{"error":false,"id":["164370"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":164370,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164370","日期":"2025-10-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,22],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-20T10:07:07+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-20T10:13:48+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1b55acee3e90fc06e26d84cc432149c84b83c966d97180d5d2fa2dab58134a338c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"10:07:07 - 10:13:48","會議時間":"2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.20659375,"end":14.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.610968750000001,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.42909375,"end":25.562843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.69784375,"end":27.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.22909375,"end":35.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.502218750000004,"end":41.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.931593750000005,"end":42.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.96096875,"end":43.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.63596875,"end":48.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.52971875,"end":50.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.07784375,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.01409375,"end":58.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.75596875,"end":59.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.29596875,"end":61.844093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.367218750000006,"end":63.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.025343750000005,"end":63.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.19409375,"end":63.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.10534375,"end":69.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.19721875,"end":71.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.96909375,"end":72.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.18846875,"end":72.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.13346875,"end":73.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.52159375000001,"end":78.16221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.65596875,"end":87.40971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.92846875000001,"end":91.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.10971875,"end":93.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.26971875000001,"end":95.23971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.62784375000001,"end":105.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.26471875,"end":97.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.20846875000001,"end":117.98721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.29096875,"end":122.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.63659375,"end":120.95721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.93159375,"end":127.42034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.80846875,"end":133.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.46159375000002,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.28034375000001,"end":162.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.57096875000002,"end":162.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.95909375000002,"end":164.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.42721875,"end":168.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.38409375,"end":176.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.99471875,"end":180.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.42034375,"end":185.