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邀請工部長政委好"},{"start":20.182,"end":42.806,"text":"公務部長 依據國貿署最新向工會轉資的公文他說美國商務部正嚴寧工具機產業納入232國安條款的調查未來有可能再以國安為由來課徵額外的關稅對台灣的工具機造成了20%在家疊加關稅"},{"start":46.447,"end":69.245,"text":"而且这个N不知道是多少这个可以说是让我们工具机的产业又是新一波的冲击又在10月19号的报道台中产业园区产办役主的件数它是增加的这个月我们增加了将近20件工厂代售案"},{"start":70.287,"end":89.396,"text":"那所以呢 這些廠房呢多屬於工具機的相關產業那顯示工具機在這一段時間是急凍那政府應該要聚焦因為政府目前是聚焦在這個半導體跟AI產業那幾乎是忽視了美方已將國安"},{"start":90.296,"end":105.433,"text":"的視角延伸觸及到實際的實體的製造業所以政府對於整個供應鏈的戰略變化警覺性似乎是嚴重的不足所以我本期要在這邊請教面對工具機產業被納入所謂的232國安條款的調查"},{"start":110.858,"end":129.748,"text":"經濟部你是不是做好了這個評估要將整體性的出口的一個衝擊產業鏈的關鍵影響度究竟我們要如何的來應對這個效應尤其匯率跟關稅是製造業當中的生死線"},{"start":131.028,"end":151.443,"text":"匯率跟關稅那政府如果沒有作為全盤的一個戰略工具機的產業勢必會成為國際博弈下的犧牲品請部長說明我想委員有觀察到現在的確美國他把對等關稅的某些項目"},{"start":152.199,"end":170.135,"text":"慢慢的有些項目移到232區的確是這樣不過公區區他是有這樣的說法不過232基本上他有一個調查的程序通常那個調查程序要高達可能幾個月三個月或六個月然後才會公布他可能的一些 部長我們已經從四月份"},{"start":171.633,"end":195.116,"text":"美台開始談的時候 政府第一時間叫我們好好睡覺到現在 到8月份告訴我們20家疊加關稅到現在告訴我們說10月底大概會有一個方向 不知道是不是如此所以昨天總統到了我們的會展中心第一展 手工具總統先生也在現場說了"},{"start":196.977,"end":220.315,"text":"近期很快會有好的報告而且會低於20%的關稅而且是不疊加所以我再一次請教既然說本期當然是充分因為中部地區都是我們的工具機 手工具這些機械類別的扣件等零組件都是在我們這裡我們非常緊張"},{"start":222.256,"end":227.589,"text":"所有的產業界非常的憂心你還要告訴我們說只有調查還要幾個月"},{"start":230.12,"end":259.006,"text":"那你也明明知道說你也明明知道說現在列入那到底我們政府第一個請教政府昨天總統先生在這個我們台中會展中心所說的是不是誠如總統先生所說的公布的關稅會低於20%會不會這個本來就是我們努力的方向會低於20%而且是正面的方向第二個不會再疊加"},{"start":260.713,"end":279.966,"text":"對 這個也是我們努力的方向總統先生昨天就這麼說了說很快會告訴我們這個好的消息那你身為部長啊這個是你最重要的幕僚啊是不是陳儒總統先生所說的那這個很快是什麼時候原本告訴我們是10月那10月底會不會告訴我們還是11月"},{"start":283.288,"end":296.978,"text":"因為最後的這個叫做最終談判事實上還要看美國的時間跟我們的時間因為美國最近又碰到APEC現在正在進行當中所以美國還有他們要去東協"},{"start":299.339,"end":312.704,"text":"部長 人民很乖 產業很乖產業希望當政府當他們的靠山大家都很乖 很努力在做事因為您之前政府告訴我們大概這個暫時禁關稅大約10月"},{"start":315.865,"end":333.725,"text":"所以當然10月現在已經22號啦所以我們一定要請教目前的進度到底是怎麼樣呢技術性的談判大概都已經確認了那最終就是等於是最後的這個所以請教今天10月22號10月底會不會有像總統說的很快會給我們好的訊息 會不會"},{"start":336.427,"end":349.855,"text":"這個主要還是要看美國的時機所以你還是沒有辦法給本席這個時間我告訴你因為以我們的工具機產業為例日元它的匯兌美元匯率五年來它貶了多少 42.4"},{"start":351.792,"end":374.947,"text":"那我方我們新台幣最貶的是3.61%所以如果再加上美國對日本的對等關稅他們是15%我們是20%還要再加疊加在這樣的情況之下我們的差距大概10%那導致日本的機器會比台灣的機器它的價格會便宜20%到30%這個就是主要"},{"start":378.489,"end":395.021,"text":"為什麼我們的產業這麼樣的被冷凍所以我極度嚴厲的要求政府你對於我們這些傳統產業實體的產業你務必要加強去關心去應對是不是 是"},{"start":396.743,"end":418.56,"text":"這460億一定都是用在傳產上面說老實話不夠 絕對會不夠因為這一些預算從一開始發生事情的時候我們再也就馬上提出要政府編列振興經濟方案怎麼樣來協助我們的產業對不對如果不夠的話我們還有200億可以再提出來就是 部長我還是澄清 您是專家"},{"start":419.741,"end":446.424,"text":"本席認為產業要聽的是政府的政策政府的方向 政府的時程這非常的重要因為總統先生昨天就已經這麼說了到現在你是經濟部長還沒辦法告訴我們那最後本席再請教您的解讀是不是賴總統所說的也就是不會宣布的時候20%的關稅會比20%更低是不是方向上是這樣"},{"start":447.56,"end":461.51,"text":"不會疊加關稅是不是那原則上在10月底還是11月可以告訴國人是不是如此因為產業我相信你也非常清楚等不及了我到底要不要接單到底要不要接單不是你們努力的問題而是你要傾聽產業的心聲"},{"start":467.954,"end":487.748,"text":"我到底要不要接單我到底要不要投資因為我要告訴你在金管會到8月底國營對中小企業的放款10.7兆裡頭雖然叫7月份增加了242億但是是創下重點在這裡創下了7年來同期最低"},{"start":488.809,"end":491.41,"text":"現在他們怎麼樣呢 