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林姓男子那剛開始林姓男子跟女童有一位女童那一度命危送到家戶病房"},{"start":46.618,"end":60.818,"text":"但是關鍵是什麼關鍵是這位秋信男子他其實在十年前的同一地點砍殺了四個人砍殺了四個人我想請教一下"},{"start":62.455,"end":76.147,"text":"林楠的女兒曾經針對這個事件向政府公開呼籲司法改革請問部長你有看到這位正義哥林姓楠子的女兒的呼籲嗎有掌握了解嗎"},{"start":77.855,"end":103.743,"text":"我想這個對這個曾毅哥的這個建立勇為深受衷傷我們是覺得我們祝他早日康復對這些的議局我們非常的一個欽佩那我想司法的改革是永不止盡的我這樣講啦我覺得部長你應該是沒看到因為你跟我一貫看到部長一樣你就是開始天空盤旋盤旋轉轉轉"},{"start":106.277,"end":135.473,"text":"林楠的女兒說她從來沒有想過新聞裡的隨機殺人事件會發生在自己家人身上她希望可以真正的落實實行因為像這種人吸毒二犯已經沒有教化可能放出來會再次對無辜的民眾安全造成威脅她要請政府跟執政黨正視並改善治安問題隨機砍人的事件頻傳這就是司法制度不健全跟社會安全網破裂所造成的後果"},{"start":136.577,"end":161.156,"text":"這一次是我爸爸 下一次又會是誰他認為 兇手在十年前第一次犯案如果就能夠重刑相待的話 今天悲劇就不會發生了他的父親也不會受到這麼嚴重的傷害他也講到 他的父親前胸後背各中一刀傷及內臟及橫膈膜 到現在還呼吸困難"},{"start":162.484,"end":185.831,"text":"這樣的痛苦 兇手永遠無法理解而身為家人又只能承受這種傷害跟陰影所以我要想請教部長你聽完這位鄭義哥女兒的陳述你有沒有什麼想法想跟她說 跟社會大眾說這個凶險的確是非常的"},{"start":187.523,"end":213.519,"text":"可惡他在隨即殺人而且光天化日之下那我想這個我們聽素材研辦這個已經受壓症辦了那我們對這個行為我們也是不能饒恕所以我們很有關心的像這種的我們修法在法治上我們也把這故意殺人或者殺人未遂能夠處十年以上有期徒刑的這些我們又判刑我們是"},{"start":214.767,"end":243.31,"text":"是在修法是不給他假釋的一個機會所以我們想讓這些在法治上能夠對這些行為謝謝部長我們國民黨立法院黨團也提出某些死刑就是某些那個無期徒刑的狀況非常嚴重的基本上是不得假釋所以這是我們的立場但我要跟部長說今天真的很多的一些受害者"},{"start":244.181,"end":271.429,"text":"有些受害者抱歉他沒辦法講話了為什麼為什麼有些受害者沒辦法講話了為什麼這個我想委員問到一個很核心的問題因為如果被害人因為生命是不可恢復出損害所以受害者他如果說喪失了生命我想這個我們一定在法律上我們絕對是我跟部長說這位秋男他已經不是第一次"},{"start":272.658,"end":300.128,"text":"10年前他跟鄰居吵架找不到鄰居拿剪刀就到超商攻擊路人跟警察他自己都承認啊他說他殺紅眼要把氣出掉那最後呢依殺人未遂罪判8年8個月定宴服安刑依然是治安的炸彈可是我要跟部長講一個更嚴重的事情我看了真的到現在我都覺得無法接受無法理解我想請教部長"},{"start":303.258,"end":329.935,"text":"詐欺集團關61個人嚴不嚴重嚴不嚴重這個當然是很可惡這應該是破天荒了吧我相信部長我們台灣的治安史上有被關過61個人嗎有嗎有被囚禁61個人嗎有這個歷史記錄過嗎沒有吧詐欺集團沒有空前嘛對不對令人髮指多髮指來"},{"start":333.552,"end":350.278,"text":"2022年的台版柬埔寨事件祖賢、蘭道、杜南等人在桃園淡水關61個人除了收身搶劫財務嘴巴上掃毛巾、上手銬綁束帶關進三坪大的小房間"},{"start":352.109,"end":377.135,"text":"讀打電擊未讀一人跳樓輕生一人休克死亡一人未讀自死通通被棄屍荒野騙取將近4億元的不法所得好來囉高等法院最後判處祖賢杜南等人無期徒刑我真的我覺得我今天是這些受害人我想請問部長"},{"start":379.039,"end":407.102,"text":"如果嚴重到關61個人虐殺3個人都只是無期徒刑我真不知道台灣怎麼還會有死刑呢還有死刑的存在嗎來囉 