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第三台灣高鐵源自於日本新幹線那我們的車廂跟車體的打造一體成型所以你也看得到就是說日本新幹線是沒有親子車廂的所以我們推動寧靜車廂我們是希望跟親子友善並存在現實的運量的狀況底下我們"},{"start":226.952,"end":235.019,"text":"沒有條件來打造這個如同台鐵的勤職車廂這件要跟大家說個說明我想我們有沒有一個折衷的方式"},{"start":236.331,"end":261.59,"text":"就是說今天假設我還是你像台鐵台鐵他現在每週日兩班現在都現在每天平均有20到25班次真的很多那當然我也知道高鐵的困難高鐵不能再加掛車廂那車廂裡面也沒有辦法變動那這個困難的情況之下如果有考慮到比如說像我們有一些高鐵會有彩繪啊"},{"start":263.712,"end":279.649,"text":"車廂外對 那個其實看起來就滿舒服的嘛這個也是一個創意嘛那如果說我列一個車廂在車廂裡面我可以彩繪一下或者是變化一下位置不變但是這一個"},{"start":280.956,"end":302.144,"text":"就是讓家長覺得說我今天小朋友待在這裡如果我有帶小朋友我優先選擇在這裡那當然就是說這個車廂也許會比較吵啦那就是說小朋友大家盡量集中在這個車廂裡面會比較吵但是就是說我們用一些才會用一些孩子喜歡的來吸引孩子去"},{"start":303.999,"end":311.785,"text":"跟委員報告我想我們會來繼續研發也接受社會各界的提案是不是能夠有更多的方式跟工具"},{"start":334.699,"end":353.984,"text":"問題 所以這個部分容我們這個可能更謹慎的來研議 好不好您思考一下啦 因為是覺得這個至少家長在那邊會比較沒有壓力啦那當然就是說有其他的團體考量就是說你會不會有歧視 那當然我們絕對不是歧視啦而是讓小朋友有一個比較"},{"start":354.98,"end":377.048,"text":"他到這邊就是說我們當然盡量約束啦或者盡量讓小朋友學會替他人著想這個是我們必要的教育觀嘛但是有時候沒有辦法的時候至少家長在那裡壓力會比較小那有沒有這個可能我們希望高鐵再研究一下那這個我想很多人重視希望能夠盡快有答案好謝謝謝謝謝謝我們請那個運安會來運安會主委"},{"start":388.49,"end":410.536,"text":"主委好 主委其實我對運安會我記得我提過很多的問題運安會的主委也都跟我說會研究會考慮但是最後好像沒有什麼多大的差別我不知道是主委是忘了還是對我們的質詢沒有那麼在意"},{"start":412.922,"end":438.416,"text":"你可以看到像我們針對這個公共運輸像本席在114年5月29日提出的這個三峽車禍的事情那主委也答應說要縮短調查時間提供換照建議那現在你們給我們的回覆是這樣調查報告會提前半年預計明年5月出爐那我看你們原來的規劃"},{"start":440.08,"end":463.445,"text":"原來的規劃報告時程初步報告事實資料報告最終報告最終調查報告預計在2026年5月發布那你哪有提前你就照你原來的計畫你說要縮短沒有縮短然後我們去問我再跟主委報告"},{"start":464.383,"end":473.233,"text":"我們去問說去問你們說你上一次說會把資訊提供給委員參考結果現在問你們裡面你們裡面給我們答覆是說這個請詢問交通部"},{"start":477.48,"end":500.95,"text":"你是指高齡教師這個部門嗎後來我們有跟交通部我們知道最新的資訊是這樣子交通部他在今年的10月1號有發布新的規定說115年的5月會開始實施70歲以上的民眾要換照然後要通過體育檢查等等這個我其實也知道"},{"start":502.17,"end":528.355,"text":"我的意思是說其實你在諮詢台上所答應的事情所要考量的事情你們應該就是說你取得講出來就說要做 