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.41534375,"end":197.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.45159375,"end":202.26096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.61534375000002,"end":210.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.29346875000002,"end":211.45784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.50846875000002,"end":215.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.82846875,"end":217.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.51159375,"end":220.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.67159375000003,"end":232.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.41784375,"end":225.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.34596875000003,"end":225.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.91534375,"end":227.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.91096875000002,"end":228.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.64846875,"end":234.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.28096875000003,"end":236.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.13721875000002,"end":244.76909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.02284375000002,"end":241.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.27596875,"end":241.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.30971875,"end":241.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.96784375000001,"end":242.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.03534375,"end":242.20409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.20409375000003,"end":242.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","st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謝謝主席 我們請教育部次長 謝謝有請朱次長市長好上次我總質詢有問部長關於這個抖音TALK的問題最近教育部有沒有做什麼事"},{"start":28.572,"end":41.472,"text":"跟委員報告 我們目前針對小紅書跟抖音這方面的來自中國的APP依照行政院的指示 事實上我們都有一些相關的建議措施來"},{"start":43.795,"end":70.277,"text":"比如說在小紅書我們有提出不迷小紅書 青春不迷圖在抖音的部分我們有短影音專區針對裡面可能涉及的一些詐騙或是一些不實 錯假訊息我們都有整理出來放到專區未來也會再從專區去哪裡放 去抖音放還是怎樣專區我們會你看抖音的人 你要說抖音的不好你不就拿去抖音放 這樣看得到嗎"},{"start":73.597,"end":86.185,"text":"我們目前大概是第一個部分是掛在我們各學校網站你如果要掛 你如果掛說要處理這條 要做這短片你就去投影把它放 說你這投影不好那你投影這要傳回來給人家看到邏輯是不是這樣因為我剛才說的時候補充叫院長說要"},{"start":95.717,"end":103.762,"text":"請一些團體大家討論這個國中小校園禁用抖音的事情嘛這事情要加速因為家庭啊 家庭都遲遲的多教育現場的老師啊 會覺得說 哇 這可能麻煩麻煩啊 一些小朋友啊 也知道這個消息因為覺得說 哇 這樣我臨時不能看所以多方的考量所以請教育部啊"},{"start":122.984,"end":129.053,"text":"在這一題上面 大家討論就是不一定答案是什麼 我是主張要緊"},{"start":130.965,"end":154.305,"text":"我是主張要這個校園 內地啦齁 當然這個 數位部 他們有說嘛齁他們有說這個 就是 把這個抖音在校園裡頭 給它屏蔽掉啦齁阿抖音叫TikTok 一樣的東西不是給一個英語而已 再高級不是說 喔喔TikTok不是抖音TikTok就抖音啦 什麼英語而已啦那後台也是中國啦 幾乎幾乎什麼 喔TikTok就不是 都是"},{"start":159.429,"end":166.531,"text":"研究看看 這校園裡面都要緊張好 第二個我請問一下 現在我們今天討論的這些條文剛剛有委員說這個所得替代率 說什麼B 六天再加給我量一段 量到B50幾%這數字是怎樣 給我補充 沒時間談 你講一下"},{"start":186.825,"end":215.092,"text":"跟委員報告因為是不同性質的一個保險或職業年紀的性質其實以所得替代率來講或許在有有些部分老保會比較高可是因為回到實際的投保薪資來講其實整體來說公教人員的月退租金還是普遍的比老保所領的月退還要高普遍啦公教捏比老保還多這聽起來也正常正常"},{"start":216.147,"end":231.81,"text":"因為公交要科技嘛公交要科技所以現在你說你省給平均5.8萬現在已經退休了啦我請問你退休的公交人員現在最多多少最多多少一個位這因為跟他的薪職年資不太一樣我知道我知道最多可以多多少平均"},{"start":246.789,"end":269.903,"text":"跟委員報告 平均來講 因為剛剛有報告過平均來講大概是五萬八嘛沒有啦 這平均就不準 有人捏多 有人捏少 最多要捏多少最多這主流可能還要查再給委員沒有 你如果說這個什麼公立學校的老師 做到好長對不對要四十年四十年退休 他最多要捏多少"},{"start":270.899,"end":288.184,"text":"跟委員報告 最多在這裡的資料大概八萬六八萬六 最少的最少有到三萬幾喔但是三萬幾的人其實大概差不多一千六百幾為什麼你那麼少"},{"start":289.468,"end":301.356,"text":"這就是剛才市長說的因為這年資有關係跟他當時在限職的時候他的本薪是有關係的所以本薪本來就低"},{"start":302.079,"end":318.814,"text":"然後他可能那個年資也不長那就退了是不是這樣我跟委員報告一個數據就是說我們如果以實質的所得替代率來講大概落的區間就是最高到最低大概是落在你薪資大概是73%到53%左右"},{"start":321.758,"end":332.047,"text":"那這樣子的一個所得替代率 大概跟OECD國家比起來我們最低都還是OECD 其他國家比不要比啦 因為其他國家的物價水準不一樣啦我們現在跟社會說 其實退休的老師 退休的老師啦公益學校的老師 最多啦 最高的 已經做三四十年 退休的他也差不多八萬幾啦 我這樣說對不對 最高"},{"start":348.14,"end":350.805,"text":"阿子豪做這關的 他可能本地薪水就多 連資委也沒做到很久他就拿了 他也只有三萬幾啦"},{"start":358.397,"end":376.961,"text":"這樣說對不對目前的地板是3萬7啦地板是3萬7那有一些比3萬7更低是因為在連改之前它本來的月退就是比較低所以那個原來就低於3萬7的這次的連改根本不會去動到好 這樣剛才說這條時間有調過6%所以你想這3萬多的它也對在調就對了8萬多的也都有對在調是"},{"start":385.066,"end":398.27,"text":"那那個條的機制就是今天有委員提出來的幾年檢討百分之多少就從那個地方動了嘛對不對是 67條很明確的規定就是政府百分之五或是我們如果沒有條每四年就會檢討一次好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":375,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（10時7分）謝謝主席，我們請教育部次長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請朱次長。"],["朱次長俊彰：委員好。"],["王委員義川：次長好。