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會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請我們那個農業部陳部長請陳部長 謝謝部長好 老農津貼加上農退儲金保障獎對不對"},{"start":31.445,"end":44.316,"text":"好來我們看一下現在老農津貼跟農退儲金農民退休有雙層保障113年我們就農業人口差不多快50萬對不對48.9萬現在我最新的統計是48.7萬沒關係我覺得大概是那個數字這65歲以上的人可以領老農津貼部分有參加農民退休儲金還可以多領一點農民退休儲金對不對"},{"start":54.534,"end":71.332,"text":"現在老農今天大概有快45萬人在勤領沒有錯吧好那我們等一下看來老農今天跟農民退休儲金有什麼差別第一老農今天一年我們大概預算要編450億對不對差不多我們農民退休儲金要相對提撥要編31億對不對"},{"start":74.001,"end":99.308,"text":"那目前的退休處境的規模大概245億在我們說的退休當中 準備當中是同性戀的啦因為剛開辦嘛 是不是跟勞退比起來 我們很小嘛 公退很小嘛那覆蓋率的話呢 目前有22萬3千人符合提領資格覆蓋率差不多有一半但是到另外一半的人他們有參加農退處境那以勤領人數呢 目前農退老農今天有將近四十萬人在領"},{"start":100.208,"end":118.289,"text":"那目前已經65歲以上在領農民退休儲金的差不多一萬四 其他人還在交啦可是領多少呢 農民老農今天是八千一嘛那農民退休儲金的看你存多少 你存的少的就領八百五嘛存的多就領一萬一千七嘛 對不對"},{"start":119.52,"end":135.787,"text":"所以每年我們大概領到農農津貼的人有領到437億那又領到退休儲金的人有1億多啦好 這個規模幫你整理一下好 往下看來 什麼樣的人會去參加農退儲金?老人還是年輕人?年輕人比較有優勢啊"},{"start":136.372,"end":164.619,"text":"對 但是大多數是老人家去參加啦因為我們開辦的晚嘛開辦的晚對 所以要退休的人他有急迫感他趕快存 對不對啊 比較年輕的人還在那邊慢慢地看 是不是這樣對好 那我們要鼓勵年輕人及早開始就去參加自體對不對對要鼓勵對不對對你越年輕越多你吃老的時期你年紀越多 是不是這樣是所以說當年在這個農退處已經開辦的時候那時候蔡總統是不是只是行政院要支持我們農業部開辦"},{"start":166.745,"end":189.628,"text":"對對不對 農業部跟我們這條集沒有 也是行政議員 我們走多邊的嘛 是不是這樣是好 那我們來看 來 請問當時行政院是不是支持我們31億 現在繼續支持是 是嗎 阿純 提撥的人越來越多 需要的錢越來越多你認為行政院會不會繼續支持應該會 應該會嘛如果農民自提越多 政府支持越多 農業部會不會沒辦法"},{"start":191.653,"end":214.794,"text":"保證 這個是百分之一五指數嘛所以我們來看一下齁 這個農退處境有這個好處 來你對勞退有了解嗎 勞工退休金勞退呢 它包括雇主強制提撥跟勞工自提的 對不對雇主至少要提6% 現在都會提6% 沒有問題你知不知道 勞工自願提的是0到6 有多少提 你知不知道"},{"start":216.414,"end":240.018,"text":"你那個勞動部的事 十幾%而已大概十六十七而已啦比起我們的農退有將近一半 數很多耶你覺得是什麼原因沒有政府相對補助嘛 農退有政府相對補助嘛勞退自體沒有政府相對補助嘛 是不是這樣所以如果說勞動部說好啦 勞工政府也支持別說相對啦 有給政府鼓勵"},{"start":245.672,"end":263.565,"text":"雖然不是你的農業部 你在行政會給他斬針 給他支持嗎我不敢說沒有啦 不敢說 人家等你 支持你你現在把人要好 你才不敢說斬針我問你敢斬針喔沒有 這個牽扯到後面需要多少經費那些東西啊等一下 沒錯 當年行政院支持我們農退有說其他話嗎"},{"start":265.326,"end":288.992,"text":"農業部我們了解 所以我們敢爭取 勞工的部分沒有啦 你自己好 人家現在兩勞動部也要請出你會說你怕不怕如果勞動部提出的方案我們會你會不會給他佔下最後呢 所以說到目前只有16%的人字體往下看如果說支持勞退字體的提撥比例你會支持嗎勞動部我們提你會給他佔下嗎"},{"start":290.432,"end":308.265,"text":"拜託委員沒有啦 我是問你的邱靖的同意嘛你做一個朋友邱靖我會支持勞動部的提案好 這樣才好 來 勞動部現在要提了勞動部現在安生要提什麼只要說勞工自體願意自體增加超過1%政府就送1%你聽到這個會怕不怕"},{"start":310.947,"end":327.115,"text":"會不會把他打破了我還沒有問那個勞動部的想法不是啦 如果他勞動部這樣提你會不會拍 給他鼓掌部長如果這樣講 洪部長這樣講你會不會把他打破了說有夠勇敢的 我在聽聽他在聽你會不會"},{"start":329.605,"end":344.151,"text":"我支持他們的提案你會支持他的提案好最後呢所以部長你會支持如果勞動部提說政府也加送一趴勞退自體送一趴你在旁邊聽了會說部長讚 黃部長我給你支持"},{"start":345.532,"end":373.41,"text":"最後 來因為我們以農民退休處境為借鏡我們為了鼓勵勞工退休自體如果說政府提出來 勞務提出來自體的話 政府送一趴提高自體的意願你給他暫省 醫療你要再增加他也會支持你啦 是不是這樣拜託 我們現在經濟要往回了我們討論的是農業的部分因為勞工的部分我不夠熟 但是我會支持我是在替你騙人錢啦你現在給他暫省 醫療你要增加人家才會替你說話啦 沒有沒有"},{"start":375.331,"end":379.093,"text":"我會支持勞動 勞動部提的這些 好 謝謝好 謝謝 感謝 謝謝我們宗家兵委員質詢 謝謝部長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1304,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時51分）主席、在場委員先進、列席相關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生，有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。老農津貼加上農退儲金保障強對不對？來我們看一下，現在老農津貼跟農退儲金，農民退休有雙層保障，113年我們農業人口差不多快50萬，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：最新的統計是48.7萬人。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒關係，就大概是那個數字，65歲以上的人可以領老農津貼，部分有參加農民退休儲金者，還可以多領一點農民退休儲金。現在老農津貼大概有快45萬人在請領對吧？我們來看一下老農津貼跟農民退休儲金有什麼差別。第一、老農津貼一年預算大概要編450億，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：差不多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：農民退休儲金要相對提撥，要編31億對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：差不多是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：目前退休儲金的規模大概245億，在我們所有的退休準備當中是最小的啦！因為剛開辦嘛是不是？跟勞退比較我們很小嘛！跟公退比很小嘛！