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才能夠落實"},{"start":384.71,"end":399.662,"text":"本席在上一次總質詢跟院長達成的共識第三個就是棒球博物館我想部長你也很支持我知道你私下有告訴我你也很支持但是支持一定要有方向"},{"start":400.382,"end":418.277,"text":"你一定要有態度而且要有步驟什麼時候要開始所以呢今年的預算我一樣看不到那院長部長今年的預算裡面是不是可以開始著手有初步的計畫譬如說開始找地啦開始要進行相關的可行性評估啊有沒有這樣的計畫"},{"start":420.333,"end":447.462,"text":"明年開始我覺得應該是整體運動的博物館我們希望說在保留這些過去我們前輩們的所有運動前輩們的所有的文物那包含我們之前去到了花蓮我們也去積極的去做文物的搜尋跟保留那我覺得這對我們運動員來講都是非常有認同感的"},{"start":448.302,"end":475.753,"text":"認同感的當然在博物館的部分我們希望說在最近我們會積極去做來不管是找地還是這部分我們都有慢慢在規劃部長我只是提醒你這個理念跟方向我想部長你是運動員出身絕對不會有問題但現在的問題是我們面對政府預算有限運動部是賴總統重要的方向"},{"start":476.601,"end":502.616,"text":"那怎麼樣在部會當中跟行政院能夠爭取到你要落實你的想法跟理念的預算我想這個是一個你面對的挑戰那其次就是你要很多的場館場地甚至都在地方政府你怎麼中央跟地方做好協調能夠把事情做好我想這個就是剛剛部長講為什麼當部長不容易他的挑戰在哪裡"},{"start":503.756,"end":530.412,"text":"國家史上從中華民國史上我想沒有比這個階段更重視體育更重視運動也沒有像國人至少從我出生到現在國人沒有像此刻大家那麼愛運動你看那個健身房一間一間的開你看大家對於國際的賽事連過去台灣明明足球不是太熱門但你看看過去可以做的"},{"start":531.119,"end":545.026,"text":"現在都不可以做了過去英雄苟且的現在都不可以 為什麼因為民眾太重視了所以你看這個足球協會的理事長也要下台了這在過去都不會發生的啦他就坐在那裡就不會動了"},{"start":546.343,"end":571.767,"text":"但現在不一樣了所以部長你的挑戰就在這裡這些都是所有的體育迷所有的國人期盼運動部能夠在這些事項過去成科沒有辦法改變的事項不管是國人過去不重視或者政府不重視那現在都不是了總統重視民眾更重視所以這些問題都挑戰著運動部部長你同意嗎"},{"start":572.813,"end":587.179,"text":"我認為這個民眾參與運動的這個部分風氣越來越好那我們當然希望說有更多的民眾來參與我們運動讓更多人看見運動可以 那明年就三件事情一定要記住本席就是你沒有監督我就是繼續問啦"},{"start":588.439,"end":604.859,"text":"第一個就是棒球博物館第二個就是運動場館的設施改的興建特別是棒球場館第三個就是自由車場好不好這三個部長你要記住下次見面還是這三個題目如果你沒有進度的話我還是這三個題目"},{"start":606.897,"end":631.45,"text":"謝謝委員 這個場面非常難得一位是帶領國家棒球得到世界金牌的一個是兩度奧運金牌的部長在這裡對話表示我國的棒球政策從這裡開始應該要有更強力的支持政府一定會來支持年輕朋友跟國人最能夠團結一致的運動賽事我們全力把它推動所以場地的設備一定要先把它健全起來不然運動部會做到謝謝院長"},{"start":632.571,"end":650.507,"text":"今天因為適用立委的身份所以李部長一定感受到本席比較嚴厲啦平常當會長的時候我都在拜託你的今天角色不一樣我必須要扮演好監督你們的角色那接下來呢 部長請回我請那個金管會跟經濟部麻煩請金管會經濟部長備詢"},{"start":657.557,"end":684.565,"text":"院長 這個關稅的協議跟美方的這個談判我們還持續在進行當中政府院長率領的談判團隊還一直跟美方保持很積極的正面的接觸那整個景氣產業這個產業在國際上發展的這種集中度非常的高就像全球現在半導體跟AI非常的這個"},{"start":686.657,"end":707.682,"text":"成長力道非常強大台灣其實反映到台灣也可以明顯發現所以我們有整個產業發展趨勢沒有辦法均衡的問題再加上美中貿易談判的問題讓我們台中我們的工具機產業跟金屬加工的這些製造業面臨很大的挑戰"},{"start":708.542,"end":732.105,"text":"那我也看了所有的資料我們也很支持包括這些相關的政策包括這些相關的法規甚至剛剛通過的這個5700億的這個預算本席都非常支持但是這個支持我想主委跟部長都