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經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司。"},{"start":115.316,"end":136.817,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":138.325,"end":140.307,"text":"我會做兩年多的,然後一個做材料,然後兩個做專門,就這樣。"},{"start":177.999,"end":182.461,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":207.748,"end":208.508,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":232.358,"end":233.46,"text":"國務委員會主席"},{"start":246.496,"end":258.739,"text":"台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司："},{"start":274.984,"end":285.731,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":307.483,"end":336.51,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":343.359,"end":364.026,"text":"無限公司有限公司有限公司"},{"start":377.603,"end":377.984,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":393.387,"end":416.374,"text":"議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":418.84,"end":419.46,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":445.865,"end":446.225,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":462.539,"end":463.76,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":485.976,"end":486.336,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":1728.513,"end":1742.815,"text":"還有我們繼續開會進行討論事項請宣讀繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司今日處理宣讀完畢"},{"start":1744.673,"end":1765.01,"text":"好,這個關於114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司。與11月20日第15次會議詢答結束。我們現在要進行逐項的審查。一句預算法第50條。"},{"start":1766.351,"end":1786.257,"text":"以及相關的規定我們照業務計畫部分營業收支及生產成本轉投資計畫重大之建設事業資金運用及補辦預算部分逐項來審查現在請宣讀今日審查項目跟委員提案宣讀完畢之後我們再進行協商請宣讀"},{"start":1788.973,"end":1799.135,"text":"中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案經濟部主管附屬單位預算營業部分台灣自來水股份有限公司一業務計畫請參閱預算書二營業收支營業總收入328億9564萬7千元營業總支出388億2919萬2千元稅前淨損59億3354萬5千元"},{"start":1815.958,"end":1821.481,"text":"3生產成本請參閱4轉投資計畫無劣數5重大資建設事業294億7302萬元6資金運用請參閱7補辦預算1固定資產資建設改良擴充7億5770萬元2長期債務舉借57億元"},{"start":1840.148,"end":1856.109,"text":"台灣電力股份有限公司一業務計畫請參閱預算書二營業收支營業總收入一兆零四十七億八千五百二十九萬三千元營業總支出九千九百七十億四千八百五十六萬元稅前淨利"},{"start":1857.21,"end":1873.784,"text":"七十七億三千六百七十三萬三千元三生產成本請參閱四轉投資計畫增加投資七億五千零三十萬三千元五重大資建設事業兩千六百八十九億八千八百一十九萬八千元六資金運用請參閱"},{"start":1876.141,"end":1887.614,"text":"提案部分,台灣自來水股份有限公司,一營業成本凍結1000萬元委員邱志偉等提案,二銷售成本向下供水費用凍結1%委員陳亭飛等提案,三服務費用檢列100萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案,四"},{"start":1892.458,"end":1914.308,"text":"服務費用瓜湖原水費用凍結10%委員邱盈盈等提案服務費用瓜湖淨水費用凍結10%委員邱盈盈等提案服務費用瓜湖供水費用凍結10%委員邱盈盈等提案服務費用向下水電費檢列5587萬1000元委員謝一鳳等提案檢列1000萬元委員張家俊等提案檢列100萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案"},{"start":1920.706,"end":1921.393,"text":"時水電費、關乎淨水費用"},{"start":1923.946,"end":1935.712,"text":"檢列3000萬元委員張祺凱等提案11水電費瓜湖供水費用檢列1億元委員張祺凱等提案12水電費瓜湖業務費用檢列300萬元委員張祺凱等提案13水電費瓜湖管理費用檢列500萬元委員張祺凱等提案14修理保養與保護費凍結5%委員鄭振前等提案15機械級設備維修庫費檢列1000萬元委員陳超明等提案"},{"start":1954.877,"end":1957.358,"text":"16.暫除包裝代理及加工費,減列100萬元委員邱盈穎等提案。 17."},{"start":1957.358,"end":1959.379,"text":"減列100萬元委員謝亦鳳等提案。 18."},{"start":1959.379,"end":1960.14,"text":"凍結5%委員鄭振淺等提案。 19."},{"start":1960.14,"end":1962.02,"text":"凍結1000萬元委員陳昌明等提案。 20."},{"start":1962.02,"end":1964.781,"text":"暫除包裝代理及加工費向下外包費凍結500萬元委員邱志偉等提案。"},{"start":1974.383,"end":1993.361,"text":"二十一材料及用品費瓜福供水費用凍結一千萬元委員陳超明等提案二十二使用材料費上下原料凍結兩千萬元委員陳超明等提案二十三凍結一千萬元委員邱志偉等提案二十四案凍結五百八十八萬五千元"},{"start":1994.502,"end":2017.744,"text":"委員鄭天才等提案二十五物料凍結兩百萬元委員邱志偉等提案二十六租金與利息向下利息檢列一千萬元委員張家俊等提案二十七檢列兩百九十七萬元委員陳亭飛等提案二十八檢列一百萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案二十九檢列一百萬元委員邱瑞穎等提案三十營業費用向下管理費用"},{"start":2018.353,"end":2028.275,"text":"動輒5%委員張祺凱等提案31固定資產建設改良擴充專案計劃繼續計劃僅列500萬元委員陳亭飛等提案32新興計劃降低漏水率計劃動輒10%委員楊瓊英等提案33動輒10%委員蔡易瑜等提案34動輒2000萬元委員陳超明等提案35動輒1000萬元委員李玉琳等提案"},{"start":2046.707,"end":2054.05,"text":"36無自來水地區供水改善計畫第5期自來水沿管工程凍結5%委員楊瓊英等提案37凍結5%委員蕭一鳳等提案38凍結1000萬元委員邱志偉等提案39案至71案為主決議請參閱"},{"start":2065.657,"end":2082.943,"text":"台灣電力股份有限公司提案部分第一案服務費用檢列1億元凍結1億元委員賴瑞榮等提案第二案服務費用向下火力發電費用凍結10億元委員呂玉玲等提案第三案凍結5%委員謝一鳳等提案第四案輸電費用凍結10%委員楊瓊英等提案第五案凍結5億元委員呂玉玲等提案"},{"start":2090.945,"end":2120.013,"text":"第6案配電費用凍結5億元委員李玉玲等提案第7案營業費用向下管理費用減列10%委員楊瓊英等提案第8案其他營業費用向下研究發展費用凍結1億元委員李玉玲等提案第9案水電費減列223萬6千元委員謝一鳳等提案第10案修理保養與保固費跨乎配電費用凍結2億元委員陳超明等提案"},{"start":2120.937,"end":2128.946,"text":"11案凍結2億元委員張祺凱等提案12案暫除包裝代理及加工費凍結四分之一委員鄭振淺等提案"},{"start":2130.707,"end":2142.993,"text":"13案專業服務費向下工程及管理諮詢服務費括弧水利發電費用凍結30%委員邱盈盈等提案14案專業服務費括弧再生能源發電費用凍結30%委員邱盈盈等提案15案專業服務費括弧業務費用減裂10%委員楊瓊英等提案16案專業服務費括弧其他營業費用向下研究發展費用"},{"start":2158.74,"end":2164.164,"text":"檢列10%委員楊瓊英等提案、17案凍結2億元委員陳昌明等提案、18案公關未落費括弧核能發電費用檢列50%委員賴瑞榮等提案、19媒體政策及業務宣導費檢列2500萬元委員張祺凱等提案"},{"start":2179.755,"end":2199.986,"text":"二十案檢列兩千萬元委員陳昌明等提案二十一案檢列四百五十萬元委員張家俊等提案二十二案推展費檢列七千萬元委員鄭振淺等提案二十三案材料及用品費凍結百分之一委員楊瓊英等提案二十四材料及用品費"},{"start":2201.081,"end":2224.481,"text":"夸乎火力發電費用凍結十分之一委員鄭振淺等提案二十五案購入電力凍結百分之五委員陳超明等提案二十六案凍結百分之五委員張祺凱等提案二十七案使用材料費夸乎火力發電費用減列五百億元委員張祺凱等提案二十八案凍結百分之五委員陳超明等提案"},{"start":2225.656,"end":2254.481,"text":"29案發電用燃料花壺火力發電費用凍結十分之一委員鄭天才等提案30藍梅花壺火力發電費用凍結百分之二十委員楊瓊英等提案31檢列五十億元凍結五十億元委員張家俊等提案32案凍結百分之五委員陳超明等提案33案稅捐與規費向下規費花壺其他營業費用向下研究發展費用"},{"start":2255.145,"end":2262.87,"text":"動結10%委員蔡易餘等提案、 34動結1124萬2000元委員邱益穎等提案、 35其他括弧營業成本、銷售成本、輸電費用、動結500萬元委員邱志偉等提案、36其他向下其他費用向下購入輔助服務支出、減列1000萬元委員陳亭飛等提案、"},{"start":2280.521,"end":2286.186,"text":"37營業成本、銷售成本、火力發電費用凍結10%委員蔡宇等提案38凍結3,553萬9千元委員邱映穎等提案39輸電費用凍結10%委員蔡宇等提案40配電費用凍結10%委員張祺凱等提案41其他營業成本"},{"start":2302.561,"end":2310.948,"text":"雜項營業成本向下用人費用凍結10%為蔡宇等提案。 42營業費用向下業務費用凍結10%為張祺凱等提案。 43凍結5%為張祺凱等提案。 44管理費用凍結1000萬元為鄭振前等提案。 45其他營業費用向下研究發展費用凍結2億元為張祺凱等提案。"},{"start":2329.237,"end":2346.084,"text":"46營業外費用業務財務成本向下利息費用檢列10億元委員振振錢等提案47檢列1億元委員賴瑞龍等提案48其他營業外費用資產報費損失檢列2000萬元委員張家俊等提案49雜項費用向下損失與賠償給付向下核四資產維護管理凍結20%委員張家俊等提案"},{"start":2358.034,"end":2361.397,"text":"50.固定資產建設改良擴充 簡列8000萬元委員陳亭飛等提案51."},{"start":2361.397,"end":2362.698,"text":"凍結500萬元委員邱志偉等提案52."},{"start":2362.698,"end":2364.24,"text":"專案計劃凍結10%委員蔡易瑜等提案53."},{"start":2364.24,"end":2364.96,"text":"凍結1%委員鄭天才等提案54."},{"start":2364.96,"end":2366.101,"text":"凍結5%委員陳超明等提案"},{"start":2378.643,"end":2381.266,"text":"55 凍結500萬元委員邱志偉等提案56 繼續計劃協和電廠更新改建計劃檢列10%凍結10%委員賴瑞榮等提案57 台中電廠新建燃氣機組計劃凍結5億元委員李玉玲等提案58 凍結1000萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案"},{"start":2398.186,"end":2405.729,"text":"59.萬里水利發電計劃檢列20%委員賴瑞榮等提案。60.凍結1000萬元委員鄭振淺等提案。61.凍結十分之一委員鄭天才等提案。62.離岸風力發電第二期計劃凍結10%委員張家俊等提案。63.凍結20億元委員呂玉玲等提案。64.凍結2305萬3千元委員邱毅英等提案。"},{"start":2426.004,"end":2427.525,"text":"65.凍結1000萬元委員邱志偉等提案66."},{"start":2427.525,"end":2428.745,"text":"綠輪第一期計劃檢列1億元凍結10%委員張家俊等提案67."},{"start":2428.745,"end":2429.446,"text":"檢列10%凍結10%委員賴瑞龍等提案68."},{"start":2429.446,"end":2430.466,"text":"凍結10%委員蔡易餘等提案69."},{"start":2430.466,"end":2432.227,"text":"離岸風力發電加強電力網第一期計劃凍結10%委員蔡易餘等提案"},{"start":2451.993,"end":2459.24,"text":"70.南科超高邀變電所擴建計劃凍結5%委員賴瑞榮等提案71.變電所改建二期專案計劃凍結5%委員謝一鳳等提案72.強化電網第一期專案計劃檢列議員委員賴瑞榮等提案73.凍結5%委員謝一鳳等提案74.第一期DIAMI部件計劃"},{"start":2478.786,"end":2479.146,"text":"今天宣讀比較快"},{"start":2504.656,"end":2506.956,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":2534.272,"end":2540.564,"text":"你沒想到招募這麼有效率,這麼快就要過了。你沒有這麼熟悉的。"},{"start":2752.738,"end":2754.239,"text":"本席提案改成主決議"},{"start":2781.36,"end":2789.792,"text":"第2案提案委員不再照列 第3案在通案之後再處理吧 那個先說一下好不好"},{"start":2792.625,"end":2815.686,"text":"謝謝委員提案第三是我們在委員要檢列100萬的一個水電會那跟委員報告就是說我們114年的預算在水電會的部分編了37.25億最主要是台電公司在去年今年的4月跟10月有聯繫兩次的一個"},{"start":2816.787,"end":2817.588,"text":"第4案、第5案、第6案改成主決議。"},{"start":2840.764,"end":2855.557,"text":"156改組決議第7案到第13案來 賴榮你是不是改組決議請那個董事長先說明一下第9案第7到第13案可能都是也是水電會啦那賴榮這邊是要檢列100萬那這個說明一樣董事長能不能檢"},{"start":2866.425,"end":2871.191,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":2880.128,"end":2881.289,"text":"14-15天安委員不在16-20天安委員天安委員只有我在"},{"start":2903.568,"end":2926.44,"text":"20案改成主決議、區域照列21案天文不再照列22、23、2423案本席改成主決議、區域照列25本席提案改成主決議26、27、28、29那個可不可以減100?可以嗎?可以啦。可以。那減100萬。好。減那100萬區域照列"},{"start":2930.525,"end":2933.207,"text":"委員這邊是針對降低到水利這個計畫那因為我們一百四年的一個"},{"start":2959.053,"end":2985.767,"text":"第二階段的一個降漏的計畫我們也是要降到9.77%那我們明年還要再投入80億進去那這個部分因為在強烈我們的供水官網這個也希望委員能夠支持不要凍結我想委員對我們臺中地區的一些的官網是相當的重視也一直在盯領我們那我們會加速來看好啦 全力支持了現在相公"},{"start":2992.959,"end":3002.948,"text":"謝謝當然我們因為漏水率的問題我一直給這個中央一直要錢來給你甚至給部長說你就只有夠了你來拖這麼久錢"},{"start":3004.91,"end":3027.319,"text":"那這個就要凸顯這個問題,你剛才說我們明年預估要希望能夠那個多少?我們會又投入了80億的經費本期是問比例,就是說你的漏水率你希望能夠增加多少?減少多少?漏水率我們今年的目標是113年是12%那我們明年預估會再減了0.3%要大概11.7那查那怎麼明年只有減0.3%?"},{"start":3037.977,"end":3056.736,"text":"這個就是我之所以為什麼會提這個問題因為你現在不是95分要來96分97分沒有那麼困難那原因是什麼為什麼我們投入80億然後我們的減少的漏水率只有0.3%"},{"start":3058.67,"end":3080.512,"text":"跟委員報告之前這幾年來我們辦的那個漏水比較大的管段我們大概都優先處理了那現在還有一些維護比較小漏水的地方更不好做所以要投入的經費越多可是找回來我覺得這個理由我不太能夠接受的原因是什麼呢因為我們的漏水率現在還12%多"},{"start":3081.633,"end":3081.653,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":3101.181,"end":3101.201,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":3120.521,"end":3123.082,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司及19日二天一次會議"},{"start":3143.453,"end":3169.313,"text":"所以沒辦法 拍嘴 你是錢開不掉的 你一樣要花啊 那你再拍嘴 尤其像舊城區裡頭 你講的拍嘴跟我們的漏水綠湯 你標示第一你錢開嘴一定有成效 第二你就是拍嘴 像古社區 人家就給你 違章給你訂入面訂 你歐不會過 那這一種的有的時候施工又停掉"},{"start":3170.174,"end":3171.214,"text":"總統,我最不喜歡聽到這樣子"},{"start":3196.667,"end":3205.092,"text":"國際建是國際建他的情勢我現在告訴你的說我們明年投資八十幾億那我們的漏水率只改善0.3%你看這樣背心聽到嗎?"