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陳主席長我們請陳主席長委員好整個現在世界的經濟成長情況因為美中"},{"start":30.26,"end":53.556,"text":"這個關稅戰的關係影響了很大的佈局現在昨天又宣布要收港口稅兩邊就這樣對來對去你對於現在台灣明年度的經濟成長的預測情況是怎麼樣我們目前大概是預測明年差不多2.8億左右"},{"start":58.376,"end":75.447,"text":"比央行預測的還要高那IMF這個機構已經預測明年的經濟是往下滑的啊那台灣的情況怎麼樣"},{"start":76.274,"end":103.314,"text":"它其實要分一個是傳產的一個產業那一個就是一般AI的一個產業那這AI的產業它是其實是也還持續看好但是傳統產業的這個部分所以這就是我們任性預算裡面要一個協助的一個重點 是這樣現在整個台灣的經濟發展以及民間的結構事實上跟以往傳統的發展是不一樣的"},{"start":104.571,"end":129.256,"text":"主席長 過去一些傳產的部分大概有三分之二的這些上市上櫃公司它的股價沒漲反而跌跌破20年線那我們就發現這個世界在變台灣的經濟表現跟相較於全世界來講我們還可以 為什麼"},{"start":131.767,"end":160.694,"text":"因為我們是有AI產業還有機動產業的一個助力我們就是靠一個台積電護國神山以及周邊大概是四五十家跟AI有相關性的成長特別的熱我們很顯然就看到說世界在改變還好台灣有台積還好台灣有AI"},{"start":161.877,"end":186.205,"text":"那在你的報告當中也講到這個以後AI的一個概念那請問那現在輝達到底要不要留在台灣我想各地方政府都在努力當中好 那每個人需不需要多努力是 都需要努力你們有什麼可以努力的地方這個部分 以我們來講的部分"},{"start":188.004,"end":201.68,"text":"我們大概是譬如說有哪些需要產業協助的部分我們也能夠中央能夠來盡力這樣子產業協助你們也可以做什麼樣的協助這要看經濟部那邊他要怎麼樣來處理"},{"start":203.646,"end":232.015,"text":"我想一般的國際大廠如果要真正要落地總部要設在這邊周遭的環境就很重要當然是交通 醫療你總部放這邊就有一些學生就學的這個問題周邊還有生活圈等等所以我在看就是回歸到一個就是當然比較重視的"},{"start":233.872,"end":255.724,"text":"財政收支劃分法你要讓地方政府有能力把這些經費好好的去推動下水道 至少不要淹水嘛你看上次高雄啊淹大水台南也淹水就改變了什麼改變了這些國際大廠"},{"start":258.962,"end":286.738,"text":"落戶的考量嘛聽說現在嘉義他們都不去了是不是應該不會吧有要去嗎還是有啊台積電幾場不都停工了還會再去嗎高雄會去嗎有啊會去嗎 哪一家會去目前高雄就有在那個那個高雄他在那個叫什麼"},{"start":288.137,"end":307.79,"text":"男子交通區不是不是男子 另外一個那個叫什麼沒有啦 現在很多小孩不敢去了不會啦最主要就是淹水你想想看喔那這些機器設備那麼的重要淹了一次以後誰敢保證說不會淹"},{"start":309.977,"end":337.546,"text":"所以就是下水道等等周邊治山防洪的這些經費的問題我們就再繞回來看就是財化法本息來自新北那你們今年對新北的地方性一般的補助少了多少我們新北400多萬的人口"},{"start":338.802,"end":364.921,"text":"本來平均下來給我們地方的就少現在還東扣西扣連一般性的補助都少了那你一少變成我自主的財源裡面就切出一塊來彌補這個地方那變成左右漸左少了多少 主席長增加了增加多少"},{"start":368.223,"end":396.828,"text":"增加89今年增加89對 一般性補助可是我們本來預期是應該有200多啊整個是多了209億它是 整個是 重量易住財它整個是多209億那你可能就是那個專案補助的部分增加吧沒有 計畫型補助我們一般性補助它是有增加所以整個"},{"start":399.652,"end":422.961,"text":"從總分配稅款他增加415那你如果有增加的話按照道理那地方的縣市首長要感謝你啊那為什麼我們侯市長他感覺經費是不足的啊中央是應該多多編下來多多來支持地方的那請問你你有沒有跟侯市長有溝通過"},{"start":424.141,"end":448.002,"text":"我們這個有行政院我們院長有召開一個縣市長的一個相關的一個討論的會議也有邀請 何市長也有參加那他說了什麼對 這個部分他是說如果是屬於地方應該負擔的部分他們會負起責任 是這樣對 