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經濟部"},{"start":2286.806,"end":2294.331,"text":"原列1299億7440萬1千元除第12目非營業特種基金42億3467萬3467萬8千元佔照列是所屬非營業特種基金審議確定再行調整檢列第一目科技專案100萬元科目自行調整其餘均照列改列為1299億7340萬1千元本項通過決議65項第二項產發所原列"},{"start":2318.287,"end":2328.634,"text":"135億3907萬1千元除第四部非營業特種基金6億7800萬元佔照列次所屬非營業特種基金審議確定再行調整和取均照列本項通過決議24項第三項國際貿易署"},{"start":2331.735,"end":2346.238,"text":"二十七億四千八百二十五萬六千元照例本項通過決議八項第四項標準檢驗局及所屬二十六億三千一百七十七萬兩千元照例本項通過決議十一項第五項智慧財產局十七億兩千二百四十二萬六千元照例"},{"start":2347.279,"end":2355.483,"text":"本項通過決議7項第6項水利署及所屬406億6904萬元照列本項通過決議35項第7項商發署員26億9871萬8千元除第5幕非營業特種基金10億元暫照列是所屬非營業特種基金審議確定再行調整範區域均照列本項通過決議"},{"start":2368.65,"end":2392.433,"text":"十四項 第八項中小及新創企業署十三億七千兩百八十四萬五千元照列本項通過決議二十三項 第九項產業園區管理區級所屬八億五千三百零五萬八千元照列本項通過決議九項 第十項地質調查及礦業管理中心十億兩千九百四十三萬三千元照列本項通過決議十一項 第十一項能源署原列一百二十一億"},{"start":2394.863,"end":2419.242,"text":"7209万9千元处地私募费应业特种基金116亿2千万元暂照列设所属费应业特种基金审议确定再行调整外区域均照列本项通货决议14项3.114年度经济部及所属单位预算部分均审查完据114年度中央政府总预算本会负责审查之公布预算均于审查完据真识别税出预算随同"},{"start":2419.943,"end":2440.902,"text":"以上机关别审查结果调整你去审查报告提报财政委员会会诊本会审查结果虚交的党团学商院会讨论时有屡召集委员玉玲出席说明散会宣读完毕好在场委员不到三人我们议事录站不处理继续进行讨论事项请宣读"},{"start":2442.506,"end":2468.413,"text":"1 審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管經濟作業基金水資源作業基金經濟特別收入基金和農發電後端營運基金2 審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管台灣糖業股份有限公司台灣中油股份有限公司二案今日詢答宣讀完畢"},{"start":2472.093,"end":2495.026,"text":"本日議程為巡達114年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部主管的非營業部分有經濟作業基金水資源作業基金經濟特別收入基金核能發電後端的營運基金以及營業部分台糖"},{"start":2498.175,"end":2525.274,"text":"台湾糖业股份有限公司台湾中油股份有限公司那我们先介绍在场我们邱毅英委员再来介绍各位行政首长经济部的郭志辉部长国际贸易署江文若署长能源署的邮政委署长中小级新创企业署李冠志署长"},{"start":2526.755,"end":2554.048,"text":"水利署賴建信署長產業園區管理局楊伯根局長台灣電力股份有限公司徐永輝副總經理還有鄭慶紅副總經理台灣糖業股份有限公司吳明昌董事長陳立仁總經理"},{"start":2558.083,"end":2576.689,"text":"台灣終於股份有限公司方振仁董事長張明總經理行政院主計總處基金預算處王佩珊科長好那現在先請我們經濟部的郭部長報告"},{"start":2589.318,"end":2607.355,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家早大院今天審查本部主管非營業特種基金台塘公司以及中油公司114年度預算案本人就該試基金以及兩公司預算編列重點簡要報告如下114年度營業業務計畫"},{"start":2613.002,"end":2624.834,"text":"經濟作業基金下設科技產業園區作業基金以及產業園區開發管理基金等兩個分基金業務計畫如下依辦理科技產業園區設施維護與清潔環保檢測從業人員娛樂活動服務以及集水設施等管理維護辦理產業園區各"},{"start":2638.246,"end":2652.96,"text":"各項公共設施之維護管理有效防止水污染以及提供廠商相關服務輔導施宜預算案編列情形114年度預算剩餘較113年度增加3億8699萬4千元主要系產業園區開發管理基金園區公共設施維護費以及太陽光電業者之電價"},{"start":2662.83,"end":2669.896,"text":"競標回饋金等收入增加所致114年度固定資產投資計畫18億757萬6千元主要系科技產業園區作業基金辦理高雄團體園區第二園區第一棟大樓興建計畫等"},{"start":2679.983,"end":2696.324,"text":"水資源作業基金114年度營業計畫 水庫經營管理及河川輸進管理一 集水 辦理水資源調配及水庫重要設施之維護管理等工作二 輸進與清淤 加強小管水庫及中央"},{"start":2697.489,"end":2718.656,"text":"管河川清淤疏菌 辦理中央管河川海堤及排水設施管理與災害之搶修搶險等工作二 溫泉政策規劃及技術研究發展一 溫泉法收取溫泉收取費 辦理溫泉管理政策規劃及技術研發等工作"},{"start":2720.318,"end":2727.463,"text":"2.預算案編列情形,114年度預算短促較113年度減少5,028萬元主要是配合電價調漲、依售電契約調整售價單價增編售電收入、擴大河川輸進提高水庫清淤有價料量"},{"start":2743.43,"end":2769.309,"text":"增編土石銷貨收入所致114年度固定資產投資計畫32億8949萬5千元主要是辦理中央管河川集要段輸進工程用地徵收台南海水淡化廠工程計畫第一期及新竹海水淡化廠工程計畫等第三項經濟特別收入基金114年度的業務計畫包括"},{"start":2773.61,"end":2798.045,"text":"經濟特別收入基金下設推廣貿易基金能源研究發展基金石油基金再生能源發展基金及中小企業發展基金等五個分基金計劃如下一貿易推廣工作計畫辦理拓展貿易因應貿易情勢支援各項貿易活動等業務二能源研究發展工作計畫辦理節能技術研究發展與服務推廣及電業管理業務三"},{"start":2800.666,"end":2822.437,"text":"政府儲油石油開發及技術研究計畫辦理政府安全儲油能源新利用技術開發及石油業管理等業務市再生能源推廣計畫辦理市販補助推廣利用等業務五中小企業發展計畫辦理"},{"start":2824.994,"end":2852.083,"text":"扶持新創育成強化資金融通促進數位轉型升級及優化服務網絡等各項資源輔導與補助計畫二預算案編列情形114年度預算剩餘較113年度預算減少7億1708萬1千元主要系中小企業發展基金新增中小企業數位轉型經費所致"},{"start":2854.534,"end":2878.991,"text":"第四項核能發電後端營運基金114年度的營運計劃一低放射性廢棄物處理及儲存計劃辦理低放射性廢棄物儲存廠營運計劃並依法規規定辦理外運至最終處置廠之準備工作二低放射性"},{"start":2880.337,"end":2904.046,"text":"廢棄物最終處置計畫辦理選址調查相關工作促進低放射性廢棄物最終處置設施場址之選定三 用過核子燃料儲存計畫辦理用過核子燃料乾式儲存設施興建計畫四 用過核子燃料最終處置計畫持續精進處置設計與工程技術"},{"start":2909.12,"end":2934.657,"text":"針對未來處置廠設施之可能形式處置配置與組成等技術資料進行研究核子設施除液採廠及廢棄物處理及最終處置計劃持續進行核能電廠除液除廢棄物再利用研究及除液放射性廢棄物數量評估"},{"start":2936.963,"end":2960.843,"text":"作業研究與規劃二 預算案編列情形114年度預算剩餘較113年度增加140億6,879萬3千元主要系台電公司補足107及108年度為足額提撥之核能後端營運總費用增加核能發電後端營運提供收入所致"},{"start":2964.773,"end":2987.052,"text":"台南公司经营业务包括砂糖、毛珠子生产、修器服务及土地开发与管理等项目,自91年度起,每年皆有盈余缴户,近年致力于国内砂糖与毛珠等民生必需品的稳定供给,配合国家能源转型政策设置太阳光电开发绿色能源,"},{"start":2987.893,"end":3011.073,"text":"提供产业发展等所需用地持续提升核心事业竞争力114年度预算重点说明如下一重要业务措施一稳定民生物价配合农业部调节毛租至拍卖市场数量动涨砂糖及沙拉油等销售价格"},{"start":3012.493,"end":3035.591,"text":"與自有通路設置平價商品專區以減輕國人的負擔二 擴大綠電供應持續盤點各潛在廠址建置太陽光電設施並規劃保留部分廠址之三層綠電在再生能源憑證中心及綠電交易平台競標公中小企業有綠電購買"},{"start":3037.395,"end":3050.796,"text":"三提供產業及公共政策用地配合產業發展需要提供產業園區及科學園區等土地配合內政部提供興建社會住宅土地配合"},{"start":3052.973,"end":3074.582,"text":"衛生福利部興建住宿市長照機構提供土地提供各縣市政府設置有機農業生產專區土地以優惠租金租給有機耕作農民促進我國農業升級二營業收支盈餘114年度預算淨利較113年度增加6億9577萬元主要是投資投資性不動產"},{"start":3083.376,"end":3112.155,"text":"净利盈益营建毛利及利息净收入等增加所致三 投资计划及资金来源114年度编列构建固定资产建设改良扩充计划预算26亿3156万元资金来源均以自有资金支应第六项 中油公司中油公司因净零趋势及能源转型"},{"start":3112.97,"end":3136.352,"text":"除在本業持續加強公安管理穩定供應國內油氣亦積極拓展及參與再生能源業務開發碳捕捉利用及封存技術中合公司114年度預算重點說明如下一重要業務措施油氣供應穩定近期國際油價價格在70到80美元區間震盪"},{"start":3138.514,"end":3166.159,"text":"中央公司油品采购以油盐供应多元化原则目前原油进口以长期合约为主现货为辅以增加操作的弹性二 液化天然气采购策略是透过中长约布局为主短约以现货为辅以及机动的传奇调度稳定供应国内天然气市场的需求二 净零转型以优油减碳"},{"start":3167.174,"end":3191.468,"text":"節能為主軸進行公司轉型規劃優油方面以減少燃油增產石化品及開發石化高質材料及電子關鍵材料為目標二 減碳方面建制能源管理系統減少生產工廠碳排放推動製成節能減碳供應碳中和及生殖產品"},{"start":3192.679,"end":3196.362,"text":"3.工安管理,藉由工程及管理的控制,从源头消除作业危害及风险。"},{"start":3218.686,"end":3223.993,"text":"降低人員操作風險及提升職安管理中效達到預防職災的目的"},{"start":3226.821,"end":3255.396,"text":"環境保護將持續要求中油公司落實污染源頭減量提升整體的環境品質第五 地熱碳封存計畫地熱積極推動地熱碳勘及開發114年主要系完成宜蘭土廠5.4MW地熱電廠的建置並在宜蘭平原完成專碳一口4000公尺深層地熱二碳封存"},{"start":3256.73,"end":3265.847,"text":"鐵栽山碳補存跨部會試驗計畫將於114年完成灌注設備建置工程開始灌注二氧化碳"},{"start":3266.96,"end":3273.406,"text":"第二大項營業收入及盈虧114年度預算經歷較113年增加32億8981萬主要是預估114年國際原油及天然氣價格回跌進口成本將因此減少所致三投資計畫及"},{"start":3288.679,"end":3297.522,"text":"資金來源110年度編列構建固定資產投資計畫預算595億6278萬元資金來源除453億7480萬元以借款籌注外其餘141億8798萬元以自有資金支應本部主管非營業特種基金台堂公司"},{"start":3317.099,"end":3345.971,"text":"及中油公司114年度遇上案均系配合政府施政主轴妥善配置资源有助于达成活络产业发展动能协助产业低碳及数位双轴转型拓展贸易市场推动能源转型政策及稳定水资源等目标敬请各位委员支持与指教谢谢"},{"start":3352.162,"end":3365.211,"text":"好 我們現在有三位委員我們請問在場的同仁上次會議議事錄有無錯誤好 沒有錯誤 我們議事錄確定現在請台塘公司的吳明昌董事長報告主席 各位委員 各位縣長"},{"start":3380.896,"end":3406.832,"text":"大家好 大宴今天審查台廠公司114年度的營業預算民昌有機會就公司113年度的經營概況向委員 貴委員會提出報告自感榮幸那我們台廠公司所營的四類金屬完全競爭的市場在兼顧配合政府的政策"},{"start":3407.842,"end":3427.159,"text":"穩定國內民生物質的任務之下事業之經營倍受挑戰但是為了因應經營環境的變化台廠公司持續精進各事業發展目標與策略落實績效與品質管理以提升整體的競爭力跟事業的"},{"start":3428.445,"end":3446.006,"text":"因應績效那近幾年來太陽公司竟能持續獲利在113年度榮獲中華信憑機構肯定調升太陽公司信用平等為TWAA穩定TWA-1 Plus"},{"start":3448.709,"end":3463.286,"text":"也就是說從民國96年評定為TWA-穩定TWA-1 Plus以來第一次所次調升那我們很緊要的跟"},{"start":3463.786,"end":3478.989,"text":"大家報告台南公司113年度進行概觀說明大概有七大項第一個是剛才如我們的部長所提配合政府政策穩定物價我們維持重要民生物質的3公升沙油"},{"start":3479.87,"end":3508.416,"text":"瓶裝每瓶169元是從民國99年12月31日大家都調整我們台糖為了穩定物價都沒有調整以及從105年7月以來1公斤裝的那個小巴東砂糖美包那個36塊那當然我們來配合那個農業部穩定國內租價政策調節供應市場毛租數量以穩定弱品價格那"},{"start":3509.98,"end":3527.086,"text":"在市場的物價動力方面我們有密林的便利超商設置平價專區第二項是配合政府重大建設提供土地剛才我們部長也跟各位報告過了那就是說"},{"start":3527.779,"end":3549.173,"text":"那個以出資後合作開發的方式提供政府各項重大的建設所需用地那這集來配合台商回流配合產業的發展我們以提供24處的便機大概2158公頃的土地來設置延期或科學延期來推動產業"},{"start":3551.91,"end":3564.262,"text":"升級跟發展另外一個在配合政策提供攝護的土地我們包括衛福部啦內政部等等之類的還有我們的那個協議提供了"},{"start":3565.655,"end":3587.677,"text":"相當多的社會住宅 太陽公司大概目前提供24392戶第三大項是建置太陽光電協助利潤的發展我們以閒置的土地活化及複合式的利用方式在113年完成"},{"start":3589.023,"end":3615.133,"text":"設置容量543.64MW到115人可以達到862、863左右那我們的汽車廠當然我們有那個早期的發電大概全部完成以後也可以提供1.66MW那在研究發展方面我們跟著多元的利用把那個CP值把它提升那製造一些產品那另外一個"},{"start":3615.649,"end":3641.799,"text":"我們台南研究單位也成功開發了複合木製檀莓、羽毛、水解維生物技術跟植栓莓那也獲得那個農業部頒獎第九屆的科技農企業的菁英獎那第三個就是福德蘭培育的香釀園福德蘭台南建物者從引以先開始到現在讓台灣的福德蘭邁向全世界"},{"start":3643.035,"end":3672.044,"text":"那個太陽這樣一個很重要的任務跟績效第五個就是那個推動淨零的排放那個消防廠現在每年可以減少2萬公噸的二氧化碳排碳那大林生技廠每年也可以減少200公噸的二氧化碳的排放那另外一個在積極推動國家淨零轉型12項關鍵戰略之中自然碳會比方說森林碳會那在"},{"start":3673.086,"end":3700.878,"text":"以及土壤碳化化面我們都提供相當好的那個績效那另外一個在112年度跟國家原子能科技研究院合作在散化攤行進行生質能碳捕捉利用先期試驗合作計畫導入易檢那來捕捉二氧化碳產生碳酸氫鈉"},{"start":3701.858,"end":3722.232,"text":"那這個炭酸清炭可以用在食品、飼料、醫藥跟清潔劑方面那也就是說那個試驗的效果相當好也就是說我們種甘蔗到燒那個蔗渣的炭中和洗碗過程中兼顧的炭護排的利基那當然我們也設立了"},{"start":3722.895,"end":3744.554,"text":"台塘碳會教育館在高雄橋頭橋樓場那第六重點就是在文化資產的活化方面我們在它的設定古蹟沿水港四塘住室會社總社的辦公室修復工程案 容後文化部的文心獎金"},{"start":3746.796,"end":3770.555,"text":"講的榮書那當然我們也設立了那個台糖文理護照那今年11月橋頭糖廠跟日方舉辦了檸檬藤三郎的特展也在12份在那個蒜頭糖廠舉辦首次的嘉義糖果節那其他有關包括推動重要事蹟獲獎等之類的"},{"start":3773.038,"end":3787.226,"text":"剛才我們部長也提到除了農民種植有機作物以及各縣市設置有機農業專區的土地大概有1358公頃那也配合我們的政府"},{"start":3787.833,"end":3810.668,"text":"政策 蹲入邦交以前我們進口宏都拉斯的咖啡那因為宏都拉斯跟我們沒有邦交所以在進口瓜地馬拉 安提瓜非常有名的那個咖啡齁那我們台南也見了小誰回歸他們那另外一個台南長崎跟您敬您的永續齁我們在"},{"start":3812.847,"end":3840.023,"text":"包括尖山皮生態方面還有那個水路光電集循環住宅方面 像湯廠鍋爐改造天然氣方面以及非常有名的那個蒙群自屬的那個護蔗田 也就是用蒙群來看到在那個蔗田裡面然後看到老鼠或蛇牠會去追牠 眼睛非常的利效果非常好 這個獲得"},{"start":3843.06,"end":3844.108,"text":"講像齁就那個"},{"start":3845.711,"end":3872.493,"text":"TSAA台灣永續行動獎另外一個我們引以為傲的就是我們東海翁農業循環園區獲得全球也是我們台灣所在的英國標準協會的VSI的循環經濟國際標準查核聲明書那這個是非常不簡單那我們有的產品去參加比賽我獲得很多的獎項那當然我們在"},{"start":3873.693,"end":3892.92,"text":"休閒的部分也得到台灣公安金獎以上就是台南公司經營概況清醒提出報告至於公司113年度預算執行清醒跟114年度營業預算編列內容我們請我們公司總經理跟各位報告謝謝大家謝謝感謝"},{"start":3902.335,"end":3914.13,"text":"我們請業務單位 盡量精簡報告那我們台南公司的那個總經理的報告我們就參閱好不好那我們現在請中油公司的方正仁董事長報告"},{"start":3928.963,"end":3949.006,"text":"主席各位委員大家早那麼大院今天審查台灣中油114年度的預算那麼僅就當前經營環境經營策略以及114年經營的重點向各位委員提出簡要的報告首先在當前的經營環境國際能源市場的情勢方面"},{"start":3950.231,"end":3969.648,"text":"各國機構分別就OPEC Plus結束自願性減產措施以及原油需求在不同的情境提出了各種不同的預測在114年國際地緣政治的局勢是越行複雜加上川普總統上台以後在MAGA的新政"},{"start":3970.709,"end":3983.457,"text":"那麼為國際的能源市場發展帶來了很大的一個變數那麼我們縱觀歐美國家已經開始降息那麼紓解市場的資金的壓力帶動能源的需求所以在114年的國際油氣價格是續強"},{"start":3987.62,"end":4000.285,"text":"那么OPEC Plus的生产决策,中东的地缘政治,美国的油气产出,欧美的利率政策,那么这些都是影响国企油气价格的一个观察重点。"