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本席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢許文豪院長好 辛苦了一整天不會不會 謝謝今天本席有三十分鐘有一些有關"},{"start":33.499,"end":51.251,"text":"整個政府就中央的整個對國家的治理的有些問題本席想特別提出來尤其是賴總統就職以來賴卓體制也已經有一年半的時間了本席首先想請教院長就是說"},{"start":52.091,"end":68.557,"text":"一個國家的治理或是企業的管理我們對於所有的這個要實施的政策或是我們要落實執行的不外乎是時間效益成本都要兼顧您認同嗎"},{"start":70.652,"end":87.259,"text":"是 就管理上需要這樣來執行等於說包含我們花了很多的預算 很多的錢應該會在意它的效益嘛 對不對是嘛所以本席首先要先來請教就是說我們現在面對美國關稅的衝擊"},{"start":89.58,"end":105.696,"text":"那我們有在這個特別預算有特別編列了780億對不對要來這個產業的支持對 就支持產業然後150億要這個安定就業嘛那有關支持產業的本席從"},{"start":107.638,"end":130.374,"text":"我們這個川普開始有關稅的這樣的一個變化政策變化以來呢我們就一直在問請問受關稅衝擊的行業清單我們政府現在到底有沒有我們在當初四月之前我們就一直做低推估 中推估 高推估各個影響的層面都有推估出來那目前我們認為像這個"},{"start":133.434,"end":157.214,"text":"手工具機還有一些交通的零組件你們的行業清單有沒有現在整個我們中央政府有掌握主要因為二產業項目高科技產業因為沒有在對的關稅裡面所以大部分是傳統產業傳統產業也有分就是說如果我們的對手剛好是遇到日本跟韓國會比較辛苦"},{"start":158.395,"end":185.958,"text":"對 所以本席先但是跟委員報告如果我們的對手剛好是中國的話那就比較不會還有一些競爭力但是也一樣要面對這個關稅的支付所以他跟他客戶之間怎麼樣去做拆帳那所以已經有一些清單在手上我們要補助協助的我們也做了很多的座談會對 座談會 那本席想請教"},{"start":186.718,"end":205.126,"text":"我們這些清單有那麼多的產業那麼多的廠商那你的標準你大概有哪些標準出口佔比是一個因素嗎只要他可以證明他有直接或間接出口美國然後他的業績衰退10%"},{"start":207.121,"end":234.249,"text":"這些是你們的一個標準 對毛利跌幅有沒有考慮那個都不需要 不需要你只要有關稅傳導率有沒有有沒有需要考慮你只要有確認就是說你是有蘇美的時機或間接也可以你是透過代理商出口那你只要你的實際的業績衰退了10%就可以就可以來申請申請了以後協助這些廠商怎麼樣"},{"start":235.699,"end":262.729,"text":"他有分嘛比如說金融的協助那這個在這個情況之下你就可以新的貸款那我們有信保來支持你然後還有這個利息的減免會公開這個清單跟標準當然標準您剛剛有講一些整個的清單會公佈嗎事實上是所有的製造業你只要符合了這個10%的衰退基本上都可以來申請只要來申請你們就給他過"},{"start":268.257,"end":282.976,"text":"我們會有公開的廠商名單跟金額嗎我們可以看得到嗎可能我們可能還要這個因為這個因為廠商他申請這個他不一定希望人家知道"},{"start":285.952,"end":296.407,"text":"那再來我們對於一些這個支持就業我們也有安排了對於一些可能關閉的廠商他們是不是對他們的員工開課"},{"start":297.851,"end":324.009,"text":"他現在是主要是這個所謂的應該不叫無薪假叫這個減班休息有一些補貼之外還有一些訓練課程再充電計畫再充電計畫跟委員說明我們其實現在有這個給勞工的再充電機會就是減班休息的勞工那他如果參與再充電的計畫我們不只那個課程是免費的甚至我們會給他餐訓津貼每個小時190塊"},{"start":326.391,"end":342.901,"text":"你這課程誰來開課企業可以開我們地方的分屬可以開都可以甚至地方政府也可以開現在重點就是我們大家在想你企業來開那如果他本身就是可能要關閉的他可能要外移的廠商他來開課請問對我們的勞工有幫助嗎"},{"start":347.366,"end":359.871,"text":"你這個開課的KPI或者是你的標準在哪裡其實有很多的企業他只是暫時性的現在接單比較有挑戰其實他一段時間以後他是會恢復而且可能還是會未來的訂單還是很有機會的"},{"start":363.092,"end":379.915,"text":"所以他可以趁這個時間他可以對他內部的員工來辦訓所以企業如果他們要開課的話我們也會補助這個企業來辦訓企業會得到我們的補貼那參訓的勞工我們也會給他參訓津貼每個小時190塊都會有我們都會支持他們"},{"start":380.376,"end":402.208,"text":"所以本席的問題是對有可能他只是暫時那如果他未來是要等於說可能會關閉的你怎麼辦你這些人他原本就是這個行業你又給他上這個行業的課你沒有幫助他轉型啊呃我們也有地方分署也有開課地方分署也有辦訊課地方分署他開課他是依據什麼來開課"},{"start":404.517,"end":430.437,"text":"就是我們原本在我們勞動力發展署下各個分署就有相關的課程本來就可以來上而且可以是用線上的方式來上但是這個開課是不是能夠幫助他們轉型我們一再強調你這個錢下去150億你是打水漂這個半年用完就沒了還是他可以轉型是依照勞工的需求跟企業的需求來開課來辦訓"},{"start":434.745,"end":453.272,"text":"一句他的需求那半年後半年後你有沒有一個檢視的指標因為他上完課然後呢請問他的留任率多少你們有沒有檢視以及他的到職率或是他的轉職率不用看委員他本來就在職他本來就在職"},{"start":457.259,"end":484.83,"text":"這些勞工現在減班休息並不是真的失業他現在其實還是受聘於那個企業所以您沒有聽懂您說的情況是其中一種但是所以現在我們的中央政府就是假設所有他都是暫時的那如果半年後整個關稅各方面的影響我們發現有一些產業他這個關閉活不下去那這些勞工呢"},{"start":485.677,"end":501.137,"text":"跟委員說明我們現在還有提出一個是叫做勞工就業通的計畫這個計畫是針對如果真的在這段過程裡面真的不幸被解雇或失業的勞工我們來協助他轉職包括給他到時候才協助嗎沒有現在我們已經發布了"},{"start":502.398,"end":527.078,"text":"所以如果這個勞工現在真的因為關稅的因素而被解雇而失業的話我們現在在上週我們就已經發布了這個計畫可以用我們勞工就業通的計畫來協助他轉職對 OK這個轉職你有沒有對接的政策產業的清單當然我們希望他我們當然比較希望優先可以協助他比方說轉往一些比較缺工的產業本席花了一些時間問這些問題主要"},{"start":529.219,"end":549.978,"text":"我就是要跟這個卓院長來提醒就是我們的效益這個780億的支持產業跟這個對支持產業還有安定就業150億我們不希望將近1000億未來就是隨著時間過去錢只是砸下去灑了錢結果"},{"start":550.819,"end":568.495,"text":"它的成效我們看不到所以我剛剛問了一下一起來監督這個工作學員對課程的整個滿意度還有我們在做這樣計畫的時候你沒有一個執行的一個績效考核或者是一個評估都完全沒有"},{"start":568.795,"end":594.375,"text":"我們當然會來評估這個等到半年後再下一次的總諮詢甚至一年後才發現問題的時候這些錢都已經撒下去特別預算通過之後我們才會全面開始執行那些準備工作的時候對 