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報告指責就是支持產業安定就業照顧弱勢加強韌性但是我相信所有的報告裡面你都提到當然很多"},{"start":35.953,"end":49.463,"text":"但是最重要就是跟美國的對等關稅對台灣農業的一個影響我看你一個報告裡面這樣寫美國是我國最重要的農產品貿易夥伴我們台灣為美國今年113年是進口了36.9億佔我們農業產品的22.3%"},{"start":65.348,"end":91.1,"text":"阿美國 臺灣是美國第八大的海外市場農產政府我們只要進口黃豆 玉米 小麥 牛肉對不對是再來你另外一個報告這樣寫說我們臺灣外銷到美國大概我們一年的話8.9億美金"},{"start":97.48,"end":112.167,"text":"加上我們出口的農產品17.6%這裏面你說我們外銷美國最多的幾個產品蝴蝶蘭 茶葉 毛豆 吳郭魚 桂頭魚 鱸魚 蟋蟀 這種比較高"},{"start":117.433,"end":142.008,"text":"看你的報告裡面 你講蝴蝶蘭其他國家跟我沒有競爭 只有荷蘭對不對主要的競爭對手是荷蘭茶葉 我們做高精緻的茶葉沒有影響我們做混合茶才有影響混合茶是從越南進口 台灣再去調配的"},{"start":144.344,"end":149.773,"text":"毛豆我們的競爭對手是中國大陸中國大陸現在57% 100%化也不是我們競爭對手"},{"start":155.219,"end":177.588,"text":"那烏龜魚裡面銷到美國的時候只要是越南 中國大陸這幾個國家關稅都比我們還要高 也不是我們的對手過頭魚我就跟你們說是在中南美洲 秘魯那個地方產的 我們這邊銷吃劑當然品質有差這一點我比較沒內行 我不跟你們說"},{"start":183.1,"end":203.276,"text":"阿魯伊也是在中南美洲 我們台灣區土耳其土耳其啦 我跟你講 土耳其現在的關稅也非常的高所以你們要清楚 美國的最多關稅啊其實跟我們農業影響不大但是這裡面我常常想一個問題"},{"start":204.949,"end":228.615,"text":"你說帶藥團到美國四年要買100億美金的美國農產品對不對?對不對?那個不用說 等我問完你再說嘛我疑問點要講出來啦你自我表白我怎麼相信這台電容纜黃豆玉米小麥牛肉我為什麼談?"},{"start":230.117,"end":233.839,"text":"所以100億的美金 四年100億的美金我講得情緒不好 但是我們現在就進口大概這四種產品36.9億 37億"},{"start":246.863,"end":262.351,"text":"你現在說四年一百億我再給你一年給二十五億美金要賺多少錢你要叫台灣去給我賺所以我覺得莫名其妙你說不是政府出錢了"},{"start":263.451,"end":282.71,"text":"是那些產商出錢的 廠商沒辦法供啊你有沒有想到他有賣啦 台灣的需要量容納量有沒有那麼大哇 你講得迷迷糊糊 我是說你高雄資訊的都要講我可不可以做一點說明我們現在給你記喔 37億是這四種產品喔"},{"start":287.489,"end":302.604,"text":"大量進口 你現在又4年100億 又多1個月比現在37億大概增加70%從美國進口 每一年喔我感覺你算是賣亂搞八道啦"},{"start":303.732,"end":308.376,"text":"讓我很清楚的講我們這次的這樣的一個採購他是每兩年一次的例行採購那這個例行採購是業者自己去出資的你聽我說完好不好然後不然我每次都講不清楚"},{"start":324.147,"end":340.761,"text":"然後本身我們簽的是購買的意願書不是購買的合約所以最後因為商人還是會看最後的價格所以這次是聯合採購是業者根據他的需求去採購的意願而已先去表達"},{"start":341.522,"end":360.449,"text":"不一定要買最後一般就是最後因為現在美國的品質比較好價格也比較低所以相對的用年的採購會降低他們的採購成本第二個就是說這些產品他最主要是飼料用的沒有啦 我跟你講一個問題嘛現在37億美金是103年的進口嘛"},{"start":365.831,"end":382.076,"text":"你兩人採購一次 美國人也可以算你不用跟我說 你說那個你4年內 我假設一年增加25億不是增加 不是增加 是包含在不過30 36億乘以4620 150億了你講100億的話 怎麼會通嘛"},{"start":390.18,"end":402.268,"text":"你再拼著要救人嘛 這個一定是增加的嘛我們現在平均一年25億 四年100億那過去五年這些項目加起來也是22到25億之間"},{"start":405.421,"end":420.981,"text":"那就是沒有選擇 要怎麼幫你不是 我們是用沒有 因為我們的採購年度的採購每兩年一次我跟你講 