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我還會幫你整理耶你8號發一個新聞稿 16號發一個LV"},{"start":247.23,"end":275.556,"text":"是我們夜上 是我們眼睛的夜上太重 看不到這也是我們看到這個戰事區我們當時宣導的是戰事區我們全部都清完了 這個照片在這裡啊所以我長的那個是什麼東西那個是 靈芯說是喔 跑出來的話我們要繼續去巡檢一大堆在那要靈芯喔 來 我再給你看不是只有那一大堆 來 市長你看 旁邊來旁邊 上一張"},{"start":277.505,"end":304.987,"text":"這個一樣是10月18號的新聞欸就剛剛那個一大坨的旁邊地面上是什麼左邊這一張破碎的光電板他的右上角這個是破碎的這個湖板下面還有金屬的這個擴建欸中間這張是什麼破碎的光電板很嚴重的現在環境部長在那連那個廢棄的電線都還在那裡右邊是什麼剛剛看那個亮亮的"},{"start":306.354,"end":324.101,"text":"破碎的光電板經濟部到底是怎樣是眼睛有業障一般人都看得到你們看不到還是你們變成一個造謠部並沒有沒有 為什麼我今天不是只有看得到全台灣民眾都看得到 怎麼看不到你們還要發個新聞稿說是民眾在造謠"},{"start":325.359,"end":353.761,"text":"並沒有這個事情第一個我們除了全部的這個戰事區這個部分我們在災後協調戰事區我們清完了之後我們還定期派人去比如說像這兩天我們還派了同仁然後去現場去看因為有一些的地方他可能被泥土所遮蓋的慢慢的有出來的那當然我們這個會要求他去處理不是你說的那個什麼被泥土掩蓋嘛對不對你說你們都還找人下去看那你們怎麼可以在8號跟16號"},{"start":355.407,"end":380.046,"text":"你們不只是說已經清完欸你們還說民眾不要再以而傳而欸你們是要反駁聯合報的報導反駁立法院的質詢欸你們這樣不是在自打嘴巴嗎不是 那張照片的出處我們會去了解一下那張照片的出處我們絕對會去了解來來 我再給你看剛講的是 戰事區對不對你說戰事區把制洪池都處理好了來 我給你看這是新聞的制洪池欸電話下一下 請請測測"},{"start":386.223,"end":398.079,"text":"那個是什麼 像小船是不是幾十艘的小船 現在在志鴻池的上面這是看 怎麼會看不 你還找人下去看"},{"start":399.162,"end":417.279,"text":"不過我們定期去巡檢確實是如此這個裡面的這個浮台據我的同仁去現場巡檢了解它大概有可能有兩種樣態一種樣態是它是定位點的這個浮台第二個部分是過去沉在這個水面裡面的話"},{"start":417.839,"end":445.088,"text":"那慢慢因為水波的這個衝擊或水滴的衝擊慢慢再浮出來了所以這也是為什麼我們今天還有再請人家去尋檢的關係我們不會說清完的時候完全置之不理清不乾淨結果你還敢發兩篇新聞稿還罵說大家以訛傳訛連我在立法院在質詢你們都可以講說都清完了就救資料我現在給你最新的資料那這樣不是變成兩個很嚴重問題嗎你清完這個東西你變成是一個錯誤的消息"},{"start":445.808,"end":466.584,"text":"第二個 你還幫別人造謠 變成自己在造謠啦而且這個啦 你看 次長你看十幾... 十...好像那個小船一樣 十幾艘以上在那個水面上你都... 你只要走過去 一般的民眾就看得到啦不要媒體去採訪 不要立法院去看一般民眾只要從這個新聞 這個大馬路過去就看到了捏阿甘 你在孫孫博 你不是故意在誤導嗎"},{"start":468.523,"end":496.034,"text":"我不要只有罵你啦我是說我現在是跟你講道理講得很清楚我給你看有圖有真相對不對啊這個是新聞的這個志鴻池你趕快找人去看好不好謝謝委員的資料給我們順便去尋查一下我會給你啊你也看一下來你看一下不是只有那個小船在左邊飄你看右邊來來OK我給你看一下右邊那個是什麼那是廢棄的光電板啊那麼清楚啊來再下一張我為他證實是昨天去的喔我特別拿了昨天的報紙給你喝飽"},{"start":497.694,"end":523.112,"text":"昨天鄭麗文 前天當選這個黨主席鄭麗文當選國民黨黨主席 