},{"start":4001.294,"end":4024.865,"text":"那麼在國內油品市場方面目前國內只有台塑石化跟台灣中油兩家油品的供應商那麼其中中油公司在汽柴油的市佔率是維持在八成左右那麼今年的台塑石化公司它轉向了國內的油品市場採行了一些的措施它要持續地搶佔國內汽柴油的一個市佔率"},{"start":4026.138,"end":4046.206,"text":"那麼中油公司也肩負了充分供應國內各項油品、天然氣及石化原料的任務並且配合政府穩定國內物價的政策我們一直在秉持品質第一、服務至上貢獻最大的一個經營理念那麼我們會致力於提供優良油氣產品提升服務品質"},{"start":4047.581,"end":4067.121,"text":"接下来说明在公司的经营策略方面面对快速变迁的经营环境中原公司近年来已经陆续展开各项因应作为以致力成为多元创新永续的国际能源公司为公司的愿景并且定出了六大发展策略"},{"start":4068.14,"end":4092.207,"text":"那麼接下來說明在114年度公司的經營重點首先第一個當然是在強化我們的公安跟環保那麼公安方面中央公司一向以公安百分百公安零災害為目標來降低重大職災的發生那麼全公司35個單位都已經取得了ISO4501以及台灣職業安全衛生管理系統的外部驗證"},{"start":4093.607,"end":4115.19,"text":"那么将会持续推动并落实各项安全卫生管理来降低职业灾害的一个建树保障工作人员的安全在环保的方面也因应环保法规科技的发展趋势来检讨现阶段各厂的情形提出积极改善的计划来落实执行提升各厂的一个环境的品质"},{"start":4116.091,"end":4130.538,"text":"同时为了善尽企业社会责任以及因应气候变迁我们也持续推动温室气体的盘查节能减碳工作气候变迁调试等作业同时也扩大了能资源整合跟回收再利用"},{"start":4131.943,"end":4145.255,"text":"那么面对2050近邻碳排的跨世代跨领域的转型工程呢那么周围公司也已经规划了长中短期的目标逐步的投入并且分阶段来实施来实现了近邻的永续"},{"start":4146.141,"end":4173.575,"text":"那接下来说明在推动重大的投资计划呢那配合政府未来的发展以及能源转型的需要呢中原公司在今年度呢一共执行了三大类一共15项的投资计划那么在天然气稳定供应方面呢包含了接收站以及管线等等的一些项目呢总计有8项另外在炼化转型的方面呢则有5项还有另外在强化韧性方面呢也有2项"},{"start":4174.375,"end":4200.102,"text":"那麼接下來在加強經濟服務提升市場競爭力部分本公司持續強化加油站的經濟服務配合政府政策來推廣加油站的行動支付來提升自助加油設備的功能並且進行汰換那麼在同時也推動加油站的一個改建來營造捷徑以及友善的加油環境提升公司在市場的一個競爭力"},{"start":4202.338,"end":4228.512,"text":"接下來說明在發展石化高質化的部分那麼也就是因應全球的淨零趨勢公司以研發帶動公司的轉型一方面掌握低碳的趨勢穩健推動減碳優化油氣價值鏈那麼一方面依照技術的一個進展來規劃發展氫能再生能源以及負碳排技術應用新科技朝向多元能源的智慧化的一個企業的邁進"},{"start":4230.049,"end":4245.096,"text":"那么台湾中油是填补国内石化原基本原料一个缺口来去化未来的一个多余的油品同时也建立国内自给自足的原料供应链推动的链化转型产业升级投资计划"},{"start":4246.038,"end":4252.607,"text":"那麼會將石化的產能提升到每年172萬噸同時在這樣一個投資計畫也鼓勵國內石化廠商能夠多投資5G、綠能、醫材以及半導體產業所需要的高石化產品"},{"start":4262.114,"end":4279.98,"text":"現在在拓展國際市場方面也是同樣中央公司會推動國外探索合作以及擴大經營中的礦區的合作機會爭取讓入優良礦區以及油氣資產來充分掌握自主油源穩定國內的一個能源需求"},{"start":4281.277,"end":4295.073,"text":"在应用新兴科技部分也顺应科技潮流启动了能源产业的一个创新变革那么中原公司会逐步导入人工智慧大数据虚拟实境5G IoT等新兴科技"},{"start":4296.235,"end":4319.662,"text":"期望在兼顾环境保护跟作业安全的情况下降低生产成本提高公司收益在布局再生能源的部分中央公司也积极地寻觅地面型的太阳光电的一个案场来增加绿电同时也在地热资源的部分也投入分三个部分来进行首先在土厂地热部分"},{"start":4322.143,"end":4343.133,"text":"目前正在建置低熱發電廠它的量是5.4MW第二個部分是中原公司跟中原營合作在宜蘭園山來專找園山一號井這是一個深層井來深入了解我們深層低熱的資源分布跟特性這有助於對未來在宜蘭平原地區的一個低熱能的開發跟應用"},{"start":4345.194,"end":4354.985,"text":"那么同样我们会盘点国内其他区域的地热发电的一个潜能区域来优选合适的场子来进行扩大的地热能的开发"},{"start":4356.226,"end":4383.645,"text":"另外在无碳燃料的供应部分中央公司也会持续推动可移动式家庭站的一个示范计划并且跟国内的合作伙伴来共同参与各项氢能的应用研发收集国际氢能产业的发展动态并且配合政府的相关的政策来规划供应各产业的氢能的需求那么仅就以上的报告敬请各位委员不吝指教"},{"start":4389.844,"end":4408.58,"text":"本日议程所列的讨论事项合并询答委员咨询前本席原例照宣告每位委员在发言的时间本会委员5加1分钟非本会委员4分钟上午10点30分截止发言登记现在请邱毅英委员咨询"},{"start":4421.169,"end":4448.096,"text":"謝謝主席 我先請這個台堂董事長好了好 來 董事長這個您新上任嘛 對不對您就任到現在多久了"},{"start":4450.482,"end":4479.145,"text":"麥克風要按一下11月29號11月29號上任我感覺您應該有點緊張對不對第一次到立法院來我剛剛看您在念這個報告有一點緊張那這一個多月兩個月的時間我想請教一下您對台糖的整個業務範圍熟悉的程度到哪裡可不可以請您簡要說明一下"},{"start":4480.486,"end":4497.236,"text":"謝謝委員的那個指教因為在這個當然除了一般的公務以外到各地方去了解那個一些活動當然那個因為台糖的那個"},{"start":4498.51,"end":4515.822,"text":"涉不衰很多那而且從台北啊台北有那個商銷部那裡有那個養豬的地方到屏東還有台東跟那個花蓮都有那我就說"},{"start":4516.903,"end":4541.642,"text":"配合各個那個期數或是各個部門有需要我都會去安排他們好來董事長謝謝這個你可能要稍微要訓練一下因為我只有6分鐘的時間來我直接請教啦你剛剛講說你從台北一路到南部去你知道你們台塘的土地有多少嗎"},{"start":4542.695,"end":4563.302,"text":"現在台塘的土地有5萬公頃4萬8千公頃那就是5萬公頃那你知道你們台塘在你們停閉的廠區就是以前做糖廠官廠的地方停閉的廠區的活化到目前為止你們只活化了385公頃還有120公頃還沒有活化"},{"start":4566.883,"end":4594.692,"text":"那我提到這個東西呢其實要跟您談的就是說因為你們沒有活化這個土地停工但是你的土地稅每年還是要繳所以你每年要繳2億多的土地稅佔你的停工損失的89.56%我想請教第一個台塘對於你們的土地活化這一題其實大家都會問因為台塘算是全台灣最大的地主你們的土地活化未來要怎麼做"},{"start":4596.092,"end":4609.759,"text":"有沒有一些比較精進的做法換了一個新的董事長來對於土地活化這件事情的了解度跟參與度跟規劃是什麼這個我想知道第二個對於"},{"start":4610.819,"end":4630.804,"text":"你們的循環養豬場的改建計畫我剛剛看到您的報告裡頭也有提到部長的報告裡頭也有提到循環養豬場的改建計畫延宕這個在之前的董事長在的時候我已經都問過了可是看起來這個改善的程度並不高你們現在第二期的養豬場的總工程進度有2.5%到23.55%都有"},{"start":4637.746,"end":4655.974,"text":"請教一下你這些延宕的工程進度何時可以追上你們說到明年6月要完工你確定可以完工嗎這兩個問題請教好謝謝委員的那個指教當然那個那個"},{"start":4657.75,"end":4684.707,"text":"長期的活化 比方說在維園的梁家的屏東我們在沙蛇溪的你不要跟我講那裡啦 你趕快跟我講我幫你問的這個部分 或是你沒了解沒關係你是不是那個書面報告給我好不好我剛剛提的這兩個問題是不是你們請台堂書面報告給我因為我還有下一題要問好 來台堂請回 我請忠祐董事長或者是總經理都可以 請方董事長"},{"start":4688.84,"end":4690.872,"text":"因為今天時間有點短所以"},{"start":4691.974,"end":4719.863,"text":"我其實要掌握一下時間來那個剛剛台堂的董事長是新任嘛中澳董事長雖然也是新任但是我知道您是老中游人您跟張總都是老中游人董事長跟總經理你們剛剛講到了這個再生能源的應用的部分其實有很多題我們過去都一直問過但是我其實想要更清楚知道是進度比如說可疑似的嘉青站"},{"start":4720.703,"end":4747.305,"text":"每一次你們的業務報告都會講到這個都會講中油積極在推動可疑式的加輕站從之前你們那個李董事長的時代我也問過他兩次一直到現在到底可疑式加輕站什麼時候可以做好可以做好幾座那個推動的進度是什麼到目前為止我沒有看到那這個部分我是不是也能夠請中油也給我一個詳細的書面說明好不好"},{"start":4747.865,"end":4769.215,"text":"另外我有一題我想這個可能還是要請中友去研究我還有一分鐘這個我們其實從劉仕芳委員到現在我們已經協商過非常多次在中友的後進宿舍後進宿舍區居民的用電的計價方式是用工業用電董事長您知道這件事嗎"},{"start":4769.955,"end":4793.903,"text":"我知道你知道這件事好那這件事情要怎麼處理我們協商了這麼多次中油總是講說這個改電表啦改這些設備的費用啦包括台電估價的整個建制費用啦要花三億所以中油就反正就這樣子大家一天拖過一天也不易去解決可是現在的工業電價一直不斷的在漲價這幾年工業電價已經漲了五六次"},{"start":4798.484,"end":4815.056,"text":"你讓宿舍區的民宅使用工業用電對居民來說情何以堪他再怎麼樣的節電其實他也追不上這個電價漲價的方式我請教一下董事長有沒有什麼更好的處理方式跟委員報告"},{"start":4818.905,"end":4834.979,"text":"如果說把工業用電改成一般住宅用或用電,那麼這中電差額大概差八百萬。對中原公司來講,我們要支付這個八百萬,就變成要有一些依據。"},{"start":4836.394,"end":4857.451,"text":"同時對於用戶來講他支付電價其實也是使用者付費不過我們也了解這個歷史的過程發展的情況是怎麼樣的所以目前是在跟住戶你為什麼要去支付800萬他用電用多少電你們就付多少電就是說改用民生用電來就跟他收取的話那綜合公司相對要多支付800餘萬"},{"start":4859.397,"end":4879.528,"text":"那目前就是住戶還有我們公司以及台電還有市政府還有地方的民意代表目前在協商目前就大概三個問題一個就是屋內的設施以及屋外的線路的架設還有公用電費的部分這三個區塊如何做一個協調那後續會進行這方面的一個協調"},{"start":4881.749,"end":4883.53,"text":"董事長這個 當然您講我們其實在地的委員們大家都已經協調過非常多次那每一次協調完"},{"start":4891.428,"end":4915.968,"text":"隔不了多久工業電價又漲價了所以對於居民來講協調完之後那個工業電價一直在漲價所以您剛剛講的那個800多萬的差額啊你現在如果不趕快去處理的話未來你的那個差額會越來越大因為你是用工業電價去計算你不是用民生電價去計算你用工業電價去計算的話你的差額會越來越大你中油現在不趕快處理的話"},{"start":4917.33,"end":4937.592,"text":"將來你要負擔的差額越多然後你就告訴Jimmy說那這800多萬的差額我中油沒辦法負擔我覺得這個不是不是理由啦要怎麼樣去解決宿舍區的用電電費計算的問題我期待或者是我要求中油是不是能夠更積極主動一點好不好跟那個上次我們國營會"},{"start":4939.373,"end":4959.068,"text":"國營會也一起下去談嘛 跟高雄市政府還有台電到底這個建置費用包括電感要不要下地整個那個太陽能儲能設備的設置等等再生能源的設置等等我覺得這個都一併要去談我希望可以在短期之內把本席跟這個李博弈委員大家一起來共同研商這個問題好嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":4970.175,"end":4996.608,"text":"請陳庭輝委員質詢謝謝主席我們請台南董事長請吳董事長董事長我想我現在很瞭解國福那契是甚麼"},{"start":4999.675,"end":5016.834,"text":"它的軌道是一般國際的二分之一用五分的車軌道五分的車蓋在我們台中有什麼不一樣的感情蓋在我們的文化因為以前我們的感情在文書都用五分的車這就是"},{"start":5024.141,"end":5041.916,"text":"所以五分車跟我們的台塘有很深的關係對不對也就是我們五分車料我們的塘鐵這是一體的因為它代表的是台塘的歷史我們台塘多久了"},{"start":5044.5,"end":5067.186,"text":"我們現在如果說改成台南人的公司是不要說改成公司啦 就是說從過去到現在我們開始用五分之一來再減價這樣再騰 這樣一路到現在不管你公司怎麼改變 這都不管就是從台湯七十八年七十八年到現在多久啊"},{"start":5068.661,"end":5079.867,"text":"已經70倍年了那78年請問你有沒有想要找回最能代表台唐的歷史"},{"start":5085.179,"end":5102.817,"text":"現在我們可以在運行的我們都盡量去除好現在在運行的你們有沒有盤整過現在到底多少被留下來你說你也當運行的盡量留下來好你有沒有去查查看現在到底"},{"start":5103.84,"end":5123.316,"text":"有多少被留下來目前在運行的跟委員報告就是西武糖廠到草埔段第二個是蒜頭糖廠到那個嘉義的高鐵站以及新營糖廠的到中興站到那個火燒店站"},{"start":5124.622,"end":5125.102,"text":"以前最"},{"start":5151.977,"end":5168.791,"text":"多的時候是三千多公里在台灣那目前跟委員報告我們在運行大概三十公里左右三千多公里跟三十公里這差了五天了吧我們要怎麼去保存台東的我們的力量"},{"start":5170.61,"end":5192.973,"text":"我想因為這差太遠了吧我為什麼來董事長為什麼用這個問題來跟你討論就以淵源最深的台南來講台南跟台中的淵源有親嗎有很深吧對我們的現在總公司也在台南是啊是好在台南被保留了多少"},{"start":5196.57,"end":5214.265,"text":"現在台南被保留的是132.5公里啦被保留的被保留的對包括立道你是說被保留我是說你有真正開發成為五分之一回歸過去基地的這部分是多少"},{"start":5215.82,"end":5230.137,"text":"8.6在泰南有8.6嘛對132目前被保留但是8.2有真正開發還保留五分車的這樣的一個歷史原貌對不對對好那請問該不會差太多"},{"start":5233.393,"end":5257.583,"text":"跟委員報告 你要怎麼串聯 你要怎麼串聯五分車在要開的話 相關的比如說安全還有那個方便性 還有有的可能要所以囉 董事長 今天我為什麼用這個議題我要跟你討論的是 我們要怎麼保留台唐整個歷史文化"},{"start":5259.04,"end":5284.355,"text":"我們要從五分之一回頭開始說但是今天我們已經遺忘了這個比例差太遠了我們怎麼在安全的考量又可以恢復它原始的一個歷史風貌來做一個交通串聯這是我們要做的而不是今天想到說這很困難的要把它串聯起來很困難的"},{"start":5288.53,"end":5313.706,"text":"一個困難我們就裹足不前我們怎麼對得起在整個78年以來走過的堂鐵走過的文化董事長我們要不要用一個專案我從過去一直談談到現在還是一樣我們的進度非常的緩慢"},{"start":5315.885,"end":5332.711,"text":"一定是要由縣市政府主力推我也知道有困難可是我覺得遺憾的是如果在台南我們可以把保護那家家團體慢慢一段一段把它串聯起來"},{"start":5334.124,"end":5352.05,"text":"我相信他絕對是原台南縣也就是說在我們整個農村生活還有食農教育一個非常好的串聯對不對你可以想像那個情境嗎我很期待"},{"start":5353.24,"end":5363.148,"text":"我不認為說真的盤整有這麼困難我也不認為說恢復有這麼困難我更不認為串聯有這麼困難事在人為"},{"start":5364.4,"end":5388.812,"text":"董事長 我們要不要來開創一個先機我們來努力一下好不好好 我們專案來study一下當然也是要各地縣市政府來配合你們的態度也很重要啊縣市政府每一次如果跟我們台湯在討論這個問題你們就說 哇 安全"},{"start":5392.094,"end":5414.01,"text":"安全這兩個字不是不能突破啊 沒錯 現在我們一定要比照現在台鐵它的安全系這是沒錯的 因為安全第一 可是不是不能做 也不是不能進行可是我們每一次都把這兩個字擺在前面之後 