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14:28:57","會議時間":"2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"2.程被提名人明修-立法院第11屆第4會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函送國家通訊傳播委員會委員提名名單，蔣榮先為委員並為主任委員，程明修為委員並為副主任委員，黃葳威及羅慧雯均為委員，請同意案。\n【10月20日（星期一）依序分別審查蔣被提名人榮先、程被提名人明修；10月22日（星期三）依序分別審查黃被提名人葳威、羅被提名人慧雯。】\n【10月20日及22日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.1822187500000005,"end":10.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.430343750000002,"end":10.746593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.27721875,"end":20.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.22596875,"end":28.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.65096875,"end":32.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.90346875,"end":43.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.55159375,"end":46.268468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.352843750000005,"end":54.064718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.570968750000006,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.759718750000005,"end":70.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.45034375,"end":72.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.91409375,"end":90.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.20659375000001,"end":92.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.97846875,"end":94.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.29471875,"end":95.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.32409375,"end":100.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.12471875,"end":102.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.26784375000001,"end":106.78221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.06909375000001,"end":108.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.95909375000001,"end":115.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.02534375,"end":128.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.42846875,"end":143.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.97471875000002,"end":152.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.15909375,"end":156.20909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.20909375000002,"end":156.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.32284375,"end":157.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.33971875,"end":161.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.64284375,"end":163.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.88721875000002,"end":166.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.97534375,"end":173.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.96159375000002,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.43909375,"end":197.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.54846875,"end":201.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.97409375,"end":202.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.27346875,"end":204.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.48409375,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.83784375000002,"end":216.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.07721875000001,"end":245.14034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.35971875,"end":245.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.49034375000002,"end":267.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.29284375000003,"end":269.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.41471875,"end":272.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.49034375,"end":274.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.56596875,"end":279.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.54409375,"end":281.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.14721875000004,"end":309.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.13034375,"end":313.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.36159375,"end":319.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.84596875,"end":327.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.13159375000004,"end":330.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.52784375000005,"end":339.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.36596875000004,"end":342.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.72846875000005,"end":351.