更重要的是什麼警方最近才發現今年8月今年8月才突然發現你知道死的不止3個人吧當年那個案子死不止3個人吧部長知道嗎"},{"start":409.805,"end":436.546,"text":"這個事情我覺得部長你一定要知道因為真的太嚴重了你都剛剛講是死上空前的台灣真的沒有發生過關這麼多人然後直接在裡面虐殺的事情你知道死了不只三個人嗎部長你知道還有哪些往生者嗎部長知道嗎你不知道嘛你不知道嘛 我告訴你台中警方破貨炸團"},{"start":438.351,"end":465.036,"text":"結果裡面有一個犯案小弟叫志白他說當年的台版柬埔災案死的不止三個還有第四個有一個38歲的零性男子第一天進去就被打死了一進去就被打死到現在我要告訴大家請問部長冰山一角你看三年前的案子只查出三個"},{"start":467.108,"end":489.626,"text":"受害的死者現在結果三年後發現原來不止三個人那我想請問你到底多少人到底關了多少人到底殺了多少人真的知道嗎真的知道嗎根本不知道今天我在這邊為什麼要講這些事情我剛才一而再再而三的講為什麼"},{"start":492.113,"end":517.455,"text":"我們現在大法官實質廢死判決已經生效了沒有啦 現在還是有判死刑的案件有告訴你 來 部長你到現在都不敢跟我講一句話來來來 我告訴你什麼叫實質判死什麼叫實質廢死實質廢死 請問你除了賴清德今天要平息民怨執行的一個死刑犯現在多少死刑犯還沒執行請問你啊 你告訴我啊已經兩年過了36"},{"start":520.356,"end":534.782,"text":"还有36个非常谢谢你你这么云淡风轻这么自信满满还有36个什么时候执行这部分这部分又要看什么形式诉讼程序在省非常上述看很多我知道"},{"start":536.195,"end":551.549,"text":"幫你回答了嘛 我回答錯了嗎這個一定要照法律的規定來做都非常好啊 我當然知道你我太了解你了 你回答就是這些然後你還在幫大法官洗地我告訴你 來我跟你講沒關係 我告訴你你跟我已經講很多遍了"},{"start":552.881,"end":561.106,"text":"大法官今天至少對死刑判處設下很嚴格的門檻你不否認吧但是目前實務上還是有沒有設下如果說這個當然是來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":572.913,"end":599.987,"text":"既然這樣哪有實質的廢死我問你嘛你是不是跟我講地方法院還是有判死刑案件所以沒有實質廢死嘛你亂講就這個嘛簡單嘛所以實務上的實例上不是告訴這才是來我跟你講沒關係你要拗我隨便你拗我沒有拗啊這是法院的判決來來來我數字答點你我用數字答點你請問過世20年平均有多少殺人犯多少每年平均"},{"start":600.615,"end":615.712,"text":"我這目前沒有資料部長 你當然不知道 因為你不關心啦我不是不關心平均每年150位我告訴你 我幫你解答來 請問平均判死比例大概是多少判死刑大概是多少比例2%啦"},{"start":621.733,"end":650.44,"text":"還有越來越低的情形來 2000年到2015年民進黨執政之前你知道平均每年平均有多少人三省判死三省判死來請問多少人每年平均多少人三省判死你還是不知道第三個不知道3.25位三省判死來請問民進黨執政之後2016年到現在平均每年多少"},{"start":651.519,"end":680.2,"text":"三審判死多少多少你還是不知道0.33位請問每年三審判死的人數減少多少我幫你回答你還是不知道減少九成來這就是民進黨送給台灣司法改革的成果啦我直接跟你預告我跟你預告這還不會是最低的大法官實質廢死的判決出來之後設下八道所謂的"},{"start":682.12,"end":709.867,"text":"這個判決死刑的高門檻0.33不會是最低啦還會更低啦你跟我講地方法院判有什麼用啊上去上去上去就不見了啦就算判到最後你也不執行死刑也一樣不見啦委員那個我想我告訴你立法執行那我想是既定的但是程序同時要走程序部長我告訴你不要再拿程序當藉口你是法務部長"},{"start":711.423,"end":739.129,"text":"刑事司法政策有你的職責有你的職責我講的不是個案啦我是依法執行我講的不是個案啦你講依法執行叫個案所以那個法官那個我講的是司法今天你有司法立法的所謂的司法的一個法治責任法務部長不要跟我講你沒有這個責任喔對啊我講的對啊所以你不會反駁啊但我要跟你講今天我回頭要講部長我對你今天態度非常的不滿意"},{"start":740.987,"end":762.029,"text":"你今天如果心裡有一點點柔軟性 