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下一支再給你扯"},{"start":508.65,"end":525.17,"text":"譬如說台南的光顛案到現在為止是辦了踢踢踏踏的就明顯是政治性辦案嘛台南的光顛案那個都有生氣壓迫制的其實那個抗告後來法院又重新再採採就在延壓了齁那個包括那個常立人犯那個都辦了齁謝謝委員的指導"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1094,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時39分）謝謝主席、各位先進，有請鄭部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：你好。你知不知道一個通訊軟體叫Telegram？你知道這個吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：知道。"],["賴委員士葆：我們看到近3年從地院出來的裁判書有3萬件，其中詐欺相關的案件有2萬7,000件，也就是詐欺的案件高達九成之多，數發部只有列管Meta（FB）、LINE、Google、TikTok，但其實Telegram這個軟體裡面的犯罪、利誘是非常高的，有些人說臺灣人很少用Telegram，但大家揭說老司機、詐騙集團的最愛就是Telegram這款app。我就請問你，在打詐配合新興科技上面，檢調扮演什麼角色？"],["鄭部長銘謙：在詐危條例裡面有打詐國家隊，還有第3期的行動綱領，我們是扮演懲詐的角色。剛才委員問的是屬於數發部在做行政的監管。"],["賴委員士葆：那是前面的，後面還是你們啊。"],["鄭部長銘謙：後面是我們來究責。"],["賴委員士葆：對，偵辦、起訴都是你們，要透過打詐新興科技與電信、金融機構合作，建立檢舉與查詢管道，基本上是你們的責任，對吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們有建立一個調取資料的……"],["賴委員士葆：我現在就問白話文，現在老百姓很可憐，常常隨便就被騙，特別是透過通訊軟體，一下子上LINE、Telegram就被騙。我是選區選出來的，有人向我陳情，你聽了會流眼淚，有退休的夫妻被騙了一、二千萬，幾乎他們的退休金全部都不見了，也求助無門。你能不能告訴我，你能不能掌握資料……現在一年被詐欺的金額大概一千億左右，數字非常大，請問拿回來多少，你知道嗎？你有沒有概念？"],["鄭部長銘謙：去年查扣的是一百多億，今年是八十幾億。"],["賴委員士葆：到現在為止嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["賴委員士葆：所以大概一成。時間要多久才能夠……"],["鄭部長銘謙：關於這部分，其實委員關心的應該是網路上投資詐騙的問題。"],["賴委員士葆：對。"],["鄭部長銘謙：其實這部分的行政權管單位是數發部，我們……"],["賴委員士葆：它管前面，後面還是你們管。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分都有在做網路巡邏，如果有在平臺發現投資詐騙的話，像Telegram，其實可以向平臺檢舉。"],["賴委員士葆：因為數發部……"],["鄭部長銘謙：而且它可以做下架。"],["賴委員士葆：它有權力下架，可是它就不會下架，它說一定是要你們講，它就下架，要你們來發動、trigger、扣板機，它是這樣子想。"],["鄭部長銘謙：它要有接到檢舉，或是辦案單位有巡邏……"],["賴委員士葆：它等於要檢調核定了，它就下架，所以它不敢直接去下架。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，數發部其實有開發一個系統，就是網路詐騙通報查詢網，可以讓我們去查……"],["賴委員士葆：我請問你，如果我們上你們的網站，包括法務部、檢調、檢察體系或者調查局，能不能看到反詐欺的相關資料？可不可以？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分是宣導，我們有出書，還有一些短影音去做……"],["賴委員士葆：宣導不夠，你們要update資料，我剛剛說過了，你也講了數字，大概拿回來一成，時間都超過1年以上，而且事實上我的幾個陳情人到最後案子都不了了之，就沒有了。","我們來看一個民調。2024精確民調公司做了「台灣司法公正度時事議題調查」，結果顯示民眾對於檢察官公正度相當存疑，不太有信心的有31.6%，非常沒信心的有20.2%，兩個加起來等於是過半的臺灣老百姓對於我們的檢調、特別是檢察官能不能公正起訴、能不能不要選擇性辦案、不要看顏色辦案其實是很憂慮的，過半的老百姓是不買單的。你看到這個數字，特別是……因為我的時間到了，我就簡短地請教你，這是我要問的重點，所有的武器都在檢察官手上，要約談就約談，要搜索就搜索，為什麼起訴以後你們還可以不斷地抗告？針對抗告的權力，在有些國家根本檢察官起訴以後，案子就跟他沒有關係了，全部由法院來決定，怎麼會法院判了以後，檢察官抗告1次、2次、3次、4次，不斷地這樣子？這個你要不要講一下？制度問題。"],["鄭部長銘謙：關於民調這部分，我們都尊重各界的意見，當作我們的參考……"],["賴委員士葆：難道你不會難過嗎？過半的人不相信你們檢察官耶！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個民調以前就有，各家民調都有，我們都做參考。"],["賴委員士葆：都差不多這個數字。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們是要求檢察官辦案一定要嚴守正常的法律程序、公正執法，剛才委員提到的，我們不可能隨便去搜索、隨便去羈押，因為這個搜索、羈押是法院……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有、沒有，我的重點在於抗告。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是法官、法院的職權。"],["賴委員士葆：對，法官判了以後，為什麼可以一而再、再而三一直抗告？"],["鄭部長銘謙：抗告的准駁……這是一個監督法官的機制，以被害人來講，被告起訴移審或者再聲押的話，法院不准，如果沒有給檢察官一個抗告的機會，萬一這個有縱放人犯的……"],["賴委員士葆：別忘了，因為前面都是你們的權力，檢察官要搜索就搜索、要……"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有、沒有，委員，這個是法官保留的，他們有一個准駁……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有錯，法官同意，但是是你們發動的，你們要資料，什麼資料都在手上，如果第一審被法院打臉的話，怎麼有臉再抗告呢？你們就不應該輕率起訴嘛！請問一下，檢察官起訴後的定罪率多高？"],["鄭部長銘謙：九成五。"],["賴委員士葆：九成五？日本是百分之九十九點幾！老實說，如果檢察官起訴以後沒有定罪的話，要有一定的制約機制，就是希望不要亂起訴一通。"],["鄭部長銘謙：不過限制抗告權絕對會削弱監督法院的功能，這樣國家刑罰權就沒辦法實現，對社會公義是沒有幫助的。"],["賴委員士葆：你看一下吧！你看社會各界是怎麼看你們的，這樣就變成政治性辦案嘛！本席簡單舉個例子……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個沒有政治性辦案。因為檢察官都是法律人，我們沒辦法指導檢察官，也沒辦法介入。"],["賴委員士葆：好啦！這是細節的部分，因為本席的發言時間到了，沒時間再和你扯，下一次再和你扯。例如臺南的光電案，到現在為止辦得「離離落落」的，這明顯就是政治性辦案嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：臺南的光電案有聲請羈押獲准。其實那個抗告後來法院又重新再裁，就是延押了，包括藏匿人犯的部分也都辦了，謝謝委員的指導。"],["主席：謝謝部長。不過剛剛賴委員提的這個問題非常重要，據本席了解，依照你們內部的作業規定，其實也是有限制檢察官的抗告，這個部分請你們回去再研議。","接下來本席先處理會議時間，上午的會議繼續進行到所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止。","接下來請林楚茵委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","吳宗憲","王義川","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅智強","傅崐萁","賴士葆","林楚茵","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","林倩綺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}