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本席請我們的李主委請到主委委員好"},{"start":14.566,"end":35.842,"text":"主委好本席想先接着这个陈委员陈文廷委员后面接着询问刚刚您的答复是他属于刚刚陈委员讲的很多他属于言论自由的范围我是说言论自由的不当行使对啊言论自由的不当行使所以这应该是违法明明那个选票已经是"},{"start":37.183,"end":48.309,"text":"用假的錯誤的資訊來誤導民眾這一塊我可能先確認還是要用法律來規範如果是地方選舉它是屬於地方選委會的權責"},{"start":50.154,"end":60.038,"text":"中選會是不是針對全國性的才是你們的還是是怎麼樣縣級以上的選務是由中選會來辦縣級以上所以縣議員是屬於縣議員跟縣長以上的都是中選會所以只有鄉鎮長跟村里長還有代表這些"},{"start":72.882,"end":96.64,"text":"好那所以如果是屬於鄉鎮長代表村里長的那就是縣選委會要針對這個情況他應該他們要出面來制止這種錯誤的假訊息吧我剛剛提到的因為他是必須要用法律所以我們現在的法律還不夠完備對法律的規定才能夠予以限制"},{"start":96.94,"end":119.74,"text":"那主委这个已经很多委员一次一次的会期都讲了你们要不要拿出版本但是我刚才提到的就是高雄高分院其实它有一个这个判决是可以做参考的就是说如果这种情况它危害到选举的公平性的话那是可以适用选拔法104条来予以处罚"},{"start":121.096,"end":143.777,"text":"所以還是有約束力但是不夠嘛因為選完了嘛可能被影響了都選完了才判決嘛在那個當下所以接著本席要請教您現在就是不管是境外勢力或者是一些不法人士散播這個不實的訊息"},{"start":146.256,"end":170.049,"text":"來影響我們國內各式各樣的選舉請問這個部分我們中選會在選務中立框架下扮演的角色和權責界線應該要很明確才對所以中選會對於這種散播不實言論假訊息這種情況你們的澄清機制目前速度跟得上"},{"start":170.869,"end":189.331,"text":"我们的速度非常的迅速非常迅速我们从108年开始就有成立这个错假讯息的防治小组你们发现以后你们会做什么动作我们第一个就是在最快的速度最快的这个时间里面我们一定要发澄清稿"},{"start":190.613,"end":204.808,"text":"你们会公布在哪里我们的网站我们的脸书我们甚至于还要跟行政院的专区要联系可是你们那样还是被动因为你公布在那民众他不会主动看到"},{"start":205.609,"end":230.578,"text":"所以是有疑慮的人他去查他去主動去查或者是有些人他把你們的網站訊息推播別人才看得到大眾才看得到我們會有管道來收集這些東西發現了它是錯假訊息的話除了我們立即的這個澄清包括圖卡淺顯易懂的一個澄清之外"},{"start":231.318,"end":258.158,"text":"我们也会跟平台业者来我们有一个绿色通道平台业者所以你们也会跟平台业者那当然跟平台业者我们有绿色的通道那我们会要求他你应该要查明事实你应该要下架你应该要限职阅览等等限职阅览等等这个是限级以上的你们都可以进行吗如果有反应假信息都可以不包括甚至于包括限级的都可以好"},{"start":259.119,"end":286.679,"text":"那现在因为很多的战场我想主委您了解在LINE在YouTube在IG在TRADE所以我们中选会有没有建立这么多元的管道有分众沟通这些都有都有那还不错很好那接着成效也不错执行的成效下台的这个下架的这个成数蛮高的那接着就是有关"},{"start":287.458,"end":311.487,"text":"中選會作為這個選務機關我們常常也有境外人士或國內不法人士他介入那有些是影響到這個可能他都利用國外的網站弄進來的那我不知道中選會你跟國安檢調檢警調的體系有沒有建立一個制度化常態性的橫向的聯繫"},{"start":313.001,"end":337.378,"text":"因为有些国外的网站你就没办法了如果是牵涉到国安的部分我想国安机关他们都有在监控所以不用你们这边跟他们互通他们自己会主动吗在选举期间应该不会吧当然牵涉到国安的话他们都会主动不是牵涉到国安我是牵涉到国外网站进来干预我们的选举这种情况应该是你们吧"},{"start":337.398,"end":351.583,"text":"而如果是跟國安相關的話我們也會把這個訊息要傳達給國安相關的機關對嘛 你們傳達嘛那我現在問的是你們有沒有建立一個制度化常態性的跟這些國安檢警調單位"},{"start":353.223,"end":373.774,"text":"建立这方面的横向连续的预警机器选举期间各相关的机关有一个联系的平台尤其所谓的检警联调的这个联系的平台都会交换情报好 最后的时间本席要跟您请教"},{"start":376.247,"end":384.594,"text":"這個我們看到行政院永續會的網站上羅列了各部會永續發展目標自願檢視報告獨獨漏了我們中選會"},{"start":389.414,"end":406.955,"text":"为什么为什么中选会自认业务跟永续无关吗完全没有中选会的啊是为什么我们的业务比较单纯嘛跟他这个跟他这个汇报的性质大概有一些主委你这样讲就有一点官僚体系的谢责"},{"start":408.276,"end":434.081,"text":"現在您是主辦全國大選影響國家治理整個治理的這個機關啊你知道選舉結果影響很大那你怎麼可以沒有給自己一個永續發展的策略跟績效報告我們在內部的這個管控是有的啦不行啦我可不可以要求你們能夠在一個月內提出來因為我看到這個聯合國的"},{"start":438.103,"end":467.219,"text":"DGS里面第16项促进和平包容的社会建立有效负责且包容的制度选举制度非常非常重要对我们全民对我们国家治理都影响很大要是这部分我们在世界的排名尤其是英国经济学人报的排名连续几年我们的选举相关的指标都10分了好了我们现在要求了"},{"start":467.719,"end":496.038,"text":"要求主委你可以在這個一個月內正式提出中選會2025年永續發展目標自願檢視報告可以嗎好我會交代我的同事送交本委員會我會交代我的同事但是到時候報告不是我了不是啦要提出來啦沒有問題可以齁那也謝謝主席麻煩這一塊我們能夠列入我們的這個重要的會議紀錄主委承諾可以嗎我會交代下去"},{"start":498.021,"end":502.748,"text":"你自己要領導吧不是他啦是說不是啦我的意思說整個中選會現在要來進行啦好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":586,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時13分）不會，謝謝主席，本席請李主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：主委好。