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逆者算明你就要聽喔"},{"start":217.21,"end":246.07,"text":"你經濟沒發泡那麼多 藥劑跟你說我都合法 你就要聽嗎要負責嗎 當然要負責啊藥劑清洗是不是藥劑在洗所以水質 它還在發泡 你聽到沒有它還在發泡 讓清潔藥劑去做所以這個水質一定要定期檢查 就是這樣水質定期檢查合理嘛 都檢出"},{"start":247.642,"end":271.468,"text":"有寫這個成分的時候那麼民意代表鄉親敬意關心有合理沒有啦有合理沒有但是沒有檢查出來 到目前為止在嘉南農田水理會的網站要說明清楚嘛這個任理事的介面"},{"start":274.429,"end":288.914,"text":"畢竟這個到底是天然的都會說那是天然的啦因為你如果是用清潔劑洗的話它的容量會不一樣啦到底天然的要合成的你用殼那個塑膠"},{"start":292.455,"end":319.062,"text":"因為有青蛇夾架出來主撲公他們可能有用到完皮包的鄉民洗個澡啦這個洗個澡就算是供送啦專門在洗替身啦洗鄉民的當有這個消息出來當然我們會更加關心嘛所以本縣提議要求夾架合時合地準備青蛇要說不"},{"start":321.69,"end":344.955,"text":"可以 可以 這個可以 好來要求嚴重 清洗的時候 要淨泡 做得夠的因為 你說用水口的水洗啊沒有煮來水啊 煮那要洗進去啊他水要怎麼清進去 他用水口的水洗洗得乾淨 洗不乾淨 不管可以淨泡嗎 沒錯 有辦法淨泡嗎"},{"start":347.912,"end":366.877,"text":"我們就是他要清洗的時候我們可以讓大家知道有興趣的人可以來參加可以這樣嗎可以要求他給我們賺那麼多錢可以要求他清洗的時候採出特別的硬幣依照工信給我們台南的鄉親說這水這樣他用水口的水洗"},{"start":369.398,"end":396.85,"text":"有的人說用水口的水勢也有問題這點分析可以同意沒有問題那個技術上看他直播但是我們請那個村里的辦公室的同仁一起去你們又找村里辦公室了啦你一定很沒用的啦你一定很關心但是他眼睛金金人最重要的就是你們的病了可以要求嚇死民眾要派代表的話也可以啦"},{"start":397.729,"end":413.695,"text":"嚇死啦業者他是清洗的行為人嘛我們要看技術上可不可行啦第一 這沒什麼新本啦第一 這沒什麼新本啦他如果不可行他可以通知本縣我們可以幫忙"},{"start":415.909,"end":416.57,"text":"我們一定會公開透明 這個是原則啦"},{"start":428.684,"end":449.797,"text":"啊大家在這裡喝水的時候噴口露營是啊 啊公開透明上面要清洗的時候你若能核實核立第一階段要清洗核過核立第二階段要清洗啊我們都裝潔布啊讓大家透明兼施這樣就是讓台南的鄉親把這個紀錄放開啊不然你現在你這樣說人家就不相信你啦我同意啊 就是公開透明做得到的 公開透明 做得到"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1570,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（12時51分）主席，我要邀請龔部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：部長好。本席用河洛話質詢，有沒有問題？"],["龔部長明鑫：應該聽得懂。"],["謝委員龍介：你的故鄉在哪裡？"],["龔部長明鑫：臺北。"],["謝委員龍介：臺北市？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，臺北市。"],["謝委員龍介：所以你……"],["龔部長明鑫：以前內湖算是鄉下。"],["謝委員龍介：內湖現在一坪幾百萬元，你說是鄉下？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有啦！我出生的時候，那時候算鄉下。"],["謝委員龍介：我問你這個問題，是因為，如果你來自水源保護區，了解什麼是水源保護區吧？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我知道。"],["謝委員龍介：臺南市有這麼多水庫，被劃為水源保護區的區域非常大，我們的鄉親想要蓋一間廁所或搭建工寮都不行，都會受到限制、約束。"],["龔部長明鑫：了解。"],["謝委員龍介：水源保護區裡面既然管制這麼嚴格，卻可以設置太陽能板進行發電。本席絕對沒有反對太陽能。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝謝。"],["謝委員龍介：但我反對的是不正常的太陽能、官商勾結的太陽能、成本很貴的太陽能、污染環境的太陽能，我想大家的態度都是一樣的。請教你，水庫的太陽能收購單價是不是比較高？"],["龔部長明鑫：價格的部分可能要請能源署回答。"],["謝委員龍介：這部分你不了解？難怪。請署長說明一下。"],["李署長君禮：我們是依照不同的態樣，水面型的比小型地面型的貴一點。"],["謝委員龍介：貴多少？比較好賺，比較好賺就比較大膽。"],["李署長君禮：大概在4元以下，我們查一下差額，因為有分好幾個級距。"],["謝委員龍介：差額大約0.45元啦！比其他太陽能多出零點四元多。照理說，水面上的發電效率會比陸上的發電效率好一點。"],["李署長君禮：對，理論上是這樣，因為溫度比較低一點。"],["謝委員龍介：所以發電量較多的，價格也會比較好。在水源保護區裡面，鄉親最擔心的就是水受到污染，我想大家都很關心，怕飲用水、灌溉用水受到污染。