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日本 韓國他們的佔地稅率是15%然後手工具也是一樣我們的競爭對手跟我們差不多"},{"start":106.15,"end":121.262,"text":"水滸金越南跟我們的競爭對手我們的稅率是差不多重機重電重電的部分我們的對手是歐盟他的暫定稅率是比我們還低"},{"start":122.852,"end":143.365,"text":"我們20%他們15%塑膠當然我們的對手是墨西哥那麼他們是25%我們剛好比他們少一點點我會提出這個就是說我們要實質下去盤整我們要怎麼幫他也就是我們要先讓他"},{"start":144.724,"end":173.552,"text":"有同等的競爭力是的對不對就是說我們比不過人家的競爭力的部分關稅的部分我們要先把這個Gap先給他安心也就是一個標準比如說他受衝擊的可能是5%的關稅我們怎麼利用我們這些特別預算一些科目他需求的科目把它補足這個Gap那麼他就會安心"},{"start":174.895,"end":187.16,"text":"我覺得我們要有一個標準然後有一個堆疊有一個談論的空間這樣子我們在所謂的任性特別預算才能夠實質發揮作用部長你認為呢是那我們現在大概是利用"},{"start":194.523,"end":216.597,"text":"因為沒有辦法直接就用這關稅補貼當然但是我們用升級轉型對比如說升級轉型你太久換新機器設備我們就有補助最高是40%然後還有你貸款貸款的部分我們利息補貼給你但是部長有時候他現在未必可以他的機器太久換新了"},{"start":218.42,"end":235.257,"text":"他也可以加裝一些升級轉型的智慧化比如說AI相關的軟體設備可是當他要裝設這些緩不濟急耶緩不濟急耶另外就是我們還有訂單上的一些協助比如說他要去參展我們給予補助而且金額加大"},{"start":236.881,"end":254.301,"text":"那類似這樣的部長你知道你講這些其實會讓人家感覺有點落差因為我們現在一定要給他先有競爭力去拼搏對不對可是你所說的這些是在後續的所以貸款是最重要的啦"},{"start":258.194,"end":268.791,"text":"是 貸款也是有對不對貸款才是最重要可是你知道嗎 信用保證跟利息補助可是貸款銀行通常都會要求要看你的訂單"},{"start":270.795,"end":290.8,"text":"那我的訂單都受到影響了你還要看我的訂單所以為什麼我們要編這個差不多將近100億的這個去爭取訂單除了美國的訂單之外我們額外的訂單也要去爭取好啊 問題是這些訂單要怎麼給他們有信心說我可以爭取到這個訂單"},{"start":295.909,"end":308.201,"text":"所以就是說因為如果啦如果我們出去跟人家搶訂單的話單純只是價格跟如果遇到是東南亞跟中國的話的確是比較困難但是台灣的品質是不錯的"},{"start":309.085,"end":336.657,"text":"所以啊 你知道嗎我很感動的是很多廠商都跟我講你只要讓我有同等的競爭力我們就對東西輸了因為我們的競爭一定會搶贏我們競爭就是這個競爭力因為光這個關稅差在5%或是%差在3%這個部分他們的競爭力光開出來的單價就沒辦法去取得訂單了啊"},{"start":338.513,"end":359.153,"text":"你懂嗎你要了解現在廠商他們內心的想法沒錯所以我還說你到底任性特別預算可以給他們多少的期待你們漢布隆東開了很多你看我們有460億的支持產業可是我看得到吃得到嗎"},{"start":360.236,"end":376.429,"text":"一定可以啊 我們現在申請的案件已經有1200多件我們在審查可是1200多件是不是真的可以讓他們在這一次關稅有辦法拿到一個同等的競爭力這才是最重要的"},{"start":377.19,"end":398.49,"text":"部長所以我希望你們去盤點的是不是只看到說哇你看我現在有1200多家來申請可是你要去了解這1200多家是因為沒辦法去縫你們這個支持產業的需求因為我沒辦法因為你通過了我去縫你這個需求可是這個需求真正可以讓我"},{"start":399.671,"end":426.709,"text":"跟人家有競爭力可以去跟人家徵訂單的一個條件嗎對 所以 鮑委員所以我們為什麼會成立了這個北中南東的這個輔導團主動的去了解他們企業需要我們真正的協助是在哪一個地方所以部長 這才是重要也就是說你要去了解他們真的受到影響的問題是什麼"},{"start":429.434,"end":455.451,"text":"沒錯你現在460億支持產業很清楚寫在這裡那有需要的人來爭取可是爭取完之後他真的是有這樣的一個天平可以去跟人家競爭嗎這才是我們在這一次任性特別預算我們的重點我們要給我們的產業是有一個同等競爭力去跟人家競爭"},{"start":456.832,"end":471.08,"text":"我們的條件一定比人家好我們的給人家的信心指數也一定比人家高可是當我在不同的一個關稅的平台當中我講話就小聲啊"},{"start":473.104,"end":499.89,"text":"我講話就小聲啊可是當我能夠在政府支持我有同等的競爭力我就不一樣了所以我才在講你當這個3%的gap 