你去看看台版柬埔寨案的那些被害者 往生者你會願意為他們站出來講話 跟羅志強一樣沉冤埋血 已經不能說話了這個委員你說人命的損失的確是無可恢復的"},{"start":763.976,"end":776.743,"text":"最大的一個損害我想我們就站在一個為人伸冤的為死者說話的一個角度我想這個我們檢察官也就在一陣我告訴你我告訴你那些口頭的這些悲憫是沒有辦法讓人起死回生的"},{"start":786.806,"end":804.85,"text":"你這些所謂口頭的悲憫你還在幫大法官洗地的這種我絕對沒有幫大法官洗地沒關係你不認同是你的事情我告訴你剛剛回答就要幫大法官洗地我講的每一個數字是錯的嗎你回去 又試試答連我啊我跟你講 我告訴你我今天這件事就和上去 就這麼簡單因為我沒有辦法接受我沒有辦法接受我剛剛還是在最後一個結論告訴你"},{"start":816.923,"end":837.024,"text":"大法官實質廢死的判決什麼叫實質廢死就是加高判處死刑的門檻就叫實質廢死他讓今天的死刑判決越來越困難降低了九成不說他的判決憲法判決出來之後死刑的判決只會更少不會更多更重要的是什麼"},{"start":838.24,"end":855.583,"text":"你今天令人髮指到已經是慘絕人寰死上所無的台版柬埔案虐殺4個人虐殺4個人關61個人不罰所得4億元都不能判死有啦都有判"},{"start":856.805,"end":871.035,"text":"那個高雄高峰院二審也有良性的行為來來來 你等他等你 你等你執行你告訴我你等你執行死刑完你再跟我講這些我告訴你部長 部長 二審啊我剛剛講的是三審的數據 你還跟我講二審你跟我講地方法院這不是詭辯 什麼是詭辯這不是洗地 什麼是洗地"},{"start":883.422,"end":889.352,"text":"你認住了嘛你 都傻了三秒鐘我剛剛問題是三審 你跟我講一審二審你的幕僚不盡責啦"},{"start":895.233,"end":915.502,"text":"第一個二審三審的給你啦這個判不判死 我們要尊重法院的判決來了來了喔 厲害了啦被我抓包開始 惱羞成怒啊我沒有惱羞成怒被我抓包惱羞成怒 拿資料想要糊弄大家我執行講究三審我執行講究三審你拿一審二審跟我講什麼最後還是一句話啦部長我不是衝著你個人來啦"},{"start":922.622,"end":946.725,"text":"你真的不需要幫大法官洗地真的不需要今天以法務部長身份告訴大家說你也不能認同大法官這種決定因為他今天就侵犯了受害者伸冤的權利死者不能講話我羅志強幫他講話家屬今天正義不得伸張我今天幫家屬伸張正義"},{"start":948.291,"end":967.421,"text":"我一路走來就始終如一我也這件事會繼續盯下去就這麼簡單結果我跟你講你們偉大的民進黨政府跟官員們連我們立法院提出來的反廢死公投都要沒收跟你沒關係跟你沒關係來 跟你沒關係我講的不是你 我講的是中選會你不用緊張我現在要罵的是中選會中選會不在 我不要罵你"},{"start":974.639,"end":999.309,"text":"今天我就問你部長 你也是法律守門人公投法哪一條規定今天中選會可以不辦立法院通過的公投舉一個條文給我聽聽看這個我沒辦法幫中選會來回答這個問題你賴清德愛將你怎麼會去打同僚呢我知道啊 懂啊 了解明白啊法務部長就是法律守門人"},{"start":1001.482,"end":1011.197,"text":"你跟我講你不知道那你當什麼法務部長法律條文清清楚楚明明白你是法律的你不會不知道你只不敢講謝謝你好 謝謝羅委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":944,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時58分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。