那是他負的責任嘛那他當然是希望說中央能可以多多的補助啊"},{"start":448.82,"end":459.931,"text":"我們也盡量我們也希望能夠多多補助但是就是力有未待因為我們被拿掉4165億之後我們沒有能力繼續維持原來的補助"},{"start":460.578,"end":468.845,"text":"外界都搞不清楚我們每年稅收都超徵去年超徵了5280億前年累積這幾年超徵了一兆8000億大家在問 奇怪為什麼主計總處這邊你還要喊說沒錢錢跑去哪裡了"},{"start":480.578,"end":500.987,"text":"我要跟委員講像去年你說去年超生五千多億那這五千多億中央拿到的是三千多億其他的是地方拿走了那三千多億整個到一個叫做累積剩餘裡面去那以一百一十三年度整個累積剩餘是八千三百九十三億那這個部分他去挹注那個那個那個那個"},{"start":501.687,"end":509.112,"text":"後的特別預算還有特別戰機的一個部分整個拿掉之後4444億支援這一次的韌性預算還要舉債1056億"},{"start":514.264,"end":542.636,"text":"我們地方所有的建設熬熬待補希望主計長能多多體恤民情多多關愛的眼神來照顧我們新北的發展我們也希望盡量我們繳稅繳那麼多可是得到的福利跟待遇卻覺得天壤之別所以希望包括交通 捷運等等我們都需要仰賴"},{"start":544.079,"end":572.239,"text":"中央的多多支持才有辦法來推動比如說我們深坑地區深坑輕軌你們準備補助多少輕軌的部分深坑 對 深坑輕軌還有像我們新店的第二運動中心在安坑地區我們也爭取要做一個運動中心我們都吃吃的在等可不可以在這個部分你們可以多多的協助"},{"start":573.102,"end":598.767,"text":"這個是由各部會計劃型的補助是由各部會來負責我們都提出了計劃型的補助深坑輕軌大概280多億吧我們也希望看交通部來審查的一個情形那如果都審查通過的話主計總署主委長那邊可不可以多多支持如果交通部審查通過他會按財力分級去做分配那分配的情形之後編列預算這個部分我們就會來支持"},{"start":600.949,"end":612.333,"text":"請大力支持因為都等很久了因為再繞回來就是這個軍人加薪的部分剛剛很多委員都提到我們都通過啊你們為什麼不編這一點"},{"start":614.918,"end":641.563,"text":"請你多多考量一下軍人保家衛國非常辛苦那該加薪的部分一定要予以照顧還有退休軍警銷他們的一些基本的一些權利跟義務也應該多多照顧了現在萬物飆漲就是這一些最基層的公務人員得不到政府的關懷今年度有沒有加薪"},{"start":643.635,"end":668.83,"text":"今年沒有加薪明年度會不會加薪115沒有加薪也沒加今年114有加薪115沒加可是你這樣加薪今年加也沒加幾%百分之四百分之四百分之三雞腿便當本來70塊現在都漲到140了它是漲了一倍結果你說你加薪3塊錢"},{"start":671.179,"end":697.331,"text":"等於一個便當多70塊中央你只給我3塊錢那我缺的67塊我找誰拿啊所以現在基本的員工公務人員的心情就是說你加3%趕不上物價飆漲的速度所以怎麼辦這個就是我們考量所以現在國內情況就是"},{"start":698.479,"end":718.945,"text":"年輕人不敢生生了怕養不起造成這個國安的問題所以希望竹記長可以多多想一下錢能幫忙多照顧年輕人多照顧地方好不好是謝謝好 我們謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":814,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（11時16分）謝謝召委、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，有請陳淑姿主計長。"],["主席：我們請陳主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：現在整個世界的經濟成長情況，因為美中關稅戰的關係影響了很大的布局。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["羅委員明才：昨天又宣布要收港口稅，兩邊就這樣對來對去，你對臺灣明年度經濟成長的預測情況是怎麼樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們目前是預測明年差不多是百分之二點多啦，在2.81%左右。"],["羅委員明才：比央行預測的還要高。"],["陳主計長淑姿：對。"],["羅委員明才：IMF這個機構已經預測明年的經濟是往下滑的。