},{"start":3222.584,"end":3248.932,"text":"我們會再來強化把這個漏水率降得更低啦董事長繼續加油啦繼續加油那要怎麼樣說啊因為你告訴我說是因為拍嘴啊這個邏輯很奇怪啊拍嘴就是標籤你的錢消不上去連次是不是這樣啊你不是你拍嘴錢消了然後漏水率之後減0.3不是做我們還是慈禧會去做啦只是說他本來"},{"start":3249.953,"end":3255.383,"text":"這個管線比較漏的量比較少了齁所以降的幅度就會比較少"},{"start":3256.274,"end":3256.474,"text":"好 對 好"},{"start":3284.854,"end":3285.095,"text":"主席"},{"start":3305.878,"end":3330.339,"text":"好,針對這個漏水率第一個本席是肯定在經濟部昨天我有收到你們的回文針對這個高耗水的一個機構你們願意比照北水來增加這個高費水每年1000噸以上的這個是本席倡議多年那今年你們願意接受這樣的一個提議"},{"start":3331.239,"end":3359.827,"text":"第2個降水率這邊我也要請我現在向你講不是針對台水講我針對經濟部部本部講你這80幾億是借的所以我一直認為我既然台水的最重要的任務之一除了供水以及降低漏水這是你兩個最大的任務以及你搶救結果你的這個降你的漏水這件事情你全部都借款"},{"start":3361.018,"end":3382.836,"text":"我覺得這個次長您覺得這樣妥適嗎?你八十幾億哇講到八十億好像很多欸結果是你們借錢欸然後你們每年都在借錢台水不倒財怪它負債一千四百多億我都不曉得哪一個全世界哪有一家公司它負債一千四百多億它還有一個活著"},{"start":3384.253,"end":3406.032,"text":"所以我認為行政院你們一定要強力去說服行政院,強力去說服主計處你們從頭到尾這1400多億是你們員工懶惰嗎?是你董事長總經理領導無方嗎?是根本經濟部都不,你們的行政院有沒有支持你?你經濟部有沒有替台水講話?全部都是政策,難道漏水這個不是政策因素嗎?"},{"start":3407.253,"end":3421.63,"text":"所以我一直不以為然對於台電、中油我們都可以用這個超收的這個稅金去撥補他一補都是一兩千億台水我們他真的你比小孩子還要可憐你知不知道我覺得經濟部你作為國營企業的"},{"start":3425.595,"end":3425.775,"text":"經濟部次長你講個話吧"},{"start":3462.591,"end":3476.802,"text":"開發水源越來越辛苦但是降漏水利其實是一個比較好的方法我想這個預算部分我們當然支持但我也希望未來經濟部行政院給台水更多支持你要開發新的真的很難但是"},{"start":3477.202,"end":3495.546,"text":"未來水越來越重要那一定要持續的降漏水率還有很大的空間很多地方都要很大的空間那我想還是建議各位是不是這個預算給予支持然後但是也希望未來台水持續增加更多的經費來做漏水率改善同時間行政院經濟部給予更多的支持"},{"start":3508.117,"end":3532.895,"text":"謝謝主席其實我在這部分我會認為說要檢視因為說我們可能有一些這個計畫當中的問題所以我知道過了所以這個部分我就沒有意見我就照我們剛剛所講那這個漏水率的部分其實我相信我們從之前在質詢的部分也一直強調就是說你要怎麼把舊管線"},{"start":3534.236,"end":3542.668,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":3550.299,"end":3576.681,"text":"所以你真的在哪裡漏你真的不知道所以我覺得說我們應該要我之前就提過說我們應該要有一個大主張就是說因為你雖然說現在從114年到121年有這樣的大計畫可是我們這麼長的時間到底我們預計要達到什麼樣的程度我覺得應該要更清楚跟民眾表示而且這是專攻的啦"},{"start":3578.144,"end":3603.069,"text":"這不是給他摸個地方,所以大家都在爭這件事爭這件事到底誰比較急需、急迫誰那邊漏水的狀況已經是到了沒有辦法復恨我相信這個問題會是在這裡,所以可能那個原則性跟處理應該要更清楚的呈現,謝謝謝謝,下一位總理,將領事務,謝一鋒"},{"start":3607.772,"end":3620.522,"text":"剛剛那個戴華有特別提到那個負債那麼嚴重的問題啦那雖然老實講台水這段時間算是貢獻蠻大的我提兩個啦一個他應該市長今天在這邊因為跟行政院要求要比照台電嘛"},{"start":3621.82,"end":3649.331,"text":"台電現在不是從明年開始他那個各個機關自己的那個電費他們就自己負擔了對不對?現在台水還沒有是不是?我們對國中小學的那個優待的水會跟委員講一下跟委員報告台電對各部會優待的部分大概有各部會明年要自己編譯算那不再補助那我們水公司對國中小學的這個水會的優待的部分"},{"start":3649.791,"end":3673.521,"text":"目前我們還是持續並沒有由各部會或是各縣市政府來補編依算：對啊那公平啊為什麼台電可以這樣子為什麼台水沒有那這個是台電公司今年他們在電價審議委員會有做這樣的建議然後經過行政院這邊協調各部會那原來有各部會來從114年來編這個補"},{"start":3677.863,"end":3684.085,"text":"對啦,所以我今天要求說應該要比照嘛,對不對?"},{"start":3684.085,"end":3702.049,"text":"要去給行政院請署嘛,台水比照,台電該有的那個,如果是有優惠,有些補助,那應該回到各個單位去,這樣那個債務才會降下來嘛,才能解決剛剛戴化講那個問題嘛,要不然你台水虧損那麼嚴重,負債那麼嚴重,好不好?"},{"start":3703.749,"end":3724.956,"text":"我們一年大概有7000多萬優待給這些政府7000多萬對那7000多萬先要回來嘛好不好這是第一個要反映第二個還有一個方法嘛我就看了一下那個人家北水人家北水是賺錢的啊那台水為什麼一直賠因為北水是五個他分五個集聚嘛對不對五個集聚嘛你現在只有四個集聚"},{"start":3726.004,"end":3752.59,"text":"那我是建議你們比照一下是不是應該也要調適度的調一下這個調完之後有兩個好處一個就是用水少的一般的家戶喔一般家戶跟北水一樣你的那個水費是降低的可是用水的大戶他是會增加的這是第一個優點這樣鼓勵鼓勵大家要節水然後用這個使用者付費一般的民眾是水費是會降的相對如果是用水大戶他就會省這是一個對不對第二個你的收入會增加很多"},{"start":3753.57,"end":3754.691,"text":"下一位謝宏"},{"start":3772.093,"end":3785.822,"text":"我覺得現在在講調水費這個東西事實上不好意思齊凱偉我跟你有不同的看法因為畢竟我們就是說目前今年度才漲了電費"},{"start":3788.284,"end":3809.685,"text":"當然我們還是必須要試情況即便是用水大戶有可能也是用電大戶在這個情況下當然未來看怎麼樣子調整對自來水的財務是比較好的但是在今年這個情況下很多企業因應一些都已經因應不及"},{"start":3810.305,"end":3834.566,"text":"那如果在這個情況下這些中小企業我們必須要考量到他們是否能夠經營那在這種情況下我覺得是不是要調水那當然各部就是說中小學的部分是不是應該由教育部國教署統一來就是給就是說負擔這個水費的部分由政府來"},{"start":3835.026,"end":3837.587,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":3853.394,"end":3854.655,"text":"你昨天一直給我講這四個字"},{"start":3876.007,"end":3887.434,"text":"天靈眼如長夜玉冥燈啊因為你講的比較不好那個張家俊"},{"start":3891.051,"end":3917.606,"text":"大主席就是前面幾位委員大家都講到這個水費要不要漲這件事情那我想要講一下其實台水公司有一個重要的責任因為之前的這個經濟部長王美華他就曾經講過說要向行政院爭取編列公務預算來支持台水的這個財務韌性是不是大家都點頭嘛你們都記得這件事情那可是呢"},{"start":3918.827,"end":3935.22,"text":"114年的預算只看到經濟部補助台電公司對台水公司所用的所用的這個公用路燈優惠電價差額兩萬你們不覺得經濟部對台電跟台水之間的那個"},{"start":3936.42,"end":3938.781,"text":"若差太大嗎?"},{"start":3938.781,"end":3955.407,"text":"對台電是要爭取撥補兩千億耶。 然後對你們台水就說阿否則爭取這個路燈的優惠店家補你們差額兩萬。 是,但是你接受嗎?你接受嗎?就是說這個"},{"start":3957.188,"end":3957.228,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝"},{"start":3985.962,"end":4006.205,"text":"張旭凱之後陳俊英、陳俊英之後陳少明之後我們就請陳副大副大副之後我們就來處理我很精準的定義一下好不好今天不是要調漲稅費我剛剛的提案是比照北水是要民生用電要降包括中小企業也要降對不對只有用電大副長我再重複一次齁今天要討論的"},{"start":4007.486,"end":4030.012,"text":"特別是媒體朋友拜託一下不是要漲水價是要降水價降民生家庭一般家庭的用水是要降的還有中小企業也是要降的只有一部分要漲的是什麼比照北水的標準從4級變成5級用電大戶用水大戶就是用很多水的才會漲就對了好不好我們把它非常清楚的定義好不好"},{"start":4030.772,"end":4034.774,"text":"主席不好意思我的第二個提案然後27跟31拜託我改組決議謝謝第二跟27改組決議然後昌明跟3127、31還有接下來陳昌明"},{"start":4059.947,"end":4071.819,"text":"首先關於我的第19案雖然討論通過了但是我總要了解你這邊一共編列了36億7千多萬"},{"start":4075.456,"end":4097.084,"text":"用戶新裝工程為外承包這個是有需要但是裡面有一個高級淨水處理及廠站操作為外處理還有海水淡化廠為外處理但我記得海水淡化廠跟高級淨水處理的話是由水利市來蓋"},{"start":4099.272,"end":4119.819,"text":"這個進化廠那你們怎麼要有委外處理你們的功勞在哪裡所有設備是水利使幫你們負責的阿你們賣水到底這邊有沒有你如果給他委外處理你到底有沒有賺到錢阿你不要太老實常常聽中央的註冊常常錯誤阿"},{"start":4123.606,"end":4142.655,"text":"這個解釋一下讓我了解一下那個解釋一下我們就要處理齁我看齁不只解釋一下這個陳昌明這個委員這個案子很重要再跟陳委員再有一個時間再去辦公室詳細的說明了是來跟我報告現在不用解釋的意思你現在不是啊不用不用不用詳細報告比較好因為這個解釋齁它時間上有時候這個時間不夠"},{"start":4146.334,"end":4147.596,"text":"我先說一下,不好意思,34案"},{"start":4160.888,"end":4180.111,"text":"你這個漏水率我記得每一年都編列了很多那降低漏水率的計畫今年編了72億我記得每一年都在編那你們確實也有降水的不錯已經從今年的目標是12%"},{"start":4182.312,"end":4187.297,"text":"從19.5降到12.4表示自來水公司的員工都非常猛烈但是現在落水總覽超過3億立方公尺這裡面你們要談到自行NOR之大四季落水偵測輔助系統"},{"start":4203.786,"end":4220.612,"text":"叫做WADA另外還有跟工業業合作開發雲端AI補助漏水政策的技術這時候了解一年開70個月要花100個月去走漏水的話到底有什麼進步"},{"start":4222.152,"end":4243.736,"text":"國外有沒有最先進的技術?我看你們本來現在如果我預算沒有幫你提示算你們已經將近的編列了將近千億來做落水計劃從頭到尾你們每一年都有談落水計劃一天開一天開還是容纏在12多%這點要研究啦你們這到底怎麼做?讓我們了解一下"},{"start":4246.377,"end":4271.063,"text":"是是 請開始說明這個我們這樣大概有做分期計量管管線台灣那其實管線台灣是比較花錢的就是更新這些舊的管線一年大概百分之七八十的經費都是用在台灣管線那百分之二十左右我們是加強管理就是剛才委員所講的我們做了用AI的科技解漏的方式去把"},{"start":4271.563,"end":4293.17,"text":"有滲漏的點把它找出來另外我們建置了很多的監控系統那有這些監控系統我們去做比對分析我們現在公司內部這個大書記的分析一下我們開挖的一個挖打的一個系統每天都可以去監測我們的供水官網哪邊有弱點或是有異常那可以及時去處理"},{"start":4293.567,"end":4306.612,"text":"那這些司機能不能把它當在AI的運用邊算算做出台灣一套特別的系統用到全世界把以前的虧的錢都賺回來啊投資的錢賺回來我會講不懂怎麼說我做"},{"start":4310.798,"end":4333.394,"text":"你台灣AI你裡面有公的AI你把大四季然後用AI去做的話另外做一套運算邊緣的軟體系統賣錢把它賺回來以後就不怕了這個AI科技展覽我們是跟工研院合作開發出來而且我們有在今年的水勢大會裡面 有沒有一定一個模式可以用在全世界通用的"},{"start":4334.324,"end":4337.707,"text":"可以可以可以可以吼,那我回去瞭解一下,謝謝"},{"start":4350.851,"end":4350.871,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":4372.332,"end":4398.159,"text":"那時候我們的自來水費裡頭有附贈一個百分之三十的教育捐那個就是我把它改掉的因為早期的時候呢有房子的人以較好養人教育困難所以自來水費裡面附贈百分之三十的教育捐很多人不知道所以當時省政府我告訴省政府說不要欺騙老百姓捐是高興就捐"},{"start":4399.92,"end":4401.501,"text":"但是今天我們討論到這個很重要的議題"},{"start":4426.579,"end":4441.646,"text":"自來水不能漲價受政府的指引協助我們的廣泛民眾但是我們做了這個功德可是該當回歸給自來水的一定要回歸學校的部分我們要協助學校"},{"start":4442.486,"end":4464.703,"text":"政府我們這個9年國民醫護教育你本來就是政府要協助哪有你現在已經改制為自來水公司你們的股東都不會有意見嗎甚至有你們的股東縣市政府跟我說看多了拜託你幫我找找我每年都要了結我不要了他寧願我不要繼續了結"},{"start":4466.384,"end":4491.124,"text":"這是政府股東是政府委縣市政府委他都有這種心聲所以你們當董事長總經理的你們當部長次長的你更要有責任要解決這個問題也就是既然教育軍都已經廢除了那為什麼我們國中小學甚至直轄市裡面的完全中學高中的這個部分縣這個"},{"start":4492.825,"end":4503.412,"text":"那都是政府的那為什麼這個應該要回歸到教育部應該是要行政院雖然剛剛說統計應該是不止啦所以我要求你們去統計不止7000多萬啦"},{"start":4507.975,"end":4522.704,"text":"你們應該因為你要包括直轄市6個完全中學一般高中以前我們的台中、陸中、台中一中是國立現在是市立那一些你有辦法納入嗎?你有沒有統計進來呢?有嗎?"},{"start":4525.746,"end":4553.031,"text":"是一般的國中小對啊一般的國中小啊那我告訴你啊高中以上就沒有優待了對啊那你哪裡還想喔以前是國力台中一中現在是勢力台中一中那你在教育應該一視同仁啊你們是不是估算那你行政院你次長你們經濟部你應該要去擺人家要回來啊台電董事長坐在那邊啊曾董事長靠我靠爛啊"},{"start":4555.272,"end":4579.249,"text":"這個李董事長你也很有勇氣啊為什麼水電你這個你當主管的就是要去解決制度面的問題所以我希望做一個主決議就是學校的這個這個優惠的部分應該由行政院回歸到教育部來支援之這如果還沒有的話你也對不起我們所有的員工啦"},{"start":4580.469,"end":4596.28,"text":"每一年在講這個不對的啦 所以我想要做一個主決應該各位請我們藍綠白的委員 請主席來支持你們要趕快依照這樣子 有一個曾董事長坐在那裡 人家都這樣啊 你們還坐著睡 對不對 不行這樣啦好 謝謝楊卿委員 那個36到38 那本席38案改組誰 主決議"},{"start":4609.111,"end":4634.72,"text":"那個剛剛楊委員說主決議有沒有東西去稍微寫一下?主決議主決議來那現在謝業豐委員改主決議嘛對改主決議那36案林倩琦委員也改主決議那個楊委員對好OK好那處理39案水公司意見遵照辦理好照案通過30、40案遵照辦理"},{"start":4635.18,"end":4640.243,"text":"暫通過41案、暫通過42案、暫通過43案、暫通過44案、暫通過45案、暫通過46案、暫通過47案、暫通過48案、暫通過49案、暫通過50案"},{"start":4656.707,"end":4663.732,"text":"中照辦理 責任通過51案 責任通過52案 責任通過53案 責任通過54案 責任通過55案 責任通過56案 責任通過57案 責任通過59案 責任通過60案 責任通過61案 責任通過60案 責任通過63案 責任通過64案"},{"start":4685.43,"end":4685.59,"text":"主席"},{"start":4706.442,"end":4730.393,"text":"謝謝主席這個雖然我的案改成我是用主決議但我還是要請教一下就是我們在講那個偏遠地區無自來水那過去我們都會有做一些減水設施那我曾經也提出過一個構想就是說其實我們不一定要每一個偏遠的山上都去拉入自來水的關鍵如果能夠做減水然後由自來水公司去"},{"start":4732.779,"end":4732.939,"text":"哈囉哈囉"},{"start":4741.697,"end":4768.829,"text":"這個概念有沒有構想有沒有在你們的計畫有沒有在預算裡頭去做實施去做兌現包括跟經濟部跟水利署的那個對接的部分這個在水利署吼它無自來水地區的改善計畫裡面就有一塊是要補助給簡易自來水的設備的維護跟建設那這個區塊是由水利署這邊在做主導我知道那那個今天水利署是誰來"},{"start":4770.388,"end":4774.19,"text":"市長,市長你了解嗎?有有有,這個我們有編列在水利署那邊,確實是有編,有30億有編這塊再處理。"},{"start":4789.896,"end":4809.008,"text":"不是,偏遠山區你們當然是有無自來水計畫嘛然後我現在講的是你去做減水設施由減溢了自來水的設施然後從那裡去拉管到各偏遠山區的部落的住戶裡頭去那包括那個即使它是減溢自來水但是它的水值"},{"start":4809.828,"end":4823.802,"text":"還是必須要有保證這個技術跟這個水質的標準是要由自來水公司去協助處理有關這個下一期的這個無自來水的計畫行政院在11月剛剛核定那從114年就開始做"},{"start":4826.084,"end":4841.424,"text":"那在這一次的一個測定的作為裡面除了沿館自來水沿館以外捷運自來水是這一次的測定重點所以剛剛委員特別談到的我們有一些水質的改善還有一些除潮的一個提升我們過去很多受到災害"},{"start":4842.265,"end":4859.581,"text":"就很容易除草就那個淨水池的一個部分不見那現在已經增加到5天所以我們這一次在管理的層面有加大力度在辦跟委員報告這一次有所以這個錢是全部水利屬是是是跟自來水公司沒有關係是我們是有在辦嚴管而已我們跟自來水"},{"start":4862.304,"end":4885.056,"text":"公司合作是百分之七十部分是在沿管的部分有百分之三十是簡易自來水的部分好那你辦沿管我再請教一個更深入的問題就是說你現在在山上做的簡易自來水塔要拉的那個管線是算自來水的還是算水利的算我們的算那個簡易自來水的部分那這由我們來補助只要是工程面的部分簡易自來水的管線有必要都是由我們這個計畫來辦"},{"start":4887.065,"end":4898.123,"text":"所以那你這個計畫還是有那個評比的那個級距嗎?那你如果是這樣你很多偏遠的地方他還是裝不到自來水啊?"},{"start":4899.453,"end":4927.834,"text":"對我們是因為現在每一戶的成本如果超過100萬大概是有困難因為成本太高我們就效益會不夠你有去算過你現在100萬是因為從山下拉管線上去我現在講是說你如果在山上直接做減水的設施直接這樣拉管線成本是不是會降低那是不是可以讓更多的沒有錯普及到更多的戶對我們就是目前按照這種方式來辦理沒有錯是是是先問西鳳"},{"start":4931.108,"end":4932.57,"text":"第7案跟第17案改組決議?"