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12:40:28","會議時間":"2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n五、委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n【僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.37284375,"end":28.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.54096875,"end":31.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.071593750000005,"end":37.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.21909375,"end":42.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.85971875,"end":56.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.98409375000001,"end":58.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.51534375000001,"end":60.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.814718750000004,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.641593750000006,"end":65.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.86034375,"end":66.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.46346875,"end":71.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.58096875000001,"end":75.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.74034375000001,"end":78.78659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.79909375000001,"end":82.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.05596875,"end":83.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.07659375,"end":88.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.99596875,"end":91.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.65784375000001,"end":93.34971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.48034375,"end":97.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.82159375,"end":98.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.76221875,"end":100.47096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.10784375,"end":106.59659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.27159375000001,"end":108.26721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.03909375,"end":111.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.96284375,"end":112.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.03034375,"end":113.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.61659375,"end":113.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.68409375,"end":113.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.90346875,"end":118.15596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.89846875,"end":121.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.35409375,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.70409375000001,"end":121.10909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.61534375000001,"end":128.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.09159375,"end":125.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.75346875,"end":130.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.28471875,"end":132.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.12409375000001,"end":134.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.77721875,"end":140.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.17346875,"end":142.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.38409375,"end":144.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.66659375,"end":145.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.08409375000002,"end":148.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.44221875000002,"end":153.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.75784375,"end":160.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.84534375,"end":171.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.13471875000002,"end":174.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.56034375000002,"end":177.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.72471875000002,"end":178.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.32784375,"end":180.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.44971875000002,"end":184.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.91346875000002,"end":193.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.53221875,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.59909375,"end":200.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.60721875000002,"end":204.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.29846875,"end":205.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.15471875,"end":208.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.87596875000003,"end":212.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.95534375000003,"end":215.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.74409375000002,"end":220.