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["羅委員明才：臺灣的情況怎麼樣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這其實要分，一個是傳產（傳統產業），一個就是一般AI的產業，AI的產業其實還是持續看好，但是傳統產業的這個部分，這就是我們韌性預算裡面要協助的一個重點，是這樣的。"],["羅委員明才：現在整個臺灣的經濟發展以及民間的結構，事實上跟以往傳統的發展是不一樣的。主計長，過去就傳產的部分，大概有三分之二的上市上櫃公司，他的股價沒漲反而跌，還跌破20年線。我們就發現這個世界在變，臺灣的經濟表現相較於全世界來講算是還可以，為什麼？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為我們有AI產業，還有資通產業的助力。"],["羅委員明才：對，我們就是靠台積電這個護國神山，以及周邊大概有四、五十家跟AI有相關性的，所以成長特別地熱。我們很顯然可以看到世界在改變，還好臺灣有台積電，還好臺灣有AI。在你的報告當中也講到以後AI的概念，請問現在輝達到底要不要留在臺灣？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我想各地方政府都在努力當中。"],["羅委員明才：那每個人需不需要多努力？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，都需要努力。"],["羅委員明才：你們有什麼可以努力的地方？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分，以我們來講，譬如有哪些產業需要協助的部分，我們中央也能夠來盡力，這樣子。"],["羅委員明才：有關產業協助，你們可以做什麼樣的協助？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這要看經濟部那邊要怎麼樣來處理。"],["羅委員明才：我想一般的國際大廠如果要真正地落地，總部要設在這邊，周遭的環境就很重要，像是交通、醫療、學生就學問題及生活圈等等，因此，回歸到大家比較重視的一點，財政收支劃分法，你要讓地方政府有能力好好的推動使用這些經費，至少下水道不要淹水嘛！你看上次高雄淹大水、臺南也淹水，改變了什麼？改變了這些國際大廠落戶的考量嘛！聽說他們現在都不去嘉義了，是不是？"],["陳主計長淑姿：應該不會吧！"],["羅委員明才：有要去嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：還是有啊！"],["羅委員明才：台積電幾廠不是都停工了，還會再去嗎？會去高雄嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：有啊！"],["羅委員明才：哪一家會去？"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前在高雄那個……"],["羅委員明才：楠梓加工區？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是、不是楠梓，是另外一個……"],["羅委員明才：現在很多廠商「驚驚」不敢去了！"],["陳主計長淑姿：不會啦！"],["羅委員明才：最主要是會淹水，你想想看，機器設備那麼的重要，淹了一次之後，誰敢保證不會再淹？因此，下水道及周邊治山防洪的經費問題相當重要。我們再繞回來看，財劃法，因為本席來自於新北市，你們今年對於新北市的地方一般性補助少了多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：一般性的補助……"],["羅委員明才：我們新北市有四百多萬的人口，本來平均下來給我們地方的就少，現在還東扣西扣，連一般性的補助都少了，變成我們的自主性財源要切出一塊來彌補這個地方、變成左右見絀，少了多少，主計長？"],["陳主計長淑姿：增加啦！"],["羅委員明才：增加多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：增加89。"],["羅委員明才：今年增加89？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，一般性補助。"],["羅委員明才：但我們原本預期應該要有二百多啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：中央挹注之後，它整個是多了209億元。"],["羅委員明才：可能是專案補助的部分增加吧？"],["陳主計長淑姿：沒有，一般性補助是有增加，所以整個統籌分配稅款增加了415億元。"],["羅委員明才：如果有增加的話，照理講，地方的縣市首長要感謝你，為什麼侯市長感覺經費是不足的啊？中央應該要多多編列預算支持地方，請問你是否與侯市長溝通過？