本席身為民意代表替鄉親提出質疑，有本會的委員說，廠商已經說明清楚了，清洗時根本沒有使用清潔劑，你們還繼續提這個問題，所以對本席提告。部長，你的看法如何？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，我們是釐清啦！如果有誤解，我們就儘量釐清，沒有這樣。"],["謝委員龍介：誤解？身為民意代表，我告訴你，雖然經過業者的充分說明，但是業者說明的你們就要聽信嗎？經濟部發包那麼多業務，只要業者說他們都是合法的，你們就要聽信嗎？要不要查證？當然要查證啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：對，要查證。"],["謝委員龍介：是業者負責清洗就是業者洗的嗎？不是啊！他們會再發包，你懂嗎？他們會再發包給清潔業者去做。"],["龔部長明鑫：所以水質一定要定期檢查。"],["謝委員龍介：水質定期檢查是合理的嘛！當檢驗出含有清潔劑的成分時，民意代表、鄉親當然會質疑、關心，這樣合理嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：但是到目前為止沒有檢查出來。"],["謝委員龍介：在嘉南農田水利會的網站上，他們要說明清楚嘛！陰離子的介面活性劑是天然的嗎？因為農業部說那是天然的，到底是天然的……"],["龔部長明鑫：如果是用清潔劑清洗的話，它的含量會不一樣。"],["謝委員龍介：到底是天然的還是合成的？你們要提出科學數據，這是第一。第二，有清洗業者自爆，他們可能有用粉紅豹外牆清潔劑，這種清潔劑就屬於強酸，專門用來洗鐵鏽、牆面。因為有這種消息傳出來，我們當然會更關心啊！所以本席提議，要求業者公布何時、何日準備清洗，做得到嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以，這個可以。"],["謝委員龍介：好。要求業者清洗的時候要直播，做得到嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以啊！他們要清洗的時候……"],["謝委員龍介：因為他們說是用水庫的水清洗，那裡沒有自來水，要用船載人進去，不然水要怎麼運進去？他們說用水庫的水清洗，不管洗不洗的乾淨。部長，可以直播嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：他們要清洗的時候，我們可以讓大家知道，有興趣的人可以看。"],["謝委員龍介：是這樣嗎？他們賺了那麼多錢，可以要求他們清洗的時候採取直播的影片以昭公信，讓臺南鄉親知道他們是用水庫的水清洗，不會污染。也有人說用水庫的水清洗也會有污染，這點本席可以同意，沒有污染。"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有啦！技術上要看怎麼直播。"],["謝委員龍介：可以嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們可以請村里辦公室的同仁一起去。"],["謝委員龍介：你們不要再找村里辦公室了，里長很忙啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：我們也會通知。"],["謝委員龍介：里長是很關心，但是他也不能眼睜睜看你們亂來。可以要求業者……"],["龔部長明鑫：民眾要派代表的話也可以啦！"],["謝委員龍介：業者啦！業者是清洗的行為人嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：我們要看技術上可不可行啦！"],["謝委員龍介：第一，這個沒有增加成本，如果不可行，他們可以通知本席，我們可以去幫忙。"],["龔部長明鑫：我再和署長討論看看。"],["謝委員龍介：這沒有增加成本。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們一定會公開透明，這是原則啦！"],["謝委員龍介：讓鄉親知道這麼做沒有問題，不是你們說沒有就沒有，我說有就有，大家在這裡互相潑水有用嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：是啦！他們清洗的時候要公開透明。"],["謝委員龍介：何時、何日第一階段要清洗？何月、何日第二階段要清洗？全部都直播，讓大家可以透明的檢視。"],["龔部長明鑫：可以！"],["謝委員龍介：這就能讓臺南鄉親解開疑慮，不然現在不管你們怎麼說，大家都不相信你們啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：我同意啊！就是公開透明。"],["謝委員龍介：做的到嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以。"],["謝委員龍介：好。"],["主席：接下來羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員不在。","萬美玲、萬美玲、萬美玲委員不在。","牛煦庭、牛煦庭、牛煦庭委員不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","現在請林楚茵委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-6","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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