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10:45:21","會議時間":"2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部就「替代役訓練及備役召集運用」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查「替代役實施條例」：(一)委員王美惠等18人擬具「替代役實施條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員羅美玲等18人擬具「替代役實施條例增訂第五十五條之五條文草案」案。(三)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「替代役實施條例第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n\n【10月22日及23日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.21659375000000003,"end":1.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.9209687500000001,"end":5.076593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.097843750000001,"end":4.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.32971875,"end":9.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.51471875,"end":21.934718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.137218750000002,"end":35.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.90721875,"end":39.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.17659375,"end":42.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.994718750000004,"end":50.689718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.14534375,"end":54.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.29659375000001,"end":56.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.98409375000001,"end":59.869718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.869718750000004,"end":62.586593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.04659375000001,"end":66.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.46784375,"end":71.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.53034375,"end":73.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.25159375,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.60159375,"end":74.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.77034375000001,"end":74.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.34409375,"end":80.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.77784375,"end":83.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.58346875000001,"end":82.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.03909375,"end":83.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.69721875,"end":85.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.76471875,"end":87.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.71346875,"end":89.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.02971875,"end":92.89409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.41721875,"end":96.50534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.55596875,"end":99.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.66096875000001,"end":99.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.69471875,"end":100.90971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.12909375000001,"end":101.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.87159375,"end":101.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.97284375000001,"end":111.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.84159375,"end":105.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.26284375,"end":112.46909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.72221875000001,"end":112.73909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.73909375000001,"end":116.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.77284375,"end":113.12721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.16471875,"end":122.37471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.37471875000001,"end":122.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.50971875,"end":122.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.54346875,"end":122.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.56034375,"end":128.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.45034375,"end":125.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.74534375,"end":126.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.76221875,"end":129.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.07409375,"end":129.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.81659375,"end":129.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.20471875,"end":132.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.98909375,"end":135.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.92534375,"end":144.