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銅板沒有"},{"start":37.894,"end":45.18,"text":"我想我們會一系列的啦不是 因為你報告有寫嘛你報告已經寫了嘛 基本上銅板不會改嘛銅板不會 銅板不會因為那個清車道成本比較高嘛對不對 紙鈔你要改嘛是不是 所以我就跟你確定說是不是一千塊的也要改 一百塊的也要改是不是可能"},{"start":62.031,"end":64.212,"text":"我們會諮詢委員我們就是一系列這樣的來討論這個總裁啊我原來都覺得你很獨立沒有政治考量你這個的話就是呼應"},{"start":82.803,"end":101.68,"text":"這個執政黨的這種轉型正義的做法嘛原來彭總裁的手在那裡說不用蓋 蓋得到他五百億 要五百億結果你原來去年的時候 今年吧是不是那個什麼十二強去年還是今年啊"},{"start":102.699,"end":103.86,"text":"我跟委員報告基本上我們這一次的改版絕對不會有政治上的一個考量"},{"start":131.088,"end":143.178,"text":"因為我們這邊寫得很清楚啊我們的鈔券都已經24年如果相較於主要的國家來比較我們真的是很慢了美國最近也沒有改版啊"},{"start":144.52,"end":147.363,"text":"美國有嗎美國也改版很久以前啦2016年我說我們這邊也有一個有啦 但是你沒有列美國啊美國就跟你講美國改版是把華盛頓的人頭原來小小的變成大大的"},{"start":163.118,"end":165.439,"text":"是這樣子人頭是把小小的變大大的改版是這樣改的你現在來講的話這個很清楚就是轉型正義的後面的以法工作絕對沒有絕對沒有我在國衛殿堂呢我不會打狂語而且"},{"start":188.05,"end":200.581,"text":"我比较另外一个角度给你看啦我本来对你是很尊敬的啦我希望以后要继续啦不能继续尊敬啦因为你的任期到什么时候"},{"start":202.207,"end":205.99,"text":"可能還兩年左右兩年半啦 你兩年半嘟嘟好這個東西嘟嘟好 你要接任期的時候接起來看要不要接第三任就變這樣沒有沒有 委員講得太遠了講得太遠會讓我沒辦法"},{"start":221.82,"end":223.883,"text":"委員講得太遠了讓我沒辦法想像你說從開始這個委員會謝謝委員不過委員一直都在支持我們還有鼓勵我們我們也希望這一個改版的事情委員能夠支持我們"},{"start":238.597,"end":244.242,"text":"如果太多政治的話就不會支持了不會啦 不會啦那我就問你 準備花多少錢啊 你跟我講啦準備花多少錢我們這邊也有講啊就是說一張的成本會加1.5元不是啦 那你全部要花多少錢啊包括紙面板什麼之類的我說看我們的發行的量啦"},{"start":263.236,"end":271.561,"text":"但是我跟各位 我跟委員報告如果說以現在目前的量過去發電量多少現在目前現在是50億流通在"},{"start":276.271,"end":278.753,"text":"你們兩個跟他講話時間要把我扣掉了現在就是說我們流通在外的是10億張但是他會慢慢的下來但是就是說因為他的張數沒辦法控制不曉得因為他會有下降的一個趨勢我們只列出就是說每張1.5"},{"start":301.641,"end":312.304,"text":"增加1.5增加1.5那你看看我們報告委員那就是60億沒有報告委員我跟你報告一下3.5我們如果一張3.5增加到1.5的話大概是增加40%左右但是你要想想看24年"},{"start":323.967,"end":333.575,"text":"對不對 24年增加那你現在的物料什麼的啊24年 然後增加百分之四十五我覺得是合理的現在都還沒辦法評估嘛因為它的量未來它的量不曉得啊我跟委員報告我們那個時候的五百億"},{"start":350.598,"end":353.547,"text":"五分之四以上都是銅板"},{"start":355.356,"end":366.602,"text":"五分之四以上都是銅牌那乘以五分之一好了那是一百億啊那乘以五分之一就一百億啊五分之一啦好了就五分之一一百億嘛所以我果然沒錯嘛就是要改這個要一百億嘛那是以前的估算啦那是以前的估算現在估算更高啊現在不曉得啊要看那個張數啊不是 現在物價的成本物價上漲能夠增加所以我就說1.5啊1.5啊所以我說喔如果說我們不現在改版的話呢成本會更高"},{"start":386.5,"end":389.783,"text":"成本會更高所以現在時間現在的時點是剛好啦24年我們這邊來看的話14年16年11年到24年那我們是最慢的這個鈔票是什麼地方愛了你的銀啦這個東西"},{"start":404.597,"end":425.142,"text":"一千塊的也沒有政治人物啊一千塊的有誰有誰啊你講到這裡的時候我也跟你報告所以呢我們的土壤你看看像包括就是說我們那個科技我們的科技你看看我們那個科技我們一千塊跟兩千塊的科技跟我們現在台灣的一個科技來比較的話我覺得啊"},{"start":427.262,"end":432.304,"text":"哇 我們科技發展得很怪所以我總覺得 那是那個我們要與時俱進與時俱進 這個東西你說沒有你的考量是大家是不會相信的啦沒有沒有沒有 