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謝謝主席及各位先進我想請國防部長 衛福部的長官內政部長 警政署長 勞動部的長官一起好不好 張榮鑫署長我們時間非常短 所以一起上來我就一個一個先問"},{"start":28.351,"end":49.466,"text":"首先請教國防部的部長 顧部長這一次的特別預算大家都知道特別預算是針對什麼是針對美國的要扣台灣的關稅20%加N 就疊加關稅是舊產業跟他的勞工的部分還有經濟部長一起好不好經濟部長一起上來經濟部長一起上來好 謝謝那結果一下國防部編了"},{"start":58.274,"end":64.081,"text":"很多部位還有教育部長一起教育部長一起教育部長一起教育部正部長你請上來"},{"start":68.857,"end":91.888,"text":"原來是為了說救產業啦 救勞工啦結果各部位來搶錢啦 趁火打劫啊國防部最離譜啊他等於搶了最多啊國防部明年部的預算已經變了9000多億了創歷史新高要佔GDP的3.34%已經這麼高的比例結果現在又搶了1130億加起來的話 如果加明年度等於"},{"start":97.54,"end":107.209,"text":"明年我們審完以後 明年度預算加這一次的1130億就一兆630億GDP啊 佔GDP比重不是3.3%就3.7%啦 三點幾八了 官員報告 您可能有點誤解這個九千多億是含這一次的1132有嗎"},{"start":122.169,"end":137.796,"text":"就是九千四百多億我們分成一一三二分成兩年嘛一一五跟一一六在一一五裡面的部分大概三百多億是含在九千四百多億裡面你這個把它解釋清楚 可以然後就問你你是不是要逐年增加到五八"},{"start":139.614,"end":143.238,"text":"我想我們現在的目標就是說我們明年希望能夠達到剛剛委員提到的3.34後年內還在往後撐那我們後續還是依照整體的戰力建構的必要來逐步提升有可能達到川普政府要求我們的10%嗎"},{"start":160.289,"end":177.086,"text":"我想我們現在的目標應該還是從四個面向就是有關不對稱 防衛任性 貨幣戰力跟飲食黑車地帶我們會逐步的來依照我們的防衛作戰能力的需求來增加就問你這個事情 目標有沒有10%"},{"start":178.292,"end":205.02,"text":"我們現在就依照總統的這個承諾我們先達到3%那按照北約的這個核心的國防支出我們到達3.5%之後我們未來會再按照我們的整體防衛專案的這個需要我們逐步看看未來我們按照北約的核心國防支出還有韌性的這個相關的支出我問問題你都沒回答我什麼時候會到5%我就問你是不是第一個是不是逐年增加"},{"start":206.512,"end":218.087,"text":"總統有宣示是在2030年的時候到5%對嘛所以這個5%是什麼概念喔5%我們的排擠多少預算排擠多少預算好了 這個這個我們的國防還有那個經濟部長還經濟部長好了"},{"start":225.765,"end":227.207,"text":"你在當國會主委的時候你說如何讓美國再次偉大結果總統現在對外接受外國媒體的專訪對外講了要讓美國再次偉大怎麼會把台灣自我矮化成為美國第51週啊"},{"start":241.82,"end":245.442,"text":"我們這麼重要的自己的國家怎麼會讓他偉大這到底是什麼跟什麼最早是你講的啊我找你來是你講的你說讓美國更加偉大台美關係是互利雙贏美國好台灣也會好"},{"start":260.993,"end":272.486,"text":"所以美國要先偉大就對了所以我們是合作夥伴關係不是 你現在還強調美國美國再次偉大是你重要的市政互利雙贏我們彼此跟美國之間是互利雙贏的"},{"start":273.986,"end":292.475,"text":"你沒回答問題啊你是不是第一個你講的啊所有部長裡面是你第一個講的讓美國再次偉大不是立足台灣佈局全球台灣先偉大台灣先偉大嘛中華民國先偉大嘛怎麼美國先偉大可是你不要急著否認啊你就是因為講了讓美國再次偉大所以你當了部長啊否則沒有部長可以當啊"},{"start":297.418,"end":304.564,"text":"不要忘了 因為你是你去捧這個川普啊我們看教育部長啊教育部長啊我在總實行提過啊你這個產學合作啊 產學合作"},{"start":313.217,"end":314.338,"text":"產學合作 你為什麼要編一百億呢那廠商的需求比你高 對不對你編一百億 搶錢啦 趁火打劫阿產學合作就是產業跟你合作的我們現在因為過去我們的產業"},{"start":332.719,"end":334.721,"text":"在產協合作比較是單一的這些教授產業要多付錢呢我們現在是希望用產業引導他們去設立講座有一個類醫學院的概念"},{"start":349.315,"end":364.804,"text":"這個我覺得這不可思議委員如果不了解我可以私底下再跟委員報告但是我們真的因應產業上人才的需求我們真的很用心那你請他用書面回答好不好謝謝委員指正劉部長我就有三秒鐘 