{"error":false,"id":["164670"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":164670,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164670","日期":"2025-10-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-19-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-23T11:03:37+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-23T11:13:17+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1f1f5c91750503d328135841ef16c002cbd78a287304ef9f378985d1c29b3fea43b8e70d39bd81cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"11:03:37 - 11:13:17","會議時間":"2025-10-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長及財政部關務署首長就「非洲豬瘟防檢疫後續防疫精進作為」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.047843750000000004,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.82284375,"end":10.476593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.286593750000002,"end":12.332843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.762218750000002,"end":18.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.77909375,"end":18.812843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.812843750000003,"end":18.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.96471875,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.032218750000002,"end":19.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.16721875,"end":19.234718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.234718750000003,"end":19.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.403468750000002,"end":19.875968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.68596875,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.126593750000005,"end":37.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.99971875,"end":39.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.205968750000004,"end":42.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.758468750000006,"end":43.298468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.46721875,"end":44.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.884718750000005,"end":46.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.50471875,"end":50.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.432218750000004,"end":52.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.664093750000006,"end":54.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.773468750000006,"end":55.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.22471875,"end":60.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.20284375000001,"end":66.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.21034375,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.48846875000001,"end":70.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.18034375,"end":70.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.23096875,"end":70.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.26471875,"end":70.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.58534375,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.66096875000001,"end":74.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.28096875,"end":76.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.97659375,"end":78.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.37721875000001,"end":80.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.77784375,"end":82.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.30909375,"end":88.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.35034375000001,"end":92.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.94096875000001,"end":90.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.99971875,"end":99.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.69096875000001,"end":97.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.31909375000001,"end":117.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.86596875000001,"end":111.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.66659375,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.03721875000001,"end":123.23534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.70784375000001,"end":125.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.74971875000001,"end":128.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.14159375,"end":137.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.52846875,"end":148.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.21471875,"end":149.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.43784375,"end":152.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.99034375000002,"end":153.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.96471875,"end":158.