5%的gap這個部分你怎麼利用我們輔導團去協助他們這才是重要我的標準已經定在這裡嘛我依照我的競爭對手"},{"start":502.11,"end":527.717,"text":"的一個關稅跟我們台灣的關稅我差在哪裡我不是叫你直接補貼他5%不可能嘛可是你可以用我們現在的一些支持產業的一些狀況去協助他盤點之後去補足這個GAP一個標準甚至在我們金融支持的部分給予更多的力量當我們政府輔導團給他一個保證"},{"start":532.868,"end":549.457,"text":"銀行都比較趕啊可以啊 對不對沒有問題不然銀行根本不敢嘛銀行第一時間就要看你的訂單我就是沒訂單我不想要來請出政府的合作我們輔導團會把我們的那個信保機制同仁一併的加進去這個很重要"},{"start":550.137,"end":578.482,"text":"所以部长我们关心的是当我们预算过了之后我们是不是真正的可以协助到这些中小企业跟传统产业这个也是我们最关心的这才是重要所以我们希望的是有一个比较直接的盘点有一个比较直接的协助而且有直接的让他们有感的方向部长这个再拜托谢谢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":130,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時34分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：我們再請龔部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：陳委員早安。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我今天要跟你討論的議題，當時在韌性預算還沒過之前，我也用同樣的議題跟我們的行政院院長就教過、討論過。也就是說，我們要怎麼用韌性特別預算協助重要的產業渡過難關？","部長，其實這次重要的是關稅，我們能不能讓大家有競爭力？也就是說，當我們受影響的產業……我們對手的暫訂稅率到底是多少？如果它的稅率都比我們高，基本上，我們還保有競爭力；如果我們的暫訂稅率比我們的對手還高的話，我們的競爭力當然就會萎縮，所以我們必須把韌性特別預算好好地就這些產業別做一些盤整。","比如說工具機，工具機在臺灣的稅率是20%再疊加，然後我們主要的競爭對手是德國、日本、韓國，他們的暫訂稅率是15%；然後手工具也是一樣，我們的競爭對手跟我們差不多；水五金的部分，越南是我們的競爭對手，我們的稅率是差不多；重電的部分，我們的對手是歐盟，它的暫訂稅率比我們還低，我們是20%，他們是15%；塑膠方面，我們的對手當然是墨西哥，他們是25%，我們剛好比他們少一點點。","我會提出這個就是說，我們要實質下去盤整，我們要怎麼幫忙？也就是，我們要先讓它有同等的競爭力，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們比不過人家競爭力的部分，在關稅的部分我們要先把這個gap……先給它安心，也就是一個標準。比如說，它受到衝擊的可能是5%的關稅，我們要怎麼利用特別預算的一些科目、它有需求的科目，把它補足這個gap，那麼它就會安心。我覺得我們要有一個標準，然後有一個堆疊、有一個談論的空間，這樣我們在所謂的韌性特別預算上才能夠實質發揮作用。部長，你認為呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。我們現在大概是利用……因為沒有辦法直接用這個關稅補貼……"],["陳委員亭妃：當然！"],["龔部長明鑫：但是我們用升級轉型。"],["陳委員亭妃：對。"],["龔部長明鑫：如果用升級轉型，你有汰舊換新機器設備，我們就有補助，最高是40%。然後還有貸款，在貸款的部分，我們利息補貼給你……"],["陳委員亭妃：但是部長，有時候它現在的機器未必可以汰舊換新啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：它也可以加裝一些升級轉型的智慧化……譬如說AI相關的軟體設備。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是它要裝設這些是緩不濟急的耶！"],["龔部長明鑫：另外就是，我們還有訂單上的一些協助，比如它要去參展，我們就給予補助，而且金額加大，類似這樣子。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，你知道你講這些其實會讓人感覺有點落差喔！因為我們現在一定要給它先有競爭力去拚搏，對不對？可是你所說的這些是在後續的，所以貸款才是最重要的啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：是，貸款也是有補……"],["陳委員亭妃：對不對？貸款才是最重要的。可是你知道嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：有信用保證跟利息補助。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是貸款銀行通常都要求看你的訂單耶！我的訂單都受到影響了，你還要看我的訂單！"],["龔部長明鑫：這就是為什麼我們要編差不多將近100億去爭取訂單，除了美國的訂單之外，我們額外的訂單也要去爭取。"],["陳委員亭妃：好啊！