不是採購你依照這樣的算法沒有增加你去的功效也沒有多大"},{"start":422.09,"end":436.695,"text":"我們主要就是為了對等干稅看能不能降到像日本 韓國一樣我跟你講 大家不要說假話你這樣算起來沒有增加他有什麼好高興說你很偉大把你巴結得很好"},{"start":437.495,"end":456.206,"text":"一定是你四年中交的100億美金嘛我們這次的農法南區有兩個目的一個目的就是聯合採購一方面就是我們希望建立一個長久穩定的一個關係就是友好的關係所以採購本身比113年度因為他是根據當年度的價格會浮動"},{"start":457.006,"end":480.503,"text":"所以是我們需要的我不是價格浮動啊我現在說4年裡面1年給1個月不是增加是原來的25億我們就給他買1個月啊你有什麼算法好啦你現在講出來回去再講我的意思啦你運氣夠強大不是沒有增加我們沒有額外採購喔現在每一年就買25億美金假設到你所講這4樣的東西25億4年100億你最多的100億的功用在哪裡"},{"start":487.782,"end":512.605,"text":"你那個一百億已經追加了如果只有你有一百億沒什麼人開心他逼著你美國不會那麼老實的人啊我跟您講喔我們任德的商品有人買大家都很開心後來 還有鳳梨鳳梨 各自大離家我們現在你看喔 台灣政府都不要跟我造假喔 美國要進口我們鳳梨 我給你舉例"},{"start":514.854,"end":536.535,"text":"109年中國大陸進口我們大概4800萬美金現在你外銷日本大概2200多萬美金一年那以前我在綠海岸的時候你們說把鳳梨外銷到澳洲市場很大每一年才九噸八噸"},{"start":537.967,"end":545.121,"text":"啊你再回想一下如果我們的台灣貨你銷到美國去的時候怎麼銷"},{"start":547.106,"end":575.778,"text":"你說要開放不要講的聲音那麼大就像澳洲一樣每一年才外銷奉尼巴頓而已阿根委員報告所有的市場開放它是一個逐步增加的一個過程不是瞬間就增加第二個部分美國的部分它不用去牙關我跟你說我不知道你現在幾點要出來還是要切片出來後面的重點在哪裡"},{"start":577.376,"end":588.891,"text":"你整天出來 美國人很懶惰 人工貨業用非常高所以我今天一定要送 那些啊農業的對人關稅沒有什麼好怕的我現在叫你說 廣積糧"},{"start":592.699,"end":609.393,"text":"值高強這台電力有什麼地方產品就加持成功 農產品所以你要把能量物流收好做大做廣做到每一個地方都有那是存糧食最有效最能保值的地方"},{"start":610.612,"end":637.992,"text":"你現在兩岸物流不去加強你說要依靠什麼都給 你最先要保證我們兩岸物流的計畫在第二期也有經費你一定要這麼做不然這個時候世界情勢非常緊張我們把自己兩岸物流顧好萬一有事情我們可以把東西保存起來這是我前兩年再來"},{"start":639.633,"end":668.172,"text":"這樣說要仔細站起來 我實在很短業務報告那麼多 只有7分鐘可以講話要是我當召委 我一定12分鐘好好問一下 要了解 再一下我拜託 農後漁港還有苗栗的兩面霧流還有我後龍的那個 那個叫什麼雜糧專輯 三四樣給我拜託 你有答應我了所以要全力的輔導苗栗縣對不對"},{"start":669.691,"end":693.393,"text":"我又有說過這樣的話 說會來協助苗栗協助沒有 你說會全力幫忙跟協助 現在嬌娜這個後續喔 因為你現在真的說我是外公啊 我是看到你兩面物流啊我們會協助啊 會全力協助啊兩面物流就兩面物流 你怎麼又有增加了一夜兩面物流 哈里布跟武昌暢宇"},{"start":695.12,"end":705.051,"text":"你這邊有沒有報告什麼增加1億的能量物流物流 能量物流就是一個系統好 謝謝陳昌明委員謝謝我們會盡量來協助啊你越來越客氣啊"},{"start":710.711,"end":725.198,"text":"不是 因為現在很多財務法的關係不是財務法 這個是我以前講好的既定政策我當初的承諾的時候那時候財務法沒有這兩年的立法會變成一筆勾勾我就覺得我們沒有在做事情啊主席 站起來讓你稍講話安全一點謝謝 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":775,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時30分）主席，首先有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：陳部長，這次你的業務報告主軸就是支持產業、安定就業、照顧弱勢、加強韌性。我相信你在報告裡面當然提到很多，但是最重要的就是美國對等關稅對臺灣農業的影響。我看到你在報告裡這樣寫：美國是我國最重要的農產品貿易夥伴，臺灣在113年一年從美國進口了36.9億元，占了我國農業產品的22.3%，而臺灣是美國第八大農產品海外市場，主要進口黃豆、玉米、小麥、牛肉，對吧？