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.53346875,"end":162.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.60096875000002,"end":159.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.87471875,"end":166.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.63409375,"end":163.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.11034375,"end":168.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.86971875,"end":174.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.99159375000002,"end":171.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.34971875000002,"end":174.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.15971875000002,"end":176.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.44221875000002,"end":179.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.92284375,"end":180.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.82971875,"end":185.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.86346875,"end":181.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.12034375000002,"end":192.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.99284375000002,"end":191.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.97971875000002,"end":217.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.80409375000002,"end":210.15846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.87034375000002,"end":220.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.59971875000002,"end":232.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.87221875,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.02409375000002,"end":233.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.10846875000001,"end":233.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.12534375,"end":233.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.24346875,"end":235.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.88846875000002,"end":239.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.54221875000002,"end":238.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.65596875000003,"end":245.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.63034375,"end":242.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.28784375,"end":247.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.26221875000002,"end":253.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.42596875,"end":254.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.40034375000002,"end":262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.04471875,"end":266.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.40721875,"end":269.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.61346875000004,"end":281.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.58284375,"end":279.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.09659375,"end":292.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.77846875,"end":294.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.34784375000004,"end":304.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.87784375,"end":305.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.65409375,"end":310.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.73409375,"end":308.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.58159375,"end":317.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.79159375,"end":320.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.78721875,"end":320.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.58846875,"end":320.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.60534375000003,"end":328.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.68909375000004,"end":325.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.54096875000005,"end":331.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.75971875000005,"end":342.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.98284375000003,"end":335.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.48471875,"end":338.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.91846875000005,"end":343.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.89284375,"end":344.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.02784375000005,"end":344.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.25971875000005,"end":347.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.16659375,"end":361.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.52721875000003,"end":362.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.29909375,"end":367.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.15909375,"end":369.