苗栗中秋連假發生了隨機殺人事件，這個你知道嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個媒體有廣大報導，嫌犯已經被聲請羈押獲准了。"],["羅委員智強：好。他刺傷兩名女童跟一位見義勇為的正義哥林姓男子。剛開始林姓男子跟一位女童一度命危，送到加護病房，但是關鍵是什麼？關鍵是這位邱姓男子其實在10年前的同一地點砍殺了4個人。我想請教一下，林男的女兒曾經針對這個事件向政府公開呼籲司法改革，請問部長你有看到這位正義哥林姓男子的女兒的呼籲嗎？有掌握了解嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想對正義哥的見義勇為，身受重傷，我們祝他早日康復，對這些義舉我們非常地欽佩。我想司法的改革是永無止境的。"],["羅委員智強：我覺得部長你應該是沒看到，因為你跟我一貫看到的部長一樣，你就是開始天空盤旋，轉、轉、轉。林男的女兒說，他從來沒有想過新聞裡的隨機殺人事件會發生在自己家人身上，他希望可以真正地落實死刑。因為像這種吸毒惡犯已經沒有教化可能，放出來會再次對無辜民眾的安全造成威脅。他要請政府跟執政黨正視並改善治安問題，隨機砍人的事件頻傳，這就是司法制度不健全跟社會安全網破裂所造成的後果，這一次是我爸爸，下一次又會是誰？他認為，兇手在10年前第一次犯案，如果就能夠重刑相待的話，今天悲劇就不會發生了，他的父親也不會受到這麼嚴重的傷害。他也講到他的父親前胸、後背各中一刀，傷及內臟及橫隔膜，到現在還呼吸困難，這樣的痛苦兇手永遠無法理解，而身為家人，又只能承受這種傷害跟陰影！","所以我想請教部長，聽完這位正義哥女兒的陳述，你有什麼想法想跟他說、跟社會大眾說？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個兇嫌的確是非常可惡，他隨機殺人，而且在光天化日之下，這個我們已經速查嚴辦、收押偵辦了。對這個行為我們也是不能饒恕，所以委員關心像這種的我們修法，在法制上也把故意殺人或者殺人未遂能夠處10年以上有期徒刑的這些，我們有判刑，我們修法是不給他假釋的機會。所以我們想在法制上對這些行為能夠更加……"],["羅委員智強：謝謝部長，國民黨立法院黨團也提出某些死刑，就是某些無期徒刑的狀況非常嚴重的，基本上是不得假釋，這是我們的立場。但我要跟部長說，今天真的有些受害者，抱歉，他沒辦法講話了，為什麼？為什麼？有些受害者沒辦法講話了……"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員問到一個很核心的問題，因為生命是不可回復的損害。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以受害者如果喪失了生命，在法律上我們絕對是嚴辦。"],["羅委員智強：這位邱男已經不是第一次了，10年前他跟鄰居吵架，找不到鄰居，就拿剪刀到超商攻擊路人跟警察，他自己都承認，他說他殺紅眼要把氣出掉。最後依殺人未遂罪判8年8個月定讞，服完刑依然是治安的炸彈。","可是我要跟部長講一個更嚴重的事情，我看了真的……到現在我都覺得無法接受、無法理解。我想請教部長，詐欺集團關61個人嚴不嚴重？嚴不嚴重？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個當然是很可惡。"],["羅委員智強：這應該是破天荒了吧！我相信，部長，臺灣治安史上有被關過達61個人的嗎？有嗎？有被囚禁的達61個人嗎？有這個歷史紀錄嗎？沒有吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：空前。"],["羅委員智強：詐欺集團沒有吧？空前，對不對？令人髮指！有多令人髮指？2022年臺版柬埔寨事件，主嫌「藍道」杜男等人在桃園淡水關61個人，除了搜身搶劫財物，嘴巴上毛巾、上手銬、綁束帶、關進3坪大的小房間，毒打、電擊、餵毒，1人跳樓輕生、1人休克死亡、1人餵毒致死，通通被棄屍荒野，騙取將近四億元的不法所得，高等法院最後判處主嫌杜男等人無期徒刑。我真的覺得，我今天是……這些受害人，我想請問部長，如果嚴重到關61個人，虐殺3個人，都只是無期徒刑，我真不知道臺灣怎麼還會有死刑呢？還有死刑的存在嗎？","更重要的是什麼？警方今年8月才突然發現，你知道死的不只3個人吧？當年那個案子死的不只3個人吧？部長知道嗎？這個事情我覺得部長你一定要知道，因為真的太嚴重了，你剛剛都講是史上空前的，臺灣真的沒有發生過關這麼多人然後直接在裡面虐殺的事情！你知道死的不只3個人嗎？