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先做一下宣告每位出席委員發言時間5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘列席委員發言時間4分鐘中午12點截止發言登記現在依照登記順序請登記第一位的林德夫委員質詢"},{"start":726.143,"end":728.964,"text":"謝謝 主席是不是請莊部長有請莊部長委員好部長你好 部長我請教"},{"start":738.732,"end":759.352,"text":"因為這個公告為確保國內物資充裕穩定物價依貨物稅條例第七條與第十條及關稅法第七十一條規定奉報行政院核定從二零二五年一月一日起至同年的三月底"},{"start":760.753,"end":776.747,"text":"3月31號截止繼續對汽油柴油水泥以及22項的這些大宗物資激動降稅這是第13度的延長那部長按照足跡總署去年底針對"},{"start":779.059,"end":779.439,"text":"你的看法呢"},{"start":808.118,"end":814.762,"text":"謝謝委員對於有關大宗物資減徵或免徵關稅營業稅以及貨物稅這個部分如同委員剛剛提到已經是好幾回的一個延長那這一次是會延長到114年的3月31號而這樣的決策主要是行政院有一個物價"},{"start":826.509,"end":827.95,"text":"穩定小組的會議大家討論包含經濟部農業部等評估國內外的物資供需還有價格的走勢那為了減增成本的效益以及國發會跟組總他會觀察近期CPI的一個趨勢變動所以我們認為延長到"},{"start":843.979,"end":858.129,"text":"今年的3月31號是妥適我們是希望尤其在這一段時間也是年節的期間民眾對物資的採購需求是比較大的所以我覺得為了穩定國內的物價以及物資的充裕這部分就延長到3月"},{"start":860.183,"end":873.007,"text":"據本席所了解 上個月中旬行政院召開物價穩定小組會議會議中提到 如果今年第一季國際農工原料價格趨緩 國內物價持續趨穩且未來展望維持穩定"},{"start":881.212,"end":893.543,"text":"即可據研議政策在3月借期退場部長那就財政部統計資料來看請問關鍵原物料護稅減徵措施在3月退場的機率你認為有幾成"},{"start":902.244,"end":916.943,"text":"我想對於物價的一個波動那國內的相關的一個主管機關不管是國發會也好 主機總署也好都一直在觀察它的一個變化以及經濟部跟農業部它也會對於這些國內外的物資的一個價格"},{"start":918.044,"end":924.208,"text":"還有供需情形在評估那麼行政院也會在物價穩定小組裡面去做一些討論那當然在今年的您剛剛提到這個會議裡面認為目前來說是價格趨緩物價也是處於一個穩定的狀態所以在三月底以後是不是要退場會到時候會在三月底之前會整體再來評估跟考量的"},{"start":940.978,"end":961.47,"text":"那部長實施延長原物料降稅的做法行政院物價穩定小組會議這次會後新聞稿突然提到措施將退場會不會造成供需市場囤積的狙擊繼續推升物價的反效果會不會"},{"start":962.51,"end":965.813,"text":"是的,對委員這個關心,其實我們在這個除了穩定物價小組之外,還有一個聯合稽查小組,他會去關注民生物價的波動情形,如果有不當的一個所謂囤積,或者甚至不合理的漲價我們都會做聯合稽查,而這個聯合稽查也是跨部會在做的,那包含"},{"start":985.367,"end":988.949,"text":"我們的國稅局也會一起去參與這個部分也就是避免您剛剛提到的就是說囤積居期然後或者造成物價變動的一些影響我想這個部分我們的聯合稽查小組也會持續的去做觀察跟稽查"},{"start":1002.697,"end":1013.846,"text":"部長 上個禮拜二中央研究院經濟研究所發布台灣消費者疫情與政策反應調查發現近三年約有24.3%的黃東"},{"start":1018.685,"end":1044.051,"text":"漲租金那預估未來一到兩年更有三成的黃東計畫調漲租金這也是成為近年通膨居高不下的壓力來源那另外中研院經濟研究所預估明年CPI增幅2.02%恐怕是連四年啦衝破通膨的警戒線那部長"},{"start":1045.111,"end":1055.419,"text":"如果依照中研院的預估財政部延誤掉降稅退場的這個預計時程是不是可能會延後你的看法呢"},{"start":1057.202,"end":1075.75,"text":"是的我想那個經濟所當然它也有它的預估我們祖宗也有祖宗的預估那祖宗他對於今年14年的預估是1.93但這個部分大家都還是要持續的觀察物價的一個波動情形那你認為主計總署和中研院的預測誰比較客觀"},{"start":1078.715,"end":1089.762,"text":"基本上他們都有相關的客觀數據那當然預測上因為各機關他們有不同的一些看法那不同看法總是你認為他的準確度誰比較高"},{"start":1091.042,"end":1101.689,"text":"我這個很難講說誰的準確度高那我們主總基本上他是我們這個有關這個預測CPR的一個主管機關基本上我們會參考主總的一個數據"},{"start":1120.822,"end":1146.205,"text":"能高那請問這個川普2.0關稅政策如果成真你認為對國內物價指數的可能影響是正面的還是負面的跟委員報告對於各個政策比如川普上任以後的相關政策他所採取的一些強度或實施的期間目前大家也都在關注那至於比如說能源價格的下降"},{"start":1146.687,"end":1163.473,"text":"以及食物的價格會不會再走高這個還要再看大眾物資當然對民眾來說他比較切身以及經常他要採購的譬如說外食的價格他是最有感的我想這個外食價格我想大家都覺得他事實上有在調漲部長"},{"start":1165.529,"end":1185.72,"text":"今晚未推動台灣個人投資儲蓄帳戶TISA就是投資帳戶這樣的政策今年上路因為沒有辦法爭取到財政部額外增加護稅的優惠所以彭主委表示政策轉個彎未來將採取"},{"start":1189.522,"end":1211.213,"text":"兩大的方式來推動一由業者提供國人投資的這些手續費優惠二整合既有的這些護稅優惠鼓勵個人先開TISA的這個帳戶那請問部長你認為像這樣的帳戶TISA的政策財政部有沒有義務來支持或配合"},{"start":1212.697,"end":1227.423,"text":"對於金管會他推動所謂的我們台式的TISA財政部當然是支持已經協助所以我們跟金管會也有多次的溝通對於我們現行有關的一些租稅優惠包括"},{"start":1228.863,"end":1248.071,"text":"資本利得免稅就大家知道那個證索稅我們目前是個人的證索稅是免納還有投資支息的投資支息就是股利的部分我們有二折一可以減稅以及在存款的部分的利息有27萬的一個特別扣除所以相關的現行的租稅優惠我們和其他國家"},{"start":1248.951,"end":1268.114,"text":"所採行的一些租稅優惠我們比較起來其實我們比他們更優惠所以我們認為說第一個對於現行有關的一個租稅優惠的措施要讓民眾知道那所以我們會提供相關的資訊以及做成一些比如說一些比較容易讓民眾可以了解就是說現行的租稅優惠然後能夠加入這樣的TISA的開戶這是我們現在跟金管會達成這樣的一個共識同時金管會就是認為說那如果這樣的話"},{"start":1276.676,"end":1298.129,"text":"那除了租稅優惠以外除了其他比如說在手續費的部分的優惠這他們認為可以做一個提供的那這個部分所以我們跟金管會事實上是密切聯繫跟溝通我們當然也樂見這個TISA在台灣能夠推動實施那對於租稅優惠的部分現行的租稅優惠我們會盡量去宣導跟說明讓民眾可以了解"},{"start":1298.922,"end":1320.627,"text":"那個軍管會表示財政部會配合主動協助計算TISA賬戶投資收益的稅戶那我請問部長這到底是不是軍管會吸引開戶政策的話術還是財政部真的會主動來協助參加這項政策的投資人的計算這個稅戶的收益"},{"start":1324.688,"end":1353.104,"text":"財政部其實對於民眾相關的一些需求事實上都有提供相當便利的一些方式也可以協助做計算這個部分我們跟金管會都是有非常密切的溝通跟共識的最後一點喔那個部長有媒體報導沒有稅務優惠的TISA政策不會成功因為由國際上推動個人儲蓄帳戶的成功經驗來看啦如日本NISA"},{"start":1354.985,"end":1380.498,"text":"這個NISA以及美國的IRA帳戶等國家都是為推動政策特別設立額外的稅務誘因並明確說明這個稅務優惠帶來的資產累積效應所以說可吸引民間投資那基於金管會推動的TISA的主要目的是希望增進民間投資"},{"start":1381.739,"end":1398.296,"text":"落實這個普惠國人並增進國人資產管理的人力那請問部長財政部會不會重新評估TISA政策給予特定這個租稅優惠以落實普惠金融的美意會不會"},{"start":1399.861,"end":1424.066,"text":"對於這個金管會要推動的TISA我們其實把現行台灣所實施的租稅優惠跟日本的NISA還有其他國際間的相關的一個儲蓄投資這個帳戶我們他們的提供的租稅優惠我們都做過比較其實台版的TISA是目前來說是跟國際比較是最優惠的這樣喔好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林德福委員"},{"start":1430.643,"end":1432.984,"text":"謝謝主席 各位先進我先提一個權宜問題今天我們要審土銀還有印刷廠的預算結果今天巡打馬上就處理"},{"start":1456.998,"end":1470.688,"text":"過去從來沒有這個慣例因為現在有七十幾個案子也都沒有跟委員協調到目前只有十幾個案子有協調所以我具體的建議今天只有詢問不要處理"},{"start":1472.689,"end":1489.358,"text":"然後呢 我建議我們的召委因為為什麼他要這樣子 召委很無奈很無奈 因為今天是最後一次他當召委了所以下個禮拜能不能夠跟另外一位召委 就會委員"},{"start":1491.039,"end":1509.435,"text":"跟他借一個小時的時間那是今天這樣子我們來處理我想這樣對委員比較尊重因為今天還有一整天的時間可以去讓行政部門跟我們委員還有討論否則七十幾個案子一個一個討論這個也不是個辦法萬一真的不行"},{"start":1510.496,"end":1528.857,"text":"那整個案子就送到朝委協商也不是不可以過去案例是來不及了來不及就往前送往前送就不要今天這樣子今天給人家感覺很倉促處理的品質很不好也不尊重立委好不好我就提這樣的一個缺乳問題"},{"start":1531.139,"end":1560.539,"text":"等下我們跟賴昭偉討論如果他同意下個禮拜借我禮拜一借我大概一個小時的時間那我們現在的這個相關的提案預算案只有七十一個案子那七十一個案子如果今天不處理我想這個土銀 煙酒公司印刷廠那你們可以趕快花時間到下個禮拜一比如說九點我們來審查這個預算的時候你們還有一天多的時間可以跟各個各位委員去做溝通說不定七十幾個案子溝通"},{"start":1561.359,"end":1577.264,"text":"完以後說不定剩下沒有多少案子說不定委員都可以有溝通的這個說是不是不一定簡略啊說不定是凍結啊或是給大家一點時間好了等一下如果賴委員同意等一下賴委員會過來如果他同意的話我們就下個禮拜一來講對 我就是說想快借一個小時時間給給我們那個陳委員啊 陳昭偉啊"},{"start":1584.986,"end":1599.577,"text":"等一下如果賴委員同意 下個禮拜給我一個小時的時間因為七十幾個案子 現在只有溝通了十一個案子那我們還是給相關單位一點時間繼續做溝通如果可以縮減的話 那到時候事實上下個禮拜也會很快的就審查完畢嘛好 謝謝好 請部長"},{"start":1610.263,"end":1632.014,"text":"委員好部長你好我還是關心才華法昨天賴總統講話了他說要用更大的民族他講的就是要提復義啦要提實現啦要提公統啦我請問你是不是確定才華法要提復義是不是"},{"start":1633.778,"end":1642.526,"text":"委員第一個目前來說12月20號三讀通過的裁劃法目前還沒有送出立法院還在行政院那對於修正的裁劃法"},{"start":1648.391,"end":1663.893,"text":"那我們和主總也都在盤一些對於這個中央施政的一些影響以及我們行政團隊會以什麼樣的合憲合法的一些程序來做一些救濟的措施也都在各種措施都在評估當中是這樣子的"},{"start":1664.514,"end":1685.136,"text":"那你們有哪些業務要抹給地方你們一直講說要錢給的第四期要給有沒有評估哪些事情給地方至於哪一些業務要做一些移轉因為支出的移轉跟業務的移轉是有相關聯的那是屬於各部會各部會的業務的部分什麼時候可以清出來"},{"start":1686.137,"end":1688.98,"text":"什麼時候會寄出來我想這個部分行政院會跟各部會去做討論然後看哪一些業務適合做移轉那因為財政部這個部分並沒有去做實際的你們財政部啊到現在為止啊擺爛的地方就是你們到現在都沒有版本啊"},{"start":1703.412,"end":1716.178,"text":"沒有辦法討論也跟委員說很多次的說明才劃法的修正他必須要經過充分的討論現在已經刪讀通過了現在已經刪讀通過了火車已經開到左營了你還在講說台北怎麼開啊桃園怎麼開啊已經開到左營了"},{"start":1731.645,"end":1754.8,"text":"所以我還是因為委員說財政部擺爛所以我才做這個說明但我也知道目前12月20號已經通過了財化法的修正三讀通過了喔12月20號三讀你不要再回覆說不能接受不能接受他已經通過了不能接受什麼"},{"start":1756.392,"end":1768.917,"text":"你怎麼去把他退班除了你公投把他退班我剛剛才跟委員報告就是說有關在這個合憲合法的行程程序上大家再來討論相關的因應措施那是哪些因應措施"},{"start":1770.009,"end":1790.041,"text":"目前都在評估當中那您剛剛也提到了比如說支出隨同業務的移轉的部分那當然涉及到各部會的一些計劃的業務的部分也都在現在我們看我們正在審114年的總預算是的 