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謝謝主席是不是請部長請陳部長部長就在辛苦了電視上有看到首先問你一個大問題今年度要審預算嘛審明年度的預算這個預算你們有沒有給綠不給藍會不會這樣"},{"start":30.259,"end":40.588,"text":"不會啊不要嘴巴講喔馬祖的預算不是馬祖 我說全部全部我們都一視同仁稍微你做見證不要給綠不給藍不會有這個問題如果是這樣的話省預算就很麻煩了"},{"start":48.612,"end":78.244,"text":"好現在先問部長一個問題聽說這個韓港局在打造一條新船也就是希望能夠做藍色公路跳島等等那基於風災花蓮的風災之前我們調度了馬二組的新臺馬輪到那邊去我們很多民眾有的也有聲音不是沒有聲音為什麼因為你對我們的交通"},{"start":79.278,"end":107.184,"text":"反害到我們的交通秩序了嘛是不是但是民眾也都能夠了解啦這大事嘛所以葉局長啊對我們也沒話講他調動的話我們縣長馬上就答應了就調度了那可能基於這樣的考量呢在風災的時候也或是戰死的時候這一艘船呢將來你們打造這艘船啊聽說八千隊以上大概造價要將近二十七億嘛"},{"start":108.393,"end":123.1,"text":"而且這個速度21節 速度蠻快的它可以在夏天可以跳島旅遊澎湖金門馬祖救災的時候可以用冬天的時候當然因為金門跟澎湖有四溪的機場"},{"start":124.605,"end":139.601,"text":"大家還是比較偏重在空運所以冬天的時候可以讓我們馬祖因為我們馬祖真的四個鄉五個島東引那邊確實很不方便可以做一個調度部長你的看法能不能初步報告一下這個狀況"},{"start":141.911,"end":163.412,"text":"已經到哪個環節了現在報告委員我們目前已經轉到行政院行政院核定之後我們就會來執行不過我們在執行這個計畫之前我們其實這幾年我們會先努力把這個運量跟運能跟大家搭乘藍色公路的這個習慣先養起來所以我們今年其實已經開始試辦了"},{"start":164.953,"end":193.698,"text":"先跟民間來借船或者是租船那我們透過三個不一樣的航路跟航線先用觀光的角度讓大家適應這樣子的藍色公路我們希望說船一來之後大家就可以搭這個船在夏天的時候旅遊那或者是請問院長支持這件事情嗎我想院長是支持的院長是支持的好還有很關心的是這一艘船到底在國內打造還是在日本打造"},{"start":194.498,"end":212.748,"text":"因為我們規劃是這個Lolo史上史下大型的客戶貨船那這個在日本的造船技術上是可以說全球是相當優秀的因為他們有內附內海"},{"start":214.989,"end":241.521,"text":"那我目前的規劃還是比較傾向由日本的船廠來打造這個非常重要喔因為我們有個政策是國艦國造我們國艦國造我們的台馬輪 台馬之星把馬輪害死了他把那個牛的心臟裝在豬裡面那個散熱系統根本都不對嘛到現在你看一千多萬 一千多萬 一千多萬一直維修"},{"start":242.574,"end":258.639,"text":"老闆已經罵死了我想這個方向是對的好不好往日本日本船他們技術非常的好我也親自也跑到日本去看過了那第二個問題就是燕翔你請回沒事"},{"start":260.615,"end":279.652,"text":"前幾天我們華信陳董事長到馬祖去派會陳董事長跟我私交非常好我們在國民大會同事過目前高雄飛馬祖的航線阿兵哥有一半以上的阿兵哥都在那邊那麼"},{"start":282.998,"end":303.403,"text":"那麼現在成本在計算來華信也有錢賺也有錢賺那麼華信也添了新的飛機進來了我想謝謝我們董事長也非常支持這件事情但是陳董事長回答說還要過一陣子一陣子我不曉得多久飛機還沒來因為禮拜"},{"start":306.96,"end":332.853,"text":"六飛過去嘛那禮拜五飛過去可以把客人玩了兩天禮拜一把他帶回來嘛 帶回高雄這件事情我想我們召委李昆哲委員許智傑委員都非常的支持這個案子而且也盯得滿緊的齁當然我們華航董事長不在話下啦齁非常努力那這個陳董事長到馬祖區也承諾齁你回答我一下好不好"},{"start":335.115,"end":351.333,"text":"是不是請董事長回答好不好跟委員報告一下那個因為ATR它現在那個產的那個飛機啊原本到今年年底要交我三架到現在都還沒來一架都還沒來您的意思是說飛機一到就可以來了就可以飛了嗎"},{"start":352.534,"end":375.863,"text":"這三架是要取代舊的老飛機那你還有多一架 你退出一架嘛 對不對對 他來一架我就退一架但是我為了這個 