部長，你知道還有哪些往生者嗎？部長知道嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個部分……"],["羅委員智強：你不知道嘛！你不知道。我告訴你，臺中警方破獲詐團，結果裡面有一個犯案小弟自白，他說當年的臺版柬埔寨案死的不只3個，還有第4個，有一個38歲的林姓男子第一天進去就被打死了！一進去就被打死。到現在，我要告訴大家，冰山一角，你看3年前的案子，只查出3個受害的死者，結果3年後發現原來不只3個人。那我想請問你，到底多少人？到底關了多少人、到底殺了多少人，真的知道嗎？真的知道嗎？根本不知道！","今天我在這邊為什麼要講這些事情？我剛才一而再、再而三地講，為什麼？我們現在大法官實質廢死的判決已經生效了啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有啦！現在還是有判死刑的案件。"],["羅委員智強：有？告訴你，部長，你到現在都不敢跟我講一句話……"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個國民法官……高雄的有，一個國民法官的案件還是有判死刑。"],["羅委員智強：來，我告訴你什麼叫實質判死！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這不是實質廢死。"],["羅委員智強：實質廢死就是，請問你，除了賴清德今天要平息民怨執行的一個死刑犯，現在有多少死刑犯還沒執行？請問你啊！你告訴我。已經兩年過去啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：36。"],["羅委員智強：還有36個啊！非常謝謝你，你這麼雲淡風輕、這麼自信滿滿，還有36個啊！什麼時候執行？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分……"],["羅委員智強：這部分又要看什麼刑事訴訟程序、再審、非常上訴？看很多了啦！我知道，幫你回答了嘛！我回答錯了嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個一定要照法律的規定來處理。"],["羅委員智強：都非常好啊！我當然知道你，我太了解你了，你的回答就是這些。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是法律的程序嘛！"],["羅委員智強：然後你還在幫大法官洗地。"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有喔！這個……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，我告訴你，你跟我已經講很多遍了。大法官今天至少對死刑判處設下很嚴格的門檻，你不否認吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：但目前實務上還是……"],["羅委員智強：有沒有設下……"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果說……這個當然是有設一些要件……"],["羅委員智強：實務上，沒關係，我來告訴你……"],["鄭部長銘謙：但是現在國民法官……"],["羅委員智強：我懂你的邏輯，你跟我講地方法院還是有判死刑的案件。"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以既然這樣，哪有實質廢死？"],["羅委員智強：我問你，你是不是跟我講地方法院還是有判死刑的案件，所以沒有實質廢死，你的論點就是這個、簡單嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以實務上的實例上不是告訴……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，沒關係，你要拗，隨便你拗！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有拗，這是法院的判決。"],["羅委員智強：你再拗！來，我用數字打臉你。請問過去20年平均有多少殺人犯？多少？每年平均？