只有還錢保生如果我們的產業是這種方式那我們的競爭力在哪裡呢我們的產業到底該怎麼樣的方向呢實際上的數字告訴你是如此啊對 我們前幾個禮拜也帶了供給機業者去參加德國漢恩威的這個這是本席要求 政府必須要"},{"start":512.81,"end":522.842,"text":"好好的做產業的靠山 對不對所以你如果只有戒心來減少還舊沒有加速 只有還舊加速沒有人加舊啊只有還錢保生啊"},{"start":529.382,"end":545.198,"text":"你用數字去看啊就是我們對於我們的政策 我們的政府沒有信心才會如此嗎所以用實際的數字告訴你 本席具體要求你們必須要好好針對我們的傳統產業 我們的實體產業96%的勞動業者 勞動員工都在這裡你要好好的來照顧嘛 對不對"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":501,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時28分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。邀請龔部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：召委好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：龔部長，依據國貿署最新向公會轉知的公文提到，美國商務部正在研擬將工具機產業納入232國安條款的調查，未來有可能再以國安為由來課徵額外的關稅。對臺灣工具機產業來說，不僅造成20%的疊加關稅，而且這個N還不知道是多少，讓我們的工具機產業又面臨新一波的衝擊。10月19號有報導指出，臺中產業園區廠辦易主的件數是增加的，這個月我們增加了將近20件工廠待售案，而這些廠房多屬於工具機的相關產業，顯示工具機在這一段時間是急凍，政府應該要聚焦於此，但政府目前是聚焦在半導體跟AI產業，幾乎是忽視了美方已將國安的視角延伸、觸及到實際的、實體的製造業。政府對於整個供應鏈的戰略變化，警覺性似乎是嚴重不足，所以本席要在這邊請教，面對工具機產業被納入所謂的232國安條款的調查，經濟部是不是做好了相關評估？要關注整體性的出口衝擊、產業鏈的關鍵影響度。究竟我們要如何來應對這個效應？尤其匯率跟關稅是製造業當中的生死線，匯率跟關稅，政府如果沒有將它列為全盤的戰略，工具機產業勢必會成為國際博弈下的犧牲品。請部長說明。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我想委員也有觀察到，現在的確美國是把對等關稅的某些項目，慢慢地有些項目移到232去，的確是這樣，工具機它是有這樣的說法。不過232基本上會有一個調查的程序，通常那個調查程序可能高達幾個月，三個月或六個月，然後才會公布它可能的一些稅率……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，從4月份美臺開始談的時候，政府第一時間叫我們好好睡覺，到8月份告訴我們，20%加上疊加關稅，到現在又告訴我們10月底大概會有一個方向，不知道是不是如此。昨天總統到了我們的會展中心，第一展是手工具，總統先生也在現場說了，近期很快會有好的報告，而且會低於20%的關稅，而且是不疊加，所以我在此請教，本席當然是充分……因為中部地區都是我們的工具機、手工具，這一些機械類別的扣件等零組件，都是在我們這裡，我們非常緊張耶，所有的產業界非常的憂心耶，你還要告訴我們說只有調查，而且還要幾個月，你也明明知道說……"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，這是美國的調查。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也明明知道現在列入，那到底我們政府……第一個請教，昨天總統先生在臺中會展中心所說的，是不是誠如總統先生所說的，公布的關稅會低於20%，會不會？"],["龔部長明鑫：這個本來就是我們努力的方向，而且……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會低於20%？"],["龔部長明鑫：而且是往正面的，正面的方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第二個，不會再疊加？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，這個也是我們努力的方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：總統先生昨天就這麼說了，他說很快會告訴我們這個好的消息，你身為部長，這部分你是最重要的幕僚，是不是誠如總統先生所說的？所謂這個會很快是什麼時候？"],["龔部長明鑫：的確是往……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：原本告訴我們是10月，請問10月底會不會告訴我們？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還是11月？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為這個部分，最後的這個叫做最終談判，事實上還要看美國的時間跟我們的時間，因為美國最近又碰到APEC，現在正在進行當中，還有美國也要去東協開會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，人民很乖，產業很乖耶，產業希望政府當他們的靠山，大家都很乖，很努力在做事，因為之前政府告訴我們，這個暫時性關稅大約在10月，現在已經是10月22號了，所以我們一定要請教，目前的進度到底是怎麼樣呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：技術性的談判大概都已經確認了，最終，也就是最後的會議……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我請教你，今天是10月22號，10月底會不會像總統說的很快會給我們好的訊息，會不會？"],["龔部長明鑫：這個主要還是要看美國的時間啦。