},{"start":4932.57,"end":4935.352,"text":"第7跟第17改成組決議剛才楊雄議員那個組決議有沒有在... 我們就先讀剛剛已經通過的協商結論"},{"start":4958.888,"end":4979.638,"text":"宣讀自來水協商結論第一案預算照列本案改為主決議第二案預算照列本案改為主決議第三案預算照列本案改為主決議第四案預算照列本案改為主決議第五案預算照列本案改為主決議第六案預算照列本案改為主決議第七案到十三案簡略服務費用"},{"start":4980.498,"end":5001.465,"text":"一百萬元科目自行調整其中第7案改為主決議第14、15案預算照列第16至17案預算照列其中17案、20案改為主決議第21案預算照列22案至24案預算照列其中23案改為主決議25案預算照列本案改為主決議26至29案"},{"start":5004.506,"end":5031.777,"text":"簡列利息費用100萬元其中27案改為主決議第30案預算照列第31案預算照列本案改為主決議第32至35案預算照列其中32案、34案、35案均改為主決議第36至38案預算照列其中36案本3案均改為主決議主決議部分39案至71案均照案通過"},{"start":5033.683,"end":5058.823,"text":"宣讀完畢好,我們補一下那個70新增71支議案遭案通過好,遭案通過好,這個請問各位同仁有委員提案的部分關於台水的部分有委員提案的部分居然照剛才宣讀的結論通過沒有提案的部分均照列或隨時調整請問有異議"},{"start":5061.571,"end":5086.688,"text":"通過的決議文字授權主席及議事人員來整理那水公司的預算處理完畢請水公司的同仁辛苦了可以離席了謝謝次長你還不能離席我們休息五分鐘必要時間長兩分鐘"},{"start":5555.936,"end":5585.476,"text":"來 我們現在進行台灣電力股份有限公司的協商董事長董事長好 那個這個 沒關係 董事長也在 市長也在第一案 服務費用 這案我們不在 照列"},{"start":5587.403,"end":5599.937,"text":"第二案、第三案李玲委員跟謝一鋒委員那個一鋒要改組決議嗎?沒有,我是問他吧"},{"start":5609.974,"end":5629.714,"text":"陳董先說明,第二、三那個跟委員報告就是所謂那個服務費用這一大塊原則上都是技術費用就是說簡單來講在火力裡面如果是屬於服務費用都是維修費用比較多書便店的也都是就是這一類的"},{"start":5630.795,"end":5653.226,"text":"我們有幾個系統各個系統底下的服務費用都是類似維修等等的費用比較多那各位委員會比較關心的當然就除了業宣費那些以外大部分都是各個系統的維修費用等等我凍結啊我就是我們就是說凍結嘛做文字修正嘛對不對那個凍結然後凍結提書面報告凍資是不是"},{"start":5663.174,"end":5664.694,"text":"關於台電提了第10案就是服務費2跟3"},{"start":5693.481,"end":5708.265,"text":"董事長剛剛也說了就是說如果維修的當然我們一定會全力支持但是就是說你宣傳的部分我們現在真的不知道說我們這個全國的火力放電"},{"start":5710.166,"end":5726.252,"text":"您是要宣傳說 經濟在燒 還是宣傳說 金不要燒您現在要宣傳什麼 我也希望聽到說明 那另外我也支持西方委員跟李毓民委員的要凍結 然後報告後使得凍結 來來 西方"},{"start":5730.522,"end":5751.276,"text":"不好意思,我再補充說明就是還有火力發電的部分因為你們也要做碳補桌那是不是也請台電說明一下你們碳補桌未來要進行的速度以及怎麼做這個部分也應該要給民眾了解清楚才能知道說大家對於台電減碳的準備做得怎麼樣好,請台電說明跟委員報告就是說那個"},{"start":5759.025,"end":5784.752,"text":"其實台灣現在是同時要面對兩個方向的考驗第一個就是我們用電量增加那主要是我們的產業發展的原因那在火力發電的部分現在我們主要都是用天然氣未來的火力發電主要成長都是天然氣那燃煤會逐漸的減少這是第一個前提那當然是為了要供應我們國內用電的需求"},{"start":5786.412,"end":5810.317,"text":"天然氣的碳排量是燃煤的一半所以我們會先用天然氣來做減碳的工作長期來看當然我們希望未來火力發電能夠讓新進的技術來替代這個是全世界都在共同努力的方向其中一項就是謝委員關心的CCS到底能不能做、要怎麼做CCS現在的狀況是這樣"},{"start":5813.438,"end":5838.259,"text":"湯卜桌封存原則上他現在要考慮的最關鍵的是成本就是技術一直在進步這幾年來技術一直在進步那還有兩個事情一個事情是那個捕捉的技術怎麼樣減少能耗另外一個部分就是在封存的部分怎麼找到適合的地址那同時在封存的技術上面能夠成本降低因為我們現在不是把那個氣體"},{"start":5839.56,"end":5855.009,"text":"直接灌進那個拿去封存就是他要進到一個臨界狀態才能夠封存所以他需要使用能源就把它壓縮等等那這些相關的工作我們都在發露這一些技術的眼鏡在追那現在的狀況是這樣我們有做一些試驗性的暗場先做封存"},{"start":5861.032,"end":5863.673,"text":"台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司"},{"start":5882.343,"end":5893.792,"text":"有幾個適合的地點有幾個適合的地點可以做這些相關的工作那當然主要都還能夠跟我們的火力電廠匹配他的位置還可以匹配那可以匹配的地點我們會先做謝謝喔那個我們是不是速度凍結因為火力發電我這個新南火力發電廠一次"},{"start":5904.298,"end":5922.909,"text":"那我是覺得這個171億大家都有公視我們部分凍結嘛部分凍結的額度我看是不是不要說10億是不是可以能不能簡略4度啦簡略4度啦各位我們是不是簡略4度然後凍結4度啦比如說減1000萬凍結1億減1000萬凍結1億啦"},{"start":5938.641,"end":5940.682,"text":"5%也很那個阿,5%也還好啦"},{"start":5965.445,"end":5978.998,"text":"人家沒有要剪裂,你為什麼要剪裂?是你要剪裂的喔?沒有啦,因為我有火力發電廠在那邊喔對,我有火力發電廠,我們一國就剪裂人命啊不是啦,那個專體委員沒有要剪裂啊你這樣說不起來就好啦"},{"start":5981.892,"end":5985.633,"text":"這兩案處理,一個凍結5%一個凍結10億那我也說那些依放價5%就是差不多要9億,要9億是不要凍那麼多,凍結3億就好了沒有啦,3億太少啦你不要5%啦,你要9億嘛,你凍結6億啦8到20的凍資安就好了"},{"start":6012.449,"end":6014.59,"text":"主席我已經講到6億你只要講一個5億不是那但是主席我的問題沒有回答"},{"start":6033.201,"end":6037.523,"text":"到底你這個部分170多個維修的我們全力支持你宣傳的是要宣傳火力發電廠繼續加速修或是不要修或是減少修你要重點要講阿跟委員報告就是火力發電費用底下服務費用就全部是維修全部是維修你看你剛才提到就是有關於夜宣等等的大科目底下一到二"},{"start":6058.952,"end":6068.858,"text":"就是19案的時候才是啦那二跟三案他講的就是火力發電這個系統裡面的服務費用全部都是那個跟維修相關的一些費用"},{"start":6070.094,"end":6071.615,"text":"是真的是真的"},{"start":6099.015,"end":6111.509,"text":"你現在要選團 要選團 要燒不要燒 要很高不要很高那針對我的問題啊 就是我剛才講的事情 就是我們現在要維持電力穩定 所以我們必須要興建更多的天然氣機組繼續維持供電穩定 對繼續燒"},{"start":6116.134,"end":6120.581,"text":"天然氣機組不管是空牌或是碳牌都好很多"},{"start":6132.798,"end":6141.108,"text":"設備全部預算百分之一百通過還要鼓勵你們辛苦了趕快做做了你運轉還要保證喔還要運轉成功你才來拆 對不對我們就是這樣子都悲催的這樣配合"},{"start":6150.742,"end":6176.108,"text":"你不能說前面猜後面不猜誰擋得住主席會擋不住好不好以我台中火力化電廠來講你如果第二期完成你已經可以增加將近百分之四十三十五%多比你現在的還要多再加上民間的中央所以你要冷靜去思考你很有智慧的你一定要照承諾"},{"start":6177.108,"end":6182.324,"text":"拆真就是要拆不能我最不希望我一邊講一下不能"},{"start":6183.737,"end":6184.538,"text":"這部分我做這樣的決議"},{"start":6208.537,"end":6217.142,"text":"主席也當然要保持一定的韌性那現在一定要有韌性我們綜合李玉琳跟謝忻鳳的提案我們是凍結 你知道剛剛是說6億嘛那個 董事長那個書面報告凍結凍結6億提出書面報告的凍結我們繼續處理第4、第5"},{"start":6234.639,"end":6244.546,"text":"第4、第5,楊全英跟李玉琳的提案請台電說明跟委員報告這兩案也是一樣他是在輸電部門的檢修費用"},{"start":6252.745,"end":6253.305,"text":"所以我會提出我要給你"},{"start":6283.254,"end":6305.293,"text":"提出這個議題第一個電出來要紓配我們常常被人家說一隻蟑螂不然就是什麼鳥柱都說不講話高啦高雄是猴子啦我們的是老鼠啦不然還有那個小鳥啦你都是給那個理由是沒有辦法講話的"},{"start":6307.294,"end":6325.106,"text":"他沒有反駁你,我告訴你他有靈性,他有一天會給你反駁我跟你說這個是我不希望以後你該當怎樣就坦白講不要所有都沒有原因只有那個猴子那個什麼鳥啊還是什麼那個都是講那些動物啦"},{"start":6330.95,"end":6333.253,"text":"我真的不希望用這種理由去給民眾講"},{"start":6345.619,"end":6353.945,"text":"我們所擁有的建築物都要重新調配,讓它們的膠、尿素、膠都不能進去,因為有碰到問題就要解決問題,而不是說只有這樣就刷掉,我們是要真正的去討論你的輸配問題,所以這是第一個。"},{"start":6365.874,"end":6393.778,"text":"我希望就是說你們在輸配的這個部分你要怎麼樣進進方案不要再用那個不會講話他是會講話只是我們聽不懂他啦他也沒有辦法給人講話是沒有通而已啦其實他一定會知道很生氣怎麼可以這樣都講我老鼠鳥啊不然就松鼠不可以這樣子好所以呢這是第一個進進方案要出來"},{"start":6394.358,"end":6407.731,"text":"第二個,我要跟你探討一個問題。 你的維修,因為我們今天,我說台電的員工太辛苦了。 我們這次講好像又說霸凌的。 那個晚上兩三點。"},{"start":6409.578,"end":6410.479,"text":"中央政府總預算案"},{"start":6426.178,"end":6430.141,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":6446.335,"end":6452.098,"text":"但是我會顧他,我會說你為什麼沒有自己的經濟部,電視要怎樣,是不行的,好不容易有這個好的員工態度,要保護他安全可是現在據我聞,你們現在這種搶修人員的加班,加班你一點錢給人多少?"},{"start":6468.05,"end":6472.111,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司"},{"start":6489.076,"end":6501.859,"text":"律師出門喔律師出門從他律師事務所出來他就要計算時間喔到你開庭他從律師事務所出門他就算這樣我不敢說我們的員工這樣出門就要算但是你想不到一點點7-11也不是那個錢7-11的月薪也不是那個錢"},{"start":6515.523,"end":6535.412,"text":"那個不是加班費啦,那個是額外的津貼啦。我知道如果有同仁跟您反映,也有跟我反映的,我們該做的我們都會做。啊,怎麼做啊?一鍋真透明的菜,一百塊毛褲你敢買?不只啦,那個是額外的津貼,不是加班費,那個絕對不是加班費。但是我們有一個名字叫危險津貼啦。"},{"start":6537.552,"end":6543.737,"text":"你這個外國人要檢討嗎?我們有在檢討,就今年10月以後我講一個例子齁,中華一個國會長,我是不希望發生這樣的事情他一國五六萬,大概在30年前,大家也說齁,你餓了一百元就不去創業,自己借那些五六萬,我說你出店去"},{"start":6561.23,"end":6578.904,"text":"這個這麼危險的,不叫你透明,晚上風那麼大雨那麼大叫你來啊,叫你回去明天看你買不買,有的有吊拿捏,有的是沒吊拿捏,這麼危險,還有我們中小企業有一個石垃圾擺來擺去,電樓的這裡擺來擺去,它沒有一點是它這樣有石垃圾嚇到,我告訴你,結果那個國會聽到我說你們不要這樣講,它的危險性有多高,有一天,真的複雜。"},{"start":6590.843,"end":6591.503,"text":"馬上口語講什麼?說脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫脫"},{"start":6621.051,"end":6621.611,"text":"公司、台灣電力股份有限公司"},{"start":6645.891,"end":6652.537,"text":"在維修、搶救、隨時的你去檢討,你檢討說你目前的危險津貼,你到底多久以前所洩漏,到現在你也多久沒有去調整,沒理由沒調整啦,我跟你說,對不對?因為員工如果要說這個,他是很厭愛的,他今天就要臨台前,他才會再坐在那裡,他才會再說"},{"start":6669.312,"end":6670.352,"text":"我們要好好尊重人家,你要去盤點。"},{"start":6686.243,"end":6686.623,"text":"張宇峻"},{"start":6714.449,"end":6717.152,"text":"議案改成那個主決議了齁 主決議好 張佳俊 最後再請台電回答"},{"start":6723.195,"end":6749.946,"text":"主席謝謝我想要呼應一下楊瓊英委員的發言真的這些台電的在第一線的基礎人員非常非常的辛苦尤其是像今年有連續三個颱風那連續這三個颱風像以我們雲林為例我們有很多這個養雞啊養豬啊那像這個養雞他跳電之後他的雞沒有照燈他很多小雞就會死亡"},{"start":6750.586,"end":6765.078,"text":"所以這些台電的搶修人員其實他也很努力阿他又淋雨又刮風然後又危險然後晚上還不能回家睡覺說實在大家將心比心他們也都是有妻子有小孩"},{"start":6765.558,"end":6793.357,"text":"他的家人在家肯定也很擔心他在外面的安危所以我也同意呼應這個楊瓊英委員說這個危險加急甚至加班費台電這個董事長我想他是非常的愛心是不是能夠主動來提起說做一個檢討來照顧這些在第一線最辛苦的這些搶修人員那當然我也想在這裡也提一下就是像我們沿海"},{"start":6794.338,"end":6795.878,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案"},{"start":6813.283,"end":6813.463,"text":"請台電答覆"},{"start":6834.188,"end":6847.506,"text":"謝謝委員關心同仁的福利有關於福利的部分我們今年10月份事實上也調整了一次危險津貼當然也不是今天省預算大家才在關心大家平常都在關心尤其是颱風發生以後"},{"start":6849.068,"end":6865.737,"text":"所以其實我們今年10月份就已經做了一次調整這第一個部分那第二個部分是因為這個科目正好都是這些服務費用就是委員很關心我們停電相關的問題那其實這幾年來我們的輸電線路增加的量非常的多"},{"start":6866.437,"end":6870.441,"text":"同時它需要維護的量體變大所以我們的預算才會編列在這個地方也要請各位委員支持至於各個各別的地方怎麼樣檢討它能夠地下化要跟委員報告就是讓我們看實際在地的狀況"},{"start":6883.476,"end":6897.634,"text":"有些沿海地方就是你一滴下的話它就泡在水裡面因為那個地下水層比較高的尤其是在餘溫旁邊的這個是我們現在遇到的難題所以我們的改進方法是我們現在是要把它的線路跟電感強化"},{"start":6898.795,"end":6917.663,"text":"就是線路跳掉其實要修復很快啦現在是電感出狀況折掉那個就比較麻煩所以我們花很多時間在做這些相關的工作把它做一些具體的改善那至於水位比較高的可以有機會做地下化尤其是主幹線可能可以做到影響比較大的我們會優先檢討來做好請進一杯"},{"start":6924.157,"end":6950.709,"text":"謝謝主席我想請到董事長你剛就是說這個地下化的問題我跟你們報告一個狀況現在其實在市區非常多就是一摘屋一摘房就是那個地下化一下子高價一下子地下然後呢如果是因為無法克服那沒有話講可是不是沒有辦法克服不是沒有辦法克服是你們說沒有預算"},{"start":6952.213,"end":6954.214,"text":"中央政府總預算案"},{"start":6967.601,"end":6968.701,"text":"我就是要跟你討論這個就是說你們要把條件開出來"},{"start":6985.166,"end":7011.62,"text":"你懂意思嗎?就是說今天你要講說 今天你要報復可以嗎?可以提供嗎?要不然人家會說 那邊比較有力 這邊比較沒力嗎?不是嘛 就像你講的有很多的因素嘛 第一個有沒有配合款 第二個應該配合款是後面啦 應該是第一是你的變電箱 對 你的變電箱到底可不可以找到地方擺"},{"start":7013.153,"end":7035.294,"text":"然後你的限入的問題你要把條件開出來讓地方去克服然後再來如果這些克服完之後就是我們配合款地方配合款你把這些都舉出來如果地方沒辦法解決就沒你的事了現在不是啊現在全部壓到就是說就台電說沒錢"},{"start":7038.325,"end":7064.031,"text":"那這些錢要去哪裡?委員如果有具體的案件我們可以來說明因為中間有很多人在喘啊或怎麼樣最後都講說台電說沒錢我舉例來講我說需要配方配合的款也會變成台電說沒錢這個就會變成那如果說你們這個所謂市政府各縣市政府要配合的部分這個款項的比例你們有在明文規定嗎?"},{"start":7066.176,"end":7073.421,"text":"是多少?一半一半?在地下化要一半一半?為什麼要一半一半?"},{"start":7073.421,"end":7079.526,"text":"原來就一開始從頭到尾的規定,那不是我定的那為什麼要一半一半?"},{"start":7079.526,"end":7083.269,"text":"不是,當時候這麼定一半一半的意思是什麼?"},{"start":7083.269,"end":7086.191,"text":"因為幾年的水位呢?"},{"start":7086.191,"end":7087.372,"text":"現在電信建貨要一半一半?"},{"start":7089.421,"end":7103.302,"text":"你如果說8273那還有道理你那一半一半什麼人在政府那有可能把你開是你地下化是你在收的管線是你在收的米來電是你在收安捏 要什麼時候政府要配合"},{"start":7105.852,"end":7108.174,"text":"現在政府會不會要配合一半?"},{"start":7108.174,"end":7113.099,"text":"這到底在哪裡啊?"},{"start":7113.099,"end":7115.941,"text":"不是這個不合理啊?"},{"start":7115.941,"end":7123.528,"text":"這也是一個讓地方政府能夠有序地排出來哪些地方依照順序來做地下化的一些工作"},{"start":7124.569,"end":7131.032,"text":"如果他沒有不需要付出任何那當然這整個過程就會要求更多的case。 