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員超明：再來，你在報告另外一處這樣寫：臺灣一年大概外銷美國8.9億美元，占我國出口農產品的17.6%，其中我國外銷美國最多的幾項產品有蝴蝶蘭、茶葉、毛豆、吳郭魚、鬼頭刀魚還有鱸魚。你在報告裡還提到蝴蝶蘭，其他國家跟我國沒得競爭，只有荷蘭，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：主要的競爭對手國是荷蘭。"],["陳委員超明：是荷蘭。","至於茶葉，我國做高精緻茶葉沒有影響，做混合茶才有影響，混合茶是從越南進口臺灣再調配的，這是一點。關於毛豆，我們的競爭對手是中國大陸，但中國大陸現在稅率如果是57%、100%的話，也不是我們的競爭對手。吳郭魚銷到美國時，只要越南、中國大陸這幾個國家關稅都比我國還要高，也都不是我們的對手。鬼頭刀魚我就比較不了解，是在中南美洲……"],["陳部長駿季：祕魯。"],["陳委員超明：喔！那個地方產的和我們這邊銷出去的當然品質有差別啊！這種我比較不內行，所以不敢講。鱸魚也是中南美洲產、臺灣飼養的。"],["陳部長駿季：土耳其。"],["陳委員超明：喔！土耳其啊！那我告訴你，土耳其現在關稅也非常高。"],["陳部長駿季：60%。"],["陳委員超明：所以你不用緊張，美國的對等關稅其實對我國農業影響不大。但是我常常想一個問題，你說要帶團到美國，4年要採買100億美元的美國農產品對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：讓我說明一下。"],["陳委員超明：你不用講，等我問完你再講，我要把疑問點講出來啊！你的自我表白我怎麼能相信？","這裡面仍然有黃豆、玉米、小麥、牛肉，我為什麼談？這4年100億美元我要說清楚，不然你等一下會……我們現在大概就進口這4種產品，大約36.9億美元、37億美元，你現在又說4年要採購100億美元，所以我再幫你加一年25億美元，加起來就七、八十億美元了，你要叫臺灣吞？所以我覺得莫名其妙！你說不是政府出錢，是那些廠商出錢的，但廠商沒那麼傻啊！比較便宜才會買啦！臺灣的需要量、容納量有沒有那麼大？我被你講得迷迷糊糊，我以為你到時候對你有的資訊都會講實在話。"],["陳部長駿季：委員，我可不可以做一點說明？"],["陳委員超明：你要記得喔！現在37億美元是這四種產品大量進口喔！你現在又規劃4年100億美元，等於每年再多買25億美元，從美國進口的比現在的37億美元大概增加70%，而且是每一年喔！你的算數不要亂湊啦！不然，多這100億美元、也就是一年多25億美元要買什麼？你告訴我。"],["陳部長駿季：讓我很清楚地講。這樣的採購是每兩年一次的例行採購，這種例行採購是業者自己出資的。你聽我講完好嗎？不然我每次都講不清楚。"],["陳委員超明：好。"],["陳部長駿季：然後，我們簽的是購買意願書，不是購買合約，因為商人還是會看最後價格。所以這次聯合採購是業者根據其需求去採購的，這是第一點。"],["陳委員超明：是先表達意願，不一定要買？要講清楚喔！"],["陳部長駿季：對，一般都是最後決定。現在因為美國的品質比較好、價格也比較低，所以聯合採購可以相對降低採購成本。第二，這些產品最主要是飼料用。"],["陳委員超明：不，我向你提一個問題嘛！37億美元是103年的進口值嘛！而你兩年採購一次，美國人也會算。在這4年當中，我假設一年增加採購25億美元……"],["陳部長駿季：不是增加，就是年度採購。"],["陳委員超明：36億美元乘以4，就快要150億美元了，你講100億美元怎麼講得通嘛？那就變成你向美國買得少了啊！一定是要增加的嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在平均一年是25億美元、4年合計100億美元，而過去5年這些項目加起來也是22億美元到25美元之間。"],["陳委員超明：那就是沒增加啊！他們怎麼會捧你捧成這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：因為我們的年度採購是每兩年一次。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講，不是採購啊！依照這樣的算法沒有增加，那你去的功效就沒有多大，主要就是為了對等關稅能不能降到跟日本、韓國一樣。我跟你講，大家不要講假話，要是算起來沒有增加，美國有什麼好高興、還說你很偉大、把你巴結得很好？一定是因為你4年增加了100億美元採購嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：這次農訪團去有兩個目的：一個目的就是聯合採購，另一方面就是我們希望建立長久穩定的友好關係。採購比113年度多，是因為會根據當年度價格浮動，所以還是買我們需要的。"],["陳委員超明：我現在不是在說價格浮動，而是在說4年之內，每年要多買25億美元。"],["陳部長駿季：不是增加，是原來的25億美元。"],["陳委員超明：我們本來就向美國買25億美元了，你是用什麼算法？