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你還是沒有辦法給本席這個時間？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我告訴你，因為以我們的工具機產業為例，日圓匯兌美元的匯率五年來貶了多少？42.4%，而我方，我們新臺幣最貶的時候是3.61%，所以如果再加上美國對日本的對等關稅，他們是15%，我們是20%還要再加疊加，在這樣的情況之下，我們的差距大概是10%，導致日本的機器會比臺灣的機器價格便宜20%到30%，這個就是為什麼我們的產業這麼樣的被冷凍，所以我極度、嚴厲的要求，政府對於我們這些傳統產業、實體的產業，務必要加強去關心、去應對，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，所以460億一定都是用在傳產上面，說老實話，都是中小微企業。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不夠，絕對會不夠，因為這些預算從一開始發生事情的時候，我們在野就馬上提出要政府編列振興經濟方案，怎麼樣來協助我們的產業，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，如果不夠的話，我們還有200億可以再提出來，就是特別條例給我們的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，您是專家，本席認為產業要聽的是政府的政策、政府的方向、政府的時程，這非常的重要，因為總統先生昨天就已經這麼說了，到現在，您是經濟部長，還沒辦法告訴我們。","最後，本席再請教，您的解讀是不是賴總統所說的，也就是宣布的時候不會是20%，關稅會比20%更低，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：方向上是這樣。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不會疊加關稅，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：方向上應該是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：原則上在10月底或11月就可以告訴國人，是不是如此？"],["龔部長明鑫：這個也是我們努力的目標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為產業……我相信你也非常清楚，他們是等不及了。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我到底要不要接單。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們也是很努力，對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：到底要不要接單，不是你們努力的問題，而是你要傾聽產業的心聲啊。"],["龔部長明鑫：會，我們輔導團……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我到底要不要接單，我到底要不要投資？因為我要告訴你，金管會到8月底，國銀對中小企業的放款10.7兆裡頭，雖然較7月份增加了242億，但是卻創下……重點在這裡，創下了七年來同期最低，現在他們怎麼樣呢？只有還錢保生，如果我們的產業是這種方式，那我們的競爭力在哪裡呢？我們的產業到底該往怎麼樣的方向呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會，事實上我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：實際上的數字告訴你是如此啊。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，我們前幾個禮拜也帶了工具機業者去參加德國漢諾威的工具機展，那是全世界最大的展，有拿到很多訂單……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是本席要求政府必須要好好的做產業的靠山，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：好的、好的，一定、一定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以如果只有借新減少，還舊加速，就表示沒人敢借，只有還錢保生啊。"],["龔部長明鑫：有啦，還是有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你用數字去看啊，就是對於我們的政策，對於我們的政府沒有信心，才會如此嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我用實際的數字告訴你，本席具體要求，你們必須要好好針對我們的傳統產業、我們的實體產業，96%的勞動業者、勞動員工都在這裡，你要好好的照顧嘛，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：一定、一定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔）：接下來，我們請陳超明委員詢答，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-6","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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