有提出一些方法但是這個落實到基層特別是落實到我們"},{"start":733.431,"end":757.91,"text":"這個台中最多的微型企業他可能員工人數十人上下十幾個甚至更小的他們會面臨到很多訊息的不對等啦譬如說我知道經濟部廣布長你們有成立馬上辦中心對不對馬上辦中心很重要一項業務就是協調銀行不可以雨天收傘是不是"},{"start":758.82,"end":787.367,"text":"那現在到底有多少雨天被收傘打電話到馬上辦中心說他被雨天收傘從成立到現在或者說從美中四月份到現在我們是一再的跟銀行公會一再講就是說基本上他如果繳息正常就待展延的話是可以的自動就會展延六個月到一年所以基本上他是不會收傘"},{"start":788.346,"end":807.937,"text":"我知道政策不會收閃就像很多我們在規定我們在做相關住宅貸款的時候我們也要求過去已經開始房子已經買到的不可以一定要持續給他貸還是很多這種案子所以我在談的其實不是政策不對也不是我們政府不關心"},{"start":808.457,"end":830.454,"text":"而是政策落實到中小企業裡面是不是中小企業他知道這個訊息第二個有沒有這樣的還是持續因為本席作為民意代表我在民間還是多多少少會遇到他很擔心他被雨天收散因為銀行已經找他要談縮減他的額度甚至就有貸款要還清的時候我們現在規定也可以展延半年"},{"start":831.533,"end":853.78,"text":"那這些到底你們再透過馬上辦中心或者透過銀行端兩邊你們都應該去徹底的去了解是不是有這樣的案例案例怎麼處理我們來了解可以嗎可以做到嗎所以本席剛剛才問你們說你們成立馬上辦中心一定如果他真的被收散他就問嘛他就會打電話來這個才是我們對政策落實到特別是微型企業"},{"start":854.68,"end":867.098,"text":"上市公司上公司你都不用擔心他們的資源很多但我們這種台中這種小型微型的企業這個才是大家會覺得為什麼他們總是覺得政府的政策照顧不到他們"},{"start":867.728,"end":894.804,"text":"那就是因為這個中間的落差沒有辦法把它填補沒有填補的結果他就永遠感受不到政策的善意跟預算的善意這個兩位可以做得到沒問題可以給本席一個報告到底你們的平台上面有多少這種案例每一個案例怎麼被對待跟處理本席希望了解這樣好不好這個我一定要代表我們中小企業在這個質詢台上來替他們講話"},{"start":896.552,"end":920.404,"text":"有一些個案可能是因為其他的因素那我希望說我們在銀行端不管是公股的還是民間銀行這個時間點能夠盡量的放寬採取信任長期合作的方式來協助業者這個我一直要求我們的如果這些個案大家不明就理他永遠都在談政府預算沒有到位政策沒有到位就是因為那幾個個案"},{"start":921.826,"end":930.91,"text":"所以我本席為什麼會要求兩位部長跟要追蹤到那個個案這樣好不好最後一個小問題院長那個11月發一萬塊時間定了沒有我們盡快該"},{"start":949.5,"end":951.648,"text":"好 謝謝蔡其桑委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":35,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（9時1分）謝謝主席。請卓院長跟運動部李部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長、運動部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：蔡委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：院長早安、部長早安。部長上任幾天了？"],["李部長洋：一個月多一點。"],["蔡委員其昌：感覺怎麼樣？"],["李部長洋：滿刺激的。"],["蔡委員其昌：拿奧運金牌比較容易，還是當運動部長比較容易？"],["李部長洋：都不容易。"],["蔡委員其昌：都不容易？如果硬要比較出一個，你喜歡哪一個？"],["李部長洋：我都滿喜歡挑戰的。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，那本席就給你一些挑戰。","本席上一次總質詢時，運動部還沒有成立，所以當時的教育部跟卓院長都有承諾一些事項，但是因為有一個很大的變化，這個變化就是財政收支劃分法修正通過，讓中央補助地方政府興建體育設施的能量大減。院長，你記得我們談過優化全民運動與賽會環境計畫，這是113年到116年的計畫，這個計畫的經費總共是64億，其中興建自由車場的部分，按照當時體育署的規劃是要興建高雄、臺南跟臺中3個場館，計畫上也寫3案，這3案當時的預算是不足的，所以就繼續進行溝通協調。