你就是做嘛你其實你把資訊提供給我們委員會給我們委員有什麼困難嗎你即使是交通部已經有這樣子預定 擬定 雖然還沒有實施那我們問你們 你們就一句話說你們詢問交通部"},{"start":532.61,"end":557.457,"text":"這個不是一個負責任的態度那再來就是說我在最後一點就之前其實我有跟主委講過類似河安會事實上現在在華山在恆春辦很多這個宣導的活動辦得有聲有色我記得我也跟主委講過主委也說要考慮來辦結果到現在講很久了都沒有結果"},{"start":560.064,"end":571.158,"text":"還是說主委在這邊回答了以後回去就忘了還是我們的幕僚就主委的回答應該有後續追蹤讓委員知道一下我想這是一個基本的態度"},{"start":572.438,"end":591.992,"text":"是不是主委這個部分可以要求一下我們的相關的單位你底下的人以及你自己對於委員在質詢上所質詢的是不是應該要有個回答的機制讓我們能夠清楚就是說你在這邊質詢的結果如何"},{"start":593.343,"end":618.575,"text":"我們去年有呼應委員的這個要求在高雄有辦一個醫師安全資訊教育研討會有關鐵道部分去年有辦那另外我們科普我們也今年準備要辦那個鐵道事故調查論壇都有那另外那個藝術協會他會有辦研討會的時候我們也會在那個場合上做相關先導這個做的可能還不夠多啦但是我會加強"},{"start":620.438,"end":626.242,"text":"運輸協會這個是你們是搭上線的不是你們主動的是我們主動跟他講說留一個時段給我們"},{"start":629.295,"end":653.212,"text":"就是说这个办理我想你们将来可能调整一下如果有别人办的活动你们有去努力多了一个什么项目当然这个也是你们的努力这个是不是要跟大家委员都讲一下有时候我们去那边不知道你们在里面这是别人办的场不知道是你去努力之后多了这个项目"},{"start":654.301,"end":680.18,"text":"像這個你們有整理的東西我希望說能夠給委員的資料你們內部要做一下資料的整理讓大家可以清楚那我剛提到的就是說這個報告的時程啦以及這個我們台上的回覆啦需要提供給委員的資訊也希望說你們這個可以整理一下該給委員的資訊就是主動給委員這個不是很困難的事嘛對不對這個希望說可以改進啦好 謝謝 謝謝委員長好 謝謝"},{"start":683.444,"end":686.519,"text":"好 再請運安會針對剛剛委員所提出來事項"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":344,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（10時18分）主席、大家好。我們請史董事長。"],["主席：史哲董事長，請。"],["史董事長哲：委員早。"],["許委員智傑：董事長好。我想寧靜車廂這件事，現在社會也都在關注，其實我們還是肯定高鐵處理寧靜車廂這個問題。當時我跟邱志偉委員還有多位委員提出寧靜車廂的訴求，我們是針對大人跟使用3C產品，當時的確是有很多人在車上講電話很大聲，或是有很多人在車上交談很大聲，我就想說這是公共空間，怎麼講話這麼大聲，自己都不會約束一下，所以當時我們的用意其實都是出自善意。"],["史董事長哲：是，當然。"],["許委員智傑：我也相信史董事長對於高鐵寧靜車廂的訴求，事實上也是善意，所以我是覺得該肯定還是要肯定。"],["史董事長哲：是，謝謝。"],["許委員智傑：當然有一些讓家長突然覺得好像小孩子有時候在裡面的聲音無法控制，這個我們也體諒。"],["史董事長哲：是。"],["許委員智傑：所以史董事長也提到我們有一些包容。"],["史董事長哲：是。"],["許委員智傑：對小朋友有一些無法控制的，講實在話，小朋友有時候不是家長叫他不要講話，他就不要講話的，這個部分，其實我們也多一點體諒跟包容。"],["史董事長哲：我們一開始就已經說明清楚這是不包括小朋友。"],["許委員智傑：對，所以我們其實寧靜車廂的用意，就如我們一開始的本意一樣，也是希望大家互相可以呼籲一下，就是寧靜車廂是必要的，但是體諒小朋友、包容小朋友，也希望大家可以在人際面上互相學習跟包容。"],["史董事長哲：是，我們會持續推動下去。"],["許委員智傑：對，其實這個理念大家是可以接受的，當然也希望家長們不要有這麼大的壓力，大家可以體諒家長，有時候小朋友的聲音，大家可以稍微體諒一下。