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我們請部長我們再請陳部長我也好部長 我想要了解就是說現在為什麼10月10號台中的養豬場的豬隻出現死亡之後"},{"start":27.441,"end":35.986,"text":"然後他們沒有第一時間做相對應的處理我們的SOP到底是怎麼訂的"},{"start":37.359,"end":65.941,"text":"這也是我們為什麼這個會啟動疫調的非常重要的一個詢問的地方因為一般出現異常死亡的時候地方政府動保處人員要第一時間去看那有可能是一般的疾病或是管理的不當那也有可能有其他的病方但是如果有異常死亡的話應該要更敏感的去檢測啦所以依照我們一般的SOP是如果有豬場"},{"start":67.462,"end":79.316,"text":"出現了死亡而且是異常的死亡我跟委員報告 異常的死亡齁如果是以200頭以上到500頭以下齁他只要租場裡面有百分之"},{"start":81.144,"end":101.66,"text":"3%的话我们就叫异常那异常的部分我们就会地方政府就会去去查嘛都有一定的标准所以异常死亡不是随便讲的这个SOP都有定的非常清楚嘛所以到底到了什么程度一定要去做通报这个你们也讲得非常清楚嘛我觉得我们这一次虽然"},{"start":102.14,"end":120.333,"text":"要疫調可是我們要把重新這個SOP拿出來檢討到底是哪一個環節出了問題然後呢好10月10號台中養豬場豬隻出現死亡之後然後呢台中市政府10月14號是有去訪視的喔結果訪視沒有採樣"},{"start":125.294,"end":154.276,"text":"我想这个东西就是我们一定要去了解的就是当初没有采样是事主不同意采样还是当初是事主可以不同意采样吗不可以如果说动保人员觉得应该要采样的时候事主不得拒绝所以这个部分也是我们要去了解的对这就是我们要了解的事主是不能拒绝的所以这个关键点我觉得这里有两个关键点这也是这个案子发生之后我们希望在未来各县市"},{"start":155.217,"end":178.717,"text":"一定要警惕就是說10月10號出現了死亡為什麼你們沒有去做相對應的動作因為我們有說嘛 異常異常有一個標準到底他是不是有到達異常好10月14號為什麼去到現場訪視沒有採樣這很嚴重耶到底是因為"},{"start":179.938,"end":198.262,"text":"施主不同意可是施主是不能不同意啊因為你已經發現了要去採樣而且有問題了那就有強硬的動作嘛我們的反應都已經定的非常清楚好之後沒有採樣一直到10月20累計死亡到117頭"},{"start":201.417,"end":210.205,"text":"那麼台中市政府才採樣送檢中央你看這當中多久 十天十天耶"},{"start":211.4,"end":239.719,"text":"这是非常严重所以这10天到底是哪一个环节松了我觉得我们要把这个案件变成是一个非常重要我们以后警惕其他县市政府一个很重要的关键是的我想透过这样的一个很清楚的厘清以后那一定有一些必须改进的然后你们就化为新的一个作为然后会通报到通讯到其他的县市政府是"},{"start":240.619,"end":266.392,"text":"這才是最重要然後到了10月21號中央收到檢體並檢驗呈陽性你們就開始動作了對不對就開始動作了好包括我們馬上召開應變的措施會議然後馬上要求要把豬隻整個移動作為管制他到底他的整個足跡到哪裡"},{"start":267.692,"end":293.724,"text":"他的株枝再運到哪裡都要整個管制然後也進行了撲殺那我要問部長那請問我們現在掌控因為畢竟有20天10天 有10天這樣的一個時間空窗期有10天好 這10天我們有掌控這些株枝的所有軌跡嗎"},{"start":296.365,"end":315.951,"text":"有 我們所有的因為我們是以車追廠以廠在追車那從化製車的還有運租車的這些軌跡它整個大範圍的大概關聯廠有33廠那大部分都在台東地區然後比較接近的跟這廠有直接關係的就是有去買租的這個廠"},{"start":317.051,"end":337.88,"text":"沒有異常然後有載運的這個場沒有異常方圓三公里的沒有特別的死亡異常所以現在我們有掌控到方圓三公里的周邊是沒有異常的他的軌跡是沒有異常的那但是還有一些我們目前還在做疫調疫調在了解在追蹤當中33場我們預計這33場多久可以給我們民眾一個安心我想我們預計是在"},{"start":346.164,"end":361.356,"text":"第一個就是五天之內我們有一個初步的結果但是因為有一些潛伏期我們也不能掉以輕心但是我們在前進的應變所裡面每一天都有工作會議看進度然後會跟外界做記者會對外說明"},{"start":362.757,"end":389.05,"text":"我們一定要讓這個訊息完整的對外說明讓民眾來非常公開透明每一次我們有什麼樣的訊息我們就對外因為這不僅是我們食的安全還有我們整個整個豬隻產業的問題所以這牽扯到兩個層面所以我們一定要把它很公開告訴大家現在的狀況到達什麼樣的程度"},{"start":391.491,"end":414.496,"text":"那么我们现在也已经拉高了是不是我们整个一个circle控制的circle是15天是不是我们也是把这样的区块定为15天但是5天5天做一个循环报告对我们15天是因为它有可能的潜伏期所以我们定15天但是我们每5天做一个观察那观察到"},{"start":415.846,"end":444.722,"text":"可能第二個五天的時候如果說我們的疫調有更完整的疫調它沒有對外擴散的風險的時候那我們也許有機會先做部分的解除或是全部的解除這個我們後續才能夠判斷對 