我又多買了第十三架這第十三架 我們原本的計畫就是要用在新開的航線那高董你也支持這件事情嗎當然 當然民航局 河區長OK嗎好 那請回 這個問題就很簡單了"},{"start":379.261,"end":404.474,"text":"另外就是馬祖燈會行之有年但是明年的預算我看不到有燈會的錢台灣都在每個縣市辦大燈會我們馬祖辦個小燈會以前都有支持我們幾百萬請問部長你要不要支持我們繼續努力沒有預算喔這個我需要再了解一下因為我不曉得馬祖燈會的預算"},{"start":410.509,"end":412.051,"text":"村長你回答我一下這個問題好不好因為明年度的那個補助經費我可以請我們旅遊推廣組的組長因為細節在他這裡沒關係沒關係"},{"start":427.778,"end":445.589,"text":"謝謝啦因為每年都有行之有年去年今年的春節給了我們450萬錢也不多我們四個鄉五個島平均大概一個島分不到一百萬南竿當然比較大一點可能要兩百萬只給了450萬這個經費你們能夠承諾我嗎"},{"start":449.171,"end":478.226,"text":"跟委員報告計劃的部分好像最近有送到我們這邊來了那我們再來 但你們給他打回去啦你都沒有預算啦應該是沒有打回去因為我們 如果沒有的話那全國各地的單位通通不要辦好了我們也來 明年預算通通把它砍掉就算啦報告委員不會有這種狀況 莊委你覺得有沒有道理給我們一點錢如果不給的話那其他你們各縣市連高雄市也不要辦"},{"start":479.963,"end":501.18,"text":"報告委員在預算可以允許的範圍內一定會繼續協助啦這個燈會是很重要的我們盡量來協助好不好不要盡量啦你一定要協助錢多錢少是不是去年 今年給了450萬你今年起碼給350萬 400萬我也不會講話一毛錢都不給一毛錢都不給的話那我這個大手拿起來一揮"},{"start":506.864,"end":533.78,"text":"馬祖其實他的觀光對整個國家來講是相當重要所以這個部分我們會盡量來協助不要盡量 一定你盡量的話我也盡量來省預算了這樣就不好玩了我對你們觀光部那麼好對你們交通部那麼好陳署長可以嗎你們都答應我了喔到時候不要沒有喔 好不好另外陳署長等一下"},{"start":536.208,"end":557.785,"text":"現在補助各地的風景管理處經費很像都是兩億以上兩億以上 金門你們補助多少 不知道喔知道嗎金門不在 金門是國家公園金門國家公園 澎湖呢澎湖是風景管理處都是兩三億耶我們是114年度1.67億115年1.69億"},{"start":561.687,"end":586.803,"text":"我當縣長 我當縣長的時候補助的很多還不只這個 都是兩億 兩三億 三億多那自從陳部長上任以來越來越少 你好意思嗎只能增加 不能減少 好不好陳部長是 我回去再進一步的了解一下我沒刪過你的預算我沒有刪過你的預算"},{"start":590.571,"end":619.306,"text":"包委員預算充足的狀況底下能協助我們一定會做好稍微站起來了最後一個問題大邱旅客中心第一期經費總總是1.27億還有第二期的4230萬還沒撥款當然年底我們就完成了這個錢聽說你們明年也沒有預算部長房子蓋了一半這是交通部觀光署主辦的"},{"start":620.509,"end":624.121,"text":"主辦的工程那你們主辦的工程你幹了一半"},{"start":625.123,"end":653.792,"text":"如果說部長你有答應過我有啦 這個會做但是他的進度還沒到所以我們照規定還沒辦法撥款進度啦進度還沒到他的工程的進度還沒到到了會給錢嗎到了一定會給你不給錢我就擺在那裡擺爛是是是 到了一定會給還有內裝金費要兩千三百萬也要給撥款的部分沒有問題如果他的工程進度到了一個空的房子在那裡有什麼意思啊是我們符合規定該給的時候一定都會給你不要一直按嘛 小姐"},{"start":655.504,"end":675.253,"text":"我才超過30秒跟委員報告就是工程完成之後呢我想說我們可以再辦一次那個考察然後再看後面細節的部分處理部長有答應我要給錢嗎要看工程進度工程進度到了該給的位置但你明天沒預算啊進度到你沒錢啊"},{"start":677.421,"end":691.739,"text":"我們在想辦法 我知道你只剩下補助款兩億我們當然明年的預算會比較吃緊這個是事實 我們盡量來來挪 盡量來想辦法這個不給周圍壓力 好不好這個拜託部長 還拜託署長 好不好謝謝了"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":696,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（12時4分）謝謝主席，是不是請部長？"