是的我們沒有耽誤你們喔"},{"start":1794.528,"end":1822.628,"text":"所以現在有學者 我看了一下 今天有學者點名了所以能不能大家各乾脆各退一步就是啊 因為現在已經省完預算啦你們也來不及啦乾脆115年開始實施新的法你們也不要囉嗦 也不要去提視線不要提復義 大家各退一步這樣的 有學者這樣的建議你們的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":1824.191,"end":1829.453,"text":"是的我們之前也很清楚的說明114年已經展開了各項的業務要往前走都要往前推展所以我們也希望我們大院能夠趕快審議完畢114年度的預算讓各項施政可以不要受到影響謝謝立法院能夠這樣幫我們一起審查這個預算那至於您提到就是說通過的這個採劃法"},{"start":1852.262,"end":1879.221,"text":"但是由於他現在的條文是這麼寫的就是說公佈後就生效嘛就施行了就公佈日施行那是不是要怎麼樣調整我覺得當然委員您提出了這樣的一個行政院報的就學者提出來我只是替你雞婆替你想一個解套方式大家這樣子否則的話火車一樣對撞這個沒完沒了到現在為止是沒完沒了的沒完沒了"},{"start":1882.113,"end":1894.121,"text":"你們不接受 你們現在不接受那怎麼辦咧 法律通過了你不能夠說法律通過的你不管他 不可以啊當然 機關必須依法行政是一個事實你再仔細想一下啦齁這些學者的意見啦多去整理啊想一想怎麼樣火車往前開啦其實還有一招嘛你們稅計勝利拿出來補"},{"start":1911.503,"end":1934.081,"text":"這個三千多億就有啦 為什麼一定不能拿出來呢 稅計剩餘啊稅計剩餘的部分 稅計剩餘的金額可能沒有那麼高照那天主計長的一個說法 稅計剩餘的金額是應該是有限的對 有限的 那至於今年 好啦 就這些了啦問你喔 那個燕酒公司 董事長一起來湯董事長是嗎 是 董事長 董事長"},{"start":1943.553,"end":1956.321,"text":"這個啊你們今年度啊營業有獲利都不達預期的目標差很多你們的員工啊績效跟年終獎金只有2.5個月部長仔細聽好 部長你們這裡面來講的話台電 中油它也業績也不行啊可是它一樣可以領4.4個月財政部你準備要幫他講話經濟部"},{"start":1973.673,"end":1983.802,"text":"莊園台電沒有到達預定的目標一樣領4.4個月可是財政部就沒有啊底下只有領2.5個月你要不要幫營酒公司簽簽話來 部長"},{"start":1987.457,"end":2003.326,"text":"謝謝委員對我們菸酒公司同仁的一個鼓勵那我想這個有關績效加上年終獎金怎麼計算都有一套的制度那我們認為就是說其實菸酒公司湯董事長來了以後他也非常的積極在做這個委員你不要講這些有的沒的你就跟我講你怎麼爭取的啊"},{"start":2007.248,"end":2030.445,"text":"因為一樣中油台電不達標但是記下獎金拿4.4個月研究公司不達標為什麼只能夠拿2.5個月你告訴我啊你怎麼辦啊部長啊台電才這麼講話啊我先這樣講台電跟中油基本它有一個公用事業性質在裡面它可能有一些比較多的一個政策性在裡面我相信是這樣子所以就是"},{"start":2031.266,"end":2043.973,"text":"台電中央就是政府關心的原則說是4號原則說是4號董事長講話 董事長講話爭取一下 給你機會爭取跟委員報告我們明年還是會積極努力的替員工來爭取達標4.4個月這個是我來的目標如果達不到呢 你要不要下台"},{"start":2056.68,"end":2083.126,"text":"我們會盡全力來努力我們會盡全力來努力你應該有氣魄喔 年輕人有氣魄是打不到我下台來喔 告訴你 劉一年 劉一長 看好啊今天一九公司為什麼這麼辛苦有很重要的兩道原因第一個 賴清德總統當台南市長的時候他設立了捷太日菸台南廠"},{"start":2084.762,"end":2112.742,"text":"結果市佔率42.5% 國產業只有23%這是很重的原因日本人還越來啊 日本大哥哥來清德官立發戰略 給人家設公司準備打我們的研究公司第二個 海尼根 你們的啤酒海尼根今年4月在屏東 是要變成東北亞的公戶中心"},{"start":2114.198,"end":2122.786,"text":"這兩個一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年一年"},{"start":2141.438,"end":2159.583,"text":"各位我們報告事實上這個捷太跟這個海尼根這自由化競爭本來就存在這個市場那我來單位四個多月我們的團隊都相當的優秀所以我們對於明年超過2.5個月我們還是保持很高的信心"},{"start":2160.103,"end":2177.28,"text":"怎麼樣增加啊 你現在都節節敗退啊業績會縮啊 業績越來越糟啊大陸市場也不可以啊大陸你現在進不去啊 兩岸關係這麼不好以前可以賣大陸 啤酒可以賣大陸現在大陸也進不去你現在開多了什麼市場 你告訴我順便給你 催牛沒關係給你催你準備怎麼打開市場"},{"start":2183.843,"end":2191.735,"text":"各位我們報告因為剛剛我提的我們的員工都相當優秀所以你講這個聽不懂你能不能講說我開拓美國市場可以嗎"},{"start":2194.455,"end":2222.217,"text":"我們確實我們國外的市場明年會有新的訂單也都在洽在哪裡在哪裡在哪裡因為現在還在保密階段可能不方便隨便亂講市場在哪裡天邊彩虹根本就是沒有看到你們的陰影所以台灣煙酒公司業績節節敗退這才是很悲哀的而且部長又不幫你們講話說因為我有政策目"},{"start":2222.877,"end":2230.548,"text":"我有政策的目標 中有台電的政策目標都可以要領事領事你們就領不到公報要找你我跟你講好 謝謝委員謝謝賴司法委員 接著我們請郭國文委員"},{"start":2253.734,"end":2255.697,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長,待會再請湯董上來莊部長,湯董請待命"},{"start":2263.922,"end":2291.949,"text":"市委好部長好部長財務法通過財務法當中呢有一條條文原來條文說第三十三條各上級政府對適應特別需要對財力較優之下級政府可以取得這個協助金接下來如果三七五三下放之後很多下級政府的這個財力就會越來越弱了特別是台北市政府這個三十三條以前有沒有動用過將來有沒有可能動用部長"},{"start":2295.107,"end":2323.065,"text":"這個現在來說我們第一個財化法的裡面的中央統籌分配稅款有一定的公式那至於另外主總那邊有一個一般性的補助款這個我都知道了不要浪費我的時間啦我只是問你這個問題啦像TPAS還有租金補貼的部分啦對啊能不能交給地方負擔或者你拿一些來來幫我協助有沒有可能目前沒有33條我們補貼還沒用必要的時候你可以動用啊不是嗎必要的時候可以動用"},{"start":2324.719,"end":2350.388,"text":"對不對 特別需要就是必要的時候啊可以不可以能不能考量這個部分還是要跟組總那邊要做討論要跟組計總處組總那邊喔 當然啊這就要跟組總那邊你們財主單位要去思考這個問題啊財發法這一條可以讓他們動用 但不排除嘛對不對是 一定要跟組總那邊要討論因為是資源的配置 必要的時候不排除嘛可是依法行政嘛 不是嗎"},{"start":2351.889,"end":2377.64,"text":"然後另外一個部分有關小店家的部分就營業稅過往營業稅的課徵成本都是中央在負擔嘛對不對沒有錯沒有錯嘛而且不但是中央負擔還夠人玩嘛尤其是針對小店家的部分問題最大小店家有兩個門檻一個是起徵點這次你們有調整調整了25%但是呢免營業稅統一發票的部分20萬依然是20萬"},{"start":2379.221,"end":2396.073,"text":"好幾十年來都沒有變這本席給你停過好幾次了趁這次財法法的時候營業稅已經下放給地方百分之百你又不是你在用而且基本上你又計課徵成本又在你身上中央政府又顧人願這一條我建議你好好思考一下因為為什麼"},{"start":2397.194,"end":2414.37,"text":"從你這次來算的話你的稅差損挑25%大概10億只佔了所有營業稅6700億當中的0.16而已你把起徵點兩項都提高到20萬這是本席對你的要求這樣子也不過是百分之0.35這樣的情況底下稅差損的不過是23億那53萬家 53萬家對啊就是受惠的對象很多"},{"start":2423.001,"end":2437.476,"text":"部長 而且你們當初只有算CPIO你如果算基本工資的部分啊是高達80%欸 這十幾年來欸你們當初沒有算到基本工資啊所以我跟韓布朗登跟你算了一下齁你會不會檢證立民齁"},{"start":2438.837,"end":2460.522,"text":"最後117年的74期接下來44%這種情況底下齁你省下了三分之一的能力去抓這些小的稅損的不過是23億而已你不如節省這31億抓那些大戶也就是抓大放小啦好不好建議我們會納入研議是好好思考一下因為這個東西齁老實講還有包括這個開發票基準點"},{"start":2466.739,"end":2487.619,"text":"從民國75年到現在38年都沒有調整我做這個基準上來換算這個CPI已經漲了51.8%20起碼可以調到30老實講這稅差準都非常有限啊可是積增成本非常之高啊"},{"start":2489.589,"end":2499.253,"text":"部長回去思考一下好不好對於委任建議我們一定納入原意好那我待會再做一個提案好了接下來請湯董來時間暫停一下請湯董事長"},{"start":2507.059,"end":2531.739,"text":"委員長時間有限啦,我就跟你講,整個市佔率下滑其實不單純是海尼根啦,還有中國啤酒的關係啦不過我們本身自己要檢討啦也就是說呢,你有一些商品很好,通路卻很少,譬如講台啤有18天還有你研發很多的酒類,但是酒類又過多,好的沒有推出去那個呢,充斥在市場上,分不出哪一種是好是壞"},{"start":2532.64,"end":2548.446,"text":"你們最近呢增加了所謂的清酒看起來產品很好但是通路又很少還有包括你們的歐馬定價的這種味精又太多產品風評都不錯你不能趁你來的時候我不是鼓勵喝酒但是酒避免不良"},{"start":2549.326,"end":2567.444,"text":"你們現在的技術提升如此之快可是行銷方式如此之混亂啊唐總你來自行銷高手啊你有沒有一個把握把現在的啤酒Whisky還有包括清酒現在比較強項的這三項當中做一個統一性的行銷整合啊"},{"start":2568.683,"end":2597.274,"text":"跟我們報告我想過去的菸酒公司是以管理品牌為主我想我來的目的是以行銷為主所以接下來不論是在菸品酒品跟啤酒我想我們未來所有的新產品的包裝跟行銷未來會比過去更精準你知道多誇張嗎以前歐馬出來的時候連財政部長都不知道歐馬這個威士忌你知道嗎現在部長喝很多現在喝很多嗎對現在喝很多真的喔部長這麼喝我都曉得"},{"start":2598.87,"end":2620.121,"text":"要繳外交不能送歐嘛不是送民間的那個品牌你知道嗎這才是國酒你要有這種自信請日本人喝清酒要拿我們的清酒很多檯面上外交場合都看不到國酒的痕跡啊這個我提醒你另外最主要原因是中國啤酒來得實在太多了而且中國啤酒基本上呢你有沒有贊成啊來進來課徵那反請銷稅啊"},{"start":2624.168,"end":2634.934,"text":"跟委員報告喔 首先先感謝委員 落差一千兩百倍喔 我都幫你整理好了喔對 因為中國啤酒 台北金門高粱連主席金門高粱也被禁喔"},{"start":2637.667,"end":2663.054,"text":"暫停進口名單沒有我們已經通過了去年那就主席的特權了你看啤酒就沒有差那麼多政治關係有差共委員報告當然我們希望這個所有的資料我們都已經提交了當然我們希望說這個上級長官可以用比較快的時間讓這個傾銷稅可以成立那不是對菸酒公司對整個本土的釀酒行業都會有很大的"},{"start":2663.434,"end":2691.061,"text":"對 沒有錯 這個真的差太多了而且部長你有沒有支持這進行反請銷稅因為到底割反請銷稅還是割平衡稅比較好你的態度是怎麼樣 部長跟委員報告目前來說剛剛湯董講我們會用釀酒商協會的名義對於提出申請我知道他們今天正式提出了我們這邊受理以後會盡快的進行處理他們今天會正式提出所以請你盡可能行政協助來協助這些廠商好不好 部長"},{"start":2692.101,"end":2709.595,"text":"我再問你一下通路總是要自己想辦法嘛我去日本的球場在看比賽或今年十二強的時候都有看到很多啤酒妹很奇怪我們直播到現在啊夯不啷噹已經三十好幾年了從來沒有看過啤酒妹沒有賣台灣啤酒為什麼"},{"start":2712.157,"end":2739.328,"text":"跟委員報告二月三月的台灣的經典賽你就會看得到我們現在過兩個月我們台灣有一個經典賽你現在的這個畫面的這個杯子你就會看得到台北整個球場真的嗎所有球場都有我們已經進行了經典賽先開始啦經典賽先開始我們有派了八組的人員都是精挑細選過的就是現場就有生啤酒可以喝了"},{"start":2739.568,"end":2764.907,"text":"生平18天2月嘛 等待你的成績這個就是打消通路的一種方式所有的球隊都談好了嗎中職所有球隊都有目前是跟台鋼在談跟台鋼 其他也要講啊因為其他的競品都有在跟其他的球隊談我們沒有辦法一個品牌跟所有的球隊很早蔡奇他們幫忙好了啦"},{"start":2766.649,"end":2783.517,"text":"另外最後提醒你一點,本期的選區當中,散化啤酒廠的增建啤酒公園,三年撥3483萬後來我看了一下,你這一個在南投央風華賽線八年編了多少?13.6億啊!差幾倍啊?