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楊瓊英發言 邀請部長我們請部長委員好"},{"start":21.021,"end":42.963,"text":"部長好 我們看到農業部在10月10號放寬了政策性的農業專案貸款的規定它包括了把時間延長登記的時間也有提高災貸的額度以及貸款的期限"},{"start":43.704,"end":57.44,"text":"還有放寬他的這個款項的限制跟擴大園區那優惠貸款的支應方法那這個擴大園區是針對在桃園的物流是嗎"},{"start":59.022,"end":74.589,"text":"是嗎 是是喔那所以我們預估你每一年大概是13億的這個貸款額度那受惠大概是990人大概是這個在你們的報告書上面所說那這個政策目的要做什麼"},{"start":75.509,"end":102.311,"text":"我想其實我們最主要做金融的支持減輕它經濟的負擔是 這個目的是要照顧農漁民嘛對不對 是這個目的你的內容在你10月10號裡頭是針對於年限跟額度的一個做調整那所以本席要跟你討論的是我們的小農本席要請教因為你們資料還沒給本席那就直接請部長你來回答"},{"start":103.172,"end":129.645,"text":"小農的部分歷年比如說去年前年小農的貸款額度大概佔你們13億裡頭的幾分之幾啊小農的額度佔他90%小農的額度他的件數大概是99%裡面的金額大概是90%金額跟件數都是90%那他的成效呢我這邊得到的資料就是請教他的成效呢"},{"start":130.598,"end":154.073,"text":"你的具體評估跟你的監督配套是怎麼樣我想基本上我們貸款我們有不同的專案貸款的部分然後這些專案貸款其實都是小農所需要的當然 因為我們是要照顧農漁民嘛看這個貸款進去以後它的經營效率會不會因為我們的貸款給他的以後他去改善這些相關的設計設備"},{"start":155.114,"end":172.795,"text":"所以本席要具體了解因為我們一直在努力嘛一直在努力小農有很多的都是青農我們一直在努力協助我們的青農因為青農返鄉這是我們很希望要能夠一直一直逐年的落實對不對"},{"start":173.536,"end":199.838,"text":"那所以本席也就希望在你们10月10号的公告的这个部分上次本席跟你讨论过因为地球暖化的问题有很多我们种植的方式不管有温室或者是它的这个盆架我们以前没有想到这些会毁损的那这些栽损我们要列入那这些贷款我如果要做温室的我这个贷款要怎么样能够把这些它们"},{"start":201.278,"end":219.506,"text":"實際上我們的小農真正需要的項目去列入這個才是你公告最重要的這個內容嘛是不是才能夠真正落實嘛委員一直提醒我們做這件事情其實我們也真正在做就是小農需要的可能跟一般農民需要的不一樣"},{"start":220.146,"end":237.382,"text":"所以我们针对小龙需要的这些经营的设备或其他的部分的贷款的部分应该给予特殊的这些你要给予特殊这个特殊是什么是落实他们所需是落实这个简便因为你如果搞得很复杂"},{"start":238.993,"end":256.748,"text":"那小農就沒用處啊這樣不好所以針對於你們這個公告本席非常的重視我請你去檢討我們小農的貸款項目年限要怎麼樣簡便務實真正的照顧我們農民而不是"},{"start":257.769,"end":273.621,"text":"讓他們得不到真正務實的幫助好不好你把你那個小農要怎麼樣做方式順便資料給本席我想把這些後續對小農的部分我們再提供資料對 很重要接下來本席要跟你討論出口量一直下滑為什麼"},{"start":274.602,"end":296.383,"text":"我們投入了21億元那你在115年度的預算裡頭我也看到你也編了4億我們看到這一個你是不斷的下滑我看到110年度56億美元到113年度是49億美元台灣的任何的農漁產都是世界一流"},{"start":297.444,"end":316.926,"text":"照理講你應該是一直增加我們預算編列目的就是要去宣導啊可是我們的答案是給我下降啊我心會痛欸這是我們最棒的農產品欸我們應該跟世界接軌分享而且這也是最好的國際外交啊"},{"start":317.907,"end":344.602,"text":"是不是那为什么会下滑我跟委员报告大概有两个原因第一个原因就是我们本身国内的产品因为今年度比较多的这些天后造成的产量相对的有减产的部分第二个部分就是我们也观察到从4月以后它的出口值变少了不只是美国因为台北的这个关税谈判美国其中的关税谈判是对全世界各国的所以现在有非常多的这些其他国家的"},{"start":345.322,"end":370.668,"text":"这些外销额也开始停顿我举个例子 蝴蝶兰就是一个例子蝴蝶兰不只是对美国它的量大概减少了5%全世界其他国家也差不多减少了5%所以它整体的这些影响很多都造成光旺 特别是光旺的性质部长 