準備工作的時候我們正式的規劃應該就有一個減班休息是希望他暫時維持在原來的工作地點只是減班休息我們給他再充電那麼如果真的發生了比較大的影響他必須要轉職的話"},{"start":595.396,"end":613.702,"text":"他也推出了這種升級轉型的一個各種的補助都有所以是很多的面向同時在進行因為剛好我們經濟部長跟我們勞動部長都在我們的整個產業它是不是要跟整個勞工教育訓練的轉型整個要掛鉤在一起當然"},{"start":614.323,"end":626.164,"text":"才可以所以現在我們整個的執行是有這樣就是說他如果還沒有到這個減班休息的情況之下我們也有提供補助給企業對他的員工的訓練尤其是AI上的訓練"},{"start":627.727,"end":654,"text":"他可以去上課而且上課以後呢我們也會檢定說他可不可以應用在百工百業就是他比如說工具機他可不可以真的導入到他的製程的過程當中剛剛工部長有特別講所以對於這些產業是有一些對接的政策性產業大概哪些產業您剛剛講AI產業工具機還有AI是導入所有的這些包括傳統性產業"},{"start":655.36,"end":677.454,"text":"把AI導入那還有呢 你政策性產業還有哪些因為你整個你要去培訓他們轉職各方面你政策性產業現在主要因為對等關稅的關係主要還是放在比較所謂的傳統性產業放在政策上的產業還有中小微這兩大部分"},{"start":681.907,"end":687.112,"text":"中小微企業還有這個所謂的傳統性產業現在主要是這兩塊因為他們對受到了對等關稅的影響比較大所以我們希望我們的這些納稅人的錢"},{"start":698.763,"end":719.609,"text":"能夠真正用在我們現在不管我們的產業我們的勞工我們不是只有止血我們可以幫他們造血然後在未來我們可以能夠面對整個國際的衝擊我們可以衝擊到影響到能夠是最小的是 當然 謝謝那接著本席要接著再請教這個院長"},{"start":721.328,"end":743.288,"text":"美方要求開放稻米零關稅的話這個會直接打擊我國糧食安全所以我們全國人民想要知道政府有沒有設定最低的保護底線稻米是否被列入非談判項目以及我們糧食的自給率政府有沒有訂定底線"},{"start":744.611,"end":760.257,"text":"在我們談判的原則當中糧食安全跟國人健康是其中兩項重要的原則是政府院長率領我們的底線是什麼就是這兩項原則其他當然糧食安全的底線是我們稻米我們"},{"start":761.624,"end":780.235,"text":"等於是不是能夠列入非談判項目因為雙方談判雖然已經完成了諸多的技術性磋商但最後總結會議還沒有完成所以最後的協議還沒有達成在之前各有提出但是都沒有做任何實際上的承諾我們等待最後的承諾"},{"start":781.255,"end":806.451,"text":"但是我相信院長您心裡大概有譜未來可能會怎麼樣因為在這過程雖然沒有公布你一提農業部長就站在旁邊他就知道他的責任有多重大在過程當中農業部一直是很重要的一個我們談判所要保護國人糧食安全跟這個國人健康的一個工作那請問豆米算是戰備物資吧應該算吧那我們最低存量應該是多少我們政府現在"},{"start":807.672,"end":829.556,"text":"我跟委員報告就是依據我們現在的規定我們現在的規定是除成三個月三個月內30萬噸但是我們現在每一年大概可以到120萬噸所以我們現在稻米的糧食自給率是超過百分之百"},{"start":833.018,"end":856.729,"text":"我們在整個談判那什麼時候會提出對農產品入超衝擊的報告跟因應對策我跟委員報告就是說當我們在跟美國做相關的談判的過程中其實我們也對每一個產業做了相關的可能的衝擊分析但是相關的談判過程中因為還在執行還在談判過程中那最後的結果還不確定但是"},{"start":858.55,"end":873.42,"text":"就農業的角度來講確保糧食安全維持產業的穩定性跟我們農民的收入是我們最大的一個原則我們會捍衛這樣的一個用這樣的原則在跟美國一直是用這樣的原則跟美國在處理"},{"start":873.86,"end":901.188,"text":"好 我們希望我們政府是準備好的因為講到農民本席也要再特別講就是說我們的一些農民他在耕作各種的農作物的時候常常有時候碰到盛產譬如說鳳梨香蕉盛產我們政府就來收購凍存補貼為什麼我們不從一種棄作品種以及"},{"start":902.309,"end":909.785,"text":"總量管制整個的掌握來著手常常都是常常救急常常的就是去做這個補貼"},{"start":912.429,"end":940.389,"text":"那這樣我們好幾種農產品常常發生這種事情現在農業部有沒有做整個總量管制的整個掌控我跟委員報告您講得非常對就是說我們都是小農都是小面積的所以我們現在就是在鼓勵相關的集團栽培然後做計劃性的生產然後特別是透過部分的農企業跟農民做契作這樣關係因為有契作的話你的目標就會非常穩定但我的問題是"},{"start":941.81,"end":962.413,"text":"我們的生產常常脫序這個是政府的責任我們怎麼樣掌握不要常常有這種情況對 另外現在我們也在大概明年初就會去開始做公告就是我們現在的種植登記其實我們透過現在所有的申請其實我們已經掌握大概六成到八成的整個種植的作用現在陸續有掌握"},{"start":962.953,"end":985.45,"text":"包括規劃跟你們的指導你們都可以來落實所以我們現在透過未來可能透過種植登記加上集團栽培加上企作去讓我們的農產品更有次序性的去做計劃性生產我們希望之後不要再看到農民在不知情的情況下整個又太過於量產跟盛產"},{"start":986.491,"end":1012.214,"text":"不過我要跟委員說明一下因為很多露天週五還是面對的氣候變遷這個極端天候的挑戰所以有時候因為天候的關係造成短時間之內的物價波動是不可避免的但是我們會這個沒關係有些動態性的我想農業部這裡能夠做好整個的預警還有協助輔導各方面我想這樣就很好"},{"start":1012.674,"end":1033.998,"text":"是好不好好接著院長本席想接著來請教有關我們國家的兒童還有青少年的問題我想請教院長孩子們在教室裡有沒有權利呼吸新鮮乾淨的空氣他們有沒有權利"},{"start":1035.114,"end":1046.081,"text":"任何一個人在任何地方應該要這樣那您有瞭解我們現在台灣的兒童青少年他們"},{"start":1047.15,"end":1065.87,"text":"在这个呼吸新鲜空气这一块是没有人在管他们的三不管地带您知道吗对台湾整个空气品质是每一天都随时在监控的那请问室内空气品质管理法教育部有没有列为主管单位院长我请教你"},{"start":1066.604,"end":1076.399,"text":"有沒有我們是環境部環境部不是主管單位什麼環境部那孩子的這個呼吸乾淨的空氣的這個權責在哪"},{"start":1078.844,"end":1102.086,"text":"我們環境部目前 報告委員我們今年針對22個重點的工業區的旁邊的學校我們開始進行監測就是22個是常常被抓的 排放特別多的我們會特別來保護對 所以這就是問題了院長 