{"error":false,"id":["164249"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":164249,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164249","日期":"2025-10-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-19-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-16T09:58:01+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-16T10:05:48+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6022c9f6d63255a3efa451e03a758ba8bc4230b8fec4a4bdde83ed45c59a17eb9b03abd11ba7a7725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"09:58:01 - 10:05:48","會議時間":"2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.57284375,"end":16.079093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.63159375,"end":18.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.184093750000002,"end":20.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.96784375,"end":26.575343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.86659375,"end":53.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.53721875,"end":57.422843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.97971875,"end":65.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.04596875,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.79596875,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.20909375000001,"end":76.05284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.81221875,"end":77.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.30971875,"end":79.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.73971875000001,"end":83.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.52409375,"end":86.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.27471875,"end":91.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.34221875,"end":87.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.65784375000001,"end":97.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.55159375000001,"end":99.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.48784375000001,"end":104.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.17909375,"end":105.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.09034375,"end":106.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.50784375,"end":110.37659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.73096875,"end":111.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.24971875000001,"end":113.75159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.73846875000001,"end":118.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.56096875,"end":119.45534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.09221875,"end":126.57659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.28534375000001,"end":131.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.22971875000002,"end":135.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.42721875,"end":139.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.26221875000002,"end":141.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.74721875,"end":142.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.57409375,"end":145.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.33721875,"end":149.54346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.65721875,"end":151.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.58096875,"end":153.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.18409375000002,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.55096875,"end":156.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.58034375,"end":158.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.09471875,"end":162.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.17846875,"end":165.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.28346875,"end":166.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.19034375,"end":168.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.81034375000002,"end":170.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.09284375000001,"end":172.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.84346875,"end":174.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.56471875,"end":178.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.20971875,"end":181.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.11221875,"end":185.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.84159375000002,"end":186.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.30971875,"end":187.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.25034375,"end":194.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.19034375,"end":197.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.41346875000002,"end":198.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.24034375000002,"end":200.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.31596875000002,"end":202.24409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.23971875,"end":204.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.78784375,"end":206.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.27284375000002,"end":209.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.27659375000002,"end":210.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.17096875000001,"end":212.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.97659375,"end":215.20409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.77784375000002,"end":218.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.42284375000003,"end":222.