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巴基斯坦連你們常在批評的中國印度 都有啊連非洲 埃及 南非南非共同體都有啊我們台灣的司法有比"},{"start":288.8,"end":316.716,"text":"印尼印度還落後有比埃及有比南非還落後嗎民主黨我們台灣的司法的公開透明度比這些國家都還落後嗎我們不是一直都是走路有風我們是魔幻聲嗎當好不容易往前跨了一步那到底司法院在怕什麼"},{"start":318.875,"end":320.994,"text":"警察官在怕什麼 有什麼見不得人的事情"},{"start":330.444,"end":358.008,"text":"今天副秘書長都講不出話還是不知道怎麼講我現在回答嗎請說我已經問你幾個月了你都是不敢回答還是不願回答因為委員一直繼續講所以我不知道我不敢打斷你請說是首先第一點2000年那個蘇建和案它並不是一個法庭直播它是一個延伸法庭那至於說它延伸法庭的那個做法當時事實上因為沒有一個立法依據就是很多那個做法是不是可以再進一步檢討就是可以"},{"start":358.288,"end":384.467,"text":"等一下我時間已經到了所以有兩個重點嘛對不對你說延伸直播那你至少做到這一個啊是不是這是你現在比這個還特鐵路耶它就是一個法庭直播的型態嘛它等於是第一時間出來的時候我們對著攝影機拍嘛那你至少做到這一點你連這一點都還做不到怎麼會這麼離譜呢好那更嚴重了我跟你講今天我聽了一個早上你們在請答我是媒體人出身的"},{"start":385.954,"end":407.614,"text":"這本來我們的法律裡面就明定啊有牽涉到人權或者一些機密的你就可以遮蔽啊我自己檢查現在有多久你稍微delay的大概30秒甚至10秒你都可以處理啦該蓋的東西 該遮蓋的東西都可以那台灣沒那麼浪漠欸你們講的好像洪水猛獸"},{"start":409.738,"end":435.599,"text":"你技術上也做得到 對不對以前都已經有 全世界也有從你民調去看七成以上的民眾結果你們現在今天到今天還在這邊硬拗我們是五前憲法的國家嘛立法院非常尊重司法院而且認為這是一個進步的立法 公開透明所以我們給了你很多的彈性跟尊重結果你們現在要踐踏的立法院跟名利又是對撞的"},{"start":440.489,"end":457.915,"text":"馬上要審預算啦 我跟你講 這個一定在預算裡面我們會好好反映出這次司法院踐踏的這個立法院也跟踐踏民意這個回去我再好好想一想 我也對著所有司法院的好朋友們喊話"},{"start":459.956,"end":485.414,"text":"當司法改革向前的一步在改革跟公開透明還有特特路25年還比不上印尼印度比不上埃及跟南非公開透明度而且違反了70以上民眾這個需求跟他們的這個期待這樣的司法有辦法得到人民的這個認同嗎司法已經非常脆弱了好 回去再好好思考 好不好 好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":638,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時38分）謝謝主席。請副秘書長。"],["主席：好，有請王副秘。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早安。"],["張委員啓楷：副祕，法庭直播本來應該是司法改革的一大步，而且在所有的民調裡面，大概都有超過七成以上的絕對多數民眾要求要法庭直播，立法院也三讀通過了相關法律。結果你們現在不只踐踏了立法院，你們還踐踏了民意，跟七成以上的民眾對著幹，我現在就要進一步地提醒你：法庭直播在臺灣早就有了，你為什麼比以前還「倒退嚕」？你是這麼資深的司法人員，你也知道嘛，2000年審蘇建和案的時候，臺灣就首開先例，在法庭外面架設了電視機，當場就現場直播了！結果過了25年，同樣一個司法院，比25年前還「倒退嚕」，把好不容易三讀通過的法庭直播用黑布蓋起來！以前國防部在洪仲丘案的時候，連基礎的錄影都不願意公布，大家笑說是「國防布」，蓋了黑布，不是部會的「部」，是黑布的「布」。現在司法院變成什麼？也蓋了黑布嗎？我給你看一下影片，來，我們看一下當初是怎麼做法庭直播。","（播放影片）"],["張委員啓楷：副秘，這是2000年11月16日，那時候只有老三台，那怎樣做法庭直播？