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也要盡力 盡力後再拿去讓人家去刮蚵仔這些作業 基本上如果我是僱主 我當然會我有移工 我當然希望他在這些作業都可以做啊但是呢 以現行的規定他這個移工 只可以在海上作業以及陸上移工就不能做了所以他遇到危機 會被開發端這件事情就不合理啊"},{"start":100.157,"end":111.827,"text":"部長你應該懂我的意思嘛就是說移工他的作業我們把它定義說他是海上作業的移工他不能在陸域工作不能在陸域工作我這樣 我不就要請兩特人"},{"start":113.106,"end":129.482,"text":"那個蔡永我了解這意思因為這個確實有愚民來澄清那大概有幾個部分我們在評估的原則第一個部分就是說這幾個工作的場域都是合法的工作場域那這是一個合法工作場域那我們現在還在評估嗎"},{"start":132.421,"end":147.84,"text":"工作殘餘一定是合法嘛我的工作殘餘就是會跟他說做回去外面因為我外面的鵝阿伯會帶去外面然後定期就要去那邊整理"},{"start":148.62,"end":164.157,"text":"整理回來 撬回來之後 把鵝餅拖回來拖回來就是 鵝要把它撬起來放在籃子裡面 籃子再製造那就是一般的作業嘛所以整個作業上 反而在入獄的部分是更辛苦的"},{"start":165.502,"end":192.92,"text":"在陸域的時候是辛苦的 所以在這一段移工是不能幫忙的 不能插手所以我們第一個是 第一個如果先確定就是說工作的場域是一個合法的工作場域的話那我想我們會持續的 我們現在會來針對就是現在漁民們的這個訴求來評估啦部長你指的工作場域是指說怎樣的工作場域比方說漁船跟它的這個科棚 應該是科棚嘛對不對對 科棚就是漁船跟科棚這幾個地方要是合法的"},{"start":194.179,"end":207.546,"text":"對這沒有問題但是他可能磕盆回來到回來到作業平台入港後就有一個平台他就會在那裡作業看起來就在這一段的作業會被檢舉包委員我們現在了解的狀況就是當這個漁工要從這個A場域到B場域的時候"},{"start":213.989,"end":234.275,"text":"我們的了解是B場域目前他還沒有取得他的使用權他還沒有拿到漁權那漁權的部分需要由地方政府進行合法許可所以我們的理解是他們還在申請許可的過程中所以當他要從A場域調派到B場域的時候可能會涉及到不是合法的場域"},{"start":234.815,"end":250.504,"text":"那這是我們了解的個案我們不曉得說我們知道的跟委員所提的是不是同一個個案因為我們齁我們我們在東石布袋齁我們是叫做區劃漁業權那區劃漁業權就是有一塊齁就是每個劃一塊就是說鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹鷹�"},{"start":264.371,"end":269.054,"text":"他那樣的話是要再去申請漁權嗎?這個我有點納悶因為過去比方說在製造業可能也有所謂A場B調"},{"start":281.821,"end":306.605,"text":"就是我同一個同一個僱主下面我可能有兩個廠那這兩個廠的移工他可能在一定比例之下他可以有些調度這我們叫A廠B廠的做法那所以我們也在思考說剛剛委員在跟講的這樣子的情境那有沒有可能往這那可是這個要這樣做的前提是那個工作的場域那我們怎麼確認他是有使用權跟合法那我覺得這部分也許"},{"start":307.225,"end":318.036,"text":"我們可以來跟 包括漁業署然後也跟 也許委員辦公室我們這邊大家再會 也許我可以用個案來跟你們來溝通大家再會一下這件事情看一下說這個個案到底是怎樣或者它不一定只是個案它不會是個案只是說遇到檢舉的是一個個案"},{"start":325.943,"end":342.701,"text":"對所以我說不一定是一個個案但是我說這個狀況就是說我們怎麼確認這兩個工作的場域其實都是合法有使用權的比較能夠我們要去做相關的考慮或相關的評估相關的放寬的時候比較有一個清楚的依據大概是這個意思"},{"start":343.001,"end":362.28,"text":"部長所以我事實上講了這個移工事實上遇到這些困難所以我想進一步再建議啦短短的一分鐘事實上我們事實上國內對於外籍移工的一個政策我們都希望移工只在一個工作只做一份工作這件事情我覺得"},{"start":363.001,"end":387.569,"text":"保守了 也許我們可以去思考 移工可以去做第二份工作也都是兼差的概念 只是說未來要怎麼落實管理他在第一份工作之後 他在他的其他其餘時間比方說六日 移工如果願意的話 讓他去兼第二份工作未嘗不可 因為現在勞動力缺乏嘛事實上現在移工來到台灣 他們的心態是什麼 他就是要走 要走 要賺錢"},{"start":389.244,"end":417.793,"text":"我們也是欠勞動力啊給他們第二份工作這個是一個可以考慮的我先補充因為確實因為整體的移工政策他基本上他入國以後他就是跟著一個雇主是啊他就一個雇主他就是因為在我們的救福法裡面他就必須跟著一個雇主所以某個部分來講因為他跟著這個雇主那雇主要負責很多他相關的管理的這件事情所以剛才說為什麼我們在一些地方比方製造業我們其實有A廠B調他是同一個雇主"},{"start":418.852,"end":436.521,"text":"他在同一個雇主的情況之下他可能不同的工作的那個工廠他可以去做一定比例的調度但他是在一個同一個雇主的概念之下因為這個在我們整體的法規的架構裡面是這樣這樣子所以我就說這當然你們會涉及到一個更大的"},{"start":438.421,"end":462.429,"text":"從這30年來的移工政策的邏輯就是它進來它的確它是必須跟著一個雇主這就法規上面來說是這樣子現在就是一個雇主所以就變成說我們在A場B調的架構一樣是在一個雇主的情況那當然我提出的就是說一個雇主這個概念也許現在在勞動力極度缺乏的狀況之下而且移工本身也會有這樣的意願的情況也許我們可以去考慮"},{"start":463.129,"end":489.464,"text":"不然比方說像農業的移工農業移工比方有農業的外展外展他是因為他可能就是在他有一個雇主但是這個雇主他可以把他調在某些地方上面去做外展的調度那這也是他也是跟著一個雇主所以我們也都是盡量希望能夠在現有的法規架構下面怎麼讓這個包括產業包括移工其實大家有更多在這裡面的一個平衡我們一直在想這個事情好啊我覺得這部分再研究一下盡量說"},{"start":491.845,"end":513.1,"text":"勞動力是需要更多的補充啊如果移工就是勞動力的補充盡量才這方面能夠開放的盡量開放是有聽懂謝謝好謝謝謝謝蔡宇委員那本日會議詢答全部結束委員陳金輝王玉敏所提書面質詢列入"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}