本席請教你空屋治理難道不應該納入學校衛生法嗎"},{"start":1103.084,"end":1120.636,"text":"空污治理不會只局限在學校一個單位裡面它一定是整個我的意思說學校衛生法裡面要不要有空污治理這一塊學校它一個單位裡面不可能自己空氣好外面空氣不好也不可能外面空氣不好裡面只有學校是好剛剛部長講的你這樣但是你現在"},{"start":1125.749,"end":1134.843,"text":"院長小孩子的肺還沒有發育完全那你那個空汙的標準跟成人一樣你現在沒有小孩子的"},{"start":1136.57,"end":1156.343,"text":"所以你現在在學校附近的這個你說工業區怎麼樣那都是成人的標準那我問你小孩子誰來照顧誰來管誰來關心他們我們的孩子氣喘各方面呼吸系統的這個問題因為這個環境的變遷我想院長還有部長也清楚所以那現在孩子的這個怎麼辦"},{"start":1156.923,"end":1158.384,"text":"尤其在校園校園的空氣品質的這種監控"},{"start":1174.807,"end":1191.618,"text":"我想教育部長不會不關心吧我們孩子都在他一到五一天有八小時在學校特別是國小國中國小國中的孩子這一塊你現在是個漏洞"},{"start":1192.378,"end":1215.427,"text":"本席要特別講韓國他們非常重視其實世界各國都很重視我特別舉韓國韓國的例子他們就是把空污防治寫進法律等於是他們由對各級學校他們把空氣污染的治理納入學校衛生法這就是因為為什麼本席要特別提出來"},{"start":1216.167,"end":1232.576,"text":"他從法律層面建立了校園的空品監測以及改善的一個法理的基礎可是我們沒有好我們的做法教育部長本席請你一定要還有這個卓院長要請你們知道我現在要講一個現象"},{"start":1233.669,"end":1250.714,"text":"我們如果在學校突然發現空氣真的很有問題我們的做法是把戶外活動從課表裡面刪掉人家是把空污房子寫進法律"},{"start":1251.674,"end":1277.76,"text":"所以現在有校園污染通報的防護措施韓國他們是有制度有預算有標準的在他們在保護孩童的肺我們的政府是在限制我們孩子的腿就是不一樣的做法我們現在有校園污染的防治措施現在中小學我們事實上以中山大學王家村PM2.5研究中心那是高校深耕特別"},{"start":1278.34,"end":1305.569,"text":"支持的一個特殊靈異研究中心帶著中小學在發展研究做PM2.5許多的這些學校校園空屋的空氣的監控包括許多教學上的一些協助我們也培養了非常多的一些種子老師我想在這一個部分你培養種子老師但是現在空屋的房子"},{"start":1306.309,"end":1321.138,"text":"你教育部完全沒有在管我們的整個學校有通報系統那現在環境部他怎麼協助學校包委員我們有這個教育部環境部還有國科會還有經濟部一起合作我們四個部會針對兒少的呼吸權"},{"start":1321.878,"end":1337.954,"text":"特別是我們體檢工業區還有增加通報機制還有室內的空氣品質的污染我們的確跨部會在做可是本席剛剛提出來你看兒童他這個空污的標準到現在兒童沒有特別的啊"},{"start":1338.294,"end":1357.312,"text":"有報委員第一個你說的韓國全國PM2.5平均是20我們台灣是12.8所以韓國的問題比我們嚴重很多我們當然可以再改進第二個我們現在是跨部會但是現在就是我們孩子的標準我們孩子的標準沒有人在關心啊你要有孩子的標準啊就是因為教育單位沒有權責"},{"start":1364.398,"end":1380.827,"text":"現在納進去了 我想感謝委員提醒但是他確實是一個跨部會在合作的對兒童的一個身心的一個健康我想當然教育部是非常關心的包委我們不能夠隨隨便便提一個標準所以我目前的確要跟最保持要顧"},{"start":1381.647,"end":1406.585,"text":"但是因為學童的權益我希望教育部一定要有權責那當然專業的方面請環境部甚至衛福部剛剛有講我們本來就應該跨部會整合好嗎好OK那接著本席要再繼續請教我們卓院長那我們要特別就這個托育還有幼兒園的這個福利政策"},{"start":1408.026,"end":1425.316,"text":"本席特别这边有一个表就是我们现在0到6岁的学童我们中央政府对0到6岁的学童的这种照顾我们特别看0到2岁还有2岁以上2到6岁"},{"start":1427.837,"end":1455.244,"text":"看到這個家長的負擔本席最主要要講的就是家長的負擔這個在過去本席總質詢的時候也有特別跟卓院長有特別建議過我不知道回去有沒有相關單位大家有沒有再去研擬我們能不能再更加的來照顧因為少子化一直以來的這個國安危機都沒有解除過那很大的原因就是年輕的家長"},{"start":1456.024,"end":1476.384,"text":"他们0到6岁的孩子他们的负担非常的重所以我们看到0到2岁如果你念这个准公共的话你这个家长的负担一个就光一个我们都是看第一个那你不是6000 9000那如果你要念私立又更多1万多每个月"},{"start":1477.338,"end":1505.114,"text":"那兩歲以上那當然能夠念這個公立的或準公共的我們一千兩千三千但如果你要念私立的兩萬所以本席在這裡要再次的請命卓院長我們應該是可以你國安在其他方面的國安你編很多但是我們這個孩子的教育我們希望可以譬如說我們公立的我們就讓他免費"},{"start":1506.237,"end":1524.51,"text":"我們公立的我們就讓他免費然後念私立的我們來補貼補貼他一萬五院長這個部分可不可以去研擬然後來為我們很多的年輕人還有很多未來我們希望我們的這個少子化的情況他能夠反轉"},{"start":1526.054,"end":1546.382,"text":"這個也是我們長年來一直努力的方向我們對0到6歲國家一起養的這樣的一個工程在明年的中央政府總預算一共編列了1106億也相當的不少那也是逐年的增加對 我們就是說對家長的負擔因為你一次一點給那些家長看了"},{"start":1547.282,"end":1575.157,"text":"還是覺得我不一定能負擔所以很多年輕人可能就不生但是現在如果公立的你都給他免費而且我也必須肯定我們現在政府在公立準公共化非營利這一塊其實很努力在做所以讓年輕的家長安心公立的我們就給他免費然後私立的謝謝院長的善意的回應私立的我們補貼多一點"},{"start":1577.599,"end":1593.83,"text":"讓他們的負擔再少一點這樣我們希望這種少子化的因素至少在0到6歲他這個孩子整個的這種托育還有幼兒園的部分他們就0到6歲那6年他們就會比較放心"},{"start":1594.397,"end":1619.313,"text":"是在育兒的政策的需求而且年輕父母的需要以及對家庭的支出我們一定往這個方向去處理明年的預算我請委員先支持1106億就在這裡我們未來會支持而且現在公立的各個機構量還要增加公立還不夠那1106億你們這個研擬一下公立就先給他免費那私立我們希望補助再多一點"},{"start":1620.333,"end":1646.316,"text":"我們朝這個方向想明年我們會踏出一大步的明年踏出一大步就是這個數字應該都是明年我們要做的第二胎還有家的我知道 第二胎還有家謝謝委員的支持 謝謝我們希望一起來努力讓年輕人感生而且讓我們的未來國家的幼苗能夠得到很好的教育再來本席要請教院長"},{"start":1648.476,"end":1671.332,"text":"院長這個水啊 水權啊就是喝這個能夠有安全充足可負擔的自來水這個應該是最基本的人權吧院長您認同吧這也是一個文明社會的基本條件嘛那但是我們現在還有100萬人沒有自來水喝"},{"start":1672.754,"end":1691.773,"text":"這一個部分本席要在這裡特別請命因為按照現在整個長久以來的這種進行的方式要讓所有的國人特別是那些到現在還無自來水的地區的民眾有自來水喝要248年"},{"start":1693.925,"end":1711.788,"text":"所以這一塊能不能加緊腳步例如我們是不是可以來考慮自來水普及化加速執行的特種基金可以考慮這樣嗎因為248年你我都等不到但是現在很多人"},{"start":1712.569,"end":1724.974,"text":"我們想像不到現在所還沒有的地方都是一些工程在施工上相當的困難的不只這樣很多是根本還乏人問津喔院長這個在我的選區很多人的選區都是如此我們有編了一個計畫嘛"},{"start":1728.895,"end":1752.919,"text":"因為我們如果是非常的在山里的偏鄉的話我們至少可以用所謂的簡易自來水但是簡易自來水還是安全的那本席直接講院長您剛剛說有的是工程延宕的這一塊當然是另一個我們要討論的但是還有很多沒有的他可能真的按照這個經費這樣子編列要200多年這個部分來想個辦法"},{"start":1758.02,"end":1785.998,"text":"我們這一期的工作 