定航班。我們也希望促成。你不要光希望啊,你光希望有什麼用?大家都在希望,你也是一顆螺絲釘欸。你這個螺絲釘把它釘上去的話就固定了嘛,好不好?把它變成固定航班。署長有沒有問題?"},{"start":14261.4,"end":14278.028,"text":"有沒有問題啊?固定航班不是他管的。我知道啊,那個不要啦,我問你就好了,時間到了,我不好意思,召委一直看我。有沒有問題?第三階段這個你幫忙處理。你們現在20幾號要開會嘛,那就看會議的結論怎麼樣?會議結論?我是主席啊,我把結論先告訴你。"},{"start":14287.226,"end":14293.712,"text":"我已經把結論告訴你啦。看你要還是不要嘛。好不好。好啦,謝謝部長、謝謝署長、謝謝主席。好,謝謝陳委員。那個馬祖登會承諾的錢要到,因為我們聽到了齁。齁。"},{"start":14310.66,"end":14318.126,"text":"好接下來請鄭正前委員鄭正前鄭正前委員不在有請羅廷惟委員發言好謝謝召委有請部長陳部長"},{"start":14333.231,"end":14359,"text":"部長好部長來自台中尤其是烏日市你的選區希望部長時時刻刻都可以心中有台中幾個問題來請教一下部長其中第一個我們今年10月15我們有針對台中高鐵娛樂城新建國道1號的閘道可能性江啟臣副院長有在辦公室幫我們召開一個會議部長有出席應該還有印象吧部長有當中有幾個事項想問一下辦理的進度有沒有遇到困難"},{"start":14359.941,"end":14365.631,"text":"國道1號新增閘道連接高鐵特區的一個初步評估作業可行性的評估請問辦理了嗎?"},{"start":14367.485,"end":14394.633,"text":"報告委員這個部分可行性評估要地方來申請我想當時講到一百萬的一個評估經費剛剛學生委員講一個五百萬他不叫資深我不叫蔡沒關係我要一百就好了我想這個評估經費一百萬交通部是不是能夠幫忙一下報告委員這個評估的經費大家各方都有一定的計畫跟一定的比例地方政府要來提出來我想他們一定可以提出計畫他們提出來我們會協助"},{"start":14396.634,"end":14419.67,"text":"評估的經費只要他們願意提出是不是中央可以幫忙協助一下?但是我跟委員再報告一件事目前那個娛樂城啊他們自己對於周邊的整體的交圍的計畫他們自己有一筆預算那目前也交給台中市政府目前正在做整體的整個計畫其實我是比較建議就是說那個整體的計畫做完之後用哪裡真的有需要我們就來做"},{"start":14420.27,"end":14444.985,"text":"我知道沒關係那我如果他們提出其他的計畫希望後來你可以幫忙你可以幫忙協助嗎好謝謝你的承諾那另外我想再跟你提到我們面對這個後裏啊麗寶樂園的周邊交通建設案態度是100分我們看到你們很積極的請國家之力來辦理但是現在面對高鐵娛樂城我想不只是現在我們遇到的國一增加閘道還有所謂的鐵路高架化烏日"},{"start":14445.425,"end":14456.639,"text":"到新烏日還有所謂的大慶、久德這個部分之前你擔任議員的時候我們也都會勘過當時在你之前你是我議員的學長我們會勘的時候應該是20幾億高價化到現在要50幾億高價化再不做會後悔"},{"start":14463.207,"end":14480.206,"text":"所以我想這個部分中央有中央的規定你們也跟我多次講你們就是要按照現在的規定做這樣子的一個財政的一個分配只能夠給予這樣子的補助我能夠體諒但是你能不能跟我確定你們現在能夠補助多少"},{"start":14481.026,"end":14500.033,"text":"報告委員這個金額大家還要再細算但目前的進度是這樣中央對於這個建設是相當的支持願意支持嗎?願意支持所以你公開承認你們支持願意給予補助我們一定會全力支持這個烏日這一段的鐵路的高架化那目前整個可行性研究地方正在修正我們還在等他回文"},{"start":14500.473,"end":14522.568,"text":"我想不只是新烏日站的升等為一級車站喔還有這個大慶站到新烏日的這個高價化我希望早一天喔農曆年前部長我已經有約你們辦公室我們是不是主動早一天去會刊把這個整體的交通一併的到位去看到不管是高鐵漁樂城不管是新烏日還有升級成一級站或者是大慶車站的一個高價化我們一起來看可以嗎?報告委員現在在"},{"start":14523.348,"end":14524.909,"text":"另外部長我想請問我們出國回國都會遇到一個問題行李轉盤等候的行李時間請問你認為等行李這件事情多久算合理?"},{"start":14550.721,"end":14574.187,"text":"對,你回國以後等行李轉盤的行李啊。對一般的旅客來說,如果到了行李轉盤的旁邊,等超過10分鐘就會覺得太久。好,搭飛機到日本關西機場跟大家分享,等行李的時間大概20分鐘。那你知道從關西機場回到台灣,等行李大概要等多久嗎?這個我不曉得。前兩天我一個朋友出國回來,50分鐘。"},{"start":14576.884,"end":14600.943,"text":"問題的癥結點在哪裡?我們先不要講我那個朋友可能是個案我們來看審計部的一個資料審計部資料包括媒體都有報導2023年5月至今日今年的3月各班機抵達行李經一個小時以上到行李轉盤的共有8612架次其中有幾個原因第一來機晚到"},{"start":14601.764,"end":14619.659,"text":"第二、飛機管制第三、班機調度第四、嚴重暴漲的原因是地勤作業我沒有要責備地勤人員但是地勤人員的人力不足早就多次被媒體報導出來我們是不是應該要來解決這個問題另外我再講的是"},{"start":14623.562,"end":14649.879,"text":"現在所有的人在這現場你們有沒有出過國大家有沒有這樣子的一個印象我自己有一個感覺啊我八點的飛機要飛日本我五點要到桃園機場我恨不得在台中就能搭機但是不行現在只能到桃園我們希望現階段到桃園就是三個小時前要到桃園機場check in那請問一下我幾點要出發我三點要搭坐車"},{"start":14651.325,"end":14656.092,"text":"到桃園機場沒有高鐵座啊所以我等個晚上不用睡覺"},{"start":14657.421,"end":14682.991,"text":"我等於提早能夠出發對我來說我就是不用睡覺來換這對旅客來說是一個很痛苦的事情到底check in的時間能不能提前縮短這部分來做一個研擬到後續我們拿到行李這個部分能不能縮短時效這部分我希望桃園機場是不是未來能夠給我們一個機會把這個部分來做一個專案然後來做一個檢討"},{"start":14683.891,"end":14689.138,"text":"三點出發我之前出國也是這樣子經驗一模一樣一模一樣當然就是整夜不用睡嘛尤其要帶小朋友小朋友也更辛苦一點我曾經有一次為了這樣子我八點吃安眠藥啦"},{"start":14702.555,"end":14704.697,"text":"所以我們一直在努力嘛之前我就在講台中人盼著虎航日本線希望已經幻滅啦明年呢"},{"start":14722.535,"end":14745.006,"text":"明年呢?