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們院長有召開與縣市長的相關討論會議，侯市長也有參加。"],["羅委員明才：他說了什麼？"],["陳主計長淑姿：他說如果是屬於地方應該負擔的部分，他們會負起責任。"],["羅委員明才：對，那是他要負的責任，但他當然也是希望中央能給予多多的補助啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們也是儘量啊！我們也希望能夠多多補助，但是力有未逮，在我們被拿掉4,165億元之後，沒有能力繼續維持原來的補助了。"],["羅委員明才：外界都搞不清楚，我們每年的稅收都超徵，去年超徵了5,280億元，前年加上這幾年的累積總共超徵了1兆8,000億元，大家都在問，奇怪，為什麼主計總處這邊還要喊沒錢？錢跑去哪裡了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我要告訴委員，你說去年超徵五千多億元，中央拿到三千多億元，其它的是地方拿走了，而且三千多億元整個是歸到累計賸餘。以113年度為例，整個累計賸餘是8,393億元，挹注到疫後的特別預算以及戰機的部分，整個拿掉之後，編列4,444億元支援這次的韌性預算，還要舉債1,056億元。"],["羅委員明才：我們地方所有的建設嗷嗷待哺，希望主計長能多多體恤民情、多多給予關愛的眼神，照顧我們新北市的發展……"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們也希望能儘量。"],["羅委員明才：事實上，我們繳了那麼多稅，但是得到的福利及待遇卻感覺是天壤之別，包括交通，譬如捷運等等，我們都需要仰賴中央多多支持，才有辦法能夠推動。譬如深坑輕軌，你們準備補助多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：輕軌的部分……"],["羅委員明才：除了深坑輕軌，還有我們新店的第二運動中心，在安坑地區我們也爭取要蓋第二運動中心，我們都癡癡地在等，你們能否在這個部分給予多多的協助？"],["陳主計長淑姿：計畫型的補助是由各部會負責，不是我們……"],["羅委員明才：對，我們已經提出計畫型的補助，深坑輕軌大概是二百八十多億元，希望中……"],["陳主計長淑姿：那要看交通部審查的情形。"],["羅委員明才：如果審查通過的話，主計長這邊可不可以多多支持？"],["陳主計長淑姿：如果交通部審查通過，它會按財力分級去做分配，分配之後編列預算，我們就會來支持。"],["羅委員明才：請大力支持，因為我們等很久了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["羅委員明才：再繞回來，關於軍人加薪的部分，剛剛很多委員都提到，我們已經通過了，你們為什麼不編？關於這一點，請你多多的考量，軍人保家衛國非常的辛苦，該加薪的部分一定要予以照顧。此外，還有退休軍警消基本的權益及義務也應該要多多照顧，現在萬物飆漲，但是這些最基層的公務人員得不到政府的關懷，今年度有沒有加薪？"],["陳主計長淑姿：今年沒有加薪。"],["羅委員明才：明年度會不會加薪？"],["陳主計長淑姿：115年度沒有加薪。"],["羅委員明才：也沒加啊？"],["陳主計長淑姿：今年（114年度）有加薪。"],["羅委員明才：115年度沒加啊？"],["陳主計長淑姿：沒有加。"],["羅委員明才：但是今年也沒加幾趴啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：4%。"],["羅委員明才：4%啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：3%。"],["羅委員明才：3%嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["羅委員明才：原本雞腿便當是70元，現在都漲到140元了，漲了1倍，結果你們只加薪3元。"],["陳主計長淑姿：已經連續二年加薪了。"],["羅委員明才：等於一個便當多了70元，中央只給我3元，不足的67元要找誰拿啊！現在公務人員的心情就是加3%趕不上物價飆漲的速度，怎麼辦？這個就是我們的考量。現在國內的情況就是年輕人不敢生，生了怕養不起，造成了國安的問題，希望主計長可以多多想一下，在錢的方面多多照顧年輕人及地方，好不好？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝。"],["主席：我們謝謝羅明才委員。接下來請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-2","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","羅明才","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","林思銘","王世堅","陳玉珍"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}