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請這個國家運輸安全調查委員會 林主委林主委請委員好那個運輸啊那最常會最有可能發生事故是哪一種運輸的工具這一好小"},{"start":29.685,"end":55.12,"text":"我說我們是運輸安全調查委員會對不對我說我們現在你國家運輸安全調查委員會是針對公共運輸的安全嗎是那你覺得這些公共運輸這個比較容易發生事故的是哪些運輸工具一般是車輛啦"},{"start":56.857,"end":83.818,"text":"一般是車輛比較多 車輛 鐵道 航空嘛 對不對對 你在講公路的話是車輛 你針對這些運輸的事故調查有沒有一個SOP當然有 當然有 航空的部分這個是航空的安全 航空的安全這個很專業 那你們這個委員會裡面有沒有包括航空專家 我看是何副主委"},{"start":84.96,"end":88.306,"text":"何副主委何副主委是航空專家通常一個航空的事故調查想請問一下何副主委"},{"start":106.155,"end":133.921,"text":"不是 您是航空專家通常這個航空的這個事故調查它通常要花多久時間這要看事情它的這個嚴重程度那事故的樣態是哪些樣態比較多事故的樣態來說的話從人為機械天候環境那人為的比例跟機械比例是佔比多少人為的部分差不多75%大部分是人為的那跟國外比較起來呢"},{"start":134.502,"end":148.434,"text":"也差不多這就是全世界的統計所以人為跟大概是3比1嘛對不對所以如果人為能夠降低那當然這個非安事故就會減少嘛是"},{"start":149.167,"end":166.038,"text":"怎麼樣有精進作為針對這個人為的疏失的部分以人為的疏失來說的話也就是說在國際民航組織呢他有要求我們全世界的飛行員呢要做到八項他的核心要素第一個是他飛行操控自動駕駛還有他手控的操作另外就是情境的認知"},{"start":167.569,"end":193.365,"text":"溝通 然後這個SOP的這個應用然後就是Problem Solving跟Digital Making然後這個Teamwork and Leadership另外就是Workload Management那就是說怎麼樣能夠讓這個飛行員的這個專業的這個技術跟人為的這個技術能夠不斷的精進那台灣沒有加入iCare會不會有很大的影響那就是說在資訊取得的速度上它會受影響"},{"start":195.049,"end":222.5,"text":"當然希望說所有的這個運輸都零事故零事故是不可能但是能夠盡可能減少事故特別是這個不管是任何這個運輸工具的事故都是有時候非常大的一個災害不管是生命財產這邊航空的部分你說有75是人為的疏失人為的過失所以這部分這個非安會國家運輸安全調查委員會有這個責任把這個人為的比例把它降低"},{"start":223.24,"end":249.671,"text":"是的那機器的部分機器的部分要怎麼處理呢這是有方法的也就是說你從第一個他的這個所謂的行為的這個塑造他的怎麼樣從SOP的遵守到他把這個工作完成那這是最基本的一個專業人士專業的這個從業人員他說需要努力的那就是說專業精神也就你在沒有人"},{"start":251.56,"end":261.727,"text":"監督你的時候你可以遵守所有的法規遵守所有的SOB能夠把這個工作完成好謝謝何務主委謝謝林主委還有點時間請教一下交通部五次長委員好次長您好這個所謂在北車臺北車站發生這個所謂這個有應該國際旅客"},{"start":281.653,"end":304.949,"text":"被性侵害這個問題到底是我們台鐵公司因為北車是台鐵公司在營運管理對不對是那安全的部分是鐵路警察對 鐵路警察你覺得會發生這種離譜的事情是誰要負責的是鐵路警察還是交通部"},{"start":305.967,"end":321.583,"text":"台庭跟委員報告我想這些事情我們大家要共同來努力這個不應該發生這種事情這非常離譜對這個發生這事情真的是不可思議真的是讓人非常痛心而且是公開的場域對 是"},{"start":322.724,"end":345.552,"text":"這個事情發生之後我們大概就協調這個鐵路警察局他本來是大概一個小時巡邏兩次我們增加為一個小時三次那另外我們的車站的部分的我們的員工包括保全的部分我們跟鐵路警察局也建立所謂的聯防的一個機制就是半個小時我們就巡一次叫他巡視那針對比較幾個"},{"start":347.893,"end":366.746,"text":"那個熱點安全熱點部分像廁所比較角落部分我們要加強來管理我覺得這個是不應該發生而且以後也絕對不能再發生所以一定要提出精進的作為來避免那是再度再發生這個這個對國家的生育做造成很大的影響哇這國門會會這種離譜的事情發生好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":850,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（12時24分）謝謝主席。有請國家運輸安全調查委員會林主委。"],["主席：請林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：主委，最有可能發生事故是哪種運輸工具？你聽不到嗎？我說我們是運輸安全調查委員會，對不對？"],["林主任委員信得：我聽不清楚，對不起！"],["邱委員志偉：這個麥克風有啊！我說國家運輸安全調查委員會是針對公共運輸的安全嘛！"