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，救災辛苦了！首先問你一個大問題，今年度要審明年度的預算，你們的預算會不會給綠不給藍？"],["陳部長世凱：不會。"],["陳委員雪生：不要光用嘴巴講喔！"],["陳部長世凱：馬祖的預算也都有啊！"],["陳委員雪生：不是馬祖的預算，我講的是全部、全部？"],["陳部長世凱：我們都一視同仁。"],["陳委員雪生：召委，你做見證，不要給綠不給藍。"],["陳部長世凱：不會有這個問題。"],["陳委員雪生：如果是這樣的話，審預算就會很麻煩了。"],["陳部長世凱：不會有這個問題。"],["陳委員雪生：聽說航港局正在打造一艘新船，希望能做藍色公路，包括跳島等等？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：那基於風災，花蓮的風災，之前我們調度了馬祖的新臺馬輪到那邊去嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員雪生：我們很多民眾，有的也有聲音啦！不是沒有聲音，為什麼？因為你對我們的交通，妨害到我們的交通秩序了，但是民眾也都能夠瞭解，這是大事嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：葉局長對我們也沒話講，所以他調動的話，我們縣長馬上就答應了，就調度了。可能基於這樣的考量，在風災的時候或是戰時的時候，將來你們打造這一艘船，聽說八千噸以上大概造價要將近27億，而且這個速度21節，速度滿快的。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：它在夏天可以跳島旅遊，到澎湖、金門、馬祖。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：那救災的時候可以用嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：冬天的時候，當然因為金門跟澎湖有4C的機場，大家還是比較偏重在空運。"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["陳委員雪生：所以冬天的時候，因為我們馬祖有4個鄉5個島，東引那邊確實很不方便，可以讓我們馬祖做一個調度，部長，你的看法如何？能不能初步報告一下現在的狀況已經到哪個環節了？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們目前已經轉到行政院，等行政院核定之後，我們就會來執行。不過我們在執行這個計畫之前，其實這幾年我們會先努力把運量、運能以及大家搭乘藍色公路的習慣先養起來，所以我們今年已經開始試辦了，先跟民間來借船或者是租船，我們透過3個不一樣的航路與航線，先用觀光的角度讓大家適應這樣子的藍色公路。"],["陳委員雪生：很好。"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望船一來之後，大家就可以搭這個船在夏天的時候旅遊，或者是到冬天的時候……"],["陳委員雪生：請問院長支持這件事情嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我想院長是支持的。"],["陳委員雪生：院長是支持的？"],["陳部長世凱：院長是支持的。"],["陳委員雪生：院長是支持的。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：好，還有很關心的是，這一艘船到底是在國內打造，還是在日本打造？"],["陳部長世凱：我是不是請局長？"],["陳委員雪生：好，局長。"],["葉局長協隆：跟委員報告，因為我們規劃的是RORO駛上駛下大型的客貨船，這個在日本的造船技術上可以說是全球相當優秀的，因為他們有瀨戶內海，那我們目前的規劃還是比較傾向由日本的船廠來打造。"],["陳委員雪生：這個非常重要喔！"],["葉局長協隆：是。"],["陳委員雪生：因為我們有一個政策是國艦國造，我們國艦國造，我們的臺馬輪──臺馬之星，哇！把馬祖害死了，它把牛的心臟裝在豬里面，那個散熱系統根本都不對嘛！到現在你看，一千多萬、一千多萬、一千多萬一直維修，老百姓都罵死啦！我想這個方向是對的，往日本，日本的造船技術，都有船啦！他們技術非常地好，我也親自跑到日本去看過了。葉局長你請回，沒事了。","第二個問題，前幾天華信陳董事長到馬祖去拜會，陳董事長跟我私交非常好，我們在國民大會同事過。目前高雄飛馬祖的航線，有一半以上的阿兵哥都在那邊，那麼現在成本再計算起來，華信也有錢賺，而且華信也添了新的飛機進來了嘛！