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.26159375,"end":150.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.25659375,"end":151.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.87221875,"end":154.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.05784375000002,"end":152.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.67784375000002,"end":156.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.46659375000002,"end":173.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.69659375,"end":170.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.80971875,"end":186.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.43221875,"end":186.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.93409375000002,"end":198.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.19034375,"end":195.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.66284375,"end":195.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.70034375,"end":205.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.52221875,"end":206.49659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.61471875,"end":208.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.57659375,"end":217.33034375000003},{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他也是兵役自助的一環對 兵役自助那每一位藝男的專長與時間我們是不是都該妥善的來運用分成現役替代役跟備役替代役那我們現在在現役替代役上面有關專長的這個分布的部分會有比較好的規劃那備役的時候因為太多我們慢慢會把它補足"},{"start":35.489,"end":54.136,"text":"好 那除了專長以外呢我想請教我們現在內政部手上有沒有一份清楚明確的替代役人力地圖所謂人力地圖就是在我們全國各縣市不管直轄市或是我們縣轄市這個縣市"},{"start":57.037,"end":74.605,"text":"他的分部你们有吗有 有没有这一份我请市长跟您回应一下好 报告委员我们这个部分我们有建置这个替代在全国各地的这个人眼的配置跟地点我们这个是在结合我们内政部的提供的这个地图我们有来做这样的一个配置你们有完全掌握了有"},{"start":75.385,"end":99.154,"text":"好那但是因為現在會讓我們感覺你們那現在有數據嗎現在沒有沒有準備嗎你們今天來有沒有那個數據我們目前總數你們是總數我現在說那我請教我新竹縣有多少新竹縣那個我們查一下所以你們都每年每年都有掌握就對了"},{"start":99.907,"end":115.906,"text":"他就跟兵役制度他就跟兵役制度一樣啊你現在在服兵役或者你是後備我是指替代役是 我的替代役也是兵役制度的一環所以我們應該掌握他在哪個地方不是分配 就是有多少人數我們大概會知道"},{"start":116.226,"end":131.456,"text":"然後他我指的是他你有多少這個藝男人數但是我現在是說替代藝他有些會配到哪裡配到哪裡你們也有這個資料有這個資料有的話那你有沒有發現眾都會親偏鄉"},{"start":135.97,"end":159.959,"text":"我們替代役現役的部分有兩個區塊一個區塊就是用申請的那申請的就是依然你要哪裡來申請我們沒辦法掌握所以申請的時候他可以決定地點給他選擇嗎你們沒有掌握分配嗎我們基本上替代役的分發我們是以戶籍地為原則"},{"start":161.099,"end":186.538,"text":"就尽量让他回到家乡里面去以后被疫他在被疫的训练或者以后被疫的救灾他能够来熟悉所以尽量在家乡我们尽量都是让他到回复脊地去服务因为我们地方上我们有感觉好像一些偏乡地区的长照或者是弱势孩童的照护都没有足够的替代仪是"},{"start":187.967,"end":206.421,"text":"怎么样这个部分因为卫福部他们也有提出这个替代艺人力的需求那替代艺人力的需求基本上是卫福部就他所分配的源额他再去进一步分化到各县市那这个部分我们就尊重卫福部对对但是你手上有掌握嘛"},{"start":206.681,"end":235.588,"text":"有我這邊手邊有所以這樣就變成說如果我們說長者或是孩童的這種照護所以這就又變成是衛福部的權責因為人臉我們是你們只是把人召集來不是我們人召集完了之後那衛福部每年他會提出他的需求源額經過行政院的核定核定完了之後我們每年就會把這些人數盡可能的都給滿足到各部位的人力需求"},{"start":236.108,"end":249.67,"text":"那各部会人力需求之后他要分配到哪一个县市哪一个公所就由卫福部来去做决定所以这一个变成又是卫福部的权责对这个分配到服勤地点是由卫福部来决定的"},{"start":250.457,"end":264.186,"text":"接著這一塊因為今天應該衛福部沒來沒有今天衛福部沒來我就接著問我們義男他退伍後的就業輔導因為他這"},{"start":268.448,"end":283.46,"text":"为国家尽义务嘛那总是会牺牲一点尤其我们又恢复了一年嘛对不对所以是不是让他们怎么样会有一个空窗怎么样可以顺利重返社会这一块有没有任何的就业辅导措施"},{"start":284.349,"end":308.57,"text":"我們這個部分我們現階段並沒有去從事這個工作委員如果有指教的話我們以後也可以盡可能來媒介對啦 可以譬如說跟勞動部啊 退府會或是一些相關單位也幫他們弄個就業博覽會因為就本席了解有些人他對他自己的生涯或職涯"},{"start":309.45,"end":336.491,"text":"他掌握得很清楚但是因为现在有些很多服役的他们都还年轻所以如果说在可以有一个衔接然后帮他办个就业博览会也不难吧可以来做吗我们会来结合劳动部来配合这个机制我们来运作对对对好不好好那也请部长也支持多督导那再来就是我们对于这种家境清寒的艺男"},{"start":337.752,"end":363.854,"text":"這個部分我們是不是有可能特別對他們照顧因為我看到好像他們每個月大概就是7000多塊沒有 這個跟委員報告因為我們現階段我們有所謂的中低收入戶跟低收入戶低收入戶是要來扶替代役中低收入戶是扶常備兵役那他們去服役的時候他們的這個家況我們會給他做生活"},{"start":366.277,"end":383.797,"text":"輔助加礦的調查如果符合我們的類級的這個等級我們就會給他生活輔助那生活輔助就按照他的人口口數裡面的多少我們給他這個經費的補助那基本上我們是給他6500多塊將近7000塊沒錯啦"},{"start":387.26,"end":395.367,"text":"所以他家人口多你還可以乘以3喔有3口你可以乘以3那他還分甲級跟乙級丙級甲級的話我們就是乘以3"},{"start":399.163,"end":421.529,"text":"对这一块我们希望能够来协助这个部分我们之前已经有调整过了一次而且调整的幅度本来3000多块我们就调整到将近7000块我手上的资料最新你从5000多调到是7130我不知道那你的讲法是7130如果它符合规定"},{"start":422.009,"end":443.006,"text":"有三口人你可以乘以三給他對 甲級的話我們就是可以乘以三甲級是怎麼樣甲級是他的收入最低生活支出標準的百分之十以內那十到七十是一級對好 我們希望這一塊是能夠來協助我們也希望一起的努力但是我們還要跟主計總署來做溝通好 OK 好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":575,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（10時37分）感謝主席，請劉部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長，今天談替代役男，我想您一定認同替代役是國家的重要人力資源。"],["劉部長世芳：是，它也是兵役制度的一環。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，每一位役男的專長與時間，是不是都該妥善地來運用？"],["劉部長世芳：分成現役替代役跟備役替代役，現在在現役替代役上面，有關專長分布的部分，會有比較好的規劃；備役的部分，因為太多，我們慢慢會把它補足。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。除了專長以外，我想請教，現在內政部手上有沒有一份清楚、明確的替代役人力地圖？所謂人力地圖就是在全國各縣市，不管直轄市或是縣轄市、縣市，它的分布你們有嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：有，請司長跟您回應一下。