{"error":false,"id":["163893"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163893,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163893","日期":"2025-10-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-20,15,35,19,22,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,35,19,22,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","外交及國防委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-08T11:11:53+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-08T11:18:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f0233cd0619a8ff03749027f75a6ef132b1f00580874b155656cd2b685a6ecb80385acd6577be4b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"11:11:53 - 11:18:05","會議時間":"2025-10-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案（114年度至116年度）」【詢答及處理，預算提案於10月8日上午10時截止收件】【10月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.8072187500000001,"end":1.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.8915937500000001,"end":3.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.570343750000001,"end":6.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.98346875,"end":7.844093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.02971875,"end":8.637218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.430343750000002,"end":15.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.26471875,"end":21.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.563468750000002,"end":24.668468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.887843750000002,"end":26.575343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.16596875,"end":33.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.814718750000004,"end":53.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.862218750000004,"end":62.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.58221875,"end":65.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.01221875,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.57284375,"end":70.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.42909375,"end":72.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.52596875,"end":74.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.50034375,"end":78.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.17471875000001,"end":93.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.82221875,"end":99.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.88034375000001,"end":109.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.70159375,"end":115.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.01284375,"end":121.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.81784375000001,"end":124.31534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.73721875000001,"end":128.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.00221875,"end":130.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.96409375000002,"end":156.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.81096875,"end":139.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.16409375,"end":147.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.10034375,"end":150.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.64784375000002,"end":167.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.53346875,"end":159.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.54909375,"end":172.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.25284375,"end":175.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.61534375000002,"end":177.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.88534375,"end":175.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.96971875,"end":176.02034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.26471875000001,"end":183.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.25534375,"end":186.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.14096875,"end":203.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.81346875000003,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.51346875000002,"end":208.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.40346875,"end":213.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.52909375000002,"end":216.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.02659375000002,"end":224.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.67096875000001,"end":230.