劉部長劉部長來來來 回答一下外面指控你的喝喝喝你是不是有喝喝喝 有沒有"},{"start":374.829,"end":387.275,"text":"報告委員 這件事情我已經在昨天表達過了我們就按照災害防救法裡面 如果有人變照或是有人沒有全文照登 那我們就移送給地檢署因為我現在跟您解釋 到時候還是會被斷章取義好 謝謝賴司保委員部長請回 接下來我們請郭國文委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":270,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時47分）好，謝謝主席及各位先進，我想請國防部長、衛福部的長官、內政部長、警政署長、勞動部的長官。"],["主席：請顧部長、衛福部呂次長、劉世芳部長、張榮興署長。"],["賴委員士葆：因為我們的時間非常短，所以請各位一起上來，我就一個一個問。首先請教國防部的顧部長，關於這一次的特別預算，大家都知道特別預算是針對什麼，就是針對美國要課臺灣的關稅20%加N也就是疊加關稅，就產業跟其勞工的部分……請經濟部長也一起上來。"],["主席：請龔部長。"],["賴委員士葆：結果現在國防部編了預算，還有很多部會……請教育部長也一起上來。"],["主席：教育部鄭部長請上來。"],["賴委員士葆：原來是為了救產業、救勞工，結果各部會來搶錢，趁火打劫，國防部最離譜，它等於搶得最多，國防部明年度的預算已經編了九千多億，創歷史新高，要占GDP的3.34%，已經有這麼高的比例，結果現在又搶了1,130億，在我們審完明年度的預算以後，加上這一次的1,130億，就是1兆630億，占GDP的比重就不是3.34%，而是3.7%了。你先聽我講完……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，您可能有一點誤解，這個九千多億是含這一次的1,132億。"],["賴委員士葆：有嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：關於九千四百多億，我們這1,132億是分成115跟116兩年，在115裡面的部分大概三百多億，這是含在九千四百多億裡面。"],["賴委員士葆：好，你就把它解釋清楚，可以，然後我就問你，你是不是要逐年增加到5%？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們現在的目標就是希望明年能夠達到剛剛委員提到的3.34%……"],["賴委員士葆：後年還要再增加？"],["顧部長立雄：我們後續還是依照我們整體戰力建構的必要來逐步提升。"],["賴委員士葆：有可能達到川普政府要求我們的10%嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們現在的目標應該還是從四個面向，就是不對稱作戰能力、防衛韌性、後備戰力提升以及應處灰色地帶威脅，我們會逐步依照我們防衛作戰能力的需求來增加。"],["賴委員士葆：目標有沒有10%？我是要問你這個事情，目標有沒有10%？"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在就是依照總統的承諾，我們先達到3%，按照北約的核心國防支出，我們在到達3.5%之後，未來會再按照我們整體防衛作戰能力的需要，逐步看看未來我們按照北約的核心國防支出還有與韌性相關的支出……"],["賴委員士葆：對於我問的問題，你都沒回答我，什麼時候會到5%？我就是問你，第一個，是不是逐年增加？"],["顧部長立雄：總統有宣示是在2030年的時候。"],["賴委員士葆：到5%？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["賴委員士葆：對嘛！所以這個5%是什麼概念？如果到5%，會排擠我們多少的預算？我要問經濟部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：你在當國發會主委的時候說如何讓美國再次偉大，結果總統現在接受外國媒體的專訪時對外講要讓美國再次偉大，怎麼會把臺灣自我矮化成為美國的第51州啊？我們自己的國家是這麼的重要，怎麼會說讓美國偉大？這到底是什麼跟什麼？最早是你講的啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：不是……"],["賴委員士葆：我找你上來就是因為這是你講的，你說讓美國更加偉大啊！所以賴總統也跟著你講。"],["龔部長明鑫：臺美關係是互利雙贏，美國好，臺灣也會好；臺灣好，美國也會好。"],["賴委員士葆：所以美國要先偉大就對了？