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.01534375,"end":376.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.95096875,"end":415.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.52034375000005,"end":380.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.10971875,"end":415.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.37534375,"end":415.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.56096875000003,"end":416.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.10096875000005,"end":429.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.96534375000005,"end":420.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.68534375,"end":460.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.69221875000005,"end":440.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.62159375000005,"end":461.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.07284375,"end":461.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.49471875,"end":469.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.33784375000005,"end":467.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.86909375000005,"end":481.81221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.41971875,"end":483.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.29284375000003,"end":487.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.42346875000004,"end":485.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.31346875,"end":487.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.58346875,"end":488.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.61721875,"end":487.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.19096875,"end":509.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.04034375000003,"end":509.62221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.26784375000005,"end":511.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.43221875000006,"end":516.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.3178437500001,"end":513.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.64221875,"end":518.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.8359687500001,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.03846875,"end":520.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.05534375,"end":519.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.60784375,"end":524.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.8940937500001,"end":526.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.3115937499999,"end":527.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.80096875,"end":527.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.01596875,"end":531.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.25596875,"end":531.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.40784375,"end":531.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.54284375,"end":531.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.55971875,"end":531.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.6440937500001,"end":531.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.0659687500001,"end":534.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.66034375,"end":542.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.95909375,"end":541.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.35971875,"end":544.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.65471875,"end":545.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.46471875,"end":550.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.5490937500001,"end":545.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.5828437499999,"end":546.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.0547187500001,"end":554.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.1340937500001,"end":556.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.9565937500001,"end":562.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.36971875,"end":559.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.7409687500001,"end":560.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.5634687500001,"end":579.