我想謝謝董事長也非常支持這件事情，但是陳董事長回答說還要過一陣子，一陣子我不曉得是多久，既然……"],["陳部長世凱：飛機還沒來。"],["陳委員雪生：因為禮拜五飛過去，客人玩了兩天，可以在禮拜一把他帶回來高雄，我想我們召委李昆澤委員、許智傑委員都非常地支持這個案子，而且也盯得滿緊的，當然華航董事長不在話下，非常地努力，那陳董事長到馬祖去也承諾，你回答我一下，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：是不是請董事長回答？"],["陳委員雪生：也可以。"],["高董事長星潢：跟委員報告一下，因為ATR它現在產的飛機，原本到今年年底要交貨3架，到現在都還沒來，1架都還沒來。"],["陳委員雪生：您的意思是說，飛機一到就可以飛了？"],["高董事長星潢：這3架是要取代舊的老飛機，我另外因為這個……"],["陳委員雪生：那你還有多1架，你退出1架嘛！對不對？"],["高董事長星潢：對，它來1架我就退1架，但是我為了這個，我又多買了第13架。"],["陳委員雪生：好。"],["高董事長星潢：這第13架我們原本的計畫就是要用在新開的航線。"],["陳委員雪生：高董你也支持這件事情嘛？"],["高董事長星潢：當然、當然。"],["陳委員雪生：民航局何局長，OK嗎？好，那請回，這個問題就很簡單了。"],["高董事長星潢：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：另外就是馬祖燈會行之有年，但是明年的預算我看不到有燈會的錢耶！臺灣在每個縣市都辦大燈會，我們馬祖辦個小燈會，以前都有支持我們幾百萬，請問部長，你要不要支持我們繼續努力？沒有預算喔！你沒有編預算，觀光署的。"],["陳部長世凱：這個我需要再瞭解一下，因為我不曉得馬祖燈會的預算。"],["陳委員雪生：瞭解嗎？觀光署陳署長有來嘛？陳署長，你回答一下這個問題，好不好？"],["陳署長玉秀：是，明年度的補助經費我請我們旅遊推廣組的組長來說明，因為細節在他這裡。"],["陳委員雪生：沒關係、沒關係，來。謝謝啦！因為每年都有啊！行之有年，今年的春節給了我們450萬。錢也不多，我們是4個鄉5個島，平均大概1個島分不到100萬，南竿當然比較大一點，可能要200萬，只給了450萬，這個經費你們能夠承諾我嗎？"],["陳組長榮欽：跟委員報告，計畫的部分好像最近有送到我們這邊來了，我們再來審查。"],["陳委員雪生：你們給人家打回去啦！"],["陳組長榮欽：它是透……"],["陳委員雪生：你都沒有預算啊！"],["陳組長榮欽：應該是沒有打回去，因為我們還在審查。"],["陳委員雪生：如果沒有預算的話，那全國各地的燈會統統不要辦好了，我們也來……"],["陳組長榮欽：不會，委員，不會有這種狀況。"],["陳委員雪生：明年的預算統統把它砍掉就算啦！"],["陳組長榮欽：報告委員，不會有這種狀況。"],["陳委員雪生：召委，你覺得有沒有道理？給我們一點錢，如果不給的話，你們其他各縣市連高雄市也不要辦了。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，在預算可以允許的範圍內，我們一定會繼續協助。"],["陳委員雪生：偏鄉離島你們要重視啦！"],["陳部長世凱：這個燈會是很重要的，我們儘量來協助，好不好？"],["陳委員雪生：不要儘量啦！你一定要協助，錢多錢少，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是、是、是，我們一定來協助。"],["陳委員雪生：今年給了450萬，你明年起碼給350萬、400萬，我也不會講話，你一毛錢都不給！"],["陳部長世凱：我們來瞭解預算的狀況。"],["陳委員雪生：一毛錢都不給的話，那我這個大手拿起來一揮，大家不要玩了。"],["陳部長世凱：其實馬祖的觀光對整個國家來講是相當重要，所以這個部分我們會儘量來協助，這個OK的。"],["陳委員雪生：不要儘量，一定。"],["陳部長世凱：好，一定會協助。"],["陳委員雪生：不是儘量，你儘量的話，那我也儘量來審預算，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：好，瞭解、瞭解。"],["陳委員雪生：這樣就不好玩了，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：我對你們交通部那麼好，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：陳署長，可以嗎？"],["陳署長玉秀：可以。"],["陳委員雪生：你們都答應我了，到時候不要沒有喔！