好像動都動不了"},{"start":5415.371,"end":5442.944,"text":"這是不應該的好不好董事長我們要努力一下study一下然後再來我希望就是說我們能夠重振糖鐵文化來帶動觀光還有五分車來串聯我們的交通這是非常重要的另外一個就是閒置多年將近30公頃的台南新營糖廠如何活化再利用"},{"start":5444.226,"end":5455.933,"text":"董事長 地方政府開了兩次會市政府在辦都市計畫的更新他開了兩次會嘛第一次會是在2024年的10月30號第二次是這個剛剛"},{"start":5466.138,"end":5489.244,"text":"剛剛這個1月8號2025年的1月8號第二場現在在做所有的一些相關的討論如何把它轉型為文化創意產業園區然後結合我們的歷史建築還有文化資產如何發展成為一個休閒文化藝術觀光多功能的空間我們希望我們台堂"},{"start":5490.869,"end":5515.397,"text":"應該要全力配合對 我們一定會全力配合我們的文化歷史或觀光等之類的因為我們在這個區塊裡面有幾個市定古蹟也就是我們的鹽水港治堂諸市會社的總社辦公室還有塑膠工廠的辦公室還有員工餐廳還有宿舍群這四個市定古蹟然後還有26個"},{"start":5516.857,"end":5535.622,"text":"文化資產潛力的建築所以我相信我們一定要透過這個串聯把這樣的一個在地歷史文化保留兼具觀光所以我剛剛講的為什麼塘田很重要交通很重要我過去在新娘大學"},{"start":5536.892,"end":5556.989,"text":"在新娘我印度的記憶我們經過都看到五分那車在鐵軌當中在跑那種記憶永遠記憶猶新我們一起努力我們如果把西北重新能夠整合再出發台塘扮演很重要的角色謝謝請張家俊委員質詢"},{"start":5573.228,"end":5575.953,"text":"主席我想請郭部長請郭部長"},{"start":5582.728,"end":5608.331,"text":"部長我想請問您記不記得前陣子本席跟您提起說我們斗六長治久安公園產發署就是產業園區管理局多次的在地方開會就是不願意來做公園的整治然後導致地方民怨在天可不可以請部長做一個回答請問這件事情的進度為何"},{"start":5611.004,"end":5637.089,"text":"這個部分我是不是詳細的部分由這個這個我們的那個局長來報告局長我想要知道的是說為什麼已經去會勘過那局長在現場也答應了大家說這個公園他一定會來整治但是在局長之下呢他的主任呢跟他所有的員工都不願意去執行到底是為什麼呢部長可以協助來了解呢"},{"start":5638.882,"end":5659.295,"text":"像委員報告那個經費的部分已經匡列了第二個規劃的部分今年會執行是那如果是這樣子的話當然我覺得非常的好部長可以拜託您繼續追蹤這個案件嗎因為在現場的部分呢我據我所知我現場去到那個"},{"start":5660.997,"end":5676.977,"text":"管理的這個辦公室 他告訴我說除非縣政府願意接管 否則他們是不願意來執行的那我覺得這一點是非常的不可行喔 也不可取 那我在這裡拜託部長繼續追蹤這個案件 那接下來呢我想要請教部長有關於陳"},{"start":5679.16,"end":5692.351,"text":"立這個綠電平台台灣智慧電能初期是由中鋼成立那到現在為止有很多販官股都已經被經濟部拉來一起投資了部長知道是哪一些販官股嗎我們現在這個這個是由這個中鋼他發起的啦那販官股的部分大概跟這個"},{"start":5705.415,"end":5731.72,"text":"方關股大概就是有綠電需求的是我們主要希望有綠電需求的方關股能夠加入據本席所知有耀華玻璃、ITIC、中華電信、中油、台灣高鐵跟國發基金那本席好奇的是這些方關股是真的自願的嗎它是自願來的還是是政策所比"},{"start":5732.862,"end":5737.051,"text":"報告委員我們經濟部的態度是這樣的就是說不強迫"},{"start":5738.39,"end":5766.487,"text":"不會強迫他們來參加啦就是有需求歡迎他加入因為我們建立這個平台是要解決小額然後沒有這麼長20年的需求的這些讓他們來加入那據本席所知包括國發基金包括ITIC包括耀華玻璃他們都不需要大量的這個綠電很顯然跟政策就是所逼有些微的關係因為如果是自願的"},{"start":5767.407,"end":5772.27,"text":"為什麼前兩天這個中鋼的工會他就來台北抗議他們覺得經濟部強迫中鋼要投資這個售電平台甚至影響到了這個中鋼的股價"},{"start":5782.617,"end":5804.351,"text":"部長會不會是因為台電已經賠的夠慘了所以這個拉台自電就是來約這些所有的國營企業一起來分擔風險因為所有的員工都很擔心他們的公司會不會步上台電的後塵是不是請部長說明一下可以這個部分我要跟委員報告第一個我們絕對沒有強迫"},{"start":5806.634,"end":5815.081,"text":"這些公司加入這樣的一個收電平台這是第一件事情我必須要澄清的因為中鋼的總工會他就說台製電恐成乾坑啊他們擔心他們這個員工的權益會受影響您覺得呢我認為這樣啦這是溝通的問題啦就是說中鋼的這個經營階層必須要跟工會再溝通啦因為工會可能是誤解所以他才會有這樣一個說法"},{"start":5834.656,"end":5860.297,"text":"部長如果是誤解是最好您知道中鋼有多少員工嗎一萬多名員工但是我認為這件事情一定是誤解沒有溝通的很好所以我要求中鋼的董事長要跟他們充分的溝通那我再問一下部長您知道中鋼的股東人數有多少嗎"},{"start":5862.138,"end":5866.169,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告我跟中綱的董事長我有跟他講"},{"start":5867.284,"end":5891.371,"text":"你們隨時可以退出所以這個我跟部長提醒一下中鋼的股東人數有130萬人那如果加入售電平台造成中鋼的嚴重虧損的話無意識將這個政策的風險轉嫁於這個百萬的股民跟這個中鋼的員工生計之上這個是完全是誤會啦報告委員"},{"start":5893.038,"end":5911.972,"text":"他們把這個事情大概誤會了很大所以我認為這件事情就是溝通再溝通持續繼續溝通到他們能夠了解我們支持你們溝通但是本席想知道的是成立全新的購電平台的必要性是什麼"},{"start":5913.393,"end":5931.245,"text":"購電平台就是服務小額但是沒有長期需求的因為台電他在2021年就已經有成立這個電力交易平台了這不是疊床架屋嗎這個差別在哪裡呢不是疊床架屋台電的就是必須要簽20年25年"},{"start":5934.228,"end":5949.251,"text":"長期的這個購電平台是讓業者小額的他隨時可以買隨時可以可以不買那我再請問一下部長這是在補過去的過去的這個方法補出的地方 根據經濟部的規劃台智電將統包銷25年容量約40億度電總金額至少5500億元那部長目前台智電預計每度電價格"},{"start":5961.853,"end":5967.861,"text":"幾元呢 售價幾元呢這個都誇大其詞 報告委員你如果有必要 我們親自去跟你報告"},{"start":5969.122,"end":5975.665,"text":"讓你非常清楚因為這個我認為是以何傳惹現在都弄到讓委員來這邊質詢了大家現在擔心的是台智電會不會在政策壓力之下被迫高價買綠電然後低價賣出造成虧損不可能確定不可能如果我甚至於我們可以大家勸一個MOU如果他買不到不要來找我們"},{"start":5996.155,"end":6002.582,"text":"那部長我可不可以請教一下台製電到底什麼時候可以開始受電什麼時候才可以打到損一兩瓶呢他不會虧損他不會虧損你可以幫他掛保證嗎你這樣子我都為您擔心了不用為我擔心這個是我的專業"},{"start":6017.267,"end":6035.422,"text":"那我必須要講啦 絕對不能把台電的財務黑洞轉嫁給新的受建平台把問題丟給販官股的企業跟民營調整能源配比 能源政策才是釜底抽薪的辦法 好不好 本席謝謝委員指教 謝謝"},{"start":6044.195,"end":6045.375,"text":"請張祺凱委員質詢請郭部長沒關係 先喝個水"},{"start":6074.704,"end":6075.744,"text":"我問一個一定被國會的問題,新打海資這事情應該被國會"},{"start":6099.468,"end":6124.053,"text":"六十四億六十四億是大減重的事情我去統計啊 去年我們有三變的風態造成的國家的虧損就只有六十四億這個 這是這個虧損六十四億 你看一個錯誤的政策對國家影響有這麼大啊 一月三號中間的這個元剛教幹部啊 總工會起來陳情他們問一個很重要的問題 今天 這邊有五個 我問你"},{"start":6128.179,"end":6155.568,"text":"這64億的這個虧損中鋼全部要吞下去嗎?一間扛起嗎?這對中鋼合理嗎?就公司法來講啦這是他的子公司嘛當然他要扛起來啊對啊那些做結策的人要付錢嗎?中鋼很可憐耶我看去年早上股票還有23塊多耶我剛剛上去看上禮拜跌破二字頭剛剛剩18點多耶"},{"start":6158.406,"end":6181.437,"text":"這是多輸喔 第一個 國家輸喔我們有20%的股份所以國家就輸了嘛 對不對第二個 員工很多人買了很多中鋼的股票那是會退休的關財本 他們說那是關財本耶大幅的縮水第三個 130幾萬的股民國家輸中鋼的員工輸130幾萬的股民輸結果政府現在有沒有人負責 拍拍屁股"},{"start":6187.571,"end":6211.441,"text":"叫中綱負責嗎?這什麼東西要負責?就公司法,就公司法而言就是中綱要負責中綱,還是要找中綱的當事人去做經理還有經濟部的,那時候的經濟部在行政院都要負責啊這個要追責任啊不然他要做不對的事情都,都很可憐股民的,我跟你講現在都有股民搞不好都要告你們告你們背信罪啦怎麼說呢?"},{"start":6213.948,"end":6231.102,"text":"不是,你害人害成這樣,現在還在跌呢?報告委員,我想我們就經營跟工作來源工會,事業有專攻,企業的這個決策是由董事會負責"},{"start":6232.722,"end":6253.762,"text":"對不對 所以柏定的意思很清楚嘛所以柏定的意思就是中間的董事會跟董事長總理要付這個錢董事會對公司的經營做出了一個原則上面的這個決策以後董事長總經理依照董事會的這個決策來實施嘛所以柏定你這個柏定你認為這個事情的責任要怎麼追"},{"start":6255.7,"end":6267.1,"text":"損害這麼嚴重誰要做這個我們剛才是要釐清他為什麼會造成這個樣子然後再從他的過程裡面看有沒有需要我們改進部分現在兩個問題嘛 我剛才問你第一個"},{"start":6269.879,"end":6295.521,"text":"這64億中鋼就吞下去嘛教練一直看他中鋼要負責的嘛對不對那這個公不公平這是第一個問題損害有多大第二個就是責任責任的歸屬嘛你說要檢討嘛對不對你如果還要我們檢討這個事情報告委員這個不是用這樣子來衡量啦齁你看看英特爾是美國發明半導體的公司也賺了那麼多的錢但是在去年虧損那麼大你說應該要追究誰的問題"},{"start":6296.461,"end":6312.687,"text":"這個公司經營不能夠這樣討論啦但是我們認為我們當然有責任去看中鋼為什麼會虧損這件事情到底是出在哪裡下一次再有類似的情形我們就去改善因為這個事情好像中鋼沒有弄應該不是吧"},{"start":6314.653,"end":6334.999,"text":"他就是推國產化嘛 對不對推國產化嘛 叫星達海基 國產化的東西做不出來嘛 對不對所以才會這64億才會虧損嘛 是不是這樣那你的國產化可能沒有錯 可是你為什麼當初沒有很詳細的很細膩的去做這件事情所以政府 三百塊民主競敵 責任政治政府都完全沒有責任嗎報告委員"},{"start":6336.36,"end":6351.489,"text":"策略是正確的但是達不到策略的目標的話應該去檢討執行的過程有沒有錯誤啦我想這個你應該是同意這樣說法那我在看因為我們後來事後檢討是因為他的學籍曲線太慢"},{"start":6352.429,"end":6370.644,"text":"第二個新達港的這個港的這個深度不夠但是這個風電的這個市場已經改變非常大就是我們的進步太慢跟不上這個時代的改變所以這個是作為我們下一次再投資的時候我們必須要衡量"},{"start":6371.857,"end":6396.166,"text":"五年以後十年以後的這個技術環境到達哪裡我們能不能夠進入所以損害已經造成了這個怎麼去彌補這個虧損不要只有中鋼員工跟國民吞下去第二個你剛講的嘛好好去檢討要趕快檢討啦我們現在是就這個部分那從這個星島海基的這個錯誤政策或者說你剛講的執行力不利造成這個虧損來講下一個更嚴重了"},{"start":6399.141,"end":6407.619,"text":"你剛才說不強迫啊現在台製電台製電這個事情演算到什麼程度你剛才說不強迫問題是中間一直一千萬已經丟下去了是不是"},{"start":6409.707,"end":6432.324,"text":"我的了解 我知道的內幕是中綱下面都已經空出來 它都已經開始在組織化已經人力啊什麼辦公室都找啦中綱已經被你們受命要做啦我跟委員報告 我也有親自跟這個黃董事長講如果你們跟工會沒有辦法解釋得很清楚沒有溝通得很詳細 你全部退出"},{"start":6432.904,"end":6453.672,"text":"你全部退出沒有問題沒有問題白紙黑紙喔我第二輪進來的話你已經說了就是中綱如果董事長跟總工會這邊跟他們員工溝通大家沒有答應他們是隨時可以退出行不行是的包括那一千萬可以可以沒有問題沒有問題好這是第一個第二個"},{"start":6454.859,"end":6479.871,"text":"這個平臺 這個綠電平臺 我一定不會跟你要求過你台電之前有綠電平臺 你就好好用台電你為什麼要去成立這個新的第二個 第二個很嚴重啊 我跟你講你一直保證說不會虧錢 對不對我一定會知道 台積電通不明就台積電 綠電公司要問他 問他一套門戶嘛 對不對他都不買了嘛那你想不想 去年我去查113年 我們短過電價 風電短過電價一套是多少錢"},{"start":6486.598,"end":6496.365,"text":"113年綠電的短貨電價是多少?4.6元4.5元將近4.6元我們用短貨電價一邊去簽20年還是25年是4.5到4.6元你買台積電5塊台積電不買對不對那你現在跟我講你去買你會比去年的短貨電價高還是低?"},{"start":6512.779,"end":6519.686,"text":"如果你比他高那就台電去買就好啦這個等過電價就是台電去買的價格嘛台電現在也不要這個價格啊"},{"start":6521.62,"end":6547.177,"text":"你現在不會虧欠 畢竟現在兩個事情嘛第一你要保證你的價格不會比這個原來的短過電價高嘛是不是 這是第一嘛你今天可以做這個保證嗎第二個就是我說的你要先找到買家你才能夠賣喔要不然的話你現在一直都不曉得買家在哪裡你簽什麼MOU都不準喔你KU要先打出來喔哪一個企業要買你的電你說聯電啦 什麼東和 東和鋼鐵都要買電對不對MOU都不準"},{"start":6551.623,"end":6573.957,"text":"這幾間公司一定要跟他簽,你買多少電有確定,有買家我才能夠去買,不然買一百九千就是買了之後銷唄出來嘛對不對這跟台電現在的狀況是一樣的嘛,那以後這個平台買了一堆電沒有買家到後來就是叫中鋼去用,中華電信去用,中友去用嘛現在中鋼的國票現在會落,為什麼那股票會跌"},{"start":6577.654,"end":6587.483,"text":"在新台海去移軌就是為了那些過電平台啊你要趕快去踩煞車啊那今天委員既然這樣講我想我已經答應說讓他退出嘛他明天會不會股票會不會漲"},{"start":6589.332,"end":6615.807,"text":"會不會長來這個因素已經沒有了來來拭目以待啦今天部長說講了那當然你要打你講的話要能夠落實喔這也是國會殿堂所以我講的就是我必須要去執行的事情所以我再講我再講一次中綱如果沒有辦法跟他的這個國會的同跟他這個工會的同仁做充分的溝通"},{"start":6616.767,"end":6633.331,"text":"那麼他隨時可以推出這個平台部長今天做了很鄭重的宣布我想中鋼很多的員工現在應該是股長叫好的包括那一百三十幾萬的股民我就看部長這個保證以後股票還沒跳起來馬上檢視 好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員不要講但是我問一下我問一下自己的大事我電郭要請你去我自己考察"},{"start":6639.853,"end":6663.622,"text":"你當場有 我們有提到我們家裡是棒球的這個園鄉 很有名的就是卡農你當場也講說你們會去認養跟幫助嘛 對不對那現在出 現在達成了怎麼樣的現在就是由台糖公司來這個協助嘉義大學的這個棒球隊怎麼樣來協助 至少兩個事情要做啊"},{"start":6663.962,"end":6680.502,"text":"就是第一個要不要冠名 例如說冠你看你有很多嘛 你台電中央都有球隊例如冠名 冠名台灣台灣糖業這個第一個冠名第二個我們有嘉義 這個卡農有棒球場嘛嘉義大學有這個棒球場可以來任良這個棒球場對不對"},{"start":6681.832,"end":6710.792,"text":"還是做什麼樣的幫忙我們就先把球隊然後冠名這是第一個階段第二個階段才會協助他們怎麼樣訓練提升他的戰績這樣子好 謝謝喔所以從今天開始嘉義的不只是有名的Canon嘉義大學的棒球隊全世界有名不是台灣喔是 這個你可以問嘉義大學的校長也可以問我們台塘的董事長我們都已經這個都已經形成了好 那就是有台塘"},{"start":6711.372,"end":6729.667,"text":"台塘嘉義大學棒球隊了是不是是以後要盡量幫忙這個對整個嘉義不是只有棒球整個體育會有很大的一個發展台塘也做了一件很重要的事情你們投入體育你看我們中間都有球隊對不對中友台電都有了以後恭喜台塘也有個好的球隊謝謝委員支柱謝謝"},{"start":6741.516,"end":6765.019,"text":"在謝一鳳委員質詢完畢 我們休息 現在請鄭天才委員質詢主席 貴委員 有請台糖公司 請吳董事長"},{"start":6775.829,"end":6803.109,"text":"董事長好也請那個業務部門來協助這個就是談這個台糖公司在接收日記時代接收日記時期自糖株式會社的土地日本統治台灣的時候成立了這個"},{"start":6807.825,"end":6835.265,"text":"治堂諸市會社然後他們敗戰之後離開了這個台灣沒有把土地帶回去當時的行政院在南京呢當時的行政院就接收成立了台堂公司接收這個日本諸市會社的土地而這些土地"},{"start":6836.536,"end":6856.181,"text":"有很多很多是原住民的土地你們接受之後按照你們的資料那個備註下面就寫得很清楚接收接收然後35年5月1號作為一個開始"},{"start":6861.011,"end":6885.457,"text":"出租給我們鄉親然後開始收租金我過去在台南省政府服務為了原住民真化邊原住民保留地就開始辦理的時候遇到台糖公司的土地就必須要由政府來架構去買"},{"start":6887.774,"end":6916.152,"text":"因為它不是公有土地如果依轉型正義的原則其實是應該直接就還給原住民才對因為並不是你們買的當初並不是你們台商公司本來自己的土地但是我們當初都是用這個方式所以在民國95年我那時候在中央演民會擔任副主委"},{"start":6917.318,"end":6945.733,"text":"立法委員我的前輩質詢之後我們就開始進行那這一次就是112年我們來看一下112年經過質詢多次之後這個行政院核定第二次架構台塘土地112年7月27號這個行政院原則同意人民會所報的這個計畫"},{"start":6947.332,"end":6956.996,"text":"然後並照國家發展委員會審議意見來辦理這個寫得很清楚好我們看這個國發會剛才寫的國發會的一個函"},{"start":6963.534,"end":6981.128,"text":"啊 