開庭的時候，在外面架一部電視機，所有的記者、攝影記者就直接第一時間直播，你們怎麼會「倒退嚕」？你是這麼資深的從業人員，同一個司法院，為什麼過了25年，我們往公開、透明在走，結果你們還抱持著保守跟傳統，而且還「倒退嚕」了25年，這是第一點。","第二點更嚴重，我為什麼今天給你看這個？沒有立法的時候，臺灣都已經可以有法庭直播了；現在立法完之後，你要再用黑布把它蓋起來，你看看你的那個辦法，你這樣怎麼對得起司法改革呢？怎麼對得起人民呢？柯文哲都不怕啊！民眾黨也不怕啊！司法院跟檢察官到底在怕什麼？怕任何不正訊問，有誘導、有脅迫、有一些不法的行為公諸於世嗎？為什麼連這個東西都要蓋呢？我剛剛給你看的是以前的影片，來，我們來看全世界。全世界各大洲都有法庭直播啊，在亞洲有新加坡、南韓、印尼、巴基斯坦，連你們常常在批評的中國、印度都有啊！連非洲的埃及、南非、南非共同體都有啊！我們臺灣的司法有比印尼、印度還落後？有比埃及、南非還落後嗎？副秘書長，我們臺灣司法的公開透明度比這些國家都還落後嗎？我們不是一直都是走路有風，我們不是模範生嗎？好不容易往前跨了一步，到底司法院在怕什麼？檢察官在怕什麼？有什麼見不得人的事情？今天副秘書長都講不出話，還是不知道怎麼講？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我現在要回答嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：對，請說。我已經問你幾次，你都不答，是不敢回答，還是不願意回答？"],["王副秘書長梅英：因為委員一直繼續講，所以我不敢打斷。"],["張委員啓楷：請說。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。首先，第一點，2000年的蘇建和案，並不是一個法庭直播，而是一個延伸法庭；至於延伸法庭的那個做法，當時事實上因為沒有一個立法依據，很多做法是不是可以再進一步檢討……"],["張委員啓楷：停一下，我的時間已經到了。你說的是有兩個重點嘛，對不對？"],["王副秘書長梅英：對。"],["張委員啓楷：你說那是延伸直播，那你至少做到這一個啊，你現在做的比這個還「倒退嚕」！它就是一個法庭直播的型態，等於是第一時間出來的時候，我們對著攝影機拍，那你至少做到這一點，你連這一點都做不到，怎麼會這麼離譜呢？好，那更嚴重了。我跟你講，今天我聽了一個早上你們的詢答，我是媒體人出身的，我們的法律裡面本來就有明定，有牽涉到人權或一些機密的部分，你就可以遮蔽。所以你稍微delay 30秒，甚至10秒，你都可以處理，該蓋的東西大概都可以蓋，臺灣沒有那麼落伍，但你們講得好像洪水猛獸！你技術上也做得到，對不對？以前都已經有，全世界也有，從民調去看，七成以上的民眾都贊成，結果你們到今天還在這邊硬拗？我們是五權憲法的國家，立法院非常尊重司法院，而且認為這是一個進步的立法，公開、透明，所以我們給了你們很多的彈性跟尊重，結果你們現在又踐踏了立法院，跟民意又是對撞的。馬上要審預算了，我跟你講，我們一定會在預算裡面好好反映出這次司法院踐踏了立法院，也踐踏了民意，回去之後還是要好好想一想。我也要對著所有司法院的好朋友們喊話，當司法改革向前了一步，在改革及公開透明上，竟然還「倒退嚕」二十五年，還比不上印尼、印度，比不上埃及和南非的公開透明度，而且違反70%以上民眾的需求與期待，這樣的司法有辦法得到人民的認同嗎？司法已經非常脆弱了，請你們回去再好好思考，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在。","接下來請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":110,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-4","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","羅智強","吳宗憲","王鴻薇","沈發惠","王義川","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","林倩綺","張啓楷","林國成","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","傅崐萁"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}