對這是19號的報紙我昨天人就在這個地方那我看到就剛剛講 剛剛給大家看了18號跟19號裡面的戰事區沒有清完製縫池 該清的沒有清完你看 這個製縫池 你看旁邊這個是什麼這是個很完整的光電板 整個整個好好的 整座都在這裡好好的"},{"start":524.755,"end":533.038,"text":"你怎麼連這東西都沒清呢右邊是破碎的光電板你隨便一看就抓得到了這個我們去查明一下"},{"start":534.232,"end":559.462,"text":"那個市長你們當初當初沒有會漏洞這麼大沒看到是你們自己去看的還是環境部給你們的資料不是吧不是我們有自己我們在後有沒有最後因為時間有限來我我整理一下啦OK來下來下來我來我們最後時間有限我做一個第一個齁我鄭重的呼籲不是只有立法院在問政我很感動聯合報的記者一組人喔"},{"start":560.461,"end":580.109,"text":"一組人去做了90天對嘉義廢棄的光電板的追蹤他們說什麼 這是一個食言的教訓政策暴衝導致短短4年一個颱風來就翻車了而且要全民去買單到現在該清的還沒清完是不是污染了土地然後還要講說民眾在造謠這都嚴重的一個事情"},{"start":581.58,"end":608.263,"text":"我請那個部長跟次長回去看一看聯合報的那個追蹤報導90天的追蹤報導 好不好另外我做三個 簡單我做三個要求 來第一個 針對這一次為什麼出現剛剛我講的根本沒有清完 你竟然講說是清完了到底出了什麼問題 實地再去勘查 好不好然後盡快提出一個檢討沒有清完了 趕快清走 好不好這是第一個要求 第三個"},{"start":609.659,"end":638.521,"text":"一定要水面光電板的一個災害的應變計畫這個應該是環境部跟經濟部要趕快盡力出來 好不好要趕緊 第二個我們民眾黨已經針對水庫跟水面型上面要納這個環評請環境部跟行政院跟經濟部不是只有做評估啦趕快提出一個審議板來 好不好就提這三大要求好 一起努力 拜託一下大家只要到嘉義"},{"start":639.801,"end":646.656,"text":"新聞還有一些那個自封紙那個旁邊去看就會發現戰事區跟自封紙都是沒有清乾淨 乾淨要清乾淨好 謝謝好 謝謝張祺凱委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":870,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時43分）謝謝主席。請經濟部賴次長跟環境部彭部長。"],["主席：請賴次長、彭部長。"],["賴次長建信：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，我看經濟部從8號發了新聞稿、16號又發了FB，你們都在強調嘉義廢棄的光電板已經完全清完了，不管是滯洪池還是暫置區，說不要再以訛傳訛，確定都清完了嗎？"],["賴次長建信：現在還有部分在合法的暫置區域裡面，其他的部分都在……"],["張委員啓楷：暫置區你不是說都清掉了？你看你自己的圖，暫置區10月11號以前不是全部都清完了嗎？"],["賴次長建信：那個是在……"],["張委員啓楷：這個是你自己打臉自己的新聞稿啊？"],["賴次長建信：那個是在4個場區當時災後緊急暫置的一個區域。"],["張委員啓楷：這個是16號剛剛發的，距離現在才5天。"],["賴次長建信：是啊！"],["張委員啓楷：所以我們先確認一下新塭、貴舍、荷苞嶼、新庄案場，滯洪池本身是7月24號就完成了，對不對？新庄是7月30號，這個沒錯，對不對？這沒錯嘛！暫置區照你的新聞稿跟你剛剛的FB，還叫民眾不要以訛傳訛，來看一下，所以新塭是10月11號以前清除，貴舍都是10月11號以前清完嘛，對不對？是不是照你的新聞稿？"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["張委員啓楷：是喔！我昨天特別下去看，這是嘉義新塭滯洪池的暫置區，你看帆布蓋起來，從外面都看得到裡面裝的是什麼？破碎的光電板跟絞碎的浮板。次長，你們為什麼那麼急著8號要發新聞稿、16號要發？這上面還一大堆，這還不是剛剛環境部在講零星的，那麼一大堆，次長。"