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你覺得比較容易發生事故是哪些運輸工具？"],["林主任委員信得：一般是車輛比較多啦！"],["邱委員志偉：車輛、鐵道、航空，對不對？"],["林主任委員信得：對，講公路就是車輛。"],["邱委員志偉：針對這些運輸事故的調查，有沒有一個SOP？"],["林主任委員信得：當然有、當然有。"],["邱委員志偉：特別是航空安全的部分，因為航空的安全很專業，在你們的委員會中有沒有航空專家？我看應該是何副主委，何副主委呢？何副主委，你是航空專家，請問航空事故的調查通常要花多久的時間？"],["何副主任委員慶生：這要看事情的嚴重程度。"],["邱委員志偉：哪些事故樣態比較多？"],["何副主任委員慶生：以事故樣態而言，分成人為、機械及天候環境。"],["邱委員志偉：人為的比例與機械的比例，大概占比是多少？"],["何副主任委員慶生：人為的部分差不多是75%。"],["邱委員志偉：大部分是人為的？"],["何副主任委員慶生：對。"],["邱委員志偉：與國外比較呢？"],["何副主任委員慶生：差不多，這是全世界的統計。"],["邱委員志偉：人為與機械大概是3：1，對不對？"],["何副主任委員慶生：差不多。"],["邱委員志偉：如果人為因素能夠降低，當然飛安事故就會減少。"],["何副主任委員慶生：是。"],["邱委員志偉：針對人為疏失的部分，如何能有精進作為？"],["何副主任委員慶生：以人為疏失而言，國際民航組織要求全世界的飛行員要做到它的8項核心要素：第一個是飛行操控、自動駕駛及手控的操作；另外就是情境的認知、溝通、SOP的應用；再來就是Problem Solving and Decision Making、Teamwork and Leadership，另外就是Workload Management，怎麼樣讓飛行員專業的人為技術能夠不斷的精進。"],["邱委員志偉：臺灣沒有加入ICAO會不會有很大的影響？"],["何副主任委員慶生：在資訊取得的速度上會受影響。"],["邱委員志偉：當然是希望所有的運輸都能零事故，不過零事故是不可能的，但還是希望儘可能減少事故，無論任何運輸工具的事故都可能會對生命與財產造成非常大的災害，特別是在航空的部分，你說有75%是人為的疏失、人為的過失，因此，飛安會與國家運輸安全調查委員會都有責任將人為的比例降低。"],["何副主任委員慶生：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：機械的部分要如何處理呢？"],["何副主任委員慶生：這是有方法的，第一個，所謂行為的塑造，如何從SOP的遵守到工作完成，這是一個專業人員最基本需要努力的。再來是professionalism，專業精神，在沒有人監督你的時候可以遵守所有的法規、遵守所有的SOP，能夠把這個工作完成。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝何副主委、謝謝林主委。","還有一點時間，請教一下交通部伍次長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：次長，你好。在臺北車站發生國際旅客被性侵害，因為北車是由臺鐵公司營運管理，對不對？"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["邱委員志偉：安全的部分是由鐵路警察負責？"],["伍次長勝園：對，鐵路警察局。"],["邱委員志偉：怎麼會發生這種離譜的事情？誰要負責任？是鐵路警察或交通部臺鐵？"],["伍次長勝園：報告委員，我想我們對於這些事情都要共同努力。"],["邱委員志偉：不應該發生這種事情，非常的離譜！"],["伍次長勝園：發生這件事情真的不可思議，讓人非常痛心。"],["邱委員志偉：而且是在公開場域！"],["伍次長勝園：對。這件事情發生之後，我們就協調鐵路警察局，本來一個小時巡邏2次，增加為一個小時巡邏3次。另外，車站部分，員工、保全也跟鐵路警察局建立聯防機制，半個小時就巡查一次，且交叉巡視，針對幾個安全熱點，像是廁所、比較角落的部分加強管理。"],["邱委員志偉：我們覺得這種事不應該發生，而且以後也絕對不能再發生，一定要提出精進作為，避免再度發生。這對國家聲譽造成很大的影響，國門竟然會有這種離譜的事情發生！謝謝。"],["伍次長勝園：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","再來請林月琴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-3","speakers":["洪孟楷","李昆澤","蔡其昌","陳素月","許智傑","何欣純","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","王育敏","張嘉郡","黃國昌","邱若華","邱志偉","林月琴","張雅琳","陳冠廷","林國成","游顥"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請交通\n部部長陳世凱、衛生福利部次長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長史哲列席就「高鐵公司推動\n寧靜車廂所引發正反意見，政策上路近一個月的成效及後續宣導因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}