絕對沒有最少我都不會相信的"},{"start":444.95,"end":453.675,"text":"跟這個有關係的世界十二強的時候我們有紀念幣紀念銀幣一幣一枚是1600塊預購上限36000枚那是好多人要結果抽籤抽到結果繳款只有2.85剩下7500"},{"start":466.362,"end":467.403,"text":"你怎麼處理我們就是說他有繳款的我們就製造這麼多我們就製造這麼多因為為什麼會上線因為有很多人就怕抽不到"},{"start":481.644,"end":485.245,"text":"所以他就重複的去那個他重複下單結果他抽到重複下單他抽到6個那當然他大概是繳款所以你不會再發行不會啦因為我覺得這樣的話造成我們的困擾這是第一個第二個好像市場上也認為就是說延太久的時候也會冷掉"},{"start":511.914,"end":516.995,"text":"這個世界十二強老實講都認為紀念幣不錯啊 我也覺得不錯啦當然啦 我們會 但是現在就是已經確定了確定就說他繳款的是有多少萬枚 那我們就製造我們再看喔 那個總裁 美國下手決定降息 一般預估他會降息嘛 對不對"},{"start":536.6,"end":540.723,"text":"我在想Market都是認為就是說它會降息而且它的Chairman Power他好像也Hint說10月跟12月可能都會降息所以各將一馬 對市場也是這樣的意思降了之後台幣就有升值壓力囉"},{"start":558.714,"end":562.856,"text":"這個也難說啦上一次他不是降息嗎結果他降息之後美元反而強起來所以不要在這裡做猜測這種不是預測這種是猜測猜測的時候我覺得猜測的時候會誤導我們的投資人"},{"start":587.623,"end":614.272,"text":"所以說美國降息 美金會再往上漲這個我不敢這麼說我只是說前面的那個例子就是說他降息的結果呢在美元後面 美元就漲起來那你看喔 川普上任之後 川普的一個做法是盡量不要cash所以黃金一直漲 比特幣一直漲黃金我們要看有沒有增加買啊"},{"start":615.836,"end":618.429,"text":"央行有沒有多拿一點黃金 最近"},{"start":619.285,"end":623.207,"text":"我們沒有 今年開始都沒有增加不過我跟委員報告基本上主要的專案銀行都沒有買黃金去買的是俄羅斯俄羅斯 中國大陸哈薩克可以買當然哈薩克是small還有印度這些大概就是說因為印度也是"},{"start":646.773,"end":660.099,"text":"印度的民間一般來講他中央銀行他是也有買但是民間主要的還是民間的力量不是中央銀行的力量最近的黃金的上漲是民間的力量不是中央銀行的力量所以黃金或是你不干擾這個我不去猜測他我也不去預測他"},{"start":667.338,"end":682.524,"text":"因為你可以看到川普的貸金實施等於說他告訴全世界或有現金都會貶值所以最好是或有其他非現金的一些資產包括黃金包括比特幣這種講法對不對這個我覺得他也不是這麼說"},{"start":688.267,"end":715.869,"text":"現象這樣現象最後一個小問題韓國總統說如果因為美國要他cash他本來說政府融資要保證他都不接受要cash三千五百億他的外存底大概四千多億啊對不對所以他說會引起亞洲金融風暴日本也不答應啊結果我們通通答應了我們要去亞我們要投資四千億我們的外存底只有六千億不到對不對五千八嘛"},{"start":716.63,"end":730.665,"text":"我們的市監獄呢我也不曉得是不是真的就所說的但是即使是有這個市監獄但是大部分都是我們民間的啦不是官方啦我知道啦但是外匯存底啊外匯存底當然是民間的啦外匯存底當然是民間他還是要跟你買匯啊"},{"start":737.202,"end":739.583,"text":"他說我們去那邊去投資的那些他的賺那個美元他賺得很多他不必要在市場買他現在是賣所以我就說他不必用到我們的外市場的不必要韓國說如果他投資3500億會有亞洲金融風暴這一句話"},{"start":760.714,"end":775.267,"text":"你認不認同即使我想他沒有說亞洲金融風暴他是說他會發生金融危機他沒有說亞洲會發生金融危機好像是說他說他韓國會發生金融危機你認不認同這句話當然啦 我知道台灣很健全"},{"start":786.837,"end":800.901,"text":"不是啊 韓國會不會有金融風暴啦他如果去3500億我們台股也是不錯啊 我覺得啊我問你韓國 你跟我講台股台股啊 你說台股嗎沒有 我說韓國會不會金融風暴你說韓國怎麼樣會不會 因為他的總統說如果去投資3500億的話會產生金融風暴他是說他 他不是說亞洲對 那他會 你同意不同意"},{"start":815.105,"end":826.657,"text":"這個我也很難想像啦 我也很難想像說他是三千五百億 這個不要去問我啦應該是要去問他的中央銀行總裁啦還有跟他問他的財政部部長你今天給你都亂說話喔讓我對你的出鏡少了好幾分耶總裁有他的看法啦 寶哥好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":357,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時34分）謝謝。主席以及各位先進。有請楊總裁。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：賴委員早。"],["賴委員士葆：你早。