從114年到118年是106億的經費 但他也只能接6萬對呀 106億太少了 我們是不是可以有能不能為了這個來做特種機因為那些人其實他跟我們一樣都是中華民國國民但是他家的水洗白襯衫越洗越黃 白襯衫變成黃襯衫還有他們家的水 但根本是不能喝的"},{"start":1786.823,"end":1795.175,"text":"他們很可憐啊沒有可以啦還有100萬人這個檢疫自來水還是可以喝不是檢疫自來水很多連檢疫自來水都沒有啊部長"},{"start":1797.001,"end":1821.469,"text":"還有很多現在本席說的100萬人是沒有的所以這一塊可能要請院長跟部長你們要更加的了解因為看來你們不知道現況他還有100萬人是沒有的喔連潔衣自來水都沒有政治上是已經有在執行114年到118年這等於是今年開始執行能不能加速弄一個特種基金來加速執行"},{"start":1821.869,"end":1821.889,"text":"好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":504,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（16時32分）謝謝韓院長，本席有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長好，辛苦了，一整天。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：今天本席有30分鐘，有一些有關整個政府，關於中央對於國家治理的一些問題，本席想特別提出來，尤其是賴總統就職以來，賴卓體制也已經有一年半的時間了。本席首先想請教院長，一個國家的治理或是企業的管理，我們對於所有要實施的政策或是要落實執行的，不外乎是時間、效益、成本都要兼顧，您認同嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，就管理上是需要這樣來執行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：等於包含我們花了很多的預算、很多的錢，應該會在意它的效益，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是嘛！所以本席首先要先請教，我們現在面對美國關稅的衝擊，我們有在特別預算特別編列了780億要支持產業，150億要安定就業，有關支持產業的部分，從川普關稅這樣的政策變化以來，我們就一直在問受關稅衝擊的行業清單，政府現在到底有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當初在4月之前就一直做低推估、中推估及高推估，各個影響的層面都有推估出來，目前我們認為像手工具機，還有一些交通的零組件……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，你們有沒有行業清單？"],["卓院長榮泰：有，請部長說明一下。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在中央政府有掌握嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：有，主要因為232項目的高科技產業沒有在對等關稅裡面，所以大部分是傳統產業，傳統產業也有分，如果我們的對手剛好是遇到日本和韓國就會比較辛苦，譬如工具機跟機械。但是跟委員報告，如果我們的對手剛好是中國的話，那就比較不會，我們還有一些競爭力，但是也一樣要面對關稅的支付，所以他跟他客戶之間怎麼樣去做拆帳。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以已經有一些清單在手上？"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們要補助、協助的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也做了很多的座談會、產業座談會。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，座談會。那本席想請教，我們這些清單裡面有那麼多的產業、那麼多的廠商，你的標準？"],["龔部長明鑫：關於標準，基本上……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你大概有哪些標準？出口占比是一個因素嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：只要他可以證明他有直接或間接出口美國，然後他的業績衰退10%，那就可以來申請。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這些是你們的一個標準？"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：毛利跌幅有沒有考慮？"],["龔部長明鑫：那個都不需要。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不需要？關稅傳導率有沒有需要？"],["龔部長明鑫：你只要有確認你是有輸美的實績，間接也可以，你是透過代理商出口，只要你實際的業績衰退10%就可以來申請。"],["徐委員欣瑩：申請了以後，協助這些廠商是怎麼樣？"],["龔部長明鑫：這個有分，比如說金融的協助。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對、對。"],["龔部長明鑫：在這個情況之下，你就可以有新的貸款，我們有信保來支持你，然後還有利息減免。"],["徐委員欣瑩：會公開這個清單跟標……標準的部分您剛剛有講一些，整個清單會公布嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：事實上是所有的製造業，你只要符合了這個10%的衰退，基本上都可以來申請。"],["徐委員欣瑩：只要來申請，你們就給他過？"],["卓院長榮泰：符合這樣的條件。"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對，就是要審查，金融協助是一定會協助的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們會有公開的廠商名單跟金額嗎？我們可以看得到嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們可能還要……因為廠商申請這個，不一定希望人家知道。"],["徐委員欣瑩：他們不希望？OK。","再來，我們對於一些支持就業也有安排了，對於一些可能關閉的廠商，他們是不是對他們的員工開課？院長。"],["龔部長明鑫：現在主要是所謂的……應該不叫無薪假。"],["卓院長榮泰：減班休息。"],["龔部長明鑫：叫做減班休息。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有一些補貼之外，還有一些訓練課程……"],["龔部長明鑫：還有一些訓練課程……"],["卓院長榮泰：再充電計畫。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，再充電計畫。"],["徐委員欣瑩：再充電計畫……"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們其實現在有給勞工的再充電機會，就是減班休息的勞工，他如果參與再充電計畫，不只那個課程是免費的，甚至我們會給他參訓津貼，每一個小時190塊。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你這個課程是誰來開課？"],["洪部長申翰：企業可以開，我們地方的分署可以開，甚至地方政府也可以開，都可以。