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.08346875,"end":233.83409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.83409375000002,"end":249.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.13346875000002,"end":235.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.91284375,"end":243.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.74721875,"end":256.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.80971875000003,"end":255.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.44659375000003,"end":256.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.61534375,"end":256.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.95284375,"end":264.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.02034375,"end":257.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.12096875000003,"end":262.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.76596875,"end":291.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.49971875,"end":268.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.09034375000005,"end":268.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.58534375,"end":286.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.02409375,"end":287.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.81659375000004,"end":295.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.55909375000005,"end":293.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.81596875,"end":295.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.57534375,"end":300.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.07721875000004,"end":307.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.26971875000004,"end":314.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.63159375000004,"end":318.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.47909375,"end":328.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.66346875,"end":332.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.77221875000004,"end":332.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.78909375,"end":334.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.11784375,"end":359.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.34971875,"end":336.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.36659375000005,"end":336.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.82159375000003,"end":341.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.47971875,"end":341.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.32346875,"end":342.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.49221875,"end":342.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.86346875000004,"end":342.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.88284375,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.28721875,"end":358.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.64971875000003,"end":364.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.43284375,"end":374.18346875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.984,"end":2.7,"text":"還有衛福部的理事長"},{"start":4.908,"end":32.891,"text":"好 我們請鞏部長還有呂次長周委好部長我想我接續鍾嘉斌委員的質詢我想今年四月美國宣布對等關稅的時候我們全台灣從工廠的老闆到小攤販大家都在擔心大家怕物價漲 怕訂單掉怕生活更難過當時朝野都在喊政府要拿出辦法讓人民撐得下去 日子過得下去"},{"start":33.852,"end":58.783,"text":"那麼行政院提出就提出任性特別預算金額從4100億增加到我們現在的5700億聽起來增加很多但是我們看內容經濟部只有編列460億佔比大概就是大概佔8%那我們看到國防海防的安全任性預算編列將近1500億佔比大概27%"},{"start":63.669,"end":70.35,"text":"所以本席想要請問部長這筆錢不是說要幫助企業嗎要顧民生嗎"},{"start":71.482,"end":92.396,"text":"但是這樣的一個預算的編列要讓人民怎麼感受到我們民生經濟的韌性我們老百姓只看到菜價一直在漲 店價一直在漲物價在漲 韌性在哪裡所以如此對於經濟上對於產業的紓困的規模是否會過小"},{"start":93.917,"end":103.11,"text":"對於美國貿易衝擊的力道我們的強化是不是會不足所以尤其我們現在面對232條款的以及20%疊加關稅的談判現在正在進行中"},{"start":109.819,"end":118.428,"text":"所以產業界面對未來的一個困境仍然是在未定之數政府此次編列5500億的特別預算經濟部的預算規模僅佔8%是否顯然低估了關稅的風險與衝擊"},{"start":130.046,"end":154.713,"text":"部長請簡單回答我們當初有做一個估算如果是單純的關稅問題來講的話那時候估的是百分之三十二公佈以後我們是用這樣的基礎來做編列那當然後面的談判過程當中也可能有滾動式的變化所以為什麼我們保留了這個兩百億可以再做增減那至於就是剛剛提到的其他部分因為"},{"start":157.114,"end":172.015,"text":"國際情勢不單單只是關稅而已還包括地緣政治還有其他的情勢的關係所以為什麼要提升會有其他的這個項目在這裡面就我了解是這樣部長 你當然回答這樣我想我比較關心的是新竹的問題"},{"start":173.297,"end":191,"text":"我想部長我來自大新竹是大新竹是科技的重鎮新竹的科學園區我們讓無數家庭靠著工程師這樣的一個工作有一個安穩的生活但是我們最近聽說政府要協助美國要在他的本土"},{"start":191.661,"end":213.532,"text":"建列台湾科学园区刚才宗家兵委员也讲不管是法规面的问题整个园区服务的一个问题牵涉的面非常的广所以本席真的很担心尤其我们赖金泽总统在日前接受美国保守派名嘴赛斯顿的专访他表示说这个"},{"start":217.114,"end":232.93,"text":"政府支持台積電去美日德投資也樂意與美國一起努力讓美國再次偉大所以我要問部長讓美國再次偉大我們台灣到底要付出多少代價難道不應該是以台灣的利益為優先嗎"},{"start":234.051,"end":247.825,"text":"當然以台灣利益為先八號委員新竹的園區是全世界的典範我們現在一直在擴大新竹的聚落的一個行程現在只是擔心它的地跟水 