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。"],["沈司長哲芳：報告委員，針對這個部分，我們有建置替代役在全國各地人員的配置跟地點，這個結合我們內政部TGOS的地圖有做這樣的配置。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們有完全掌握了？"],["沈司長哲芳：有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，但是因為現在會讓我們感覺……你們現在有數據嗎？沒有？沒有準備嘛？你們今天來有沒有那個數據？"],["沈司長哲芳：有，目前是總數啦……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們是總數？那我請教，我們新竹縣有多少？"],["沈司長哲芳：新竹縣，要查一下……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你們每年都有掌握就對了？"],["沈司長哲芳：對。"],["劉部長世芳：它就跟兵役制度一樣啊！你現在在服兵役或者你是後備……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我是指替代役耶！"],["劉部長世芳：是，替代役也是兵役制度的一環，所以我們應該掌握他在哪個地方……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對。所以替代役怎麼分配都知道？"],["劉部長世芳：不是分配，就是有多少人數，我們大概會知道。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我指的是，你有多少役男人數……"],["沈司長哲芳：有，我們……"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是我現在是說替代役他有些會分配到哪裡裡，你們也有？"],["沈司長哲芳：有、有，這個資料有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，這個資料有的話，你有沒有發現重都會輕偏鄉啊？"],["沈司長哲芳：服替代役現役的部分有兩個區塊，一個區塊是用申請的，一來你從哪裡來申請我們沒辦法掌握，這是用申請機制……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以申請的時候，他可以決定地點？給他選擇嗎？你們沒有掌握、分配嗎？"],["沈司長哲芳：基本上替代役的分發是以戶籍地為原則，儘量讓他回到家鄉裡面去，以後他在備役的訓練或者以後備役的救災，他能夠來熟悉，所以基本上……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以儘量在家鄉？"],["沈司長哲芳：儘量都是讓他回到戶籍地去服勤。"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為在地方上，感覺好像有一些偏鄉地區的長照或者是弱勢孩童的照護都沒有足夠的替代役，這是怎麼樣？"],["沈司長哲芳：這個部分，因為衛福部他們也有提出替代役人力的需求，基本上是衛福部就他們所分配的員額，再去進一步分發到各縣市，這個部分我們是尊重衛福部。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對，但是你手上有掌握嘛？"],["沈司長哲芳：有，我手邊有資料，但是要查一下。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣長者或是孩童的照護又變成是衛福部的權責？"],["沈司長哲芳：對，因為人員是整體……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們只是把人召集來？"],["沈司長哲芳：不是，人召集完了之後，衛福部每年會提出他的需求員額，經過行政院的核定，核定完了之後，每年就會把這些人數儘可能滿足各部會的人力需求，之後各部會人力要分配到哪個縣市、哪個公所，就由衛福部去做決定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這個又變成是衛福部的權責？"],["沈司長哲芳：對，分配到服勤地點是由衛福部來決定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，今天衛福部應該沒來？"],["主席：沒有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那我就接著問，役男退伍後的就業輔導，因為他為國家盡義務，總是會犧牲一點，尤其我們又恢復為一年嘛！所以這會有一個空窗，怎麼樣可以順利重返社會？這一塊有沒有任何的就業輔導措施？"],["沈司長哲芳：這個部分，現階段並沒有去從事這個工作……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這一塊是不是可以協助？"],["沈司長哲芳：委員如果有指教的話，以後也可以儘可能來媒介啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啦！可以譬如說，跟勞動部、退輔會或是一些相關單位，也幫他們弄個就業博覽會，因為就本席了解，有些人對他自己的生涯或職涯掌握得很清楚，但是因為現在很多服役的他們都還年輕，所以如果說可以有銜接，然後幫他們辦個就業博覽會，也不難吧？可以來做嗎？"],["沈司長哲芳：我們會結合勞動部配合這個機制，我們來運作。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對、對，好不好？"],["沈司長哲芳：好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請部長也支持、多督導。"],["劉部長世芳：好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：再來，對於家境清寒的役男，這個部分是不是有可能對他們特別照顧？因為我看到他們好像每個月大概就是領七千多塊？"],["沈司長哲芳：沒有，跟委員報告，因為現階段有所謂的中低收入戶跟低收入戶，低收入戶是要服替代役，中低收入戶是服長備兵役，他們去服役的時候，針對他們的家況，我們會給他做生活輔助家況的調查，如果符合類級的等級，我們就會給他生活輔助，生活輔助就按照他人口口數的多少給他經費的補助，基本上，我們是給他六千五百多塊，將近七千塊沒錯啦！這個部分，一口是將近七千塊，而且我們是最近……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以他家人口多，你還可以乘以三？有三口，你可以乘以三，是這樣嗎？"],["沈司長哲芳：它還分甲級、乙級跟丙級……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以都有判定？"],["沈司長哲芳：甲級就是乘以三。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這一塊我們希望能夠來協助。"],["沈司長哲芳：這個部分，我們之前已經有調整過一次，而且調整的幅度，本來三千多塊調整到將近七千塊。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我手上最新的資料，你從五千多調到是7,130元？你的講法是7,130，如果他符合規定，他有3口人，你就可以乘以3給他囉！"],["沈司長哲芳：對，甲級的話，我們就可以乘以3。"],["徐委員欣瑩：甲級是怎麼樣？"],["沈司長哲芳：甲級是他的收入低於最低生活支出標準的10%以內；10%到70%是乙級。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們希望這一塊能夠來協助。"],["沈司長哲芳：我們也希望一起來努力，但是我們還要跟主計總處溝通。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK！謝謝。"],["沈司長哲芳：謝謝委員。"],["主席：感謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢。","請林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","請謝龍介委員、謝龍介委員、謝龍介委員不在。","請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":288,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-7","speakers":["王美惠","羅美玲","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","羅廷瑋","林楚茵","謝龍介","吳琪銘","高金素梅"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部就「替代役訓練及備役召集運用」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查「替代役\n實施條例」： ( 一 ) 委員王美惠等 18 人擬具「替代役實施條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案、\n(二）委員羅美玲等18人擬具「替代役實施條例增訂第五十五條之五條文草案」案、 (三)台灣民\n眾黨黨團擬具「替代役實施條例第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1148601_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}