台中武航?我想台中武航這個部分還是希望不要只飛兩個夏季航班然後又不飛。台中人要的是定期穩定的航班而不是夏季限定的航班。這個部分我想多方來做檢討。當然桃園機場可以再做一個檢討部分。我們台中機場是不是能夠增加更多的航線?能夠彌補這些時差?"},{"start":14746.967,"end":14762.181,"text":"這個都是我們要努力的但是我剛剛所提到的臺中要增加航班航線桃園機場是不是能夠縮短這些時間能夠讓旅客出門的時候開心而不是第一天很痛苦第一天只想到飯店效率上的提高是必然要做的"},{"start":14762.501,"end":14790.828,"text":"這個部分您願意同意後續你會再追蹤這個部分嗎?審計部的報告寫得很清楚喔心理轉盤等的時間高達一個小時8000多班次能看嗎?桃機針對這個議題其實也會來做精進他們針對地勤也好或者航空公司也會找來再開會再做精進的計畫我想時間有限我不想再念網路上的一些文章跟抱怨文其中不乏有地勤人員的一些抱怨文"},{"start":14791.488,"end":14791.588,"text":"好謝謝羅委員"},{"start":14821.471,"end":14821.811,"text":"接下來有請張祺凱委員發言陳部長"},{"start":14857.406,"end":14873.025,"text":"部長我現在開始要談一個非常重要也是非常急迫性的重要政策我們要一起來搶救基隆港基隆港會因為事件整個回港嗎?整個港口會毀滅掉嗎?"},{"start":14875.563,"end":14897.369,"text":"基隆港長期以來都是我們台灣很重要的經濟命脈,到目前為止喔,很多國際的郵輪停靠的都是在基隆港,對我們經濟、國際觀光影響非常的大。我現在先問你一個很重要的問題,最近啊,12月11號晚上,陽明海運有一艘10萬"},{"start":14900.963,"end":14919.51,"text":"頓擊的移民輪最近在基隆港要進港的時候發生了擱淺。部長裡面注意到這個案子。他後來出動了四艘的拖船救援才緊急把他拖走了。他是10萬頓擊的。"},{"start":14923.755,"end":14949.415,"text":"我後續沒有追嗎?請去趕快把他追清楚。重點是什麼?重點是什麼?柏定,最近世界如果真的在基隆的話,他這個運天然氣的天然氣船是18萬噸,一個10萬噸的,就賠不出來啦,不死,不死點精出不來就不會死。現在一個基隆港,"},{"start":14950.39,"end":14977.542,"text":"可能馬上要面臨因為市街有長長高達重達18萬噸的天然氣船要進出我來講更嚴重的問題他最近就要做環評了在上次環評的時候市街環評的時候交通部的台灣港務股份有限公司具名在會上提出了三個非常重要的建議"},{"start":14978.991,"end":14989.865,"text":"呼籲大家一定要注意一共那時候曾經做了真實超船模擬測試這個非常重要"},{"start":14992.553,"end":15020.345,"text":"二十五次的真實超船模擬這個測試,這幾個二十五次裡面有一次就出現碰撞事件了。還有兩次是高危險都差一點撞到這個西邊或者東邊的這個防波堤。五天這樣有危險嗎?二十五次一次擦撞兩次高危險二十五分之三有危險嗎?有危險嗎?你站在交通部長的這個這麼重要的位置"},{"start":15021.84,"end":15033.076,"text":"如果世界做好之後一部天然氣船18萬噸的一年裡面可能就有一次會是碰撞的兩次高危險嚴不嚴重"},{"start":15036.065,"end":15062.402,"text":"報告委員我們當然希望風險要降到最低對交通部的立場來說整個基隆港的營運是相當的重要所以未來他們在環評的過程當中當然交通部這邊也會提出我們的看法那包含港務公司您所提供的資料也有看到港務公司其實也有提出他們的看法這個部分我們都會提給這個環評的單位讓他們去做審慎的評估部長你判到二十分之三、二十五分之三也不嚴重"},{"start":15065.006,"end":15093.308,"text":"這個實際當時的狀況我不瞭解所以現在在這邊沒有啊這個機率啊實際的狀況就是有一次是擦撞啊碰撞啊兩次差一點碰撞啊這個是模擬的狀態這個是模擬的狀態可是跟實際到時候當然就是要避免說真實發生的事情只要真實發生那不得了欸18萬噸的天然氣欸我剛一開始為什麼給你看一個例子是10萬噸的10萬噸是一個撇沒串的木屍殭層四部拖吊船去掉啊"},{"start":15095.302,"end":15115.184,"text":"報告委員他就是模擬的狀態之後會有一些狀況那就這個狀況其實台灣港澳公司也有提出一些未來可以改進的方向跟他們講說要怎麼做未來會更安全這是模擬的意義啦所以一個很清楚部長很清楚的表達在最近如果開環評的時候交通部"},{"start":15115.905,"end":15130.36,"text":"要清楚的表達你們對這個事情的後續,還有它危險性的處理方式,對不對?這個非常明確,這是第一個,對不對?這個答案是有的。好,來我們來看,它有兩點是很重要的。剛才講的是說,有可能會碰撞。"},{"start":15131.201,"end":15156.731,"text":"他還提了第二點啊,他說等這個世界如果真的做好之後,天然氣的那個傳進去之後啊,會影響到港內的卸貨跟整個卸貨的停泊這個作業。這個提出來之後你們有沒有去做怎麼樣改善或者要怎麼樣因應?提出來這個之後其實我們因應的方式就是說他未來是在外港,他不會進內港。LNG船他會是在外港不會進來裡面。"