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.52784375000002,"end":222.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.28721875000002,"end":229.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.47596875000002,"end":233.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.52159375000002,"end":237.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.12034375000002,"end":238.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.82471875000002,"end":243.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.33034375000003,"end":244.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.05596875,"end":248.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.47721875000002,"end":253.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.64534375000002,"end":254.80971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.53534375,"end":258.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.53909375,"end":259.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.22659375,"end":261.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.18409375000005,"end":262.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.06159375000004,"end":265.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.04846875000004,"end":267.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.95534375,"end":267.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.97221875,"end":268.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.19159375000004,"end":269.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.15346875,"end":269.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.91284375000004,"end":271.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.68471875,"end":272.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.35971875,"end":278.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.90721875,"end":284.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.15096875,"end":291.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.28909375,"end":302.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.68409375000005,"end":325.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.77346875,"end":326.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.93784375,"end":325.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.30471875,"end":328.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.90784375000004,"end":331.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.41784375000003,"end":333.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.52721875000003,"end":335.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.68721875,"end":339.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.26471875000004,"end":342.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.74534375,"end":343.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.69034375,"end":345.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.39034375,"end":347.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.55034375,"end":349.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.88346875,"end":353.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.18659375000004,"end":355.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.86971875,"end":357.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.16909375,"end":361.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.76346875,"end":363.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.51409375000003,"end":365.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.72471875,"end":369.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.09971875,"end":371.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.74909375000004,"end":373.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.17096875000004,"end":375.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.66846875000005,"end":378.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.43159375000005,"end":382.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.82346875,"end":384.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.78096875,"end":388.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.03784375000004,"end":388.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.94909375000003,"end":388.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.96596875,"end":395.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.18034375,"end":395.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.46284375000005,"end":396.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.96471875000003,"end":398.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.88846875,"end":398.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.90534375000004,"end":399.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.89659375,"end":402.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.66846875000005,"end":403.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.32221875000005,"end":405.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.29659375,"end":407.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.08096875,"end":411.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.35471875,"end":413.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.02534375000005,"end":415.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.03346875000005,"end":421.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.50096875,"end":422.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.89721875000004,"end":424.