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.07721875000004,"end":373.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.54221875,"end":379.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.87034375,"end":380.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.28784375000004,"end":383.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.15659375,"end":384.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.99596875000003,"end":387.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.03784375000004,"end":388.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.30346875000004,"end":389.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.24846875000003,"end":391.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.17221875,"end":402.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.30971875,"end":420.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.31534375,"end":453.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.74909375000004,"end":453.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.79971875,"end":453.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.833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謝謝主席有請我們陳副主委 貝廷銘教授好 謝謝 因為應該是第一次見面"},{"start":21.28,"end":36.783,"text":"那我特別有看到您的這次報告的一個包括學經理你過去的一個坦白講在各政府一個機關擔任了很多不管是行政法方面甚至評審委員那這個部分特別看到你是行政法的一個權威學者"},{"start":37.404,"end":60.643,"text":"我真的覺得蠻開心的但是這種開心是一則喜一則以憂因為我們過去我個人才有三年多的時間有幸跟另外一位行政法的權威學者在NCC這個很多的事情說爭爭吵吵或者鬧得當年NCC當時陳耀祥主委那我也覺得"},{"start":61.784,"end":86.839,"text":"同樣是行政法的一個權威學者本來就是依法行政嘛很多東西本來就是依法行政但是我發覺有幾個問題第一個是你覺得在NCC作為這個不管是傳播廣播媒體甚至這個電信相關的一個部分對於整個媒體的這個環境在這幾年NCC最高主管機關獨立機關你覺得營造的整體的一個環境你滿不滿意"},{"start":91.261,"end":100.084,"text":"你作為一個你還沒有不是一般的民眾你是教授陳教授你覺得整個看到這樣的一個媒體環境你滿意嗎每個人的滿意值可能不太一樣對用你的標準我認為監理機關在這邊他會面臨到相當多的監理的困境這是確實存在著"},{"start":117.048,"end":142.92,"text":"好 你這話說得滿實在的滿實在的這個部分確實上有很多的一個困境但是我想請教一下那您又是什麼樣的一個機緣那我們知道像您的學經歷真的是像千里馬那博樂是誰是誰引薦有這樣的一個機緣來擔任我們NCC的副主委的提名人這個是誰引薦的 機緣在哪裡能不能說一下"},{"start":146.541,"end":173.148,"text":"這個我印象裡面是年底的時候就行政院這邊直接有同仁聯繫我但我中間這個環節我確實不太了解就行政院聯絡你但我在這邊直接跟你建議如果真的經過了這樣的一個這個審查的過程投票的過程那我真是覺得因為過去我覺得所謂的獨立機關不獨立最主要很多都是這種人脈"},{"start":174.088,"end":197.449,"text":"伯樂恩人這種的一個觀念在裡面因為你沒辦法你沒辦法直接說我專家學者我自己就跳進來變一個獨立機關你會有很多人引薦你會有很多的包括你的伯樂那我是在這裡真的跟你建議我不知道你同不同意啦不管是引薦你的伯樂也好或者說你的這個所謂恩人也好那但是你擔任"},{"start":198.604,"end":216.015,"text":"如果擔任這個機關副主委是一個獨立的一個機關你覺得你未來會不會針對這些幫過或者引薦的人他對你的影響你覺得你能夠去避免他對你NCT專業上面的影響嗎"},{"start":217.779,"end":245.431,"text":"謝謝委員的指教在我被徵詢同時同意擔任這樣的獨立機關的工作時這個問題已經不是問題我認為擔任獨立機關的委員他的先決條件就是他自身必須要保持在事務決定上面的獨立性所以這點也請委員放心好"},{"start":246.531,"end":269.796,"text":"但我其實不太放心不太放心的原因是因為我們經歷之前的NCC換屆有小換屆那整個過程中確實我們覺得有獨立專業的但確實很多的事情也真的被一雙隱形的手在影響但到底它影響從哪些管道那這個部分我們是真的是一個期許那接下來的一個部分我想請教"},{"start":273.827,"end":296.775,"text":"這個你剛剛特別說啦對於一個案子不管是中天的案子今天是案子你要做一個怎麼樣的一個說明不夠精準還是盡量依法嘛那事實上在今年的3月6號我們最高行政法院針對112年度上市419號判決419判決之後我看你給各黨的回應你大概也有看過了"},{"start":297.535,"end":318.674,"text":"那這個其中有一個蠻重要的一個因素當結果 結果是最高行政法院覺得把這個判決原判決把它廢棄了把這個case又把它丟回了 被高刑等於說大概是重新審理吧那他 我只想這中間的引用一個最具體的理由是說"},{"start":320.695,"end":328.738,"text":"這種評分表的一個變更譬如說我們右邊我簡單來說未來營運計畫佔60%然後你能不能換賬你就按照這個把它做過來右邊是評鑑結果修正改善營運報告佔40%但是差107年跟109年"},{"start":340.422,"end":363.194,"text":"到中天案子送進來的時候他就用新的法規而且最後他在右邊的內部控管機制跟自律從原本就是你知道嗎有時候要考大學高中生在準備從高一就開始準備高一就看聯考的制度我要考英文系台大英文英文加50%"},{"start":364.836,"end":384.497,"text":"我要考什麼樣的一個系這個部分什麼東西有加分在過去的聯招制度到現在都有加分的項目那大家三年這些學生我就乖乖老老實實去針對這樣的項目來去準備那可是到了要換照的時候說不好意思啊就是換了"},{"start":386.019,"end":402.758,"text":"整個換了而且有些機制變成他一個整個這個執照就不發給他的所以這個部分最高行政法院你依法行政那在這樣的一個案子你自己的感覺怎麼樣如果因為現在還不是你是提名人而已"},{"start":403.88,"end":420.642,"text":"你可以有兩種答案第一個就你一個專家學者你就是最高行政法院都這樣的說了現在確實也打回來打回來可能重新要開始雙方再去走一波現在但是你對於這個部分你的看法如何"},{"start":422.044,"end":437.365,"text":"這裡面所涉及到的可能有法律面向的問題在中央法規標準法18條的規定裡面在決定程序當中法規的變動是否要重新或者是重修的這個爭議那另外在"},{"start":438.186,"end":453.038,"text":"容許管制機關有寬泛的管制材料的情況之下在總額之下的細項的權重的調整是否能夠被一樣的尊重這可能也是法院在這邊表示不同的想法"},{"start":453.786,"end":477.427,"text":"好的 我也希望像這樣的一個 這個你是行政法的一個權威嘛一法論法 一法行政嘛所以最高行政法院 不是我說的啦最高行政法院我們也希望你們真的能夠尊重一點如果對於已經覺得有問題的不要再這個硬拗啦如果你有其他理由 你自己再提啦那最後我要真的是如果你們有機會進NCC的話"},{"start":478.928,"end":495.999,"text":"我們真的是希望對於剛剛問你台灣整個一個媒體的一個現況其實從多元 億元早期可能國民黨時代也是億元然後慢慢變多元現在就我個人看法是大概現在不管是政論節目主要的媒體"},{"start":496.86,"end":518.186,"text":"都慢慢慢慢可能有八成都在說一類的話我不知道在NCC未來能夠做什麼第二個在單篇的一個媒體的報導國家重要新聞或者重要的新聞或者社會重要的行為會因為一家媒體覺得我不想報某一個人即使他是大家關注的新聞他也不報 零"},{"start":519.466,"end":541.62,"text":"他完全可以不報或者有一些另外一方的他就給他從頭報到尾我倒是覺得你剛剛講一句話我是很認同在光譜有不同但對於新聞媒體它一個本質 它的天職對於有新聞媒體的這個部分我們也希望你們未來只要有機會的話能夠把它做得更好 謝謝謝謝魯明哲委員發言完畢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}