我比較關心的是新臺幣要改版的事情。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員士葆：現在是限定在千元跟百元嗎？還是？銅板沒有？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想我們會一系列的。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，因為你報告已經寫了，基本上銅板不會改嘛？"],["楊總裁金龍：銅板不會。"],["賴委員士葆：因為銅板牽涉的成本比較高，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。"],["賴委員士葆：紙鈔你要改嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["賴委員士葆：所以我跟你確定，是不是一千塊的也要改、一百塊的也要改？"],["楊總裁金龍：可能，我們會諮詢委員……"],["賴委員士葆：兩個都改，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們就是一系列來討論，然後來……"],["賴委員士葆：總裁，我原來都覺得你很獨立、沒有政治考量。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員士葆：你這樣的話，就是呼應執政黨轉型正義的做法嘛！原來彭總裁都守住說不用改，改的話要花500億，原本去年十二強的時候在講，我看你還守得住，我覺得就發紀念銀幣不要發紙鈔，結果你現在還是做了啊！還是政治考量啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，我跟委員報告，基本上這一次的改版絕對不會有政治上的考量。"],["賴委員士葆：那麼奇怪！"],["楊總裁金龍：絕對不會！我們這邊寫得很清楚……"],["賴委員士葆：你當然這樣說……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的鈔券都已經24年沒有改，如果相較其他主要國家，我們真的是很慢了！"],["賴委員士葆：美國沒有改版啊！美國最近也沒有改版啊！美國有嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：美國也改版……"],["賴委員士葆：那是很久以前啊！他把……"],["楊總裁金龍：2016年，我們的報告也有一個表……"],["賴委員士葆：我就跟你講，美國改版是把華盛頓的人頭由原來小小的變成大大的，是這樣子，是把人頭從小小的變大大的，改版是這樣改的。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，報告委員……"],["賴委員士葆：現在來講的話很清楚就是轉型正義後面的尾巴工作啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：不會！絕對沒有！我在國會殿堂不會打誑語。"],["賴委員士葆：好，我比較另外一個角度給你看，我本來對你是很尊敬的。"],["楊總裁金龍：希望以後繼續尊敬。"],["賴委員士葆：不知道能不能繼續尊敬！你的任期到什麼時候？"],["楊總裁金龍：可能還有兩年左右。"],["賴委員士葆：兩年半啦！兩年半剛剛好，這個東西剛剛好，你要接續任期的時候接起來，看要不要接第三任，就是這樣！"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有、沒有、沒有，委員講得太遠了。"],["賴委員士葆：不會啊！兩年半是你講的。"],["楊總裁金龍：講得太遠了，我沒辦法想像！"],["賴委員士葆：你說這個委員會叫新臺幣鈔券……"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝委員，不過委員一直都在支持我們、鼓勵我們，也希望改版的事情委員也能夠支持我們。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，如果太多政治的話就不會支持。"],["楊總裁金龍：不會、不會！"],["賴委員士葆：主委，那我就問你，準備花多少錢？你跟我講準備花多少錢？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的報告也有講，就是一張的成本會加1.5元。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，全部要花多少錢？包括製模版之類的，你報告沒有寫……"],["楊總裁金龍：看我們發行的量……"],["賴委員士葆：按照正常量是多少？過去發行量是多少？"],["楊總裁金龍：跟委員報告，如果以目前……"],["賴委員士葆：你們兩個人講話，時間要幫我扣掉。"],["楊總裁金龍：現在流通在外40億張，但是會慢慢下來，因為張數沒辦法控制所以不曉得，而且會有下降的趨勢，我們只列出每張1.5。"],["賴委員士葆：增加1.5，那製版的錢呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：報告委員……"],["賴委員士葆：做模版的錢呢？