意見 審議的意見這裡面有提到啊 這個土地當時 所 聯名會所報的土地面積啊 1點多公頃 不多啊 41筆啊那我現在請業務單位請目前這個進度怎麼樣"},{"start":6985.902,"end":7001.817,"text":"跟委員報告 行政院核定的這1.44公頃我們已經提報董事會已經同意依照行政院還有國會這個指示的原則來辦理那我們後續已經也跟原民會這邊簽訂這個土地買賣契約書然後接下來就會買賣契約書完成了嗎"},{"start":7006.755,"end":7036.338,"text":"完成了沒12月中旬12月中旬已經完成 那我們董事會是11月份的時候 董事會通過以上報告為好 謝謝那個資料啊第一個就是說總共比數還有面積這第一個 素面補充資料 第二個金額是多少金額是多少請問一下業務單位啊原則上就是以41比那個"},{"start":7039.028,"end":7063.061,"text":"這作為那個比數跟面積嗎57比57比有增加總共1.44公頃好好我們接下來要談的是什麼呢我們看國發會的說明2的瓜福2的下面我畫紅線的我念一下"},{"start":7064.551,"end":7088.763,"text":"依據公有土地增化邊原住民保留地審查作業規範的規定77年2月1號以前原住民即使用祖先遺留下來的這些土地這個也要繼續辦理這是國發會當初報給行政院所以這個部分我們接下來接下來因為之前"},{"start":7090.697,"end":7115.831,"text":"之前辦的主要是以民國35年5月1號之前簽約的部分那事實上這個因為那時候是考慮到經費各方面的因素所以要分期來辦理國發會當初的意見是這樣所以才會有這個國發會說明二的瓜福二的後段這樣的一個"},{"start":7118.18,"end":7130.644,"text":"現在就是要請台糖公司再去盤點除了之前已經合訂的之外然後你們也簽約了"},{"start":7132.902,"end":7153.059,"text":"現在簽約還沒有移轉嗎還沒有正在辦正在辦正在辦移轉的手續那後續要繼續辦理後續要按照行政院核定依國發會的意見來辦理所以後續的部分要繼續辦理而資料就是在你們手上"},{"start":7155.47,"end":7164.913,"text":"誰曾租了這些土地上次我已經告訴這個台糖公司的這個承辦單位花蓮"},{"start":7166.36,"end":7184.255,"text":"台東的這邊的懲罰單位怎麼去知道這些土地他們已經知道了 方法上都有了所以要後續來辦理所以你們部分主動要提供這個相關的盤點這些資料 可以嗎好 好 我們因為時間的關係我們就先到這邊 謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":7197.639,"end":7222.369,"text":"請謝依鳳委員質詢謝謝主席我想要請郭部長請郭部長委員好郭部長早我要跟你直球對決我要問你"},{"start":7226.863,"end":7252.805,"text":"川普即將要上任那他過去說全方位的提高關稅現在他說只針對攸關國家或者是經濟安全的特定產業我問你是什麼那未來如果他採取這樣子的關稅的時候那對於台灣我們的危機在哪裡請說"},{"start":7256.354,"end":7282.4,"text":"首先回答這個委員關切的這個命題我想對台灣的威脅就我們到目前所了解的程度雖然他1月20號才會上去但是我們從他周邊所用的人跟這一些任職在新的他的內閣的人的行為來看他的這個讓美國更加偉大的這個做法"},{"start":7284.482,"end":7311.307,"text":"關稅大概這個關稅的部分大概只是他在選舉前講的真正的1月20號以後他落實的部分就像剛才委員所詮詢的可能會有一種不同不過這些命題我們想這個國家安全的部分相對的是比較多的對於國家安全的關稅提高是比較多的是不是所以他應該都是針對中國"},{"start":7313.059,"end":7341.058,"text":"针对中国所以我们在内部讨论的这个方式就这样就是说我们如何帮助我们台商在台商对这个川普他对这个粗糙的部分他很考虑所以我们怎么样移转协助我们的厂商移转到他可能会增加关税的这个区域那么移动到"},{"start":7342.093,"end":7362.148,"text":"不會增加關稅的地方從會增加關稅移動到不會增加關稅這是你們的做法嗎是不是譬如說在選前他一直在講他會對他最鄰近的兩個國家墨西哥跟加拿大課以高的關稅跟對中國課以更高的關稅"},{"start":7363.909,"end":7379.559,"text":"這是他講的所以我們會針對他這樣一個假設的情境來跟廠商做一些討論我們盡量讓廠商的傷害是最小的以我們討論到目前的結論來講的話"},{"start":7384.066,"end":7406.851,"text":"對臺灣影響比較大的應該是ICT的相關的產業ICT的產業另外一個然後第二個傳產的部分應該是在汽車因為川普我們根據很多的研究者經濟學家的分析川普是比較可能是比較"},{"start":7408.393,"end":7428.866,"text":"他的印象之中也就是80年代的美國可能是他的picture80年代美國非常強大的時候那麼一直存在他的腦海裡面所以這樣子的一個關鍵我們是有跡可循的所以他認為80年代美國最強大的是什麼汽車業汽車業建築業"},{"start":7432.293,"end":7444.175,"text":"所以他想要把汽車移回去美國生產是嗎沒有錯所以你可以看到這個Mask回去了他現在要增加的部分都在美國"},{"start":7445.66,"end":7466.034,"text":"好那我再問你你認識OTN過去的總代表我們鄧正宗總代表嗎他在他提出了他對於川普上台之後有可能發生的問題他有提出一點他說如果未來"},{"start":7467.475,"end":7486.489,"text":"川普要求台灣跟他一起打擊大陸的時候是不是會減少要我們減少對大陸的進口而增加對美國的進口你認為這時候台灣要怎麼因應會不會對於我們的物價造成影響"},{"start":7488.359,"end":7503.869,"text":"我們現在對中國的投資跟對美國的投資已經非常大的改變在過去的這幾年內所以我們要從中國進口的東西其實是已經不多了"},{"start":7505.475,"end":7531.31,"text":"我們對中國的輸出也不多了其實鄧先生所提出來的這個觀點我們會參考你說的不多其實我們還是大部分當然對比於過去幾年來已經大幅度的降低但是還是很大程度的從大陸進口因為我們從中國大陸進口的東西一定會"},{"start":7532.932,"end":7556.012,"text":"想殲滅是比較嚴重的延遲對我們國內的事業一定有非常大的影響因為中國對出國的東西強化它的補助所以造成我們國內我們如果開放讓中國的東西進口到台灣的話我們台灣很多的傳產很多的中小企業可能都沒有辦法存活下去"},{"start":7556.753,"end":7579.399,"text":"所以在這個部分的話經濟部會有一套保護國內中小微企業繼續發展的一個方式那我們相信透過我們現在這個雙軸轉型的方法一個用AI來提升我們台灣企業的這個價值型的這個活動第二個透過我們的節能減碳"},{"start":7580.399,"end":7600.971,"text":"的補助來降低我們這些中小微企業的製造成本第三個我們可能會擴大加速我們國內的基建基礎建設那基礎建設擴大加速的話就會讓我們的中小微企業"},{"start":7602.318,"end":7627.137,"text":"得到国内自己的订单好这是理想的状态啦但是我们必须要了解美国自己有没有办法减少从大陆的进口美国自己也从大陆进口非常多的东西是不是那如果他们从大陆降低从大陆的进口会不会反而造成他美国的通膨呢"},{"start":7627.857,"end":7645.502,"text":"這也是他們應該要考量的但是美國的通膨我們發現美國在看過去的通膨非常的厲害在過去COVID-19造成了這麼大的通膨美國發債所以讓他現在的通膨的影響只有在2點多%所以這個就是他們美國的經濟的這個"},{"start":7647.984,"end":7664.462,"text":"处理的模式我相信在未来就是他对中国实以高关税但是这个不是完全没有替代性的所以我认为他们有办法应应中国他提高关税的方式第二个"},{"start":7665.421,"end":7693.486,"text":"大部分這個基礎的這一些生活所需的設施中國雖然價格很便宜但是品質還是堪慮所以這個替代性相當的高我相信美國他們會有方法來面對這樣的一個現象好 謝謝好 謝謝委員指教因為林委員有事我們就調整一下休息請林代化委員質詢"},{"start":7704.229,"end":7704.269,"text":"蜂蜜"},{"start":7746.649,"end":7756.335,"text":"有請郭部長請郭部長午安好"},{"start":7759.062,"end":7769.289,"text":"為何產業的期待卻在街頭矢口中鋼工會北上抗議經濟部離岸風電國產化的政策讓高雄鋼鐵及金屬加工產業由期待變成傷害開發業者的金錢遊戲所包裝的綠能力劍"},{"start":7779.517,"end":7788.39,"text":"变成产业的追星之痛关键就在于国产化产业政策的执行的不确实所导致的好我们来看这个绿电平台"},{"start":7790.864,"end":7818.04,"text":"綠電交易平台為何遭到中鋼工會的強烈不滿跟抗議如果今天中鋼公司配合中央人員及產業政策進行投資成立的新達海基投入的離岸風電水下結構政府依照政府自己的承諾務實要求離岸風電的開發業者需符合國產化的比例辦理而且政府沒有重北輕南的產業輔導政策"},{"start":7819.861,"end":7835.571,"text":"的方向新達海基會如此黯然落幕嗎所以在新達海基他其實是在離岸風電的這個產業當中縱北親南之下離岸風電國產化政策欺負南台灣欺負高雄人的最直接證據"},{"start":7836.92,"end":7854.949,"text":"好所以呢當然這影響到中鋼工會來抗議綠電平台投資案是基於中鋼公司對離岸風電國產化完全失去信心當然你們講得很好啊你要辯解綠電平台你們講得很棒這可以解決大型企業對綠電採購的觀望所導致綠電無法整平賣出"},{"start":7859.151,"end":7888.063,"text":"這也解決了中小企業需求綠電買不起整批綠電或者買不到適量綠電所以這個綠電平台由政府坐東5500億採買無法零售的離岸風電進行化整為零銷售給中小企業這其中的風險就是在於歐盟規定2030年前進入歐盟市場所有的產品都必須符合RE100規範但是綠電平台的前期就有沉沒成本"},{"start":7888.903,"end":7915.405,"text":"好 部長綠電平台如果如你所講它只是一個綠電貿易商一定有利潤你就不一定要讓中鋼集團投入啊中鋼集團已經經不起64億打水漂的星達海基了這一次是5500億啊 部長如果今天真的將你講的那麼有利可圖那你就評估有其他不會的放工股集團來處理 可以嗎"},{"start":7918.035,"end":7936.336,"text":"剛才在回答前面兩位委員的說法如果中鋼的董事長沒有辦法跟工會充分的溝通那麼讓工會可以屏息掉他們的疑慮我說過了中鋼隨時可以退出這個平台"},{"start":7937.588,"end":7964.599,"text":"你怎麼會讓中鋼來處理呢你不考量你自己不考量放供苦集團嗎你為什麼硬壓著中鋼要做這件事情如果有利可圖啊你的財政部下交通部下交通部下的中華電信啊財政部下的也有啊你為什麼不找其他可以資源比較好的如果像你這麼講的那麼好那我不敢再講說叫台電再叫中油了他們已經昆鼠連連了你是不是有點誤會了我剛才在講"},{"start":7968.14,"end":7979.449,"text":"中鋼雖然是發起人他也可以退出那你就直接找你直接就找 竟然有疑慮啊你就直接找其他發起人中鋼配合就好你為什麼要讓他做主導呢"},{"start":7980.356,"end":7999.003,"text":"沒有啊 你為什麼要做主導你就找那個中華電信來啊我其他經濟部的其他辦公股我才直接的其他投入就好你為什麼讓他做發起人所以這個根本就是你們自己已經在國產化政策讓我這個中南部的業者讓新達海基整個信心崩盤嘛"},{"start":8001.124,"end":8027.392,"text":"所以可不可以有其他部會的放工股集團來處理直接回應你為什麼一定要押著中鋼來做這件事情我沒有押著中鋼做這件事情剛才你一直講啊如果中鋼的董事長不能信服中鋼是你們行政院指派的他就提名於你啊你為什麼自己對於這樣子不知道說這個原解鈴還是蓄鈴人啊你們放任在整個離岸風電國產化當中讓我中南部的業者"},{"start":8028.332,"end":8037.317,"text":"這樣的一個受傷慘重然後你要逼著中鋼在已經六十四億打水漂了再投資個五千五百億當然你會說五千五百億我們大家來投資啊六十四億就在那邊咧整個沒有欸這政府這個政策殺人欸"},{"start":8044.465,"end":8063.704,"text":"可不可以由其他部會辦公股集團來處理你為什麼要壓著這個中綱來做可以,如果委員是這麼堅持的話,沒有問題好,可以,那你就由其他部會的辦公股集團來處理喔那你們就繼續來做就他退出就可以啦我們這個公股平台已經建立了嘛"},{"start":8064.448,"end":8092.916,"text":"他退出就可以啦你這句話越講越矛盾什麼叫做他退出可是你壓著他做的嘛我沒有壓著他做好那你說那你要請誰做既然他抗議的話那你要請誰做都有人可以做來你說竟然都會有利可圖啊你說中油嗎中油總董事長在這邊還是台電你講啊誰會公家機關會說有一個政策沒有有一個政策你不講說哪一個主管機關有一個主管機關會自己跳出來做的"},{"start":8093.871,"end":8121.58,"text":"我從來沒聽過我從來沒聽過24年的立委七屆的服務了我從來沒聽過不是你們指令下去給中鋼他會做嗎所以你就講啊如果你覺得中鋼人家反彈那麼大那你覺得有誰來啊我這麼多的放光股公司嘛所以你要來評估嘛好多久時間你要評估其他的放光股公司你要多久來評估出其他的放光股公司來做主要的發起人中鋼不要"},{"start":8123.615,"end":8149.189,"text":"我們到今年的4月其他的公司都會入股了4月4月那主要發起人是誰還是要中鋼嗎來 胡安中胡市長他已經是存在的一個公司了嘛發起人跟其他我其他加入股份的是不一樣我加10%我加0.5%那也是在加跟我加了60%跟我加了49%加51%是不一樣的"},{"start":8151.73,"end":8165.643,"text":"我想委員你所爭議的是中鋼的權益嘛當然啊 對不對你已經64億打水漂了而且是你們中央政策放水耶放水讓北部的業者自己所以我們的離岸風電國產化是假的是反而我們救了誰的國產化救了韓國的鋼鐵業的國產化哪有什麼國內的國產化"},{"start":8176.291,"end":8202.526,"text":"好 我們繼續檢討 所以這個題目你要回答我由其他部會的放工股集團來處理 可以嗎我們就在4月就全部進來了好 OK 來 那我們來檢討還有沒有辦法就國產化綠能發電的本質它有幾個特性綠能都是運用現有的可循環天然資源進行發電第二個 不論風光地熱等綠能天然資源的調查才是關鍵第三 綠能發電它是一個財務工程"},{"start":8203.046,"end":8229.998,"text":"它是道道地地的財務槓桿的遊戲而非高科技的工程離岸風電更甚如此第四個國家公告的開發領選的規則是有鑑別性的選商的是要符合資格才可以進來的而第五個歐盟向WTO申訴的行為本質是商業競爭行為這個是我對於郭部長您上來你沒有馬上認知到歐盟向WTO申訴這是一個商業競爭行為好"},{"start":8231.559,"end":8252.093,"text":"那沒關係本席可以理解國家重視WTO的考量不限制離岸風電第三階段第三期3-3國產化的要求我只能理解我不能接受但是3.3期之前的國產化規定國家應該寸步不讓好等一下我把這幾個規定講清楚那部長你來回應"},{"start":8253.834,"end":8263,"text":"針對三之一 三之二的國產化 您是不是還會堅持我就從這邊的 這個是你們的遴選規定 這都是你們的規定出來的為扶持國內產業與關鍵能源的政策 因此制定了遴選規則明訂需達到申請容量60%的國產化單一風場的500MW規模則水下基礎需要20座的需要國產化的方案"},{"start":8278.73,"end":8299.641,"text":"好 再來有這個零選規定還有第二個特色分店場的開發業者與投標前需提供國廠化的供應商的名單及零選規則且明擺著即使我要更換優先順序的廠商也僅限於選商報告內所載的供應商 即使我要換"},{"start":8300.942,"end":8310.031,"text":"我也必須在這個給你們的報告商中的廠商去換他是有鑑別性的符合條件的好那國家離岸風電水下結構產業狀況我就要為我大高雄南台灣講話九大工項"},{"start":8317.138,"end":8328.732,"text":"24家的業者都在高屏區 只有一家在台中 台塑重工在雲林 其他都在高雄屏東能夠百分百的執行離岸風電水下結構所以國產化的技術團隊是沒問題的好"},{"start":8331.835,"end":8356.322,"text":"那你人員需求綁架的政府的公權力嗎高雄的金屬加工及扣件業者現在中央產業發展政策投入巨額的資金每一家動輒都失業這是中小企業至今卻顆粒未收遭到開發商各種理由啊說我們不適合規範排除啦集團集團的交期啊本來四五個月應該要完成就要求國內者要六到九月這樣就說我們國內無產製這都是政府沒有去挺業者"},{"start":8360.503,"end":8362.285,"text":"這樣進而就讓開發商來規避國產化的要求所以當初經濟部說要組成離岸風電國家隊進軍東亞風電市場如今高雄的業者卻是哀鴻遍野"},{"start":8375.8,"end":8385.991,"text":"這是道道地地的政策殺人莫勝於此所以我對於你說你要3.3啊這個放棄國產化我真的是大步以為然那整個我中南部整個都是真的不知道怎麼講了投資了數十億的設備就方位在那邊然後整個的大的碼頭中鋼不做民間來做"},{"start":8394.24,"end":8417.527,"text":"就是真的積極的在找訂單好 但是不破網禮安風電第三階段的第一期跟第二期的國產化政策會不會務實執行維持60%的國產化比例部長請回答政府的立場就是我們凡是答應的事情就是會做到所以三之一 三之二國產化政策會務實執行60%的國產化比例嗎"},{"start":8422.506,"end":8450.019,"text":"我們當然是 這個是以前的規定就必須要遵守好 31 32 還是維持百分之六十的國產化 是嗎第三遍再問一次我已經回答過了所以是是還不是請你直接把這句話完整去 這句話太重要了請你如果同意附送一次經濟部支持離岸風電第三階段第一期第二期國產化政策維持百分之六十的國產 講一遍"},{"start":8452.776,"end":8454.898,"text":"我這邊是為我中南部的業者發聲啊你一上來就是屈服於 怯懦於整個一個國際遊戲規則所有的開發商集結起來要欺負我台灣欺負我台灣的國產化 你竟然接受"},{"start":8470.33,"end":8475.674,"text":"好 那至少3G 