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前我沒有資料。"],["羅委員智強：部長，你當然不知道，因為你不關心啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不是不關心，這個……"],["羅委員智強：平均每年150位！我告訴你，我幫你解答。請問平均判死比例大概是多少？判死刑大概是多少比例？2%啦！還有越來越低的情形。","2000年到2015年，民進黨執政之前，你知道每年平均有多少人三審判死？請問有多少人、每年平均多少人三審判死？你還是不知道！第三個不知道。3.25位三審判死。","請問民進黨執政之後，2016年到現在，平均每年多少人三審判死？多少？多少？你還是不知道！0.33位。請問每年三審判死的人數減少多少？我幫你回答，你還是不知道！減少九成。","這就是民進黨送給臺灣司法改革的成果，我直接跟你預告，我跟你預告這還不會是最低的！大法官實質廢死的判決出來之後，設下八道所謂判決死刑的高門檻，0.33位不會是最低，還會更低啦！你跟我講地方法院判的有什麼用！上去、上去、上去就不見了，就算判到最後你不執行死刑也一樣不見啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，依法執行，我想是既定的……但都是要走程序。"],["羅委員智強：部長，我告訴你，不要再拿程序當藉口，你是法務部長，刑事司法政策有你的職責……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我法務部長要依法……"],["羅委員智強：有你的職責，我講的不是個案……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們要依法執行……"],["羅委員智強：我講的不是個案，你講依法執行叫個案……"],["鄭部長銘謙：對於那個法官……"],["羅委員智強：我講的是司法，今天你有司法立法的所謂司法法制責任，法務部長不要跟我講你沒有這個責任喔！","對啊！我講的是對的，所以你不會反駁啊！但今天我要回頭跟你講，部長，我對你今天的態度非常不滿，你今天如果心裡有一點點柔軟性，去看看那些臺版柬埔寨案的被害者、往生者，你會願意為他們站出來講話，跟羅智強一樣，沉冤埋雪，已經不能說話了！"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，人命的損失的確是一個無可回復的最大損害，我想我們就站在一個為人伸冤、為死者說話的角度……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，部長，你……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想我們檢察官也就在一個……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，部長，我告訴你，口頭的那些悲憫是沒有辦法讓人起死回生的，你這些所謂的口頭悲憫，還在幫大法官洗地的這種態度……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我絕對沒有幫大法官洗地……"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你……"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為我們是依法執行……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，你不認同是你的事情，我告訴你，剛剛的回答就是在幫大法官洗地……"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果說沒有依法執行，我幹嘛要……"],["羅委員智強：我講的每一個數字是錯的嗎？你回去用數字打臉我啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：核發一個死刑令，我執行過死刑。"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，我告訴你，今天這件事我就豁上去，就這麼簡單，因為我沒有辦法接受、我沒有辦法接受，我剛剛還在……最後一個結論告訴你，大法官實質廢死的判決，什麼叫實質廢死？就是加高判處死刑的門檻，就叫實質廢死，他讓今天的死刑判決越來越困難，降低了九成不說，憲法判決出來之後，死刑的判決只會更少，不會更多。