問題是，要怎麼讓他們有信心去爭取到這些訂單？"],["龔部長明鑫：所以就是說，如果我們出去跟人家搶訂單的話，單純只是價格跟……如果遇到的是東南亞跟中國的話，的確是比較困難，但是臺灣的品質是不錯的，差異化的能力也很強……"],["陳委員亭妃：所以啊！你知道嗎？我很感動的是，很多廠商都跟我講，你只要讓我有同等的競爭力，我們絕對不怕輸，因為我們的訂單一定會搶贏人，我們怕的就是競爭力，因為光關稅差在5%或是差在3%，關於這個部分，他們的競爭力光開出來的單價就沒辦法去取得訂單了，你懂嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：你要了解現在廠商內心的想法，所以我才說，到底韌性特別預算可以給他們多少的期待？你們夯不啷噹開了很多，你看，我們有460億的支持產業，可是他們看得到，吃得到嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：一定可以啊！現在申請的案件已經有一千兩百多件，我們在審查。"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！可是這一千兩百多件，是不是真的可以讓他們在這次關稅有辦法拿到一個同等的競爭力？這才是最重要的。部長，我希望你們去盤點的是，不是只看到說，哇！你看我現在有一千兩百多家來申請。"],["龔部長明鑫：我了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：而是你要去了解，這一千兩百多家是因為沒辦法去for你們支持產業的需求。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為他沒辦法啊！由於你通過了，他去for你這個需求，可是這個需求真正可以讓他跟人家有競爭力、可以跟人家爭訂單的一個條件嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，這就是為什麼我們會成立北、中、南、東的輔導團，主動去了解企業需要我們真正的協助是在哪一個地方，我們儘量來協助他們。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，這才是重要，也就是你要去了解他們真的受到影響的問題是什麼。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒錯，現在460億支持產業很清楚地寫在這裡，有需要的人來爭取，可是爭取完之後，他真的有這樣的一個天平可以去跟人家競爭嗎？這才是我們在這一次韌性特別預算的重點。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們要給我們產業的是有一個同等競爭力去跟人家競爭，我們的條件一定比人家好，我們給人家的信心指數也一定比人家高，可是當他在不同關稅的平臺當中，他說話就小聲了，對不對？他講話就小聲了啊！可是當他能夠有政府的支持，他有同等的競爭力，他就不一樣了。所以我才在講，3%的gap、5%的gap，這個部分你怎麼利用你們的輔導團去協助他們？這才是重要，你們的標準已經訂在這裡，他依照他的競爭對手的關稅，跟我們臺灣的關稅差在哪裡？我不是叫你直接補貼他5%，不可能嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是你可以用現在支持產業的一些狀況去協助他，盤點之後去補足這個gap、一個標準。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：甚至在金融支持的部分給予更多的力量，當政府輔導團給他一個保證，銀行都比較敢啊，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以啊！沒有問題。"],["陳委員亭妃：不然銀行根本不敢嘛！銀行第一時間就要看他的訂單，但他就是沒有訂單才要來爭取政府的協助。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們輔導團會把我們的信保機制一併的加進去。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，這個很重要。部長，我們關心的是，當預算過了之後，我們是不是真正的可以協助到這些中小企業跟傳統產業。"],["龔部長明鑫：這個也是我們最關心的。"],["陳委員亭妃：這才是重要。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們希望的是，有一個比較直接的盤點、有一個比較直接的協助，而且有直接讓他們有感的方向。"],["龔部長明鑫：好的。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，這個再拜託，謝謝。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝謝。"],["主席（鄭天財委員代）：現在請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-6","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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