當然，有一些小朋友是在看3C產品，那就不行！"],["史董事長哲：是。"],["許委員智傑：就像我剛剛講的，我們是針對交談部分，有一些小朋友在車上開聲音看3C產品，當然我們就……"],["史董事長哲：我們一樣希望是用耳機。"],["許委員智傑：對，就是讓家長了解一下，大家對小朋友的體諒是有的，希望高鐵可以繼續宣導。"],["史董事長哲：謝謝委員。"],["許委員智傑：另外，圖片上面的是臺鐵親子車廂，圖片下的是瑞士鐵路的親子車廂，這個董事長應該知道吧？"],["史董事長哲：是，我知道。"],["許委員智傑：高鐵有沒有可能設親子車廂？"],["史董事長哲：這部分希望委員能夠讓我稍微簡單說明。我想親子車廂在國外的經驗，最主要是針對長程，事實上長程對孩子來講，不安的成分會更高，這是第一個。台灣高鐵目前有350公里，平均搭乘時間約1小時，平均搭乘公里數大概是一百六十幾公里，所以大概是1小時，相對來講時間是短的，這是第二個。第三，台灣高鐵源自於日本新幹線，我們的車廂跟車體打造是一體成型，委員可以看到日本新幹線也是沒有親子車廂，所以我們才推動寧靜車廂，希望跟親子友善可以並存，在現實的運量狀況下，我們沒有條件打造如同臺鐵的親子車廂，這一點要跟大家做個說明。"],["許委員智傑：那有沒有一個折衷方式？像臺鐵從前是每週日兩班，到現在是每天平均20到25班次，真的很多，當然，我也知道高鐵的困難，高鐵不能再加掛車廂……"],["史董事長哲：是。"],["許委員智傑：車廂裡面也沒有辦法變動，在這個困難的情況之下，可以考慮譬如有些高鐵會有彩繪……"],["史董事長哲：車廂外。"],["許委員智傑：對，那個其實看起來就蠻舒服的，這也是一種創意，如果你們列出一個車廂，在車廂裡彩繪，或者稍微變化一下，座位不變，但是讓有帶小朋友的家長可以優先選擇這個車廂，當然，也許這個車廂會比較吵，因為小朋友大都集中在這裡，會比較吵，但就是用一些彩繪、用一些孩子喜歡的事物來吸引孩子……"],["史董事長哲：跟委員報告，我們會繼續研發，也接受社會各界的提案，是不是能夠有更多的方式和工具來幫忙一起安撫、轉移小孩的注意力，這個部分我們都願意研究，甚至該付出的成本我們也願意。不過把車廂依不同的人做不同的安排，這件事情我們會比較謹慎，因為即使是在家長團體、民間團體也都有不同意見，因為這可能會衍生其他更多的問題，所以這個部分容我們更謹慎來研議，好不好？"],["許委員智傑：OK，就是思考一下，我是覺得至少讓家長在那邊比較沒有壓力，但是如果其他團體有其他考量，譬如會不會有歧視問題，當然我們這個絕對不是歧視，而是讓小朋友有一個比較……他到這裡，我們當然要儘量約束，或者儘量讓小朋友學會替他人著想，這個是必要的教育觀，但真的沒有辦法的時候，至少家長在那裡的壓力會比較小，有沒有這個可能，希望高鐵再研究一下。"],["史董事長哲：是，謝謝。"],["許委員智傑：這個有很多人重視，希望能夠儘快有答案。"],["史董事長哲：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["許委員智傑：謝謝。接下來請運安會。"],["主席：請運安會主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：主委好。主委，針對運安會，我記得我提過很多問題，主委也都跟我說會研究、考慮，但最後好像沒有什麼多大差別，我不知道主委是忘了，還是對我們的質詢沒有那麼在意？針對公共運輸，本席在114年5月29日提出有關三峽車禍的事情，主委答應說要縮短調查時間，提供換照建議，你們給我的回復是：調查報告會提前半年，預計明年5月出爐。