差三十幾倍"},{"start":2792.489,"end":2802.859,"text":"為什麼差那麼多所有你的豐華在線都做在中部南部你就撥了三千多皮球這個真的是重中輕軟跟委員報告他這個3483萬是在兩年前就編列了"},{"start":2809.305,"end":2834.748,"text":"那我們在上個月跟善化有一個牛肉姐其實做的反應相當成功所以未來我想除了編列預算以外總公司也會投入更多的行銷預算那是一個部分牛肉姐你辦得不錯我理解但是我希望這個豐華在線的這個經費相關的部分是不是part 2再增加一下好不好好 謝謝委員好 謝謝湯董 謝謝部長謝謝郭國文委員接著我們請賴慧媛委員"},{"start":2842.619,"end":2846.245,"text":"謝謝主席 那個有請財政部那個財政部部長 莊部長"},{"start":2855.209,"end":2876.783,"text":"今天跟您討論有關有償PPP的進度上個月行政院已經宣布造源投資國家的發展方向三大策略的主軸裡頭特別有提到排序在第一就是創新、出産、提"},{"start":2877.523,"end":2906.042,"text":"那個推進的一個機制那就是我今天要跟你提到的這個有償PVP這個當然是希望就是說加強把民間的這個資金引進來到那個公件裡頭那事實上這個政策跟財政部有相當大的一個關係那我也知道就是說部長你在這個2022年12月修正的一個部分條文這個促參法裡頭叫做那個促參2.0"},{"start":2909.184,"end":2926.449,"text":"所以就是重點之一就是說新增的第九條之一政府有常提到公共的一個服務我們就叫它有常PPP那今天要跟部長討論的就是說財政部有沒有新的法制在進行中"},{"start":2928.285,"end":2957.054,"text":"謝謝委員對於初參2.0在修法通過以後所有的相關的法制作業基本上財政部都已經完備了就是執法規都完備了那至於有償取得公共服務就是有償PPP的部分那因為法條裡面規定必須有急迫性、必要性以及等等正確性等等而且民間經營根據效益這種情況下我們也開始做了相關政策性的評估那目前包含只有評估而已嗎你有沒有有亮點的專案"},{"start":2957.874,"end":2972.15,"text":"第一個就是政策評估完成表示這幾類的公共建設可以去走有償PVP這個要先建置建置完以後目的事業主管機關就可以用這樣的一個種類可以那現在已經有在推動了推動那就是"},{"start":2972.731,"end":2987.156,"text":"就是不是只有條文上的有案子在推動最有亮點的案子你認為最滿意的案子是哪個我跟委員報告最有亮點的就是比如說污水下水道的處理"},{"start":2988.256,"end":3010.872,"text":"可是這個污水下水道的一個處理已經推了好幾年了已經推了好幾年應該要更擴大我們認為可以更擴大譬如說污水下水道處理以後它可以進入水廠不是只有做污水下水道的進化接下來水還可以進一步做成為再生水所以你說再生水廠再生水廠也可以用就是儲藏那個有儲藏的PVP來把這個錢引進來然後做這麼大的一個水廠"},{"start":3015.035,"end":3038.26,"text":"讓水資源不要被浪費掉那另外也跟委員報告就是您剛剛的一個創新的一個出餐機制將來財政部會在2014今年就會成立一個出餐專案辦公室我們接受各個目的各個機關他要推動重大的公建計畫的話要先送到專案辦公室來評估如果適合做出餐就以出餐的模式來做這個速度會更快會速度會更快讓各機關炒購"},{"start":3039.64,"end":3057.905,"text":"就是說民間的這些遊資還是說有一些比較大的一個公設那就是公共的一個建設可以引進更多的一個資金進來嗎引進更多的民間資金那另外同時也可以接受民間主動提案他認為說他認為這個公建民間有興趣來做有意願做他也可以主動提案"},{"start":3058.905,"end":3086.047,"text":"那再跟你探討就是租賃公司的款貸這個穿透式的一個管理其實我們知道就是說12月中旬就是中租他發布了一個重大的信息他的董事會已經跟兆豐銀行簽訂了65億的一個連貸案那當然就是說銀行可以就是確保就是貸款不會流向汽車貸款還是先買後戶跟不動產的一個融資那在這裡我想請問部長就是說"},{"start":3087.228,"end":3113.167,"text":"有沒有辦法就是如何讓經檢來確保銀行沒有違規才能正正的避免掉就是銀行繞了繞道把這些錢借給租賃公司借給房地產那有沒有辦法是用信託基金就是說我們這些錢放到信託基金每一筆錢就是說租賃公司他要用的時候我們都可以清清楚楚看得到他是不是守法合法嗎"},{"start":3115.375,"end":3140.677,"text":"謝謝委員我想這個有關租賃公司的這個貸放的部分要非常注意也就是大家都很關注那金管會在一一三年的十二月的時候他已經提出了四道防線第一個對各銀行融資給融資租賃業的話第一個要追蹤資金的流向第二個融資的用途如果是不動產的話他也要遵守央行對於不動產貸款的一些規定而且要記錄這個總量管制"},{"start":3143.239,"end":3158.725,"text":"所以就是說你跟金管會其實你是有研擬出一套的一個方式你們兩兆有研擬出一套的方式就是絕對可以去管制這些錢這些錢可以真正的落實就是說不會讓資源公司挪去他用嗎"},{"start":3159.785,"end":3177.993,"text":"對我想這個金管會他做出了防線那各機關各個公股銀行都必須要遵守各銀行不管是公股或是民營都要遵守那財政部基於公股銀行的股權管理也會要求我們的公股銀行一定要遵守金管會的規定以及央行的規定要遵守這樣的一個規範"},{"start":3179.908,"end":3195.109,"text":"我們也會跟金管會合作如果這個央行第七波的一個信用管制再加上金管會祭出的金融檢查使得國家銀行的一個房貸開始是"},{"start":3195.469,"end":3199.051,"text":"所以我現在要請教你國土署署長他說不會再延長那事實上新青安在明年7月就截止的那財政部你的看法是會不會延長"},{"start":3224.034,"end":3242.168,"text":"所以說這個到明年七月就截止了喔對 明年的我們好像是七月底 對部長會不會再延長這個新清安的政策還是說如果不延長的話是不是有新的清安政策會再持續推呢"},{"start":3243.981,"end":3269.398,"text":"新清安我想做出來以後讓一些需要購買次住房屋用的青年朋友們他可以買到到底會不會延長新清安會不會延長我想這個部分要到那個明年的時候我們再來做一些檢討要到明年的七八月在整個結束以後再做檢討那顯然就是不會延長可能會在結束之前就可以先做檢討結束之前就是等於是說他的前三個月"},{"start":3273.1,"end":3278.783,"text":"可以 前三個月可以研討我們可以看當時的一些狀況來做討論好 謝謝部長那接著我請我們土地銀行董事長"},{"start":3290.799,"end":3308.798,"text":"2024年上半年土銀的換款表現不佳就是你錢借出去的不多尤其我們用公股銀行對中小企業的換款顏額就是說在去年的9月跟10月來做一個比較你借出去的錢是最少的"},{"start":3309.739,"end":3324.017,"text":"在九月份你借出去276億這個非常少啊那是因為土銀就是在這個整個就是業績的一個換款上頭你就是緊縮還是說你面臨到什麼樣的一個困境"},{"start":3325.919,"end":3342.265,"text":"你不借錢給大家 為什麼各位原報告一下是因為我們土地銀行在113年上半年以後是因為我們配合的政務政策我們對土建農的部分我們開始的進行適度的管控"},{"start":3343.605,"end":3358.78,"text":"所以你在未來你的業績會越來越差但是我們下半年的話我們是由清安貸款來補足我們清安貸款目前到現在來做1300多億也就是說今年光是一年增加清安貸款就增加了1000億"},{"start":3359.901,"end":3387.542,"text":"可是你那個大額的都放掉啦你這個新青安是這個小眾啊因為新青安是一個政策性的放款土地銀行是要補助貸款人那土建融雖然是利潤比較好但是適度的調節這個結構對銀行來講也比較有利所以我們其實是我們土建融的貸款減少了大概兩百多億青安增加了大概一千億"},{"start":3388.683,"end":3404.882,"text":"好 我想就是我的時間有限啦私底下再跟那個圖雲就是討論一下就是近期的一個這個換款的一個比例那個主席最後讓我最後一分鐘煙酒公司那個湯董事長湯董事長"},{"start":3405.743,"end":3434.355,"text":"我想那個湯董事長是行銷的一個專才當然剛才郭國文委員有在講到通路是最重要的那這裡頭那個因為冬天吃薑母鴨、麻油雞還有就是說羊肉爐這個是一個最鼎盛的那個季節我特別請教一下那個董事長所有在今年這一季冬季的時候這幾種米酒裡頭哪一種銷路是最好的"},{"start":3436.144,"end":3457.146,"text":"跟委員報告效率最好的還是我們600ML的紅標料理米酒這個27塊的這個是不是 對好那我們知道說你這一個米酒已經好幾年都不漲價了那誰不准你漲價財政部長他認為說你要體恤體恤這個整個民生上的一個需求那你自行吸收了多少錢"},{"start":3458.624,"end":3485.972,"text":"跟我們報告目前米酒的部分因為配合政府政策民生產品照顧國人所以今年跟明年都沒有漲價的計畫那我們現在每一瓶我們現在一年紅標料理米酒大概要損失大概5億左右當然我們也希望說是不是可以列為不利因素那我們目前的米酒是由我們各個酒品去分攤這個損失"},{"start":3487.632,"end":3506.468,"text":"所以董事長你評估還可以在幾年不漲你還可以支撐下去就是說你的紅標米酒你一樣就是不漲可以支撐個幾年其實是支撐不住啦但是我們就是想辦法還是繼續賺錢來補貼這個產品啦好 謝謝也謝謝主席謝謝賴慧慧接著我們請王宏威委員"},{"start":3516.001,"end":3541.596,"text":"我們我再宣告一下剛剛已經跟賴委員達成協調就是預算審查的部分本來今天的部分就改成下個禮拜一早上應該是在賴委員這個宣讀完畢後大概可能在9點多9點半前後謝謝對下禮拜一審查預算今天我們宣達完畢後我們今天會議就結束好的謝謝主席我先請我們的財政部長有請莊部長"},{"start":3552.191,"end":3570.943,"text":"昨天賴總統他的元旦公告裡面特別提到才化法賴總統的說法是有點奇怪他說希望各政黨的版本大家來做協調但是問題是我們在立法院裡面只有國民黨團有版本"},{"start":3571.923,"end":3593.469,"text":"民眾黨團有版本而通過的版本呢就是包含我們國民黨團跟民眾黨團大家有共識的版本可是剩下來的那個民進黨黨團根本沒有版本所以我不大曉得賴總統啊這個說法到底是什麼意思因為政黨版本我們都協調好了但是"},{"start":3594.449,"end":3615.425,"text":"我不曉得他是不是要做一些暗示啊所以我想請問一下部長到目前為止你有沒有接獲任何來自上級長官的指示就是我們財政部行政院開始要研議我們行政院或者財政部的版本目前有沒有"},{"start":3616.492,"end":3633.932,"text":"跟委員報告其實財政部在對於財化法這個部分其實您也知道在去年我們一整年都在努力的在做討論那後來因為在11月的時候我們財委會這邊就通過送出來所以你們現在有版本嗎當時是基於尊重"},{"start":3634.932,"end":3645.196,"text":"財委會所以我們就沒有繼續講其實我們原來是先就指標討論那指標除了三個沒有共識之外但有共識那接下來是要他對指標的權重還有調整係數要進行討論後來因為財委會所以部長我只是問我們現在有在研商我們財政部版本對不對之前"},{"start":3654.019,"end":3681.654,"text":"我想現在目前的一個階段當然後續各種的一些相關的行政救濟措施都是可以都在評估上我現在要問你現在有沒有任何指示財政部未來會提版本有沒有這個部分我們財政部其實我已經說我剛剛的一個部分我們其實可以也可以看到現在立法院三讀通過的版本裡面其實我們就在討論這個相關的一個後面的行政救濟措施都是有"},{"start":3682.074,"end":3689.018,"text":"所以看起來你們只是想提行政救濟但是到目前為止根本沒有版本所以我才講昨天賴總統他在講什麼聽不懂我想說行政救濟是各種措施裡面另外因為我時間關係我想請問一下我們從今天開始"},{"start":3705.367,"end":3720.462,"text":"那麼我們的當沖降稅延三年繼續實施根據在去年金管會所提出來的也就是如果續行採行當沖降稅一年未來三年的"},{"start":3722.495,"end":3738.415,"text":"這個稅收差異可以高達949億將近1000億也就是說實施當沖降稅未來三年降三年稅收增加千億元這是金管會提出來這不是我在算的"},{"start":3739.076,"end":3760.933,"text":"所以我要特別講我們政府在這段時間動不動就一直喊窮沒有錢但是我們都知道一方面我們這三年稅收超徵很多未來降稅之後就是當中繼續降稅未來三年就可以增加一千億所以一年大概是三百億左右"},{"start":3761.852,"end":3785.055,"text":"所以這300億其實可以做很多很多的事情在這邊所以我要特別的去提醒就是我們的政府不要再一直對外喊窮每一次我們提出一些政策就告訴你政府沒有錢什麼都沒有錢可是你邊這個特別預算的時候就可以把錢伸出來所以我要特別講"},{"start":3786.656,"end":3796.561,"text":"當沖降稅延三年稅收多增千億元可以做很多事情好時間暫停一下我請一下我們台酒公司的董事長請湯董事長"},{"start":3806.391,"end":3835.449,"text":"好 董事长好刚才我们注意到赖世宝委员特别帮我们台酒公司的员工来请命但是我们现在所面临的确实台酒在整个的市场竞争之下那么这个老招牌确实越来越失色至少比如说在市占率在2022年就已经降到五成以下了酒类的新品市场推出的金额也降低很多好 