{"error":false,"id":["164415"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":164415,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164415","日期":"2025-10-20","影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-20T10:58:16+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-20T11:06:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:04","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1b6410ca7c0d46418e2e2f7db73b8fc9c783c966d97180d5d2e027a2bf8945983e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:58:16 - 11:06:20","會議時間":"2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"1.蔣被提名人榮先-立法院第11屆第4會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函送國家通訊傳播委員會委員提名名單，蔣榮先為委員並為主任委員，程明修為委員並為副主任委員，黃葳威及羅慧雯均為委員，請同意案。\n【10月20日（星期一）依序分別審查蔣被提名人榮先、程被提名人明修；10月22日（星期三）依序分別審查黃被提名人葳威、羅被提名人慧雯。】\n【10月20日及22日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.1234687500000002,"end":5.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.2497187499999995,"end":4.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.62784375,"end":22.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.60096875,"end":40.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.47409375,"end":26.727218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.12284375,"end":33.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.603468750000005,"end":36.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.41284375,"end":49.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.77971875,"end":42.977843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.14596875,"end":48.462218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.69409375,"end":52.377218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.28471875,"end":50.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.377218750000004,"end":72.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.44471875,"end":52.461593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.44159375000001,"end":90.16034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.63284375,"end":93.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.89846875,"end":93.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.36659375,"end":96.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.24346875,"end":114.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.34846875000001,"end":101.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.98784375000001,"end":116.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.27846875,"end":124.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.13846875,"end":122.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.07909375000001,"end":127.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.08721875,"end":127.08284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.97284375,"end":130.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.89659375000002,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.71471875,"end":178.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.29409375,"end":193.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.82346875000002,"end":225.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.25721875000002,"end":229.56471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.05409375000002,"end":236.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.12471875000003,"end":247.28346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.84034375000002,"end":248.95409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.47721875000002,"end":250.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.77659375000002,"end":262.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.15846875,"end":273.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.82784375,"end":274.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.24534375,"end":278.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.39659375,"end":282.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.94034375,"end":287.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.12096875000003,"end":289.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.80846875000003,"end":295.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.12409375000004,"end":297.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.14471875000004,"end":300.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.63784375,"end":307.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.36659375,"end":316.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.82534375,"end":320.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.65596875,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.46784375000004,"end":339.