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們是合作夥伴關係。"],["賴委員士葆：你現在還強調美國再次偉大是你重要的施政……"],["龔部長明鑫：互利雙贏，我們跟美國彼此之間是互利雙贏的。"],["賴委員士葆：你沒回答我的問題啊！你是第一個這樣講的，在所有的部長裡面，你是第一個講讓美國再次偉大，你是第一個講的。"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，立足臺灣、布局全球，是臺灣先偉大。"],["賴委員士葆：臺灣要先偉大嘛！中華民國先偉大嘛！怎麼是美國先偉大？可是你不要急著否認，你就是因為講了讓美國再次偉大，所以你當了部長，否則就沒有部長可以當啊！不要忘了這是因為你去捧川普。","我再問教育部長，我在總質詢提過產學合作，你為什麼要編100億呢？廠商的需求比你高，對不對？你編100億，這是搶錢、趁火打劫啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，委員是有誤解的……"],["賴委員士葆：產學合作就是產業跟你合作……"],["鄭部長英耀：因為過去我們的產業在產學合作比較是單一的教授……"],["賴委員士葆：產業要多付錢，怎麼是教育部付錢呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們現在是希望用產業支持去設立講座，有一個類e學院這樣的概念……"],["賴委員士葆：好，謝謝，因為我的時間到了，對於細節我就不跟你扯了，我覺得這不可思議，鄭部長，搶錢不是這樣講的……"],["鄭部長英耀：委員如果不了解，我可以私底下再跟委員報告，我們真的是因應產業上人才的需求，我們真的很用心。"],["賴委員士葆：產業可以付錢啊！"],["主席：賴委員，請他用書面回答好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的指正。"],["主席：用書面回答。"],["賴委員士葆：最後，劉部長，我只有3秒鐘。"],["主席：好，劉部長，3秒鐘。"],["賴委員士葆：劉部長，來，用3秒鐘回答一下，外面指控你「呵呵呵」，你是不是有「呵呵呵」？有沒有？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，這件事情我已經在昨天表達過了，我們就按照災害防救法裡面……"],["賴委員士葆：你有沒有「呵呵呵」？"],["劉部長世芳：如果有人變造或是有人沒有全文照登，我們就移送給地檢署，因為我現在跟你解釋，到時候還是會被斷章取義。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員，部長請回。","接下來請郭國文委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-20,15,35,19,22,26-1","speakers":["林思銘","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","陳亭妃","賴士葆","郭國文","蘇巧慧","賴惠員","柯志恩","萬美玲","葉元之","鄭正鈐","黃秀芳","黃珊珊","林宜瑾","李坤城","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","張宏陸","賴瑞隆","羅明才","郭昱晴","羅美玲","謝龍介","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張智倫","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","邱志偉","王美惠","蔡易餘","牛煦庭","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","張雅琳","林月琴","盧縣一","馬文君","沈伯洋","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","王正旭","林楚茵"],"page_start":71,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148101_00003","1148101_00004","1148101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」","agenda_id":"1148101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}