董事長我講的已經是說這幾招就是一定有打劫法阿外部打劫法呈現一個世貿非常奇怪的狀態阿你現在說這樣是知道"},{"start":7140.956,"end":7154.407,"text":"那種一定是少數啦,就是沒辦法做的才會這個樣子市政府你出一半,他覺得說他的這個有壓力而且因為是你地方在整個地下化的狀態,是你要收錢還是要出一半?這個有問題啊通常這種案子都已經是講好了要做,中間遇到人民陳抗等等的,市府也沒辦法才會卡住才會卡住,對"},{"start":7166.517,"end":7168.599,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":7182.543,"end":7183.444,"text":"為什麼?"},{"start":7183.444,"end":7193.269,"text":"我不曉得是在哪裡 有啊 就是有很多人家案場人家建設公司 人家配合的能夠使用到好的 你說人家說沒有那個架空庫你忙?"},{"start":7193.269,"end":7195.07,"text":"要不然你要撿到多少錢再多少錢?"},{"start":7195.07,"end":7206.076,"text":"你們為什麼不要一次剛剛好他在建設的當中 把它配合好把它作為規劃 那個建設我已經很多案子了啦 那種供電的通常都是建商啦"},{"start":7206.656,"end":7220.982,"text":"不是公共,如果是整個從話區一次做,我們不會這樣做,特別的監護來說,那個就是要股份。 不是啦,就是整個案場的部分,我覺得你們還是要去把這些原則去訂好了。 好,那個,大臣,你再找個時間詳細跟陳經理委員請他做一些說明,詳細齁,內容之後我們就處理喔。 好。"},{"start":7226.605,"end":7240.222,"text":"主席、鄭董事長我想還是要提醒最近幾次的颱風狀況其實從南部上來那就是上次那個山陀颱風就很嚴重從前鎮小港上來17級強風那個連那個貨櫃都被吹翻掉"},{"start":7242.725,"end":7256.946,"text":"甚至於連很多的那個便利商店整個被吹所以說但是偏偏我們前陣小港又是台電的重鎮就是小港有大林電廠前陣有南部火力發電廠所以我是覺得還是要請台電要持續的去重視這個問題就是說"},{"start":7259.169,"end":7285.001,"text":"電網的韌性怎麼樣把將這些發的電能夠穩定的輸送出去包括周邊的電力的部分我還希望台電能夠持續重視問題那特別是幾次的經驗下來真的南部有時候會遭遇到這種很特殊狀況下因為他進來的時候幾乎沒有遇到屏障幾乎整個直接進來你大概在台灣很難遇到有哪個地方遇到但東部有啦東部比較容易的那南大概只有南部會直接遇到這種直接進來然後17級的強風"},{"start":7286.522,"end":7286.822,"text":"第4案、第5案"},{"start":7306.418,"end":7328.012,"text":"這個大家都支持輸電費用,輸電費用很重要,那我們是不是試圖凍結啦,凍結五千萬啦,那那個停輸命報告之後死的凍死啦。好,那第六案,好,那第四案楊強英委員改組決議,"},{"start":7329.912,"end":7341.501,"text":"那第2案李永遠我們不在我們是照列第7案楊雄永遠楊雄永遠 還有你嗎?楊雄永遠 還有你嗎?對第7案要不要選下一個說明請台電先說明第7案"},{"start":7350.869,"end":7374.134,"text":"跟委員報告就是第7案管理費用的服務費用主要是我們做一些行政單位等等的一些管理的費用那委員是特別關心到就是有關於招考媒體報告那個報導那件事後來我們去澄清那個媒體報導裡面中間有一些有一些疏漏那當然我們辦理的一些國家考試阿等等台電還辦國營事業的"},{"start":7376.515,"end":7379.59,"text":"人員招考所以在考試這個部分我們一定會嚴謹處理"},{"start":7383.899,"end":7411.819,"text":"你還要怎麼解除?這個事情要怎麼解除?你再說一次委員關心到嘛,因為提案裡面寫到的是那個北市區處的狀況那個其實也不是工會幹部啦也不是什麼帶著人家進去看考場啦我們有去針對這個事件不管什麼身份有提出問題你們要去把他瞭解嘛對不對?有,就是有瞭解才跟委員報告"},{"start":7415.542,"end":7436.262,"text":"因為行政院的那個平台要具名,人家邱太陽我前天跟他討論,他說如果沒有具名的,如果有市政的,我們一樣接受。不管說他要工會,他什麼人啊。 是工會被指控,不是工會指控。 對啊。"},{"start":7444.382,"end":7456.332,"text":"委員關心到主要是有關於考試那個部分考試這個東西的公平性一向就大家都非常的重視那這一個部分其實已經是到一個這跟題目什麼都沒關了就是說考場"},{"start":7457.293,"end":7485.416,"text":"能不能漸進去看的事情那後來我們也澄清我們也澄清這個是並不是如媒體報導這樣中間有一點點落差那我要請委員能夠提案因為我們其實要辦理這種人員增市阿等等相關的費用其實是不是能夠這個管理費用的這個底下的錢能夠讓我們維持這個真的是很重要啦因為他佔整個公司的他佔整個公司的支出比例其實相對低要做的工作並不少"},{"start":7486.657,"end":7515.389,"text":"不管預算多少齁重點是在為什麼人家會這樣稱情我在care的是這個因為預算是你們編的你們編的一定是有救的你們才會編這個預算你不可能腦子有洞編一個不足的預算送到立法院來給我們審嘛 對不對那所以本學要討論的不是他的預算多少而是為什麼人家會提出這樣的爭議包括你剛才說的你的考試的考場啊怎麼樣"},{"start":7516.249,"end":7521.879,"text":"好,我們查得很好,沒這個事,沒這個事你做高級主管的人,你要去找我,誰會幫你擋空?"},{"start":7527.23,"end":7532.414,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":7553.772,"end":7557.053,"text":"其實我看到公司的治理最恐怖的是什麼?"},{"start":7557.053,"end":7574.678,"text":"沒東西說到有東西 這個裡面貓膩就很糟糕了喔 對不對 你如果真的查了啊 真的有問題啊 我們就改善就OK了 你現在查不到原因人家就把你弄 到底什麼意思 聲東擊西 是我最怕的 對不對 你要再說一下嗎?"},{"start":7576.114,"end":7594.918,"text":"委員我這樣說就是有關於這一個部分的工作我們當然當場就請人事去關心了啦那我主管也都去了解那如果我這樣講就做不足的細節我們都會請同仁改進都會請同仁改進因為這國會的事盡量不要發生這問題我及其委員會委員會說這樣我們運動來講你知道你這會走運動怎麼會有關係運動要改啊對不對 是這樣要怎麼辦"},{"start":7603.769,"end":7619.757,"text":"就是講簡單一點就是會被誤會的事我們就排除啦比方說你這一些像說什麼進考場等等的或者是同仁有去反應我們就儘快做回應不要讓他事情講出來講到就歪掉"},{"start":7621.178,"end":7644.818,"text":"因為無中的能夠會摸到這麼大片 這比有的更恐怖這是我認為在看治理管理的方面 那所以這樣子啦第7案你這樣說明我本來是要簡略啦 那沒關係大家加油但是我也要請你們精進方案要順便資料給本席好不好 就該主席去討論"},{"start":7648.181,"end":7648.622,"text":"第9案依奉"},{"start":7676.365,"end":7676.525,"text":"第9案改組決議"},{"start":7697.889,"end":7706.418,"text":"我的第10案是服務費用、修理保養與保固費、配電的費用所以一共編列了71億8610萬但是根據台電的評估過去10年"},{"start":7717.728,"end":7743.745,"text":"六度及新竹用戶用戶數的成長13.25%但是虧欠才增加5.05那我覺得這個地方要增強啊這個是應該你們要改進的虧欠要加強,新竹也很重要你發電出來沒有虧欠發電也不到嘛所以這表示你們動作有一點落後了啊在這一方面我想到一點問題啊"},{"start":7745.066,"end":7748.931,"text":"全都投資那一邊,我們這個財政措施法分法也建議要修改一下。"},{"start":7761.826,"end":7786.568,"text":"我們今天會議都說你去台電去應對這幾個六度底啊,我們整個要會議到最後我是討論的,想到這個問題,我們不會反對,你的虧欠一定要趕快適度加強另外剛剛談到地下化,我只拜託一件事情,你台電也不是我的錢啦,你現在是負債累累,你一直在排斥說不要講台電沒有錢,你們真的沒有錢"},{"start":7787.549,"end":7810.005,"text":"不然你就不用要到一千億兩千億要國會通過來支援你們我們面對事實這不是你們錯這是十幾年啊我們能演政策的大錯誤把你們壓得不能喘氣其實你們很優秀我相信各位都能提到你們到這一點所以我看今天的預算大家也沒有準備要把你們三錢準備給你們好好發揮在"},{"start":7812.246,"end":7836.488,"text":"關於地下化我希望這樣地方有沒有開闢道路有需要申請地下化你們一定要配合這一點你做到就很不錯了我是很確實的講出來關於大家談到地下化地方如果以那個道路裡面在做水高要安裝有沒有地下化你們一定要配合因為這個很重要"},{"start":7837.569,"end":7856.211,"text":"不然你前面地下化非常的困難在重要的地方需要的地方地方覺得這個可以把四農整個改觀的地方麻煩你們全力配合一下不要說我沒有錢你剛剛講不能講台電沒有錢我曉得你們很有錢錢還是很多啦可以做的啦"},{"start":7857.331,"end":7866.174,"text":"那個土建如果地方政府在開闢道路等等就一次做我們都優先做,我們會優先做委員會議是我們一定會執行的。陳昌明委員11號改成陳昌明委員改主席那議員召列"},{"start":7885.16,"end":7897.128,"text":"十三案的部分我們在議程照列十三案的部分邱毅英委員好十三案改組決議十四案改組決議好十五案請說明臺電請說明"},{"start":7907.165,"end":7922.338,"text":"好那個跟委員報告這續航進教其實在1996年就開始執行到現在這很久了主要是說我們最兼載的發電費用可能最高就是我們要開小的發電機它成本最高那如果可以不要開我們就"},{"start":7922.998,"end":7949.817,"text":"通過需量增加的方式讓用電戶減少用電不要去用掉那個編輯上最貴的發電設備那在這個方式上面我們會給他一定的優惠所以這個方式坦白講我們這幾年雖然預算有變但是我們也都很認真的在遵節支出可是預算就是要變因為他會跟著整個供電情勢在變化是不是能夠請委員支持我們就是對於這個整個"},{"start":7951.818,"end":7976.011,"text":"就是需要競價等等的一些工作能夠遵節支出然後讓我們提書面報告這樣啊你們這個每一年也都剩餘很多啊跟委員報告齁 對不對當然你們有餘啊但是剩餘蠻多的啊我們預算編著就是有的時候真的是因應不時之需啊我知道啦 剛剛我也說啦因為你歷年比如說去年啊那個總經理幾年這樣用多少"},{"start":7978.86,"end":7998.182,"text":"因為你有收就有支啊 你支就不用支那麼多啊 你就收這樣起來 不然說一直付錢一直付錢 你2億多其實這一個部分我是看到啦 我們自己的今年預算編列自己就先減了啦"},{"start":7999.083,"end":7999.244,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":8021.344,"end":8035.858,"text":"因為這個包括了整個你這一部預算啊收支要怎麼去平衡啊 對不對你就沒必要變開那麼多因為實際你開不去啊你把它佔在這裡啊你每天就賣不開啊 對不對是不是這樣 對不對你也要看整體性的會計啊"},{"start":8046.266,"end":8056.249,"text":"請說明去年市場而已嘛對不對那個跟委員報告那個去年的質疑率是這樣所以所以每一年都是這樣啊大約啊2023年啦齁2024年我們編8億今年只編4億啦所以我們其實自己減了"},{"start":8064.465,"end":8091.08,"text":"我們自己已經檢了我跟委員報告真的我自己有檢你講的要檢討我也檢討所以是不是可以請委員支持我們我們可以把這個東西做書面報告跟委員做報告好啦你給他檢列一百萬這樣就好啦這個其實我檢列這個是要告訴你們因為有很多的預算你們沒有編進來需要用的不編阿沒需要你要放那個我擺爛的怎麼可以好不好那個一樣是專業服務費齁那個"},{"start":8092.856,"end":8092.876,"text":"15萬減100萬請說明"},{"start":8106.24,"end":8133.259,"text":"好那個16案我們主要是做那個因為委員關心的是我們對於整個未來的用電的需求那我們其實對運電需求都基本上我們從過去從用GDP成長率的估算方法演變到高用電戶額外加計的計算方法其實已經做了很多的調整所以我要跟委員報告就是說這一個部分就是研究方案費用"},{"start":8133.739,"end":8150.324,"text":"是不是能夠給我們支持這樣子尤其是這個牽涉到未來的一些電源開發還用電型態等等的一些相關的做法還有包括那個電能管理智慧化等等一些相關工作是不是可以讓我們來執行這個費用謝謝主席陽泉發言董事長的說明我們聽到了智能電表現在市佔率多少"},{"start":8162.788,"end":8190.688,"text":"現在300萬戶啦 對不對跟你們預期的呢那個跟委員報告戶數雖然300萬戶就兩成但是我的用電涵蓋範圍已經超過七成就是那個電量我可以管你的電量用電量已經超過我不知道你的表情是都是一種這種表情你講什麼都在笑我們的心急如魂你都在笑我是在我都不敢正視你"},{"start":8192.591,"end":8217.53,"text":"因為你只有300萬戶台灣總共多少萬戶?兩成你只有兩成兩成你滿意嗎?如果你依照你的KPI你應該是不滿意啦沒有KPI我沒有達成我們的KPI啦對啊那你沒有達成你的KPI我都要轉過來看記者了你沒有達成你的KPI你都可以笑這個當然情緒性我們不要我們直接來討論"},{"start":8222.313,"end":8250.432,"text":"第一個,你自己所研議的方案達不到你的KPI,次長在這裡沒有委員我有達成KPI,剛剛我說我有達成KPI第二個我跟你說,你說你研究發展的費用好,研究發展的費用你要研究我用高的低的怎麼樣怎麼樣都對這個大家很辛苦所以以往我們都全力支持但是支持一段時間預算我們會去看你的成效是怎麼樣"},{"start":8252.654,"end":8270.087,"text":"我們每一年都一直在鼓勵一直在鼓勵那但是呢就是說你研發你的電力的來源到目前為止跟你自己所研發的那個落差是都達到還是落差很大還是差不多我想來聽一下"},{"start":8270.816,"end":8284.188,"text":"那個智慧電表的安裝率事實上是按照目標在進行不是智慧電表就是研發你能源的來源你電力的來源你怎麼樣去省電也好還是電力的配置也好"},{"start":8286.295,"end":8288.976,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":8305.685,"end":8315.26,"text":"2050年的時候沒有碳嘛所以中間我們需要一些技術的發展譬如說我要如何把原來天然氣的這個燒天然氣的那個部分我要再加清"},{"start":8316.311,"end":8343.187,"text":"把清的比例慢慢拉高這是第一個我們要研究第二個就是說CCS也是一樣也是我們要研究的一個範疇再來比如說地熱也是它會結構這些東西都是我們在發展再生電源過程當中需要克服的一些困難這個是其中一個方向第二個方向就是穩定供電我的電廠比如說在經營的時候那如何確保它那個鍋爐破管"},{"start":8345.128,"end":8347.31,"text":"12月18日及19日二天一次會議12月18日及19日二天一次會議"},{"start":8374.709,"end":8389.601,"text":"謝謝董事長,謝謝總經理的說明。葉片的部分,你說要讓它不要破損,不管你是民營的來協助也好,那這個在國際在研議上面都必須跟國際接軌,這個似乎會比較輕鬆一點。"},{"start":8394.505,"end":8418.985,"text":"因為國際的研議他們的使用年限都比我們跑得更快當然不是後面的人就沒有更精進的方案只是我們有所依歸你會比較研議方面會怎麼樣精進它的成效一定會比較好那講到2050年其中有一個最重要的現在說2034年五美我們前"},{"start":8420.411,"end":8442.705,"text":"上個禮拜天每一年固定不管議事公會不管我們的這個環境環團團體這一些他每一年都會在台中市政府外面民眾大家會聚集去表示公民參政的一個權益他們會去表示他們的內容我們計算了"},{"start":8444.186,"end":8456.331,"text":"計算了如果依照目前政府告訴我們的怎麼樣爭氣包括剛剛總經理所說的這些方案那似乎那這個數字我們所需要的"},{"start":8459.209,"end":8480.997,"text":"我們應該是在2028年要五美所以那一天禮拜天我們在台中市政府的廣場我們的訴求就是2028年五美人民公民團團、醫醫師公會等都有提出這樣子的一個論述所以我也非常的希望董事長在這邊針對實際務實的數字"},{"start":8485.56,"end":8514,"text":"告訴民眾因為環團這一些公民參政已經有提出2028五美的台灣那我們政府在研議的部分有沒有幫我納入在這裡面這是我今天提的最重要的一個議題因為當天我跟羅天惠委員我們也都表達2028五美大家都簽署"},{"start":8514.7,"end":8540.555,"text":"所以既然民間團體已經提出政府部門在9億多沒有理由不將這個訊息去納入你們研議的這個方案我再次強調我們2028五美的這個論述是依照中華民國政府告訴我們的目前你們的能源來源以及目前執行中不管是蒸汽等等的方案我們實際的數字去計算出來"},{"start":8542.236,"end":8553.926,"text":"所以這個就是真正的理性討論我也希望董事長你要答應把你在9億6千多的這個預算你在研議研究方案裡頭必須要納入我們2028五美的這個議題好不好我們一起來幫助我們台灣嘛好不好下一位那個這是黑羽"},{"start":8568.248,"end":8586.637,"text":"謝謝主席那現在在討論到整個16案那是涉及到的一些台電針對這些發電的一個技術那我想要提醒台電一件事因為現在我們知道在光電的部分有很多早期的合約"},{"start":8587.817,"end":8604.305,"text":"就是說可能早期定了20年那他的一個合約已經都已經陸續到了要到期的時候那到期之後當然有可能他們會希望再展演那我想台電應該跟人員局去思考件事就是說因為早期的太陽冷的一個發電"},{"start":8605.899,"end":8629.551,"text":"這個光電板它的發電量跟現在的光電板它的技術的程式不一樣所以如果現在可以把早期的光電板汰換成現在發電量比較高的那這樣的話是不是有助於未來整體光電的發電量同樣的一個時間的效率下它可以發更多電那所以早期的這樣光電板它如果要繼續要"},{"start":8631.912,"end":8650.478,"text":"有一個新約還是說你們會怎麼合作我不知道但是我們應該在政策上應該要去要求他們如果要續約要繼續要用短壽電價賣給台電的話他們的光電板必須要換成效率更好的光電板好那這一點我希望台電可以去注意謝謝"},{"start":8653.905,"end":8662.728,"text":"那個等供合約應該到期要換新約啦換新約我想依照能源署未來長期的規劃那個設備在同樣的地點應該都要換新的設備謝謝委員好那個16號是楊委員提案楊委員你的要改"},{"start":8673.433,"end":8690.001,"text":"有關於那個前面那一題我這樣講就是關於怎麼樣子持續的檢探檢美等等的工作台電本來就是剛才提到的我們總經理說明到說這研究的項目裡面包括加薪包括做CCS等等其實都是為這些方向在做努力"},{"start":8692.912,"end":8693.012,"text":"主席"},{"start":8723.272,"end":8723.393,"text":"18日及19日"},{"start":8742.838,"end":8762.273,"text":"這個18案的部分因為核能發電的部分那因為核三廠25年5月17要除役了那邊列這麼多公關費的部分我建議著於簡略來董事長說明一下請台電說明來我們請那個我可不可以請核能副總直接跟您說明來請"},{"start":8764.167,"end":8787.054,"text":"報告委員,因為除非要是這個公關慰勞費主要是用在就是地方的外界的一些紅白鐵啦或者是住院慰問這一塊因為電廠廚藝可是服務的對外服務這一塊其實是比較沒有空間要繼續做啦簡單就是繼續做大概我目前的方向大概這樣"},{"start":8788.38,"end":8792.383,"text":"所以除役了但是要繼續做?"