那就是60億？"],["楊總裁金龍：報告委員，沒有……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼沒有？這40億，1.5不就是60億！"],["楊總裁金龍：委員，我跟你報告，如果一張3.5增加到1.5的話，大概是增加百分之四十左右，但是你要想想看，24年耶！以現在的物料等等的，24年增加40%，我覺得是合理的。"],["賴委員士葆：總共花多少錢？"],["楊總裁金龍：現在都還沒辦法評估嘛！因為未來的量不曉得啊！"],["賴委員士葆：彭淮南總裁以前說改版要花500億，你要不要花這麼多？"],["楊總裁金龍：跟委員報告，那個時候的500億，五分之四以上都是銅板。"],["賴委員士葆：那乘以五分之一好了，還是100億啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：低於五分之一。"],["賴委員士葆：好，以五分之一就是100億，所以我估的沒錯嘛！改這個就是要100億。"],["楊總裁金龍：那個是以前的估算。"],["賴委員士葆：現在估算更高啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：現在不曉得，還要看張數。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，現在物價上漲、人工增加。"],["楊總裁金龍：所以我就說1.5，如果不現在改版的話，成本會更高！所以現在的時間點是剛好，和報告中其他國家相比，從11年到24年，我們是最慢的。"],["賴委員士葆：鈔票是什麼地方礙了你的眼？一千塊的也沒有政治人物，都好好的，你要改它？"],["楊總裁金龍：委員，你講到這裡我也跟你報告，你看看我們的圖樣，包括科技，你看看一千塊跟兩千塊的科技，跟現在臺灣科技來比較的話，我覺得我們科技發展得很快。"],["賴委員士葆：好啦，你不要跟我講到旁邊去了。"],["楊總裁金龍：所以我總覺得我們要與時俱進。"],["賴委員士葆：與時俱進？這個東西你說沒有特殊考量大家是不會相信的，最少我都不會相信。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有、沒有，絕對沒有！報告委員……"],["賴委員士葆：再來也是跟這個有關係的，世界十二強的時候我們有紀念銀幣。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員士葆：一枚是1,600元，預購上限是3萬6,000枚？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員士葆：那時候好多人要，結果抽籤抽到繳款的只有2.85萬枚，剩下的7,500枚你怎麼處理？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有啊！有繳款的我們就是製造這麼多。"],["賴委員士葆：當然啊！所以剩下7,500枚不要做了？"],["楊總裁金龍：因為有很多人就怕抽不到，所以重複下單，結果他抽到6個，大概只繳款1、2個而已。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你不會再發行7,500枚給大家抽？"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，因為這樣會造成我們的困擾，這是第一個。第二個，好像市場上也認為延太久的話會冷掉。"],["賴委員士葆：為了世界十二強，老實講我都認為紀念幣不錯啊！這7,500枚就發完啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我也覺得不錯。"],["賴委員士葆：那就把它發完，你又不要。"],["楊總裁金龍：當然，我們會，但是現在已經確定了……"],["賴委員士葆：確定只發2萬8,500枚？"],["楊總裁金龍：繳款有多少萬枚我們就製造多少。"],["賴委員士葆：接著看，總裁，美國下週決定降息，一般預估他會降息，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：我在想market都是認為他會降息，而且他們Jerome Powell好像也hint 10月跟12月可能都會降息。"],["賴委員士葆：所以各降1碼，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，市場也是這樣的預期。"],["賴委員士葆：降的時候臺幣就有升值壓力了？"],["楊總裁金龍：也很難說。"],["賴委員士葆：怎麼會難說？這麼淺顯的道理……"],["楊總裁金龍：上一次他們不是降息嗎？結果降息之後美元反而強起來，所以不要在這裡猜測，這種不是預測而是猜測。"],["賴委員士葆：這個是常理A、B、C啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我覺得猜測會誤導投資人，這樣不好。"],["賴委員士葆：所以說美國降息，美金會再往上漲？"],["楊總裁金龍：我不敢這麼說，我只是舉前面的例子，他們降息的結果，美元後來又漲起來。"],["賴委員士葆：你這是「黑龍繞桌」！你看川普上任之後，川普的一個作法是，儘量不要cash，所以黃金一直漲、比特幣一直漲。請問我們央行有沒有增加買黃金？央行有沒有多買一點黃金？最近。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們沒有。"],["賴委員士葆：今年開始都沒有增加？