因為我們必須如果當我們資訊公開的話然後我們把整個位階拉高然後不斷的一個區段一個區段跟民眾報告跟我們的租资產業報告我相信大家才會安心"},{"start":445.382,"end":462.669,"text":"尤其這一段時間我相信這樣的訊息傳出在我們的產業在我們的食的安全大家都是放大眼睛在看所以我覺得部長這個部分是我們的我們一定要給民眾安心的一個責任我們一定把相關的資訊一定隨時對外說明"},{"start":464.87,"end":494.45,"text":"所以我覺得這件事情有兩個環節一個就是為什麼在10月10號發生的時候沒有直接通報而且在10月14號沒有去採樣到了10月20才做採樣把整個檢體送中央這個一定要查而且這個絕對是未來我們給各縣市的一個非常好的一個樣板跟警惕大家不能再犯"},{"start":494.813,"end":494.919,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":495.8,"end":522.942,"text":"這個一件事就已經搞得這樣子人仰馬翻大家嚇死了所以這個是絕對不能再犯這是一個問題第二個問題是我們整個資訊公開透明把我們整個足跡這個有問題的豬支廠它相關的足跡整個把它疫調的清清楚楚報告所有的人民我相信人民就會安心謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":400,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（10時23分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我想要了解一件事情，在10月10號臺中有養豬場的豬隻死亡之後，為什麼他們沒有在第一時間做相對應的處理？我們的SOP到底是怎麼定的？"],["陳部長駿季：這也是我們在啟動疫調後所詢問的一個非常重要的問題，因為一般在出現異常死亡的時候，地方政府動保處人員要在第一時間去看，有可能是一般的疾病或管理不當，也有可能是因為其他的病，但是如果有異常死亡的話，應該要更敏感的去檢測。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以依照我們一般的SOP，如果有豬場出現了死亡，而且是異常的死亡……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，如果是200頭以上、500頭以下的豬場，只要裡面有3%死亡，我們就叫異常的死亡，那地方政府就會去查，都有一定的標準，所以異常死亡不是隨便講的。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，這個SOP都有定得非常清楚嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以到底到什麼程度就一定要去做通報，這個你們也講得非常清楚。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我覺得我們這一次要疫調，可是我們也要重新把這個SOP拿出來檢討，看看到底是哪一個環節出了問題。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：在10月10號臺中養豬場的豬隻死亡之後，臺中市政府在10月14號有去訪視，結果只有訪視、沒有採樣。"],["陳部長駿季：我想這個東西就是我們疫調要去了解的，當初沒有採樣是因為飼主不同意採樣還是……"],["陳委員亭妃：飼主可以不同意採樣嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：不可以，如果動保處人員覺得應該要採樣，飼主不得拒絕。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊！"],["陳部長駿季：所以這個部分也是我們要去了解的。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們的法令有規定啊！"],["陳部長駿季：對，這就是我們要了解的。"],["陳委員亭妃：飼主是不能拒絕的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我覺得這裡有兩個關鍵點，在這個案子發生之後，我們希望未來各縣市一定要警惕，在10月10號出現了死亡，為什麼你們沒有去做相對應的動作？因為我們說異常有一個標準，到底是不是有達到異常？在10月14號去現場訪視，為什麼沒有採樣？這很嚴重欸！是因為飼主不同意嗎？可是飼主不能不同意啊！因為你已經發現了，要去採樣，而且是有問題的，那就要有強硬的動作，我們的法令都已經規定得非常清楚。好，之後沒有採樣，一直到10月20號，累計死亡117頭，臺中市政府才採樣然後把檢體送中央，你看這當中歷時多久？10天欸！這是非常的嚴重，這10天到底是哪一個環節鬆了？我覺得我們要把這個案件變成是一個非常重要的關鍵，我們以後用來警惕其他縣市政府。"],["陳部長駿季：是的，我想透過這樣一個很清楚的釐清以後，一定有一些必須改進的地方，然後我們就化為一個新的作為，然後會通令到其他的縣市政府。"],["陳委員亭妃：是，這才是最重要的。