3G2我一路了解我國產化的政策你不可能比本席更了解整個的業者這多少家24家都在高頻欸整個就是機械錢是數十億的機械錢 學看錢欸講過了 你剛才在講的所以請你副總一遍部長 副總一遍我一定要得到你這句話否則我就不下台我今天就不離開這個主席台"},{"start":8499.898,"end":8510.524,"text":"你知道你多可惡嗎你知道你的3.3期的說這個屈服於這種國際的遊戲競爭來欺壓國內的國產化業者你就冒然的說你要放開3.3的這個國產化那我說要24家的業者真的是血本無歸啊所以你今天是這麼的不知道明你難道要在WTO裡面留下說中華民國被WTO告的這個結果嗎所以你要有因應啊"},{"start":8526.952,"end":8538.902,"text":"那是因為你沒有方法 你要因應啊至少回歸我講過了 我剛才講過三之一 三之二 我們的條件沒有改啊什麼條件 國產化條件是什麼你剛才講的什麼條件啊你什麼條件 講啊 你講就是國產化多少條件 你不知道嗎你做一個步驟 國產化的比例是多少嗎 講我剛才講了 60%嘛好 OK 繼續"},{"start":8549.811,"end":8569.637,"text":"好繼續 另外不好意思主席不好意思主席讓我再把這句話因為實在是太可惡了好既然這樣第二個喜慕立信始於落實離岸封建的第三期的第三階段的第一期精靈選核發的開發業者如右表這些這五個風場全部是你核定的三之一"},{"start":8570.237,"end":8584.985,"text":"其中海勝風場的由豐瑞開發它是由台電中油也投資將近股權到40%的股權按照規定投標的這個規範及計畫書的承諾務實執行國產化的政策60%中油的董事長也在經濟部長您剛才講說要60%那個中油董事長你來承諾吧"},{"start":8596.345,"end":8602.606,"text":"時間到了不好意思這個你一定要講清楚因為這是有關我國產化請你簡短能不能維持百分之六十的這個國產化的要求你不要告訴我你不涉入這個經營權你已經百分之四十的股份了你已經可以只派董監事了"},{"start":8625.251,"end":8650.263,"text":"你已經有董經事在裡面,你跟我講說你不涉入經營的一個建議甚至你的主張,這我是不能接受的你是在騙外人,你不要騙人家代話是,委員好,那個海勝風場,中央公司佔15%的股權我們有派一席董事,那麼在國產化的這個規定上我們會指示我們的指派的董事呢,在這個合資公司裡面做監督"},{"start":8651.809,"end":8665.073,"text":"所以呢 會不會維持主張60%的國產化就依照國家的政策來辦理對 而且是你們的計畫書喔我沒有額外你們計畫書就要這樣承諾要求好 謝謝 以上好 謝謝好 我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":8707.227,"end":8717.194,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":8779.787,"end":8781.203,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":8853.2,"end":8853.968,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":8947.858,"end":8949.087,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":9000.052,"end":9000.135,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":9033.561,"end":9035.885,"text":"好 繼續開會 現在請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 我們邀請部長請郭部長"},{"start":9055.922,"end":9078.883,"text":"委員好 部長好 部長我們現在總預算裡頭的公務預算1000億那之前我們也追加1000億所以台電希望要撥補這個2000億但是我們看到台電送來的這一份財務改善計畫裡面的報告我不知道你有沒有看過因為它裡面的結論是說就算"},{"start":9081.765,"end":9100.447,"text":"補了2000億在2026年跟2017年呢2027年呢 仍舊會虧損而且台電也特別說他沒有辦法單靠自身努力達到損益兩平而且他還建議喔他建議說如果燃料成本波動"},{"start":9101.408,"end":9121.259,"text":"那麼可考慮適度的來調整民生電價或者是政府持續來補助民生用電那如果依照台電的這一份財務改善計畫的報告來說那是不是 也就是說要繼續的要錢嗎還是要繼續的來漲電價 請教部長"},{"start":9127.884,"end":9136.054,"text":"報告委員我想我們在請這個大院同意撥補這個錢主要是在協助我們改善台電的財務"},{"start":9139.215,"end":9160.227,"text":"當然啊 但是你也曾經講過啊你說如果拿到撥補這2000億如果還在漲電價那就是你下台的時候啊我們聽到了這句話覺得你非常有gas啊所以我們很期待這一份台電的財務計畫的報告但是我們看到了也就是說即使再撥補這個2000億仍舊仍舊 還有兩個方案"},{"start":9165.427,"end":9166.811,"text":"提出兩個方案繼續撥補還是說要漲民生電價請說明"},{"start":9172.129,"end":9192.879,"text":"漲不漲價這個我想委員應該很清楚啦他的報告書已經這麼說了嘛那你認為會不會你認為會不會電價委員他們在決定不過我想行政院大概會考慮未來這個補助的部分可能不會由台電來承擔就是由各個單位自己來編預算來撥補這樣子"},{"start":9198.362,"end":9216.056,"text":"那台電我們現在沒有辦法做未來長期的這個假設所以我們也是就這個115年114、115、116嘛我們大概是談這樣然後大概117、118算出來大概就是會虧損主要還是因為這個洞比較大"},{"start":9217.037,"end":9243.258,"text":"那我們又要借錢拿借錢來做那再來未來的這個我們相信不過我就我的專業來看跟委員報告也就是說因為這個牽扯到材料的這個原料的價格不是控制在自己手上這個我們都要去海外去買一些原料不管是煤或者是這個天然氣這些都是要向外購買"},{"start":9244.099,"end":9259.151,"text":"大部長您這麼回答 也就是台電的這個財務改善計畫那麼您目前所回答跟他們的論點是相同喔那所以民眾看到這個會害怕我即使在波普 因為之前"},{"start":9259.591,"end":9265.496,"text":"你們一再說台電吸收的民生用電2800億但是我們再看到2023年其實我們增資的部分呢已經預算編列是2500億又來一個特別預算是500億如果再加上這2000億等於在三年就有5000億耶"},{"start":9279.589,"end":9282.331,"text":"這就是人民的納稅錢耶所以人民希望的是大家必須要有一套方案讓人民可以知道可以安心嘛尤其在現在通本的這個情況啊"},{"start":9292.623,"end":9317.17,"text":"報告委員現在我們非常同意委員的指教就是說民生的部分民生的部分我們來努力來努力維持這個希望能夠讓這些審議委員能夠同意不漲價民生的部分不漲價我謝謝你的回答因為現在真的民眾很辛苦但是對那個出口的"},{"start":9318.01,"end":9345.193,"text":"他的业务是出口的而且他有很高利润的我们希望他可以这个接受市场的变动的价格好我现在听到部长你诚意的回答也看到民众的心声民生的店价不涨这个这第一个但是我们看到你还是要解决问题也就是在你整个也就是我本身要请教何能"},{"start":9346.414,"end":9367.085,"text":"在你的任內 在賴清德總統的任內 會不會演繹你這又便宜 全世界又認可的 我們不用到目前為止 本席一直希望在這個委員會 在大院執行的時候我也特別要求 本席特別要求你也答應的 光電 風電 天然氣"},{"start":9369.346,"end":9386.286,"text":"接收站以及相關的發電量建設計這個進度你必須逐年的方式來公佈也就是列出每一年的進度跟目標但是到目前為止你答應的時候月底現在已經一月了我們還沒有拿到你的內容為什麼會如此呢"},{"start":9388.769,"end":9405.008,"text":"部長 這是你在大院跟在經濟委員會答應本席的今天已經1月8號本席希望要信所承諾這些就是人民希望要知道的是不是要如期趕快拿出你的這個進度跟目標呢"},{"start":9407.026,"end":9425.766,"text":"我們如果承諾的事情應該是都會如期的交上來那為什麼沒有如期呢是非常暴露出了什麼狀況呢那我回去以後再了解一下好 所以請你敬訴送來我們希望能夠知道我們整個能源究竟要怎麼做"},{"start":9426.486,"end":9438.234,"text":"所以我再一次請教因為大家都知道全世界現在對於核能他們是接受的那請教部長在你的任內以及賴清德總統的任內那會不會核電來研議呢會不會來解除我們用電的壓力嗎"},{"start":9444.278,"end":9463.44,"text":"這個是我們的選項之一,但我們朝這個方面,我們還有三個基本原則在第一個就是所有的國人都能夠同意,然後核廢料的處理沒有問題第三個,它是安全的"},{"start":9463.92,"end":9481.369,"text":"那我也講過了其實我們大家都在朝這個方面在努力朝這個方向而且是選項之一我們也希望解除用電的壓力我也希望這個可以成真你們好好去評估跟研討那接下來本席要請教台智電引發了公會的不滿也到了立法院來抗議所以本席要請教因為之前"},{"start":9489.053,"end":9512.955,"text":"中鋼公會抗議呢?它不是沒有道理的為什麼呢?因為中鋼有轉投資失敗的前例也就是興達海基那興達海基在2018年4月份成立之後配合著我們風電的國廠化政策的成立那資本額34億也因為去年我們國廠化的政策改變他們賠了多少?賠了64億"},{"start":9516.793,"end":9543.378,"text":"64億 所以我們統購的方式風險都在於台積電身上那麼整個開發商他們的風險是又低又賺保所以本席要請教本席要請教 我知道你也有一些看法但是本席首先要請教也就是說如果你還在我們的商業界你是中鋼的董事長 你會投資嗎你會投資嗎"},{"start":9546.667,"end":9565.595,"text":"如果這公司是我的我一定投資你一定投資你一定投資當然那為什麼工會的抗議會這麼大呢工會是員工嘛員工不一定懂得董事會的決策那這個更糟糕喔一個公司如果沒有員工他就沒有董事會了對不對"},{"start":9566.935,"end":9571.398,"text":"不是他不知道 而且是他被前車之鑒嚇到了34億最後賠了64億欸 員工當然緊張啊報告委員我想這是溝通的問題溝通的問題那是不是你們溝通有問題如果他溝通順暢的話那我相信公衛也會支持好"},{"start":9588.05,"end":9600.02,"text":"那你歸咎在他們的抗議是溝通本席希望能夠真正了解他的狀況是如何但是本席就要請問對於整個台積電你的損益跟風險的評估你認為呢我認為是可行啊"},{"start":9607.133,"end":9618.663,"text":"你認為是可行所以如果你還在商界你是中鋼的董事長你也會投資但是我們有前車之鑒也就是新達海基人工很緊張沒什麼一樣的標準就都一樣了對不對他會嚇一跳啊因為你的政策隨時可以轉彎啊"},{"start":9627.071,"end":9647.731,"text":"就因為政策的轉彎從34億的資本額竟然去年因為這個政策轉彎而賠了這個64億我們就專家他們評估的這個結果專家評估為什麼他會虧那麼多基本上是學習曲線能力不足"},{"start":9648.852,"end":9656.037,"text":"那這個更離譜 政府的政策改變學習曲線又不足 哇 那當然虧損年齡當然我們員工會很緊張啊所以就是說 其實他要做這個"},{"start":9664.244,"end":9681.923,"text":"剛剛講那個風電的部分那個地方水下基礎那個是新的東西新的東西其實坦白講我不知道當初為什麼會請中綱做這個事情但是就我現在來看你今天講出這個論點就是我還蠻敬佩你的"},{"start":9685.836,"end":9712.987,"text":"沒有說政府要我們的公司做什麼我們一定要做學習取信衛族的時候讓我們的員工賠了這麼多錢這是政府對不起中鋼啊對不對我認為應該是中鋼的中鋼的經營者要自己要深刻的所以你現在是部長中鋼的經營者必須要去好好的省思這是部長您現在的因為您也是督導者我們也希望台自電的這個事件"},{"start":9714.548,"end":9741.287,"text":"所以台式電這個我就跟他講嘛你可以推出你可以推出當然可以推出當然可以推出隨時都可以推出好 謝謝你要由金油溝通最後一個議題我給你喔也就是光電建制的問題我們一再認為太陽人2025年要20幾個萬但是到目前為止已經在王美樺部長的時候她說跳票了我非常的敬佩她跳票"},{"start":9741.667,"end":9770.313,"text":"他承認然後延到2026年但是我們基於這個統計報導2024年你總共才14.22GW你沒有達到還是再度跳票沒有達到17GW而且據報導今年我們的量是有史以來四年以來最低所以本席要請教部長你要怎麼因應原因到底是什麼你的進度還會再跳票嗎是不是會影響本席非常關心的"},{"start":9771.033,"end":9783.72,"text":"我們的遠大目標2030年我們要達到燃氣五成再生能源三成每兩成因為本席非常的關心每兩成務必一定要這個達到請教因應方案"},{"start":9788.035,"end":9808.785,"text":"我們現在一直都在討論這個方案 包括行政院也好 包括總統府也好我想這個是國家重大的事情市長你現在一直討論 然後你就一直跳票啊2026年你17GW還是沒達到啊 14.22啊那今年 今年據報導又是4年來最低的建制啊"},{"start":9809.685,"end":9835.03,"text":"那會不會再跳票 會不會我們為了要防止再度跳票我們會反省過去為什麼造成跳票 是然後來改善 是然後來追上我們應該要有的這個進度 是這個我們目前正在做好 所以你也把你們目前正在做檢討的方案預計的時程請宿命正在給本席 是的我們一起來達到 檢媒謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":9838.753,"end":9858.712,"text":"謝謝楊春衣委員 謝謝部長 請回然後我們接下來請一下劉奕林委員好 謝謝主席部長先休息 我請中郵的方董事長請中郵方董事長"},{"start":9870.465,"end":9896.784,"text":"董事長我們都知道我們國家缺乏自產的這個能源高達97%都是從國外進口而來的所以我們為了讓我們能源能夠穩定在2022年的時候我們就從國外探採工作計畫希望說我們能夠自主能源能夠達到10%但是到了2024年的現在我們的油源跟我們天然氣在我們中油的"},{"start":9897.765,"end":9914.357,"text":"那個鏈產的量大概是4.89%跟2.98%達到這個10%這個目標相距還很大所以要請教董事長那我們中油跟其他國家的合作的那個探勘的這個作業什麼時候可以達到10%什麼時候你們有什麼預計什麼時候"},{"start":9921.618,"end":9937.334,"text":"我很難跟委員報告說我預計什麼時候原因是怎麼樣呢就是在國外的碳勘或者是併購相關的礦區它都會隨著國際的情勢會有很多的一些變化所以在併購礦區的部分"},{"start":9938.888,"end":9953.695,"text":"我們一直希望就是說委員會這邊能給我們公司在探勘預算能夠有足夠預算探勘預算一直給你們我就講了2005年到2023年我們在周邊海域探勘花了31億"},{"start":9956.252,"end":9967.584,"text":"絕本無歸到現在還沒有結果是不是如果我們跟其他國家合作的話這個結果會更好像我們在跟澳洲探勘的原油我們每年可以拿回300萬噸"},{"start":9970.495,"end":9985.724,"text":"300萬桶拿回300萬桶跟泥日的話我們每年可以拿回780萬桶所以是不是用合作的方式會比我們自己在周邊海域探勘來得有成效對 目前我們把重心就放在所以你們有沒有專家來做一個評估是"},{"start":9986.874,"end":9996.966,"text":"那尤其你剛剛講的風險問題現在中東國家中東國家的話我們看到以色列跟巴勒斯坦這個國家這個戰爭已經一年的那未來我們在這邊投資的有這個將近有5%的卡達的液化天然氣的股權的問題你們有在評估風險嗎"},{"start":10006.113,"end":10016.363,"text":"風險有評估跟卡達這個合作我們認為是沒有問題的因為我們跟卡達長期以往有很長久的關係根據以往的過程經歷來看的話卡達這個國家是沒有短掃給台灣這邊所以你認為這個風險不很大我們認為風險不大"},{"start":10030.148,"end":10055.356,"text":"所以要穩定 所以我們投資這個預算的投資在這邊效益還是可以保證沒有問題我們認為 我們信心度很高好 董事長這句話我們就放心了我們一直擔心的就是中東方面的投資那我們希望這個所有的風險評估啊你現在是說沒有問題但是我們希望你們做一個風險評估之後到立法院來做報告好不好 不定時的做這個評估可以嗎 好"},{"start":10056.736,"end":10076.378,"text":"接下來的話就請教董事長因為我們那個在桃園有個三接站三接站我們要天然氣的這個三接站那因為我們外移了455公尺之後那我們很多的漁船要繞道而行甚至我們的天然氣要進來的時候很多漁船都要停下"},{"start":10077.079,"end":10078.962,"text":"把網收起來 停工所以影響了整個漁民的生計比如說他們要到很遠才能夠出海去捕魚他們每年增加了將近10萬塊的燃料的成本"},{"start":10092.56,"end":10108.715,"text":"但我們給他的補助一次性的補助了這個16萬但是他一年的油費就消耗掉了那影響了整個海域的這個生態海流的方式讓漁獲量也減少那有沒有請專家來評估對他們捕魚整個環境影響的話給他們一個相對應的這個補助嗎"},{"start":10113.109,"end":10141.348,"text":"是跟委員報告有關三階這個漁業補償歷經了相當的時間分三階段來處理第一階段是在民國大概90年第一階段都已經處理完了現在可是陸續的捕魚的環境一直都很惡化所以他們抗議聲很大你們有沒有聽到他們的抗議一再請你們去開會我要說明第一階段有關那個漁業權的部分已經補償漁業權也已經撤銷掉這個16萬已經補償我說了第二階段我們補助了大概有"},{"start":10144.273,"end":10145.976,"text":"0.79億這第三階段外推"},{"start":10146.716,"end":10175.555,"text":"這個部分又補貼了補償了0.56億了所以董事長你這樣的補貼方式講這個金額是很不公道的這是因為他們的漁獲量減少或者是說他們的燃料費增加你們用這個海警這個我們的交通船跟這個警戒船來補助他們每一年有300趟次這樣的補助但是你知道嗎他們每次出海捕魚的話本來一次性可以有2萬塊的收入現在不到1萬塊"},{"start":10177.196,"end":10205.261,"text":"那這樣子的話你的補助你講清楚是不對的他們出海都是虧損回來的而且你知道他們四居都在捕魚他們的生計他們未來活下去啊所以你應該跟他們再多多的溝通了解他們整個捕魚環境的改變變化由我們專家學者來做這個立基點來給他們適應的來補助好不好適當的補助好不好好 