},{"start":15158.558,"end":15160.819,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部部長陳世凱、交通部長陳世凱、董事長陳世凱、董事長"},{"start":15182.369,"end":15198.759,"text":"我們在2021年的9月份有發生基隆港碼頭起重機那個掉壁一個墜落事件大家可能還記憶猶新心有遺跡那現在那天你們就提了交通部提出了一個提醒說"},{"start":15201.496,"end":15228.906,"text":"當天然氣的這個運輸船靠港的時候你在卸貨的時候旁邊如果有大型的這個郵輪或者大型的這個船經過這會有海浪的一個輕波作用嘛這很危險啊有專家王國采王前部長在探討這是很危險的事情啊這你們在提醒他會不會重演2021年9月份的時候碼頭起重機那個整個掉幣墜落的那個事情"},{"start":15230.442,"end":15237.032,"text":"這個叫星波作用嘛。那只有兩種解決方案喔。第一個,那時候大的船就不要進來了。阿我幹這樣站起來了。"},{"start":15238.786,"end":15261.187,"text":"台灣有那麼多國際的觀光船遊輪都要在基隆港可是因為你世界你要避免你要避免這個天然氣船沒有沒有問題所以你要減少或者讓國際遊輪不要到基隆港去那基隆就完蛋了台灣的觀光旅遊也會受到非常大波折這一點點嘛對不對那第一個還有一個方法嘛你要注意到他的安全嘛你們後續有做了怎麼樣檢討"},{"start":15262.088,"end":15286.588,"text":"報告委員其實這些都是事先提醒啦在環評的時候我們都會把這些意見提供出來那未來當然就會避免包含說第一他不可以在尖峰的時間進來不要影響到我們一般的商船的營運那第二在惡劣的氣候底下他也不能夠進來這個到時候我們也都會做限制所以部長再談下來你看為了一個世界對基隆港的發展經濟的發展觀光的衝擊有多大"},{"start":15287.185,"end":15312.391,"text":"報告委員我們現在所提醒的就是未來不要造成影響所以他如果不要做不要做世界不要做在那裡基隆還有全台灣的觀光經濟就不會受影響啊所以這是一個重要的決策關鍵點喔所以齊凱今天一開始本期就要提的這是一個重要的關鍵點今天談的是一個基隆港會不會滅港而且他有急迫性因為馬上就要做環評了所以保定是"},{"start":15313.427,"end":15326.897,"text":"交通部長要管觀光啊對不對而且這個牽扯到經濟發展整個基隆港歷史悠久的台灣的經濟命脈觀光的命脈我定你要保住喔不要害因為你沒有講話或者是嚴重的失職導致"},{"start":15327.762,"end":15345.803,"text":"基隆港我們不會讓它有負面的影響啦負面的影響發生之前我們都會事先提醒並且事先避免今天該講今天我提的這三點要怎麼解決該提醒的你知道下次環評委員會交通部一定要去講這個內容我都會提出來內容一定要講這個是一個第二個更具體的來我提三個點第一個"},{"start":15348.276,"end":15358.139,"text":"二、請責令港務局針對四階計畫興建期間跟完工以後港區安全的維護跟保障問題進行通盤的調查跟研究跟規劃。"},{"start":15367.262,"end":15389.381,"text":"港務公司針對4階計畫實施以後對基隆港的民用商用的漁民生計這個會衝擊到漁民的生計喔休旋的旅遊還有整個運輸的接駁等相關的要進行通盤的研究跟計畫而且提出計畫可以齁好第二個禁令狀第三相關報告要現期就完成完成之前"},{"start":15390.442,"end":15410.774,"text":"相關的問題要獲得解決之前,解決之前,問題提出來解決之前,針對世界計畫的環評會議等基於保障基隆港的市民安全、生計還有全國運輸的安全環境的保護前提之下,交通部不能隨便去點頭去答應。"},{"start":15412.162,"end":15437.861,"text":"可以做得到嗎?報告委員,我們尊重環評的那個程序啦。不是,他沒有達到你剛講的這些,你交通部不能去點頭答應啊。對不對?當然如果解決你的問題就可以啊。阿沒有解決,我怎麼說呢?基隆港真的就沒辦法。對台灣那個整個觀光經濟衝擊陣。我們會要求他們來承諾。蛤?我們會要求,在環評的過程當中我們會要求他們要承諾。要求承諾齁?好來,那我們來談。相關報告你什麼時候可以給我?你們那兩個報告。"},{"start":15439.83,"end":15460.098,"text":"二個月的時間好不好?兩個月齁?OK好好謝謝部長這個事情真的很重要齁部長你當過發言人啦齁你算是比較跨部會的去看這個事情不能夠國家為了說天然氣一定要過電一定要過結果沒有注意到安全的問題特別是對我們全國"},{"start":15461.806,"end":15478.394,"text":"供獻在經濟跟民生在觀光有那麼大的一個基隆港我們一定要努力不要因為錯誤的政策特別是不要因為交通部該講的話沒有去講喔環評一下就過了呼哩轟隆世界就弄起來了結果弄到後來基隆港是沒港的好不好好我們一起努力謝謝好謝謝張委員"},{"start":15487.042,"end":15508.197,"text":"好,接下來請高津素梅委員。高津素梅,高津素梅委員不在。有請秋洛華委員發言。謝謝主席。主席有請交通部陳部長還有觀光署周署長。周署長。委員好。"},{"start":15514.82,"end":15519.755,"text":"部長好,署長好,先請教部長及署長,您們本身有宗教信仰嗎?"},{"start":15523.122,"end":15545.447,"text":"兩位都有因為對於宗教信仰要保持尊重的態度本席是不會多問今天要和部長還有署長討論觀光的部分其中本席想針對穆斯林認證的問題就叫部長還有署長本席有看到觀光署在2011年開始每年就有編列小額的預算委託中國回教協會推動清真的認證署長您知道嗎?"},{"start":15548.535,"end":15571.483,"text":"全力在推動預算有限那我們有兩個協會一個回教協會一個穆斯林協會一個回教協會一個穆斯林協會2017年起蔡政府當時就有推動新南向的政策穆斯林友善環境也是重點的政策的項目那經濟部國貿局也有委託外貿協會成立台灣清真推廣中心署長沒錯吧"},{"start":15572.443,"end":15596.336,"text":"對,我也拜託,因為他的主管機關是在經濟部,那麼我們是拜託相關的,包括他的餐廳、廚房的認證。是,餐廳、廚房。對,我們有分時間。那醫師人有上環境的認證的單位是否符合標準是由外貿協會來做認定嗎?他們要看什麼太陽,因為基本上我們用餐是一個很重要的。"},{"start":15596.736,"end":15599.997,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":15615.184,"end":15637.987,"text":"東協10國,南亞6國,加上紐澳總共是18國。