然後在10月21號中央收到檢體檢驗後呈陽性，你們就開始動作了，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：包括馬上召開應變措施的會議，然後馬上要求要對豬隻移動進行管制，調查整個足跡到哪裡，還有豬隻載運到哪裡，都要整個管制，然後也進行了撲殺。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：那我要問部長，因為畢竟有10天這樣的一段時間，空窗期有10天，我們有掌控這些豬隻在這10天內的所有軌跡嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：有，因為我們是以車在追場、以場在追車，從化製車還有運豬車的這些軌跡查出整個大範圍的關聯場有33場，大部分都在臺中地區，然後比較接近的、跟這個場有直接關係的，就是有去買豬的這個場並沒有異常，然後有載運的這個場沒有異常，在方圓3公里裡面沒有特別的異常死亡。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以現在我們有掌控到方圓3公里的周邊沒有異常。"],["陳部長駿季：對，沒有異常的死亡。"],["陳委員亭妃：軌跡是沒有異常的？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：但是還有一些我們目前還在……"],["陳部長駿季：還在做疫調。"],["陳委員亭妃：做疫調，就是在了解、在追蹤當中。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：有33場嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們預計這33場多久可以查完然後讓我們民眾安心？"],["陳部長駿季：我們預計在5天之內有一個初步的結果，但是因為會有潛伏期，所以我們也不能掉以輕心，我們在前進應變所裡面每一天都有工作會議來討論進度，然後會開記者會對外說明，我們一定要對外說明完整的訊息，讓民眾來……"],["陳委員亭妃：對，要非常公開透明，每一次我們有什麼樣的訊息，我們就對外說明，因為這不僅是我們食的安全，還有我們整個豬隻產業的問題，這牽扯到兩個層面，所以我們一定要很公開的告訴大家現在的狀況達到什麼樣的程度。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們現在也已經拉高了，是不是？我們整個控制的circle是15天嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：是不是我們也把這樣的區塊定為15天，但是5天、5天做一個循環報告？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們定15天是因為有一段潛伏期，所以我們定15天，但是我們每5天做一個觀察，可能在觀察到第二個5天的時候，如果我們有更完整的疫調，並沒有對外擴散的風險，那我們也許有機會先做部分的解除或是全部的解除，這個我們後續才能夠判斷。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，如果我們資訊公開的話，然後我們把整個位階拉高，不斷地一個區段、一個區段的跟民眾報告，還有跟豬隻產業報告，我相信大家才會安心。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：尤其在這段時間這樣的訊息傳出來，關係到我們的產業、我們食的安全，所以大家都是睜大眼睛來看。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我們一定盡到讓民眾安心的責任。"],["陳部長駿季：會的，我們一定隨時對外說明相關的資訊。"],["陳委員亭妃：我覺得這件事情有兩個環節有問題，一個就是在10月10號發生的時候沒有直接通報，而且在10月14號沒有採樣，到了10月20號才採樣然後把整個檢體送中央，這個一定要查。"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：而且這是未來我們給各縣市的一個樣板跟警惕，絕對不能再犯，因為這件事已經搞得人仰馬翻，大家都嚇死了，所以絕對不能再犯，這是第一個問題。第二個問題就是我們整個資訊要公開透明，把整個足跡，這個有問題的豬場相關的足跡整個疫調得清清楚楚，報告所有的人民，我相信人民就會安心，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們一定會，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請張啓楷委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-7","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","張啓楷","邱志偉","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","黃捷","徐欣瑩","陳超明","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長及財政部關務署首長就「非洲豬瘟防檢疫後續防疫精進作為」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}