},{"start":8792.383,"end":8797.366,"text":"對 還有處理工作 公關慰問費這些錢是用在紅白鐵?"},{"start":8797.366,"end":8813.116,"text":"對 主要在地方還有一些地方人士住院的一些慰問金的這一塊差不多只有174萬 差不多175萬左右那我改凍結50%好不好 你們把提一些說明報告再行解凍 是"},{"start":8815.938,"end":8830.003,"text":"18萬,沒有動靜50萬,動靜50萬啦不是啊,動50萬好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦改組決議啦改組決議好啦楊卓宜你講啦改組決議改組決議是改組決議齁這天我跟你說你也要聽一年齁這陣容發廢啦我們會那個啦"},{"start":8842.076,"end":8842.897,"text":"報告主席,可以發言了嗎?"},{"start":8842.897,"end":8844.538,"text":"19案談的是這個福費用裡面的媒體政策跟業務宣傳費"},{"start":8870.927,"end":8887.363,"text":"我本來提案要檢列2500萬那這個案子有兩個大的問題一個就是之前有鬧出這個臺電把250萬用這個限制型的這個標案給了週一口的這個網路媒體"},{"start":8892.26,"end":8901.952,"text":"所以等一下如果有處理這個就是說以後不能再發生這種事情你要怎麼去杜絕不能變成說拿台電的人民納稅錢去養民進黨的側翼"},{"start":8905.006,"end":8919.293,"text":"這個要解決一個方案那第二個我知道 等一下 抗議一下什麼叫民進黨撤移 這個要抗議啦 周玉蔻跟民進黨不能這樣講 他沒有幫你們嗎 不是 你不能這樣講啦 周玉蔻有可能會對你抗議喔 我們也要對抗議 如果玉蔻不能講 那是民進黨撤移應該講什麼 不要把人家隨便扣上"},{"start":8925.236,"end":8931.518,"text":"昨天有個人主理 民進討論 那就讓社會去公平啦 是民進黨側翼還是說他是幫民進黨很重要的媒體人所以這筆錢就是以後不能再發生這種限制型的標案這是第一個 那第二個事實上這筆費用到了這個"},{"start":8948.576,"end":8969.184,"text":"草野協商、政黨協商我相信一定我也比其他各個單位的統三所以我會同意就是如果不用檢列的這個方式如果其他張家俊也沒有意見陳昌明也沒有意見我就把他改成先凍結2500萬然後你提出總之避免再發生座右擴這個事件到時候我們再來解凍好不好把檢列變成是凍結"},{"start":8972.017,"end":8972.337,"text":"是提書面報告嗎?"},{"start":8972.337,"end":8990.114,"text":"是提書面報告嗎?好,可以。你給我一個書面報告。 就是書面報告嘛。就是書面報告嘛。 20案是神超民視測案。 那家俊在不在?家俊不在。 那你那個張旗桿,你的提案多少?"},{"start":8990.114,"end":8990.134,"text":"來,楊君。"},{"start":8994.395,"end":9010.301,"text":"請我講話有有有來謝謝主席楊卓英不是主席是一名的求職委我是這樣子建議啦因為大家都非常的關心因為台電以前光光寄一個那個"},{"start":9013.143,"end":9034.878,"text":"這一點是我給台電這個肯定啦因為我上次看他就寄一個信喔就要五六百萬啦就那個紙本啦那因為我們都要減對我們都要紙本少紙化所以我們就逐步這個部分就減少我就很高興所以因為這樣高興我就有再進步"},{"start":9035.518,"end":9047.923,"text":"因為現在本來就是不能砍樹,那個要少子化,一直鼓勵大家嘛,所以現在這個額度一直在減,所以我認為這個4500萬,我是這樣建議大家聽聽看啦,我認為不要動那麼多啦,動1000萬,然後報告後使得動資,這樣子。"},{"start":9057.887,"end":9072.157,"text":"我不知道我的提議能不能得到各位同仁的支持。 主席是富裕,也蠻中肯的啦。 有啦,楊瓊、楊偉有在肯定台電的付出。 我也知道台電這個宣傳跟廣告上面,他在那個節電那一塊也做得很不錯啦。 這樣好不好?"},{"start":9073.718,"end":9084.066,"text":"要一千萬齁,我們這個凍結一千萬提出書面報告時﹖凍一千你只要﹖啊﹖書面報告啊﹖報告後你就可以凍屍﹖書面報告時﹖我這邊講啦,我這邊講﹖不是你們講﹖我這個﹖好﹖這個﹖你聽主委﹖處長有話講是吧﹖你要改組決議嗎﹖"},{"start":9099.526,"end":9123.713,"text":"你只要把書面就剛講什麼杜傑做一關的事件在發生來 凍結一千萬提出書面報告只要你書面來就解凍好不好我這邊宣布好不好主委來這邊宣布提出這個凍結一千萬提出書面報告使得凍失二十二案天文不再照列二十三案這是通案通案是最後一起處理還是怎麼樣因為是七千六百"},{"start":9126.256,"end":9144.929,"text":"七千六百你凍結一趴的話就凍結七十六億阿主席因為是那個林倩琦委員 我在因為阿主席最後再處理阿因為他有去經濟委員會我們幫他提請他給他說明一下嘛但是說明沒關係但是最後處理啦因為通話是最後處理來請林委員"},{"start":9147.697,"end":9165.542,"text":"張偉還有各位經濟委員會的同仁大家好這一案是因為我們一直對於台電的一些儲存的貨料的危險性跟它的消耗性還有它的效度有一些疑慮但是業務單位在說明的時候很可愛但是就是在我們提出來的相對的內容裡面"},{"start":9175.584,"end":9192.467,"text":"在資金的處理上還有那個周轉率我覺得相關單位可能在這個部分一直在說明上不是很精確所以我們最後達成的協議就是說在凍結的部分當然我這邊是一趴啦當然最後就尊重"},{"start":9193.447,"end":9216.353,"text":"經濟委員會的一個處理但是很重要就是這個書面我們在溝通的過程當中所提出來的書面的相關報告因為他們也來不及處理跟準備所以在書面給予我們後續的補足這個部分我是相對比較堅持的我建議你這個檯面是不是跟林建新委員約時間詳細就他關心的事項詳細做一個說明"},{"start":9220.214,"end":9223.036,"text":"有關備品管理的部分我們會被其書面的資料向委員說明"},{"start":9243.364,"end":9261.201,"text":"因為這個是最後才要討論,講到備品的部分,我本是要一個資料,因為台電負責這麼多,都垃圾在外面,外面這麼怕命,賣這麼多菇,我經常在說的,你賣這麼多菇,這個外面實在說,真的很辛苦,所以你"},{"start":9264.764,"end":9277.526,"text":"你們主管人要去怎麼樣開源節流你們的備品、您的農耗耗損率到底是多少?您應該要去總經理在這裡,您應該要去盤點您什麼東西,您的5年有多少?因為這很清楚的一件事情現在連農業"},{"start":9290.789,"end":9293.79,"text":"現在很多廠商的工廠就是我們的儲存廠、我們的倉庫。"},{"start":9316.437,"end":9333.774,"text":"學學王永慶先生、台塑他們的備品耗損率每一年一直低降你只要把這個當成一個課題你去盤點你所有的廠商你的工廠就是我的"},{"start":9335.305,"end":9359.659,"text":"我的成果第一個可以減少交這個運費第二個我們現在電腦資訊很方便我每天一直走一直走一星期每一天備容量你的時間需不需要保存那麼長因為第三個你如果持續依照以往的方式你要再去做成果"},{"start":9360.439,"end":9369.224,"text":"你還有管理人員那這些也都是在你的成本所以我覺得你們高級主管就是你要怎麼樣"},{"start":9371.019,"end":9396.209,"text":"開源要怎麼樣節流目前開源似乎有限那你的節原應該會對你們會多少有一些幫助而且我們如果依照舊的方式這樣子一持續不去精進我們台電公司是一間這麼大間牽絆的公司我們也會被人家嚇慌 對不對你拿有成功的企業他們的方式"},{"start":9397.649,"end":9424.316,"text":"包括現在很多的物流體系都已經在我們自己的工廠裡面的這個倉庫裡頭這樣在做所以你的耗損一定可以減少一定可以減少我希望你這個齁你們就是也書面資料一份給本席啦看你們要目前的狀態是怎樣啊你要怎麼去改啊有什麼種啊你的KPI改了可以增進多少"},{"start":9425.496,"end":9430.843,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":9442.455,"end":9442.615,"text":"主席"},{"start":9459.918,"end":9480.356,"text":"我知道我知道 二十四案政制委員不在我們就照列 報告委員會因為今天天氣很冷 而且又喝兩杯咖啡 喝兩杯咖啡大家休息五分鐘好不好 因為這些官員都沒有離席 我們休息一下五分鐘"},{"start":9787.338,"end":9794.444,"text":"好,我們繼續開會來,我們繼續處理25跟26來,25跟26陳昌明、張契凱的提案好,提案委員不在,我們照列27、28、29、30、31、32、33、33、27到32先請台電總統說明27到32"},{"start":9816.38,"end":9836.121,"text":"跟委員報告二期到三的主要這一個項目是火力發電裡面的燃料費用那包含天然氣跟燃煤那這幾年來事實上我們整個燃煤跟燃氣的使用趨勢是這樣燃煤的使用量事實上是陸續在下降"},{"start":9836.741,"end":9853.579,"text":"那因為要因應現在用電的成長所以燃氣的部分會有所成長那基本上就台電的大方向來講就是在穩定供電的前提之下我們還是朝向減碳的方式來做電力調度要請"},{"start":9868.917,"end":9869.558,"text":"本期提案3.20%"},{"start":9880.589,"end":9881.13,"text":"我提出簡略的這個"},{"start":9897.864,"end":9921.177,"text":"五百億這個跟剛剛楊瓊英、楊偉銘提的這個額度大概是差不多的重點這裡面有幾個重點啦當然不要再燒不要再燃煤這是國家既定的政策嘛對不對無碳這是一定要走的所以我們要盡量貫徹特別我要提醒上個月啊因為那個河山廠的二號機不是"},{"start":9922.952,"end":9927.629,"text":"稅休嘛齁那時候我們台灣就是非核家園了就那時候出現了啦"},{"start":9929.369,"end":9932.67,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9958.874,"end":9959.054,"text":"張艾俊"},{"start":9989.309,"end":10013.634,"text":"我是31案就是我檢列的當然是可能比較少但我贊同就是張其凱委員跟楊瓊英委員就是檢列250億然後因為這個案子是有關於就是跟中國有點關係所以這是廖偉祥委員請我代替的所以也希望說台電也可以向廖偉祥委員就是做一個說明謝謝"},{"start":10018.007,"end":10027.116,"text":"來 等一下 那個這位 柳亭偉 柳亭偉 柳亭偉之後就要處理了"},{"start":10037.216,"end":10062.398,"text":"好 其實我們都是中部的 那都會影響到 那基本上呢 31案跟瓊瑛委員的這一案 30案 我們都是希望能夠有簡略 那大幅度的簡略購買預算以上 那我想至少要250億以上 那以上報告好 那個 等一下 來接下來請那個 陳理會 陳理會之後那個邱瑩"},{"start":10066.877,"end":10089.425,"text":"這個購買預算的這個部分我覺得這個我們現在已經在能源整個非常重要的關鍵去刪這個預算我不知道用意為何因為如果刪了之後到時候又說沒有辦法有足夠的這個供電的一些動能那該怎麼辦"},{"start":10090.325,"end":10100.797,"text":"所以我覺得我們好像似乎沒有辦法這樣去負責這麼大的一個壓力所以我還是認為應該要遠列所有的預算"},{"start":10106.015,"end":10112.998,"text":"我本來是要問一下你們那個購煤的量有比往年增加嗎?減少所以你這個預算數其實也是減少的嗎?減少了將近300億如果我們再往下壓呢?跟委員報告我們今年其實對不起因為要統達啦是不是那個"},{"start":10136.505,"end":10143.313,"text":"剛剛楊瓊英委員有問嘛,你要不要就...我們一次統答好嗎?各位請正統一次,一次答覆,一次答覆"},{"start":10148.41,"end":10165.788,"text":"有關於燃料的部分,就是剛才章節海委員提到的,他那個簡列251區全部就是含燃氣和燃煤所以這個規模要先對稱,這是第一個部分第二個部分有關燃煤用量的部分,113年就今年的預算是2500萬噸"},{"start":10168.391,"end":10181.469,"text":"到明年的預算是2200萬噸差了300萬噸我們已經開始往下減預算金額也差了將近300億所以我們其實已經自己先減跟委員報告"},{"start":10184.924,"end":10189.807,"text":"我們已經先減了300億,減量也減了300萬噸減500億的規模就減掉了一半,那個是完全無法執行的委員你的預算數是4073億"},{"start":10210.93,"end":10215.273,"text":"國內的供電穩定是台電的義務我們現在加緊在做這些工作過去這幾年也是減煤減得最顯著的幾年我向委員報告"},{"start":10242.429,"end":10243.37,"text":"是減少的?"},{"start":10243.37,"end":10243.39,"text":"是。"},{"start":10253.695,"end":10258.478,"text":"主席 主席發言一下 這個4703億包括藍企跟藍煤 我們主要是針對藍煤的部分嘛 煤的部分是1051億嘛 對 因為你們已經減了300萬噸了嘛 是 相當於金額是多少錢"},{"start":10278.319,"end":10282.102,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":10305.882,"end":10333.392,"text":"章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家俊跟廖偉祥的案子31案章家"},{"start":10334.147,"end":10357.568,"text":"不是啦,這是解決我什麼意義嘛也要看我的啊我是看你的提案,我是建議嘛大家來討論一下來討論一下不是看同仁啦,來這樣啦,我們效果是什麼"},{"start":10363.661,"end":10366.363,"text":"那個...不然20%我們做不過啦..."},{"start":10390.819,"end":10391.26,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10403.408,"end":10403.728,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":10425.7,"end":10426.161,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10446.54,"end":10446.8,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10471.889,"end":10472.57,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10492.426,"end":10493.167,"text":"委員會主席委員會長"},{"start":10539.537,"end":10544.96,"text":"好!好!來!好!來!主席給我講一下啦!"},{"start":10547.128,"end":10547.188,"text":"主席"},{"start":10566.098,"end":10593.582,"text":"我就來處理主席各位同仁我要講一下邱瑞文首選區有一個興達電廠我的選區有兩個大林電廠跟南部火力發電廠都是火力的我們比大家都更希望整個改善空污我們比大家都更希望但是有一點還是要請大家考慮到就是說現在他們已經減掉了300億努力在減了但是缺電是大家無法接受的所以如果再這樣下去而且"},{"start":10594.242,"end":10622.407,"text":"燃煤跟火力現在又是主力了大家可能已經沒有了那火力是主力那如果燃煤又涉及到一些國家安全的問題我們如果再這樣撿下去的話如果讓台電是將來有面臨到缺電的問題的時候你們又要罵了大家又要罵了全民又要罵所以我是建議這個真的請大家可以凍結但是不要刪我相信他們已經盡了最大努力他們已經自己刪掉了300億了那我們如果再給他刪的話我希望用凍結的方式那請他們繼續改善但是保留一點點彈性給他們"},{"start":10628.111,"end":10650.95,"text":"主席就是凍結然後專案報告啦就是說不要說那個用專案報告他要再凍製的話為什麼還要再凍製這些錢好不好我的意見跟那一種的一致沒有沒有沒有事實上這筆預算我們要求要整理在裡面也是希望說都用一些遞證在身那邊今天沒有共識我們最後再來處理啦最後再來處理今天先出去其他行"},{"start":10652.771,"end":10679.387,"text":"二十七案到三十二我們等到最後再處理來三十三、三十四啊來蔡宇宇不在我們照列三十四議員改組決議三十五啊這個主席改組決議那三十六經費太奇怪了對他要增加預算"},{"start":10680.858,"end":10701.414,"text":"事案16請說明根委員報告,輔助服務費用主要是電網穩定的相關費用其實在再生能源滲透率越高的時候輔助服務等等相關的費用就會增加所以這個部分原則上是這樣我們會編列但我們也會遵截使用"},{"start":10702.849,"end":10711.413,"text":"什麼叫電網穩定的服務就是我們要維持電網的頻率啦就是因為它的供需要能夠在同一個量上面差距大就會讓頻率變好那這個不是都是整個都是電腦化科技化的一個數據控制嗎對所以這個要工具這個是科技化你這個是要買工具還是要用人還是要怎麼樣你沒有寫清楚啊你到底是怎麼樣"},{"start":10730.02,"end":10734.681,"text":"我希望那個報告主席齁這個我要那個凍結一千萬齁然後書面報告時的通知"},{"start":10753.094,"end":10753.914,"text":"36案凍結36案凍結36案凍結36案凍結36案凍結36案凍結36案凍結"},{"start":10780.363,"end":10800.74,"text":"來那個要不要台電說明一下 台電請說明火力火力發電費用主要是就是所有的火力相關的一些費用然後當然最主要的費用是來自於燃料費他最主要來自燃料費又剛才前面檢案審查的時候是審查各種那個就是"},{"start":10802.223,"end":10820.843,"text":"預算的類型那現在是審查系統就是火力的部分那這裡面包含了火力等等相關的總體的費用都在裡面那委員關心的是說我們能源結構的調整那我我們未來當然是要朝向近臨那在火力發電的部分"},{"start":10821.944,"end":10835.238,"text":"目前這個階段我們的方向是因為要因應我們用電成長的高速成長我們基本上是用空污跟那個碳排比較少的天然氣來補足目前的供電的需求"},{"start":10837.455,"end":10866.466,"text":"我再問一下你們現在的那個火力發電的整個量還是到八成以上那燃煤跟燃氣的比例上面有在做一些調節嗎現在就是燃氣會一直提高燃煤會下降一直下降會下降到什麼樣的2025年那個2025年燃煤應該可以降到30%左右不會再增加會比今年再更低2024年再更低"},{"start":10867.742,"end":10882.223,"text":"因為跟委員報告就會牽涉到用電量啦齁就這個用電量最後邊際增加多少他其實帶動了我一定是再生能源先他河山二號機現在在運轉他也是優先然後接下來是燃氣會優先最後是燃煤"},{"start":10884.362,"end":10886.343,"text":"事實案談的是智慧電表啦剛剛已經有提過嘛,普及力還不夠嘛"},{"start":10901.412,"end":10928.968,"text":"剛才楊瓊、楊偉在說 