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.30034375000002,"end":221.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.24096875,"end":239.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.43659375000001,"end":242.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.19971875000002,"end":246.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.97971875000002,"end":248.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.46034375000002,"end":250.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.07596875000002,"end":252.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPE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請紅部長"},{"start":31.066,"end":31.087,"text":"請紅部長"},{"start":37.116,"end":66.09,"text":"張委員好外送平台是在2012年登錄台灣的然後這段時間我們已經很多的這個外送平台跟專家寫者還有外送員都在呼籲說趕快制定了這個專法之前還爆發了兩大外送平台合併的這個危機還好還好在大家強力的監督跟執行之下公平會"},{"start":67.743,"end":92.922,"text":"從善如流以獨立機關該有的把關跟審議沒有讓兩大平台合併通過今天要非常謝謝主席開始排審這個專法可是呢我們不禁的要問民進黨已經執政9年多之前"},{"start":94.677,"end":117.304,"text":"還是一黨獨大立法院是絕對的多數在那八年立法院的民進黨黨團或者行政院都沒有提出相關的這個版本包括洪部長你2020年就開始當部長嘛對不對是對啊你那時候是大家認為說你是號稱關心社會跟勞動權益的"},{"start":119.719,"end":148.115,"text":"當2020當立委當這個2020當立委當立委嘛對啊然後後來當了這個部長你當立委任內民進黨一黨獨大沒有看到民進黨的版本你又當了一年多了我現在還是沒有看到行政院的版本好我們來看一下這13年來民間跟民眾黨或者是在野人士做的怎麼樣的一個努力"},{"start":149.485,"end":174.76,"text":"柯文哲在當台北市長的時候他在2019年跟台北市的勞動局局長賴香寧推動之下制定了全台灣第一個台北市外送平台業者的管理自治條例這是我們的第一個自治條例我們那時候也呼籲要馬上制定專法呼籲中央可是"},{"start":176.587,"end":197.226,"text":"民進黨一直都沒有動我們來做一個總結109年10月23號針對外送員在立法院提出第一次修正案的要修職業安全衛生法部分條文修正案的是民眾黨團最早提出外送專法的草案是誰"},{"start":198.649,"end":220.843,"text":"第十屆立法院112年4月28號是民眾黨所提出來的專法到了本屆台灣民眾黨再次提出修正的專法我在經濟委員會有好幾次提出執行一外面要求要提專法第二個要避免"},{"start":222.247,"end":250.059,"text":"我們的消費者跟外送員的這個潛力受到損害包括去年的9月10號我還主持了外送平台的併過案的公聽會我們要求不要市場壟斷而且要趕快訂專法保障我們的這個消費者今天我特別要提醒的也是我擔心的民進黨在昨天開始開的記者會展開了零案攻擊我要問過去10年"},{"start":252.113,"end":281.171,"text":"民進黨或者民進黨黨團有提出幾個外送平台跟外送員潛力的專法嗎零昨天聽說他們記者會提出一個法案來主席我們今天我看了一下我們今天要審了六個案子一個唯一黨團提出來是台灣民眾黨另外有五個是國民黨的版本我們今天應該沒有要審民進黨的版本"},{"start":283.12,"end":306.353,"text":"好 我最擔心的是昨天傍晚的時候我們的行政院長卓榮泰在答詢的時候說為了保障外送員的權益他希望明年一月份的時候跟立法院討論整套的這個質疑還在拖嗎 要以拖待變嗎台灣民眾黨已經把它當為優先的這個法案我們力爭"},{"start":309.055,"end":337.166,"text":"這個會期一定要完成三讀為了保障我們的消費者保障外送員的這個潛力火車已經開了今天非常謝謝主席排審了如果民進黨跟總統派還要在夜台那邊喊火車回來要等到明年一月份就把他們留在原地我們繼續往前開盡量盡快完成三讀我們來保障我們消費者潛力跟外送員的潛力"},{"start":339.524,"end":339.917,"text":"部長同意嗎"},{"start":341.912,"end":370.274,"text":"跟委員說明其實我想行政部門的版本我們這幾個月其實很積極的正在研議那我們剛剛其實也跟委員有報告了那當然現在進入到最後的法制作業的階段那當然因為法制作業階段還需要一點點的時間所以如果當然委員的審議如果願意再給我們多一點點的時間的話那我們也願意盡快的趕快來把行政部門的版本來提出"},{"start":370.882,"end":392.437,"text":"現在不是連民進黨都提版本出來了嗎我們是非常理性務實科學如果民進黨的版本裡面有真的是條文還不錯的大家會採納啊可是可以行政要快一點好不好當然盡快我覺得不可能不可能你們自己如果火車開了要保障這個這個消費者要保障這個外送的這個權利人民不會等他們的我們立正盡快在這個會議完成三讀謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1034,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時34分）謝謝主席，請洪部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：張委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：外送平台是在2012年登陸臺灣的，這段時間已經有很多外送平台、專家學者及外送員都在呼籲要趕快制定專法，之前還爆發了兩大外送平台合併的危機，還好在大家強力的監督跟執行之下，公平會從善如流，以獨立機關該有的把關跟審議，沒有讓兩大平台的合併通過。今天要非常謝謝主席開始排審這個專法，可是我們不禁要問，民進黨已經執政九年多，之前還是一黨獨大，在立法院是絕對多數，在那八年，立法院的民進黨黨團或者行政院都沒有提出相關的版本，包括洪部長，你2020年就開始當部長嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["張委員啓楷：那時候大家認為你是號稱關心社會跟勞動權益的，可是那4年……"],["洪部長申翰：2020年是當立委。"],["張委員啓楷：當什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：2020年是當立委。"],["張委員啓楷：當立委嘛，對啊，然後後來當了部長嘛！你當立委任內是民進黨一黨獨大啊，但沒有看到民進黨的版本，你又當了一年多的部長，我現在還是沒有看到行政院的版本耶！","我們來看一下，這十三年來，民間跟民眾黨或在野人士做了怎麼樣的努力？柯文哲在當臺北市長的時候，他在2019年跟臺北市勞動局局長賴香伶的推動之下，制定了全臺灣第一個臺北市外送平台業者管理自治條例，這是我們的第一個自治條例，我們那時候也呼籲中央要馬上制定專法，可是民進黨一直都沒有動。","我們來做一個總結，109年10月23號針對外送員在立法院提出第一個修正案要修職業安全衛生法部分條文修正案的是民眾黨團，最早提出外送專法草案的是誰？第10屆立法院、112年4月28號是民眾黨所提出來的專法，到了本屆，台灣民眾黨再次提出修正的專法。我在經濟委員會好幾次提出質詢，一方面要求要提專法，第二個要避免我們的消費者跟外送員的權益受到損害，包括去年9月10號我還主持了外送平台併購案的公聽會，我們要求不要市場壟斷，而且要趕快制定專法，以保障我們的消費者。","今天我特別要提醒的，也是我所擔心的，民進黨昨天開始召開的記者會展開了零案攻擊，我要問，在過去十年民進黨或者民進黨黨團有提出幾個外送平台跟外送員權益的專法嗎？零！昨天聽說他們記者會提出一個法案。主席，我看了一下我們今天要審的6個案子，唯一一個由黨團提出來的是台灣民眾黨版，另外5個是國民黨委員的版本，我們今天應該沒有要審民進黨的版本。我最擔心的是昨天傍晚我們的行政院長卓榮泰在答詢的時候說，為了保障外送員的權益，他希望明年1月份跟立法院討論整套指引，還在拖嗎？要以拖待變嗎？台灣民眾黨已經把它當作優先法案，我們力爭這個會期一定要完成三讀，為了保障我們的消費者及保障外送員的權益，火車已經開了，今天非常謝謝主席排審了，如果民進黨跟卓榮泰還要在月臺那邊喊火車回來，要等到明年1月份，就把他們留在原地，我們繼續往前開，儘快完成三讀，我們來保障消費者的權益跟外送員的權益。部長同意嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，有關行政部門的版本，我們這幾個月其實很積極地正在研議，我們剛剛也跟委員報告了，現在進入到最後的法制作業階段，因為法制作業階段還需要一點點的時間，如果委員的審議願意再給我們多一點時間的話，我們也願意儘快地把行政部門的版本提出來。"],["張委員啓楷：現在不是連民進黨都提版本出來了嗎？我們是非常理性、務實、科學，如果民進黨的版本裡面真的有還不錯的條文，大家會採納啊，所以行政院要快一點，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["張委員啓楷：儘快，你們自己要快，因為火車要開了，要保障消費者、外送人員的權益，人民不會也不可能等他們的，我們力爭儘快在這個會期完成三讀，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員發言。","請許宇甄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}