来看下一页"},{"start":3836.309,"end":3861.26,"text":"更重要的是稅後的淨利事實上跟五年前是腰斬然後EPS也是連年的下滑所以我想請教我們新任不久的董事長面對這樣子的一個就是台酒經營上出現了一些困境請問您的對策是什麼"},{"start":3864.325,"end":3893.317,"text":"各位委員報告我們確實連續五年營收跟品牌力都下滑那我想最主要的原因過去的菸酒公司是以生產為主他不是以行銷為導向所以我想2025年我們不但會止滑而且我們的業績也一定會成長那我們針對於菸跟酒類佔我們90%的營收我們已經做了很多相關未來行銷上的配套"},{"start":3894.195,"end":3917.462,"text":"所以你在這邊承諾2025年我們的營收一定會增加我們的獲利也一定會增加嗎是你在這邊承諾這次到時候是可以檢驗因為呢時間有限我也拜託就是也跟主席報告那請我們台酒公司針對新的一年新的一年你的一個經營計畫怎麼樣"},{"start":3919.423,"end":3936.907,"text":"去讓這個銀收下滑能夠止滑怎麼樣獲利增加可不可以提出一個比較具體的一個書面性的報告然後提供給我們委員會好嗎好謝謝好謝謝王烘薇委員接著我們請李坤城委員我們開放會場用餐我們中間不休息了巡檔完畢就結束會議"},{"start":3951.604,"end":3968.102,"text":"謝謝主席主席我先提一個權宜問題就是說我們在12月20號立法院已經三讀通過了財化法的修正案但是今天已經是1月2號了我想請問一下主席把財化法送出去了嗎"},{"start":3970.229,"end":3983.936,"text":"陳文華已經在議事處了本期會提出說是延緩送過去的原因是因為那時候12月23號行政院的發言人說如果這樣子會造成114年"},{"start":3986.317,"end":4002.191,"text":"現在2025年的預算恐怕要重編所以我們是善意的說希望因為地方議會已經都審了差不多了嘛各個縣都審差不多然後我們在立法院這個中央的部分我們也大家都審差不多那所以我們過這個"},{"start":4005.955,"end":4011.803,"text":"2024過完2025再送過去這樣對這個他們今年來編明年2026預算從3月開始編的時候這樣會比較順利那主席請問一下這個當初你就是你的延緩送到這個送出去沒有請總統府延緩公告"},{"start":4022.438,"end":4044.523,"text":"不是 你根本還沒有送出去還怎麼延緩公告他的公告時間是10天是憲法規定我的意思是說當初你用的理由就是說這個你認為說預算會重編到卡在年底年初那你現在這個你也排了一個專案報告了包含這個財政部跟主計處都有來報告過他們也說過這個預算不會再重編了嘛那你這一個財務法要不要送出去"},{"start":4045.343,"end":4073.245,"text":"對 那所以這個東西應該這個條件如果已經 上個禮拜也都講完了啊 上個禮拜你都問過了嘛對 上個禮拜也報告完了我明確承認就是總預算不會重編啊對對對 所以就是其他的各個部會包括內政部啊 什麼各個部會就不應該再繼續造謠說這個預算會有什麼參考 會有改變吧這是兩回事 政黨的攻防都有但是按照慣例也讓你問清楚了啊就是說你總預算不會重編 那你就要送出去啊沒關係 沒關係"},{"start":4075.115,"end":4097.712,"text":"這是我的質詢時間啊 你剛剛已經問完了啊你剛剛問完了 現在是我的質詢時間 觀眾可以發言啊我現在就問張偉啊那我們現在既然這個已經審過了就是已經包括這個 就是12月這個已經過了我們就原來發的那個文 我們已經跟這個就是立法院那邊議事處說了嘛那議事處就應該會照這個程序去進行的"},{"start":4098.533,"end":4121.505,"text":"你沒有解凍的話他們不敢送啊解凍我沒有凍結啊我只是請他延緩那好那我問你那現在上禮拜這個專案報告專案報告也排了專案報告也排了那你到底要不要送就是這個問題啊好各位委員尊重我的發言我現在問趙偉好不好你是怕陳毓正沒辦法回答我的問題嗎不會不會奇怪這是權宜問題反正就可以問啊"},{"start":4124.724,"end":4145.365,"text":"也不要再心虛了主席說如果已經財務法財務法已經都講完了那就應該要送出去預算也承諾了不會再重編了那是不是應該要送出去預算也既然不會重編其他各個部會包括內政部或其他相關部會就不要再重複的說這個不是由你來決定的因為你當初"},{"start":4147.987,"end":4148.728,"text":"這個禮拜會不會送出去?"},{"start":4168.235,"end":4187.862,"text":"東西已經送到議事處會不會送出去就是議事處那邊因為上面是你要求的是你陳一貞要求這個議事處不要送出去的那現在已經釐清清楚楚那我就問你說那是不是等一下我看一下大家的討論結果沒什麼討論結果這個就是你在"},{"start":4188.442,"end":4215.455,"text":"阻撓不送出去沒有阻撓啦沒有阻撓啦先已經確定了先已經確定就是不會再重編了嘛那不會再重編了那你預算要不要送出去咧不會阻撓不會阻撓這個有意識潛力可循啦這個沒有意識潛力啦沒有意識潛力啦好你不知道我等一下傳相關的資訊給你參考沒有不是現在就是說意識潛力我可以提供給我們委員會參考沒關係是說總預算有可能重編但是專案報告也都講過了"},{"start":4216.435,"end":4239.664,"text":"總預算也不會重編了那你這禮拜要不要送出去那就看其他各個部位是不是一樣繼續這樣有在造謠嘛說什麼重編啊這我就說這是兩回事嘛這個沒有說什麼繼續造謠然後呢你就不送出去這個是你當初你不送出去的原因在這裡嘛你要針對這個原因嘛這個原因已經消滅了啊那你就一定要送出去啊所以我是希望"},{"start":4240.917,"end":4258.717,"text":"過完年就是過這個2024這個年就今年這個過了啊是 所以我是覺得是應該要送出去要送出去了嘛我沒有否認要送出去我只是希望讓這個預算編轉比較方便那這個禮拜五一年三月開始比較方便這個禮拜五可不可以送出去我不能去幫醫事處押時間啦其實齁這個是屬於這個我們院會的事情啦不是啦"},{"start":4262.521,"end":4280.502,"text":"這就卡在你這邊啊我不能要求議事處什麼時候一定要做什麼事情你不用拜託我啦 我會照程序進行已經講清楚了 其實就應該要送出去了不應該再卡了啊我會照程序進行 不用擔心就當然要擔心啊不用擔心啦 不用擔心啦"},{"start":4280.762,"end":4303.974,"text":"所以這個禮拜能不能送出去這個禮拜能不能送出去我等一下要跟議事處請教一下這個程序我也得問他不要再玩這個文字遊戲是你叫議事處不要送出去的那你說你還要再跟議事處討論一下他的程序譬如說預算審完以後就像我們預算編種完以後很多議事的人還要整理相關的資料啊各方面要給他們時間啊20號啊20號實在是通過了你們當初這麼急"},{"start":4307.636,"end":4333.398,"text":"那是因為23日那結果呢20號已經通過了啊到現在已經1月2號了還不送那個是因為23號行政院的發言說要重編那我剛才說已經說明完了也不會啊也沒有要重編啦那是不是該送後面去了你可以質詢啦不過我先講一下我沒有看到總統府總統也說了他說朝野應該做下來針對這個才化法這是兩回事好好的來討論這都是一件事情才化法這是兩回事"},{"start":4335.14,"end":4346.511,"text":"我們審完了就想要送出去我有尊重因為後面還有別的委員我們讓你先執行完畢再繼續留下來談沒有問題當這個問題已經結束了沒有總編從沒問題的時候主席你應該要送出去好不好你留下來我們繼續討論我留下來"},{"start":4353.698,"end":4376.286,"text":"這不是私下能夠解決的事情啊我們在問一個制度啊這個不是今天的權宜問題因為今天不是討論這個主題今天的會議主要是討論今天的討論是這個土地銀行你剛剛也講了嘛你剛剛也講了就是應該要送出去的嘛對不對好我們等一下你留下我們繼續討論你要諮詢哪一位這個不是私下去解決的事情啊"},{"start":4378.527,"end":4400.925,"text":"這個不是介於我們兩個之間的討論 這個不是啊這是一個制度啊我們也不要佔用這個委員會的時間但是如果 我們也不要佔用後面委員會因為還在等待的時間但是如果願意我們大家質詢完畢 我們可以留下來繼續討論也可以在會議裡頭繼續討論要當眾講清楚 我的意思其實我的意思很簡單沒有總預算從變這些事情是不是就要送出去啊那周委你要回答我啊"},{"start":4402.23,"end":4430.527,"text":"李坤城委員 這個是 今天的會議的主題並不是這個 但是你要討論這個我也不會排斥 因為這個也不算是直球對決嘛 你不是說直球對決啦 我的問題也不是這個也不是權宜問題 也不是秩序問題齁 那所以這是 這是制度問題制度問題可以留下來 等一下我們在會議裡頭去討論好 那我問你啊 那我們尊重一下其他的委員好不好是不是該送出去了是不是應該送出去了 等一下我們慢慢可以繼續討論因為我還有一長一長段的話要講 但是我不想耽誤其他委員的時間不要用這一個"},{"start":4431.147,"end":4459.806,"text":"等下可以留下來這個卡住好像說這個耍一些時間差然後要擋住這個釋憲或是複議啊等等之類的你現在按照程序來走啦對 按照程序也沒有釋憲的問題啊因為憲法如果法律沒有生效就沒有釋憲的問題啊等你送出去就可以了啊這個整個法律問題等下我詳細跟您說明那我們是不是你要先請哪一位首長來備詢呢"},{"start":4461.227,"end":4461.348,"text":"請這個財政部部長請莊部長"},{"start":4472.05,"end":4492.503,"text":"蘇發部也講得很清楚從今年元旦開始網路廣告平台如果沒有落實實名制就要開罰之前也講過好多次了我先要求我們財政部所屬的機關機構還有飯工股銀行不要再下廣告給沒有實名制的網路平台了"},{"start":4494.437,"end":4516.229,"text":"去年齁 過了就算了 因為你們給我們的資料齁 到去年的這個十月底為止齁你們預算大概都執行了大概九成以上那從今年開始 這個預算過了之後可不可以要求財政部 自己所屬的機關機構 飯工股 銀行這個不要再下廣告給沒有這個實名制的這個平台包含一些什麼網紅啊 直播等等之類的"},{"start":4518.549,"end":4542.45,"text":"謝謝委員我想對於沒有實名制的平台跟網紅等等財政部跟所屬機關還有公股金融事業都不會再下廣告確定對然後另外菸酒公司這個部分因為它在銷售上的一些對象以及跟其他業者的一些競爭情形那他們有一些考量是不是讓董事長來做說明請董事長來做一個說明因為"},{"start":4544.606,"end":4560.486,"text":"這個台灣英九公司這實際上在去年編了這個3748萬來做這個行銷那當然也有含這個非實名制的那現在已經確定就是說你這個非實名制的如果這個沒有實名制要開罰"},{"start":4562.168,"end":4576.133,"text":"那我們打仗從我們自己先開始做起那是不是能夠承諾就是說這個從今年度開始如果是這個非實名制的這個網路的平台你們不要再下廣告下廣告的這一個平台還有很多啊去往實名制的"},{"start":4578.348,"end":4599.19,"text":"跟我們報告 事實上菸酒公司大部分的廣告還是在傳統的電視跟實體通路我剛看了一下我們去年在這個LINE Google跟FB其實我們下的廣告才一千多萬所以我想我們未來你們給我的數據啊就是網路廣告的預算有3748萬"},{"start":4601.718,"end":4622.12,"text":"是 最主要是這個三個比較大的平台啦我們下的廣告哪三個LINE FB跟GOOGLEFACEBOOK跟GOOGLE那也要實名制啊 他們應該是有實名制的啦對 所以我們明年也會要求我們所有的廣告的投放商如果沒有實名制的話我們盡量會去避免"},{"start":4623.41,"end":4645.943,"text":"就不應該投放啦,什麼叫應該盡量去避免,就不應該投放啦,打仗就是要從我們開始做起啊所以說如果沒有實名制的話,就不要去投放廣告,應該是這樣才對啊,對不對是不是?是對啊,因為現在是,等一下本來是要實名的預算啊,對不對你們今年度變了多少預算?114年的,在這個網路行銷部分"},{"start":4649.611,"end":4667.72,"text":"我們的總預算應該是15.3億15億多網路行銷啦好沒關係就是一個原則這個如果沒有這個實名制的廣告不要再下好不好好再請教一下部長"},{"start":4669.239,"end":4683.05,"text":"這個等一下跟臺灣菸酒也有關係這個運產條例在這個12月13號通過了然後這個有做了修正就是針對這個遷讀反抗運動的就定罰則也定刑期那現在我看了一個新聞這個是在這個去年的"},{"start":4687.513,"end":4698.84,"text":"12月26號到現在已經超過一年了你們有啟動一個公股求援防護網就是要成立一個防堵信託基金那請問一下這一年過去有成立了嗎"},{"start":4708.583,"end":4718.428,"text":"從目前來說我們是看藍協成立職籃球員的簽約信的一個信託那成立了什麼 抱歉 剛才聽不清楚"},{"start":4720.882,"end":4743.345,"text":"不是 我們是這樣子 因為藍協的部分是請PLG聯盟還有T1聯盟凝聚然後共識 然後和藍協演繹成立一個簽約金的一個信託是所以現在有簽約金的信託嗎對 最主要我們是希望就是說這個最主要是為了防止就是說我們的球員去簽賭啦"},{"start":4744.847,"end":4770.447,"text":"去遷讀防堵因為球員有的時候我們第一個要保護他也要讓他不要受到外面的一些東西然後讓他有一個比較安心的一個環境來做這個部分所以我們認為台灣銀行跟台酒公司也會鼓勵這個球員去參加這個藍鞋這個防堵基金的信託還有藍鞋球員簽約金的信託那請問一下那現在我們的台啤台酒"},{"start":4771.167,"end":4789.717,"text":"有加入了嗎?球員有加入了嗎?