上次我總質詢有問部長關於抖音（TikTok）的問題，最近教育部有沒有做什麼事？"],["朱次長俊彰：跟委員報告，我們目前針對小紅書跟抖音這方面來自中國的app，依照行政院的指示，事實上我們都有一些相關的建議措施。比如說在小紅書，我們有提出「不迷小紅書，青春不迷途」；在抖音的部分，我們有短影音專區，針對裡面可能涉及的一些詐騙或是不實錯假訊息，我們都有整理出來放到專區。未來也會從各個……"],["王委員義川：專區去哪裡放？去抖音放還是怎樣？"],["朱次長俊彰：專區我們會……"],["王委員義川：看抖音的人，你要跟他說抖音的不好，你不就要拿去抖音放，他們才看得到？"],["朱次長俊彰：是。目前大概第一個部分是掛在我們各學校網站……"],["王委員義川：你如果要掛、要處理這件事、要做這個短片，你就要去抖音放，說你們抖音不好，這樣抖音才會傳回來讓大家看到，邏輯是不是這樣？"],["朱次長俊彰：這個我們沒想到，我們來研究。"],["王委員義川：因為我上次講的時候，部長跟院長說要請一些團體來討論國中小校園禁用抖音的事情，這事情要加速。"],["朱次長俊彰：是。"],["王委員義川：因為家長比較多是支持的，而教育現場的老師會覺得這可能會麻煩，一些小朋友也知道這個消息，他們會覺得這樣他改天就不能看了，所以多方的考量，請教育部在這議題上面大家來討論，不一定答案是什麼，但我是主張要禁，我是主張校園裡面要禁。當然數位部有說，把抖音在校園裡頭屏蔽掉，但抖音跟TikTok是一樣的東西，不是取一個英語名字就比較高級，不是說TikTok不是抖音，TikTok就是抖音，寫英語而已，後臺也是中國啦，假鬼假怪！什麼TikTok就不是，全部都是！你們研究看看，校園裡面都要禁掉。"],["朱次長俊彰：是。"],["王委員義川：第二個我請問一下，我們今天討論的這些條文，剛剛有委員說所得替代率比勞工還要低，還唸到比率是百分之五十幾，這數字是怎樣？剛才部長沒時間可以說，你說一下。"],["朱次長俊彰：因為是不同性質的保險或職業年金的性質，以所得替代率來講，或許有些部分勞保會比較高，可是因為回到實際的投保薪資來講，其實整體來說，公教人員的月退休金還是普遍比勞保所領的月退還要高。"],["王委員義川：普遍啦！"],["朱次長俊彰：對。"],["王委員義川：公教領比勞保還多，這聽起來也正常正常的啊，因為公教要考試嘛！所以現在你們算起來平均差不多5.8萬……"],["朱次長俊彰：平均5.8萬。"],["王委員義川：就是現在已經退休的嘛！"],["朱次長俊彰：是。"],["王委員義川：是已經退休的。好，我請問你，現在退休的公教人員最多領多少？"],["朱次長俊彰：最多領多少？"],["王委員義川：一個月。"],["朱次長俊彰：因為這跟他的薪職、年資不太一樣……"],["王委員義川：我知道、我知道，最多可以領到多少？"],["朱次長俊彰：平均，最多……"],["林處長建璋：跟委員報告，剛剛有報告過，平均來講大概是5萬8,000元。"],["王委員義川：沒有啦，看平均不準，有人領多、有人領少，最多可以領到多少？"],["林處長建璋：最多領多少，相關的資料，可能還要查。"],["王委員義川：如果公立學校的老師當到校長，做了30年、40年退休，他最多大概可以領多少？"],["林處長建璋：跟委員報告，根據我這裡的資料，最多大概8萬6,000元。"],["王委員義川：8萬6,000元？"],["林處長建璋：是。"],["王委員義川：那最少呢？"],["林處長建璋：最少有到三萬多，不過三萬多的人其實差不多是一千六百多人。"],["王委員義川：為什麼領那麼少？"],["林處長建璋：就是剛才次長說的，因為和年資有關係，也跟他當時現職時的本薪有關係。"],["王委員義川：所以本薪本來就低，他可能年資也不長就退休了，是不是這樣？"],["朱次長俊彰：我跟委員報告一個數據，我們如果以實質的所得替代率來講，最高到最低的區間大概是落在薪資73%到53%左右，這樣的所得替代率跟OECD國家比起來，我們最低都還有……"],["王委員義川：不要和其他國家比，因為大家的物價水準不一樣。我們現在跟社會說，其實退休的公立學校老師最多、領最高的像校長，已經做了30年、40年退休的，他們也差不多領八萬多，我這樣說對不對？"],["朱次長俊彰：最高。"],["王委員義川：好，學校職員可能本來薪水就低，可能年資也沒有很久就退休了，他也領三萬多，這樣說對嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：目前的地板是3萬7,000元。"],["王委員義川：地板是3萬7,000元？"],["朱次長俊彰：對，有一些比3萬7,000元更低是因為在年改之前本來的月退就比較低，所以原來就低於3萬7,000的，這次年改根本不會去動到。"],["王委員義川：好，剛才有說到，這段時間有調過6%，所以最少三萬多的人也跟著調就對了？"],["朱次長俊彰：是。"],["王委員義川：八萬多的也跟著調？"],["朱次長俊彰：是。"],["王委員義川：關於調的機制，也就是今天有委員提出來的，幾年檢討百分之多少，就從那個地方動了，對不對？"],["朱次長俊彰：是，在第六十七條很明確的規定，就是正負百分之五，如果沒有調，每4年就會檢討一次。"],["王委員義川：好，謝謝。"],["朱次長俊彰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員總是非常遵守時間，謝謝您。","接下來我們請劉書彬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","speakers":["翁曉玲","賴士葆","張智倫","許宇甄","黃健豪","林倩綺","黃國昌","王義川","柯志恩","陳培瑜","萬美玲","劉書彬","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","范雲","黃建賓","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳沛憶","葉元之","陳秀寳","沈發惠","謝龍介","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","傅崐萁"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草\n案」案；( 二) 國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案；(三)委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條\n文修正草案」案；(四)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條\n文修正草案」案；(五)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(七)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；(八)委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(九)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(十)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}