好，你們請回，陳署長等一下。","另外，現在補助各地的風景管理處，經費好像都是2億以上，金門你們補助多少不知道喔！知道嗎？"],["陳署長玉秀：金門是國家公園。"],["陳委員雪生：金門是國家公園，澎湖嘞？"],["陳署長玉秀：澎湖是風景管理處。"],["陳委員雪生：都是2、3億耶！我們是114年度1.67億，115年1.69億，我當縣長的時候補助了很多，還不只這個，都是2、3億，三億多，自從陳部長上任以來越來越少，你好意思嗎？只能增加不能減少，好不好？陳署長。"],["陳署長玉秀：是，我回去再進一步瞭解一下是哪個項目。"],["陳部長世凱：我們這個預算再盤點一下，再盤點一下我們的預算。"],["陳委員雪生：我沒刪過你的預算耶！我沒有刪過你的預算耶！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，預算充足的狀況底下，能協助我們一定會做。"],["陳委員雪生：好，召委站起來了。最後一個問題，大坵旅客中心第1期經費總total是1.27億，還有第2期的4,230萬還沒撥款，當然年底我們就完成了，這個錢聽說你們明年也沒有預算，部長，房子蓋了一半，這是交通部觀光署主辦的工程，你們主辦的工程你蓋了一半，如果說……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員……"],["陳委員雪生：部長，你有答應過我。"],["陳部長世凱：有啦！這個會做，但是它的進度還沒到，所以我們照規定還沒有辦法撥款。"],["陳委員雪生：不是儘速啊！"],["陳部長世凱：進度啦！進度。"],["陳委員雪生：進度還沒到。"],["陳部長世凱：進度還沒到，它的工程進度還沒到。"],["陳委員雪生：到的話會給錢吧？"],["陳部長世凱：到了一定會給。"],["陳委員雪生：你不給錢，我就擺在那裡擺爛。"],["陳部長世凱：是、是、是，到了一定會給，這個沒問題。"],["陳委員雪生：還有內裝經費2,300萬也要給啊！"],["陳部長世凱：撥款的部分沒有問題，如果它的工程進度到了……"],["陳委員雪生：不然一個空的房子在那裡有什麼意思？"],["陳部長世凱：是，我們符合規定，該給的時候一定都會給。"],["陳委員雪生：你不要一直按鈴嘛！小姐，我才超過30秒。"],["陳署長玉秀：跟委員報告，在工程完成之後，我想我們可以再辦一次考察，然後再看後面細節的部分怎麼處理。"],["陳委員雪生：不，署長，部長有答應我要給錢喔！"],["陳署長玉秀：是。"],["陳部長世凱：會啦！這個本來就……"],["陳委員雪生：部長，要給吧？"],["陳部長世凱：要看工程進度。"],["陳委員雪生：對，看進度。"],["陳部長世凱：工程進度到了，該給的會給。"],["陳委員雪生：但是你明年沒預算啊！你進度到你沒錢啊！"],["陳部長世凱：我們再想辦法，內裝的部分目前是沒有編。"],["陳委員雪生：我知道你只剩下補助款2億啊！"],["陳部長世凱：當然明年的預算會比較吃緊，這個是事實，我們儘量來挪、儘量來想辦法。"],["陳委員雪生：好吧！不給召委壓力，這個就拜託部長，還有拜託署長，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳雪生委員。向陳雪生委員及各位列席的委員做個報告跟說明，委員發言完畢之後，我們都會給各位再1分鐘的時間，經過1分鐘之後會響3個鈴，如果各位委員還沒有辦法收尾，我們會再給各位30秒，也是會再按3次鈴，這個跟各位說明。我們交通委員會對委員的發言都充分地給予尊重，所以本會委員是6加2，列席的委員也都有5分鐘，而且5分鐘會再加1分鐘的補充。","謝謝，我們對每一個委員都同樣地尊重，各黨派都一樣。","現在請黃國昌主席發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","洪孟楷","林國成","徐富癸","蔡其昌","魯明哲","林俊憲","陳素月","何欣純","許智傑","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","黃國昌","邱若華","陳俊宇","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","李柏毅","蔡易餘","游顥","葉元之","陳冠廷","蘇清泉","賴惠員"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「十月\n各連續假期疏運執行及規劃情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148101_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}