可以我想我們可以跟他們進行對談再來大家互相再來討論一下"},{"start":10206.141,"end":10213.311,"text":"你們談過了 可是你們沒有去做一個補助或者說明你們談過多少次 你知道嗎 董事長我不知道這個數字好 你知道有沒有在談是有談 為什麼要談 抗議非常大"},{"start":10224.602,"end":10240.591,"text":"我們不希望說影響你們的作業你們在2028年的話就開始要試營運了嘛 對不對如果說你們這方面沒有處理好的話會影響你的作業因為你影響他們的生計他們為了要活下去繼續補育但是餘貨量一直減少"},{"start":10241.571,"end":10260.918,"text":"這是很嚴重的問題我們三接的話今年就會試營運了這第一點第二個有關於漁民這個補償相關的事項我們會再跟他們再繼續溝通所以你們做的是提早了但是影響他們整個漁獲量這部分請董事長這邊你們有去溝通有去開會但是沒有給一個答案去處理"},{"start":10263.246,"end":10272.693,"text":"董事長這邊可以承諾嗎可以承諾你一定要去處理要不然的話到時候他們又在抗爭的話會影響整個作業了好不好好謝謝謝謝林議員謝謝方董事長請鄭正前委員質詢"},{"start":10293.308,"end":10297.832,"text":"謝主席我想先請一下郭部長還有我們方董事長 鍾游還有台湯的吳董事長吳英豪"},{"start":10311.915,"end":10327.334,"text":"謝主席因為今天是針對經濟部的所屬單位的非營業基金還有中油跟台糖的預算剛剛就是聽到部長其實在回應楊松英委員在有關於中鋼他們工會上來抗爭的時候"},{"start":10328.556,"end":10342.451,"text":"剛剛部長特別提到一個覺得說他們那個星達海基他們這邊虧損因為學習曲線不足我覺得這個點我聽到其實某個部分我是覺得正面的就是說坦白說公務體系也必須要有很大的一個學習的部分"},{"start":10343.152,"end":10369.506,"text":"可是在這邊的時候我就想到另外一個問題也是最近經濟部內部碰到就是這九個月來有三個次長離職的問題那我相信很多人也都關心整個經濟部的人事的穩定那因為我出了這部分在請部長回應之前的時候因為我也聽到另外的狀態就是說在經濟部當中據說有所謂的那個薯條三兄弟就是部長知道什麼叫薯條三兄弟嗎"},{"start":10372.346,"end":10389.527,"text":"不知道就是有三個次長跟一級主管他經常站在你的辦公室裡面然後被你訓斥被你罵這樣子所以他們壓力很大我不知道是不是有這樣的一個狀態不過就是說基本上就是說有三個單位那他們的署長就是"},{"start":10390.187,"end":10410.631,"text":"經常還有次長經常就是安苡人罵那某個部分是你要求多啦因為你剛剛在回應那個學習曲線不足的時候我某個部分覺得你進來帶這樣子的一個大的機構某個部分是正面的因為大的機構確實需要有一些不同的刺激那對於次長的那個異動情況這麼頻繁部長你有沒有什麼說明報告委員謝謝你給我這個機會說明我三個次長"},{"start":10417.413,"end":10438.606,"text":"第一個次長是我520上任他6月10號離職他那個是借退了所以他沒有520隨著舊的部會離開因為他是公務人員他是長次所以他等到他退休的時候因為我留任他他講說他有人生的規劃所以他離開了"},{"start":10439.824,"end":10460.472,"text":"那今年12月30日離開的陳正琦次長他也是520的時候要一起離開但是基於我們對國外的這些國安的問題有些條約是要進行我請他留下來幫忙一直到12月31日"},{"start":10462.153,"end":10485.843,"text":"所以這個是我們之間的默契那麼這個也是我們請這個行政院同意的讓他留半年這樣子這是這兩位第三位的次長是我的這個因為這個長賜換了所以我把我們的這個連次長升起來讓他當次長"},{"start":10487.608,"end":10509.363,"text":"那麼在工作上面他當然是沒有問題非常優秀所以我們會讓他當市長那在我們這個半年的過程裡面他也遭受到非常多這個來自於大院的這個壓力我們很多的委員都要求我們要所以立法院給的壓力比你給他壓力更大你意思是這樣子嗎"},{"start":10510.684,"end":10532.822,"text":"我想應該是這樣子那我想說部長這樣回應的時候呢我覺得我也尊重不過我要特別講到一個點就是說因為你畢竟從企業進來帶進一些企業的一個風格那我們也看過過去您在過去當中的時候也出過好幾次的包包括私言不斷的在跟委員致歉的問題比方說菲律賓案的時候呂宋島案"},{"start":10534.884,"end":10554.045,"text":"那我是覺得說從企業到公部門體系當中我希望說能夠有更好的一個轉環然後對於整個公務體系當中我們希望有改變有更好的一個績效因為你剛剛提到另外一個點就是說你覺得台灣智慧電能公司如果中鋼不投資你他們可以隨時撤掉你的意思是這樣子嗎?沒錯OK"},{"start":10554.705,"end":10570.792,"text":"因為他是這個雖然是這個發起者啦但是我們會有這個募資第二次募資的部分第二次募資的時候他就可以退所以你這個部分會很清楚的部分給中鋼他們如果真的就評估覺得不適合投資是可以不要投的OK好謝謝部長"},{"start":10572.633,"end":10592.48,"text":"接下來我想問一下中油的部分因為我們看到中油的部分有投資海勝離岸豐電我想了解一下海勝離岸豐電的時候因為他要投資40億現金然後要融資大概86億元我想問一下當時為什麼中油要去投資海勝當時決策過程是怎麼樣"},{"start":10595.371,"end":10620.314,"text":"報告委員覺得這個過程很單純就是對公司來講我們也算是排碳大幅所以我們也需要綠電同時這個海勝風場這個轉投資公司呢在我們評估下來它是有效益的所以你們覺得是有獲利然後對於中油之後的那個排碳的一個減排的部分是有幫助因為我剛才查了一下中油在過去轉投資當中其實不多"},{"start":10621.054,"end":10648.376,"text":"不多而且金額也都不多包括台灣證交所只有0.79億台船只有7.94億然後另外就是海外就是投資開發公司只有0.52億金額都不大那投資海勝很大那這個部分的時候呢我們就希望說針對這個部分不要變成都是去幫政策買單我們希望是真的對企業有幫助所以剛剛顧部長特別提到說學習曲線不足如果說他們覺得評估"},{"start":10649.457,"end":10666.684,"text":"不是可以不要投我希望企業基本上就能夠更遵照一個商業的一個機制去辦理好不好好 那我接下來要問一個部分就因為石油基金在114年度當中有編列一個電動機車的一個產業環境價值補助的部分那麼針對這個部分有6.78億元那這補助主要在針對電動機車的補助那我想請問一下部長這邊"},{"start":10675.968,"end":10685.042,"text":"目前台灣的電動機車的市占率大概多少然後我們目前的一個市售比大概多少我可不可以請我們產發署可以"},{"start":10688.94,"end":10698.634,"text":"報告委員目前電動機車的保全台電動全台機車的保有量有1465萬輛電動車在截至去年11月有"},{"start":10708.3,"end":10732.221,"text":"因為時間有限你們針對這部分我針對這部分我要特別問的是因為Google的部分因為一直被檢舉它其實國產化不足可是又拿到了我們很多的一個經濟部推動電動機車產業補助這個部分國產化的一個補助那我知道這部分目前還在糾紛當中因為包括Google VIVA這個車款還有JGO這個車款的時候都被檢舉"},{"start":10733.422,"end":10755.98,"text":"他國產化的部分有問題那針對這部分部長這邊有沒有特別的說明是 報告委員我們依法行事針對這個部分因為我覺得看到目前的一個產發署的一個回應的時候我覺得感覺不夠清楚希望事後再給本席針對這個問題更清楚的一個報告檢討的一個報告好不好是的"},{"start":10758.422,"end":10784.474,"text":"好那我最後問台糖這個部分因為台糖的一個金融事業部我問一下就是我們預計就是去年的時候本來可以由負轉正結果還是負的那今年的預算當中的時候呢還比去年在持續的往上增加覺得會越來越好可不可以請台糖董事長這邊做一個簡單的一個說明"},{"start":10788.055,"end":10813.59,"text":"金融事業這個部分可以可以委員報告謝謝是跟委員報告我們金融事業部蝴蝶蘭的部分美國的虧損是最大那為什麼美國虧損最大主要是受到兩個大的因素影響第一個因素就是那個疫情期間造成的影響那第二個是俄烏戰爭之後整個航運的混亂還有這個貨櫃"},{"start":10818.773,"end":10838.965,"text":"謝謝你回應不過這個部分的時候我想特別問的是金融事業部就是去年本來預計要由副轉正沒有達標然後明年的預算的時候還持續看好那我希望你們之後來跟本席做一個很清楚的說明有關於金融事業部在美國加州的分公司的狀態不斷的虧損"},{"start":10841.586,"end":10867.816,"text":"目前虧損的時候呢已經欠了3億8千多萬的虧損然後還欠母公司也是3億多元那我希望針對這個部分因為審計部有要求就是針對美國公司是不是要有一個退場的機制要做一個清楚的判斷那我們請台堂之後在本辦公室一個很清楚的說明針對金融事業這部分的一個發展好 謝謝"},{"start":10877.168,"end":10885.764,"text":"請賴瑞隆委員發言謝謝主席 請郭部長"},{"start":10897.148,"end":10923.5,"text":"部長辛苦了部長委員好我先請教因為大南方新矽谷這個計畫對南方當然相當重要那AMD要在南部設研發中心那我想問一下的是除了台南以外高雄的AMD的部分也有要設研發中心那目前的進度到哪邊了這高雄的AMD應該是跟中山大學的合作對那在今年的第二季要啟用是這樣嗎它因為"},{"start":10926.684,"end":10941.521,"text":"沒關係直接說可以來您說是雅灣的這個在雅灣的啟動對在雅灣區嘛AMD在雅灣要設置高雄的研發中心那在今年的第二季來預定來啟動嗎是這個訊息是正確的是也是經濟部協助來輔導來推動是的好那"},{"start":10948.388,"end":10958.747,"text":"目前的部分照這樣訊息看來有包括像西光子包括高速的封裝設計研發人員那預定會有三四十個人進駐是這樣嗎"},{"start":10960.843,"end":10981.469,"text":"是的是齁好那當然也是跟中山大學還有包括月光包括遠程半導體等合作啦齁也希望那我們希望這樣的速度能夠持續來推動啦齁那也能夠順利的讓台南高雄這兩個大南方的計畫能夠順利來推動是謝謝委員好謝謝部長那再來我也請教一下輝達NVIDIA的在"},{"start":10983.35,"end":10990.057,"text":"內湖當然設了第一座研發中心那第二座的包括它的總部跟研發中心有沒有機會在高雄來設立"},{"start":10995.745,"end":11013.639,"text":"剛剛這個輝達的執行長Jason在美國他有公告說他在今年的六月來台灣的時候那麼會在我們的電腦展來公布落腳台灣的地點跟在怎麼做但是他們實際一直都還在我們國內在調查"},{"start":11016.633,"end":11044.298,"text":"那他主要的考量地點 考量的狀況會是什麼呢他主要考慮的考量狀況他的總部啦 就是第二總部對 應該是說他的總部加研發中心啦 對不對對 研發的部分他是跟這個鴻海在做這個智慧城市對然後那個台北灣因為是落在高雄對 台北灣在高雄嘛所以這個一部分的研發會共同在那個地方所以研發的部分還會繼續在高雄嘛包括第一"},{"start":11045.745,"end":11061.842,"text":"因為他的研究的項目太多了所以他可能會分散那這個部分可能要NVIDIA他們自己這屬於他的商業精密那我問一下部長啦那高雄有沒有機會爭取到這個總部跟研發中心在高雄落腳"},{"start":11065.004,"end":11092.521,"text":"這個我想這個對輝達來講他選項就是我以前經常在講的花若盛開蝴蝶自來那我問一下 環境夠那他應該就會來部長那我問你你也說切出生的啦你覺得高雄的環境具不具備了如果是我個人因為我出生屏東高雄離我最近對所以高雄你認為很有機會啦"},{"start":11094.005,"end":11104.339,"text":"如果是我如果是你 所以從企業家的角度來看是有嘛那我們希望大力的來促成部長如果有機會的話 大力的來促成高雄不管是各種條件別忘了他是台南人"},{"start":11106.161,"end":11134.874,"text":"所以有機會台南高雄對不對那我們希望多整體來促成我們在看因為以我們現在大南方這個這樣的一個環境任何一個投資者應該會選項在這個高雄或者台南這個是就條件來講的話但是其他的其他的地區包括桃園新竹或者台北新北這些都已經成熟的環境"},{"start":11136.081,"end":11155.026,"text":"所以他很重要是他的人才的取得人才的能夠招聘的部分是不是他的角色關鍵我想他會選擇這個研發總部第一個頂尖大學所在地第二個人才能夠順利招聘那"},{"start":11156.46,"end":11185.361,"text":"對他來講齁其實全台灣都適合他為什麼因為他所做的他要做的這個硬體都在台灣的西部啊所以我可以很正確的講就是台灣的西部一定是他選擇落腳的地方博不朗因為青大交大包括中山包括半島理學院等等也都在推動了齁包括這些的市場辦包括台北萬也在高雄我認為其實高雄應該是有相當大的一個機會啦那當然希望部長"},{"start":11186.061,"end":11205.103,"text":"就與公於私都有機會幫忙讓座落在南台灣不管是高雄或台南我認為對於整個台灣的整體均衡發展都是相當有助益的回答因為對我們台灣來講非常非常的重要所以我們第一個原則就是請他務必在台灣能夠建立他第二個營運總號"},{"start":11206.404,"end":11226.676,"text":"我們全力來協助我想水電都充分供應包括廠房甚至包括所有的需要的人才我想經濟部全力來協助經濟部一定全力協助輝達在台灣任何一個地方他只要選擇做為營運總部我們一定全力配合另外輝達的第二算力中心的部分有機會落在高雄嗎"},{"start":11230.109,"end":11256.968,"text":"機率比較高機率高因為第一個台北灣已經有一個那在第二座的話高雄的機率很大而且這個耗電量大高雄電力是充裕的不過這個變數還是有變數還是有這個他跟國科會的這個國科會這一邊的這個配合應該也會蠻多的所以就經濟部的角度來講我只要給他水給他電給他人才"},{"start":11257.688,"end":11276.267,"text":"所以這個是沒有問題部長希望高雄雅灣花若盛開希望紅海蝴蝶自來好不好是的好 再來我請教一下部長大林埔先生上次謝謝部長親自趕到大林埔去鄉親很有感部長親自前往其實很有感那我想要問的現在是進入到了環評跟都市計畫作業的階段"},{"start":11277.668,"end":11303.859,"text":"部長能不能同步啟動 上次其實鄉親們很急啦 已經從林全院長去已經經過9年了 那蘇院長合併也經過5年了能不能盡快的有一些的登記 或者有一些的這個啟動相關的程序呢我想這因為我回來以後啊 有跟這個院長報告我們那天到大林埔 然後鄉親大家所表達的意見那麼我們現在會快速的啟動一些這個讓"},{"start":11306.26,"end":11326.468,"text":"鄉親可以希望的這個模式來進行那內政部的部分我們也跟內政部溝通了是不是內政部也同意把他這些業務移交到經濟部部長能不能今年啟動至少在區塊的選擇讓鄉親們選因為你環評走一走有可能一兩年包括你的那個在後面"},{"start":11327.468,"end":11344.779,"text":"對 那我意思說能不能登記這件事情讓鄉親們早點來做選擇跟登記但登記完你還是有可能會做一些變動但至少你讓鄉親們已經等了這麼多年開始做一些選擇跟登記不要讓他們再等了我們會跟這個委員所指導的這個方向"},{"start":11345.379,"end":11372.851,"text":"我們來加速進行努力在上半年讓大家登記登記完當然不是最後的定案啦但是登記完你才能知道到底多少人需要土地多少人需要拿走現金多少人需要房子那你才能夠規劃你整體到底的狀況也許想像中的跟實際上有落差那你登記完了之後當然還是有部分鄉親會變動但是你經過登記之後你才能全盤了解你整體的一個狀況我認為這個有而且也會讓鄉親更安心說確實已經動起來了不是還停留在這個規劃的階段了"},{"start":11373.991,"end":11391.145,"text":"是 我們朝這個模式來努力那另外剛剛有提到 部長有提到就是說這個相關的一些跟社會住宅的部分我希望跟內政部加速溝通啦如果可以 內政部願意當然更好如果不行 可能請經濟部又自辦 好嗎是"},{"start":11392.886,"end":11415.235,"text":"這個也要盡快來定案因為這個已經都有對外有說明出去這要盡快定案那最後一個是對於市居者在當地的我還是希望部長給予更多的支持啦真正住在那邊長期住在那邊的他們長年以來對忍受空屋忍受一些空安的一些風險那我認為其實真正住在那邊的人給他多一點照顧其實並不過分我希望部長在這一塊再從優從寬來做處理"},{"start":11417.196,"end":11438.19,"text":"是的 報告委員這是我們感同身受啦所以我們會全力以赴我也相信未來如果遷春之後那邊的價值會遠遠多於現在政府所付出的價值而且我相信它有機會創造人民跟政府跟整個產業多贏的一個局面啦那我希望在部長的任內有機會我們把這件事情做一個好的處理是 我們一起努力好 謝謝部長 謝謝"},{"start":11444.315,"end":11460.177,"text":"中午不休息 我們延長開會時間 現在請洪孟凱委員發言主席謝謝 麻煩請郭智慧部長請郭部長"},{"start":11467.892,"end":11489.934,"text":"好 部長好 委員好部長 其實本席一樣也關心今天上午這邊看到揮打的這一個辦公室的一個選址的部分你有回答是說這個黃恩勳董事長他有6月會宣布在哪邊嘛 對不對剛剛聽上一位委員的一個質詢一直強調南台灣那其實北台灣不管是本席所在的新北市"},{"start":11490.555,"end":11504.757,"text":"也有透過經發局也跟輝達這邊來保持密切的聯繫並且我們提供包括說林口的工醫工業區或者是淡水的這個土地也有可能是潛在的機會台北市也說有那"},{"start":11505.859,"end":11529.781,"text":"本時就好奇啊 其實只要輝達能夠跟留台灣啦我想這都是好事啦 對不對那但是在這部分說是不是不要讓各縣市好像變成是大家都要單打獨鬥或者是說大家都要擠破頭那這樣子好像是有你沒我經濟部在這個這一個部分上面可以扮演什麼樣更積極的角色是啊 