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我再進一步給你看，這是旁邊暫置區，散落的……你看左邊的圖，中間那個是破碎的光電板，次長，你先看，怎麼說？"],["賴次長建信：第一個，我們剛剛說明丹娜絲的時候，我們有一個緊急的暫置區，包括水面的太陽能光電板，這個我們確實都已經有清完了。至於你剛剛的畫面，包括後面那一張畫面顯示的，應該是委員最近有去看的。"],["張委員啓楷：昨天去看的啊！"],["賴次長建信：對，這個部分我們還是會定期去看，若還有沒清理的話，會依照相關的規定來處理。"],["張委員啓楷：所以發新聞稿的時候，你全部都清完了啊？"],["賴次長建信：我們確實在工業區旁邊的暫置區，當時協調完的那個都清完了。"],["張委員啓楷：來！我剛剛還問你，回到新塭、貴舍，我還幫你整理，8號發一個新聞稿、16號發一個FB。"],["賴次長建信：是啊！"],["張委員啓楷：是我們眼睛的業障太重看不到，還是經濟部也變成造謠部啊？"],["賴次長建信：這也是我們看到這個暫置區，我們當時協調的這個暫置區全部都清完了，這個照片在這裡。"],["張委員啓楷：所以我昨天的照片，那是什麼東西？"],["賴次長建信：那個是零星跑出來的話，我們會繼續去巡檢。"],["張委員啓楷：那個一大堆在那裡叫零星喔！我再給你看，不是只有那一大堆，次長你看，這個一樣是10月18號新塭的，就剛剛那一大陀的旁邊，地面上是什麼？左邊這一張破碎的光電板、右上角是破碎的浮板、下面還有金屬扣件，這一張中間是破碎的光電板，很嚴重的，現在環境部長在這裡，連廢棄的電線都還在那裡，右邊是什麼？看那個亮亮的是破碎的光電板，經濟部到底是怎樣？是眼睛有業障，一般人都看得到，你們看不到，還是你們變成一個造謠部？"],["賴次長建信：並沒有，我們……"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，為什麼今天不是只有我看得到，全臺灣民眾都看得到，為什麼你看不到？"],["賴次長建信：我們針對於所清理大數的……"],["張委員啓楷：你們還要發新聞稿說是民眾在造謠啊！"],["賴次長建信：並沒有這個事情。第一個，我們除了全部的暫置區，這個部分我們在災後協調的暫置區把它清完了之後，我們還定期派人去，比如像這兩天我們還派了同仁到現場去看，因為有一些的地方可能被泥土所遮蓋的，慢慢地有出來的，當然我們會要求他去處理。"],["張委員啓楷：那一大堆不是你說的被泥土遮蓋嘛，對不對？第二個，你說你們都還要找人下去看，你們怎麼可以在8號跟16號不只說已經清完，你們還說民眾不要再以訛傳訛？你們是要反駁聯合報的報導、反駁立法院的質詢。"],["賴次長建信：那一張照片的出處，我們會去了解一下。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，你們這樣不是自打嘴巴嗎？變成造謠部啊！"],["賴次長建信：不是，那一張照片的出處，我們絕對會去了解。"],["張委員啓楷：我再給你看，剛剛講的是暫置區，你說暫置區跟滯洪池都處理好了，我給你看，有沒有嚇一大跳？這是新塭的滯洪池，地點我寫得清清楚楚，那個是什麼？像小船是不是？幾十艘的小船，現在還在滯洪池上面！"],["賴次長建信：這個我讓……"],["張委員啓楷：為什麼會看不到？你又說你還找人下去看。"],["賴次長建信：不過我們定期去巡檢確實是如此，這裡面的浮臺據同仁去現場巡檢了解，大概可能有兩種樣態：一種樣態是，它是定位點的浮臺；第二個部分是過去沉在水裡面，因為水波的衝擊或水力的衝擊，慢慢再浮出來了，所以這也是為什麼我們今天還有再請人家去巡檢，我們不會清完的時候，完全置之不理……"],["張委員啓楷：所以你可能清不乾淨，結果還敢發兩篇新聞稿罵大家以訛傳訛，連我在立法院質詢，你們都可以說都清完了，那個是舊資料。我現在給你最新的資料，這樣不就變成兩個很嚴重的問題嗎？你清完這個東西，變成是一個錯誤的消息；第二個你還罵別人造謠，變成自己在造謠啦！"],["賴次長建信：沒有。"],["張委員啓楷：而且這個，次長，你看！好像小船一樣，十幾艘以上在水面上，只要走過去，一般的民眾就看得到了，不要媒體去採訪、不要立法委員去看，一般民眾只要從新塭這個大馬路走過去就看到了啊！就只有你們在巡卻巡不到，你們是故意在誤導嗎？我不要只有罵你啦！