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.7040937500001,"end":581.8640937499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":9.037,"text":"謝謝謝謝主席 請陳部長我們再請陳部長我也好"},{"start":19.454,"end":39.945,"text":"部長 本期上個禮拜才誇獎說我們農業部對非洲豬瘟的努力防疫做得很好獲得世界動物組織認證成為我們亞洲的首個三大豬瘟的非疫區可以重返國際市場一個禮拜而已就破功了心情怎麼樣"},{"start":42.856,"end":65.823,"text":"很難過很難過好難過檢討追蹤改善立即保護我們豬農產業的未來這才是重點所以本席要請教部長的就是在去年的時候我們有特別提到那個廚餘的問題當然首要的首當其衝的還是境外因為台灣"},{"start":67.49,"end":86.766,"text":"並沒有非洲豬瘟對不對所以今天會發生了但是還沒確定喔你們還要做一個病毒的分析嘛對不對最重要就從境外進來境外進來的話就有防檢署為什麼沒有防檢成功讓這個非洲豬瘟進來這是先決的對不對"},{"start":90,"end":98.446,"text":"對 杜絕於境外 杜絕於境外是第一杜絕於境外是第一 那台灣沒有非洲之溫那這個就是從境外進來的 是不是 是先確定這個問題 所以"},{"start":100.39,"end":127.804,"text":"我們才會訂定了很多強加強保護這個非洲豬瘟的傳染這個問題加強了7年所以我們每次從國外回來的時候就會拿個一張綠色的卡片有沒有在疫區回來的地方這個我們都做了努力的但是今天發生了發生了趕快就要解決所以在這一家"},{"start":129.212,"end":147.887,"text":"台中這一家他的廚餘的問題你們有沒有去開始也在這個疫調當中有去篩檢有去檢疫我想整個疫調裡面包括他的生產環境包括他的廚因為他是自己煮的廚餘經過合格認證的自己煮但是我們也會去調閱所以他在98家當中"},{"start":150.515,"end":152.637,"text":"許可的我們只有98家 435場435場裡面的98家有許可證的其中之一嗎"},{"start":159.614,"end":183.69,"text":"是不是應該每個435場應該每個都是許可的每個都許可可是我們可以許可處理這個廚餘的這部分的對這是環境部要符合環境部的那個檢核再利用的部分那有一些有一些中央珍珠廠他是中央珍珠然後提供給人家所以你們也有定期去抽檢啦對他是每天在珍珠啦那你每天都"},{"start":184.59,"end":210.49,"text":"對 衛務部這邊特別是在珍珠的那個溫度有沒有溫度計都有監控器具去做monitoring以後去處理好 部長我們在2021年10月就開始針對這四養豬只有在200頭以上的中大型的養豬場才可以用高溫珍珠90度以上才可以用這個廚餘對不對是那其他的199頭以下就沒有了是那但是"},{"start":211.07,"end":233.798,"text":"我們在這個廚餘的處理的過程他們載送是屬於自己去載送還是由清潔隊送過去它這個有不同的模式啦那基本上我們不管它的來源是什麼它只要經過90度一個小時的蒸煮的話它的飼料它的那個廚餘就是安全的就可以餵豬啦這個是一個非常重要的好 那清潔隊載運的這個廚餘是怎麼處理"},{"start":237.18,"end":250.213,"text":"這個可能要問環境部會比較清楚那可能各縣市的處理方法也有不一樣的我們桃園的部分的話就會全部送去掩埋堆肥的處理不會送給養豬戶那請問你們的疫調出來這一家的廚藝是怎麼來的"},{"start":255.458,"end":280.665,"text":"我想我們在疫調裡面也會針對他的廚藝的來源包括這些人員的這一家 你就回答我這一家廚藝怎麼來的我現在還在疫調中我現在沒辦法給你這個答案好 本席就問你請去疫調這家的廚藝是他自己去再回來的還是清潔隊送去的我想我們在疫調的時候所以未來部長"},{"start":282.165,"end":303.637,"text":"我們每個縣市都有廚餘的問題都有我們回收廚餘的所以有個各縣市處理方法你都要去追蹤這也是一個破口的問題所以你要去追蹤好不好了解 我想我們針對您剛才的議題我們每天在中央前進應變所這邊如果有得到答案的話我們當天的記者會對外的說明就會說明是"},{"start":304.978,"end":330.731,"text":"所以對每個縣市的廚餘你要去追蹤這些廚餘都是到豬場還是是到掩埋場去堆肥做堆肥處理這個你都要了解我想我們會透過要追蹤去了解透過行政部這邊來了解所以你現在目前都沒辦法確定它是非洲豬瘟還是有病毒的分析我想所以盡快你大概什麼時候會公佈應該是非洲豬瘟確認但是因為在"},{"start":331.892,"end":346.23,"text":"根據WHOA的規範一定要做病毒的分類不過以現在的證據的掌握應該就是非洲豬瘟但是因為通報的關係我們現在還要分析還要做明確確定啦好不好應該明確確定下來"},{"start":347.271,"end":362.279,"text":"那現在本席想請教的就是我們現在既然發生了第一個要看房檢部分如何境外的會跑進來這個一定要再做一個防堵防堵措施再來的話就出於我想請問部長"},{"start":364.141,"end":391.523,"text":"廚餘為什麼當時我們討論的時候你沒有全面禁用你有什麼考量是什麼問題不過我想當年其實因為不同的時代可能有不同的當初有非常多的小廠然後有非常多的這些廚餘小廠199頭都是飼料所以我們那時候的一個非常重要的策略不是說沒有禁止然後就不管它我們在沒有禁止之下但是我們強化我們的廚餘本身的徵阻的監管"},{"start":392.003,"end":415.792,"text":"然後小廠的因為他沒有能力做自己的徵組所以我們把200頭以下的是不准用用用廚餘飼養一定要200頭以上的部分所以這個部分就是一個比較強而有力的監管讓廚餘變成一個安全的飼料而不是像外界說的就是沒有這樣子的一個政策就不管他我們還是有做強力的監管所以你還是有在討論是"},{"start":416.512,"end":439.19,"text":"你说时代不一样经过七年强力的加强现在七年也没有什么时代不一样了可是已经发生了那你现在全面禁用厨余是暂时性还是永久性我们现在是因为为了做疫调我们针对禁止厨余喂养是做这个怕疫情的扩散的一个断点"},{"start":439.77,"end":460.987,"text":"然後包括豬隻禁運也是一個斷點都是這兩個作為都是為了做疫調然後疫調告一段落以後我們就會來做後續的處理特別是這個潛伏期的15天是一定不能移動的然後不能餵養廚餘但是這個部分我們以5天為觀察的週期所以現在是暫時性的對"},{"start":461.587,"end":481.525,"text":"那疫调结束完毕之后的话你会盘整整个状况我们会盘整整个后续的还可不可以用厨余对我们一定是先去做厨余的加强监管然后就算要不要做厨余喂养我们也一定有足够的缓冲剂绝对不会说"},{"start":482.486,"end":507.673,"text":"今天說了明天就停止那這次是因為疫情的關係部長廚餘的部分跟環保局比較有關但是關聯的又是我們養豬戶的所以你在橫向跟環保局這邊要做好一個溝通廚餘的所有的源頭來源的輸送到哪裡供應到哪裡處理的最終辦法這些你們要互相的來做個溝通來處理好不好"},{"start":509.394,"end":533.297,"text":"你們都息息相關 最重要是跟我們的產業溝通像桃園 您桃園那邊也是一個非常重要的我們桃園沒有化製廠全台灣有九個化製廠桃園本身用廚藝的也不少排名在第三我知道 所以我跟部長提醒說桃園沒有化製廠沒有化製廠 你知道我們怎麼處理嗎"},{"start":535.717,"end":554.496,"text":"去跟那個養豬協會請他們用車輛 人力再去雲林處理我們每年要花多少錢你知道嗎我們全台灣有九個化智場對我知道桃園沒有啊所以不同的地方可以互相支援這個也是部長你未來要檢討的一個最重要的因素好不好"},{"start":555.197,"end":573.21,"text":"我們會加強單一場內用生物處理機來處理這樣的話就是也減少了運動所以部長 本市在這邊要求的就是立即要查明感染的源頭全面檢討邊境的檢疫跟廚餘的養豬戶的這個制度針對於受損的養豬戶我們要啟動專案補償的機制守住我們台灣的養豬產業好不好好 我們朝這個目標來努力 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":653,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（11時3分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，本席上個禮拜才誇獎農業部對非洲豬瘟的努力，防疫做得很好，獲得世界動物組織認證，成為亞洲首個三大豬瘟的非疫區，可以重返國際市場。但一個禮拜而已就破功了，心情怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：很難過。"],["呂委員玉玲：很難過，好，難過、檢討、追蹤、改善，立即保護我們豬農產業的未來，這才是重點。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：本席要請教部長，去年的時候我們有特別提到廚餘的問題，當然首當其衝的還是境外，因為臺灣並沒有非洲豬瘟，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以今天發生了，但是還沒確定，你們還要做病毒的分析，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：最重要的就是從境外進來，境外進來的話就有防檢署，為什麼沒有防檢成功，讓非洲豬瘟進來？這是先決問題，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，杜絕於境外是第一優先。"],["呂委員玉玲：杜絕於境外是第一優先，臺灣沒有非洲豬瘟，那這個就是從境外進來的，是不是？先確定這個問題。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們才會訂定很多加強保護非洲豬瘟傳染問題的作法，加強了7年，我們每次從國外回來的時候就會拿到一張綠色卡片，問有沒有從疫區的地方回來，這個我們都做努力了，但是今天發生了，發生了就要趕快解決，所以臺中這一家豬場的廚餘問題，你們有沒有開始在這個疫調當中去篩檢、檢疫？"],["陳部長駿季：整個疫調包括它的生產環境、包括它的廚餘，雖然它是經過合格認證自己煮廚餘，但是我們也會去調閱相關的資料。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以它在98家當中？許可的我們只有98家，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：435場。"],["呂委員玉玲：435場裡面有許可證的98家中的其中之一嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：435場應該每個都是許可的。"],["呂委員玉玲：每個都是許可的？