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.12971875,"end":345.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.96846875,"end":346.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.49159375000005,"end":352.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.76909375,"end":354.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.59159375,"end":356.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.32971875000004,"end":363.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.16846875000005,"end":378.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.51596875,"end":381.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.16534375000003,"end":390.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.48034375000003,"end":395.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.03659375,"end":399.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.95159375000003,"end":404.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.81596875,"end":405.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.40221875000003,"end":407.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.49034375,"end":411.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.89909375,"end":426.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.49596875000003,"end":430.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.59659375,"end":437.262218750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請召貝提名人請貝提名人委員好貝提名人你好我想先確認一下因為您剛剛是說您是5月5號被諮詢對不對"},{"start":24.753,"end":48.286,"text":"是我剛才也利用了一個空檔把我那個所有的事情都卡出來了所以我把我的時間呢完全做一個正確的一個回應一個是謝謝您的提問一個是4月21號的中午另外一次呢是5月5號的下午4月21號就被問了然後5月5號下午所以4月21號你那時候沒有同意5月5號再一次跟您確認是這個意思嗎那5月5號就答應了"},{"start":49.767,"end":70.928,"text":"5月5號那時候我就跟 跟院長答應了好 就答應了那 因為行政院是在7月31號才把說四位名單送過來嘛5月5號到7月31號有兩個多月啦我是不知道這兩個多月是發生什麼事情可能那時候大概大罷免吧所以行政院想說看看等到大罷免結果民進黨會不會掌握國會多數再送啦但這就凸顯一個問題啦"},{"start":72.529,"end":96.736,"text":"就是好像行政院也不認為NCC是一個重要的機關我們在去年的時候那時候曾經有問過翁伯忠之前的代理主委他說NCC如果沒有沒有順利組成委員會的話最嚴重的問題就是iPhone不法上市您知道這事嗎同樣的問題想跟您同樣的問題想跟您請教一下如果沒有NCC的話最嚴重的事情是什麼"},{"start":98.894,"end":115.503,"text":"NCC根據它的組織法它是負責全國的通訊跟傳播媒體的監管所以如果當沒有這樣的一個機構的話勢必我們的媒體或者是我們的所有的通訊傳播應該是會有混亂的情形會混亂所以你覺得現在蠻混亂"},{"start":117.718,"end":130.05,"text":"現在目前他仍然有一個質疑委員會仍然在運行當中所以也很慶幸的這段時間所以沒有委員也無所謂反正有委員會可以運行所以你的態度是什麼"},{"start":131.139,"end":147.754,"text":"我的態度是覺得NCC是一個國家重要的機關所以這當然跟你無關啦這就跟你的詢答就凸顯一個問題嘛行政院講話就矛盾嘛跟NCC講話也都矛盾嘛一方面告訴大家講說iPhone無法上市後來現在不是iPhone18還要上市"},{"start":148.354,"end":168.615,"text":"NCC後來又自己解釋說是因為後來有修改法規內部的法規本來就是可以修改法規所以這不是一個很困難的事然後您是4月多就被諮詢5月5號就同意了但行政院可以壓到7月底才送把名單送過來現在才開始審代表說行政院也不認為說NCC是一個重要的機關所以才會拖這麼久"},{"start":169.716,"end":181.948,"text":"然後您剛剛又講說其實這段時間媒體也有一個運行機制因為有諮詢委員會所以感覺上好像NCC這個委員會是可有可無啦我知道到目前為止感覺是可有可無"},{"start":183.891,"end":204.277,"text":"之前NCC做了一件讓大家覺得很不可思議的事情我也想問一下您的態度就是針對中天電視台中天電視台現在已經跟NCC有關係因為NCC把它關台了關台以後關台的理由是因為它被裁罰很多可是被裁罰的案件一一被打臉我們來看一下"},{"start":205.377,"end":222.382,"text":"這是二十六連敗最近的一次是有三個案件就是藍色標出來的包括就是討論農漁產的滯銷啊卡救命錢養蚊滅寒啊還有一個什麼質疑蔡英文舊音樂登革樂年遇八百萬這三個案子當時被NCC認為任由來賓辱罵官員"},{"start":226.343,"end":247.033,"text":"而且呢 沒有查證 所以就罰了結果你可以看 這個中天呢一審慎 二審慎 終審慎換言之呢 法院打臉的NCC當時的濫罰那 但問題是 NCC當時濫罰然後就用這個理由把中天關台所以現在 我們現在電視台就少一台嘛 中天嘛"},{"start":247.893,"end":272.22,"text":"原因是因為中天批評政府我問一下主委其中有一個超離譜的有一個名嘴謝寒冰他在其中一個案子裡面的政論節目他說陳吉仲是有史以來最不適任的主委請問一下主委這個是請問一下謝寒冰他說陳吉仲是有史以來最不適任的主委這是評論"},{"start":274.008,"end":300.136,"text":"還是亂罵還是沒有客觀沒有查證應該是哪一個好的 其實呢媒體在報導的時候他有他認定的自行權所以呢如果根據剛剛那個說法的話呢應該是說這些我們聽起來不舒服的不好聽的聲音其實也害他的言論自由所以要關台啊所以要裁罰啊以前NCC這樣就裁罰啦"},{"start":301.684,"end":314.081,"text":"就裁罰啦那如果你當了主委之後你可以認同過去NCC這樣的做法嗎這裡的案件如果每一個案件經過裁罰的過程當中它是都是經過合議制來討論的"},{"start":317.337,"end":339.198,"text":"何一致那你也是其中一員嘛我們現在是在問你的態度嘛你覺得一個名嘴批評說陳吉仲是有史以來最不適任的官員然後NCT就說你沒有做好查證工作然後說中天任由來賓辱罵政府就裁罰耶如果您是主委的話您認同這樣的態度嗎"},{"start":340.179,"end":359.87,"text":"好 剛剛前面幾位委員也質詢過相似的問題那我把我的想法跟大家說一下確實中天案在法律上面已經造成了社會大眾對他的NC的程序正義造成一些比例原則的質疑這是現況那我們言論自由保護的尺度就是剛 如同我剛剛的看法"},{"start":360.35,"end":375.023,"text":"是應該只要他敘述的出來沒有歷史性的危險所以 你是不認同這樣的看法嗎那我接下來繼續問因為NCC為了要保自己的面子就一直在打官司打官司花的都是人民的納稅錢訴訟費 訴訟費非常高只要光是去年訴訟費就685萬"},{"start":382.236,"end":398.423,"text":"如果您當了主委之後 您還會堅持去打這種官司嗎一直無止盡的花人民的納稅錢然後去打官司 打到最後一直連敗嗎好 我雖然對不做假設性的問題做回答不過可以看得出來當他這些的訴訟費用是真的確實浪費"},{"start":400.597,"end":425.585,"text":"人民的納稅錢的話他是應該被考慮不要去再進行不要再進行不要再訴訟是不是所以說有機會的話我會請法治處呢NCC法治處重新去研擬這些應該應對的方案謝謝那請問一下那如果因為當時NCC把中天關掉的理由其中之一是說中天違規非常多嘛那現在顯然啊是NCC當時的濫罰人家已經幫平反所以他並沒有違規那麼多"},{"start":426.585,"end":442.121,"text":"那如果中天現在就會打那個關台無效之訴那如果到時候法院確定撤銷NCC的原處分發回NCC重新裁決的時候那個被提名的態度是什麼"},{"start":442.847,"end":460.605,"text":"好 謝謝委員的提問他非常清楚就是依據司法的判決來做最後的詳細的細節的處置沒有 依據司法判決是說撤銷原處分啊但是會叫你另為裁判那您的判決您的決定是什麼就是根據司法的判決來去做處置就是給他讓他照計序嗎"},{"start":461.406,"end":483.662,"text":"我們現在還不知道司法判決是什麼我的意思就是說如果說把你撤銷的話然後認為說NCC當時都濫訴嘛所以你關台的理由沒有了嘛又發給你們你們會讓他復台嗎還是根據司法的判決他最後的這個解讀謝謝好 謝謝謝謝葉元之委員發言完畢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}