來,我先跟你們講一下這個你們可以參考中華職棒大聯盟他們就有這個防堵的基金,他們是分成兩類一個就像你剛才所講的,是一個簽約金"},{"start":4791.798,"end":4810.371,"text":"這個簽約金就是說你簽約金三分之一後存入這個大概是你剛才所講的但是我覺得你也講的不明確另外一個是這個職棒球員房賭基金信託這個其實應該才要做的除了簽約金之外房賭基金信託每個月定期定額存入一個合理的一個金額那現在呢"},{"start":4811.552,"end":4836.681,"text":"這個在台灣的籃球的部分因為這跟我們比較有相關包含台皮跟台雲都有現在台灣有兩個職業籃球的聯盟一個就是台灣職業聯球大聯盟職業籃球大聯盟另外一個是PLG那SBL是算是半職業的那是不是這三個都沒有所謂的像這個中華職棒一樣它有一個職人球員的防堵基金的信託"},{"start":4839.703,"end":4863.823,"text":"他們基本上是讓球員去加入球員去加入我是說你們有沒有成立這個基金信託啊如果沒有成立的話怎麼去加入勒這個部分是正在談的部分正在談所以我說已經一年了嘛當然你那時候你是講說是這個公股球員公股球員要成立一個防堵信託基金但是因為我們台九台銀呢"},{"start":4865.423,"end":4887.768,"text":"這個第一個在SBL都有那另外一個呢 台酒是跟這個台啤永豐雲報嘛這次在台灣職業籃球大聯盟都有那我是要求啦 這個我們的台啤跟這個我們的台銀去跟直籃談 這跟籃協談一起把這一個 像這一個中華職棒的這一個球員法輪基金信託把它做起來好不好"},{"start":4889.108,"end":4916.327,"text":"謝謝委員的建議對啊 因為我們從去年開始要做到現在已經一年的時間了都沒有做你們可不可以給一個期程啊好 我們積極的來處理 然後來做回報好 就是看你們要怎麼做來跟本席來講一下 好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝主席謝謝李坤貞委員因為賴總統有說朝野版本要來協商嘛那我們再看行政院是不是還要提出版本啊"},{"start":4917.108,"end":4919.37,"text":"主席 麻煩請財政部莊部長好 請莊部長委員好部長 剛剛大家一直提到的財政收支劃分法既有收 還要有支的部分"},{"start":4940.987,"end":4966.312,"text":"那收的部分除了垂直如何分配之外水平要如何分配那現在水平分配因為都沒有討論那一天事實上是臨時要表決前幾分鐘才拿出來的修正案那就通過了所以通過之後各地各縣市地方都引起非常大的反彈那是不是因為這樣所以現在有一些討論"},{"start":4967.95,"end":4994.847,"text":"那我現在還要提醒你不是只有收的部分的垂直分配跟水平分配的問題資的部分 權責如何劃分也完全沒有那這個權責如何劃分也不是你財政部一個部可以決定的收的部分大概跟縣市政府談這些如何分配的公式你們之前有去做了兩三次"},{"start":4996.192,"end":5019.625,"text":"基本上把那些公式的指標已經縮減到剩下二十幾項嘛那一部分當然是需要繼續進行那資的部分如何建立行政院你要召集地方政府跟中央政府大家一起來談如何來分配這樣子才有辦法完整的去調整整個財政收支劃分法"},{"start":5021.262,"end":5044.157,"text":"所以我覺得這個工作非常的艱鉅啊那應該不要停頓要趕快進行在資的部分應該趕快建議行政院也要召集各地方政府那當然收的部分水平分配的部分跟垂直分配的部分你們是有很重要的參與比例但資的部分恐怕要更高層級才有辦法處理你認不認同啊"},{"start":5045.077,"end":5059.768,"text":"委員說得很細第一個就是資的部分因為中央垂直分配的部分涉及到中央跟地方的市權的劃分你要有市權的劃分清楚才有資對不對錢是跟著市權走的所以這一次因為完全沒有討論到市權那市權又涉及到各部會的業務執掌去怎麼樣做明確的劃分所以這個部分院裡面會要統籌來做這個跟各部會來做討論我舉一個例子"},{"start":5075.058,"end":5097.973,"text":"現在在討論那個說多少所得稅比例以下的老人他的健保費要由中央政府出還是地方政府出還是有沒有要統一這個如果大家能夠把事權談好是併在一起處理的不然的話現在喔他們真是在實質的剝奪行政機關的這個財政權"},{"start":5102.54,"end":5129.972,"text":"因為其實行政權主要兩大核心就是人事跟經費那他用一再的用法律案綁這一些費用的支出其實就是實質在剝奪你行政機關的權利這個我認為是違反憲法權利分立的原則我個人認為還蠻明確的啦那只是他不是用預算案他現在是用法律案的方式來綁這個以後"},{"start":5133.14,"end":5148.405,"text":"除非我們的憲法制度改變不然以後沒有人有辦法執政了他是把外國內閣制國會所有的權利拿到台灣要來用那台灣不是內閣制國家啊照理來講如果你合理"},{"start":5150.165,"end":5172.824,"text":"可以討論真的大家都想要走內閣制國家的話要從憲法的修正開始結果他不尋此道他要用他國衛多數的權力就去搶奪我跟你講這樣子是沒完沒了因為如果可以這樣的話那我以後等到執政黨 多數黨的時候我也可以去搶奪地方政府的財政我也可以去搶奪他的權力"},{"start":5174.042,"end":5186.708,"text":"那整個台灣的這個憲政制度全部都亂了套這是我們最憂心的所以我覺得那個還是要去進行好 那我要另外請土銀的何董事長請何董事長"},{"start":5194.765,"end":5205.66,"text":"剛剛的對話我有聽到但是你土地銀行作為一個過去被標榜為不動產融資的專業銀行這是你們土銀以前最大的定位"},{"start":5207.025,"end":5229.588,"text":"好那現在央行因為他的政策所以做了一些限縮那對你們跟其他的銀行沒有差別待遇嗎目前主管機關對我們在土建農工房貸他單獨另外有設定了一個限制的比率使得我們跟其他商業銀行的那個差別越來越小比較不再像完全"},{"start":5230.689,"end":5255.97,"text":"所以我覺得你應該也要把這個狀況反映出來啊當初土地銀行設立的目的是什麼那政策當然要推動大家是要一體比較合理但是你們也要有你們自己的空間啊不然不是隨波逐流上面怎麼規定我就怎麼做那以後如果都不能帶的時候假設政策再進一步限縮那你土地銀行平常沒有做其他業務的時候怎麼辦"},{"start":5257.714,"end":5274.847,"text":"是 那跟委員報告是說目前只要是政策性的我們都全部在配合我知道 所以我的意思是說當這個政策下來的時候你們要以你們主體的立場跟他溝通可不可以有部分的差別待遇因為每一個營養設立的基礎不一樣啊是"},{"start":5275.507,"end":5286.855,"text":"你是以不動產的融資作為起身所以你才叫做土地銀行嘛那如果不動產投資你都不能做了那你還土地銀行幹嘛那土地銀行就改成商業銀行啊"},{"start":5289.192,"end":5316.047,"text":"我講的是這個意思我不是說你現在錯了我是說如果政策是這樣的時候你應該跟他溝通說應該要容許你有一部分的空間跟他們不一樣是 我們會跟金管會再來討論這個部分的空間不是啦 這個對你做這個限制的是央行嘛怎麼會是金管會對我們現在的限制是金管會它是配合央行的政策嘛對不對它已經限制了兩年了是好 那請回座喔是請那個菸酒公司的當董事長"},{"start":5319.437,"end":5346.789,"text":"請湯董部長你可以先請回座啦謝謝委員好加熱菸的那個送了沒 送去省了沒公務員報告我們113年1月就已經申請了7款那陸陸續續3、4次的這個資料補正我們在12月為什麼你們資料這麼差要補這麼多次你們送的資料一開始都沒有好好準備嗎是怎麼樣還是他們用這個理由在拖延"},{"start":5349.293,"end":5374.85,"text":"跟委員報告 事實上那個資料因為真的是國建署要的資料相當的細所以員工也來來回回修改了很多次啦那國建署一再講錯話就馬上就要過 馬上就一年多了這個法律是112年通過的一年因為加熱菸不能夠合法已經漏掉 不要講你們公司的損失光說就漏掉幾十億啦"},{"start":5377.422,"end":5391.533,"text":"另外就是說你有沒有預算說假設今年譬如說再過兩個月通過之後你加熱菸的這一方面的生產能夠對於你的這個公司可以創造怎麼樣的利潤空間有沒有準備"},{"start":5392.674,"end":5416.726,"text":"跟委員報告 從112年這個煙害防治法展開以後到上個月 煙酒公司已經下滑了45%的香煙所以未來如果兩個月這個加熱煙如果能通過我們的豐原煙廠應該兩到三個月就可以馬上量產可以把過去損失的這個下滑的營業額應該可以補回一半以上"},{"start":5417.566,"end":5445.747,"text":"那這樣子你有沒有心裡有沒有一個打算這樣大概可以補多少回來應該四五十億跑不掉是啊所以你剛剛大家在問你說為什麼你的業績一直下滑的時候你這部分也應該要出來跟他們說明事實上現在市面上吸加熱菸的人比例越來越高啊因為加熱菸沒有泥骨丁嘛沒有焦油嘛只有泥骨丁嘛所以對健康也比較好對於不吸菸的人也比較好"},{"start":5447.213,"end":5458.815,"text":"那這個邏輯很奇怪啊 止煙捲煙都在準結果加熱煙到現在要省這麼久他怎麼不把止煙再拿回去省省看啊如果照他的標準 現在止煙會過嗎"},{"start":5461.332,"end":5483.559,"text":"我跟你說因為加熱煙比較沒有二手煙的問題我看到很多人 那我是不抽煙啦很多人 連我們同仁很多都在抽加熱煙雖然沒有過 大家都在抽啦就是眼睛蒙住不趕快去進行我要請莊部長再上台一下莊部長"},{"start":5486.411,"end":5514.99,"text":"部長這個事情我在這邊質詢已經問過好多次了我請妳要跟國建署要跟外府部講有有我們都有去跟他做說明你有沒有一年這樣漏掉多少稅跟他講跟行政院講然後這個東西要審這麼久到底要審多久啊法律通過一年多了今天不是剛通過三個月五個月本來講說一開始的時候問他說你這個要審多久可以過說還大概半年"},{"start":5516.56,"end":5536.507,"text":"過去多久了已經過去14個月15個月了拜託你就理論上面就你的稅的角度來講就你的研究公司來講你都應該大聲疾呼啦都應該跟外部講說你這樣子太離譜了加油好不好謝謝謝謝吳秉瑞委員接著我們請黃珊珊委員"},{"start":5553.089,"end":5559.262,"text":"現在主席我請財政部長跟台酒公司湯董事長莊部長還有湯董委員好"},{"start":5572.179,"end":5595.856,"text":"好兩位早我想剛剛很多委員都在討論台酒的營收其實每次講到台酒這個問題這個希望你賺錢又希望你不賺錢我不希望你賺太多錢也希望你能夠有錢可以賺所以這個對民意代表來說是非常兩難但是一樣的台酒公司的營收我想很多同仁都討論過了台酒公司的營收從108年到現在從600多億盡力74億"},{"start":5602.02,"end":5628.998,"text":"然後610、583、567到550從619降到550少了60幾億淨利從74.7降到58億整個的營收是不斷的下滑那當然你剛剛說是淹害防治法只淹收入減少原物料成本上漲這個部分董事長你有什麼不是開源嗎就是節流嗎這樣子的淨利一直下滑一般的企業"},{"start":5630.56,"end":5639.961,"text":"這樣子不是不好看啊董事長有沒有什麼想法呢接下去要怎樣我們要賣更多的煙賣更多的酒還是有其他的方法"},{"start":5641.677,"end":5661.722,"text":"跟委員報告,事實上剛剛我還沒有踢完,煙害防治法從112年1月到上個月台灣的總體市場從289萬箱的香菸總量下滑到168萬這什麼好事啊?對台灣人來說少抽菸嘛,那你的營收少很多啊?"},{"start":5662.102,"end":5682.924,"text":"但是大部分過去持有我們香煙的人都已經轉去持有非合法的電子煙跟加熱煙所以沒有辦法在創造營收的情況下我有幫你想到一個方法所以我們去找了你們對外的外銷也就是說你看到日本看到美國他們的煙是到全球去做處理的"},{"start":5683.444,"end":5700.929,"text":"那台灣營酒公司當然也是我們國家重要的供應事業我們這個部分的外銷目標我看到了你們每一年都有訂出外銷的預算對吧對外銷收入的目標從106年大概9億到110年訂到12億這些狀況都是你的目標值可是你實際外銷的實際收入從9億一直當當當當到現在3億這個不再是"},{"start":5713.919,"end":5740.385,"text":"台湾人抽烟习惯的问题了吧那你为什么外销的收入标可以从9亿到12亿实际上只收到3亿多呢而且达成率大概就是三成左右那每年今年又变了9亿多你明年打算收多少啊官委员报告最主要过去我们60%的外销是从中国啦好都是中国中国不让你进去了是吗"},{"start":5742.15,"end":5767.371,"text":"所以那你每年還定9億幹嘛呢你每年定9億然後又說我的你看你從哪一年開始就只有3億了109年109年你定了12億實際收入3億你第二年還是定12億收入4億到現在定9億收入去年也只有3億那你明年還要編9億多的預算我們是不是直接把你砍掉比較快董事長"},{"start":5770.151,"end":5795.188,"text":"如果沒有辦法做到就不用編這種虛的預算啦這個預算收入現在編9億是怎樣打算明年再來告訴我執行率只有30%你要怎麼樣你是這個公司的董事長你對這樣的預算編列還有接下去的營收目標有什麼想法還是每年就這樣編空的編假的每年執行率只有30%那就不要拿到立法院來你怎麼說勒"},{"start":5798.545,"end":5805.116,"text":"各位委員報告齁 這個預算其實我還沒有來亂編的 誰編的 編的亂七八糟"},{"start":5806.618,"end":5829.477,"text":"每年實際收入已經好多年了已經從108年執行率不到4成6接下來到去年只有3成4還有一年只有29%然後每年還是照編9億多我希望董事長今天的質詢結束你們到預算第二輪協商的時候我相信等一下會審預算吧自己要不要先自己砍一砍"},{"start":5833.239,"end":5854.077,"text":"我們會跟同仁討論數字再跟委員報告這個預算書根本就不該送出來這個預算書送出來就是一個可笑的事情我們希望你賺錢但也不希望你賺太多錢但是你至少自己不要騙自己啊好第二個你說已經因為中國市場的問題中國是什麼時候開始不讓台酒公司進去的"},{"start":5856.701,"end":5868.436,"text":"中國大陸什麼時候讓你不再進去了我告訴你好了111年現在113年這兩年你們做了什麼努力嗎還是他就不給你進去當時是說補件的問題你們有補件嗎111年開始我們"},{"start":5874.303,"end":5900.914,"text":"公務員報告還是你什麼都不知道那我怎麼問下去呢我們有補件啦但是因為那個在華註冊編號應該是沒有通過反正就是沒有辦法進去那我現在就問了好中國市場我看到你們資料是跌了87%所以你9億只能收到3億我也不怪你問題是你其他的市場呢其他的市場我們有努力去做嗎中國有一個代理的經銷商"},{"start":5902.014,"end":5924.227,"text":"歐洲有 