報告委員我們有跟這個輝達"},{"start":11531.522,"end":11556.284,"text":"表示說經濟部的這些support經濟部可以支援他什麼他希望在台灣落腳以後他有什麼樣的條件那他們也很客氣的回答說他們已經有一組人在台灣各地私下去看私下一直在轉然後最後會提供到美國他的董事會來做決定所以他們也很謝謝經濟部對他們的這個關注"},{"start":11558.746,"end":11582.811,"text":"那我個人所了解的就是說我們在經濟部所了解的就是說那他會選擇什麼地方基本上他大概要三公頃的土地他們的條件開出來大概的條件有開出來三公頃的土地要低度建築他要低度建築他不像我們一般的這個ICT的公司說我要去十樓二十樓他希望三樓"},{"start":11584.051,"end":11609.969,"text":"他三樓 所以他這裡面還是有一些問題就是說他希望那個那個鑑幣率要大一點這些是條件對 這些是公開的一個條件嘛那等於說各縣市現在就變成是說我相信各縣市長也都摩拳霍霍也都拜託下面經發局啦 相關的局處趕快找關係 找管道然後去跟輝達來接觸那這樣搞得好像全台灣各縣市在比武招親啊"},{"start":11612.096,"end":11631.65,"text":"但是這個是揮打自己設下的條件我們也沒有辦法說你一定要怎樣是所以經濟部能不能有一個更明確或說更公平公開的一個資訊來協助各縣市呢還是說這樣子會變成是各縣市來去跟揮打可能揮打可以個別談更有利的條件"},{"start":11632.686,"end":11657.473,"text":"這也許是他的想法他的想法他其實已經進行了一年多了那所以我認為這些事情我們現在就是跟他講請他到哪裡他其實通常也都是謝謝我們的協助部長在這件事情上面本席講當然在商言商沒有辦法 回答他就是現在自首可樂可是我們能不能透過這樣的一個管道即便"},{"start":11658.593,"end":11680.11,"text":"今天揮打落腳在任何一個縣市當然本席希望是說能夠落腳在本席的新北市可是只要落腳在台灣都好可是落腳在台灣之後還有其他縣市在這一次我覺得也很好的點是說這一次很多縣市也都提出非常不錯的地方來吸引國際的知名企業"},{"start":11680.911,"end":11696.104,"text":"那如果說這樣的話經濟部能不能利用這個機會來盤點說到底各縣市有哪些是好用的點那未來可能針對這幾個部分我們經濟部主動去海外來募集或是召集一些高科技企業他們針對這幾個點"},{"start":11697.725,"end":11720.393,"text":"是 你可以理解我意思嗎 譬如說 如果說到時候輝達選定在新北但台北的市北科也不錯啊 高雄剛剛提到的 台南也不錯啊那台南 高雄 台北這幾次所列出來的這些地點是不是可以把它給匯集起來 變成是我們下一次主動出籍去找沒有輝達 那能不能有其他的高科技公司來選擇台灣"},{"start":11721.713,"end":11740.331,"text":"是啊這個報告委員我想我們投資台灣我們有這樣的經濟部有這樣的一個單位那我們會把委員剛剛所指導的這樣的一個條件我們會做成這是一個範本然後給所有投資來台灣投資的特別是AI的部分"},{"start":11740.951,"end":11765.887,"text":"所以我們現在已經有考慮好幾個這個國家的這個比較大的這個土地就像剛才您所說的是四北科或者是今天在新北市其實也有蠻多的地方我們都知道它有10公頃以上的這個地方我們會把這些如果今天是經濟部的產業園區我們就會整個這個把它建築起來然後讓他們直接進來"},{"start":11766.747,"end":11785.392,"text":"那他就是不需要再去買土地蓋廠房讓他們快速的可以進到台灣然後在整個的這個產業裡面產生加值的效果可以讓這些公司知道說來台灣投資是方便快速而且能夠有一條龍的服務完全是這樣"},{"start":11786.192,"end":11807.577,"text":"部長另外一個部分我想今天因為特別有審查到我們明年的這個相關的基金要點我請教一下冬天到了很多人都會想要去這個安排泡湯行程那你知道如果說在台灣安排這個溫泉泡湯的話溫泉的好溫泉的美應該要是誰來負責去宣傳"},{"start":11808.637,"end":11825.666,"text":"這應該是屬於我們如果對國外的人的宣傳是我們大概會透過外貿協會來建構這樣的一個廣宣的機制是由我們國貿署來主導那如果是國內的應該是我們商業發展署所會"},{"start":11827.927,"end":11853.143,"text":"對這樣來推廣但是現在因為這一部分因為都屬於各個地方所以他們的地方的特色現在是有國發會他們在推動一個地方創生所以我們現在都有在討論也謝謝委員的提示這個部分我們將會形成地方的特色所以在花蓮也好 台東也好 宜蘭也好"},{"start":11854.245,"end":11876.782,"text":"這都是我們的溫泉還有苗栗這些都是我們溫泉所擁有溫泉的地方那這個是我們的特色之一是部長這是我們的特色其實它也沒有那麼的大沒有說一定要國發會這邊來做因為為什麼我會特別提到說溫泉是要誰來宣傳就是因為溫泉是我們經濟部相關的一個管轄"},{"start":11877.683,"end":11905.388,"text":"我們經濟部有掌管水資源作業基金裡面就有針對溫泉這邊來讓經濟部可以跟地方政府收錢是的是啊那但是今天我們總共收入明年有95億而相關的一個經費或說相關的一個運用的部分但我們一直沒有看到說比較積極的去辦理跟地方政府來合作或說跟地方政府來結合或者是說跟觀光"},{"start":11906.989,"end":11926.411,"text":"來做一個結合各縣各部會單打獨鬥真的是已經過去了我們如果說連我們把集中資源要宣傳一個都不容易那更何況是現在各部會單打獨鬥來 部長是 謝謝委員的指導剛才所講的這個錢呢基本上是我們維護"},{"start":11928.433,"end":11941.628,"text":"維護這個溫泉的所需要的費用當然我想您剛才的指導之後我們會再回來再檢討然後把這個資源能夠能夠集中然後來服務所有的國人資源在你這邊啊"},{"start":11942.609,"end":11962.41,"text":"那這樣子我現在是不是說幾個有溫泉的部分像本席的新北市我們也有這個溫泉啊金山的溫泉也好或者說我們這個相關的這些溫泉其實也都是非常有名大家也都會了解能不能有比較具體的做法跟縣市還是跟觀光"},{"start":11963.351,"end":11980.061,"text":"能夠怎麼樣來結合來去做一個推動好的我們回去馬上檢討那馬上希望能夠推出第一波能夠趕在這個寒假這個新年假期啊就可以做一點這個基本的這個廣宣好非常好那什麼時候可以給本席相關的資料"},{"start":11984.402,"end":12003.013,"text":"兩個禮拜兩個禮拜內是告訴本席說你們要怎麼樣來推廣至少讓今年尤其今年相對來講是寒冬啊是冬天比較冷大家就想到溫泉讓溫泉可以變成是大家的一個DNA讓更多人知道台灣好的溫泉是好不好是兩個禮拜本席等您報告好的請黃建豪委員發言"},{"start":12020.42,"end":12039.079,"text":"好謝謝趙偉那我們請這個台糖公司董事長吳明昌董事長謝謝董事長好"},{"start":12040.393,"end":12056.236,"text":"委員好 董事長在今天的這個經營概括跟營業預算報告裡面您提到說台糖會配合所謂的政府的這個社福的政策來提供相關的土地嘛那在過去這些年裡面不管是針對這個長照式的住宿式長照機構也好"},{"start":12057.137,"end":12072.297,"text":"還是針對這個社會住宅也好都有提供蠻多的土地那我想問一下董事長這個提供土地部分你們是配合呢還是你們會主動的釋出盤點出這個閒置用地給地方政府來或是給電政部來使用以社宅為例的話"},{"start":12073.983,"end":12092.263,"text":"跟委員報告我們是盤點出來然後給那個地方政府或是中央政府需要的來篩選所以如果有在這個市中心金華區的部分你們提供了盤點出來的土地就讓可能內政部也好或地方政府來決定要怎麼樣來使用嘛是不是這樣子"},{"start":12093.351,"end":12112.538,"text":"大概是這樣 對再來這個社福完之後你的這個報告裡面有提到說同時也會配合能源政策優先的以閒置土地活化跟複合式利用的方式來規劃太陽能板的光電設施那我要問的是說在公司經營策略上面提供社福土地"},{"start":12113.718,"end":12126.189,"text":"跟提供這個設宅的這個新辦基地還有跟這個提供能源政策的這個設置太陽光電板的這幾個順位上面在市中心的話請問一下台南公司的策略會以什麼樣的策略為主這個是不是"},{"start":12133.496,"end":12151.935,"text":"如果是社會住宅或是說社福的這個這個設施的話因為要考慮到整個人口還有整個交通的所以會集中在市中心那如果是這個再生能源的話那我們目前的做法就是說比如說"},{"start":12152.535,"end":12176.188,"text":"跟這個地方政府他有這個制洪池的話我們就是水面的這個光電或是說我們各個建築物的這個屋頂型的這個太陽能板等等那個就不會比較會離開因為一部分的居民他還沒有辦法完全的這個接受這個就是會跟這個社宅或是說社福的設施會有一個地點的一個區隔"},{"start":12177.264,"end":12206.09,"text":"好 謝謝總經理那接下來剛剛因為你們剛剛提到政策當然如果是在為了提供可能社宅以後長照機可能要選擇市中心是交通比較方便的地方那就是因為你們有這個政策你們剛好這樣回應了所以我要提出一個個案當然台中這邊在這個台中的這個北屯區有一塊很完整的這個用地660多坪在市中心在捷運站旁邊那現階段你們是提供停車場來使用那後來最近有公告說要來蓋光電板"},{"start":12206.77,"end":12229.293,"text":"那這個土地分區呢它是第三種住宅區那我想我們都知道在市區的第三種住宅區啊它相對來講它的土地是比較利用價值比較高的那如果能夠來蓋社宅或是能夠來蓋這個社福機構我想對周邊的住戶來講它的使用會比較方便那如果你單純只使用這個用來只蓋光電板的話不覺得有點浪費嗎不知道台南的公司怎麼看待這個事情"},{"start":12230.094,"end":12253.63,"text":"我這邊跟委員報告一下我們那塊地是因為那個地方有停車的這個需求非常的強烈那我們這個得標的業者他主要是要做這個停車場他只是就是說他的車棚上面他會去裝設太陽能板他並不是說是為了以太陽能板為主是以停車需求為主我知道"},{"start":12254.45,"end":12269.9,"text":"來但是我現在還是要回到這公司你今天你是這個公司的角度來看嗎到底是出租給停車場來使用來蓋光電板對公司效益比較高呢還是說提供剛剛提到的不管是提供政府來提供社福土地或是來該社會住宅或是其他用途嗎因為今天"},{"start":12270.62,"end":12285.86,"text":"你如果蓋社福土地你去做長照機構也好或去做社會助長也好或做其他設施也好你的屋頂你一樣可以使用光電板了我沒有反對這件事情啊我今天講的是說今天這麼好的一個土地的區位它就在台中市的市中心結果呢"},{"start":12286.801,"end":12303.461,"text":"它是住宅用地喔 它也不是什麼農地 也不是什麼其他的用地它就是正住宅用地 而且在大馬路旁邊那結果你們台南公司這塊用地的使用方式這麼多年下來就只提供停車場 然後接下來蓋光電板那不就浪費了你們公司在資產運用上的這個效益了嗎"},{"start":12304.082,"end":12327.417,"text":"我想問的是說,而且在蓋這個光電板之前,我想地方上,不管是地方政府也好,或是里長也好,或周邊居民也好,他們其實事前,尤其是當地的居民,他們覺得說這個土地我們希望能夠有更有效的利用,因為那是一個市中心,難而有一個這麼完整空白的土地可以來使用,結果如果你們只用來蓋光電板跟停車場,不覺得很浪費嗎?"},{"start":12331.08,"end":12344.285,"text":"所以我們在辦這塊土地的標諸的時候我們是採取一個短期的一個標諸的一個期間短期是多久?是五年五年後是不是優先承租權一樣同樣業者?"},{"start":12347.194,"end":12363.269,"text":"我們5年之後假設說這個有這個社宅或是說社福的需求的話我們就會收回來了好這個時間也到了那我後續再請臺灣公司再跟我們辦公室來回報一下到底這後續要怎麼處理好不好好謝謝委員請邱志偉委員發言"},{"start":12381.657,"end":12396.525,"text":"謝謝主席 請台堂總經理跟董事長請吳董事長跟我們的陳總經理哇 今天5加1喔 5加1只有360秒來 這個董事長剛上任我想我先問總經理這個有機米"},{"start":12408.334,"end":12431.796,"text":"董事長你先休息一下因為你剛上面有機米現在台北市啊中小學都供應做營養午餐都是台南有機米你要把它擴展到全國啊高雄市啊台南市台中市都要用你們有機米那麼好的品質台北市都用了你們有沒有什麼計畫是是謝謝委員那委員講的也是我們所想的就是說你還走啊"},{"start":12433.489,"end":12445.218,"text":"你打入台北市那其他的縣市其他的都要去是我們會後續我們會一個月給我這個相關你們規劃報告那個台塘土地啊"},{"start":12446.658,"end":12463.084,"text":"這個土地多很容易被這個非法侵盜這個部分你們有沒有什麼方案目前有沒有相關統計說你們監管機制要如何去強化那你現在你們土地有多少被非法這個這個侵盜廢棄物有沒有相關數據包委員那我們"},{"start":12467.987,"end":12493.122,"text":"在這兩三年以來我們大幅的去加強我們土地巡查的相關的一個作業的一個機制以及我們在比較我們也篩選出來一些所謂的我們認為高風險的一個地區如果發現不法有沒有提告有你要積極作為要把你們土地管理好不要變成廢棄物的天堂"},{"start":12495.354,"end":12516.123,"text":"這個部分我提醒你把這個問題做徹底解決另外我告訴你們這個廠房停工損失包括你的土地稅會損失很多土地利用改善你們要加強去監理你知道我在說什麼嗎知道有些廠房停工已經到34年你要怎麼樣讓你的停工廠房去活化再利用"},{"start":12516.983,"end":12534.56,"text":"不要因為這個相關稅金所持那麼多這部分再請台東再去了解因為董事長剛剛上任我把問題點出來下一位請忠祐董事長跟總經理請方董事長跟張總經理兩位請回座"},{"start":12544.952,"end":12559.956,"text":"青能車上路全球已經有上萬輛青能車那現在台灣還是沒有任何的加薪站本來在高雄要設所作的加薪站你目前的規劃是延到什麼時候"},{"start":12561.133,"end":12575.576,"text":"跟委員報告嘉青站現在已經機械完工了那麼在這個月10號我們會遞件申請使用執照那麼當中同步在進行一些系統上的測試在進行中預計我們應該第二季應該可以取得使用我們落後太多了"},{"start":12576.417,"end":12600.313,"text":"就是說跟國際的氫能的這個發展我們已經落後太多你如果沒有這個未來以後全部用氫能你沒有一個加氣站怎麼辦這是很大的問題所以我希望你們是不是能夠三個月之內你們為了要趕上全球氫能運輸的發展你們提出三個月的三個月之內提出中長期的政策規劃是謝謝另外你們海管我們現在要蓋海管"},{"start":12602.153,"end":12624.785,"text":"這個中國啊 這個無所不用其破壞台灣的安定 破壞能源安全台灣的海嵐 你們現在也要蓋這個相關的海嵐永安 永安到通宵 第二條的海底運輸 通宵到大潭所以未來如果蓋成之後 如何要加強防範這你們有什麼想法 相關的想法嗎是 我們先從"},{"start":12626.266,"end":12645.271,"text":"海管本質上海管本身它是埋在海底下面0.5到1公尺之間同時這個海管本身它有鋼筋混凝土去保護所以它沒辦法破壞可以破壞但是它有相當的保護這第一點第二個如果說它走的路徑要跨過那個海欄的話"},{"start":12648.012,"end":12666.241,"text":"那在相关的施作上也有一些标准的规范会去制作按照规范来去实施比如说电缆在下面的话它先会铺一个垫子在上面然后海管走在上面之后铺一些碎石石头去把它保护起来"},{"start":12666.861,"end":12695.982,"text":"是啦 我是說這個點出這個問題你們未來鋪要設海管的部分這個輸氣管很重要不能讓它斷氣對不對所以輸氣管很重要如果被它破壞它如果真的要做它可能可不可以做得到報告委員這個是可能是國防的議題我太專業我沒辦法回答你但是防護是你的是你的工作嘛你要確保讓它沒有辦法破壞你的這個這個海管嘛對不對所以這部分你"},{"start":12697.028,"end":12716.163,"text":"未來要很多的這個書記管這部分你要做最大的努力讓他確保不會有任何被破壞的狀況好試試我們研議好最後60秒來請各位請回請這個部長跟那個能源署署長請郭部長游署長我現在在質詢的都精準質詢的好"},{"start":12722.117,"end":12738.888,"text":"新達電廠的核聚合種,我已經講太多次了新達海基,這幾年繞了六、七十年就此停頓下來解散,還是未來你川普2.0他全球離岸封建政策會改變"},{"start":12741.82,"end":12764.79,"text":"不希望在美國蓋離岸封建所以離岸封建會回到歐亞這個部分會降低他的成本未來興大海基有沒有機會興大海基因為我們不是把這個公司結束掉我們只是說他他現在是維持嘛那他既有的這個員工跟既有的這個技術已經成長的這個技術我們會開拓到他可以發展的這個地方所以他不會解散"},{"start":12766.274,"end":12783.269,"text":"他不會倒閉他不會倒閉啦我們現在正在研擬如果幫助他展開你要繼續成長你要繼續讓他營業你要投入更多的資金欸不是我們會跟他就是說因為現在台灣還是有很多的這個這個需求嘛"},{"start":12783.829,"end":12783.989,"text":"請黃國昌委員發言"},{"start":12819.678,"end":12845.736,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請經濟部部長台堂董事長請郭部長 請吳董事長兩位好在審查其實是去年台堂的預算的時候我就很清楚的點出來了台堂前董事長吳乃仁"},{"start":12848.697,"end":12871.673,"text":"賤賣台塘的土地導致國家虧損一億多元這個被判刑確定了啦這被判刑確定了啦即使我們的總統賴清德用政治生命幫無乃人掛保證即使民進黨立院黨團的幹事長吳思瑤說無乃人是在做黑勞"},{"start":12873.968,"end":12899.08,"text":"對不起不是黑老是冤獄啊說誰是背後的黑手都沒有辦法改變一個事實啊第一個判刑確定判刑確定關出來就好欠國家的錢啊現在追查的進度到底是什麼來看一下到目前為止還欠一億七千一百四十六萬來請董事長我講了數了對不對"},{"start":12904.252,"end":12927.485,"text":"上來用麥克風講 這樣才會進入立法院公報所有在關心的人 才聽得到你的聲音是 委員最近有沒有還最近 我們有透過相關的法律程序 但是查不到他的錢查不到他的錢 那奇怪了 你們有沒有去追蹤他現在出入都做B&W 你們知不知道大七系列的B&W 你知道嗎"},{"start":12932.093,"end":12949.154,"text":"我們今年12月9號有在跟法院申請執行然後呢因為在法院的成績下他沒有錢沒有存款所以我們也拿不到錢沒有錢沒有存款就算了喔"},{"start":12949.758,"end":12968.284,"text":"我們有透過法例的程序什麼程序講清楚啦透過強制執行法第幾條的什麼程序幹了什麼事情講清楚啦跟委員報告7.12.9號我們向法院遞狀申請再以強制執行依強制執行法第19條的規定"},{"start":12969.984,"end":12983.735,"text":"申請查掉債務人、無難人等私人資財產狀況向中華民國聯手保險商業同業工會中華郵政台灣集中保管"},{"start":12985.167,"end":13002.844,"text":"結算所股份有限公司及勞動部勞工保險及查刑以及請求法案依強制執行法第20條規定定期間令無乃人等事人即時報告財產狀況以立強制執行好 無乃人有沒有報告財產狀況"},{"start":13005.544,"end":13018.376,"text":"你跟法院申請嘛你一到強制執行法20條的規定嘛跟法院申請要求債務人報告他的財產狀況嘛法院有沒有命無奶人報告財產狀況還沒有通知為什麼還沒有通知"},{"start":13022.846,"end":13043.333,"text":"這就是要你們台堂去追的嘛對 我們會繼續人民很憤怒 納稅人很憤怒但所有的權力都在你們台堂手上嘛因為只有你們是資格的債權人嘛大家都在看啊說吳奶奶沒有錢進出座B&W大漆系列"},{"start":13044.403,"end":13061.868,"text":"晚上去海峽會吃高檔的料理海峽會你有去過嗎?