你回答到这里就是我们要讨论的主轴不是比赖"},{"start":371.941,"end":381.946,"text":"最危機的時候就是我們政府發揮力量最重要的關鍵時刻剛剛本席已經告訴你110年是56億你到了113年 你的111年 112年"},{"start":388.325,"end":404.764,"text":"你不要去找一些不是理由的理由因為我們有最好的這個品質最好的農特產我們在整個應對全國全世界的一個布局跟資源的分配還有你們宣導溝通"},{"start":407.97,"end":434.788,"text":"交流的一个方法要怎么样去做调整要怎么样去做调整这是本席今天给你的功课这才是我们农民所需要的对不对就像你刚才说的我们兰花这一次我到日本试博我们的兰花是全世界各国都非常喜欢我们的蝴蝶兰在打上那个咪咪哇 这个是太迷人了"},{"start":435.763,"end":460.298,"text":"對不對 所以我們要運用各種方法是危機就是我們最好的時機這是政府必須要做的事情好不好 你去研擬看到這個數字下方 沒有什麼理由政府就是要負責負責任的去調整你的腳步 調整你的資源分配調整你的方法 才能夠真正幫助我們的農民"},{"start":462.012,"end":487.949,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們會來做更精進的一個更精進的方案給本席多久給本席多久時間可以給本席一個月一個月要趕快進走我覺得因為我們現在也正在評估我剛才說的台美關稅的這些衝擊你正在評估好你的一個月好好的去佈局方式給本席接下來一個議題我跟你討論動保團體跟野保"},{"start":491.107,"end":510.624,"text":"他們兩個意見不合 這怎麼辦為什麼意見不合 是你自己的政策在打架所以在這種情況之下 我們10月7號看到餵養的問題到底你在我們的自然保護區 自然保留區以及動物的野生動物保護區這個區塊認為"},{"start":514.287,"end":528.977,"text":"餵養他是有幫助因為你要TNVR你餵養你才抓得到嘛對不對你才可以拿這個貓狗拿到他這個抓到他可以TNVR可以把他結紮嘛這個概念是對的"},{"start":530.078,"end":545.93,"text":"但是另外一邊又認為你餵養會影響到我整個自然生態那你是主席 事者單位兩個單位都對 都很重要那你要怎麼樣去溝通 去協調我想這個對於我們整個的一個生態是非常重要"},{"start":549.893,"end":576.894,"text":"政府的政策如果對如果經過溝通大家怎麼樣協調嘛你不能任由他們兩個單位野保跟動保兩個意見不合那要怎麼辦呢請教我第一個跟委員報告我們的針對餵養的政策裡面我們針對野保跟自然保留區自然保護區因為這裡的生態野生動物比較多所以我們這邊是禁止餵養這個大家沒有爭議然後針對非這些地區的我們是用熱區的概念"},{"start":577.894,"end":595.62,"text":"這些熱區我們就比較高強度的禁止餵養但是是有條件的禁止餵養有一個餵養管理而不是說什麼都不能餵就像你剛才說的我們跟動保跟野保團體我們也持續的叫在雙方的溝通之下看看有沒有辦法得到一個共識好"},{"start":596.755,"end":619.335,"text":"部長你講到這重點了目前你們所溝通的還是兩個團體他仍舊沒有辦法去整個協調完成因為認知還是不一樣所以你們必須還要加緊腳步請他們來溝通不管是你樂區或者是你的保護區保留區野生動物的區"},{"start":620.256,"end":621.758,"text":"我想這個是國家的寶貝你必須要好好的去再加強跟他們溝通好不好不能任由兩個團體自己一見不可這不行的拉他們兩個團體坐下來一起談好 坐下來談了結果怎麼樣給本席謝謝楊瓊英委員的質詢謝謝謝謝部長謝謝我們現在請"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":294,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時19分）謝謝主席。楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。我們看到農業部在10月10號放寬了政策性農業專案貸款的規定，包括把登記的時間延長，同時也提高災貸的額度以及貸款的期限，還有放寬款項的限制及擴大園區。關於優惠貸款的支應辦法，擴大園區是針對在桃園的物流是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：根據你們的報告書，預估每一年大概是13億的貸款額度，受惠大概是990人，請問這項政策的目的是要做什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我們最主要做金融的支持，減輕他經濟的負擔，這是一個非常……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個目的是要照顧農漁民嘛，對不對？