各國所佔的穆斯林人數大概是多少?署長,您知道嗎?對,像泰國的話,它有將近700萬是穆斯林。對,其實像泰國是一個佛教國家,它仍然有很高的比例。是,除了我們剛才就是談到的這些穆斯林國家的人口數嘛,那其中最多的是印度尼西亞、巴基斯坦"},{"start":15638.867,"end":15665.894,"text":"還有印度、孟加拉、馬來西亞,這樣子算下來大約的人數是8億以上。那部長和署長知道哈拉跟清真它的差異在哪裡嗎?這個我不知道,署長知道嗎?哈拉和清真,因為剛才署長有提到在有它的部分。對,所以有一個是,我們是中文的翻譯不同啦。那他們不吃的食物有哪,主要是哪一個?"},{"start":15667.848,"end":15670.069,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署及所屬單位預算"},{"start":15686.882,"end":15688.124,"text":"有一個是由中央廚房還有一個是"},{"start":15701.101,"end":15725.858,"text":"哈拉認證那穆斯林餐廳是穆斯林開設的餐廳那穆斯林友善的餐廳他是可以賣穆斯林他們禁止飲食的餐廳但需要經過嚴密的區隔哈拉認證的部分跟委員報告一下就是在我們叫做在做這個生命結束的時候他要送送可蘭金是對他是很嚴謹的SOP是對"},{"start":15726.838,"end":15751.341,"text":"所以一般來講哈拉認證的餐廳的要求是比較高是那我們進來台灣我們要發展觀光那本席要舉幾個例子給部長還有署長知道我們來看到那這間位於宜蘭的餐廳他是穆斯林友善的認證的餐廳那當就我們從照片來看他本身也有販賣豬肉沒有做到區隔處理食材那看起來要他們要做區隔也是不容易的那我們再看到另外一家餐廳"},{"start":15753.124,"end":15780.701,"text":"這也是位於宜蘭的餐廳他一樣也是穆斯林友善認證的餐廳他一樣也有販售豬肉他真的能做到食材區隔嗎那我們再看下一家苗栗的餐廳他也是同樣他是穆斯林友善認證那他也有販售豬肉那我們再看到另外一家嘉義的餐廳他也是獲得穆斯林友善的餐廳但一樣也有販賣豬肉那部長署長這樣子會不會太離譜了如果是有具體的話我們就要求下架"},{"start":15781.181,"end":15805.115,"text":"那這還不是最離譜的,我們來看什麼是最離譜的。對,他們有一些很嚴格的要求的。是,我們看到還有一個位於嘉義縣的餐廳,它是在觀光署的網站上面有公布,它也是唯一一家獲得HALA餐廳認證的。那餐廳是不可以出現豬肉的嘛,它是最嚴謹的。結果它的菜單有什麼,署長部長您有看到嗎?有,有看到豬肉。有看到豬肉。對,那這樣子,"},{"start":15808.893,"end":15811.374,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":15824.54,"end":15825.961,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質及所屬單位預算。"},{"start":15843.608,"end":15863.538,"text":"我們再盤點一下我又要跟22個縣市政府他們再討論一下是全面清查那如果這個個案的部分我們馬上下架馬上下架對我們要查證一下馬上下架那為什麼會有這麼離譜的事情因為我們的餐廳也確實有百頁啦那很多人對牧師的認知啊也不是那麼嚴謹"},{"start":15865.039,"end":15869.544,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":15888.841,"end":15911.404,"text":"所以有些穆斯林的餐廳他只要這樣提出的就好。只就像署長您提到有些人他吃過邊疏那有些是完全過完瓢盆他都不能使用到那這些就是我們所提到的像哈拉跟清真他們也是非常嚴謹的去做去的。對我們講說屠宰的過程中還要送金然後很嚴格的標準是那這個我想說這個還是要按照穆斯林的要求標準來做。"},{"start":15912.806,"end":15920.355,"text":"為什麼會有這麼離譜的是那剛才這六間餐廳他都是透過伊斯蘭商務發展有限公司所論證那部長和署長你們可以看到這個他們這兩張圖的差異性嗎?"},{"start":15925.537,"end":15927.198,"text":"三天就可以查證了,這看起來在台北嘛。"},{"start":15952.365,"end":15972.628,"text":"委員所講的這個個案,他們可以快速來查證。因為這是外貿協會嘛,所以我馬上就直接去跟他們聯繫。因為那個在觀光署的網站上面,他是不是參考台灣清真的推廣中心的網站,他們已經有宣告,就是不擔保網站內容的正確性,觀光署也要對網站內容來做檢討。"},{"start":15974.069,"end":15990.707,"text":"我們也看到這個對外的貿易發展協會他們也有提出在110年的時候5月6號發文他的發文字號是為外專制第1102301234號他的內容有提到就是他們為了要配合清真寺或是回教團體認證請教長簽名"},{"start":15993.59,"end":15994.391,"text":"邀請邮號委員發言。"},{"start":16035.349,"end":16036.074,"text":"謝謝趙偉,有請部長。好,陳部長。"},{"start":16043.875,"end":16050.819,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":16067.51,"end":16093.312,"text":"國民黨智庫國中基金會所提供的一個建議書、建言書那現在是12月18號那想請教一下那時候所提供的這個建議書那你看完之後你覺得有什麼部分你會來去做一個改進或是在觀光的部分策略上提供一個簡短的一個具體回應報告委員所提到的這個觀光資源整合不足的部分我們最近也都在做檢討跟觀光署都有在做檢討"},{"start":16094.373,"end":16122.572,"text":"數位技術應用不足的部分其實目前正在努力推進當中不過還是不夠還是不夠這個我們會繼續做那國際宣傳的力道這個跟預算當然也有關係但我們現在宣傳的方向可能會稍稍做調整例如說有很多委員在建議就是有一些網紅啦或者是一些有流量的一些藝人等等之類的可能會比更大型