我現在是跟你講道理，講得很清楚，我給你看，有圖有真相，對不對？這個是新塭的滯洪池，你趕快找人去看，好不好？我再給你看……"],["賴次長建信：謝謝，委員的資料也給我們，我們順便去巡查一下。"],["張委員啓楷：對，我會給你。你也看一下，不是只有小船在左邊漂，你看右邊，我給你看一下右邊是什麼？那是廢棄的光電板，那麼清楚啊！再下一張，我為了證實是昨天去的，特別拿了昨天的報紙聯合報，前天鄭麗文當選國民黨黨主席，這是19號的報紙，我昨天人就在這個地方，看到的就是剛剛給大家看的18號跟19號裡面的暫置區沒有清完，滯洪池該清的也沒有清完。你看滯洪池旁邊這個是什麼？這是很完整的光電板，整組完完整整的在這裡，怎麼連東西都沒清呢？右邊是破碎的光電板，隨便一看就抓得到了。"],["賴次長建信：這個我們去查明。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，當初漏洞這麼大卻沒看到，是你們自己去看的，還是環境部給的資料？不是吧？"],["賴次長建信：不是，我們災後有去巡查。"],["張委員啓楷：最後因為時間有限，第一個，我鄭重地呼籲，不是只有立法委員在問政，我很感動，聯合報的記者一組人做了90天對嘉義廢棄光電板的追蹤，他們說這是一個10億元的教訓，政策暴衝導致短短四年，一個颱風來就翻車了，而且要全民去買單。到現在該清的還沒清完，是不是污染了土地？然後還要說是民眾在造謠，這是多麼嚴重的事情。我請部長跟次長回去好好看一看聯合報的那個追蹤報導，90天的追蹤報導，好不好？","另外我簡單做三個要求：第一個，針對這一次為什麼會出現剛剛我講的根本就沒有清完，你竟然說清完了！到底出了什麼問題，實地再去勘查好不好？然後儘快提出檢討，沒有清完的就趕快清走，好不好？這是第一個要求；第二個，我們民眾黨已經針對水庫跟水面型要納入環評，請環境部跟行政院、經濟部，不是只有做評估啦！趕快提出一個政院版來，好不好？第三個，一定要有水面型光電板的災害應變計畫，這個應該是環境部跟經濟部要趕快擬出來，好不好？就提這三大要求，一起努力，拜託一下，大家只要到嘉義新塭那些滯洪池旁邊去看，就會發現暫置區跟滯洪池都沒有清乾淨，趕快去把它清乾淨，謝謝。"],["主席（廖委員偉翔）：謝謝張啓楷委員發言。","請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-5","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","陳菁徽","林月琴","劉建國","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","王育敏","張啓楷","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","王正旭","林淑芬","涂權吉","楊曜","陳瑩","盧縣一","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部、經濟部、農業部、內政部就「太陽能光電板案場環評機制與保護區廢棄物管理\n之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六\n條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二\n十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草\n案」案、( 五) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、\n(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員\n牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪\n音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案【專題報告及法律案採綜合詢答；法律案僅\n詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}