我看你們原來規劃的報告時程：初步報告、事實資料報告、最終報告，最終調查報告預計在2026年5月發布，這樣哪有提前？就是照原來的計畫啊！你說要縮短時程，但沒有縮短啊！"],["林主任委員信得：我們會加派人力，因為……"],["許委員智傑：我再跟主委報告，上一次你說會把資訊提供給委員參考，結果我現在問你們，你們內部人員給我的答復是「請詢問交通部」。"],["林主任委員信得：委員是指高齡駕駛的部分嗎？"],["許委員智傑：對。"],["林主任委員信得：這個部分後來我們有跟交通部說，我知道最新的資訊是交通部在今年10月1號有發布新的規定，115年5月會開始實施70歲以上的民眾要換照，然後要通過體格檢查等等……"],["許委員智傑：其實這個我也知道啦！"],["林主任委員信得：是、是。"],["許委員智傑：我的意思是，你在質詢臺上答應的事情、要考量的事情，既然嘴巴上都已經講出來要做，就要去做，而且你們把資訊提供給委員會、給委員，有什麼困難嗎？即使交通部已經有這樣的預定、擬定，雖然還沒有實施，但是我問你們時，你們就回一句：詢問交通部。這不是一個負責任的態度。","再者，之前我也有跟主委提過，像核安會一樣，事實上，核安會現在在華山、恆春辦了很多宣導活動，辦得有聲有色，這個我記得有跟主委講過，主委也表示會考慮來辦，但講這麼久了，也都沒有結果，還是主委在這邊回答了以後，回去就忘了？我覺得就主委的回答，你的幕僚應該要有後續追蹤，讓委員知道結果，我想這是一個基本的態度，這個部分主委應該要求自己，或是你們相關單位幕僚，對委員在質詢臺上所質詢的問題，要有一個回答的機制，也讓我們清楚知道在這邊質詢的結果如何。"],["林主任委員信得：我們去年有呼應委員的要求，在高雄辦了一個運輸安全資訊交流研討會，就是有關鐵道部分，去年有辦；科普部分，我們今年準備要辦鐵道事故調查論壇，這些都有。另外運輸協會辦研討會的時候，我們也都會在這個場合上做相關宣導，但可能做的還不夠，我們會加強。"],["許委員智傑：這你們是搭運輸協會的線，並不是你們主動的嘛！"],["林主任委員信得：是我們主動請他們留一個時段給我們。"],["許委員智傑：有關活動的辦理，將來你們可能要調整一下，就是如果是別人辦的活動，而你們有努力去多了一個什麼項目，是不是應該跟大家講一下，讓我們知道。有時候我們去別人辦的場，但不知道是你們努力之後才多了某個項目，所以類似這種情形，希望你們內部要做一些整理，提供委員資料，讓大家清楚。","另外我剛剛提到有關報告的時程以及臺上的回復，需要提供給委員資訊的，也希望你們可以整理一下，該給委員的資訊就主動給委員，這不是很困難的事嘛！對不對？"],["林主任委員信得：是、是。"],["許委員智傑：這個希望可以改進，可不可以？"],["林主任委員信得：是，謝謝，謝謝委員指導。"],["許委員智傑：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，再請運安會針對剛剛委員提出來的事項，有資料提供的再請提供，謝謝。","接下來請何欣純委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-3","speakers":["洪孟楷","李昆澤","蔡其昌","陳素月","許智傑","何欣純","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","王育敏","張嘉郡","黃國昌","邱若華","邱志偉","林月琴","張雅琳","陳冠廷","林國成","游顥"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請交通\n部部長陳世凱、衛生福利部次長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長史哲列席就「高鐵公司推動\n寧靜車廂所引發正反意見，政策上路近一個月的成效及後續宣導因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}