好啦，你現在講這樣，但回去要再想想我的意思啦！你們是又增加採購，不是沒有增加。"],["陳部長駿季：我們沒有額外採購喔！"],["陳委員超明：現在每一年就買25億美元。假設照你所講的，這四樣東西一年25億美元，那4年100億美元的功用在哪裡？那100億美元就是追加的！"],["陳部長駿季：這是業者的需求。"],["陳委員超明：如果你只採購100億美元，那沒什麼好高興，他會逼著你，畢竟美國不是那麼老實的人啦！猶太人算得很精，你不要被拐了啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟你講，任何商品只要有人買，大家都很開心。"],["陳委員超明：好啦！","還有鳳梨，鳳梨哥斯大黎加也有。你看喔！臺灣政府現在都不要造假說美國要進口我國鳳梨。我舉個例子給你聽，109年，中國大陸進口我們大概4,800萬美元，現在外銷日本，一年大概兩千兩百多萬美元。以前我在立法院的時候，你們說把鳳梨外銷到澳洲，還宣稱市場很大，結果每一年才九噸、八噸。你再試想一下，如果臺灣鳳梨銷到美國去，要怎麼銷？若要開放，其實聲音不用那麼大，就像以前賣給澳洲一樣，每一年外銷鳳梨才8噸而已啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員報告，所有市場開放都是逐步增加的過程，而不是瞬間就增加。"],["陳委員超明：我曉得啦！"],["陳部長駿季：第二個部分，美國的部分是不用去冠芽。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你說，我不知道你現在是整顆出去還是切片出去，我後面的重點在哪裡？若是整顆出去，美國人很懶惰，人工費用非常高，所以我們一定要省，那些農業的對等關稅沒有什麼好怕的。我現在是叫你「廣積糧、築高牆」，這裡面你有寫到農產品的加值增供，所以你要把冷鏈物流做好，做大、做廣、做到每一個地方都有，那是存糧食最有效最能保值的地方。你現在對冷鏈物流不去加強，你說要依靠什麼都假的！"],["陳部長駿季：我們冷鏈物流的計畫在第二期也有經費。"],["主席：陳委員，時間到了。"],["陳委員超明：好。你一定要這麼做，不然當下世界的情勢非常緊張，我們把自己的冷鏈物流顧好，萬一有事情，我們可以把東西保存起來。","主席已經站起來，時間實在很短，業務報告那麼多，委員只有7分鐘時間可以講話。"],["主席：你已經多講了。"],["陳委員超明：要是我當召委，我一定給委員講12分鐘好好問一下要了解。","我再講一下，拜託部長，包括龍鳳漁港、苗栗的冷鏈物流，還有我後龍的雜糧專區等等，有三、四項給我拜託，你答應我要全力的輔導苗栗縣，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：我有說過這樣的話，我有說過會協助苗栗。"],["陳委員超明：沒有，你說全力幫忙跟協助，現在縮回去了？"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。"],["陳部長駿季：這個後續……"],["陳委員超明：你們現在很複雜，我是不想講那麼多，我是看你們的冷鏈物流，其實冷鏈物流就冷鏈物流，怎麼又增加了漁業冷鏈物流？被你們搞得亂七八糟了！你書面報告說什麼增加漁業的冷鏈物流，冷鏈物流就是一個系統嘛！"],["主席：好，謝謝陳超明委員。"],["陳委員超明：你會來給我們幫忙嗎？"],["主席：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會儘量來協助啊！"],["陳委員超明：你越來越客氣了。"],["陳部長駿季：不是，現在很多因為財劃法的關係，我們很多……"],["陳委員超明：財劃法是我以前講好的既定政策啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我當初承諾的時候，那時候財劃法沒有喔！"],["陳委員超明：我們立法委員被你這樣一搞的話，我覺得我沒有在做事情啊！"],["主席：謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：你看主席站起來了，讓你少講話，安全一點。"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝陳超明委員質詢，謝謝部長。","繼續請鄭委員正鈐質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-3","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","賴惠員","郭昱晴","王育敏","黃國昌","郭國文","張雅琳","鍾佳濱","徐富癸","林俊憲"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}