文森美思、達成都缺了一批那300萬戶真的太少 趕快加強這是一個第二個還有兩個大的問題 是現行這個電表啊 這個立法院的預算中心就是說 現在出新聞他提出來說現行電表出廠的時候沒有內建通信這個模組 所以他需要現場去安裝導致安裝的過程啊耗費大量的人力跟時間且因為現場這個有環境的限制增加了執行難度"},{"start":10930.009,"end":10945.996,"text":"此外啊 這個智慧電表雖然具有這個遠端的這個讀表這個功能但是缺乏遠端程式更新的能力必須由人員現場逐一去更新所以我請我們先凍結這部分的預算然後請提出來趕快怎麼改善提出來之後"},{"start":10947.176,"end":10965.529,"text":"各位報告您關心的問題我們已經解決了我要跟您報告就是因為是之前啦我們今年已經陸陸續續解決了我們現在拔內建了我們把書面報告我可不可以提書面報告改到什麼程度啊要給我具體的好不好先凍結然後改完之後就解凍這筆預算"},{"start":10968.831,"end":10969.351,"text":"42案事實上是幫我們辛苦的基層的"},{"start":10994.532,"end":11017.451,"text":"臺電的這個員工爭取應該有的這個福利這個我已經在質詢部長的時候問了兩次了就是風台梯來的時候你很快這麼多風台來結果我們的臺電的基層員工要去搶修要去搶修那個真的是非常危險的風台梯然後爬那麼高的電線桿上去風隨時又會吹過來結果呢碰到兩個問題第一個"},{"start":11019.605,"end":11037.588,"text":"危險就是上去的危險交集非常少到目前好像一個小時只有105塊嘛我知道你們跟我講說最近剛調過可是真的還是非常低我問最簡單的文生這樣有去爬你媽去總經理那紅台爹叫你一張針抱我哭抱著生命危險你要不要所以我明確的要求至少要調高到200塊"},{"start":11038.885,"end":11060.617,"text":"好不好這是一個那另外還有一個問題就是他你們變成要各個區的這個處長宣布完之後例如說如果在嘉義市嘉義市長宣布不算啊你們要當地的這個當地的這個台電的處長宣布才算我覺得這個也不合理應該就是比照只要當地的縣市長在基隆只要是基隆市長宣布在高雄只要高雄市長宣布就進入這個加急的這個時間點好不好"},{"start":11062.962,"end":11081.56,"text":"跟委員報告,就是說我們會把這些工作都一併來考量,因為我們也遇過就是宣布以後其實颱風就沒有從那個地方來,類似這些事,我想說包含這些相關的工作我們都會來執行,我先把前提講完,就是沒有發生搶修啊,事實是沒有發生嘛,"},{"start":11087.847,"end":11102.879,"text":"就是我要講的是他有講修有講修我們絕對鼓勵我們不可能所以就不要脫屁脫褲子放屁啊就是縣市長決定就好啦對不對你為什麼要你當地的處長再宣布一次這個就有時間差嘛"},{"start":11103.539,"end":11104.219,"text":"我們所有的區處的處長要跟地方政府配合他們原則上"},{"start":11119.665,"end":11138.847,"text":"都會去跟這些地方政府的一些決定做合作這是確定的但他們有他們管理的一些工作你說完完全全就全部都是這樣那我講一個最簡單的是我們現在還有颱風還沒來我比方說是離島我就提前派了"},{"start":11139.568,"end":11148.48,"text":"我就要提前派所以我一定要給我的主管同仁有一點點的權限但你說的地方的首長都已經宣布了我們教育委員會這個宣布我們不會這樣做"},{"start":11151.696,"end":11156.88,"text":"因為你這樣子就每一個樣子每一個工作每一個工作都會加上去因為你這樣子就每一個樣子每一個工作都會加上去"},{"start":11181.936,"end":11183.237,"text":"高雄市長陳其邁宣布了"},{"start":11211.856,"end":11213.437,"text":"臺電的補助預算臺電基金也影響到我們恢復電力"},{"start":11230.362,"end":11231.863,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案"},{"start":11252.611,"end":11267.529,"text":"謝謝主席關於台電員工的這些安全的問題跟工作加擠危險工作加擠的部分我在質詢社也特別提到了我是完全支持所以我覺得台電可能剛剛我們既然主決議有講你們一個月內要去檢討"},{"start":11268.51,"end":11282.12,"text":"是不是還要再提升的這一些危險加急的部分我期待台電能夠趕快去做那如果是這樣的話是不是也能夠請張啟凱委員就不要再凍結了因為我們如果支持他們我們去把這個預算又凍結10%邏輯上好像有一點怪怪的"},{"start":11285.442,"end":11302.458,"text":"至於說是不是縣市長一下令之後就要開始計算那個危險佳績我倒覺得這個應該是讓區處的工作同仁有一些裁量權不然你像這次山陀而來高雄無風無雨了三天吧"},{"start":11303.098,"end":11324.929,"text":"那這個計算也有一點奇怪我倒是覺得台電不管你有沒有宣布停班停課只要是風災來的時候每一個人都已經是在全員戒備的一個狀態了我覺得那個裁量權應該是讓整個公司的管理階層我認為應該要更人性化而且更機動性配合度等等的我覺得這個應該是提升"},{"start":11328.71,"end":11341.834,"text":"我覺得公司應該要去提升這一方面的整個管理程序啦那至於加急的部分我認為其實是應該可以如果可以的話其實應該要給同仁更多的這些鼓勵啦我想"},{"start":11354.107,"end":11368.764,"text":"台風特別是在的時候大家出去出行其實也相當辛苦然後我也支持要給予更那個但是確實就是說也要給台電公司有些彈性因為比如像高雄就這麼大的範圍啦光比如說他可能台風進來在"},{"start":11370.306,"end":11389.672,"text":"前陣小港上來那時候當然很可怕那幾乎非常危險出去工作非常危險可是我也聽到很多那時候在比較山區甚至在台南跟我說他們遠遠看他們那邊沒什麼風雨但是在前陣已經是狂風暴雨了所以我覺得那個要因應當地的狀況不然因應整個全部的那當然就市長腳上可能從嚴去做出議但是我覺得以現場"},{"start":11390.552,"end":11405.698,"text":"那這樣我們才會把有限資源達到最好的一個配置啦所以我希望一方面大家支持台電的經費不要去影響到這個經費一方面該撥補的支持他們可以支持那台電才有更多的餘裕去爭取給員工更多照顧"},{"start":11406.338,"end":11422.784,"text":"至於增加多少我建議這要尊重台電的專業評估因為這個會牽扯到你們內部的財務的問題還有員工間的一些公平性的問題這個我覺得要尊重所以我想整體上面我希望這個案件不要去刪減或保留希望能夠多支持台電的經費 謝謝"},{"start":11425.325,"end":11449.978,"text":"謝謝我想大家都是一致的就是說對於我們台電員工的危險加急的部分我們認為應該要台電要好好思考因為我們真的看到很多台電員工都是冒著生命危險而且在這個風大雨大的時候必須又要兼顧大家用電的一個狀況都在搶修所以我覺得這個部分確實要所以我們認為說"},{"start":11453.22,"end":11471.098,"text":"今天不是用凍結 既然我們大家有一致性就用主決議 主決議之後我們就要求我們的台電對於所有的危險佳績要怎麼去檢討甚至是不是停班停課 因為我告訴你台電的所有的第一線的基層員工 我跟你講"},{"start":11472.319,"end":11496.448,"text":"有時候沒有停班停課那個風大到他們還是要冒著生命危險欸 對不對這個不是停班停課的問題所以我覺得不要定義在停班停課是說在我們幾級風或是多少的雨量的狀況我們應該有多少的一個加級或怎麼樣我就應該訂定這樣的標準不是停班停課我等一下停班停課全部沒風沒雨哥哥"},{"start":11497.048,"end":11520.127,"text":"真的沒有停班停課反而是那種風大到讓你騎在那裡就沒辦法去站著了結果我們台電的員工要回去到電管去處理而且其實我們最大的問題是整個樹然後倒向我們的一個這個電線他們是要去排除耶那個都是極盡危險的所以我們認為訂標準是不是用"},{"start":11521.008,"end":11521.388,"text":"我們休息60秒"},{"start":11624.375,"end":11626.016,"text":"我們一個禮拜內送報告給委員"},{"start":11648.64,"end":11664.025,"text":"我們有跟委員報告過我們是不是一個禮拜之內把這個相關的內容書面資料送給委員那是不是改成組決議?一個禮拜是不是?是因為這個這一題我們有先做了一些準備好那我們事實上就改成組決議齁正委員好改成組決議來45來張祺凱"},{"start":11673.969,"end":11700.347,"text":"45案我在主要我希望可以先凍結2億的原因是因為這個台電最近在這個執行能源轉型的時候出現了一些狀況特別是在推動這個非核家園的政策積極要推動這個非核能源跟各項這個電力計畫的時候發生了一些問題部分電力的興建還有更新這個計畫遭到民眾這個抗爭之後看起來到目前都沒有解決"},{"start":11701.167,"end":11716.8,"text":"而且我看每次經濟部長到曾董事長每次都在那邊呼籲說那你們要讓我蓋啊要不然電就不夠啊所以我要求你們在一個月內要提出一個書面報告看怎麼去化解這個問題那先凍結兩議員等那個報告過來以後我們再來解凍 謝謝來這個這個台電信討論好我們書面報告凍結兩個好一個月內的提書面報告"},{"start":11731.419,"end":11732.801,"text":"16、17 曾振淺跟戴瑞榮"},{"start":11748.485,"end":11776.35,"text":"好 那個利息的部分因為這幾年確實從278億到300億到320億持續的增加那當然我們也看到了其實政府也預定要做撥補那當然現在撥補沒有定案如果撥補下去我相信這個利息費用可以減低所以我本來是用減類1億元因為那個撥補還沒有定案所以我就把它改成凍結1億元那希望俊傑使用希望台電努力節省這個利息的支出我改凍結1億元"},{"start":11781.25,"end":11801.132,"text":"同樣的理由因為那個利息明年預計要320億那比前年增加13億所以我原本也是希望說能夠把他給那個三減利息就是減裂10億元不過剛才若有人這邊說覺得用凍結的方式我這邊也同意用凍結的方式來做處理以上 謝謝"},{"start":11802.353,"end":11818.261,"text":"來台電打封一下來台電說明一下交書面報告我們利率已經降低了啦但是總量的部分我們會努力來增進46事項凍結多少?一億凍結一億一億啊凍結一億對有凍結一億來48張家俊"},{"start":11834.677,"end":11853.99,"text":"基本上部長有說過國營企業在沒有政治考量下應該要創造盈餘是企業存在的基本價值否則它存在的意義為何因想方設法的最起碼不虧錢然而台電這5年從110到114年編列的資產報費損失除了111年以外"},{"start":11861.075,"end":11877.071,"text":"其他年度雖然有逐漸下降的趨勢但預算數能超過10億元這不是一筆小數目所以我覺得這個成效損失的成效有限就是這個"},{"start":11879.232,"end":11905.29,"text":"降低資產報費損失的成效有限所以我才提出說是不是為了避免它繼續擴大這個營運虧損應該還是要減少減劣這樣子跟委員報告因為這個它叫做資產報費其實最主要的原因就是我本來是架空線但我因為環境變更需要變成下地下地就變另外一邊資產"},{"start":11906.411,"end":11929.805,"text":"原來的架空如果還沒到年限就必須報廢類似這些事情其實是整個電力設備的改良才產生的報廢不是我們沒有去珍惜這些設備所以請委員亮解所以你意思就是說這10億元你一年會就是把它下地然後類似下地這些事還有一些電力設備那所以可見你下地的規模是蠻大的阿為什麼我們雲林都沒有下地呢"},{"start":11934.42,"end":11940.084,"text":"跟委員報告整個台灣有很多地方那個經費電纜設備非常的貴那個我可以請會計處我可以請會計處我可以請會計處去跟您說細節的說明那個雲林也有雲林的下地的費用有嗎?是多少?那個配電你們手上"},{"start":11961.406,"end":11989.127,"text":"這個可能要跟這個張委員詳細的說明啊他可能有做他都不知道是不是你們都講不出來嘛不是一定有的你說這個是下地的這個耗費的那個你說之前的那個電纜那怎麼會那個10億元真的沒有非常多啦我們有的時候一條主幹線就上百億的就有所以我刪你2000也沒有很多啊是不是主席英明啊"},{"start":11990.848,"end":12010.58,"text":"我已經迷失了你不要糊塗一時我沒有說什麼,什麼都沒說才2000塊他覺得10億也沒什麼就是因為這種態度他們才會降不下來報告委員我們的金額就像跟剛才說的每年都在下降了我只是說效率不夠還有其他委員會發言那個張新凱"},{"start":12017.523,"end":12021.605,"text":"就像張委員所說的就是說在我們這樣的一個防衛狀態如果說我們沒有實質有需要這麼多那是有真的是這樣嗎?"},{"start":12039.568,"end":12053.038,"text":"沒有跟委員報告我們這幾年其實這一個經費在下降這是第一個第一個重點那第二個重點就是說他其實執行真的是因為所有的這些電路設備包括要時間還沒到要擴張"},{"start":12055.64,"end":12057.682,"text":"所以最主要是因為他那個更換的時候小變大"},{"start":12080.143,"end":12106.769,"text":"或是有做其他的變動的話上變下所以有些都那個器材都還沒有到報廢年限你根本就沒有辦法報廢嘛所以還是要我可以用的我還有繼續撈的因為它連土木的東西都會廢掉所以你們每年自己都減少多少?你像今年跟去年你們是減少多少?我們112年決算數是15億"},{"start":12110.248,"end":12111.875,"text":"去2023年的決算數是15億我今年編10億"},{"start":12117.421,"end":12125.028,"text":"了解 好 那我覺得 不要啦 不要解密這個啦他2023的決算已經是15億了 要自己已經編10億了啦我覺得應該要圓滅啦你動啊 書面報告啦"},{"start":12140.182,"end":12140.362,"text":"主席,針對4949案,有編這個"},{"start":12164.963,"end":12190.172,"text":"合適資產維護管理的預算根據主計總署編定之營業基金會計科目的名稱跟編號的參考表其中損失與賠償給付科目定義為非各種損失與賠償給付皆屬之由於台電公司在損失跟賠償給付的科目下在區分"},{"start":12192.112,"end":12211.582,"text":"資產意外事故損失跟台電資產維護管理這兩項那這兩者都是不符合這個定義這個用途是不符合這個定義的由於這個核四目前看起來是重啟無望"},{"start":12212.022,"end":12228.183,"text":"楊勳"},{"start":12229.063,"end":12247.651,"text":"我想委員想要了解內容這是擔負人民所授予的責任跟義務所以我覺得像如果像是委員有疑慮的那凍結然後報告室的凍結我覺得這是很好的我們就不要再浪費不要再運用很多時間去討論"},{"start":12250.452,"end":12273.722,"text":"那這樣子雙方都可以得到答案這是我的建議 凍結然後報告後使得動之以上建議 台電先回覆一下好那個主要是委員提官問到有關預算科目啦那預算科目其實是循著主計的一個相關的規範來的那也不是台電自己做主不過委員要關心這一個題目台電公司當然可以提書面報告"},{"start":12281.445,"end":12281.465,"text":"謝謝瓊瑛姊"},{"start":12308.098,"end":12312.502,"text":"直接結束啦 又不好處理完很快啊一下就處理完了啦 不會啦 不會很久啦"},{"start":12337.438,"end":12340,"text":"主席一年主席現在57分而已"},{"start":12364.655,"end":12382.939,"text":"全委會懇請主席繼續審查 主席是英明 但是大家身體也要注意好 天氣寒冷 不過我是說現在先休息一下啦 不會啦 不會啦 大家如果凍結報告時那公司就沒有爭議啦 休息五分鐘啦 休息五分鐘"},{"start":12393.046,"end":12393.086,"text":"議員﹚發言人﹚"},{"start":12421.61,"end":12422.01,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":12436.409,"end":12436.79,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12455.152,"end":12455.712,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":12483.179,"end":12483.519,"text":"主席"},{"start":12509.533,"end":12509.693,"text":"委員會委員會議"},{"start":12530.022,"end":12543.67,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":12557.879,"end":12558.12,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":12586.323,"end":12612.466,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":12614.122,"end":12614.142,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":12623.531,"end":12627.974,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":12649.98,"end":12650,"text":"經濟委員會"},{"start":12680.265,"end":12692.228,"text":"處理重大建設事業部分固定資產的建設改良擴充50-51本席提案"},{"start":12707.397,"end":12708.038,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":12727.286,"end":12734.229,"text":"參與委員不在我們就照列那53、54跟陳昌明直接說啦你們的建議啦"},{"start":12741.6,"end":12743.861,"text":"動結1億好不好?"},{"start":12743.861,"end":12752.845,"text":"好啦動結1億提出說明報告使得動資來56賴瑞榮我建議要加速協和電廠我直接提議齁動結1000萬說明報告動資好56萬動結1000萬提出說明報告使得動資好57581100不在來賴瑞榮58一樣齁要求台灣電廠這個一定要加速啦齁動結1000萬齁這個說明報告動資"},{"start":12768.072,"end":12769.613,"text":"動結一切萬事提出順便報告使得動詞59改組決議60改組決議61改組決議"},{"start":12794.665,"end":12810.869,"text":"62到65張家俊、李玉琳、邱怡銀、邱志偉64改組決議65主席也改組決議來李玉琳不在62張家俊62改組決議63李玉琳改組決議6667、68一起處理"},{"start":12822.616,"end":12822.757,"text":"動議宣告"},{"start":12838.434,"end":12843.378,"text":"動1千萬提出書面報告使得動之。 