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在重點就是我們大家在想，若由企業來開，如果他本身就是可能要關閉的、可能要外移的廠商，他來開課，請問對我們的勞工有幫助嗎？你這個開課的KPI或者是你的標準在哪裡？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實有很多的企業只是暫時性的現在接單比較有挑戰，其實一段時間以後，他就會恢復，而且可能未來的訂單還是很有機會的，所以他可以趁這個時間對他內部的員工來辦訓，因此企業如果他們要開課的話，我們也會補助這個企業來辦訓，企業會得到我們的補貼，參訓的勞工我們也會給他參訓津貼，每個小時190塊，都會有，我們都會支持他們。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以本席的問題是，有可能他只是暫時，但如果他未來等於說可能會關閉的，你要怎麼辦？這些人原本就是在這個行業，你又給他們上這個行業的課程，即你沒有幫助他轉型啊！"],["洪部長申翰：我們地方分署也有開課，地方分署也有辦訓……"],["徐委員欣瑩：地方分署開課是依據什麼來開課？"],["洪部長申翰：就是原本在我們勞動力發展署下各個分署就有相關的課程，本來就可以來上課，而且可以用線上的方式來上課。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊！但是這個開課是不是能夠幫助他們轉型？我們一再強調，你這個錢下去，150億，你是打水漂，半年用完就沒了，還是他可以轉型……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，這絕對不是打水漂，是依照勞工的需求跟企業的需求來開課、來辦訓。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是依據他的需求，那半年後你有沒有一個檢視的指標？他上完課了，然後呢？請問他的留任率多少？你們有沒有檢視？以及他的到職率或是他的轉職率，這不用看？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，他本來就在職。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這些勞工朋友們……"],["洪部長申翰：這些勞工現在減班休息，並不是真的失業，他現在其實還是受聘於那個企業，他還在職。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以您沒有聽懂，您說的情況是其中一種，所以現在我們的中央政府就是假設所有都是暫時的，如果半年後在整個關稅各方面的影響下，我們發現有一些產業關閉，活不下去，那這些勞工呢？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們現在還有提出一個「勞工就業通計畫」，這個計畫是針對如果在這段過程裡面，真的不幸被解僱或失業的勞工，我們來協助他轉職，包括給予就業的訓練……"],["徐委員欣瑩：到時候才協助嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：沒有，現在我們已經發布了。如果勞工真的因為關稅的因素被解僱而失業的話，可以用我們在上週就已經發布的勞工就業通的計畫來協助他轉職。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，OK，針對這個轉職有沒有對接的政策產業清單？或者是……"],["洪部長申翰：當然我們希望可以優先協助他轉往一些比較缺工的產業。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席花了一些時間問這些問題，主要就是要跟卓院長來提醒有關效益的部分，780億的支持產業跟安定就業的150億，我們不希望將近1,000億未來隨著時間過去，錢只是砸下去、撒了錢，結果它的成效我們看不到，所以我剛剛問了一下……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們一起來監督這個工作。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對、對。學員對整個課程的滿意度，還有在做這樣計畫的時候，沒有一個執行的績效考核或者是評估，完全都沒有。"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然會來評估，包括參訓以後的結果。"],["徐委員欣瑩：等到半年後在下一次的總質詢，甚至一年後，才發現問題的時候，這些錢都已經砸下去了。"],["卓院長榮泰：特別預算通過之後，我們才會全面開始執行，那些準備工作都做了……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對，準備工作的時候，應該就有政策的規劃……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以部長剛剛講的兩個重點，一個是減班休息，希望他暫時維持在原來的工作地點，只是減班休息，我們給他再充電。如果真的發生了比較大的影響，他必須要轉職的話，都有推出了升級轉型的各種補助，所以是很多的面向同時在進行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：剛好經濟部長跟勞動部長都在，整個產業是不是要跟整個勞工教育訓練的轉型，要掛勾在一起才可以？"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["龔部長明鑫：有、有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以現在整個的執行是有這樣。"],["龔部長明鑫：如果還沒有到減班休息的情況之下，我們也有提供補助給企業對員工的訓練，尤其是AI上的訓練，他可以去上課，而且上課以後我們也會檢定可不可以應用在百工百業上，比如工具機的部分，它可不可以真的導入到製程當中，提升它的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，剛剛龔部長有特別講，所以對於這些產業是有一些對接的政策性產業，大概是哪些產業？您剛剛講AI產業、工具機，還有什麼？"],["龔部長明鑫：AI是導入所有的產業，包括傳統性產業等百工百業。"],["徐委員欣瑩：把AI導入。"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有呢？政策性產業還有哪些？因為你要整個培訓他們轉職等各方面，你的政策性產業……"],["龔部長明鑫：因為對等關稅的關係，現在主要還是放在所謂的傳統性產業，放在政策上的產業還有中小微這兩大部分。"],["徐委員欣瑩：中小什麼？"],["龔部長明鑫：中小微企業。"],["徐委員欣瑩：中小微企業，還有一個……"],["龔部長明鑫：還有所謂的傳統性產業。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在主要是這兩塊。"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對，因為它們受到對等關稅的影響比較大。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，所以我們希望納稅人的錢，能夠真正用在不管我們的產業、我們的勞工，我們不是只有止血，我們可以幫他們造血，然後在未來能夠面對整個國際的衝擊，讓衝擊影響能夠是最小。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：謝謝。接著本席要再請教院長，美方要求開放稻米零關稅的話，這個會直接打擊我國糧食安全，所以全國人民想要知道政府有沒有設定最低的保護底線？