就是這個目的。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在你10月10號公告的內容裡頭，是針對年限及額度做調整。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要跟你討論的是我們的小農，因為你們資料還沒給本席，所以我就直接請部長來回答。針對小農的部分，比如去年和前年，小農的貸款額度大概占13億裡頭的幾分之幾？"],["陳部長駿季：小農的額度占了大概90%，它的件數占了99%，金額大概是占90%。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：金額跟件數都是90%……"],["陳部長駿季：90%以上，對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那它的成效呢？"],["陳部長駿季：根據我這邊得到的資料……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教它的成效呢？你的具體評估跟你的監督配套是怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上我們有不同的專案貸款，這些專案貸款其實都是小農所需要的，這些需要……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然！因為我們是要照顧農漁民嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們會去看這些貸款進去以後，他的經營效率會不會因為我們的貸款給他了以後，他去改善相關的設施和設備。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席想要具體了解，因為我們一直在努力，小農有很多都是青農，我們一直在努力協助我們的青農，因為我們一直都希望青農返鄉能夠逐年落實，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以針對你們10月10號公告的部分，上次本席跟你討論過，因為地球暖化的問題，有很多種植的方式，不管是溫室或者是棚架，我們以前沒有想過這些會毀損，這些災損我們要列入。關於這些貸款，如果要做溫室的，貸款要怎麼樣把小農實際真正需要的項目列入，這才是你公告最重要的內容嘛，是不是？這樣才能夠真正落實嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對，委員一直提醒我們做這件事情，其實我們也真正在做，就是小農需要的可能跟一般農民需要的不一樣，所以我們針對小農需要的這些經營的設備或其他部分的貸款，應該給予特殊的設計。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要給予特殊，這個特殊是什麼？是落實他們所需、是落實簡便。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為你如果搞得很複雜，小農就沒興趣了，這樣不好。所以針對你們的公告，本席非常重視，我請你去檢討小農的貸款項目、年限要怎麼樣簡便、務實，真正的照顧農民，而不是讓他們得不到真正務實的幫助，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：針對小農要怎麼樣做的方式，順便把資料給本席。"],["陳部長駿季：好，後續針對小農的部分，我們再提供資料給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，這很重要。","接下來本席要跟你討論出口量一直下滑，為什麼？我們投入了21億元，在115年度的預算當中，我看到你們也編了4億，但我們看到出口量卻是不斷的下滑，110年度是56億美元，到113年度是49億美元，臺灣任何的農漁產都是世界一流，照理講應該是一直增加，我們預算編列的目的就是要去宣導，可是給我們的答案卻是下降啊！我心會痛耶！這是我們最棒的農產品，我們應該跟世界接軌、分享，而且這也是最好的國際外交，是不是？那為什麼會下滑？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，大概有兩個原因：第一個原因是國內本身的產品，因為今年度比較多的天候因素造成產量相對減產。第二個部分是我們也觀察到從4月以後它的出口值變少了，不只是美國，因為美國啟動的關稅談判是對全世界各國的，所以現在有非常多其他國家的外銷額也開始停頓，我舉個例子，蝴蝶蘭就是一個例子，蝴蝶蘭不只是對美國的量大概減少5%，全世界其他國家也差不多減少5%，所以它整體的影響很多都造成觀望，特別是觀望的性質，由我們的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你回答到這裡就是我們要討論的主軸。