69衰離不在支援招列。70案衰離不在支援招列。"},{"start":12864.485,"end":12865.666,"text":"同樣要求加快電網計劃動一千萬改組決議七十七案改成組決議七十八"},{"start":12889.574,"end":12896.661,"text":"有跟委員報告委員已經同意修正文字我們一道修正文字辦理好我們按照修正文字通過79遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理"},{"start":12913.484,"end":12918.067,"text":"遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理"},{"start":12940.743,"end":12951.309,"text":"遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理"},{"start":12966.101,"end":12989.957,"text":"101102103104105106"},{"start":12990.936,"end":12995.919,"text":"105按照修正文字通過104按照修正文字通過105遵照辦理106遵照辦理107遵照辦理108遵照辦理我們回過頭來處理剛才保留的部分27到這個32"},{"start":13022.788,"end":13030.599,"text":"來,我們來協調一下,來那個張先生我堅持還是減類五百億齁然後明訂裡面至少要減少兩百萬噸的煤不是,來陳…楊卓銘"},{"start":13036.216,"end":13044.906,"text":"本席提案第30案跟羅廷偉那我們的提案是減略20%等於是減略200萬但是我贊成這個期待委員的250億那同時減量的部分也同樣是減200萬噸每一個部分"},{"start":13059.987,"end":13060.608,"text":"張家俊之後的楊瓊玉、張祺楷"},{"start":13085.333,"end":13102.09,"text":"張啟凱"},{"start":13104.09,"end":13123.789,"text":"對阿 我是堅持要3減500啦我提醒大家一下齁我剛剛一直在提醒那個那幾天那個中火跟賣料全開的大家去查一下資料11月14日及15日是台電10個燒名的機組是全開的阿民間的也都全開了那這個事情在最近為了大家的健康我覺得這不能這樣鋪啦"},{"start":13124.309,"end":13125.93,"text":"我首先要請教容許我跟他對話一下齁"},{"start":13156.633,"end":13175.679,"text":"請問到底台電您剛剛所說的明年減300萬噸的煤嘛對不對還有沒有空間依照我們每年逐年減碳我們有空間還多少因為你從頭到尾都告訴我們說你明年減300萬噸嘛對不對"},{"start":13178.8,"end":13179.04,"text":"請針對議題提問回答好嗎?"},{"start":13200.57,"end":13221.777,"text":"因為剛剛這麼久的討論您都是告訴我們總經理告訴我們都說我明年已經比今年減了300萬噸是不是那是預算對對你希望的嘛是不是你已經比明年減300萬噸嘛對不對今年的預算少300萬噸2025比2024少300萬噸對就是你明年比今年會減300萬噸是所以你認為你有在減嘛對不對"},{"start":13230.2,"end":13237.082,"text":"是不是 是是不是 是是我告訴你我要給全國的民眾說新達電廠明年你會停掉兩部機新達電廠的四部燃煤機組一年你們要600萬噸 對不對兩部機是300萬噸 對不對新達的機組今年就停掉兩部機了"},{"start":13254.608,"end":13262.036,"text":"當然所以你兩部機是300萬噸對不對今年停掉明年會不會停請告訴我明年只要在八個還是要運轉明年會不會停他不是停"},{"start":13270.447,"end":13273.993,"text":"就明年的興達機組就不是停它是8%以下它就要啟動對啊就是預估對啊有可能8%以下就要啟動所以你兩部機就是300萬噸嘛依照標準的不是這樣子算的不是這樣子我們大家講清楚"},{"start":13285.851,"end":13290.795,"text":"因為你一直告訴我們明年你今年就停那個新打兩部機兩部機大概藍莓的部分就是300萬噸你明年你告訴我們你明年有可能會停沒關係你現在告訴我8%8%以下你就要啟動它繼續燒但是在你兩部機基本照你的網利是300萬噸"},{"start":13311.972,"end":13326.597,"text":"你不要拿你明年減300萬噸來告訴我們除非你明年你的這個電壓都是8%以下你敢這麼說嗎 對不對不可以這樣欺騙老百姓所以我堅持我們這個部分就是減300億那減200萬噸因為其他人舉手我要讓其他同仁有發言機會"},{"start":13338.882,"end":13361.783,"text":"蘇貞瑩議員"},{"start":13363.007,"end":13388.334,"text":"大家都希望招商大家都希望經濟發展大家都希望產業發展那大家也都希望用電量能夠安全穩定有電可用那我覺得這個時候其實台電已經刪了300億的這個已經努力在做這件事情了但是現在如果這樣刪了有可能因為他給了他不見得他能不用當然盡量不用但是萬一將來用電量持續在增加的時候招商非常順利或人民的用電量明年增加的時候"},{"start":13389.301,"end":13407.26,"text":"你要留一些餘裕給他這不僅是經濟安全同時也是國家安全的問題所以我是真的希望台電電力是一個非常專業的沒有人可以敢開玩笑那是不是請因為經濟委員會都非常的專業那我希望大家是不是能夠支持這樣的預算因為如果能夠減那當然台電已經減了那如果真的"},{"start":13407.981,"end":13422.352,"text":"在這樣刪下去我是擔心他們的電力一旦出問題那明年電力出的狀況這恐怕沒有人負擔得起所以我希望大家能夠不要刪減那如果真的還是無法達成共識那我會建議就保留給蔡偉湘整個專業處理張佳鈞"},{"start":13426.401,"end":13433.864,"text":"我想要就是讓董事長知道說為什麼這麼多委員都堅持說一定要三三百億然後要減少兩百萬噸的用煤的這個量為什麼因為這個中火影響的不只是台中你知道我們斗六我們雲林斗六是常常都止爆那個空氣汙染的指數是影響了廣大的民眾包括非常多的孩子所以我也很希望說當然"},{"start":13454.053,"end":13474.926,"text":"你不確定是你的能源政策要調整怎麼會要犧牲我們所有民眾的健康來完成這件事呢怎麼會講說如果你減少碳會影響我們的用電那我覺得這是不合理的我本來不想講這麼多但我覺得這樣太不合理了所以我再一次呼應這個張祺凱委員跟楊承英委員謝謝"},{"start":13486.5,"end":13500.331,"text":"這裏面真正的解藥也是最關鍵的就是政府跟台電一直跟我們講沒有缺電可是老是缺電在或者是緊急到只剩下備載容量8%所以必須去燃煤"},{"start":13502.404,"end":13509.455,"text":"這是裡面最真正的關鍵 那麼為什麼要堅持至少要三減減裂300億而且至少要減200萬噸的這個煤"},{"start":13511.752,"end":13538.454,"text":"因為民進黨政委跟我們講阿 你們要去推再生能源幹不是第一個你們不缺電 你們要提再生能源 你看每年明年你的標準是多少現在11%的再生能源 你們到今年 明年年底要到15% 16%欸你當初就有電阿 你為什麼要再燒 為什麼要再燒煤所以煤當然是要砍的阿 這是你們的政策阿 所以你們要跟人民講真相我剛剛跟曾董事長講 你說沒有實務基礎全開 我等一下給你看資料"},{"start":13539.315,"end":13557.642,"text":"11月18日及19日二天就是台電石舖燃煤的基礎全開啊而且裡面很嚴重的我告訴你就是因為你們沒有把再生能源的這個比例趕快如期去升高包括地熱你們要好好去用對不對包括核能明明是最便宜的又無碳你們也不要"},{"start":13558.402,"end":13559.503,"text":"最後一位那個誰那個廖偉強廖偉強我們應該處理好"},{"start":13587.267,"end":13615.642,"text":"第一個這還是回過頭來這個能源政策配比的問題其實犧牲了大部分的健康還有能源安全的問題其實也不只是我們自己擔心能源安全這個包含著可能一些國外的比如說美國商會或是一些外國人也很擔心我們的能源自主的問題那當然為什麼特別是這個坎梅的部分就是有關於我們現在中火的問題那其實我也想要問"},{"start":13617.163,"end":13644.057,"text":"我想問一下到時候你也可以回去問一下經濟部長他有沒有覺得二期二期的天然氣為什麼最終結束還要留下六座燃煤機組為什麼為什麼沒有辦法拆一減一至少我想這連部長自己都很納悶啊憑良心講這個可能連部長自己都很納悶為什麼沒有辦法做到這件事然後你說留下來的是憑良心講你說國安危機是不是怕打仗"},{"start":13645.319,"end":13670.125,"text":"那如果你你如果真的是電購的情況之下你留在那裡照理說不應該開嘛但是你如果留在那裡台中部人最擔心的是什麼你電不足的情況之下你就可以把它開啟繼續用廢來發電那多的兩支機組你繼續燃煤讓台中人來這個用廢發電讓中部人來用廢發電這是我們最不解的地方喔所以"},{"start":13670.985,"end":13692.654,"text":"還是一樣這就是歸根結底是能源配比一個很大的問題犧牲到的是我們中部人的健康所以我們在這裡是支持張啟凱委員的提案好 謝謝 來主席這邊處理這個案子已經討論了40分鐘有委員提案檢列有委員提案凍結有委員提案保留沒有辦法共識這個這個案子"},{"start":13697.338,"end":13697.578,"text":"5分鐘就好"},{"start":13732.69,"end":13734.031,"text":"市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長"},{"start":13755.612,"end":13766.019,"text":"中央電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":13782.464,"end":13783.185,"text":"二天一次會議"},{"start":13806.368,"end":13821.492,"text":"我會生氣是什麼?你今天如果坦白跟我講你今天坦白跟我講新達亭我們會減量多少?我們會努力多少?這樣沒話說你當成我們都不知道生命的、健康的可以這樣亂來嗎?"},{"start":13823.864,"end":13825.546,"text":" 你要掩蓋什麼?"},{"start":13825.546,"end":13827.768,"text":"你坦白講對不對?"},{"start":13827.768,"end":13831.191,"text":"你坦白講你800以下你還是要燒?"},{"start":13831.191,"end":13831.291,"text":"對不對?"},{"start":13831.291,"end":13835.834,"text":"你本來你今年就是兩... 對不對?"},{"start":13835.834,"end":13842.88,"text":"你今年兩部經營本來就是...你明年如果兩部新黨... 然後你告訴我新黨你明年沒有要停要不要停?"},{"start":13844.444,"end":13865.156,"text":"新年要不要提拔拍一下你說拔拍一下還是要嘛對不對人民的健康這麼痛苦對不對全力支持你台電還騙我們有什麼可以騙的你坦白跟我說你坦白講什麼叫這樣子你修正你的語言你坦白跟我說明年新達電廠"},{"start":13866.657,"end":13872.361,"text":"對不對兩部要停但是你環評有說8%以下的電力還是要燒你要去統計你會燒多少你要談的跟我講你不能直接跟我說我已經減了300萬噸就是答案新達電廠明年停兩部就是少掉300萬噸對不對你用這個欺騙我們阿我台中火力變了"},{"start":13889.352,"end":13892.734,"text":"我沒有欺騙!我沒有欺騙!我沒有欺騙!我沒有欺騙!我沒有欺騙!我沒有欺騙!我沒有欺騙!"},{"start":13911.909,"end":13939.28,"text":"委員不可以這樣講因為我只想2021年缺水的時候我就必須需要用其他的電力來調度2021年是近5年來近5年來報告委員依照法律台電公司報告委員依照法律我們現在依照法律在執行你有考慮過這些周邊居民的感想嗎我們就是依照法律在執行"},{"start":13940.06,"end":13966.05,"text":"所以我問你啦現在說要減310再減200萬噸的這個燃煤你到底可以接受到什麼程度嗎你也要講出來嘛你完全沒辦法我這樣說我不會知道明年包括我就講了一個最清楚的例子2021年是過去五年來用煤量最大的為什麼因為水利的問題嘛我們也尊重你嘛你拿一個"},{"start":13967.574,"end":13969.276,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案"},{"start":13984.756,"end":14013.956,"text":"你如果講清楚了我們就可以 那你怎麼會沒有做功課我們提這些案子你們都沒有做功課來 你當初提來的預算到底要燒多少的煤跟天然氣 這都要很清楚 多少錢都要很清楚今天的解藥什麼 第一個你自己要想辦法不要讓台灣缺電嘛 包括民進黨政府你都講你明年的那個再生能源就大幅增加啦 大幅增加當然把燃煤減掉啊"},{"start":14015.096,"end":14016.057,"text":"我們已經在見了我們已經在見了我們已經在見了"},{"start":14030.504,"end":14034.526,"text":"我砍掉了250億我們明年只有砍300億要求你200至少要少250億200萬噸的煤那個執行下來有餘裕才砍的嘛阿你明年你為什麼沒辦法繼續撿鄭董事長你為什麼沒辦法繼續選阿我們有繼續撿我們撿了300萬噸"},{"start":14050.376,"end":14060.239,"text":"你們撿的300萬噸是為了明年的那兩個機組要停止要維修才撿的嘛你們這樣子說其實狀況不是這個樣我補充一下從頭到尾一直掩蓋我要呼籲新達電廠的旁邊的民眾現在台電說明年新達電廠我要請問會不會停"},{"start":14078.435,"end":14087.163,"text":"8%以上的會不會停?我們依照8%以上就停啊再停啊那你預估明年兩部今年停兩部今年是停兩部300萬噸你明年8%以上可以停多少?跟委員報告請你告訴我們科學預算請你們告訴我預算是個屋頂我們就是編列下來最好的狀況屋頂不屋頂我們不講數字請你告訴我新一達電廠8%以上"},{"start":14104.378,"end":14115.623,"text":"明年的價值是多少?少掉1億度就會增加4萬噸的煤從頭到尾還是沒有給我們答案啊我們今天是在審預算欸審預算是這部門有條件你有條件你有資格你有權利要告訴社會大眾8%以上你會要多少?你會減多少?對不對?做說明說什麼說明?"},{"start":14127.308,"end":14140.781,"text":"先打個多少?請講!阿主席勒?主席跑去哪裡?阿主席叫回來阿!休息五分鐘他不回來是不是?"},{"start":14142.355,"end":14161.954,"text":"曾董事長,你的政協就趕快去發展再生能源,達到你們民進黨政府自己提出的標準,就不要再燒煤了。你剛剛講的,你現在的困擾就是因為常常降到對債容量8%以下嘛,對不對?所以你就是燒啊,包括剛剛新華電廠就是因為這樣,所以你一直燒煤啊。你剛剛還在跟我講沒有十部機組,我給你聽,11月14日及15日。"},{"start":14166.038,"end":14166.799,"text":"臨口的1號機、2號機、大嶺的1號機、2號機台中的1號機、3號機、4號機、5號機、6號機、10號機"},{"start":14174.599,"end":14185.565,"text":"主席回來了主席我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中我們台中"},{"start":14198.172,"end":14203.655,"text":"請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座請回座"},{"start":14227.617,"end":14253.436,"text":"我主席一向是開明又中立我希望說能夠達成共識在這邊十幾載的時間我們超明跟瓊英我們在一起共識十幾年十幾年從來沒有一次表決過如果在我這邊破例沒有啦沒有表決過"},{"start":14256.857,"end":14270.174,"text":"那個是我還沒來啦所以你要跟上來跟上瓊英的進度這樣子齁我們是議事而且是那個我們經濟委會的特色啦希望能夠追求最大的共識如果真的沒有共識齁"},{"start":14271.598,"end":14280.241,"text":"不要強行用表決,就是到這個院會再去表決。我們如果這個表決一開,我們這個和諧的氣氛就會受到影響。我引重心長跟各位做一個說明。"},{"start":14288.184,"end":14302.371,"text":"我不是說這個要偏擋誰但是過去 求問你當召委的時候我們也尊重你 你有很多保留事項我們經濟委員會有有有我給你報告 你上會期做沒有這種特別議案主席進行處理你上會期當召委的時候主席進行處理我剛剛跟大家說明保留也是一種處理方式嘛 對不對保留 過去很多預算保留送朝野協商阿"},{"start":14318.041,"end":14327.158,"text":"所以主題才是百萬保留反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對!反對"},{"start":14328.524,"end":14328.784,"text":"聽我講 聽我講 聽我講齁"},{"start":14353.942,"end":14357.005,"text":"不要意氣用事,我們心平氣和討論我們會很溫柔的在等待主席裁決小聲一點,小聲一點這個麥克風聲音很大"},{"start":14363.812,"end":14388.05,"text":"這個理直氣和我們這個在這邊面對是都有在轉播沒有人欺騙誰我們是這個就理論理就事論事沒有任何我們為了這個國家能源永續為了節能減碳為了保護大家的身體健康大家目標是一致的但是呢"},{"start":14389.127,"end":14409.437,"text":"大家有不同意見我做召委作為一個主席必須要兼顧大家的意見過去的慣例但是慣例形成是需要一段很長的時間那如果我們打破這個慣例未來動不動又一種表決大家覺得這樣好嗎?"},{"start":14410.663,"end":14412.404,"text":"主席,我建議晚一點先讓他們溝通說明一下,給一點時間,讓台電去專業溝通說明"},{"start":14441.244,"end":14456.558,"text":"所以有些沒有當過主席不曉得主席的難處要有韌性不是耐心還要有韌性所以就像智慧電網一樣也要有智慧所以剛剛休息時間我去念了一下咒"},{"start":14471.612,"end":14487.096,"text":"我是這麼認為啦齁 大家冷卻一下再溝通一下我們是不是再溝通個半個小時阿我沒有推翻阿 我只建議我覺得這個 既然我說 我就處理 我的處理是 保留嘛 你的處理 我們反對嘛 我們要求表決阿"},{"start":14497.813,"end":14497.833,"text":"剛才"},{"start":14525.982,"end":14545.482,"text":"所有的科目都審查非常順利這部分我也認為說有必要再進一步的討論那如果你們認為一定要達成我做的決議保留的決議你們認為你們有意見請問議事委員這該如何處理"},{"start":14551.358,"end":14557.03,"text":"主席是做裁決的嘛 對不對做裁決那你們對主席的裁決你們有意見"},{"start":14558.803,"end":14570.045,"text":"我們提動議表決我們提動議表決你不要站起來主席你不要站起來主席主持是經過你也當過召委是大家的決議主席的權利大家如果同意照這樣子不同意對不對不同意我們可以提出話請主席處理來我再休息一分鐘我就來處理沒有打破慣例經濟委員會也有"},{"start":14587.808,"end":14610.554,"text":"有休息一分鐘來處理齁一分鐘之後我就來處理一分鐘我可以走去哪裡啊有時啦那不可以都沒錢的你也不要說到二十你也不要說到二十那些什麼都沒錢的那些人常常這樣講你也沒有立法院就拜託董事長你也沒有立法院"},{"start":14617.156,"end":14626.065,"text":"我都跟他們說了,他們可以驚慌多久啊!