美國有 日本有 韓國有這些都有但是我們現在的對外的銷售方式你跟我說法只有四種一個是透過經銷商第二透過市銷商第三透過自由報售第四委制代工所以我們的經銷商你看到我們不是有新南向政策嗎為什麼新南向只有新加坡"},{"start":5925.697,"end":5954.822,"text":"我們在其他的國家有沒有任何要去跟人家的國家找到經銷商去行銷你的台灣煙酒呢各位我們報告其他的國家沒有辦法進去是因為我們的品項的成本變高所以我們在今年度我們也會開始開發一些比較低單價的產品進入南向國家所以新南向到現在為止沒有是你要開始開發是所以你要努力開發要多久才會有成果不知道"},{"start":5956.277,"end":5977.502,"text":"你要開始開發你要成果3.5年以後了是嗎應該不用那麼久第二個部分是市銷商我看到你們給我的訊息是說你們有跟韓國還有一個俄羅斯簽市銷合約的MOU但是董事長知道嗎因為現在烏俄戰鬥關係所以美國發布了禁制令禁制"},{"start":5978.502,"end":6003.431,"text":"禁止高級的酒類銷售給俄羅斯然後我們看到台灣煙酒公司去跟俄羅斯簽了一個市銷合約這不是很奇怪嗎你們要跟你們要反其道而行全世界都不賣酒給俄羅斯我們要去跟俄羅斯合作有這樣的事嗎你知道嗎不知道有沒有人要給他打pass啊主席這樣我問不下去啊"},{"start":6005.191,"end":6022.443,"text":"你知道嗎還是不知道是旁邊那個總經理知道嗎黃珊珊委員所提出的這個就是美國跟俄羅斯這件事情你們自己給我的回答我的題目都已經早就洩題了總經理曾總市銷商是開發市場的我們先試看看市銷商"},{"start":6029.995,"end":6038.082,"text":"現在整個歐洲地區的威士忌是很低迷所以我們還是會以穆斯林的市場為主你為什麼跟俄羅斯簽市銷合約?"},{"start":6044.166,"end":6072.161,"text":"這個部分我可能還要回去跟同仁了解你跟全世界走相反的路就對了問清楚我希望你去我剛講我希望你去賺錢又不希望你賺太多錢但是既然國內我們不要國內的國人一直喝酒嘛一直抽菸嘛所以我們希望說你到外銷去跟其他的國家一樣把台灣菸酒公司的好的產品行銷到全世界所以你應該去拓展我剛講你的營收不應該建立在台灣人健康的"},{"start":6073.121,"end":6101.821,"text":"破壞上面所以希望你能夠拓展其他的市場而不是單單的只在國內市場如果你一年有五六百億的營收外銷只有三億台酒公司要檢討啊拓投你不到你的零頭啊全部都是台灣人在買單啊我現在又問你外銷的東西沒有任何計畫只有三億的收入那真的不要幹啊你們現在還有一個部門專門在做這件事不是嗎"},{"start":6103.226,"end":6115.794,"text":"所以一個新南向提出自己的計畫如果董事長上任有這個雄心壯志很好提計畫給我第二個還有說曾經在107年說要去越南設廠購買跟當地代工還有這樣的計畫嗎"},{"start":6119.026,"end":6146.794,"text":"目前沒有目前也沒有了所以對外的拓展我希望您上任後在一個月之內把未來對外銷的拓展計畫提出一個完整的想法包括新南向包括你去簽市銷拜託一下了解一下全世界的狀況不要去跟世界走不一樣的路全世界在抵制俄羅斯我們還去跑去跟俄羅斯做這個奇怪的生意很奇怪啦那最重要的是我希望"},{"start":6148.052,"end":6167.248,"text":"部長您站在旁邊我再問最後一個問題現在中國大陸的低價的啤酒掛著不同的品牌傾銷到台灣來掛著日系麒麟啤酒掛著美系百威啤酒的名義Made in China的東西現在不斷的在侵蝕我們台灣的市場"},{"start":6168.149,"end":6178.48,"text":"第二個 台灣煙酒公司也跟我們相關的國內的優質廠商成立了所謂的釀酒商協會我想問一下 你們什麼時候要向經濟部去申請反請銷調查他們目前來說釀酒商協會已經把申請案送到財政部這個部分我們會進行"},{"start":6186.448,"end":6213.083,"text":"因為我們有一個生意小組會跟經濟部做市場調查等等因為這個會影響到我們台酒公司的營收影響到我們國人這些公平的競爭那最重要的是如果台灣民眾搞不清楚還以為那是日系以為那是美系這對還有消費者欺騙的問題好嗎?我希望在今年的過年前有個初步的結果過年後你一定要把東西送到經濟部可以嗎?"},{"start":6214.803,"end":6238.49,"text":"我們有一個審議小組會來做這個處理是我們申請進來一個月內就會處理已經是現在進行式台酒公司是裡面最大的一家是台酒公司不領頭羊這些台灣人要喝到好的精釀的啤酒好高品質的啤酒而不是傾銷的啤酒好嗎是的 是的好不好 請部長給我一個時程表好"},{"start":6239.17,"end":6244.474,"text":"好 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝黃珊珊委員 謝謝接著我們請羅明才委員主席各位委員 初列席官員大家好主席 麻煩請莊部長好 莊部長莊部長 委員好今年是幾年"},{"start":6270.319,"end":6272.916,"text":"2014年西元是幾年?"},{"start":6276.397,"end":6300.731,"text":"2025那你看2025年齁2525就是所有22縣市都在期盼你有沒有?你有沒有?有什麼?財劃法已經通過了啊到底有沒有要撥下來啊我們新北我這邊喊了大概也一二十年齁終於盼到了一點希望的花朵這個中央"},{"start":6301.932,"end":6315.766,"text":"關愛的這個水源即將緩緩的流到新北可以增加374億在這裡我要拜託部長加快速度這過都過了"},{"start":6317.387,"end":6338.516,"text":"因為這個畢竟是百分之七十左右的民意希望所有的錢可以下放地方不要中央集錢又集權就趕快讓他過嘛讓他過個好年嘛二零二五二五二五二五你有啊沒有拜託有啦部長加油一點好不好"},{"start":6339.383,"end":6357.539,"text":"委員12月23立法院三讀通過的裁判法目前行政院還沒有收到立法院給行政院的快了快了是好那如果收到了以後呢你的立場會不會請行政院就不要再阻撓了嗎"},{"start":6359.427,"end":6362.85,"text":"收到以後第一個就是說因為新的修正後的財化法它中央跟地方的部分因為必須釋出大概目前計算是3753億的一個金額這樣的一個金額後續會要怎麼樣的處理我們跟"},{"start":6376.94,"end":6394.733,"text":"行政院以及主計總署都一起在對於有關相關的一個行政救濟的一些措施都還在相關措施都在評估當中如果是卓院長問你的時候你就跟他講說去年2024年今年25年嘛已經截止了去年的稅收超徵多少錢"},{"start":6397.003,"end":6413.304,"text":"跟委員報告在2013年的稅收要到12月底的計算還沒有出來嗎已經到了啊那只是目前推估的部分全國大概會比預算數增加4,900到5,100那中央的部分這是全國"},{"start":6415.547,"end":6439.741,"text":"這是全國那中央的部分大概3500到3700那這個部分其實稅收如果超過預算數的部分屬於中央統籌分配稅款的部分也都會撥下去會在今年的農曆年前就會撥給地方政府我們大概估計有350億到370億會再撥給地方政府這是第13次的撥付那另外屬於中央的拜託那個新北要多一點"},{"start":6440.761,"end":6463.487,"text":"那我們會按照公式計算我們會按公式計算那屬於這個2013年的中央統籌分配稅款會在今年的過年前就趕快撥給各地方政府那屬於中央的部分第一個我們也已經增加還債了市長你剛剛算的那個數字大家心裡就喘了一口氣啊之前有些委員可能不明事理"},{"start":6464.327,"end":6478.082,"text":"講到3700億就說,就是什麼,會什麼,迴旋亂正講到3700多少億就說,國家可能所有事情會停滯然後所以行政部門會shut down所有東西就會倒掉什麼講得危言聳聽所以這個數字會講話嘛"},{"start":6482.426,"end":6485.73,"text":"一出來馬上就把他扒下去對不對稅收超徵快五千億委員這不是這樣因為全國的部分有是屬於地方的部分本來就屬於地方的那另外屬於中國部分的我們還會再播下屬於地方"},{"start":6497.583,"end":6513.833,"text":"中央總統分類上我們也會再撥下去那至於中央超過預算數的部分當然第一個我們就會不去舉債也就是今年原來預算數要舉債的部分1571億就沒有做舉債那另外部分我們也要還債因為這是預算書上規定的要還債我們總共還了1358億這要還現在的國債中上面是修多少國債中是25點"},{"start":6527.336,"end":6529.599,"text":"所以25.2這個數字也還好啊"},{"start":6537.831,"end":6559.756,"text":"當然我們對於財務的控管我們必須要很嚴謹因為依照公債法有規定的而且我知道部長你也知道全世界那麼多的國家當中你如果比較美國的負債或者是其他日本的負債各國的負債我們的財務狀況是屬於優等班呢還是我們的負債情況很嚴重"},{"start":6566.377,"end":6584.992,"text":"其實我們中華民國在這個有關債務的控管其實我們是優等班因為跟G20 20個國家比其實我們只比俄羅斯跟沙烏地阿拉伯土耳其高我們其實是相當低的我們大概就是百分之三十點多占GDP的比例所以大家可以理解"},{"start":6585.652,"end":6596.739,"text":"我們國家的負債情況是優秀的所以拜託不要再用說國家會破產什麼我們從來沒有說國家會破產不是國家會破產而是因為這3700多億的部分市權沒有調整的時候怎麼要拖出來"},{"start":6606.224,"end":6622.721,"text":"不理解的委員,有的是剛剛來才第一次來然後就信口開河,啊這個少了3700億國家會倒會垮事實上是不會的所以就不要以訛傳訛,我們要就事論事另外今天講到其他的單位"},{"start":6625.203,"end":6646.078,"text":"土銀的表現,事實上感覺穩穩的,也做得不錯可是你給何董事長還有張總經理的薪水我算了一下,跟其他38間的本土銀行來比他大概是領到的錢是敬佩莫作"},{"start":6647.52,"end":6673.132,"text":"那部長你說這些表現當中那有哪一個人的薪水領得比他少的38家銀行就董事長來說好了我跟委員報告國營事業的董事長總經理負責任他們的薪資事實上是有一定的規定的不是我來確定的麻煩你往你的左後方邊稍微看一下是"},{"start":6674.173,"end":6690.15,"text":"你給他一點過來的眼神嘛據我所知所有公股銀行特別是這些公股銀行百分之百的大家很多都是蒙身去意你講董事長他一個月領多少薪水"},{"start":6691.853,"end":6714.31,"text":"總長薪水我也不方便在這邊講,我想說他屬於他個人的有沒有十萬塊?這個部分屬於他個人的,當然十萬塊是有啦那有沒有二十萬?二十萬?我不知道欸,應該是沒有吧你看各位親愛的全國同胞,擔任一個銀行那麼大規模我們再來講,圖銀的整個資產規模有多少?"},{"start":6721.247,"end":6733.818,"text":"管一個三兆多資產的規模結果薪資是領不到18萬為什麼不繼續學習新加坡倚夢養年因為我不是只有講董事長因為土銀的員工有多少人8000多人吧"},{"start":6749.796,"end":6771.555,"text":"五千七百多台銀的員工有多少七千多這些所有每天認真在工作苦幹認真幹然後弄半天追求人生最大的目標就是董事長的十八萬的薪資我的天啊"},{"start":6773.376,"end":6779.17,"text":"幾萬個人他終身窮極一生的目標就是董事長最高位階18萬"},{"start":6783.599,"end":6803.98,"text":"委員這是因為有相關法規的關係那也跟委員報告除了董事長之外就是論事其他員工的薪資已經跟公務員的條件脫鉤了既然不合理本席在這裡已經為幾萬個員工的未來在這裡我們努力來討論有沒有成長改善的空間"},{"start":6804.941,"end":6832.583,"text":"每一年就是一年又一年下一次來還是同樣的答案我覺得這個對不起這幾萬個辛苦的工作同仁工作同仁的薪資已經跟公務員脫鉤了就是還有條薪那當然委員也非常重視我們國營事業的員工謝謝委員我相信對於我們同仁的待遇跟福利的重視那我們也會來做相關的另外一個因為還有煙酒公司"},{"start":6833.624,"end":6851.075,"text":"那董事長是?