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是比爛……"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最危機的時候就是我們政府發揮力量最重要的關鍵時刻。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：剛剛本席已經告訴你，110年是56億，到了113年，你的111年112年……你不要去找一些不是理由的理由，因為我們有最好的品質、最好的農特產，我們在應對全世界的布局跟資源分配，還有你們宣導、溝通、交流的方法要怎麼樣去調整，這是本席今天給你的功課，這才是我們農民所需要的，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就像你剛才說的，這一次我到日本世博，我們的蘭花是全世界各國都非常喜歡的，我們的蝴蝶蘭再打上「脈脈」（世博吉祥物），哇！真是太迷人了，對不對？所以我們要運用各種方法，危機就是我們最好的時機，這是政府必須要做的事情，好不好？你去研擬，看到這個數字下滑，沒有什麼理由，政府就是要負責，負責任的去調整你的腳步、調整你的資源分配、調整你的方法，才能夠真正幫助農民。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒，我們會來做更精進的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：更精進的方案，多久時間可以給本席？"],["陳部長駿季：1個月。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：1個月？不用那麼久啦，要趕快、盡早。"],["陳部長駿季：因為我們現在也正在評估我剛才說的臺美關稅衝擊……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你正在評估，好，你1個月好好的去布局相關方式給本席。","接下來我跟你討論一個議題，動保跟野保團體兩個意見不合怎麼辦？為什麼意見不合？是你自己的政策在打架，在這種情況之下，我們10月7號看到餵養的問題，在我們的自然保護區、自然保留區以及動物的野生動物保護區這個區塊認為餵養是有幫助的，因為要TNVR，餵養才抓得到嘛，對不對？你才可以抓到貓、狗、可以TNVR、可以幫牠們結紮，這個概念是對的，但是另外一邊又認為餵養會影響到整個自然生態。你是主席、負責單位，兩個單位都對、都很重要，那你要怎麼樣去溝通、協調？這對於我們整個生態都非常重要，政府政策如果是對的，經過溝通，看大家怎麼樣協調，你不能任由他們兩個單位，野保跟動保意見不合，要怎麼辦呢？請教。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個，針對餵養的政策，對於野保跟自然保留區、自然保護區，因為這裡的野生動物比較多，所以那邊是禁止餵養，這個大家沒有爭議，針對這些地區是用熱區的概念，這些熱區就用比較高強度的禁止餵養，但是有條件的禁止餵養，有一個餵養管理，而不是什麼都不能餵，就像你剛才說的，我們跟動保和野保團體持續溝通，在雙方的溝通之下，看看有沒有辦法得到一個共識。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，部長你講到重點了，目前你們所溝通的兩個團體，他們仍舊沒有辦法協調完成。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為認知還是不一樣，所以你們必須還要加緊腳步。"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們持續來做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請他們來溝通，不管是熱區或者是保護區、保留區、野生動物的區域，我想這是國家的寶貝，你必須好好的再加強跟他們的溝通，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不能任由兩個團體意見不合，這不行的。"],["陳部長駿季：我們持續讓他們兩個團體坐下來一起談。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，坐下來談的結果怎麼樣再給本席。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢，謝謝部長。","我們現在請張啓楷委員質詢，謝衣鳯委員質詢完就休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-3","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra 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