稻米是否被列入非談判項目，以及我們糧食的自給率，政府有沒有訂定底線？"],["卓院長榮泰：在我們談判的原則當中，糧食安全跟國人健康是其中兩項重要的原則，鄭副院長率領……"],["徐委員欣瑩：是，我們的底線是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是這兩項原則，其他當然有……"],["徐委員欣瑩：糧食安全的底線是我們的稻米是不是能夠列入非談判項目？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為雙方談判雖然已經完成了諸多的技術性磋商，但最後總結會議還沒有完成，所以最後的協議還沒有達成，在之前……"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是我相信……"],["卓院長榮泰：各有提出，但是都沒有做任何實際上的承諾，我們等待最後的承諾。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是我相信院長您心裡大概有譜，未來可能會怎麼樣，因為在這過程，雖然沒有……"],["卓院長榮泰：您一提，農業部長就站來旁邊，他知道他的責任有多重大。在過程當中，我們談判所要保護國人糧食安全跟國人健康一直是農業部很重要的一個工作。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請問稻米算是戰備物資吧，應該算吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：稻米當然是我們最重要的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們現在政府最低存量應該是多少？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，就是依據我們現在的規定，戰備存糧是3個月。"],["徐委員欣瑩：可不可以先回答我們稻米的最低存量？"],["陳部長駿季：我們依現在的規定是儲存3個月，就是30萬噸。"],["徐委員欣瑩：3個月內30萬噸？"],["陳部長駿季：對，但是我們現在每一年大概可以到120萬噸，所以我們現在的稻米糧食自給率是超過百分之百。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是。我們整個談判，什麼時候會提出對農產品入超衝擊的報告跟因應對策？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，當我們在跟美國做相關的談判過程中，其實我們也對每一個產業做了相關可能的衝擊分析，但是相關的談判過程還在執行，還在談判過程中，最後的結果還不確定，但是誠如剛才院長講的，就農業的角度來講，確保糧食安全、維持產業的穩定性跟農民的收入是我們最大的一個原則，我們會捍衛，一直用這樣的原則跟美國處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們希望我們政府是準備好的。因為講到農民，本席也要再特別講，我們一些農民在耕作各種農作物的時候，有時候碰到盛產，譬如說鳳梨、香蕉盛產，我們政府就來收購、凍存、補貼，為什麼我們不從契作品種以及總量管制，整個掌握來著手？常常都是救急、做補貼，我們好幾種農產品常常發生這種事情，現在農業部有沒有做整個總量管制的掌控？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，您講得非常對，我們都是小農，都是小面積的，所以我們現在就是在鼓勵相關的集團栽培，然後做計畫性的生產，特別是透過部分的農企業跟農民做契作這樣的關係，因為有契作的話，目標就會非常穩定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但我的問題是生產常常脫序，這個是政府的責任，我們怎麼樣掌握，不要常常有這種情況？"],["陳部長駿季：對，另外我們大概明年初就會開始公告，就是現在的種植登記，其實我們透過現在所有的申請，已經掌握大概6成到8成整個種植的面向。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在陸續有掌握？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：包括規劃跟你們的指導，你們都可以來落實？"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以我們未來可能透過種植登記、加上集團栽培、加上契作，讓我們的農產品更有次序性地去做計畫性生產。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們希望之後不要再看到農民在不知情的情況下，整個又太過於量產跟盛產，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：不過我要跟委員先說明一下，因為很多露天作物還是面對著氣候變遷跟極端天候的挑戰，所以有時候因為天候的關係，造成短時間之內的物價波動是不可避免的，但是我們會增加……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，這個沒關係，有些動態性的，我想農業部這裡能夠做好整個的預警，還有協助、輔導各方面，我想這樣就很好，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。院長，本席想接著來請教有關我們國家的兒童，還有青少年的問題，我想請教院長，孩子們在教室裡有沒有權利呼吸新鮮乾淨的空氣，他們有沒有權利？"],["卓院長榮泰：任何一個人在任何地方都有權利。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有嘛，對不對？應該要這樣。您有了解我們現在臺灣的兒童、青少年在呼吸新鮮空氣這一塊，是沒有人在管他們的，是三不管地帶，您知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會啦！我們環境部對臺灣整個空氣品質，是每一天都隨時在監控的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，請問室內空氣品質管理法，有沒有列教育部為主管單位？院長，我請教你，有沒有？"],["彭部長啓明：我們是環境部，環境部是主管單位。"],["徐委員欣瑩：什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：環境部。"],["彭部長啓明：環境部。"],["徐委員欣瑩：孩子呼吸乾淨空氣的權責在哪？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們環境部今年有針對22個重點工業區旁邊的學校開始進行監測，就是針對22個常常被抓的、排放特別多的，我們會特別來保護兒童的空氣。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊！所以這就是問題了，院長，本席請教你，空污治理難道不應該納入學校衛生法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：空污治理不會只侷限在學校一個單位裡面，它一定是整個大環境。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我的意思是說學校衛生法裡面要不要有空污治理這一塊？"],["卓院長榮泰：學校一個單位裡面不可能自己空氣好，而外面空氣不好，也不可能外面空氣不好，只有學校裡面好，這是整個大環境的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：剛剛部長講的，但是你現在……院長，小孩子的肺還沒有發育完全，但他們的空污標準卻跟成人一樣，你們現在並沒有小孩子的喔！你現在說在學校附近的工業區要怎麼樣，那都是成人的標準，現在我就問你，小孩子誰來照顧、誰來管、誰來關心他們？