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有請谷主委請谷主委主委好今天有一些比較我覺得蠻重要的問題所以沒關係我國語客語參雜我希望大家可以關注首先我要請問"},{"start":34.366,"end":63.576,"text":"因我们客家委员会客家委员会很重要的我们是要整个推动我们的客语还有客家文化甚至振兴我们客庄的经济对不对但是我很好奇有一点我们主委上任以来你应该要了解说我们整个台湾客家重点发展区"},{"start":64.485,"end":84.39,"text":"到底現在譬如說我們講客家話的人的情況逐年我們看我們的實施成效有沒有一些成果在過去我們客家文化重點發展區都有一些數據我看到我們客會從105年到110年都會去有一些數據分析"},{"start":90.404,"end":108.832,"text":"欸 要不然一百一十年以後就沒有了老VN補講 要調查是五年一百所以一百零五年 一百一十年所以一百零一百一十五 五年調查一百"},{"start":109.854,"end":135.602,"text":"兩年調查一百喔那總之我們一次政權是四年那都不知道那四年做得怎麼樣當然這中間有跨嘛可能是跨兩個政權所以原來是因為這樣所以等於是那這個是不是應該要調一下譬如兩年或三年因為挑白一開始的時間是兩年一百啦一開始是當年就調查後來兩年後來是五年因為喔"},{"start":137.443,"end":142.328,"text":"我會請專家學者來諮詢專家學者社會研究社會研究學者說一個比較可以長期看到的趨勢是五年所以就採用學者的建議五年就做一百"},{"start":156.341,"end":159.944,"text":"那這個我覺得就很危險了因為我們看到在105到110年我們不管是客庄的這種整體客家民眾能夠聽懂客語的比例"},{"start":172.555,"end":193.611,"text":"就下降了8%那這五年我們不知道包括這幾年我們每年這樣尤其主委上任這兩年我們也等於課會的預算快百億沒有也將近80億以上加上之前的沒有啦沒有啦兩年啦兩年加起來有80億啦"},{"start":198.314,"end":222.912,"text":"这个预算一年就三四十码总得用两年加那个算两年会供你的任期你现在在做着这两年所以每年几十亿这样总可以了每年几十亿这样子花结果我们都看不到成果那你看我们不管是课余听得懂课余的比例下降"},{"start":223.652,"end":251.188,"text":"还有这客语听说能力跌幅在非客庄地区当然重点是客庄非客庄地区也跌了快20% 16%所以像这些我们就发现你每5年才知道所以这个东西每年每年还是可以统计才对包含还有我们这个客家特别是我们的客庄地区人口流失"},{"start":252.108,"end":280.442,"text":"人口流失很多那你又要振興客庄的經濟那人口你又留不住這是很大的問題所以這一塊我們希望還是可以來研討一下看看不然三年嘛三年總要這個或者是我們只要換一個主委上來可能都要先確認一下了解一下現況這是第一個那再來就是我們這個看到"},{"start":282.386,"end":307.182,"text":"我们这个客家币我们客家币我们这个客家币这个花费那客家币最主要我们是希望可以振兴客庄的经济推动客语的传承那可是我们好像都没有振兴到客庄的经济尤其你们客家币的这个评估它的成效我发现"},{"start":308.402,"end":323.648,"text":"前後一直變化你們那個成效好像是隨你喊的沒有啦 因為一開始我們定的每個人領用的額度沒按到"},{"start":325.73,"end":343.249,"text":"五百八百後來是一千所以那個政策會一直討論一直討論最後才會定案那目前我們今年的這個客家幣好像預計發出重簽的是二十五萬四千七百二十二分"},{"start":346.152,"end":350.914,"text":"對 28萬那28萬4722份那但是你們評估的效益因為我發現我們這個客家幣是希望他們去客庄消費甚至我看你們都預估一個人會帶另一個人你們都覺得他最少會帶一位平均帶原來是根據"},{"start":376.227,"end":391.877,"text":"官网署这样子的推广但是不太适合客家币为什么因为你觉得他会带一个人但实际上我们发现你们可以去了解这客家币抽到以后他可能就是个人的日常消费"},{"start":392.967,"end":405.903,"text":"他可能就个人日常消费有一些也许他不再客装的他必须要去客装可能会有一些所以这一个部分的评估效益"},{"start":406.738,"end":435.637,"text":"我們感受沒有在振興我們客家所以我時間的關係我特別要提出來我們是不是可以振興客庄經濟那一般人尤其你又希望帶動