部長，你接手之後，這3個案子要不要繼續做？"],["李部長洋：跟委員報告，我們認為現行國際賽事是250公尺的賽道……"],["蔡委員其昌：對！"],["李部長洋：在臺灣是330公尺的賽道……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有錯，不合國際標準！"],["李部長洋：對，所以我們運動部希望站在保護運動員權益的立場來爭取。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，你提院了。院長，運動部有提院，希望行政院來協助。院長，這3個案子要不要繼續來推動？"],["卓院長榮泰：運動部現在的考量是能夠跟國際接軌，這對我們的選手絕對是一種正面的幫助，所以在這個情況底下，我們願意排除各種財政困難，極力地全力來協助。"],["蔡委員其昌：院長，為什麼我持續追問這個案子？是因為我在今年的預算呈現上看不到我們要繼續推動這3個自行車場的案子，所以才利用今天特別來問你。因為預算已經送到立法院來了，如果年底通過，明年就要實施了，但是本席並沒有看到這3個案子的預算，所以今天才會來請教院長，是不是明年我們還有其他預算、可能不是用這個預算科目來支出的情況底下，明年就會開始推動，包括先來發包規劃設計？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在優化全民運動賽會會場這個項下有編了預算，包括臺中是清水還是……"],["蔡委員其昌：對，在清水，在本席的故鄉。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，有提出嘛！應該會納入相關，如果沒有的話，我看運動部有沒有其他預算可以來支應。"],["蔡委員其昌：好。院長，本席給你建議，三個案子一定要推，就如同部長所講的，這個沒有辦法跟國際接軌，而且體育署規劃那麼久，三個地點都是地方政府同意、支持要做的，但因為收支劃分法的改變，所以你們的重點在於跟地方政府溝通，那麼支付的比例是什麼？行政院不可以改變態度，三個案子一定都要做，因為如同部長講的，很重要！國家在推動運動場館改善的決心沒有改變，但你把中央的錢都拿光了，當然我重新跟你談我中央願意出、我有多少錢、希望地方政府負擔多少。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：應該要朝這樣的方向來做，中央絕對不可以退縮，因為這是態度。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我們會按照財政的級次來……"],["蔡委員其昌：對、對。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是中央還是願意全力、負擔大一點的……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有錯，部長跟院長，這是中央的態度，我們支持體育，如果運動部成立，第一件案子首先自行車場就不做了，這不是笑話嗎？","第二個，有關棒球場館的部分，上一次我們也謝謝院長支持，組一軍的場館支持了3億，這場館說一軍，其實就是支持地方政府啦，因為這些場館都是地方政府的。另外，其他的棒球場館，總共加起來，我們支持了九個場館，也就是我們支持了九個地方政府去修繕場館，本席看到這個案子，預算也沒有增加，但是上一次我也跟院長報告過澄清湖球場的LED螢幕，不但小，而且幾乎是看不到了，這個其實是很荒謬，臺灣是科技大廠，我們的面板實在是製造能力全世界有名的，但我們自己的運動場館，一個LED的螢幕，我先不講大小，它已經夠小了，而且還已經完全衰退、看不到內文了。所以上次我有跟院長提，希望來支持高雄地方政府把場館的LED面板改過，部長上任之後，院長，這應該沒有改變吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會改變，因為一個場館如果有一個大的螢幕，看起來就是滿科技感的。"],["蔡委員其昌：這個也是啦，不分藍綠，這也是地方政府要部分負擔，這不是中央，場館是地方政府的嘛！但是方向一定要做，好不好？這個不要改變。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，再請部長來研究看看，如何儘速協助澄清湖棒球場改善。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，部長，這是挑戰嘛，就是這些問題，你都要去溝通、協調，才能夠落實本席在上一次總質詢跟院長達成的共識。","第三個就是棒球博物館，我想部長也很支持，我知道你私下有告訴我，你也很支持，但是支持一定要有方向，你一定要有態度，而且要有步驟，什麼時候要開始。可是今年的預算，我一樣看不到。