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有。"],["賴委員士葆：你少賺很多！"],["楊總裁金龍：不過我跟委員報告，基本上，主要的中央銀行都沒有買黃金，去買的是俄羅斯、中國大陸……"],["賴委員士葆：哈薩克也買。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，當然哈薩克是small，還有印度。"],["賴委員士葆：印度，這是大的。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。一般來講，他中央銀行也有買，但主要的還是民間的力量，不是中央銀行的力量。最近黃金上漲是民間的力量，不是中央銀行的力量。"],["賴委員士葆：所以黃金的後市你不看好？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個我不去猜測，我也不去預測它。"],["賴委員士葆：因為你可以看到川普等於是告訴全世界握有現金都會貶值，所以最好就是握有其他非現金的一些資產，包括黃金、比特幣，這種講法對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：我覺得他也不是這麼說。"],["賴委員士葆：最後一個小問題，韓國總統說，因為美國要他的cash，本來說政府融資要保證，他都不接受，要cash 3,500億。他的外匯存底大概四千多億，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員士葆：所以他說會引起亞洲金融風暴。日本也不答應啊！結果我們通通答應了，我們要去，我們要投資四千億，而我們的外匯存底只有六千億不到，對不對？五千八……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的四千億，我也不曉得是不是真的就是所說的……即使有這四千億，但大部分都是我們民間的，不是官方啦！我們官方怎麼會去投資四千億……"],["賴委員士葆：我知道，但是外匯存底……"],["楊總裁金龍：那是民間的。"],["賴委員士葆：外匯存底當然是民間，他還是要跟你買匯啊！他去投資還是要跟你買匯。"],["楊總裁金龍：那也不一定，我說我們去那邊投資的那些，哇！他賺美元賺得很多，他不必在市場買。他現在是賣，所以我就說他不必用到我們外匯市場的……不必要。"],["賴委員士葆：回過頭來，我就請你commant，韓國說如果他投資3,500億，會有亞洲金融風暴，這一句話你認不認同？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想，他沒有說亞洲金融風暴……"],["賴委員士葆：有，他有……"],["楊總裁金龍：他是說他會發生金融危機，他沒有說亞洲會發生金融危機。"],["賴委員士葆：他有講亞洲金融危機，你google一下。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有、沒有。好像是他說韓國會發生金融危機。沒有、沒有、沒有。"],["賴委員士葆：你認不認同這句話？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然臺灣很健全啊！臺灣很健全。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，韓國會不會有金融風暴啦？他如果去投資3,500億。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們臺股也是不錯，我覺得。"],["賴委員士葆：我問你韓國，你跟我講臺股。"],["楊總裁金龍：臺股啊！你說臺股嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，我說韓國會不會有金融風暴？"],["楊總裁金龍：你說韓國怎麼樣？"],["主席：會不會引起亞洲金融風暴？"],["賴委員士葆：因為他的總統說如果去投資3,500億的話，會產生金融風暴。"],["楊總裁金龍：他是說他，他不是說亞洲。"],["賴委員士葆：對，那你同不同意？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個我也很難想像這3,500億……這個不要問我，應該是要去問他的中央銀行總裁，還有問他的財政部部長。"],["主席：好啦！"],["賴委員士葆：你今天是「黑龍繞桌」，讓我對你的尊敬扣了幾分。"],["主席：總裁有他的看法。","接下來請郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-4","speakers":["林思銘","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","李坤城","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","王世堅","陳玉珍","葉元之","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","葛如鈞","羅明才"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}