的這些宣傳效果還好一點點那我們的比例上可能也會來做調整"},{"start":16123.092,"end":16146.758,"text":"那法規的部分我們有應該也會來做檢討如果尤其是業者如果有反映業者或者是相關工協會有來反映說哪些法規跟不上時代了該修我們會來修那本期還是希望針對這個五大觀光挑戰那如果說都已經有做一個充分檢討的話是不是就提供給本委員會還有一份書面資料針對這五題的一個一個具體的一個內容"},{"start":16149.519,"end":16169.912,"text":"接下來本席還是要針對雙城論壇的部分那像未來的話部長你有沒有可能有考慮為了我們的台灣的觀光產業還來傾覆大陸一攤來談是不是如何能夠來做這個兩邊就邀請這個大陸人也可以來台灣做觀光旅遊"},{"start":16171.205,"end":16194.842,"text":"當然,如果說推廣觀光的部分是交通部很重要的責任,所以如果有需要到什麼地方去推廣觀光,我們都很願意去做。所以部長是願意復路來溝通這個政策?這個部分也要看兩岸的政治氣氛。你知道過去來講的話,這個部長去中國大陸復路來做這個政策的溝通,你有印象嗎?"},{"start":16196.095,"end":16222.254,"text":"我之前是沒有印象。其實是有的。包括在羅英雪法國部長也親赴大陸曾經溝通過這個公共打擊犯罪的這個部分。那所以部長如果可以的話,你看這個往前這個包括陳菊,還包括賴清德總統,還包括謝長迪,還包括蔡英文整他們都曾經俘虜過。那你有去過中國大陸嗎?我以前有去過。有去過哪些城市?"},{"start":16225.287,"end":16246.438,"text":"廣東、上海。上海。那所以說在這次雙城論壇的部分,那像他們這次所提到的之後會來台灣旅遊的部分,那交通部這邊有準備好了嗎?其實台灣一直都很歡迎所有的觀光客來台灣,都有準備。好,那直接問這個,那剛才許多偉也提到這個禁團令,"},{"start":16247.498,"end":16259.237,"text":"那其實中央雖然短暫的這個兩個月的這個開放,但事實上以這個疫情期間前這個進團令到現在差不多是四年十個月了。那預計什麼時候可以打開這個進團令?"},{"start":16260.385,"end":16288.274,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們滾動在檢討啦但是沒有一個預定的時間因為目前大家雖然今天在討論是說對岸有準備要開放團客來台灣的部分但也都還沒有定案所以我現在也沒有辦法很確定的跟委員報告那滾動檢討其實本席就是要針對滾動檢討這個部分那在今天的講法在之前的報導上或是像今天的回應上其實大家都聽的都是差不多的內容"},{"start":16288.934,"end":16310.73,"text":"那這個部分是等於是透過一個媒體去做呼籲但是本席要直接就交部長那在今年那曾經與陸委會主委或是國安會秘書長還曾經針對這個淨團令的這個議題還交通部部長這邊從你接任到現在有沒有主動提出或是主動針對這個議題實際討論過我們有交換過意見那交換過意見在什麼時候什麼樣的一個會議上"},{"start":16318.816,"end":16337.342,"text":"參會不算喔?不是參會啦。對。正式的會議其實有一兩次。那是一個什麼樣的會議?就是我跟陸委會主委約碰面的。那我們有很多議題在討論。這是其中一項。不只是這個議題,那這是其中一項。那本期是要"},{"start":16338.542,"end":16353.739,"text":"表示就是說這個進團令、進團令其實像剛才洪孟凱委員所提到其實許多的旅行業者包括相關民宿業者他們其實還是會需要這個兩岸去做一個正常的交流"},{"start":16354.46,"end":16370.142,"text":"那如果說今天現團令進團令的部分,它還是停在一個沒有辦法實際上有共識有進展的一個情況,那這個議題等同於就是一直不會開放。當然說這個問題也不是出在於這個部長您啦,"},{"start":16370.583,"end":16400.166,"text":"但是我是在想如果今天來講有心有意要為了這個我國的台灣的這個包括旅遊觀光的部分能夠來去做提升的話那其實是需要實質討論的那陸委會或是包括國安會秘書長也有針對這個部分你有跟他討論過嗎我們碰面的時候有講到這件事那他們有在兩岸的各種管道上有實際上要來討論或是釋出三頁的問題嗎除了媒體放話之外"},{"start":16402.231,"end":16408.707,"text":"所以你等於是表達了他還希望解除淨產率的一個看法嗎?"},{"start":16409.722,"end":16431.755,"text":"我們當然希望促進觀光啦,在觀光的部分我們希望能夠……那切入的角度的話是表達希望能夠解除這個淨團令嗎?也是在瞭解啦,也是在瞭解說目前的狀況底下那…因為本席還是要表達的是說,交通部的立場應該是希望來解除這個淨團令才對啦,當然應該責任不在你。"},{"start":16432.515,"end":16453.553,"text":"那如果說今天來講你表達了這個立場如果說是第一要先確定是明確的你是表達這個立場沒錯嗎我希望整個那個觀光能夠更多的人所以說你要提出這個需求那他們才要去陸委會去做溝通啊我們都有提出這樣的檢討對所以說你是有提出這樣的檢討希望檢出淨團令嗎"},{"start":16455.701,"end":16470.356,"text":"沒有說一定要解除淨團令,我們是希望對岸可不可以趕快解除他們的淨團令。所以說這都是對的,那我們來看一下數據。在馬英九執政時期的時候,來台的人數幾乎的話都是兩三百萬人,所以到四百萬人。"},{"start":16471.317,"end":16491.716,"text":"那所以說今天來講這個變成是無解啊那如果說今天你要把達這個立場你是要先站在是希望能夠檢讀這個淨團令還有讓兩岸之間就有一個正常的交流還有正常的觀光旅遊那陸委會他要適度的來去直接的去溝通這個議題啊那你知道陸委會主委有沒有實際上在溝通這個議題"},{"start":16492.937,"end":16521.223,"text":"這個我還真的是不曉得。不曉得嗎?所以說交通部表達立場但是陸委會主委卻沒有公布這個議題嗎?或許有啦但是這個部分那有的話因為這個議題重要他要透過什麼樣的管道?除了媒體之外?這個我不知道他們有什麼管道。