院長、部長，今年的預算裡面是不是可以開始著手，有初步的計畫，譬如開始找地、開始進行相關的可行性評估，明年開始有沒有這樣的計畫？"],["李部長洋：跟委員您報告，其實目前在棒球，我覺得應該是整體運動的博物館，我們希望保留這些過去我們前輩們的所有文物，包含我們之前去到了花蓮，我們也積極去做文物的蒐尋跟保留，我覺得這對我們運動員來講，都是非常有認同感的。"],["蔡委員其昌：對。"],["李部長洋：當然在博物館的部分，最近我們會積極去做，不管是找地還是其他等等，這部分我們都有慢慢在規劃。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長，我只是提醒你理念跟方向，我想部長你是運動員出身，絕對不會有問題，但現在的問題是，我們面對政府預算有限，運動部是賴總統重要的方向，怎麼樣在部會當中跟行政院能夠爭取到要落實你的想法跟理念的預算，我想這一個是你面對的挑戰。其次，很多場館、場地都在地方政府，中央怎麼跟地方做好協調，把事情做好？我想這就是剛剛部長講的，為什麼當部長不容易，他的挑戰在哪裡。中華民國國家史上，我想沒有比現在這個階段更重視體育、更重視運動，至少從我出生到現在，國人沒有像此刻那麼愛運動，你看健身房一間一間開，大家對於國際賽事，連過去臺灣明明不太熱門的足球，過去可以做的，現在都不可以做；過去因循苟且的，現在都不可以，為什麼？因為民眾太重視了！所以你看足球協會理事長要下臺了，這在過去是都不會發生的，他就坐在那裡不動了，但現在不一樣，所以部長你的挑戰就在這裡，這些都是所有體育迷、所有國人企盼運動部能夠做的事項，過去的沉痾、沒有辦法改變的事項，過去國人不重視，或者政府不重視，但現在都不是了，總統重視，民眾更重視，所以這些問題都挑戰著運動部，部長，你同意嗎？"],["李部長洋：我認為現在民眾參與運動的風氣越來越好，我們當然希望有更多民眾來參與運動，讓更多人看見運動。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，可以，但明年有三件事情你一定要記住，你沒有進度，本席就會繼續問。第一，棒球博物館；第二，運動場館、設施的興建，特別是棒球場館；第三，自由車場。這三個部長要記住，下一次見面如果你沒有進度，我還是這三個題目。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我想這個場面非常難得，一位是帶領國家棒球得到世界金牌的會長，一個是兩度奧運金牌的部長，兩邊在這裡對話，表示我國的棒球政策從這裡開始，應該會有更強力的支持，政府也一定會支持年輕朋友跟國人最能夠團結一致的運動賽事，我們全力推動，所以場地的設備一定要先健全起來，我想運動部會做到。"],["蔡委員其昌：謝謝院長，今天因為我是用立委身分質詢，所以李部長一定感受到本席比較嚴厲……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，不會。"],["蔡委員其昌：平常當會長的時候，我都在拜託你的……"],["李部長洋：沒有，沒有。"],["蔡委員其昌：今天角色不一樣，我必須扮演好監督你們的角色，部長請回。接下來我請金管會跟經濟部。"],["主席：麻煩請金管會主委和經濟部部長備詢。"],["蔡委員其昌：院長，我們跟美方的關稅談判，持續在進行當中……"],["卓院長榮泰：鄭副院長率領的談判團隊還一直跟美方保持很積極、正面的接觸。"],["蔡委員其昌：是，整個產業在國際上發展的集中度非常高，就像全球現在半導體跟AI的成長力道非常強大，其實反映到臺灣也可以很明顯發現，所以我們有整個產業發展趨勢沒有辦法均衡的問題，再加上美中貿易談判，讓我們臺中的工具機產業和金屬加工製造業面臨很大的挑戰，我看了所有資料，我們也很支持這些相關的政策和相關的法規，甚至剛剛通過的5,700億預算，本席都非常支持，而這個支持，我想主委跟部長都有提出一些方法，但要落實到基層，特別是落實到我們臺中最多的微型企業，他們可能員工人數十人上下、十幾個，甚至更小，卻面臨很多訊息不對等的問題，譬如我知道經濟部龔部長你們有成立馬上辦中心，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：馬上辦中心很重要的一項業務，就是協調銀行不可以雨天收傘，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：現在到底有多少雨天被收傘的？從成立到現在，或者從美中談判4月份到現在，有多少人打電話到馬上辦中心說他被雨天收傘？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，我們一再跟銀行講，事實上銀行公會也表示，基本上如果繳息正常，舊貸展延是可以的，自動就會展延六個月到一年，所以基本上是不會收傘的。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，我知道，政策不會收傘，就像在做住宅相關貸款的時候，我們也要求，過去房子已經買到的不可以，一定要持續給他貸款，還是很多這種案子嘛！