我們的孩子因為環境變遷，氣喘各方面呼吸系統的問題很多，我想院長和部長也都清楚，所以現在孩子的這個部分要怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：我了解委員的重視，但是整個空氣品質怎麼監測……"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，委員說的是我們現在的空品的標準AQI是以大人為主，小孩目前是沒有，我們環境部……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，尤其在校園，校園空氣品質的監控，我想教育部長不會不關心吧？"],["彭部長啓明：會。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們的孩子週一到週五一天有8小時在學校，特別是國小、國中的孩子，這一塊現在是個漏洞，本席要特別講，韓國他們非常重視，其實世界各國都很重視，我特別舉韓國的例子，他們是把空污防制寫進法律，等於針對各級學校，他們把空氣污染的治理納入學校衛生法，這就是為什麼本席要特別提出來，他們從法律層面建立了校園空品監測以及改善的法理基礎，可是我們沒有。好，我們的作法，教育部長還有卓院長，本席請你們一定要知道，我現在要講一個現象，我們如果在學校突然發現空氣真的很有問題，我們的作法是把戶外活動從課表裡刪掉，人家是把空污防制寫進法律，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在有校園污染通報的防護措施。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我先講完，韓國他們是有制度、有預算、有標準，他們在保護孩童的肺，但我們的政府是在限制我們孩子的腿，這是不一樣的作法。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，不是，我請兩位部長答復一下，我們現在有校園污染的防制措施，還有通報系統。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，中小學部分，事實上，我們現在有以中山大學王家蓁教授主持的一個PM2.5研究中心，那是高教深耕特別支持的一個特色領域研究中心……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，沒有，部長，你現在講的話……"],["鄭部長英耀：帶著中小學發展很多……"],["徐委員欣瑩：教育部完全沒有在……"],["鄭部長英耀：作PM2.5許多學校的校園空氣監控，包括許多教學上的協助，我們也培養了非常多的種子老師，我想在這個部分，會後我再跟委員做……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們培養種子老師，但是現在空污的防制，教育部完全沒有在管整個學校……"],["卓院長榮泰：有通報系統，有通報系統。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在環境部是怎麼協助學校的？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，現在教育部、環境部、國科會還有經濟部4個部會針對兒少的呼吸權有一起合作，特別是我們體檢工業區，還有增加通報機制，針對室內空氣品質污染……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，要跨部會整合。"],["彭部長啓明：我們的確跨部會在做……"],["徐委員欣瑩：可是就像本席剛剛提出來的，兒童的空污標準，到現在都沒有特別的啊！"],["彭部長啓明：有，報告委員，第一，你說的韓國，韓國全國的PM2.5平均是20，我們臺灣是12.8，所以韓國的問題比我們嚴重很多，當然我們可以再改進。第二，我們現在是跨部會……"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是現在就是我們孩子的標準，你要……"],["彭部長啓明：孩子的標準，目前我們……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有人在關心啊！你要有孩子的標準啊！"],["彭部長啓明：對，我們現在要從……"],["徐委員欣瑩：就是因為教育單位沒有權責。"],["卓院長榮泰：有啦！有納進去。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在納進去了？"],["卓院長榮泰：本來就有。"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員提醒，但是它確實是一個跨部會合作的問題，對於兒童的身心健康，我想當然教育部是非常關心的。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們不能夠隨隨便便提一個標準，所以我們目前的確要從最早的資料庫……"],["徐委員欣瑩：當然沒有要隨隨便便，但是因為……"],["彭部長啓明：提出一個新的標準，針對小朋友的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：學童的權益我希望教育部一定要有權責，當然專業的方面請環境部，甚至衛福部，剛剛有講，我們本來就應該跨部會整合，好嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯，有、有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK。接著本席要再繼續請教我們卓院長，我們要特別就教托育，還有幼兒園的福利政策，本席這邊有一個表，我們現在0到6歲的學童，中央政府對0到6歲學童的這種照顧，我們特別看0到2歲，還有2歲以上，2到6歲，我們看到家長的負擔，本席最主要要講的就是家長的負擔，過去本席總質詢的時候，也有特別跟卓院長建議過，我不知道回去以後相關單位有沒有再去研擬，我們能不能再更加地來照顧？因為一直以來少子化的這個國安危機都沒有解除過，很大的原因就是年輕家長他們0到6歲的孩子，他們的負擔非常重，所以我們看到0到2歲，如果你唸準公共的話，家長的負擔，就光一個，我們都是看第一個，就是6,000、9,000，如果你要唸私立又更多，每個月要一萬多。那2歲以上，當然能夠唸公立的或準公共的，1,000、2,000、3,000，但如果你要唸私立的，2萬，所以本席在這裡要再次地請命，卓院長，我們應該是可以……國安，你在其他方面的國安，你編很多，但是我們孩子的教育，我們希望可以……譬如說公立的我們就讓它免費，然後唸私立的我們來補貼，補貼他1萬、1萬5,000。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，這個部分可不可以去研擬？然後來為我們很多的年輕人，還有很多未來……我們希望我們少子化的情況能夠反轉。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個也是我們長年來一直努力的方向。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們對0到6歲國家一起養這樣的一個工程，在明年的中央政府總預算，一共編列了1,106億，也相當的不少，那也是逐年的增加……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對，我們就是說……"],["卓院長榮泰：逐年的增加……"],["徐委員欣瑩：是不是你直接……"],["卓院長榮泰：對家長的負擔……"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為你一次一點給，那些家長看了，還是覺得他不一定能負擔……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會再加油。