消費的話一般人就是吃喝玩樂嘛對不對所以我們是不是可以扶植一些比較有特色的客家飲食包含比如說你講板條板條到處都有但是特別有特色的或者是你辦個比賽"},{"start":437.458,"end":455.546,"text":"那在客庄区全国的客庄区办比赛每个区块他真的很有特色他得奖的你特别扶植他然后他又特别有特色的你可以请一些专家来一些评审他们来评那特别有特色的"},{"start":456.386,"end":484.92,"text":"所有人听了知道以后他会带动一种观光效果那所以客家的美食是我指的是有特色因为我们客家美食到处都有那你到处都有最后好像也没有那种吸池效应还有点心客家的点心也是那有一些比较有特色的像这个牛粉水你不要动动动动你不要吃苦那所以"},{"start":485.32,"end":508.721,"text":"我們可以去找出這種特色甚至你們透過辦比賽找出特別有特色的你也可以特別的扶植我們總是希望我們納稅人的錢那客委會在用的時候真的能夠用出有成效然後再來就是客家的人口客家的語言客家的文化我們真正是能夠保存的"},{"start":510.522,"end":535.365,"text":"什麼其餘的意見要同時討論對 所以有一些細項我想我們這一個會期也剛好省預算在預算的時候我們可以在細部的來討論所以我們是支持 非常支持客委會我們也希望我們客家文化整個可以真的傳承而且保存下來"},{"start":536.046,"end":537.411,"text":"所以我們共同來努力"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":457,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時10分）謝謝主席，有請古主委。"],["主席：請古主委。"],["古主任委員秀妃：徐委員，你好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：主委好。今天有一些我覺得蠻重要的問題，沒關係，我國語、客語摻雜，希望大家可以關注。首先，我請問你，我們客家委員會很重要的任務之一是要推動我們的客語還有客家文化，甚至振興我們客庄的經濟，對不對？"],["古主任委員秀妃：沒錯。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是有一點我很好奇，我們主委上任以來，應該要了解整個臺灣客家重點發展區，譬如講客家話的人的情況，逐年來看我們的政策實施有沒有一些成果，過去我們客家文化重點發展區都有一些數據，客委會從105年到110年都會去分析這些數據，怎麼110年以後就沒有了？"],["古主任委員秀妃：跟委員報告，這個調查是5年一次，所以105年、110年做過，接下來就是明年115年，5年調查一次。"],["徐委員欣瑩：5年才調查一次？這樣不行，因為我們一次政權是4年，那都不知道那4年做得怎麼樣，當然這中間可能是跨兩個政權。原來是因為這樣，這個是不是應該要調一下，譬如改成2年或3年？"],["古主任委員秀妃：一開始是每年都調查，後來是2年一次，後來是5年一次，因為會請專家學者來諮詢、來進行社會研究調查……"],["徐委員欣瑩：那數據是怎麼出來的？"],["古主任委員秀妃：社會研究學者就說，一個比較可以長期看到的趨勢是5年，所以就採用了學者的建議，5年來做一次。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是這樣喔？那我就覺得很危險了，因為我們看到從105到110年，整體客家民眾能夠聽懂客語的比例就下降了8%，你知道吧？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我知道。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這5年尤其主委上任以後，這兩年客委會的預算每年快百億……"],["古主任委員秀妃：沒有啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有也將近，80億以上嘛，加上之前的……"],["古主任委員秀妃：沒有啦，一年沒有啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是啦，兩年啦，兩年加起來有80億啦。"],["古主任委員秀妃：一年才41億。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有啦，預算一年就三、四十億嘛！"],["古主任委員秀妃：不能用兩年加起來算啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，兩年是說你的任期，你現在在做的這兩年。好啦，每年幾十億，這樣總可以了吧？