新達你本來就8萬以上就要啊!對啊!我們都要講啦!他就都不行啊!而且新達,新達你咧咧!我現在都在賣土生團,新達不想停,繼續燒!沒有!要再兩次喔!"},{"start":14641.94,"end":14649.883,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":14668.764,"end":14675.287,"text":"一年兩百啦,一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年"},{"start":14685.05,"end":14694.92,"text":"兩百五十一元兩百五十一元兩百五十一元兩百五十一元兩百五十一元兩百五十一元"},{"start":14709.653,"end":14710.374,"text":"委員會主席委員會長"},{"start":14733.15,"end":14734.651,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會"},{"start":14754.372,"end":14758.914,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":14784.287,"end":14784.507,"text":"委員會委員會長"},{"start":14827.27,"end":14827.67,"text":"女士們 請坐女士們 請坐"},{"start":14843.106,"end":14855.34,"text":"I am going to make a very important announcement."},{"start":14855.34,"end":14856.681,"text":"I am starving."},{"start":14860.988,"end":14887.579,"text":"剛才我們國民黨資深委員楊瓊英委員也代表中部這個廣大民眾的權益中部也包括如果陶淑敏也算中部的話鄭振英也算那個誰廖偉祥的廖偉祥也是那個羅天鵝也是"},{"start":14889.416,"end":14890.841,"text":"張家健陳昌明鄭天才"},{"start":14895.911,"end":14924.025,"text":"中部的這個相關的這個權益委員都令我覺得很敬佩當然這個剛剛休息了一分鐘我們做了一些的討論當然我作為一個主席當然也要尊重大家的意見也要讓行政部門可行那剛才我們最資深的這個楊權益委員代表說我們中部的這些委員提出著他們的共同的看法"},{"start":14926.907,"end":14931.67,"text":"這筆預算是如果我沒記錯的話楊勳如果我記錯你再指正一下這個減煤150億然後減煤100噸100萬噸好好來 郭委員"},{"start":14954.332,"end":14979.208,"text":"另外我們還有一個7000多億的系項的不是那個第23案那個誰林建修委員在因為這個系項我們已經有做過檢列或者凍結的是不是還需要有必要再做處理因為系項部分都已經有做過處理的就是改成主決議就好了改成主決議就好了"},{"start":14980.895,"end":14981.515,"text":"我們就處理了"},{"start":15008.188,"end":15008.469,"text":"因為阿這個謝謝大家這個"},{"start":15011.977,"end":15011.997,"text":"23 啊!"},{"start":15040.951,"end":15041.851,"text":"請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":15071.227,"end":15085.697,"text":"發言我先提一下那個19案齁19案我修正一下改為改為凍結500萬元請台電公司於一個月內向立法院經濟委員會提出書面報告以後使得凍結第19案19案本來是凍結1000萬嘛改凍500萬好來徵請委員之後我們就好最後一位發言齁"},{"start":15095.684,"end":15106.258,"text":"現在主席因為本席這邊本來提第24案那我在想說到時候就跟齊凱跟那個秀英的案子併案處理那我這邊要特別提剛剛主席做了一個裁定就是簡列150億跟100萬噸那我這邊要特別"},{"start":15111.224,"end":15130.12,"text":"特別提一個狀態因為剛剛主席這邊有講過這是我們的共識嘛那我要特別提一個情況就是說因為台電這邊的能源真的是有問題因為包括很多綠能的部分再生能源的部分推動其實很不利我們之後也會針對這部分找台電這邊來做進一步的一個協商跟溝通"},{"start":15131.061,"end":15154.131,"text":"再生能源：剛剛齊凱這邊特別提到的狀態就是說為什麼今天他這麼堅持這麼生氣就是因為整個再生能源的一個政策的推動其實也有很多的一個問題然後沒有好好的去解決那剛剛主席這邊如果說已經做成這樣的一個決議我們這邊也就予以尊重以上謝謝我剛剛已經宣告最後發言的那個我們都已經處理完了因為剛剛已經都有講了"},{"start":15160.626,"end":15181.876,"text":"最後講一下因為之前講的那個4000零多少億那個是全部我們剛剛做成的決議是火力發電購煤的部分是減150億那減煤量的部分100萬噸中火的煤量減100萬噸就是這樣子所以不是卡在一起喔減150億是300萬噸的價格啦"},{"start":15189.141,"end":15211.195,"text":"因為兩千兩千萬噸一千億 主席我們還是要回到實務面齁 減一百五十億台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明年的執行 台電會不會影響他們明"},{"start":15219.605,"end":15223.74,"text":"那剛是講這樣那我要聽台電的說法啦這樣子齁"},{"start":15225.56,"end":15232.484,"text":"請坐請坐請坐來新民企業到最後尾聲我們現在有一個比較和諧的氣氛剛才都有討論過那既然就我已經宣讀這個結論當然當時我們都了解但是現場的委員他們這些意見我必須要處理的所以這樣"},{"start":15260.816,"end":15267.1,"text":"最後我猜是董事長你講了一分鐘之後我就要關門了一分鐘"},{"start":15269.053,"end":15284.159,"text":"董事長你講一分鐘好跟委員報告我們現在是2200萬噸然後預算是1050億那如果要對稱減我們是不是能夠就是一個匹配的方法看主席才是比方說減100萬噸的煤他是減50億的預算"},{"start":15300.475,"end":15300.596,"text":"先請回座"},{"start":15313.299,"end":15334.107,"text":"我講了我說這些東西我就這樣子我已經很清楚報告員我們的狀況是這樣我們邊的預算通常都會把相對來講可能全部我們會考慮進來包括2021年其實那一年過去每年的用煤都下降2021年上升因為水情非常不好"},{"start":15334.907,"end":15348.481,"text":"水晶不好就影響供電所以請大家能夠考慮預算邊是給我們一個預度但我們會積極在減煤這件事已經過去幾年一直都在做的事我們從2800萬噸降到明年的預算是2200萬噸2200萬"},{"start":15357.673,"end":15367.038,"text":"剛講他可以減到2200萬不是現在是這樣那我就減我們努力減100萬減5%嘛就50億100萬噸嘛就50億100萬噸啦我們可以附帶啊當然是減金額啊對不對"},{"start":15386.089,"end":15400.719,"text":"就是處理上基本上機關的意見是很重要的如果機關是根本做不到至少要讓他講一下不然接下來怎麼辦請回座 請回座 機關的意見也很重要來 請回座來 次長 次長還是王學商啊?"},{"start":15411.027,"end":15422.955,"text":"主席,經過非常溫柔、理性、祥和、理性科普的討論,我們也都大家尊重請回座我們現在就是金額"},{"start":15430.265,"end":15433.888,"text":"我們重新修正這個案的決議金額減列60億然後"},{"start":15453.344,"end":15475.723,"text":"經濟剪裂60億然後中美的部分中美的部分剪100萬噸經濟剪裂60億好請宣讀協商結論宣讀台電公司協商結論第一案預算照列本案改為主決議第二三案凍結6億元提出書面報告後使得凍資第四五案預算照列"},{"start":15476.932,"end":15496.87,"text":"其中第4案改為主決議、第6案預算照列、第7案預算照列本案改為主決議、第8案預算照列、第9案預算照列短案改為主決議、第10、11案預算照列其中第10案改為主決議、第12案預算照列、第13案預算照列本案改為主決議、第14案預算照列本案改為主決議、第15案簡列100萬元"},{"start":15499.312,"end":15525.625,"text":"第16至17案預算照列其中16案改為主決議第18案預算照列本案改為主決議第19至21案凍結500萬元提出書面報告後使得動之第22案預算照列第23案預算照列本案改為主決議第24案預算照列第25至26案預算照列第27至32案簡列火力發電費用向下燃煤60億元"},{"start":15528.885,"end":15544.943,"text":"第三十三、三十四案預算照列其中三十四案改為主決議第三十五至三十六案凍結一千萬元提出宿命包號使合動之第三十七、三十八案預算照列其中三十八案改為主決議第三十九案預算照列第四十案預算照列"},{"start":15546.38,"end":15561.065,"text":"第41案預算照列第42案43案預算照列第44案預算照列本案改為主決議第45案照案通過第46案47案凍結議員提出書面報告後使得動之"},{"start":15562.325,"end":15570.971,"text":"第48案凍結1000萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資第49案凍結2000萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資第50案51案預算照列本會案改為主決議第52至55案凍結1億元其中55案凍結1億元提出書面報告後使得凍資其中55案改為主決議第56案"},{"start":15586.742,"end":15602.027,"text":"動輒1000萬元提出書面報告後使得動之第57、58案動輒1000萬元提出書面報告後使得動之第59至61案預算照列本3案均改為主決議第62至65案預算照列本4案均改為主決議"},{"start":15602.987,"end":15625.958,"text":"第66至68案凍結一千萬元提出書面報告後使得動之其中66案改為主決議第69案預算照列第70案凍結一千萬元提出書面報告後使得動之第71案預算照列本案改為主決議第72、73案凍結一千萬元提出書面報告後使得動之其中73案改為主決議第74案預算照列"},{"start":15626.618,"end":15646.225,"text":"本案改為主決議第75案撤案第76案預算照列本案改為主決議第77案改為主決議主決議部分78案修正通過79案到83案照案通過84案修正通過85案照案通過86案修正通過87案到95案照案通過96案修正通過97案到103案照案通過104案修正通過105案到108案照案通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":15663.596,"end":15666.664,"text":"來剛剛協商的結論宣讀完畢那這個"},{"start":15668.624,"end":15695.647,"text":"我先講一下齁那個今天大家稍微看一下都知道齁今天高雄的空污狀況比台中還要嚴重啦齁高雄是全部現在最嚴重的都在南部都在高雄台中還是綠的高雄已經是黃色的所以高雄在承擔的空污我們還百分之四十中送北送那如果照剛剛這樣的通過的話我們沒有辦法對高雄交代啦所以我的意思是說你要撿就全台灣一起撿這個我可以接受你如果高雄、台中要撿那高雄更要撿啦"},{"start":15696.548,"end":15711.219,"text":"所以我意思說兩個選擇一個就是全部拿掉就是減100那另外一種就是高雄台中都一起減沒有理由高雄比台中空污更嚴重然後台中還減100然後高雄不能減那這樣子我也沒辦法接受這我也沒辦法接受主席"},{"start":15722.337,"end":15737.246,"text":"賴委員講的話我覺得我要表達支持啦所以我願意啊我們大家一起來為台灣努力嘛所以我覺得是不是台中100萬噸高雄也100萬噸這樣就好了應該也要照顧高雄人我們應該為高雄鄉賴委員用心良苦"},{"start":15741.035,"end":15767.149,"text":"你不要去區分區域阿你如果要求的話那就把臺中高雄一起併進去臺中高雄一起併進去我再次強調高雄現在空污是比臺中還要嚴重的一起併進去是200萬高高雄現在40%空氣往中往北送的電力往中往北送臺中高雄併進去就議委員的建議就是把臺中高雄一起併進去兩個一起併進去"},{"start":15771.479,"end":15787.444,"text":"沒有沒有,100萬對就寫說我剛剛已經下局主席都已經講了一直一直在講草野寫上就是還沒寫上,完整就是還沒有啦各位同仁同仁大家同仁不要這樣子啦同仁不要這樣子啦同仁不要這樣子啦同仁不要這樣子啦同仁不要這樣子啦同仁不要這樣子啦同仁不要這樣子啦"},{"start":15793.746,"end":15794.366,"text":"同仁對同仁不要這樣子"},{"start":15810.738,"end":15825.668,"text":"我想我們在這裡我們一定要面對實際的狀況就是說我們希望減煤但是我們也要兼顧到整個產業的一個發展的需求所以還是要合乎實際上台電有辦法執行的有效減煤"},{"start":15827.129,"end":15849.422,"text":"對,那你何必去把它限定地區呢?如果說我們把目標100萬噸就把地區拿掉那就是讓台電去調整那當然他要調整哪邊就台電來規劃阿事實上會規劃的重點一定是在火力發電比較多的地方那現在大家也知道高雄、台中是火力發電相對其他比較多的自然也會從這裡去減下來"},{"start":15851.643,"end":15862.191,"text":"我們何必要從雍區域然後你這樣去用那事實上台電董事長剛剛也講到了這樣是會影響到明年度台電的運作那如果這樣的話我們還是要有一些斟酌調整的空間啊"},{"start":15869.107,"end":15888.16,"text":"我們就是協調完了60億、100萬噸主席英明自己宣誓了他又馬上又加碼說是中央的100萬噸現在又要再改一改再改一退再退好了沒有要再改了因為努力比較不要那個那個那個剛才那個楊瀅說就再連一個主決議把這個主決議補上去啦因為啊那個請問一下"},{"start":15895.339,"end":15919.619,"text":"你中火新達在我那邊大林他那邊又有兩位主協長我們都是火我們都是火主決議通過就好了所以他會這樣歡迎我可以了解希望大家可以提及所以一旦他是沒有辦法對國有什麼交代你是對台中有什麼交代他不可以對國有什麼交代所以你那個各自去寫主決議那個補一個主決議起來對啦對啦各自去寫主決議你們寫你們的我們寫我們的就好了"},{"start":15924.222,"end":15924.723,"text":"委員會主席 休息180秒"},{"start":15943.933,"end":15960.759,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":15962.022,"end":15971.048,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16006.988,"end":16029.565,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":16047.9,"end":16049.281,"text":"第11屆第2會期經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司："},{"start":16096.869,"end":16123.49,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":16126.852,"end":16150.105,"text":"第11屆第2會期經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司。"},{"start":16159.13,"end":16167.018,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16176.939,"end":16177,"text":"第12屆第3會議"},{"start":16195.52,"end":16217.367,"text":"第11屆第2會期經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司"},{"start":16222.307,"end":16235.223,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16255.121,"end":16257.782,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16270.295,"end":16270.516,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16273.483,"end":16274.144,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16303.746,"end":16312.57,"text":"第11屆第2會期經濟部總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":16333.295,"end":16355.568,"text":"第11屆第2會期經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司：台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司。"},{"start":16375.665,"end":16376.625,"text":"來請坐 坐下才能發便當"},{"start":16387.015,"end":16415.681,"text":"來新增108之一108之二來新增101108之一108之二好好大家沒有意見沒有意見我們中火減煤100萬噸"},{"start":16418.27,"end":16431.365,"text":"這是附來決議。就是主決議啦。 主決議啦。決議啦。決議啦。好。好。那個。我以為我真的是。 沒關係啦。這是決議啦。來。這個。108之1比108之2通過。來。這個。"},{"start":16440.236,"end":16442.758,"text":"請問各位委員有委員提案的部分均照"},{"start":16467.915,"end":16481.58,"text":"均照剛才宣讀的結論通過沒有提案的部分均照列或水桶調整請問有異議請問有異議好 通過通過的這個決議受文字授權主席"},{"start":16493.652,"end":16502.331,"text":"及議事主席及議事人員整理今日所列議程處理完略現在 散會"},{"start":16524.777,"end":16536.384,"text":"有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣電力股份"},{"start":16548.371,"end":16549.572,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}