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：可是我們許可處理廚餘的這部分特別……"],["陳部長駿季：對，這是要符合環境部的檢核再利用，有一些中央蒸煮廠，它是中央蒸煮然後提供給人家做……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你們也有定期去抽檢？"],["陳部長駿季：對，衛福部……"],["呂委員玉玲：它是每天在蒸煮，而你們是定期去抽檢？"],["陳部長駿季：衛福部這邊，特別是蒸煮的溫度，溫度計都有監控機具去做monitoring以後再去處理。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。部長，我們從2021年10月開始，飼養豬隻在200頭以上的中大型養豬場，經過高溫蒸煮90度以上才可以用這個廚餘，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：其他199頭以下就沒有了？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：但是這個廚餘的處理過程，是自己去載送，還是從清潔隊送過去？"],["陳部長駿季：這個有不同的模式，基本上，我們不管它的來源是什麼，只要經過90度C、1個小時的蒸煮，它的廚餘就是安全的，就可以餵豬，這是一個非常重要的條件。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，清潔隊載運這個廚餘是怎麼處理？"],["陳部長駿季：這個可能要問環境部會比較清楚。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，可能各縣市的處理方法也不一樣。"],["陳部長駿季：對，可能有點不一樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：我們桃園的部分就會全部送去掩埋堆肥來處理，不會送給養豬戶。請問你們的疫調出來，這一家的廚餘是怎麼來的？"],["陳部長駿季：我們在疫調裡面也會針對它廚餘的來源，包括這些人員的……"],["呂委員玉玲：你就回答我這一家的廚餘是怎麼來的，它自己去載的？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，還在疫調中，我現在沒辦法給你答案。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，本席就請你去疫調，這家的廚餘是自己去載回來的，還是清潔隊送去的？"],["陳部長駿季：確定是自己蒸煮的，我想我們在疫調的時候……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，每個縣市都有回收廚餘的問題，所以各縣市的處理方法，你都要去追蹤，這也是一個破口的問題，所以你要去追蹤，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：了解，針對您剛才的議題，我們每天在中央前進應變所如果有得到答案的話，當天記者會就會對外說明。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，所以對於每個縣市的廚餘……"],["陳部長駿季：對，包括每個縣市。"],["呂委員玉玲：你要去追蹤這些廚餘都是到豬場，還是到掩埋場做堆肥處理，這個你都要去追蹤、了解，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會透過環境部來了解。"],["呂委員玉玲：你們目前沒辦法確定它是非洲豬瘟，還在做病毒的分析嘛。"],["陳部長駿季：我想……"],["呂委員玉玲：儘快！你大概什麼時候會確定公布？"],["陳部長駿季：應該確認是非洲豬瘟，但是因為根據WOAH的規範，一定要做病毒的分類。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，最快什麼時候？"],["陳部長駿季：不過以現在掌握的證據，應該就是非洲豬瘟，但是因為通報的關係，我們現在還要……"],["呂委員玉玲：還要再明確確定，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，應該明確確定下來。","現在本席想請教的就是，既然發生了，第一個，要看防檢的部分，境外的是如何跑進來，這個一定要再做一個防堵措施。再來的話就是廚餘，我想請問部長，廚餘為什麼當時我們討論的時候，沒有全面禁用？你有什麼考量？是什麼問題？"],["陳部長駿季：不同的時代，可能有不同的考量，當初有非常多的小場，然後有非常多的廚餘養豬戶……"],["呂委員玉玲：小場199頭都是餵飼料啊！"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們那時候一個非常重要的策略，不是說沒有禁止，然後就不管它，我們在沒有禁止之下，強化廚餘本身蒸煮的監管，然後小場因為沒有能力自己蒸煮，所以規模在200頭以下的不准用廚餘飼養，一定要200頭以上的才行。這個部分就是比較強而有力的監管，讓廚餘變成一個安全的飼料，而不是像外界說的，沒有這樣子的政策，就不管它，我們還是有強力的監管。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你還在討論？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：你說時代不一樣，經過7年強力的加強嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：現在7年也沒有什麼時代不一樣了啦，可是已經發生啦！你現在全面禁用廚餘，是暫時性還是永久性？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是為了做疫調，怕疫情擴散，因此用禁止廚餘餵養做一個斷點，包括豬隻禁運也是一個斷點，這兩個作為都是為了做疫調。等疫調告一段落以後，我們就會做後續的處理，特別是潛伏期的15天是一定不能移動的、不能餵養廚餘，但是這個部分，我們以5天為觀察的週期。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以現在是暫時性的？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：疫調完畢，你會盤整整個狀況？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會盤整整個後續的……"],["呂委員玉玲：看還可不可以用廚餘，是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們一定是先去做廚餘的加強監管，就算不要做廚餘餵養，也一定有足夠的緩衝期，絕對不會今天說了明天就停止，這次是因為疫情的關係。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，部長，廚餘的部分跟環保局比較有關，但是關聯的又是我們養豬戶，所以你在橫向跟環保局要做好溝通，廚餘所有的源頭、來源，輸送到哪裡，供應到哪裡，以及處理的最終辦法，這些你們要互相溝通、處理，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們跟環境部一直有溝通。"],["呂委員玉玲：你們都息息相關，這個一定要去追蹤處理。"],["陳部長駿季：最重要是跟我們的產業溝通啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：對。"],["陳部長駿季：像您桃園那邊也是非常重要的……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們桃園沒有化製場耶！全臺灣有9個化製場嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：桃園本身用廚餘的也不少，排名在第三啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：對，我知道，所以我跟部長提醒，桃園沒有化製場！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：你知道我們怎麼處理嗎？去跟養豬協會談，請他們用車輛、人力載去雲林處理，我們每年要花多少錢你知道嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，全臺灣有9個化製場……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，我知道啊！"],["陳部長駿季：9個化製場在5個縣市而已。"],["呂委員玉玲：桃園沒有啊！"],["陳部長駿季：所以不同的地方可以互相支援。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，這個也是你未來要檢討的最重要因素，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會加強單一廠內用生物處理機來處理，這樣也就是減少運送……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以部長，本席在這邊要求，你要立即查明感染的源頭，全面檢討邊境的檢疫跟廚餘養豬的制度，針對受損的養豬戶，我們要啟動專案補償機制，守住我們臺灣的養豬產業，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們朝這個目標來努力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請謝衣鳯委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-7","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","張啓楷","邱志偉","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","黃捷","徐欣瑩","陳超明","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長及財政部關務署首長就「非洲豬瘟防檢疫後續防疫精進作為」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}