所以我在談的其實不是政策不對，也不是我們政府不關心，而是政策落實到中小企業裡面，是不是中小企業知道這個訊息。","第二個，有沒有這樣的？還是持續有？因為本席作為民意代表，我在民間還是多多少少會遇到他很擔心他被雨天收傘，因為銀行已經找他，要談縮減他的額度，甚至舊有貸款要還清的時候，我們現在的規定也可以展延半年嘛！那這些到底你們透過馬上辦中心，或者透過銀行端，兩邊你們都應該澈底的去了解啦！是不是有這樣的案例，那案例怎麼處理，可以嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們來瞭解。"],["蔡委員其昌：可以做到嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以本席剛剛才問你們說，你們成立馬上辦中心，如果他真的被收傘，他就問嘛！他就會打電話來，這個才是我們對政策落實到……特別是微型企業，上市公司、上櫃公司你都不用擔心，他們的資源很多，但我們臺中這種小型、微型的企業，這個才是大家會覺得為什麼他們總是覺得政府的政策照顧不到他們，那就是因為中間的落差沒有辦法把它填補，沒有填補的結果，他就永遠感受不到政策的善意跟預算的善意，這個兩位可以做得到吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒問題。"],["蔡委員其昌：可以啦？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以。"],["蔡委員其昌：給本席一個報告，到底你們的平臺上面有多少這種案例，那每一個案例怎麼被對待跟處理，本席希望了解，這樣好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：好的。"],["蔡委員其昌：這個我一定要代表我們的中小企業在質詢臺上來替他們講話。"],["卓院長榮泰：有一些個案可能是因為其他的因素。"],["蔡委員其昌：是、是、是。"],["卓院長榮泰：那我希望我們在銀行端，不管是公股的，還是民間銀行，這個時間點能夠儘量的放寬，採取秉持信任、長期合作的方式來協助業者，這個我一直要求我們的部會要做到。"],["蔡委員其昌：如果這些個案大家不明就裡，他永遠都在談政府預算沒有到位、政策沒有到位，就是因為那幾個個案，所以本席為什麼會要求兩位部長要追蹤到個案，這樣好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：最後一個小問題，院長，11月發1萬塊的時間訂了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們儘快，總統公告之後，我們馬上做後續的進行，我也希望越快越好。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，詐騙集團的問題要處理啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：這個會列為首要……"],["蔡委員其昌：用1萬塊在進行詐騙……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是過去所沒有遇到的。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，要加強防範一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：防詐的問題我們列為首要優先。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡其昌委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請洪孟楷委員質詢，陳素月委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","蔡其昌","洪孟楷","陳素月","王育敏","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇清泉","張宏陸","邱鎮軍","吳沛憶","馬文君","廖偉翔","林月琴","游顥"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-10-21"],"gazette_id":"1148002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148002_00006","1148002_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148002_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}