湯董事長湯祈安湯以前的酒是黃湯希望黃湯下肚期待你的事業會平安叫湯祈安"},{"start":6853.359,"end":6864.232,"text":"那你一直所有的面對外在壓力節節下退要思考一個好的方法比如說有沒有聽過茅台貴州茅台吧"},{"start":6865.95,"end":6882.311,"text":"他有上市吧,上市以後發展的不斷的成長,整個市值各方面可以說是很成功啦我希望部長也可以思考一下,怎麼樣來帶領"},{"start":6884.233,"end":6901.489,"text":"煙酒公司可以好好的發揮不然每年在這邊看的業績都是節節敗退但是跟民生相關的紅標民酒的問題還有一些紹興酒料理用酒的問題今年度會不會漲價煙價會不會調高"},{"start":6905.632,"end":6925.5,"text":"各位委員報告我們民生用品的米酒類今年跟明年都不會漲價那菸品的部分呢我們今年主打的會是以高價位的菸品然後打中價位我們設定的是90到95塊的香菸100塊以上的香菸我們未來今年都不會考慮紹興紅露會不會調高售價"},{"start":6932.406,"end":6936.25,"text":"我們會調整產品但是調整售價可能需要再評估"},{"start":6938.188,"end":6963.156,"text":"拜託不要調,因為本席來自新店、聖坑、石碇、坪林、烏來你去查一下,坪林喝醉多的就是紅綠酒因為農民他們查明回來都是需要讓身體可以去濕除寒所以拜託不要調高,調高大家生活都很難過請注意一下這個問題,謝謝"},{"start":6978.4,"end":6996.784,"text":"現在質詢請陳玉珍稱召委謝謝主席 請這個莊部長等一下是土銀請莊部長請土銀的何董事長委員好"},{"start":6998.254,"end":7027.079,"text":"部長 這麼好 你有專心聽昨天賴總統的原告的講話嗎 元旦的講話嗎有的聽到他說 新的一年會繼續推動福國利民的政策但是中央需要足夠的財源來進行各項措施因此我 就是賴總統期待財化法的修法朝野政黨能夠就各自的版本冷靜再思考為國家尋求長治久安知道 對吧這是他的原文"},{"start":7027.719,"end":7036.882,"text":"像您這邊列出來是對的這個朝野政黨人就各自的版本你們的版本在哪裡"},{"start":7038.629,"end":7049.962,"text":"中委員報告財政部對於財化法的修法一直也都努力第一個我們就指標的部分除了三個指標以外有共識我問的是版本已經收斂到三個財政部是七上滿下嗎"},{"start":7059.112,"end":7073.528,"text":"總統不知道沒有版本嗎第一個除了指標之外還有權重跟調整係數都不用講理由我們講答案這理由我也聽一百遍我說版本欸總統不知道沒有版本嗎還是你們跟他講有版本"},{"start":7074.749,"end":7091.548,"text":"我們所有的一個進度都會跟院方報告有沒有財政部的版本到現在我們都在進行當中有沒有提出來沒有討論完怎麼會有版本當然是要有討論有一個跟各地方政府討論有共識所以現在為止有沒有行政院的版本"},{"start":7092.574,"end":7120.638,"text":"我跟委員報告我已經講過很多遍就是說我們要做一個討論所以你們還沒有討論結束嗎我們還沒有版本嗎那如果還沒有版本戴總統這樣子講是因為他被你們欺瞞以為有版本嗎我們不可能欺瞞我們可是戴總統你們沒有欺騙他所以你說他說謊他不知道我沒有說他不知道啊那他為什麼說潮域有各自的版本我到現在看不懂這句話不知道是你們的錯還是他的錯也就是說"},{"start":7121.038,"end":7146.93,"text":"朝野各自可以就忍靜思考然後就各自版本來做討論所以你是不是要趕快照賴總統的意思趕快提出版本啊我覺得版本這件事情都要經過完善的討論所以你要做完整的規劃我知道總統都已經說要照朝野版本因為趕快的話如果討論也不是一個好的我知道都要完善的規劃規劃個一二十年但賴總統都已經說趕快提出來他已經這樣講了你們還這樣拖拖拉拉不尊重總統喔"},{"start":7147.97,"end":7167.165,"text":"沒有不尊重總統那總統都已經心之下指導期了所以你什麼時候要提出版本啊總統說朝野版本要討論啊什麼時候第一個現在12月20號立法院三讀通過你們的不要關心立法院的版本關心你們的版本都還沒有送到行政院你們的啦你們的版本啦我跟委員報告"},{"start":7168.406,"end":7188.104,"text":"好 那沒關係 我不為難你來 你不敢壓日期只要總統說明天拿出版本 明天版本就會出現我也不為難你了 這個也已經上升到行政院也許也不是一個財政部長可以決定的啦如果總統說下個禮拜版本就拿出來討論下禮拜版本就會生出來 我相信就會是這樣子不過沒關係 我想請教您 剛剛"},{"start":7189.085,"end":7204.904,"text":"很多人也有提到這三千七百五十三億的問題我剛也聽到您回答文財委員說這個超徵的這個中央的部分三千多億三千七百億的話三百七十億就會直接撥給地方嘛所以還剩三千四百多億嘛所以事實上"},{"start":7206.187,"end":7229.116,"text":"事實上三千七百多億還有三千四百多億就算明年實施 更何況我們還沒有實施明年實施也沒有問題啊把這錢撥給地方也沒有問題啊這個因應這個財化修正後三七五三億哪裡會有什麼各個部會這邊恐嚇百姓的這種說這個不夠那個不夠明明財政部表現這麼好一年就超徵了五千億 對吧其中中央還有三千多億"},{"start":7230.457,"end":7250.834,"text":"對不對不是這樣子不是這樣子算第一個我們剛剛講的是113年度的稅客收入113年的稅客收入我們對於稅客收入部分我們原來預算數有籌編的多少到中央統計統計有多嗎我們已經12個月分配下去了我知道那如果超過原來預算數的部分屬於地方的部分我們也會撥下去對300多億我們一定會撥下去嘛那是113年的部分那您剛剛講的部分又涉及到114年114年預算已經編了嘛"},{"start":7258.72,"end":7259.943,"text":"所以內政部啊 什麼衛福部 各個預算這些都不會改變啊 對不對"},{"start":7270.236,"end":7286.563,"text":"已經編了嘛 也省差不多了嘛已經編了 所以中央要相關的施政就沒有從編的問題嘛它的相關稅出也已經都已經列入了嘛那是這樣的情況所以其他各個部位都說謊 只有財政部長講的是實話怎麼這個會少 那個會減都已經編了啊 那就要看"},{"start":7293.325,"end":7312.192,"text":"12月20通過的財化法三讀通過以後什麼時候實施生效呢那這個時候要依法行政的話就要開始說生效的話可能再重編嗎不是重編那必須要依照他這個法律的規定看要怎麼實施那還有可能重編嗎那還有可能重編嗎結束這些都過了假如這些措施都結束以後那會重編嗎如果那些措施都已經用盡了以後會重編嗎"},{"start":7322.622,"end":7328.966,"text":"不是已經編了就不會重編了嗎所以還是不會改變嗎我想請問來部長我也不為難您啦因為這個都在讓你回答你沒有辦法回答的問題我們來問一下圖雲來這個圖雲這個我看你們的那個建築的部分"},{"start":7340.632,"end":7362.951,"text":"就是金門的部分有三棟建築金門的土營有三棟建築是軍方蓋的民國五十五年蓋的已經屋齡有五十六年 五十一年了五十幾年了 都危老了很老而且危險嘛那現在你們又要跟金城分行你們的兩個分行要合併嘛那我看你們那個建築改良預算的情形很差那金門的分行改建什麼時候排上計畫呢"},{"start":7364.072,"end":7389.918,"text":"跟委員報告是主要是會延後是本來金門分廊是要採都更然後那個金門縣政府說他沒有還沒有目前沒有適應細則沒有辦法去做都更所以叫我們又回來做改成危老那我們申請危老的時候因為他又要我們做古蹟的文化資產的建立因為地下有坑道對然後文化資產建立以後要微波外部的檢核了以後所以先進度"},{"start":7391.398,"end":7414.358,"text":"變成告訴他說現在整個進度已經進行準備在做地質的探勘大概什麼時候開始有下一步呢最快的話應該是在今年中建築師圖案送到那個縣政府那個做檢測大概明年就有可能了這個進度要抓上謝謝那我們時間停一下我們請這個台九當董事長"},{"start":7421.279,"end":7448.433,"text":"時間沒有站起來董事長剛剛有委員提到你們跟那個大陸申請這個在華註冊碼的問題就是台灣啤酒的問題我們當初金門高樑跟你們一樣就被那個暫停暫停進入中國大陸嘛那我們後來我們去爭取不是說爭取我們有去有送件再重新送件但是我知道的是不是如你所說的是那個你們是根本沒有再去送了吧"},{"start":7449.52,"end":7477.561,"text":"你們根本沒有再去重送了吧所以事實上很多單位還是繼續再送呢各位委員報告目前有民間的業者主動要幫我們送這個文件因為他們跟中國那邊的關係好像是比較友好你們當初沒有送對不對不然以後當初你們沒有送對不對你們就停下來沒送因為我問了你們說那個營業額很低有送件喔有送件有送件嗎有送件有收到退補件嗎"},{"start":7481.116,"end":7485.375,"text":"他就是不明原因 所以沒有通過不明原因 沒有推薦 沒有補薦嗎"},{"start":7488.097,"end":7511.859,"text":"有補件 有補件但是沒有通過啦那現在你們打算再重新送就對了是不是是 我們也可以跟透過委員來協助幫我們申請這樣子可能學習金門高粱的方式就比較容易申請到這個我們會協助啦如果你們 因為之前知道是你們你們不打算送好像說這個營業額太低了吧好像才五千萬是吧一年才五千萬的營業額在啤酒的部分嘛"},{"start":7512.54,"end":7516.166,"text":"不只五千萬還另外請教你們的這個推廣費的預算怎麼變這麼高"},{"start":7522.328,"end":7545.667,"text":"跟我們報告我們推廣費的預算是以我們的營業額立法院預算的營業額我們是以600多億編列2.6%下去2.6%喔2.6%你賣的比金門高粱酒好嗎如果單一產品的話我們的啤酒賣的比金門高粱好啤酒賣的比金門高粱好你們的毛利是多少呢啤酒毛利應該還有"},{"start":7549.208,"end":7550.369,"text":"議員報告我剛提了我們預算還是看營業"},{"start":7564.393,"end":7584.411,"text":"對 營業額 總營業額 我也是看金酒的因為以前我們省金酒的預算你們總營業額跟 當然你們營業額比較高啦但你們的這個這個推廣會編的比例比金酒多很多吧你們是編2.6 我們才編2%是吧跟我們報告 因為金酒它是屬於單一產品我們是 我們公司的品項而且很多你們還是幫忙帶"},{"start":7585.692,"end":7611.882,"text":"像菸的話是代製而已嗎菸的部分我們自己生產我知道有人生產我知道有的是你幫品我跟我們報告因為金酒還有一個特殊狀況它是經銷制所以跟菸酒公司還是不太一樣所以因為經銷制所以我們的這個比較省就對了我們的推廣費比較省就對了是的沒錯然後你們的利率又比較差那你們是不是要考慮改變制度如果這樣子金酒制度看起來是一個比較好的制度如果這樣子的話我們會進行評估"},{"start":7614.58,"end":7639.07,"text":"我覺得這個台酒公司的這個照理來看整個經營當然我也沒有希望台酒的高粱賣得很好反正賣得不好沒關係比金門高粱差是沒有關係但是我覺得整體來講你們的這個利潤實在是就是收益實在是太低了這個一個這麼大的公司編這麼高的這個推廣費但整體的收益這麼低事實上如果這是在金門縣的話如果這是金門縣會早就會被K死了"},{"start":7639.21,"end":7662.804,"text":"我跟委員報告我們的預算裡面有接近大概2.6%裡面大概有接近1%多是香菸的菸價費因為可能金酒沒有做香菸香菸的菸價費每一年上架就要給1%多我們一年的香菸的菸價費高達7億以上這一塊就是說跟行銷沒有關你要上它的價就是要繳這麼多的"},{"start":7664.185,"end":7674.77,"text":"好那你的意思就是說你們只有1.6%啦是不是如果扣掉那個差不多那反而是我們金九變太多了那個我們回去請金九檢討好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝請回我們請吳立華委員"},{"start":7696.425,"end":7701.188,"text":"謝謝主席 有請土迎董事長董事長您好我來到財政委員會諮詢過很多次我一直很希望原住民的原住民保留地可以呢到我們的金融單位成功的來獲得一些貸款"},{"start":7725.706,"end":7751.816,"text":"解決他的一些融資問題改善原住民族人的財政體質那我在這邊也要特別的感謝因為沒有法律這樣規定但是呢可能部會之間有一些困難那我知道困難之後呢我們可以一一的來解決像是園民會他願意來提供信用保證所以他的作業要點呢已經通過審議了"},{"start":7753.447,"end":7772.873,"text":"那另外呢大家說保留地到底要如何建架那內政部那邊也已經做了原保地的建架系統那特別是金管會也提供了誘因特別是在永續金融的部分我看到就是已經給我公還了"},{"start":7773.473,"end":7796.255,"text":"在113年11月11日公布的永續金融評鑑指標其中新增了一個S2G1G4是否提供原住民保留地之相關擔保貸款方案所以我在這邊很感謝大家通力合作來協助解決這件事那我在這邊就是想要問"},{"start":7797.176,"end":7806.014,"text":"因為他們告訴我說預計今年初就是114年年初就可以上路了請教一下土銀這邊準備的狀況"},{"start":7808.759,"end":7827.464,"text":"根委員報告其實原民的貸款早在過去有原住民信用保證基金的時候土地銀行過去做了很多原住民的購物貸款那現在如果原住民信用保證基金在恢復做保證的話其實原住民的貸款應該是很容易迎刃而解的"},{"start":7828.624,"end":7853.487,"text":"準備狀況對 只要原住民信用保證基金開始在受理這些建樹的時候我想土地銀行一定也會努力去推動所以原保地沒有問題你們也願意來重做原保地貸款對 最主要是在原住民保其實本來現在我們本來就有一些原住民的綜合性貸款還有一些消費性貸款所以我們現在目前大概還有1000多件的原住民貸款在"},{"start":7854.488,"end":7874.983,"text":"董事長我之所以一直問元寶地是因為我諮詢過很多次所以族人很開心很期待也不斷的問我什麼時候上路也許他們有人都已經拿著元寶地跑到銀行去問特別是公股銀行所以我才會特別問您土地銀行準備的狀況如何"},{"start":7876.36,"end":7900.262,"text":"土地銀行平時對原住民貸款可以接了嗎?都可以接原保地可以接了喔?對,只要原住民信用保證基金開始有保證我們就會送件了好,就是確定了齁族人不會回覆我說,哎呀我們拿去了被拒絕,不會吧?