我沒有你沒有去過?我不知道你檔事長耶你的檔次去海峽會應該剛好啦我沒有啦很熟啦政商關係很好的店啦出入都是立法委員啦"},{"start":13063.021,"end":13088.427,"text":"都是達官貴族啊 那很貴的啦很好 保持你的本性啊保持你的本性啊 我給你鼓勵啊我為什麼提啊 納稅人看不下去嘛做B&W 晚上去高檔的料理旁邊還有辣妹做賠然後這樣的人沒有錢賠國家"},{"start":13090.461,"end":13119.589,"text":"是台塘帶墮還是台北地方法院執行處放水依照強制執行法20條的規定命債務人報告財產狀況沒有據實報告法律效果是什麼董事長知不知道報告委員這個我不太曉得但是沒關係我跟你講啊依法管收依法管收台灣是法治國家強制執行法怎麼規定白紙黑字啊寫得非常的清楚啊"},{"start":13121.018,"end":13145.366,"text":"台灣還有沒有公平正義啊有權有勢的人判刑確定只要總統出來掛保證有沒有積極追討錢不用還國家喔還是連台北地方法院民事執行處的法官都在放水全民都在看啊全民都在看啊請台湯齁適時的公佈你們追討的狀況"},{"start":13149.365,"end":13163.598,"text":"適時的公布追討的狀況 你們今天給台北地方法院的申請函台北地方法院到目前為止都沒回覆是嗎我這樣講好了啦 簡單來講你們有沒有盡責做到你們的工作 我要一個最基本的資料你們強制執勤的申請狀"},{"start":13173.417,"end":13192.907,"text":"以及法院回應你們強制執行的申請狀的裁定書面都給我可以嗎書面都給我這樣我才知道怎麼追究責任嘛不要你一個新的董事長你明明很困難很怕病是台北地院的錯那我當然去追嘛"},{"start":13194.248,"end":13200.737,"text":"這樣可以嗎好我回去會請我們的法務跟我們的律師在這件事情好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":13220.206,"end":13232.117,"text":"請何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳委員不在請羅志強 羅志強 羅志強委員不在請鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在請蔡易瑜委員發言"},{"start":13247.179,"end":13257.331,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們是有請經濟部部長請郭部長那能源署署長也也一樣請優署長好"},{"start":13258.348,"end":13286.421,"text":"來部長部長因為我們現在政策有在講這個節能那事實上我也看到了說最近在討論這個節能也把它分為三個階段那第一個階段是建立ASCO的一個執行模式然後第二階段公營事業的導入第三階段才要擴散至民營事業那我現在想要請教部長我們現在要建立ASCO的一個執行模式那也就是說"},{"start":13287.481,"end":13306.496,"text":"這個Xcode他大概就是一個租賃的一個概念那未來就是說我們使用了可能一些設備上的更新那用節能的效力來設算說我們要怎麼跟這個提供設備的廠商他的價格所以他是一個比較新的一個概念那我"},{"start":13307.917,"end":13334.283,"text":"問的就是說我們現在要建立這樣的一個exco的一個執行模式的話那我們是不是有足夠的數據足以支撐我們到底未來節能的效益是多少因為這一個話他是強調的他是數據的真實性假如數據勒是有問題的或者是這個數據是錯誤的就會造成我們之後跟這些廠商他們的價格的計算上就會有落差"},{"start":13335.263,"end":13350.679,"text":"那這樣的話就會讓我們這個節能的一個這樣的一個方向真的就會糟蹋了所以部長我現在想要請教的就是說那我們現在到底是由誰來做價格的節能效率的擬定"},{"start":13351.584,"end":13378.746,"text":"好 這個部長可以說明一下嗎是 報告員 這個部分我們會先建立這個量測驗證的這個制度那麼先做出一個標準就好像我們在檢查身體一樣去檢查一個公司 去檢查一個事業那它哪個地方有問題那必須要這個產生的這個能量用的能量比較多 產生的碳比較多的地方我們要幫助它減碳"},{"start":13379.767,"end":13408.869,"text":"然後我們大概發三個方向第一個就是檢查它的照明第二個檢查它的這個空調的能耗再來就是它的動力的能耗包括照明空調跟動力嘛這個都是高耗電耗電就等於會增加碳嘛然後我們會有建議就是說在換的過程裡面有建議一些廠商這些廠商是經過我們標準局選定的它是最有能效的"},{"start":13409.429,"end":13437.512,"text":"然後這個價格是公告在上面的就是我們會公告然後讓他們自己選項我們不是只有一家廠商我們跟很多的家廠商在上面給這個做exco的公司啊他就可以選擇因為我們如果能夠集中幾個廠牌他因為數量大他的成本就可以降低這個是我們的目的所以我們先把標準建立先把標準建立然後再去衡量他然後再建議他怎麼改"},{"start":13437.992,"end":13464.412,"text":"然後在改的時候我們又幫助他可以買到比較成本低的這個效果高的這些商品好就是說部長大概我可以理解你剛剛講的一個方式啦但是我們在做Exco射算的時候究竟我們是用我們這間辦公室整體的耗電那跟我用Exco我把它做這些"},{"start":13465.812,"end":13492.439,"text":"燈具啦空調的改換之後然後耗電然後是做這樣的比的落差的比還是用單一產品這支電費它的耗電是怎樣未來我把它換成其他的東西它的耗電是怎樣是單一產品的比較後再把它放大然後再精算還是它是用整個的數據的精算這個不知道喔"},{"start":13492.859,"end":13514.184,"text":"在衡量的時候在檢測的時候應該就是整個空間所產生的這些能耗通通計算那如果折舊的部分呢因為這個電器如果用久了它的耗損率會提高耗損率提高自然它就相對更加耗能了所以我們建議它越快換越好"},{"start":13518.482,"end":13542.15,"text":"這個數據很重要我不希望我們這樣一個好的一個方向那我們這個可以想像未來政府也會投入不少因為要做EXCO然後等於是很多設備的更換那我不希望在這個更換的過程中造成不必要的浪費好不好是的好那我再問第二個是不是請我們水利署那能源署可以先請賴署長賴署長"},{"start":13545.928,"end":13574.106,"text":"來 部長跟署長我現在比較在意我們今年度要執行外省鼎州的固殺那我們的計畫是怎樣今年度外省鼎州的部分過去跟公司協力合作的有成效那我們今年除了延續過去公司協力在做這些所謂的柯架在做柔性的工法之外那我也請同仁去研究是不是跟我們柯農"},{"start":13575.667,"end":13596.307,"text":"來大家來討論一下主持人我直接時間因為比較少齁我直接跟你講一些我在地方看到的齁因為外省頂州咧我們之前在做這些公司協力然後做這一些用磕棚去做固紗對不對前幾年沒紅胎啦今年就有磕棚了今年就紅胎啊看起來這一個紅胎"},{"start":13598.94,"end":13621.513,"text":"過去我們做的那一些那些客家去那邊動海浪的破壞的很多所以可以基本上那個大自然的力量就這麼強所以我認為說我們在如果沒有一些變通我們一樣是每年去這些公司協力然後這些客家那邊去那邊用反不及急啦"},{"start":13622.606,"end":13650.975,"text":"外産頂桌這個消失的速度真的是非常的快那一旦外産頂桌消失了後裡面的那些養科的產業每年40億的產值也會跟著全軍覆沒所以外産頂桌是很重要的那我們現在實施固殺計畫到目前已經第三年了前兩年效果有出來因為前兩年沒有紅胎那今年獨立紅胎哇 馬上就面臨這兩年的努力被破壞蠻多的所以我們現在要思考的"},{"start":13652.755,"end":13672.186,"text":"署長我還是具體講,我從之前就跟你們說,我們可能要用抽砂要用抽砂,有的塞平的沙,抽去往沙頂丟,然後在歪山頂周的中間製造一個中央山脈就是在那裏要做一個高牆,你還硬打過,這個山脈把它擋住,不要讓它硬抓,把沙都戳下來"},{"start":13678.423,"end":13694.313,"text":"就是說一定要有一個管的地方,不然它這樣在裡面,它就是一直刷一直流下去然後就一直流到東石,然後就會變成整個東石是內陸化東石的外海內陸化,那就是現在我們在講我們擔心的未來整個這個養科的產業會消滅"},{"start":13697.02,"end":13716.733,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在做的方向就是委員所說的過去公司協力我們還沒有在抽殺過去公司協力這個是基本的未來複合性的加強性的抽殺的這個部分一定要做這個效果才會好但是這個要跟地方大家一起來溝通沒問題沒問題該溝通我一定會協助溝通那我想這個應該要來做因為公司協力還是要繼續嘛那是一個在海岸下的一個基礎的東西"},{"start":13727.1,"end":13750.152,"text":"但是我們現在開心的是因為黑硬要一直在外産地都一直打進來所以我們一定要一直動在黑硬一直動在這裡不要讓那個力量繼續延伸然後把整個沙都往內陸帶進來好不好我覺得我們這一些工法上要怎麼做是有效率的我們就要緊貼著不能再做光旺的一個態度了好不好謝謝"},{"start":13759.947,"end":13765.848,"text":"請翁曉琳 翁曉琳 翁曉琳委員不在 請賴思寶賴思寶 賴思寶委員不在 請葉延芝委員發言麻煩請經營部長 謝謝 請郭部長"},{"start":13794.476,"end":13817.552,"text":"部長好 因為您上任之後短短的幾個月 三個次長都陸陸續續要退休嘛有的是已經退休 像林全仁 陳振祺 那接下來連錦璋都要退休那我早上看到您回答其他委員的說法是說都是立法院給的壓力太大了 所以他們退休嘛那為什麼立法院就只有給他們壓力 其他的部為什麼都沒有這個問題"},{"start":13818.834,"end":13847.088,"text":"因為他還沒有到達退休年齡所以是只要其他部的次長有到達退休年齡那因為承受不了大院給的壓力所以就會退休不一定啦我的意思是說他到達退休年齡他可以選擇未來是不是繼續在這個環境裡面去努力或者他可以選擇他的第二村那他為什麼不願意留在這個地方努力因為大院給的壓力太大"},{"start":13847.628,"end":13852.476,"text":"所以都是立法委員的問題我沒有說是立法委員的問題啊你說是立法委員給壓力啊"},{"start":13857.165,"end":13881.747,"text":"我是說這個環境給我們的壓力環境給你們壓力但是環境壓力然後走的都是次長我是覺得部長你應該思考一下因為這個次長我的第一任次長是借領退了這個跟我有沒有接這個是沒有關係的那另外兩個呢第二個也是啊他本來也要在520就退了是我把他留下來因為我剛到這個"},{"start":13886.207,"end":13904.542,"text":"第三個連市長他非常優秀他也做了但他身體開始有一些因為這個狀況為什麼會被拿來討論這是很罕見非常罕見之前我問行政秘書長的時候他說他做公務員這麼久也沒有看過這樣的狀況"},{"start":13905.717,"end":13934.427,"text":"就是一個部長上任幾個月下面全部都退休我想這個就是會引起委員的關注就是無巧不成書嘛對啊 這個很巧啦對啦這位部長沒關係因為你可能覺得自己很棒跟你沒問題所以說是立法委員壓力很大我覺得人才的流失其實對國家都是損失啦如果說您可以多盡一分心力說不定這些人才可以留住好不好然後接下來跟你問一些不同的議題啦像"},{"start":13935.047,"end":13956.265,"text":"因為我們早上也有看到別的委員有跟你請教就是說中鋼現在配合經濟部的政策投資了台智電或者是台智能講法不一樣那部長您的說法是說如果你覺得中鋼沒有跟工會談好的話你就會請中鋼退出是這個意思嗎我不知道有沒有聽錯"},{"start":13956.986,"end":13974.483,"text":"我的意思就是說如果他沒有得到工會的支持沒有得到同仁的支持那他硬來投資我覺得也沒有那個意義啊但是代表說經濟部對於中鋼是有影響力的嘛沒有影響力你怎麼會叫他退就退一定是有影響力他才會退啊NO"},{"start":13975.043,"end":13990.353,"text":"不是這樣子那你怎麼叫他退我還是建議他你建議他我沒有命令他我是建議他你建議他他可以不理你就對但是我們來看一下中鋼的股權的結構好不好經濟部在中鋼裡面都佔了大概20%嘛"},{"start":13991.913,"end":14004.332,"text":"實際上是最大關股是有影響力的但我們今天在這邊提醒部長是說經濟部在做任何的決策的時候其實都會影響到小股東小股東是多少人小股東是100多萬人"},{"start":14006.189,"end":14026.139,"text":"所以他不是只有要配合經濟部的政策的問題啊而是說你也要兼顧到一百多萬小股東的權益啊是 完全同意這個委員的指教啊對 所以如果說部長您的意思是你可以建議他那我相信你建議他因為你又是他的最大股幾乎就是可以做這個決策啦"},{"start":14026.779,"end":14049.588,"text":"所以未來要考慮其他80%的股東啊沒有沒有一定是你們可以你如果講說你們要影響我就聽不下去了啊現在連那個董事長都是官派的你影響不了我們只有兩席是官派的兩席我們只有兩席我們沒有辦法影響他我們只能建議他我覺得大家不會相信你的說法其實你是可以"},{"start":14050.228,"end":14073.453,"text":"可以叫他做這個事沒有然後再來我跟你請教一下為什麼每一次配合經濟部政策都是中鋼啊之前是中鋼要配合然後去投資那個星達海基後來賠了64億然後現在中鋼又要去處理這個做一個那個購電平台台灣難道沒有其他的有賺錢的國營事業可以做這個事嗎為什麼都是中鋼啊"},{"start":14075.155,"end":14097.39,"text":"這個是因為他有綠電需求中鋼本人那其他的其他大企業有沒有綠電需求有他們是股東對所以意思是說因為中鋼有綠電需求所以你乾脆你就乾脆就上下游整合你來做這個綠電的是這個意思嗎是的是喔那沒有其他條件喔沒有符合其他條件企業只有中鋼可以"},{"start":14098.519,"end":14121.464,"text":"其他的有綠電需求我們都歡迎他加入啊那再跟你請教一下因為早上我有看到你提到那個輝達要在台灣設廠嘛那經濟部幫他找土地嗎沒有沒有沒有他們自己找土地所以經濟部有要協助嗎經濟部只是幫助他們水電人然後土地他自己找"},{"start":14122.52,"end":14132.46,"text":"他說他要自己找那他找哪個地你再去找那個地的水跟電是不是我們大概基本上啊在整個在規劃的過程裡面"},{"start":14134.949,"end":14159.176,"text":"我們每一個縣市都會有充分的水跟電所以我們在這個桃竹苗大溪谷跟我們南方大溪谷嘉南高坪通通是完整的這個供給給他們水跟電所以他可以就這一部分來所以你有確定他不管選擇台灣的哪個縣市我們的電是絕對無虞的"},{"start":14160.716,"end":14181.367,"text":"我們也不會說像以前好像台電講的如果哪個縣市沒有辦法自己供電的話就不發展那個產業這個可能都是大家在溝通上面有一點誤解怎麼都是大家有問題不是 大家在溝通上面有誤解那所以實際上是怎樣實際上就是滿足所有的反正只要產業落腳在哪個縣市我們都會滿足就對 是這個意思是的那所以"},{"start":14188.917,"end":14209.232,"text":"部長就是確定但是你不知道哪裡但是我是希望部長如果你有土地建議的話可以考慮一下我們北部因為我們剛剛講到興達海基後來有一個它虧損的原因部長您有提到因為它在興達漁港吃水不夠可是那個時候為什麼會選擇在興達漁港難道你要選擇做封店的時候你不會去研究它的水有多深嗎"},{"start":14210.413,"end":14232.203,"text":"所以這是不是高雄市政府當時其實非常歡迎新大海基過去不是 那個時候的環境是可以的但是現在的大型的風電改變太多了不是啊 那你投資你你投資你不會去評估說未來的環境有沒有可能改變你就直接投資幾十億下去喔這個投資也太草率了吧這個也是我們應該要檢討的部分"},{"start":14232.743,"end":14241.898,"text":"為什麼他們會這麼草率所以那時候是不是高雄市政府要求他去所以他們就必須要去我真的不太相信中鋼的投資有這麼短淺啊"},{"start":14243.479,"end":14266.274,"text":"我真的不相信啦而且那個東西不是很難的評估嘛這個漁港到底吃水多深可不可以做這個做這個產業怎麼可能會評估不了因為這個是一個新的產業啦所以他的這個變化大概大家在經驗經驗的這個這個領域裡面大概比較缺是那學費也交太多了吧是是是謝謝謝謝委員的指導謝謝好"},{"start":14272.298,"end":14288.855,"text":"部長 桃園有機場 港口 水庫 還有大潭電廠所以還有龍科三期正在開發所以請部長要看看我們桃園 很適合回答台積電都歡迎 歡迎是 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":14296.65,"end":14314.669,"text":"发言登记的委员除了不在场外其余的已经发言完毕询答结束有罗志强陈超明翁晓琳委员所提的书面质询列入记录刊登公报书面质询和位及答复的部分请相关单位于一周内"},{"start":14315.109,"end":14335.277,"text":"以书面答复并赴资本会本日讨论四项所列议案询答结束针对预算案委员所提的修正动议或者相关提案已会诊完成明天早上9点继续开会进行审查现在休息"},{"start":14342.984,"end":14344.706,"text":"我確定 確定自己來開心家操囉"},{"start":14424.428,"end":14425.009,"text":"优优独播剧场——YoYo Television Series Exclusive"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}