電不足而已如果夠的話事實上我們會擴大它的"},{"start":249.787,"end":277.619,"text":"我想部長水電土地我自己居住在那邊我非常知道目前來講都沒有問題寶山地深水庫甚至也在規劃興建當中據我所了解所以水的問題都沒有問題當然電可能這部分可能要再加強土地當然我們科學園區三期我聽說好像明年也會有一個著落所以土地也會釋放出來所以我擔心的就是我剛才一直提的"},{"start":278.579,"end":295.082,"text":"如果我們要在美國建類科學園區啊這樣會不會肥了美國瘦了台灣啊不會是不是我們會把台積電送到美國現在連整個科學園區也要一起送過去啊不會送過去會不會是這個問題啊是把我們的能量的延伸"},{"start":296.693,"end":313.126,"text":"所以我們的力量我們地主台灣台灣的力量會更大今天你在這邊回答說能量的延伸但是我們還是很多產業界大家非常的擔心我們一直說要守護矽頓如果說在美國本土建造類台灣科學園區"},{"start":315.027,"end":334.43,"text":"這個是否會造成我們整個產業外移以及人才的流失這就好像NVIDIA為什麼要在台灣設立它的研發中心或總部就是因為它來這邊設立以後對NVIDIA是更好我想我的結論我希望我們政府面對美國的談判我們不是只有配合而已"},{"start":335.211,"end":364.503,"text":"我們要有自己的底線是要確保耕留台灣確保產業留在台灣一定的就業留在台灣一定實力留在台灣人民最擔心的不是僅有跟台美半導體的合作關係啊而是我們整個護國神山是不是會被整群搬走不會所以我想政府一定要考量以台灣利益為最優先是 立足台灣好 以上 謝謝好 我們謝謝林思明 趙偉接下來我們請李燕秀委員"},{"start":372.026,"end":372.912,"text":"謝謝主席 因為今天的時間"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":830,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（11時11分）謝謝主席，請經濟部龔部長、衛福部呂次長。"],["主席：請龔部長，還有呂次長。"],["龔部長明鑫：召委好。"],["林委員思銘：部長，我接續鍾佳濱委員的質詢，今年4月美國宣布對等關稅的時候，全臺灣從工廠的老闆到小攤販，大家都在擔心，怕物價漲、怕訂單掉、怕生活更難過。當時朝野都在喊政府要拿出辦法讓人民撐得下去、日子過得下去，行政院就提出韌性特別預算，金額從4,100億增加到現在的5,700億，聽起來增加很多，但是我們看內容，經濟部只有編列460億，占比大概是8%，國防、海防的安全韌性預算編列將近1,500億，占比大概27%，所以本席想要請問部長，這筆錢不是說要幫助企業嗎？要顧民生嗎？但是這樣的預算編列，要讓人民怎麼感受到民生經濟的韌性？老百姓只看到菜價一直在漲、電價一直在漲、物價在漲，韌性在哪裡？如此對於經濟上、對於產業紓困的規模是否會過小？對於美國貿易衝擊的力道，我們的強化是不是會不足？尤其現在面對232條款以及20%疊加關稅的談判正在進行中，產業界面對未來的困境仍然是在未定之數，政府此次編列5,500億的特別預算，經濟部的預算規模僅占8%，是否顯然低估了關稅的風險與衝擊？部長，請簡單回答。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我們當初有做一個估算，如果是單純的關稅問題來講，那時候估的是32%，公布以後我們是用這樣的基礎來編列，當然後面的談判過程當中，也可能有滾動式的變化，這就是為什麼我們保留了200億，可以再做增減。至於剛剛提到的其他部分，因為國際情勢不單單只是關稅而已，還包括地緣政治和其他的情勢關係，所以為什麼要提升而會有其他的項目在這裡面，就我瞭解是這樣。"],["林委員思銘：部長，你大概回答這樣。我比較關心的是新竹的問題。部長，我來自大新竹，大新竹是科技的重鎮，新竹的科學園區讓無數家庭靠著工程師的工作，有一個安穩的生活，但是最近聽說政府要協助美國、要在它的本土建「類臺灣科學園區」，剛才鍾佳濱委員也講，不管是法規面的問題、整個園區服務的問題，牽涉面非常廣，所以本席真的很擔心，尤其賴清德總統在日前接受美國保守派名嘴賽斯頓的專訪時表示，政府支持台積電去美、日、德投資，也樂意與美國一起努力，讓美國再次偉大。所以我要問部長，讓美國再次偉大，臺灣到底要付出多少代價？難道不應該是以臺灣的利益為優先嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：當然以臺灣利益為優先。"],["林委員思銘：是啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，新竹的園區是全世界的典範，我們現在一直在擴大新竹這個聚落的形成，現在只是擔心它的地跟水、電不足而已，如果夠的話，我們會擴大它的能量……"],["林委員思銘：部長，水、電、土地，我自己居住在那邊，我非常知道，目前來講都沒有問題。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，都沒有問題，我們就會擴大它的……"],["林委員思銘：寶山第三水庫甚至也在規劃興建當中，據我所瞭解……"],["龔部長明鑫：所以像台積電在……"],["林委員思銘：所以水都沒有問題，當然電這個部分可能要再加強。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["林委員思銘：關於土地的部分，科學園區三期，我聽說好像明年也會有著落，所以土地也會釋放出來，我擔心的就是剛才一直提的，如果我們要在美國建類科學園區，這樣會不會肥了美國，瘦了臺灣？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["林委員思銘：是不是我們會把台積電送到美國……"],["龔部長明鑫：一定是互利雙贏。"],["林委員思銘：現在連整個科學園區也要一起送過去？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會送過去。"],["林委員思銘：會不會有這種問題啊？"],["龔部長明鑫：是把我們的能量延伸，我們立足臺灣，臺灣的力量會更大……"],["林委員思銘：部長，今天你在這邊回答是能量的延伸，但是很多產業界大家還是非常地擔心。我們一直說要守護矽盾，如果在美國本土建造類臺灣科學園區，是否會造成整個產業的外移以及人才的流失？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會，這就好像NVIDIA為什麼要在臺灣設立研發中心或總部，就是因為來這邊設立以後對NVIDIA是更好的。"],["林委員思銘：部長，因為時間的關係，我的結論是希望政府面對美國的談判，不是只有配合而已，我們要有自己的底線。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["林委員思銘：要確保根留臺灣……"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["林委員思銘：確保產業留在臺灣、就業留在臺灣……"],["龔部長明鑫：一定的。"],["林委員思銘：實力留在臺灣。人民最擔心的不是僅有臺美半導體的合作關係，而是我們整個護國神山是不是會被整群搬走？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["林委員思銘：我想政府一定要考量，以臺灣利益為最優先。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，一定立足臺灣。"],["林委員思銘：以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林思銘召委。","接下來請李彥秀委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-20,15,35,19,22,26-1","speakers":["林思銘","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","陳亭妃","賴士葆","郭國文","蘇巧慧","賴惠員","柯志恩","萬美玲","葉元之","鄭正鈐","黃秀芳","黃珊珊","林宜瑾","李坤城","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","張宏陸","賴瑞隆","羅明才","郭昱晴","羅美玲","謝龍介","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張智倫","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","邱志偉","王美惠","蔡易餘","牛煦庭","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","張雅琳","林月琴","盧縣一","馬文君","沈伯洋","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","王正旭","林楚茵"],"page_start":71,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148101_00003","1148101_00004","1148101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」","agenda_id":"1148101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}