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以很多年輕人可能就不生，但是現在如果公立的，你都給它免費……而且我也必須肯定，我們現在政府在公立、準公共化、非營利這一塊，其實很努力在做，所以讓年輕的家長安心，公立的，我們就給它免費，然後私立的……謝謝、謝謝院長的善意回應，私立的我們補貼多一點，讓他們的負擔再少一點。我們希望這種少子化的因素，至少在0到6歲，孩子整個的這種托育，還有幼兒園的部分，0到6歲的那6年他們就會比較放心。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，在育兒的政策需求，而且年輕父母的需要，以及家庭的支出……"],["徐委員欣瑩：是不是可以再加強？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定往這個方向去處理，明年的預算我請委員先支持，1,106億就在這裡，我們未來也會支持，而且現在公立各個機構的量還要增加，公立的還不夠。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那1,106億你們研擬一下，公立就先給它免費，那私立我們希望補助再多一點，院長，朝這個方向，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：朝這個方向想，那明年我們會踏出一大步，明年踏出一大步就是這個數字應該都是明年我們要做的，那第二胎還有加的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我知道，第二胎還有加。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的支持，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：謝謝，我們希望一起來努力，讓年輕人敢生，而且讓我們未來國家的幼苗能夠得到很好的教育。","再來本席要請教院長水權，就是能夠喝安全、充足、可負擔的自來水，這個應該是最基本的人權吧！院長，您認同吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：這也是一個文明社會的基本條件。"],["徐委員欣瑩：基本條件嘛！但是我們現在還有100萬人沒有自來水喝。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這一個部分，本席要在這裡特別請命，因為按照現在整個長久以來的這種進行方式，特別是那些到現在還無自來水地區的民眾有自來水喝要248年，所以這一塊能不能加緊腳步？例如我們是不是可以考慮自來水普及化加速執行，成立加速執行的特種基金？可以考慮這樣嗎？因為要248年連你我都等不到，但是現在很多人……"],["卓院長榮泰：對，等不到。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們想像不到他喝的水就不是自來水。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在沒有自來水的地方都是工程在施工上相當困難的偏鄉、高山。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不只這樣，很多是根本還乏人問津。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個部分已經在經濟部、台水公司……"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，這個在我的選區和很多人的選區都是如此。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有編一個計畫，是有計畫的。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，如果是在山裡這種非常偏鄉的話，我們至少可以用所謂的簡易自來水。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，簡易自來水。"],["龔部長明鑫：但是簡易自來水還是安全的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席直接講，院長，您剛剛說有的是工程……工程延宕的這一塊當然是另一個我們要討論的，但是還有很多沒有的，它可能按照這個經費這樣子編列，真的要等兩百多年耶！這個部分要想個辦法來解決，加速！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們這一期的工作從114年到118年是編106億的經費，但它也只能接6萬噸……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊，106億太少了，我們是不是可以有……"],["卓院長榮泰：可見這個工程是非常困難的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：能不能為了這個來做特種基金？因為那些人其實跟我們一樣都是中華民國國民，但是用他家的水洗白襯衫會越洗越黃，白襯衫會變成黃襯衫；還有他們家的水根本是不能喝的，他們很可憐……"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有、沒有，可以啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有100萬人……"],["龔部長明鑫：簡易自來水還是可以喝，那沒有問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是簡易自來水的問題，很多人連簡易自來水都沒有啊！部長，現在還有很多人，就像本席說的有100萬人是沒有的，所以這一塊可能要請院長跟部長要更加地了解。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，我們再請經濟部加油。"],["徐委員欣瑩：看來你們不知道現況，還有100萬人是沒有的，連簡易自來水都沒有。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，政策上是已經有在執行，從114年到118年，這等於是從今年開始執行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：能不能加速？弄一個特種基金來加速執行？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：除了接管率之外，我們還有防漏也用了很大的經費，所以這整個都是在國家財政允許的情況下，我們會……"],["徐委員欣瑩：重點是248年太久了。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們儘量努力達到、增加多一點的戶數。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，要再加強、加速。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，登記第15位楊曜委員的質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":299,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","林倩綺","林國成","陳培瑜","劉書彬","王義川","徐富癸","林沛祥","黃秀芳","徐欣瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00009","1147801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00014"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}