好啦那本席還是要提出啦其實像以前你看到剛才的這個圖不管是陳菊賴清德總統曾經去中國大陸去做交流互訪"},{"start":16521.863,"end":16541.046,"text":"那如果說這個問題來講停留在這個媒體上面提說要對岸怎麼樣還台灣這邊怎麼樣那如果這邊不主動出擊的話那我想這個問題就無解了那在明年要達到的來台的這個目標啊那我相信的話其實還是困難重重的那最後"},{"start":16541.687,"end":16560.53,"text":"就是在這個來台的部分,等一下直接就叫一下署長,這個部分是不是包含來台的人數啊,這個700萬人啊,也會包含移工的數據在裡面?當然沒有,只要停留台灣這個超過90天,我們就不列入來台數。"},{"start":16562.284,"end":16588.693,"text":"好那沒關係那本席這邊所收到的消息啊還是東南亞的移工來台的部分他涵蓋在目前的這個數據裡面那絕對沒有絕對沒有絕對沒有好OK那沒關係那大致上如果有的話大約目前是七十幾萬到八十幾萬的這個移台移工在台人數那其中有一萬人口左右是本席這邊收到的消息那本席還是會後再跟你討論好了好好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":16595.838,"end":16615.188,"text":"好,謝謝有委員。接下來有請黃珊珊委員發言。謝謝主席,我想請部長跟署長。陳部長、周署長。"},{"start":16622.125,"end":16650.352,"text":"是部長部長我想今天大家都很關心觀光的事情喔那昨天還聽到了雙城他們說上回上海會先開放團客那我也看到你的回應是他們全面開放團客我們才考慮把我們的禁團令給討論是當然希望他可以全面解除啦不要只有開上海這樣沒錯我們歡迎所有的人不管是誰禁團令的部分其實我們希望中國不要有禁團令也不要禁止他們的自由行來到台灣"},{"start":16651.152,"end":16671.113,"text":"好,所以你明年的預計的旅客人數還是樂觀的一千萬嗎?很多人說這樣不夠樂觀,但我覺得我們今天...這個有沒有包括大陸的旅客?我們今年沒有達到的目標我們明年要達到。現在已經達到疫情前大概六成左右,其實還有很大的成長空間吧?"},{"start":16672.385,"end":16696.4,"text":"對,我們基本上因為這樣算起來我們大概可以超過750萬。所以我問的是您這1000萬有沒有包括大陸的旅客?陸港澳的部分本來都含在裡面。含在裡面,所以要有陸港澳你才有1000萬,對吧?它的比例問題了。我簡單問一下署長,我們到底今年我們組織了多少次的海外旅展還有觀光的推廣活動?"},{"start":16697.561,"end":16712.699,"text":"我們的觀光推廣活動是不同市場,那旅展的話有幾場﹖總共多少場﹖觀光協會說的一年大概24場對不對﹖對,那是我們委託TVA做的,還有一些不是委託﹖好,那大概幾場﹖"},{"start":16715.102,"end":16716.744,"text":"關光多媒體資料庫網站開放資料給全世界來看。"},{"start":16730.06,"end":16754.277,"text":"因為我們剛剛講旅展是實體的要花很多錢去外面辦但是數位化是很重要的把台灣的所有的觀光資源包括節慶、觀光的業者還有景點資料我們都在這個網站上對嗎對包括年曆包括22個縣市政府的主要活動部長你有看過這個網站嗎這個網站我還沒有看過你沒看過好應該要把這些資源變成規格化數位化還有國際化的資料是"},{"start":16757.124,"end":16772.596,"text":"這個問題是我想問一下署長這個網站有在你的海外旅展上面做過推廣嗎我們在海外是單一市場有沒有推廣過這個網站在你的各式各樣的旅展推廣活動上沒有有還是沒有簡單講"},{"start":16774.804,"end":16778.227,"text":"現在的問題是觀光多媒體資料庫要進行國際化宣傳我們上去看了裡面的相關的觀光遊戲主題的業者資料"},{"start":16803.851,"end":16832.83,"text":"英文的多少?英文的部分都有齊全嗎?業者資料有沒有?署長你什麼都不知道嗎?新南向的相關的資源他有翻譯成新南向的語言版本嗎?也沒有也就是部長我要說的是我們有網站我們有資料開放最有趣的是部長可能要今天執行完你看一看因為"},{"start":16835.097,"end":16861.002,"text":"連審計部都看不下去啊台灣觀光資料庫資訊資料庫查核報告裡面說這些觀光多媒體資料有92%的資料沒有得到相關單位的授權所以沒有辦法開放一般使用者查詢、瀏覽而且有非常多的缺失也就是說你做了一個網站有很多的資料不能被查詢不能被瀏覽請問你做這個網站幹嘛"},{"start":16862.802,"end":16872.78,"text":"二、台灣這麼多景點的資料在一個網站上不能被查詢不能被瀏覽還被審計部糾正這個網站是做來幹嘛這是第二個"},{"start":16874.147,"end":16899.575,"text":"他們說已經改善了但是我們再去看裡面的英文網站還是沒有任何相關所謂的觀光遊戲主題的相關業者資料所以部長你今天看一看吧好如果這個這麼重要的數位化我們是一個智慧台灣的國家我們竟然把這些這麼重要的資料竟然是查不到是最後我還再講一下我們有書發布不是嗎是"},{"start":16900.735,"end":16914.471,"text":"相關的行銷資料你們做不到可能要請人家幫忙吧。最重要的是我們有沒有辦法讓國外的觀光客國外的業者看到合法、可信還有高品質的相關資料庫。"},{"start":16915.572,"end":16918.614,"text":"五年當時我相信在疫情的時候這很重要現在可能又覺得不重要了但是部長"},{"start":16935.206,"end":16961.58,"text":"這件事情我覺得非常簡單就是如果我們要建立一個平台因為現在的民眾自己上去找資料找訂房你知道這裡面資料庫裡面還有一個網站叫做旅宿網部長知道嗎?