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.63971875000004,"end":426.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.33971875000003,"end":429.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.95534375000005,"end":431.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.22096875000005,"end":432.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.44846875,"end":438.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.15221875000003,"end":439.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.78909375,"end":443.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.21471875000003,"end":445.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.71659375,"end":463.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.95034375,"end":465.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.37159375000005,"end":467.97471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":19.25,"end":26.097,"text":"我們請主委委員長"},{"start":53.178,"end":77.312,"text":"抱歉好另外就是也針對這個近期檢討修正公平教育委員會對於公平教育法第21條案件案件之處理原則還有公平教育委員會辦理公平教育法第21條案件程序作業要點這個修正事實上事實上這個"},{"start":81.769,"end":109.591,"text":"在去年審查預算的時候113年度的預算的時候這個立法院有這個決議所以你們的辦理情形也提到是112年修正是112年修正也就是說我剛才講的這個你的報告裡面提的就是112年的按照你的這個辦理情形裡面就是112年好"},{"start":112.318,"end":133.147,"text":"我们现在就是要检讨刚讲112年的修正我们看近5年诈欺案件数及财损逐年增加去年这个是2025年的一个资料去年就是指113年2024年"},{"start":137.529,"end":146.552,"text":"去年三大詐騙手法假投資43015件總共金額372.2億元假網路拍賣30100件金額26.2億元解除分期付款9134件金額10.3億元所以這個"},{"start":168.226,"end":191.516,"text":"所以我在去年就一再質詢網路詐騙特別多尤其是就你的業務來講就是假投資假網路拍賣這些都是都跟公平教育法都有關係所以看起來你這個112年修正的這個原則兩個原則顯然是"},{"start":199.283,"end":217.317,"text":"沒有辦法達到效果所以這樣的一個情形之下這種網路詐騙的一個普遍對台灣的人民假網拍真詐騙像這樣的一個情形這麼嚴重"},{"start":219.465,"end":248.488,"text":"所以公平教育法第25条事业意不得违其他主义影响教育自息之期望或显示公平之行为所以本习一再的是说希望能够修原则看起来无效修法除了修法之外是不是还有其他因应的作为这个是一定要去解决修法有时候"},{"start":249.522,"end":268.89,"text":"土法不足以自行,这也是基本的所以这个部分到底应该要怎么去因应真的是要好好的去公平教育委员会一定要认真的去检讨到底是怎么样"},{"start":270.323,"end":291.437,"text":"跟委員報告打詐這件事情目前是國家的重中之重那我們在行政院我們也有跨部會的分工所以像剛剛委員提到幾個詐騙性的不實廣告如果他基本上就是如果純粹是要詐欺的話那是一個犯罪的行為所以我們不會在不實廣告底下去處理他原則上是由法務部依照刑事案件來處理"},{"start":292.418,"end":309.314,"text":"那當然有些個網路上的廣告的確是有不實的陳述那這部分我們都有處理在網路上的交易如果不實廣告我們也處分過很多的案子那剛剛委員談到第25條欺網或顯示公平那個條文其實我們內部有一個處理原則"},{"start":309.915,"end":335.27,"text":"那在處理原則裡面我們有針對各種違法的類型我們有強列出來不過那個25條的適用是有一定的要件就是說它比較屬於一種補充法規的性質就是說其他像公平法其他條文已經有規定了或是其他特別法規定主委我都了解行政院所謂的打詐無法現在很多的責任不管來個部會"},{"start":337.315,"end":365.374,"text":"针对打诈无法全部把这个责任弄在这个刑事刑事的话就是警察然后警察所以这个部分是一个我们必须要去深刻去检讨的部分能不能再防范于未然所以防范于未然而不是他已经发生了然后警察要去处理那来不及了"},{"start":366.992,"end":376.98,"text":"所以這個部分是我們要去作為一個行政院各部會各部會就你的業務來講就公平交易委員會的業務來講"},{"start":379.465,"end":407.587,"text":"怎麼樣去做防範於未然而不是說已經發生了到了警察手上已經是發生了基本上是這樣各位報告我們其實跟調查局警察局我們都有做一些宣導的活動積極的在提醒現在就是說怎麼樣讓民眾真正能夠感受到而且能夠知道而且能夠不再被騙"},{"start":409.11,"end":437.978,"text":"这个就是我们要你努力的地方了不然的话刚刚讲的那些数据如果已经到刑事案件很多机关都是这样我问数位发展部问其他的都是刑事案件那个已经发生了那这个刚才讲的这个数据永远不会减少因为已经发生了对不对这个数据就无法减少所以我们要怎么样让这个数据"},{"start":441.076,"end":467.795,"text":"所以這個部分我們要共同的去面對這個問題是 那個跟委員再報告一下就是對於事先防範這一塊只要網路上的廣告是屬於不實廣告基本上我們有一個網路的監控小組事實上我們都經常會在看有沒有一些不實的一個廣告出現那是目前我們在做的一個比較屬於預防性的會 預防性很重要是 好不好謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":205,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（9時58分）主席、各位委員。有請主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：委員早。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委好。今天公平會的報告有特別提到，公平交易法對於不實廣告之規範，在禁止事業以虛偽不實或引人錯誤之交易資訊，不當爭取交易機會，以保護效能競爭，進而保障消費者權益。另外，近期也檢討修正「公平交易委員會對於公平交易法第二十一條案件之處理原則」及「公平交易委員會辦理公平交易法第二十一條案件程序作業要點」。事實上在去年審查113年度預算的時候，立法院有決議，所以你們的辦理情形也提到，是112年修正，也就是說，我剛才講的這個，你的報告裡面提的就是112年的，按照你的辦理情形裡面，就是112年。我們現在就是要檢討，剛剛講112年的修正。","我們看近5年詐欺案件數及財損逐年增加，這個是2025年的資料，去年（113年、2024年）的三大詐騙手法：假投資共4萬3,015件，總金額372.2億元；假網路拍賣共3萬100件，金額26.2億元；解除分期付款共9,134件，金額10.3億元。所以我在去年就一再質詢網路詐騙特別多，尤其就你的業務來講，就是假投資、假網路拍賣，這些都跟公平交易法有關係，所以看起來你112年修正的這兩個原則，顯然是沒有辦法達到效果。在這樣的情形之下，網路詐騙的普遍對臺灣的人民……假網拍，真詐騙，像這樣的情形這麼嚴重，公平交易法第二十五條有規定，事業亦不得為其他足以影響交易秩序之欺罔或顯失公平之行為。所以本席一再提到希望能夠修法，原則看起來無效，除了修法之外，是不是還有其他的因應作為？這個是一定要去解決的，有時候徒法不足以自行，這也是基本的，所以這個部分到底要怎麼去因應？公平交易委員會一定要認真的去檢討到底是怎麼樣。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告，打詐這件事情目前是國家的重中之重，在行政院我們也有跨部會的分工，所以像剛剛委員提到幾個詐騙性的不實廣告，基本上如果純粹是要詐欺的話，那是一個犯罪行為，所以我們不會在不實廣告底下去處理它，原則上是由法務部依照刑事案件來處理，當然有些網路上的廣告的確有不實陳述，這部分我們都有處理，在網路上的交易，如果有不實廣告，我們也處分過很多案子。剛剛委員談到第二十五條的欺妄或顯失公平，那個條文其實我們內部有一個處理原則，在處理原則裡面，我們有針對各種違法的類型詳列出來，不過第二十五條的適用也有一定的要件，它比較屬於一種補充法規的性質，就是像公平法，其他條文已經有規定了，或者是其他特別法規定。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委，我都了解行政院所謂的打詐五法，現在很多的責任，不管哪個部會，針對打詐五法，全部都把責任弄在刑事，刑事就是警察，所以這個是我們必須要深刻去檢討的部分，能不能防範於未然，而不是已經發生了要警察去處理，那就來不及了，這部分是行政院各部會，就你的業務來講，就公平交易委員會的業務來講，怎麼樣防範於未然，而不是已經發生了，到警察手上都已經發生了，基本上是這樣。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告，我們其實跟調查局、警察局都有做一些宣導的活動，積極的在提醒民眾。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我知道都有宣導，現在就是怎麼樣讓民眾能夠真正的感受到，而且能夠知道、能夠不再被騙，這就是我們要你努力的地方，不然剛剛講的那些數據如果已經到刑事案件，很多機關都是這樣，我問數位發展部、問其他的都說是刑事案件，都已經發生了，那剛才講的數據永遠不會減少啊！因為已經發生了，對不對？這個數據就無法減少，所以我們要怎麼樣讓這個數據減少？關於這個部分，我們要共同去面對這個問題。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。跟委員再報告一下，對於事先防範這一塊，只要網路上的廣告屬於不實廣告，基本上我們有一個網路監控小組，事實上我們都經常在看有沒有一些不實的廣告出現，那是目前我們在做比較屬於預防性的工作。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，預防性很重要，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢，謝謝主委。","我們現在請楊瓊瓔委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-4","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","陳超明","鄭正鈐","黃國昌","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","蔡易餘"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}