每年幾十億這樣子花，結果我們都看不到成果，不管是聽得懂客語的比例下降，還是有客語聽說能力的跌幅，當然重點是客庄，但非客庄地區也跌了16%，快20%，像這些你每5年才知道，還是應該每年統計才對。還有我們客庄地區的人口流失很多，你又要振興客庄的經濟，但人口你又留不住，這是很大的問題。所以這一塊我們希望還是可以來研討一下，看看能不能改成3年，或者是只要換一個主委上來就調查一次，可能都要先確認一下，了解一下現況，這是第一個。","再來就是客家幣，客家幣最主要是希望可以振興客庄的經濟，推動客語的傳承，可是我們好像都沒有振興到客庄的經濟，尤其你們對客家幣成效的評估，我發現前後一直變化，那個成效好像是隨你喊的。"],["古主任委員秀妃：不是啦，因為一開始我們訂的每個人領用的額度沒這麼多，就500、800……"],["徐委員欣瑩：後來是1,000嘛？"],["古主任委員秀妃：所以那個政策會一直討論，到最後才會定案。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那我們今年的客家幣好像中簽的是25萬4,722份。"],["古主任委員秀妃：對，再加上給客語認證通過的還有客語家庭的3萬份，總共發了28萬份。"],["徐委員欣瑩：28萬4,722份，但是你們評估的效益，因為這個客家幣是希望他們去客庄消費，我看你們都預估一個人最少會帶另一個人。"],["古主任委員秀妃：這是根據觀光署的推估，不是我們自己。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是不太適合客家幣，因為你覺得他會帶一個人，實際上我們發現，你們可以去了解，這客家幣抽到以後，它可能就是個人的日常消費，有一些人也許不在客庄，他必須要去客庄，可能會有一些，這個部分的效益評估，我們感覺沒有在振興我們客庄經濟。因為時間的關係，我特別要提出來，我們是不是可以振興客庄經濟，尤其你又希望帶動消費的話，一般人就是吃喝玩樂，對不對？所以我們是不是可以扶植一些比較有特色的客家飲食，譬如粄條，粄條到處都有，但是特別有特色的，或者你可以在全國客庄區辦比賽，找出每個區塊真的很有特色的、得獎的，特別去扶植它，你也可以請一些專家來評選出特別有特色的，等到所有人知道以後就會帶動一種觀光效果。所以客家美食，我指的是有特色的，因為我們客家美食到處都有，最後好像也沒有磁吸效應，還有客家點心也是，有一些比較有特色的像牛汶水，現在還有很多人沒吃過，我們可以去找出這種特色，甚至你們可以透過辦比賽找出特別有特色的，特別去扶植，我們總是希望客委會在用納稅人的錢的時候，真的能夠有成效。再來就是客家的人口、客家的語言、客家的文化，希望能夠真正的保存，可以嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：好，謝謝徐委員，你的意見我會跟同仁來討論、來執行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，有一些細項，我們這一個會期也剛好審預算，在審預算的時候，我們可以再作細部的討論。所以我們非常支持客委會，我們也希望客家文化可以真的保存而且傳承下來，我們共同來努力。"],["古主任委員秀妃：好，謝謝徐委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","現在請楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請葉元之委員，葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","賴惠員委員、賴惠員委員，賴惠員委員不在。","林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在。","邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員，邱志偉委員不在。","羅明才委員、羅明才委員，羅明才委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","現在請徐富癸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-4","speakers":["黃建賓","王美惠","張智倫","蘇巧慧","黃捷","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","張宏陸","許宇甄","李柏毅","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","徐富癸","高金素梅","丁學忠"],"page_start":31,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}