本席想先接著陳冠廷委員的議題來詢問，剛剛您的答復有提到，陳委員講的很多情況是屬於言論自由的範圍啊？"],["李主任委員進勇：我是說言論自由的不當行使，是言論自由的不當行使。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊，所以這應該是違法，明明那個選票已經是用假的、錯誤的資訊來誤導民眾，這一塊我可能要先確認……"],["李主任委員進勇：不過還是要用法律來規範。"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果是地方選舉，它是屬於地方選委會的權責，至於中選會，是不是針對全國性的選舉才是你們的？還是怎麼樣？比如說……"],["李主任委員進勇：縣級以上的選務是由中選會來辦。"],["徐委員欣瑩：縣級以上，所以縣議員是屬於……"],["李主任委員進勇：中選會來辦。"],["徐委員欣瑩：喔，縣議員跟縣長以上的都是中選會，只有鄉鎮長跟村里長及代表這些……"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，如果是鄉鎮長、代表、村里長的選舉，就是縣選委會要針對這個情況來處理，他們應該要出面來制止這種錯誤的假訊息吧？或澄清。"],["李主任委員進勇：我剛剛提到的，因為它必須要用法律的規定……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們現在的法律還不夠完備？"],["李主任委員進勇：對，法律的規定才能夠予以限制，但是我剛剛也提到……"],["徐委員欣瑩：主委，這個是很多委員在之前的會期一次一次的提過了，你們要不要拿出版本啊？"],["李主任委員進勇：但是我剛剛也提到高雄高分院其實有一個判決是可以做參考的，就是說，如果這種情況危害到選舉公平性的話，那是可以適用選罷法第一百零四條來予以處罰，所以還是有約束力。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是不夠嘛，因為選完了，可能有被影響，但都選完了才判決嘛，並不是在那個當下。所以接著本席要請教您，現在不管是境外勢力或者是一些不法人士散播不實訊息來影響我們國內各式各樣的選舉，對於這個部分，中選會在選務中立框架下扮演的角色和權責界線應該要很明確才對，所以中選會對於這種散播不實言論及假訊息的情況，你們的澄清機制目前速度跟得上？"],["李主任委員進勇：喔，我們的速度非常的迅速。"],["徐委員欣瑩：非常迅速？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們從108年開始就有成立錯假訊息的防制小組。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們發現以後會做什麼動作？"],["李主任委員進勇：第一個，就是以最快的速度、最快的時間裡面，我們一定要發澄清稿，這個澄清稿……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們會公布在哪裡？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們的網站、我們的臉書、甚至於還要跟行政院的專區聯繫，都……"],["徐委員欣瑩：可是你們那樣還是被動，因為你公布在那裡，民眾不會主動看到，所以是要有疑慮的人主動去查……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們有很多管道。"],["徐委員欣瑩：或者是有些人把你們的網站訊息推播，別人才看得到，大眾才看得到。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會有管道來蒐集這些東西，發現了是錯假訊息的話，除了我們立即的澄清，包括圖卡，淺顯易懂的澄清之外，我們也會跟平臺業者，我們有一個綠色通道，平臺業者……"],["徐委員欣瑩：喔，所以你們也會跟平臺業者整個去……"],["李主任委員進勇：那當然、那當然，跟平臺業者，我們有綠色的通道，我們會要求他應該要查明事實、應該要下架、應該要限制閱覽等等。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個是縣級以上的選舉你們都可以進行嗎？如果有反映假訊息……"],["李主任委員進勇：都可以、都可以，不只包括……"],["徐委員欣瑩：都可以？"],["李主任委員進勇：甚至於包括縣級的都可以。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，現在因為很多的戰場，我想主委您瞭解，在LINE、在YouTube、在IG、在Threads，所以中選會有沒有建立這麼多元的管道分眾溝通？"],["李主任委員進勇：有，都有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這些都有？"],["李主任委員進勇：都有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那還不錯，好，很好！