對這個我知道旅宿網如果上去我剛剛上去查了很久我想查去日月潭的飯店我怎麼查都給我的回答是搜尋結果是零"},{"start":16963.22,"end":16966.242,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":16985.775,"end":17001.622,"text":"而且是我們的觀光景點資料庫竟然沒有對外的這些英文的相關的Promote我實在不知道我們開放這個資料要幹嘛最後要給部長一個建議啦因為現在的法國他們是輔導所謂的旅遊新創業者他們來由新創業來做一個所謂的同業採購資訊平台"},{"start":17008.285,"end":17013.327,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、交通部部長陳世凱、"},{"start":17024.85,"end":17046.996,"text":"就像現在民眾會透過這些國際網站去訂房一樣省掉了那些所謂的轉接費用所以部長你去看一看法國做得很好法國的觀光應該是全世界最強的吧好不好然後我們台灣如果號稱數位產業智慧台灣這個網站我只能跟你說不及格到極點"},{"start":17048.815,"end":17061.117,"text":"我們台灣人尤其是我們看的最好笑的是這個網站的瀏覽率不到觀光署的官網的十分之一也就是我去看官網的人還比看這個網站的人多十倍"},{"start":17063.645,"end":17085.137,"text":"這個資源不是做得不夠好根本沒有人要上去查因為第一不友善第二沒資料第三功能上面就像剛剛署長說的我們不知道在提供什麼最重要的是如果透過數位你沒有相關國外的英文或其他的語言的話你乾脆不要設好了這是哪門子的資料庫"},{"start":17086.118,"end":17087.359,"text":"第二、隨便一個新創業者做的網站都會比你好。"},{"start":17111.178,"end":17135.235,"text":"最重要是現在請部長去查一下觀光署跟委外建制維護的所有的系統我希望看到你的成果報告我們所有的辦事處也都有獨立的也都有但是沒有整合不好使用或者是對台灣所有的東西data並沒有完善的放在裡面那真的還不如一個國際網站是好不好部長上去看一看語速網跟這個資料庫"},{"start":17136.823,"end":17150.288,"text":"都不及格。我希望在年底,沒有幾天了,明年開議之前,這個東西再上去看,至少要比現在好。請部長處理,好嗎?好,謝謝。好,謝謝黃委員。接下來有請葉元之委員發言。"},{"start":17177.262,"end":17177.722,"text":"呃,麻煩請部長陳部長"},{"start":17186.741,"end":17210.495,"text":"委員好部長好今天討論的觀光產業因為我們都知道今年觀光逆差可能非常高啦高達7000多億年初的時候交通部長設定一個來台的觀光客目標是1200萬看起來應該也跳票了啦當然有一些方法就看觀光署跟交通部願不願意做但我今天針對幾個議題跟您請教一下第一個"},{"start":17211.576,"end":17220.368,"text":"我們現在淘機每天設定的來台灣的每天的班機大概多少?航班大概幾架?設定的。是不是850架?"},{"start":17226.958,"end":17242.337,"text":"八百五十架是目前的這個上限上限嘛對但實際上到目前為止每一天大概幾架平均大概在六百五、七百大概六百五到六百九啦還不到七百啦是就差了大概一百五十架左右其實這個都是損失啦"},{"start":17242.697,"end":17258.288,"text":"為什麼因為部長那個不是目標那是上限上限對不能超過那個對因為他上限850嘛所以代表說我們的容納實際上是可以到850因為我們有很多參數嘛包括就是停機坪的數量跑道的容量或者是航廈容量對"},{"start":17258.948,"end":17283.448,"text":"各方面都算完之後我們應該是可以達到850的上限但是實際上因為媒合的問題會有耗損率所以大概航空公司申請有的時間帶他又放棄或幹嘛最後大概就只有650到690等於是耗損率非常高大概差了150架左右這150架的航班就是非常多的機位這些機位都有可能是可以讓外國旅客坐了來台灣"},{"start":17284.554,"end":17289.605,"text":"那航空公司認為說我現在因為我們現在出國的人數比回國還多啊"},{"start":17290.424,"end":17313.191,"text":"所以我要把我們的國人從國外載回來都已經可能沒位子了我怎麼還有機會去載外國的旅客呢所以第一件事情是我覺得桃機應該要去思考把這個媒合的效率提高你至少不可能說讓讓那個每天即將搬機650到690啊這實在是我覺得是一個很大空間的浪費啦不知道這能不能做到"},{"start":17315.632,"end":17338.574,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們每天850班是每天的航班的上限但是這個850班是每天全天24小時那基本上來講航空公司在安排航班的時候會配合他本身的航線特性去找這個時間所以我們會有所謂的時間帶的一個申請跟分配這我都了解現在的問題是"},{"start":17340.856,"end":17354.09,"text":"有的是你們因為參數的設定的問題他本來其他全部都符合但是就是因為卡到這個一個上限850架導致於申請不到反而讓我們的850也達不到我覺得這個是參數設定的問題這絕對有檢討的空間跟委員報告因為"},{"start":17360.616,"end":17386.71,"text":"監控的時間好的時段是每一個航空公司都想搶啦但是這個就會有它的一個限制所以有一個先來後到這樣的關係那基本上如果說沒有沒有有沒有調整的空間嗎你回答我這個問題嗎有沒有還是沒有辦法會滾動的調整時間帶的管理是每半年會來做檢討因為我們是看結果我們看結果我覺得你結果就是不好你應該要找出方法來啦"},{"start":17388.393,"end":17391.655,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":17409.725,"end":17413.549,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質"},{"start":17426.22,"end":17427.041,"text":"總經理你要負什麼責任嗎?要不要?"},{"start":17444.501,"end":17471.919,"text":"我如果可以找到,因為今天時間不夠,因為我還有別的議題要問。但如果我有機會,我利用集合管道提出解決方法,你要不要負責?要不要?跟委員報告,我們現在這個頒表是每半年會有冬季、夏季頒表。我都知道,你不要,因為我現在20分鐘我們就開一個研討會了啦。我今天是問一個態度,你有沒有要調整?對,這個部分我們來做調整。我也會跟桃集公司大家來做討論。怎麼樣再更優化,像委員所說的,如果有些參數的調整。