那覆蓋率的話，目前有22萬3,000人符合提領資格，覆蓋率差不多有一半。但是有另外一半的人，他沒有參加農退儲金。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：以請領人數來看，目前老農津貼有將近40萬人在領，已經65歲以上在領農民退休儲金的差不多有1萬4,000人，其他人還在交啦！可是領多少呢？老農津貼是8,100，農民退休儲金呢？看你存多少，存的少的就領850，存的多的就領1,700。所以我們每年領老農津貼的人有領到437億，領到退休儲金的有一億多，這個規模幫你整理一下。再往下看，什麼樣的人會去參加農退儲金？是比較老的還是比較年輕的？"],["陳部長駿季：對年輕的比較有利。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，但大多數是老年人去參加，因為我們開辦得晚嘛！開辦得晚，所以要退休的人他有急迫感，他趕快存，比較年輕的還在慢慢的看，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們要鼓勵年輕人，及早開始就去參加自提對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要鼓勵對不對？年輕人越早存，老的時候就領越多，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以當年農退儲金開辦的時候，當時蔡總統是不是指示行政院要支持農業部開辦？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：農業部有這筆錢嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有嘛！是行政院領的，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，請問當時行政院是不是支持我們31億，現在繼續支持？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那提撥的人越來越多，需要的錢越來越多，你認為行政院會不會繼續支持？"],["陳部長駿季：應該會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：應該會嘛！如果農民自提越多，政府支持越多，農業部可以掛保證嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：保證，這個是義務支出。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我們來看一下，農退儲金有這個好處，你對勞退有了解嗎？勞工退休金，勞退包括雇主強制提撥跟勞工自提的，對不對？雇主至少要提6%，現在都會提6%沒有問題，你知不知道勞工自願提的是0%到6%，有多少你知不知道？勞動部的事情。"],["陳部長駿季：10幾%而已。"],["鍾委員佳濱：大概16%、17%而已，比起我們的農退有將近一半，輸很多，你覺得什麼原因？沒有政府相對補助嘛！農退有政府相對補助，勞退自提，沒有政府相對補助，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以如果勞動部說，好啦！勞工政府也會支持，不要說相對，有政府鼓勵，雖然不是你的農業部，你在行政院會贊成支持嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我不敢說。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不敢說，人家當年支持你，現在別人要好，你還不敢說贊成，我問你敢贊成嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，這個牽涉到後面需要多少經費那些東西。"],["鍾委員佳濱：等一下部長，當年行政院支持我們農退，有說其他話嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：農業部我們瞭解，所以我們敢爭取，勞工的部分……"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有啦！你自己好，人家現在勞動部也要爭取，你會給他鼓掌嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：如果勞動部提出方案，我們會給他支持。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你會給他支持？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以到目前只有16%的人自提，如果說支持勞退自提的提撥比例，你會支持嘛，勞動部如果提你會支持嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：拜託委員……"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有啦！我是問你的友情支持嘛！你做為一個朋友，要給人家支持。"],["陳部長駿季：我會支持勞動部的提案。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，這樣很好，來，勞動部現在要提了，勞動部現在打算要提什麼？只要勞工願意自提增加超過1%，政府就送1%，你聽到這個會鼓掌嗎？會不會鼓掌啦！"],["陳部長駿季：我還沒有問勞動部的想法。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不是啦！如果勞動部這樣提，你會不會給他鼓掌？洪部長如果這樣講，你會不會給他鼓掌？說有夠勇敢，兄弟我挺你！人家當年挺你農民，你沒有挺勞工？"],["陳部長駿季：我支持他們的提案啦！"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以部長你會支持他們的提案，如果勞動部提政府也加送1%，勞退自提送1%，你在旁邊聽了會說：「部長讚！洪部長我給你支持！」最後，我們以農民退休處境為借鏡，為了鼓勵勞工退休自提，如果說政府提出來、勞動部提出來，自提的話政府送1%，提高自提的意願，你給他「贊聲」，以後你要再增加，他也會支持你啦！是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是經濟委員會，討論的是農業的部分，因為勞工的部分我不夠熟，但是我會支持……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我是在替你做人情，你現在有給他「贊聲」，以後你要增加，人家會替你說話，這樣好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我會支持勞動部提的這些……"],["主席：謝謝……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝，你要給人「贊聲」，互相支持，農民才有朋友，這樣好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。"],["主席：謝謝我們鍾佳濱委員委員質詢，謝謝部長。","我們請王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員不在。","我們請徐富癸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-3","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra 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