接著，本席……"],["李主任委員進勇：成效也不錯啦。"],["徐委員欣瑩：成效也不錯？"],["李主任委員進勇：執行的成效，下架的成數滿高的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。","接下來，中選會作為選務機關，我們常常發現有境外人士或國內不法人士介入，有些是影響到……可能他都利用國外的網站弄進來的，我不知道中選會跟國安、檢、警、調的體系有沒有建立一個制度化、常態性的橫向聯繫？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果有牽涉到……"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為有些國外的網站，你就沒辦法啦，這個可能要靠他們……"],["李主任委員進勇：如果是牽涉到國安的部分，我想國安機關都有在監控，而且會處理……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以不用你們這邊跟他們互通，他們自己會主動嗎？在選舉期間，應該不會吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：那當然，牽涉到國安的話，他們都會主動……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是牽涉到國安，是牽涉到國外網站進來干預我們的選舉，這種情況應該是你們要處理吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果跟國安相關的話，我們也會把這個訊息傳達給國安相關的機關。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對嘛！你們傳達嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：會。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我現在問的是你們有沒有建立一個制度化、常態性的聯繫管道，跟國安、檢、警、調單位建立這方面橫向聯繫的預警機制？"],["李主任委員進勇：選舉期間各相關機關有一個聯繫的平臺，尤其所謂的檢、警、廉、調的聯繫平臺都會交換情報。"],["徐委員欣瑩：最後的時間本席要跟您請教，我們看到行政院永續會的網站上羅列了各部會永續發展目標自願檢視報告，獨獨漏了中選會，為什麼？中選會自認業務跟永續無關嗎？完全沒有中選會的啊，是為什麼？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們的業務比較單純嘛，跟這個會報的性質大概有一些距離。"],["徐委員欣瑩：主委！主委，你這樣講就有一點官僚體系的卸責啊，現在您是主辦全國大選、影響國家整個治理的機關，你知道選舉結果影響很大，你怎麼可以沒有給自己一個永續發展的策略和績效報告呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們在內部這個管控是有的啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：不行啦！我可不可以要求你們，能夠在1個月內提出來，因為……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們跟行政院……"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為我看到聯合國SDGs裡面的第十六項，促進和平與包容的社會，建立有效、負責且包容的制度，而選舉制度非常非常重要，對我們全民、對我們國家治理都影響很大……"],["李主任委員進勇：要是這個部分，我們在世界的排名，尤其是英國經濟學人報的排名，連續幾年我們選舉相關的指標都達到10分……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好啦！我們現在要求主委，你可以在1個月內正式提出中選會2025年永續發展目標自願檢視報告，可以嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：好，我會交代我的同事……"],["徐委員欣瑩：送交本委員會。"],["李主任委員進勇：我會交代我的同事，但是到時候報告不是我了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，要提出來啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：也謝謝主席，麻煩這一塊我們能夠列入重要的會議紀錄。主委承諾可以嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：好，我會交代下去、會交代下去。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你自己要領導吧！"],["主席：因為1個月以後不是他了，但他會交代下去啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，我的意思是整個中選會現在要來進行啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：好，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：感謝徐欣瑩委員質詢。請洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-2","speakers":["王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃捷","高金素梅","李柏毅","黃建賓","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","洪孟楷","林德福","吳琪銘","丁學忠"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1147901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147901_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}