不會不會那董事長您剛剛提到,對你們跟園民會這些年有合作這個我知道,您剛才也一直提"},{"start":7901.303,"end":7926.61,"text":"那園民會合作的公股銀行有兩家一家是核庫 一家就是土銀那像經濟事業貸款 青年創業貸款微型經濟活動貸款 原住民族事業貸款這四項是你們目前合作的項目可是我就不太明白因為從案件數來看的話 落差很大"},{"start":7927.21,"end":7931.013,"text":"跟核庫的落差很大以經濟事業貸款來講核庫279件土銀111件清創核庫60件土銀25件微型經濟貸款"},{"start":7942.643,"end":7969.038,"text":"合庫2119件土銀1203件原住民事業貸款合庫90件你們32件落差很大喔如果從放款金額看那我大致看到的就是其實說實在放款金額也不多啦那合庫5300萬你們是2900萬合庫大約是你們的1.8倍如果是原住民事業貸款的話"},{"start":7971.139,"end":7996.394,"text":"3500萬對你們的500萬大概合庫是你們的6.3倍差距很大那董事長您可不可以說明一下為什麼有這麼大的差距其實最主要還是要看那個分行的分布分布在哪裡那合庫的現在的分行加數大概也是土地銀行的1.5到1.8倍直接所以你們的加數比較少我才149家分行所以是可能是因為加數很少分布的地點 對"},{"start":7997.955,"end":8009.442,"text":"那董事長我必須這樣子講我也不是找你們的麻煩但是我聽到原民會各地的金融輔導員他們是接到民眾說到土營比較難"},{"start":8015.222,"end":8029.155,"text":"他們說比較不友善會被拒絕那如果是有這種情形那我回去一定會特別注意這件事情好不好是一定會的一定會因為我也不知道是真是假啦但是我們就是得到這樣的資訊好嗎是 好"},{"start":8030.416,"end":8046.591,"text":"那我是這樣子想因為土銀畢竟是百分之百的公股比起核庫那我覺得無論如何我們都有政策性的這個推動的任務沒有道理要比核庫差啦所以我希望你可以了解一下"},{"start":8047.151,"end":8069.629,"text":"那我最主要呢也是希望說我看到你們的專報寫說也不是沒有工具你們的金融服務你們也在推綠色金融行動方案3.0說要協助綠色跟永續發展的產業取得營運資金那我之前我經常在金管會質詢我有提到就是以消除歧視為目標說實在啦"},{"start":8070.47,"end":8088.116,"text":"我們原住民這個五批原則你光是借款人是原住民分數就很低了啦真的是很不友善啦很不利那你問他的資金用途還款來源分數都很低債權的保障分數很低受信長望呢像現在喔我明明覺得"},{"start":8089.236,"end":8113.499,"text":"露營場合法化了之後很多原鄉的青年都返鄉去做我覺得他也很符合綠色永續啊可是好像沒有被包含在內所以他也不太曉得說這個展望這個獸性到底是怎麼樣有一些人他可能要經營森林啊他需要書法他需要一些資金啊可是好像也沒有被納入所以我是希望說"},{"start":8114.6,"end":8131.669,"text":"我們應該要對原住民的產業發展有確實的認識然後做出正確的評估董事長您以為呢對 我很在乎委員這樣子說但是因為大概我們因為這種案子做得比較少所以同仁對這個的概念可能就不會那麼的充裕"},{"start":8132.609,"end":8146.75,"text":"所以我們也希望原民會能夠提供我們一些這方面的資料讓我們同仁知道說這個應該是納在綠色的金融裡面的參考謝謝董事長我很高興聽到您這樣說因為我其實我只是要提醒要讓您了解"},{"start":8147.972,"end":8166.46,"text":"其實原住民進入到這個所謂的金融市場也不過就這七八十年的事情那又處處像土地的限制法律的限制其實我們很辛苦那我們的財政體質呢我也希望能強化我也希望有一天我們原住民族人不要再依賴政府的政策"},{"start":8167.62,"end":8190.066,"text":"我都很期待所以我希望我們公股銀行更要去努力所以我是想說是不是可以在一個月之內能夠提出一個書面報告你們可不可以去想一想如何提升協助我們的族人貸款讓他們能夠順利的獲得投入創業啊農業啊觀光啊文化產業等等這些事業的發展董事長可以嗎可以的好謝謝董事長好謝謝主席好謝謝吳裕華委員"},{"start":8195.762,"end":8215.252,"text":"接著請王世堅委員土地銀行何董事長"},{"start":8227.182,"end":8235.265,"text":"我記得民國94年當時二次經改政府打算把你們釋出20%"},{"start":8255.987,"end":8257.157,"text":"台銀也要釋出20% 當時我在"},{"start":8259.875,"end":8286.848,"text":"立法院 財政委員會我極力反對我認為應該讓土銀 台銀就是成為百分之百關股就是以配合政府的政策那當時政府的目的是說民營化這個會有效率績效也會比較好而且規模才會又更大我認為規模又大那就讓台銀併土銀嘛那一樣維持百分之百關股"},{"start":8288.26,"end":8306.809,"text":"所以我一直對土銀都蠻關注的啦跟你們跟台銀我一直認為這是要有關股銀行的一個基本的規格也就是說要配合政府的政策可是我最近看到你們一些放款的情況我蠻壓抑的就是說中央銀行早就祭出啦這幾十年來他們早就祭出來就是說"},{"start":8317.664,"end":8340.84,"text":"貸款給空地空地貸款不得超過18個月也就是說我們要貸款給建商如果建商你是買這個土地還是要開發18個月也夠你去申請建築執照那開始去動工可以預售啦這18個月一年半那也是跟建築工會"},{"start":8342.912,"end":8371.033,"text":"跟大家共同商議的結論跟各地方政府了解建築之道的申請所以這是對的事情啊但是沒有遵守這一條沒有遵守說貸款給建商的這個空地貸款超過18個月啦你們也不去甩腳也還是擺著讓他爛"},{"start":8372.642,"end":8389.659,"text":"等於擺明了 挑明了 借錢給一些不孝建商讓他去買地 養地 圈地天啊 總共2150億 公營行戶而已喔光九大公營行戶2150億 借給"},{"start":8393.373,"end":8404.705,"text":"一些超額貸款的建商 劣質的建商 他們買地養地圈地等於借他們去炒地皮炒房價這2,150億我們土銀專業的銀行我們竟然佔了1,150億 天啊"},{"start":8417.145,"end":8427.77,"text":"董事長 一千一百五十一多少呢如果當時他買的土地一坪是一百萬他光是這一千一百五十一他可以買十一萬坪的九大公營合物加起來兩千一百五十一可以買二十一萬坪"},{"start":8440.165,"end":8460.781,"text":"那難怪生斗小民再怎麼賺錢存錢永遠追不上房價因為土地都被這些不肖惡劣建商他們搬我們工銀行戶的錢尤其搬你專業的土地銀行的錢拿去買地養地全地罪魁禍首就是你"},{"start":8468.41,"end":8472.192,"text":"所以我覺得不可思議啊我本來對你們期望很高的土銀要進去跟台銀進去一樣那種的考試遠比其他行庫都要更嚴格欸使命感也更重結果成績何時你們不當一回事好啦"},{"start":8495.632,"end":8524.546,"text":"然後最近你們又涉入一條叫太坤建設天啊合作金庫是商業銀行合作金庫做建築融資專業的不動產貸款他們專業絕對不如你專業不如你的合作金庫都知道說哎呦差了一下這一家公司啊這個預售屋賣得太差了"},{"start":8526.314,"end":8538.619,"text":"所以預售的量太小他不敢貸款給他他要貸多少億他本來要跟合庫貸款說這個金額說貸款68億結果合庫不管貸款給他換到你土一你貸給他78億天啊"},{"start":8555.69,"end":8575.424,"text":"78億結果這個案子一樣啊這是一個都更閉案因為賣得太差他還找人頭做假資料結果這個案子被檢調查了已經送法院這已經起訴了這是嚴重的炸彈案所以我不禁對你們土銀"},{"start":8580.612,"end":8590.38,"text":"你們專業的不動產融資你們的評估到底是怎麼樣你竟然輸給合作金庫商業銀行你不覺得這很可恥嗎這很明顯的是一個炸彈案金額78億之多你知道年底到了有多少中小企業嗷嗷待哺"},{"start":8611.425,"end":8634.25,"text":"多少企業簽個三五百萬多少微型公司欸幾十萬這逼死人捏結果你們這麼大把的超報七十八億被他們炸帶帶走啦用假人頭假買賣假都更"},{"start":8640.615,"end":8669.332,"text":"所以董事啊這幾件事還有一個我最後再跟你講一件這個也是建商裡面一個寶啦新復發新復發的黑歷史我相信你們很清楚啊從台中文新愛樂一路下來什麼市政愛樂他的另外一家公司潤濃國家大院一路到高雄港灣一號院文化潤濃這些所有每個工地都出了狀況"},{"start":8671.924,"end":8693.658,"text":"嚴重的是工人摔死好一點的就是寫公案意外火災而已但是這些案子我這邊列了12個案子有不幸達到工人死亡的竟然高達8個之多"},{"start":8696.633,"end":8717.089,"text":"而且不是死一位兩位喔天啊這樣的公司你ESG評估的時候你在評什麼呢把他評什麼啦你不是有ESG表格嗎那這麼糟糕的公司管理治理怎麼會通過呢他"},{"start":8722.054,"end":8751.007,"text":"摔越多工人 死越多工人你借他越多所以ESG你們根本不當一回事啊董事長我知道你可能上來沒多久啦我相信總部長派任你來也一定是希望你能整頓整頓可能有一些問題是你的前任啦他現在也離開這裡了我不曉得是不是他搞的啦但是"},{"start":8752.267,"end":8781.01,"text":"我剛剛跟你說的那幾個情況第一點那幾個情況你回去查你做一個報告給我就是說預期18個月的空地貸款你要如何去收回別的銀行有 也有可是他佔他們總貸款的乘數人家1%你呀 1151 你佔了5%之多 我不要求你0"},{"start":8782.455,"end":8800.229,"text":"我要求你 你至少跟人家其他商業銀行一樣嘛好不好這樣就很浪費了你知道嗎各位報告 你這幾次對我們的指示我們都按照在做所以我們的已經這一年來我們已經收回了將近900億收回900億 收回200億嘛"},{"start":8804.212,"end":8813.477,"text":"沒有那是到上次的時候他每一個月大概收回200億現在數字數字剩下266億到12月的時候只剩下266億因為過去在"},{"start":8821.542,"end":8850.608,"text":"那個委員在講的時候剛好是缺工缺料那時候最嚴重的時候那去年一整年缺工缺料已經減少了以後他們就開始都動工了所以動工了以後使得沒有動工的案件減少的非常的快所以已到12月的話我想我們還當然266億比同業可能還高一點我們還會繼續按照那個委員的指示繼續去改善我想我們可以降到跟同業相當的比率"},{"start":8854.05,"end":8877.41,"text":"第二點就是這個太坤這個炸彈這個嚴重的炸彈案不管法律檢調法院怎麼判但是我們行李土地銀行我們要有態度我們的行政調查我們的行政處分這一定要態度拿出來可不可以而且嚴追他的"},{"start":8878.639,"end":8900.791,"text":"這個抵押物,抵押品,好不好?這一個案子在銀行裡面,這棟都已經都蓋好了而且地主跟那個買的房子的人都已經做分戶了只是還有一部分的漁物還沒賣完,連帶還有一部分的金額剩下來並不是現在的當時的78億,這個在新莊已經整個都蓋好了鋼骨結構的大樓也都蓋好了"},{"start":8903.812,"end":8925.118,"text":"那也都把但是銷售的其差不是嗎那他等於沒辦法分屋貸款你有做嗎你也做沒辦法你大概做一半吧因為這個是一個連貸啦所以分給每一家銀行都會去做所以我們也做了一部分的房貸那剩下的部分他還沒賣的以後還會繼續做這是連貸的部分你統計一下你土銀是主導銀行嘛連貸銀行裡面也是主辦銀行"},{"start":8933.14,"end":8961.018,"text":"第一個主辦銀行本來就要負最大的責任評估的責任第二點你要去計算你貸款給他的就關於分屋貸款的是多少分屋貸款才放心嘛銀行才放心嘛我說你本來的建築融資本來的土地融資那個就是對舊的建商嘛因為他所有轉成分屋貸款蓋好的房子全部都設定在土地銀行所以擔保是十足的是"},{"start":8961.658,"end":8962.058,"text":"蘇清泉委員"},{"start":8982.236,"end":8998.065,"text":"呃不在齁 鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌不在葉仁芝委員 葉仁芝 葉仁芝 葉仁芝不在齁本日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢呃 本次會議做如下決議說明及詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請財政部與"},{"start":9000.146,"end":9018.601,"text":"一週內以書面答覆委員令要求其限者從期約定委員嚴寬恆所提書面職權列入紀錄刊登公報並請財政部以書面答覆中華民國114年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算營業部有關財政部主管台灣土地銀行"},{"start":9020.154,"end":9034.278,"text":"股份有限公司財政部印刷廠及台灣煙酒股份有限公司令擇期繼續處理本次會議議程已經進行完畢堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢並列入紀錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理李燕秀委員所提的書面質詢並列入紀錄刊登公報好 散會 謝謝"},{"start":9055.637,"end":9056.037,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9080.518,"end":9082.02,"text":"中文字幕志愿者"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}