更重要的是什麼？今天令人髮指到已經是慘絕人寰、史上所無的臺版柬埔寨案，虐殺4個人，關61個人，不法所得4億元，都不能判死！"],["鄭部長銘謙：有啦！都有判，高雄高分院二審後，梁姓嫌犯殺害馬國女大生案也是判死刑啊！"],["羅委員智強：來、來，等你執行死刑完後，再跟我講這些。"],["鄭部長銘謙：另外高雄地院有一個吳姓男子，在2名幼子面前殺害一對夫妻，也是判死刑啊！"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，部長，我剛剛講的是三審的數據，你卻跟我講二審、跟我講地方法院，這不是詭辯，什麼是詭辯？這不是洗地，什麼是洗地？"],["鄭部長銘謙：你這個問題……"],["羅委員智強：你愣住了嘛！就傻了3秒鐘。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我沒有愣住……"],["羅委員智強：我剛剛問你的是三審，你跟我講一審、二審……"],["鄭部長銘謙：你講這話是偏頗的……"],["羅委員智強：你的幕僚不盡責啦！不遞個三審的給你啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：判不判死，我們要尊重法院的判決……"],["羅委員智強：來了！來了！厲害了！被我抓包，開始惱羞成怒啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有惱羞成怒。"],["羅委員智強：被我抓包，惱羞成怒，拿資料想要糊弄大家……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有，這是具體的……"],["羅委員智強：我質詢講的是三審，你拿一審、二審跟我講什麼！最後還是一句話，部長，我不是衝著你個人來，你真的不需要幫大法官在那邊洗地，我跟你講，真的不需要啦！你今天就以法務部長身分告訴大家，你也不能認同大法官這種決定啦！因為他今天侵犯的是什麼？是受害者伸冤的權利！死者不能講話，我羅智強幫他講話，今天家屬的正義不能伸張，我幫家屬伸張正義，我告訴你，我一路走來始終如一，這件事我也會繼續盯下去，就這麼簡單，結果我跟你講，你們偉大的民進黨政府跟官員們，連我們立法院提出來的反廢死公投都要沒收……"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，你忘掉了，你以前就質疑我不會執行死刑……"],["羅委員智強：跟你沒關係、跟你沒關係……"],["鄭部長銘謙：你有沒有道歉過？"],["羅委員智強：跟你沒關係，我講的不是你，我講的是中選會，你不用緊張，我現在罵的是中選會，中選會不在，我不是要罵你。今天我就問你部長，你也是法律守門人，公投法哪一條規定今天中選會可以不辦立法院通過的公投案？舉一個條文給我聽聽看！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒辦法幫中選會回答這個問題。"],["羅委員智強：當然啦！你是賴清德愛將，怎麼會去打同僚呢？我知道啊！懂啊！了解、明白啊！法務部長就是法律守門人，你跟我講你不知道，那你當什麼法務部長！法律條文清清楚楚、明明白白，你是法律人，不會不知道，你只是不敢講！謝謝你。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅委員。在這邊也要提醒部長，可能之後委員垂詢時，儘量不要用比較不禮貌的語氣去反駁委員，拜託，謝謝。","依照之前的宣告，我們現在休息5分鐘，5分鐘之後再開始。","休息（11時15分）","繼續開會（11時22分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。接下來請傅崐萁委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","吳宗憲","王義川","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅智強","傅崐萁","賴士葆","林楚茵","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","林倩綺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}