部長,那你先給我們一個書面。"},{"start":17473.42,"end":17497.893,"text":"請他給我兩個禮拜給個書面檢討報告好不好?兩個禮拜那如果說到時候可以調整的話就總經理今天的態度在國會這樣一副吊噹噹的這種態度你怎麼處理?沒有啊他沒有要處理的意思啊他就是說這是因為什麼原因什麼原因什麼原因才造成這個狀況啊所以很應該啊人少沒進來無所謂啊態度就這樣啊只是想要更詳細的跟委員說明但是他有講到要滾動檢討"},{"start":17499.154,"end":17517.787,"text":"所以這個部分確實我們會做那兩個禮拜之內跟委員兩個禮拜之內一個完整要我們再來討論因為這個要講十幾分鐘啊這不可能三分鐘四分鐘講完我今天只要一個態度而已啊然後第二個就是現在很多旅館在反映喔因為今年明年1月1號開始準備要推一次性的備品了嘛對"},{"start":17518.487,"end":17541.872,"text":"就是要廢除一律性備品那現在還有人在講說未來有可能連瓶裝水都要求旅館不要提供這個是環境部環境部我知道因為這也是國際趨勢因為現在整個國際都在推ESG這我都了解但問題是現在網路上還有一般的民眾現在已經有個想法以為好像是只有國內的旅館是這樣子推甚至有人講說那這樣對國旅會雪上加霜"},{"start":17542.412,"end":17545.373,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加觀光品質並增加"},{"start":17567.017,"end":17584.535,"text":"但是你不能讓這種大家的輿論發酵好像是欸國內的旅館在找大家的麻煩其實這個對我們的國旅的發展也不利我現在只是說希望說觀光署可不可以訂一個宣傳的計畫就是跟國人講清楚當然你可以跟環境部要點錢啊或配合他們一起做宣傳"},{"start":17586.036,"end":17586.477,"text":"第三個問題,"},{"start":17601.96,"end":17619.582,"text":"以前在馬政府時代有一個觀光發展推動委員會我們簡稱叫政觀推不想知道嗎?我知道當時這個政觀推其實扮演了非常關鍵的推廣觀光的一個角色因為當時馬政府是想說我們用觀光立國希望能夠賺觀光外匯"},{"start":17622.154,"end":17641.279,"text":"當時因為很多部會他訂定策略之後跨部會的協調然後執行其實解決了很多問題比如說你可以直接在這個會上面要求勞動部解決一些勞力的問題你可以要求財政部針對通關的問題做更簡便你可以請其他的部會農業部看怎麼做農業觀光體育部可以做體育觀光"},{"start":17642.259,"end":17653.66,"text":"可是我覺得非常可惜就是這個觀光推就是觀光發展推動委員會在2021年因為疫情的關係就已經被取消了取消以後並沒有隨之而來的替代的跨部會的機制"},{"start":17654.4,"end":17675.035,"text":"那個時候好像當時的行政院是講說不然就由交通部或觀光署來協調可是我也知道部長你的困難度啊你是交通部長你能夠去協調速發部什麼事嗎他會理你嗎你可以協調遼東部做什麼事嗎你還是需要有更高位階的人來做一個協調跟推動而且很多時候是你上位者的思維跟部長思維不會一樣嘛"},{"start":17675.876,"end":17698.01,"text":"所以像類似這樣的一個觀光發展推動委員會其實大家希望可以再恢復至少要行政院長成績院長太忙的話副院長可以召開保委我們下個月副院長就會來召開這樣子的會議所以有恢復是不是對我們下個月另外成立另外成立一個叫什麼會另外成立一個也是同樣的叫觀光觀光諮詢會議觀光推廣諮詢會議"},{"start":17700.892,"end":17721.147,"text":"觀光推廣諮詢會議幾個月開一次?我們原則上是三個月開一次那因為組成這個委員的民間代表有21席那現在才確認嘛然後我們改變過去的做法就是大家發言以後再來組成題目那我們現在由這些委員提的意見"},{"start":17722.208,"end":17743.622,"text":"然後我們再分類那各部會已經有表示意見我們已經把它重新重整了大概就像部長講的下個月下個月召開趙建仁是誰?副院長目前是副院長就副院長陳琦就對了目前是副院長然後三個月會開一次原則上三個月會開一次那會請各部會地方政府一起來參加還有業者是不是對地方政府沒有地方政府沒有為什麼地方政府不一起召來"},{"start":17744.162,"end":17765.334,"text":"他是中央跟這個業界的一個因為之前的那個政官推是地方政府也可以參與嘛你們觀光署推觀光不可能把地方政府排除在外因為我們自己我們有觀光的22個觀光的局處首長我們是另外再開一個會然後再還有另外一個會就不能我都覺得如果一個會大家整合整合一起"},{"start":17766.254,"end":17777.302,"text":"因為怕議題為了提高那個議程的這個推動,所以我們有很多是把它用分會的方式,然後再提到大會來。好,謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝葉委員。"},{"start":17788.476,"end":17790.177,"text":"羅明財委員、蘇清泉委員、羅志強委員、王美惠委員、黃國昌委員、"},{"start":17820.697,"end":17842.746,"text":"好,今天登記質詢委員均與發言完畢做一下決議一、報告局行答完畢第二、委員黃健豪、羅志強所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報第三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆的部分請交通部"},{"start":17844.261,"end":17870.77,"text":"還有中華郵政,如果有的話,儘速以書面答覆。第四、觀光署及所屬單位預算、觀光發展基金非營業預算、中華郵政營業預算等三項預算案均另擇其進行處理。委員預算提案於12月25日星期三中午12點截止收件。現在休息,明天上午繼續開會。謝謝。"},{"start":17886.782,"end":17889.667,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部觀光品質並增加觀光品質。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}